Divorce with Carolyn

Finding a softer kind of joy with Charu Moorjani

• Season 1 • Episode 20

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0:00 | 34:30

Charu Moorjani had everything she thought she was supposed to want. Married at 23, on the right life path, ticking all the boxes in the right order. But on day one of her honeymoon, her body gave her a message she couldn't ignore — she was admitted to ICU in Macau with Guillain-Barré syndrome, a life-threatening immune system disorder that left her on a ventilator for a month.

She went on to stay in the marriage for four more years. Until she couldn't.

In this episode, Charu shares about what it means to stop outsourcing your happiness, the difference between a scripted life and a lived one, and what she now calls "a softer kind of joy." We also get into self-trust, boundaries as a happiness practice, and why your body might know what your mind isn't ready to admit yet.

This one is for any woman who has ever built a life for an audience — and is starting to wonder what it might look like if she built it just for her instead.

In this episode:

  • The "scripted life" – and why ticking boxes doesn't deliver happiness
  • What Guillain-Barré syndrome on her honeymoon taught Charu about control, stillness and what actually matters
  • Cultural and family pressure to conform – and how it silenced her
  • What the early days of separation actually looked like, and why small routines saved her
  • The confidence that came immediately after leaving – and why it surprised her
  • A softer kind of joy – what it means and where happiness actually lives
  • Boundaries as a happiness practice, not just self-protection
  • Practising "no" in the mirror – and why it works
  • Gratitude as a daily doorway to joy
  • Values alignment – and why Carolyn gets every WDA member to do a values exercise first

Resources mentioned:

Connect with Charu: https://www.instagram.com/thehappinesspathway/

Connect with Carolyn:
Instagram @womensdivorceacademy | womensdivorceacademy.com

Send Carolyn a text

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SPEAKER_00

Charry, thank you very much for joining us today and sharing your story with us. Let's jump into when you first got married. You were 23, is that right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. I was 23 years old.

SPEAKER_00

And what did you expect marriage was going to be like at that point?

SPEAKER_01

To be honest, I felt I had everything figured out. You know, I had a I was living like a scripted life path where, you know, people associate with having success and happiness after you, you know, achieve certain things in life. So I genuinely believed that, you know, if I worked hard enough, I achieved enough, found the right partner on paper, got married at the right time, built the right life, happiness would arrive as a reward. And I was on track for it. And looking back now, I feel I was just outsourcing my happiness. And I was living in a constant state of, you know, I will be happy when I achieve this or I do this or if I get married, and then next thing comes on. So I didn't really realize that, you know, it wasn't something that I would achieve after a finish line. It was something I had to live.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think I can relate to that. There was a there's the the check boxes that you tick to have this life that looks like it's supposed to look right. I was always trying to make my life look like a margarine commercial. I always thought margarine commercials had these families that really had it worked out.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. And I think it's the it's what you see on TV, in movies, on social media that influences that as well. Like for someone like me who didn't even know who I was, that was the perfect idea of a life. So that's what I wanted to achieve because that's what you see online in commercials and movies.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And there was also because your family is Indian, and so was there that cultural kind of pressure to conform to that as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think it there's there's this unsaid thing that you know you learn as girls that um you need to get married at the right time, you need to have kids at the right time. Everything has a time and you need to achieve all those things to to live a good life. So I think it's something that's unsaid. And not just in Indian culture, I would feel, I feel it's like that everywhere. Like, oh, if you don't get pregnant by this age, you you you won't have kids, or if you don't get married by this age, your pool of guys will reduce. So I think it's it's it's it's very similar and it's just general society that teaches you that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know. I think, you know, both of us I think repartned around the same time about nine or ten years ago. And I remember somebody telling me that looking for a partner after your divorce is like op shopping, you know, you really have to sift through. But now your body seemed to know something well before you did because you got married in India, you went on your honeymoon. Tell us about your honeymoon.

SPEAKER_01

Um well, I think that was when my body really forced me to stop. And it was like I was ignoring so many signs for myself. And I feel I feel sometimes your body gives you signs by telling you you're doing something wrong. For that moment, like I was on my honeymoon in Macau and I was diagnosed with Gillian Barry syndrome, which is an immune system disorder where your body gets paralyzed, it hits your lungs, and then your brain. So I was in ICU on a mechanical ventilator for a month. And but for the first time, uh, when I was in the hospital after I woke up after a couple of days of being on life-saving drugs, I felt that, you know, I could finally just calm down. I didn't have any plans or goals. I didn't have to pretend to be anything. I just have to get through the day and survive. That was the only thing I had to do. And what it taught me was how little control we have in our lives. Like we spend so much of our lives believing that, you know, we can plan everything and we can have a life with all your plans and take all your boxes, and everything will be good. But life has a way of reminding us that that's all an illusion. Anything can change. And that experience really planted that seed in me that would grow much later on through my life journey that happiness can't really be built on perfect circumstances because circumstances can change in an instant.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, so true. And I mean, it was your it was day one, wasn't it, of your honeymoon that you this actually happened, which is very dramatic. Um, your body clearly really was telling you something. So it's a life and death situation, everything else is stripped away, right? And you really get to just sit with yourself and and about where you are and what you've got. But how long were you married for? Because obviously you didn't just wake up and go, oh, this isn't right for me.

SPEAKER_01

Um well, I was married for about four years. So um it the when I went through this marriage, when I told my parents about it, they weren't really supportive. They my parents were, I would say, a very nuclear, modern family for Indian standards. And uh my ex came from a very traditional Indian family. So my parents had said, you know, this is not something that you will that will work for you. We know you quite well. Uh you will struggle with this family. And I was just like, you know what, I don't really care. I live in Australia, I should be fine. I didn't realize that, you know, when you get married in India, you get married to the family as well. That was a concept I didn't understand. So I think I I did stay in that marriage for four years uh because I it was more like a thing that I fought so hard with my parents to, you know, prove that this this is the right thing for me. So it was more of like, I have to prove them wrong. I can't let them be right. So it was more like I have to stay in this marriage, keep things working. You also feel like, you know, you don't really you keep doubting yourself when things like that come up that, you know, am I making this up or is it is it is it really happening? Is it real? Is marriages supposed to be like that? And I was so young, I just didn't know what I really want in life. So yeah, I I just went with it for at least three to four years. I think towards the last year was where all the all the things started to come to shape in my head that this is not what I want, this is not the life that I want.

SPEAKER_00

Especially when you're so young as well. I think that uh you you don't know what you don't know. And so you're sort of stuck in this situation of like, is this what marriage looks like? Is it do I just need to speak it out? I remember talking to my mother when I was, I I've actually been married twice. My first marriage, I was 20 uh and divorced when I was 22. And I was on the phone to my, I was living in London and I was on the phone to my mother and I was saying, I I'm just really unhappy in this marriage. And she said, Look around you, look at all the other people that you know, do they all look happy? And I said, Yeah, they do. And she said, Have you thought that maybe they're all faking it too?

SPEAKER_01

And I think again, it's that that you hear things like that and you're like, oh, maybe I'm just being dramatic.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Like, do I just need to suck it up now? Is this what marriage? Because you know, everyone talks about marriage, it's compromise, and you think, well, I'm compromise. But clearly, thank goodness, you reached a point where you went, This is not for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How did those early days look after that separation? And where did you find your support?

SPEAKER_01

Look, I didn't have a lot of family here, so my family's based in India. My mom flew in for a little bit just to help me move out of the house. But then I was on my own. And honestly, I just had to take it one day at a time. There were days where I felt very strong and hopeful, and there were days where I felt completely lost, constantly questioning myself if I've done the right thing. I I did rely on some friends and community that I had built, but I didn't have a lot of those either because a lot of my friends were common friends. So there were very few friends that I had left from that pool of friends that were common friends, uh, and I didn't really want to put anyone into a situation where they had to pick. So I distanced myself from a lot of people. But I think keeping small routines was what really helped me. It wasn't in a straight line healing, it was more zigzag, coming back, going down again. But when I I realized when I stuck to a routine, like doing things like going for little walks in the morning on my own, doing a little bit of like 10-minute breathing when I felt that I was really overwhelmed. And that was something that really helped me get through those those days. And what I discovered was that resilience isn't about never struggling, it's about continuing to take little steps, even when you don't know exactly where you're going.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. Yeah, that's that's so true. And I love that you you found some sort of respite in routine. I love routine, routine is a wonderful thing. I think I I I decided to meditate every day for a year that when I separated, I thought this is the year I'm gonna learn to meditate properly, and I really did, and I still do it now. But but I think having those little things that you do is so important. And was work something that you focused on as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, look, I I was working a lot at that time, and I think that's the time where my career started soaring as well. So it was going really well because I was giving it a lot of time. I had this newly found confidence that I had got after separating, that you know, I can do anything. So I wasn't scared to, you know, voice my opinion outside as well. I did throw myself into massive social life. So made a lot of new friends, went out, socialized with people, met new people. But after a point, I realized that, you know, that's not really helping me being busy. It's spending time with myself and trying to work through what's happened and what life and what values I have in life. That's what really helped me get through and heal myself.

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting that you just said something that I want to ask a little bit more about, which is that you you you found your confidence and your voice. And often it takes women a long time to get there, but it sounds like the actual leaving was the bit you needed to do in order to find those things. So did that happen quite quickly?

SPEAKER_01

I would say very quickly. I think once I got through this hurdle of getting out of the relationship, I think that was one of the biggest things for me because I was really scared that, you know, this is permanent, I will be alone forever. Um, also, there's a stigma of, you know, being divorced, especially coming from the Indian culture that I come from. That was still quite, I mean, it's common, but it's still quite big. It's the divorced woman everyone wants to talk about. All my friends were either in a relationship or thinking about getting married. So I I would have been the odd one out. So I there were a lot of questions I had, but once I took that step, I feel I had like a newly found confidence that if I can do this, I can do anything else.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. I wish you could just bottle that and give that out. The day that a woman leaves a relationship, just like take this. It's so wonderful. As I said, it often takes women a long time to find that. So I love that you found that early. And how did you find, you know, you said you made a lot of new friends. How did you build that social network?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I joined groups, like social groups to meet people. I met people through people. I did say yes to a lot of things that I couldn't do when I was in a relationship. You know, sometimes when you're in a relationship where you try and like cover for your partner as well and they're not comfortable doing certain things, you don't do those. But if when I was single, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna say yes to everything. I'm gonna try different things and see what I really like, as opposed to was that something that was an opinion I had taken from someone else. So I was quite open to getting new experiences and trying new things to figure out who I am.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And and where did that, where do you think that that inner confidence comes from that you had even in those stages that you that you had to to leave in the first place and then to put yourself out there and to just really know that you were doing the right thing?

SPEAKER_01

To be honest, it wasn't like an inner confidence. It was just like for me, I was trying to figure out myself. Um, because I had lived my life firstly, shadowed by my family, and then getting into this marriage where I was uh shadowed by my ex. And I just didn't know who I was. So I wanted to discover myself as well, what I like, what my values are. So I started saying yes to a lot of things, and there were things that I didn't like eventually, and then I moved out of it, moved, took a step back. But I think it was essential for me to try different things, meet new people, get new experiences to try and understand who I was outside of that relationship.

SPEAKER_00

So, more a curiosity of who am I without all of this around me. That's really interesting. Now, of course, you've got on to write a wonderful book called The Happiness Pathway with the subtitle When Life Unravels, weave yourself a softer kind of joy, which I think is so lovely. It sounds like a blanket I just want to wrap myself in. And that softer kind of joy really struck me. Where did that come from? And what do you mean by it?

SPEAKER_01

Um, that's really the heart of the book, like softer kind of joy. And I feel for a long time I thought happiness was something I had to achieve. You know, the right job, the perfect relationship, success, milestones, the right life on paper, basically. And today, now that I've worked on my healing journey for for myself, it looks much quieter. For me, it's like in the morning going, having a coffee without any distractions before I get into my day. Um, going for a walk with my dog at the beach, having a conversation with someone I love who understands me, I can be myself with, having good health, uh, having time with family, and just having just time with myself as well for some moments of stillness and just having some calm time with myself. I really love my alone time. So I think that brings me back to myself. And I believe a softer kind of joy is where happiness lives in. It's in the ordinary moments, and it's less less about proving to anyone else or achieving something. It's more about being present enough to notice what's already there in your life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I read something recently that that said chasing happiness can feel really futile, but actually what we should be chasing is contentedness, which sounds very similar to what you're saying. It's that finding those lovely moments. And when happiness finds you, you'll have happiness, but chasing contentedness is about all we can do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think I talk about be living your life in alignment. So, you know, just little things like making sure if you're saying yes to something, you really want to do it, and not because you feel pressure for someone. So having the right boundaries, also trusting yourself enough to make decisions in your life, trusting your gut to taking actions in your life. So it's more about like living in alignment with yourself rather than you know running after happiness. And once you're living your life in that alignment state, you're being your authentic self. That's where happiness truly lives in those present moments we're living.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's beautiful. And I think you can't really learn to trust your gut until, as you say, you learn to be able to sit with yourself and not distract yourself with scrolling or TV or you know, whatever it is that you're doing. Just being able to sit still and actually listen, because otherwise you have no idea what your gut's telling you, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And uh and that's when you end up in hospital with uh, you know, life life-threatening illness and immune system disorders, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And and I read a bit about somewhere, I read an article where they were talking about women usually get a lot of immune system disorders when you're betraying yourself, and it's all linked together with your nervous system. So that I can't remember where I read the article, but it was really interesting when I read that and it brought my story back to me that you know I was really betraying myself because I did have that sinking feeling inside when I was going through the wedding that something's wrong, but I was too far off into the events when I started realizing that. So I didn't I didn't really know what to do. I couldn't step back from it.

SPEAKER_00

No, of course. And I mean, hindsight's a wonderful thing, right? It's very easy to see that now. But at the time, there's so much going on. Now I wanted to get, I know you mentioned boundaries there, but what I love about your book too is that you mentioned boundaries as a happiness practice, which I think is wonderful because I think we all think of it as a protective measure and it's important to have boundaries, but you're actually talking about it as, you know, a form of self-respect and self-love. And maybe that's uh a way of thinking about it that a lot of people haven't thought before. Where did that understanding come from for you?

SPEAKER_01

I think I grew up as like the eldest daughter or so, you know, always praised for being compliant, that good girl syndrome that you develop. So growing up, I started living my life focusing on keeping the peace, meeting others' expectations, making everyone else comfortable. That I felt I lost connection with my own needs. I was saying yes when I wanted to say no just to please people. I was ignoring my gut feeling, my intuition. I kept overextending myself emotionally in every relationship, not just in my marriage. And I think the emotional impact of that was I was constantly exhausted. I had resentment in me towards others. But I was also like sad because I knew that I was abandoning myself in order to keep everyone else happy. So once I started learning about boundaries, that really changed my life because I realized boundaries are not shutting people out, they're about protecting your peace, your well-being, your sense of self. They create an emotional safety net for you. And they're essentially acts of self-love and self-respect.

SPEAKER_00

If somebody's listening to this and they're going, okay, that sounds great, but uh so many of us have been people pleasers and and I'm a reformed people pleaser myself. I'm very much reformed though, how do you learn to start doing that? How do you learn to, after you've actually tapped into yourself and your gut and you're sitting with yourself and you go, actually, that thing isn't aligned for me. If you've been a people pleaser your whole life, how do you start doing that?

SPEAKER_01

So I actually have a chapter about this in the book where I talk about having some set lines like, oh, it doesn't work for me right now, but I would love to join in next time. And I used to practice in front of the mirror. I was such a people pleaser that I had to practice certain lines in front of the mirror to say it to someone because I used to have like heart palpitations before I went into like a catch up where I had to say no. But I knew that you know I have to communicate just to stand up for myself, to create start creating that self-trust within myself because I had abandoned myself so much that I didn't trust myself anymore. So just these small little acts of just saying no to something, you're just like, I don't want to go to this event, but I just feel I have to just learn a line, write it down, practice it, and then say it. It's the easiest way. And someone said to me, fake it till you make it. It was a work advice long time ago. But it works in this as well. You just start learning and just repeating that line, and you will learn to self-trust yourself eventually, once once you get through it. So yeah, I think that's what I did, and I would advise everyone to, you know, if you feel that there's something you don't want to do or something you're not comfortable with, but you're not sure how to communicate it, write it down, look, look in the mirror, practice at least 10 times, and then just say it. Just go for it, say it. Run away after that if you have to. But you will start creating self-trust in yourself then.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. The idea that you you can practice in the mirror. I think that's such a I mean, you might be scared that your reflection is going to like get really mad at you, but they're not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00

If they are, then you've got more things to talk about. But but I think, you know, it's it's as silly as it can sound to do that, I think it's just having those words come out of your mouth and not and nothing bad happens. Yeah, it can start to, and you know, as well, I think, you know, saying no when stakes are low, saying no to little things, as you said, like, no, I don't want to go on that thing. You know, I actually sent I had a I was supposed to go to a birthday party on the weekend and I gave up drinking last December. I don't drink alcohol and I I knew it was going to be a big drinking crowd, and I didn't I only I didn't I uh the the birthday person was somewhere that I haven't known very long, didn't know the people, and I just I was not feeling very robust that day. And I sent her a message, which normally I would have just either gone anyway or made something up, which of course then makes them think they're not very valuable. And I just sent her a message and I said, Look, my anxiety is really high today, and I don't think I can do it. Can I take you for a coffee next week? And she was so nice about it. And I think sometimes just being honest too and going, what, like that's a lot for me right now. I don't want to do that. Sometimes, you know, people can people can really have a lot of empathy in that situation. And I get it, thank you for being honest, and it opens this new level as well.

SPEAKER_01

Most of the time, people people really like if you're being honest with them, it's the people who are not heals themselves that are not. So you will always feel face those people as well. But that's why it's important, and that's why I think for me, practicing those lines in front of the mirror really helped me because I ha I knew that I had to just say that and I'm done. I'm not saying anything else. I'm just saying I'm just busy right now, I cannot do this. Uh if someone keep saying I'll just repeat that and that's it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I think you can also just, you know, you dip the you dip your toe in with people as far as how far you can trust them with information too. You know, if if you give them a little bit and they take that well, then you can be re start to be in person with them and build that that intimacy with them where you can be really open. But obviously, yeah, you don't go in on day one and you know share everything. But but I like that. I think it's really important. And you know, as they say too, you know, if you're at least if you're doing what you want to do, one person's happy with you. The person that you have to live with.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's the most important person yourself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. Because especially you know as people pleasers we all know that it it might get you some peace in the short term, but in the long term you end up doing things you don't want to do and you're like really feeling not connected with yourself and it can lead to all sorts of things. And I think it's anyone who's coming out of a a marriage who has been a people pleaser obviously knows it doesn't make the marriage work.

SPEAKER_01

It doesn't make anything work. And if you're not happy yourself you will never make anyone else happy. That's what I believe in.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So how did you come to write the book in the first place? I honestly I didn't really set out to write a book.

SPEAKER_01

I I was going through my mindset coaching journey. I was looking at working on designing a course for my clients and then I found my old journals so um all these journals that I had written to just make sense of my own life while I was going through you know a divorce or just going through a bad time, time of grief. And I thought instead of working on a workshop style course, why don't I combine it with some real life stories and what has really helped me because I remember feeling really alone in most of these times where I felt like I couldn't really talk to anyone and I didn't really have a way of knowing what I was doing was right or not. And I just wanted to share the tools that have helped me in my life and have that first step within the book for people to take that first step. So there's practical exercises in the book where the readers can take the first step in their own life journey because sometimes just reading about something inspirational is not enough. It's what you do with that information. So I wanted to have that space for the readers to go into their own journey as well and to find their own version of happiness.

SPEAKER_00

If there's a woman listening at the moment who is thinking this sound all sounds great, you know, this this this idea of finding your happiness what could they do this week that would help them to to start to feel a little bit better I would say start small.

SPEAKER_01

You don't really have to wait for you know the perfect relationship or the perfect body or the perfect career to feel happy you can find it today in little things that bring you joy you could try and start connecting with yourself and see what makes you happy and start small start by going for a little walk somewhere or spending some time with your dog or with your kids without any distractions. It's a practice it's how you live your life and you just bring in these small little steps in your life and you will see your life change very easily you don't have to take a big long leap to get happy um so yeah it's it's available to you today. You just have to start noticing it and you just have to start noticing little things and one of the biggest things that I come back to is gratitude practice is three things that brought me joy today. And you know once you start writing that that three things becomes like hundreds of things that bring you joy in your life and you realize how much joy you have and you attract more joy by counting your joy, by noticing your joy daily. So I would say if you can bring in one practice, it would be gratitude.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah I love that I think uh I I have a gratitude journal that I write in just before I go to sleep every night I lie in bed and I write in it.

SPEAKER_01

And I go through phases of sometimes I go I try to write a lot of things and sometimes I try to write just a couple of things but then also like journal on why I'm grateful for it and what difference it made in my life and some yeah it just depends on the mood I'm in and I'm sure there's there's benefits to both but but it's been a practice that has definitely it just shifts your whole perspective doesn't it does yeah and you know I'm not saying that you know you're you'll always be happy you won't have difficult periods in your life but when you go through practices like this you can always go back and look through how much happiness and how much joy you already have in your life and when you're down or going through a difficult period that really helps you bring your mood up and and then get you back on track in terms of what really matters in your life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah and you know as you say you can have you can be having the worst day but there's always something good to notice. That doesn't mean that everything else isn't difficult. It just means there's there's both going on at the same time and that's really important. Your marriage ended how long ago about 12 years ago now. And you've been now in a relationship for nine years is that right about eight and a half yeah almost like what difference has it made you know from taking that time to find yourself in between and then having this new relationship how different is it and what do you think you did differently to be honest it's it's not about the relationship.

SPEAKER_01

I feel that because I have gone through this journey on working on myself I feel that I have worked on myself I know how to communicate better now. I knew how to have better boundaries in my life I know what my values are now and I think that has made a difference in my relationship now how I go into not just romantic relationships all other relationships in my life so my even my friendships have evolved over time some have fallen off some have evolved new friendships have come in because I value myself now I know what my values are I know how to communicate those I know how to communicate my boundaries and I don't ignore my gut anymore. So that's the difference in my relationship now versus before.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah that's really interesting because in Women's Divorce Academy one of the first activities I get people to do is a values exercise to figure out what their values are. That's so important yeah and I know a lot of people just kind of go oh I just skip past it I just want to get to the you know how do I how do I do property settlement or how do I you know whatever but actually knowing what your values are taking the time and also revising them on a regular basis because they do evolve with us knowing what your values are means that everything you're doing is in alignment with that and that's so important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so I imagine then in this relationship you really I mean your first relationship is with yourself right yeah that's and I think that's what it is if if I have a good relationship with myself if I respect myself enough trust myself enough I think all relationships evolve eventually to become what what you need in your life and respectful as well. So I think again I because I respect myself enough you can build a respectful relationship and have mutual trust. Even if you don't like the other person's perspective you still know how to communicate better.

SPEAKER_00

Do you think you could have learned all of this if you hadn't been through that first marriage no not at all for sure I think I am who I am because of what I went through.

SPEAKER_01

I learned a lot I learned a lot about myself as well because I I I did grow up in a very protective family where I didn't have a lot of exposure to a lot of things and going through an illness divorce it made me more resilient but it also showed me how strong I am and who I am as a person. So I came out working on myself identifying again values understanding how I want to live my life so I don't think if I had not gone through this I would have been the same person I am right now. And what does the future hold um future is more living the values in my book exactly living a more softer life just doing things that are in alignment with me. So just working my way through whatever universe brings in but just living in alignment with myself more peaceful quieter life that's why I'm by the beach so I love going to the beach every day doing my quiet walks without a phone with my dog that's it so I think just having peaceful starts to the day even though your life can be chaotic sometimes giving yourself that time to be happy in simple moments finding happiness and small little things in life living a softer life sounds so beautiful.

SPEAKER_00

I think you articulate it so wonderfully Charu thank you for joining us today I will share where I can find you and also a link to your book in our show notes. Thank you thank you so much for having me. It was really lovely chatting to you.