Can you really build your business while getting divorced? With Karen Dennett

Starting or rebuilding a business while your marriage is ending sounds like the worst possible timing – but for business mentor Karen Dennett, it was exactly when things started looking up. 

In this conversation, Karen and Carolyn talk about what it actually takes to build something of your own when you’re low on money, energy and self-belief. You’ll walk away knowing how to work out the lifestyle you want and cost it honestly, how to bootstrap lean without a fancy website, why passive income is possible but never as easy as Instagram promises, and how to keep going on the flat days. 

Most of all, you’ll hear why the right business friendships – women who get it and genuinely have your back – can make a massive difference.

Key takeaways

• Start with the life you want, then build the business to fit it – not the other way around. Cost your real lifestyle, then check it against your capacity and pricing.
• You can bootstrap from the ground up. A social media page and a simple way to book can be enough to begin – you don’t need the full bells-and-whistles website.
• Passive income is possible but not easy. It needs an audience who know, like and trust you – the content is the small part.
• If you need to take a job to pay the bills, take it. Financial safety helps you make better business decisions and calms the panic.
• Pausing is not quitting. You’re allowed to pause, pivot and try something different.
• Find business friends, not just networking contacts – women who understand both the work and the season you’re in.
• So many women underprice and over-deliver because they don’t yet see their own value. Naming your impact changes that.

Links and resources

Karen Dennett: https://www.karendennett.com/

Before You Agree to Anything – the financial toolkit for property settlement: https://stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/know-before-you-sign

The Separated Mother's Toolkit: https://stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/separated-mothers-toolkit/

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Learn more about our membership and divorce support: womensdivorceacademy.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

During the last year of my marriage, I was also trying to build a business as well as raising three small children. And my husband said to me, If this business doesn't start getting profitable by Christmas, you're going to have to give it up and get a job. And so come New Year's, I asked for a divorce because I chose the business instead of the husband. So I was really excited to have Karen Dennett on today. Karen is a business coach and mentor. She creates these beautiful groups that not only help women to build their businesses, but also to build their networks and their support. Karen also built a business when she was going through divorce, and she's here to share all of her tips on how to build a sustainable business while you're also juggling all of the demands of what you have to do right now. She has a lot of wisdom to share as well as a lot of kindness. I'm really excited to share this with you today. Let's get started. I'm Carolyn Tate, founder of Women's Divorce Academy, and your guide to turning your divorce into the best thing that ever happened to you. This is Divorce with Carolyn. Karen, thanks for joining us today. Now I know that you you help women who have small businesses. Can you tell us a little bit about how you how you help women and the sort of problems that you see, especially around separation and divorce time, which is obviously a high stress time?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

The way I help women, so I tend to help women with business mentoring. I also help them with my online business practice. So essentially the learning that I provide is about making continuous improvement. And it's based on a philosophy called Kaizen. And it brings together every 52 sessions, where each week is a small session of working on a certain aspect of your business, creating those small wins and developing that continuous improvement through your business in those really key areas of branding, customer experience, your revenue and growth. So forming connections and collaborations, and then your mindset. So the mindset section is a really important section for women who I've personally been through it myself. When you're going through that self-doubt, and potentially you've been in a situation where you've been run down, made to feel that you're not good enough, not doing enough. And it's the entrepreneurial mindset section is all about stepping into your power, becoming independent, um, recognizing your value, understanding what your value is in terms of what you give to people, and just really identifying what it is that you have in terms of your capacity right now, and how you can use that capacity to gain an income, but also make progress in your business. And I think that's where when you are going through a divorce and you have been through those situations potentially, there's a lot of self-doubt. There's also a lot of that belief that you're not good enough, and you're rebuilding yourself whilst you're essentially building your business, and that's where the mentoring, the friendship community, and also the small steady progress makes a difference.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yeah, I think those small steps are so important, and as you say, the community. I know it can be such a lonely time. And at the end of my marriage, my ex-husband actually said to me, you know, your business needs to be successful by Christmas, or else you need to just stop it. So instead I just um asked for a divorce at Christmas. I chose the business instead of the husband. Yeah, I did blame you. And I think you started this business when you were going through your separation too. And so, you know, I it was a real white knuckle kind of situation for me in that suddenly I was on my own with the children, no financial support from my ex. And so it was just I had to make it work, and there was that panic and that, you know, real need to make it work quickly. And I know that you talk about taking things steadily and not getting overwhelmed. How do you help women in that situation to, well, first of all, if someone's going through separation, do you what is it a good time to start a business? And if so, how do you do that in a steady way? Because I know a lot of women I talk to in Women's Divorce Academy are, you know, perhaps working for the first time or they need to pivot because they've been looking after kids and suddenly they're they need to make money. Um, and so this is a really long question, but I just need to add in for me as well, I couldn't work full-time because I had young children, I had children with pretty high needs at the time, so I could and I was always getting called somewhere, had appointments and all sorts of things. If you are starting something, what's a a way to keep things healthy and in balance?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Okay, so I've um always been essentially, I would say, on my own anyway. My um my ex was working for uh FIFO, so he would be for seven years, he was away for 10 weeks at a time and back for three. Um, and then I was a t full-time teacher, and I came out of teaching in 2000 and around 2018 to continue working on my education business whilst he was FIFO. And then, you know, there were different things that happened. I went back into teaching a little bit, continued growing my business, but I closed that in May 2023 and started um focusing on supporting women because I was doing that anyway, a lot with where with friends and people that would ask me for advice. And I'm I'm a business and enterprise and management teacher anyway, and I was doing a lot of youth enterprise work, so I was helping other other women as well, and um, so I decided to focus because having been a woman who whose partner was very, very rarely there, um I and having the children and balancing everything, I'd been a micro business and I'd understood the challenges, and also no one really teaches you those subtle little nuances that you don't learn about business until you're actually in it. You know, you learn the basics, the skeleton, the structure, the ABM, the insurance, and the oh yes, you need marketing. And I understood marketing, I've got a marketing degree, and I get I get all of that, but no one tells you the little things about building relationships and how you know create connection meaningfully and the trust, the credibility, and the funnel and the you know, the collaborations and the referral networks, and how do you actually grow meaningfully? For me, when I then became separated and and we decided to separate, it was exactly around that time that I was starting to build the business, and I already I was quite fortunate through my education company, I already had some connections already, and I'd built up my connections through um that that company. So naturally I had people I could go to in terms of running some programs and getting the ball rolling. Spent although I say I started the business, I actually spent the first six months of it creating the materials, creating the the um the concept, building the website, building the kajabi, the learning platform and everything else around it. So it's not I've actually been doing it as a slow burn as I've been doing other things. And luckily, because I did have those contacts, I could go straight in and do some of the training straight away and get some paid work, which is fantastic. When we officially moved out, because we were separated under the same roof for quite a while. There were a few challenges with discussions around finances, as there always are. You think you're gonna avoid it, but no. And there was a moment where um potentially I would not see any of the equity from the home, and we had three weeks to be out of the house, and I had no other choice and returned to teaching full-time. And I think that happens with a lot of um, you know, I think that happens to a lot of women when we go through separation and divorce, you know, is we we don't always have the privil, like the not the privilege, it's an absolute right. We should have that money, but I didn't ever have any I've never had any financial support from my ex and no contribution whatsoever. And so it's all been on me. And so, you know, there was absolutely no I I I could not not work. And it's not that you can't do a business and work, you absolutely can, but it's about I think if you choose to do a business at this time, I think it's absolutely you can and it's fine, you can do it, but I think you need to be surrounded by really good people who get business and can support you and who are also friendly, they're not just trying to take your money from you, they're actually people that genuinely want to help you and they get business, and that's why friendship communities, friendship business communities are great. But I also think it's really important that you spend some time looking at what do you actually have in terms of capacity? So, like me, I went back to work, I had to re-pivot and adjust my business model and the way that I was doing things. You need to look at what capacity you have, what um, what resources you have. It's it's 100% possible to bootstrap a business from the ground up. There are ways to do it that don't require trying to get investment or funding from other people. There are clever ways of looking at your business model and how you gain the revenue so that you can build that up as you go. You absolutely don't need a full bells and whistles website to get started. You can get started with a social media page and a simple way to book or to have a platform. But it's about finding those people that know those little tricks and those shortcuts and the ways to build your mo your business model in an effective way. And you just operate lean in a way that you show your value but get the maximum value back in terms of money back, and you manage your time effectively so that you get balance and that you can live your life, but also use your business to help you.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

I know for me, I obviously I had a business before, but I was running it two days a week, and then suddenly I was, you know, running, I was working all hours of the day, and I ended up getting a I decided to, as a freelancer rather than, you know, which is a little bit different from obviously other product type businesses, but I would just take any work that came in, and then as I could find other jobs that paid better, I would replace the lower paying ones with the higher paying ones and you know, tried to build it that way. And for quite a while I was I was working on a new news desk doing the morning news from 4 a.m. until 8 a.m. And then I would take the kids to school and come back and work. And now the idea of getting up at 4 a.m. is hideous to me. Um, but at the time it was regular work and I just did what I had to do. And I think sometimes you kind of have to be a little bit creative and in your approach and you have to say yes to things that maybe otherwise you wouldn't have. But it's all a means to an end to get where you want to go. And as you find those opportunities, the better opportunities, and or as you build your business and drop off those other things, whether it's part-time work in a local cafe or whether taking on ironing or whatever you have to do to get by while you're building as well. I think it's important to be flexible. But how do you I know you work a lot with women around you know finding that balance, which is really tricky because I know I did not find that balance. I was working all of the time and I was stressed all of the time. How do you do it in a way that's sustainable and that makes you a nice mum at the end of the day?

SPEAKER_00 12:03

That's that mum guilt is is one of the biggest things that we stress about, isn't it? I know I did. And um I once read a quote that said, you know, being one is expected to parent like you don't work and work like you don't parent. And it's so true. Um I just feel that first of all, you've got to be able to get money in. Like when you mentioned about working and taking anything, absolutely agree with that, you know, because if you're not paying the bills, you're not gonna make good business decisions anyway, and you're just gonna get stressed. And, you know, we've all had those moments where we've been awake at three o'clock in the morning, and you know, our son or our daughter needs new trainers and or something new for school, and trying to just buy food and you're trying to get fuel and you're trying to survive, and you're you're stressing about being able to pay rent and mortgages, and you're taking I remember having about six to seven jobs at one point, you know, just to make sure I could pay for everything. I'd lots of different projects on the go. And you do take stuff that you probably wouldn't necessarily take, but knowing that those bills are paid so that you can like breathe is is probably one of the most important things. You're not gonna have a successful business if that isn't. So um I agree with everything that you said about you know getting that money in and just making sure you get by. When it comes to looking at how you can do things in a sustainable way, for me it's about so I've I've got an activity in the mindset section, which is all around building your lifestyle business, and it's about looking at what value you bring, but also starting off with what does what kind of lifestyle do you actually want? And that doesn't have to be one of these, you know, I earn seven figures and I'm by the pool in my bikini, and that's great for some people if that's what they want. The um I think the um you choose what what it is that you want to do. So you identify what does it look like for fun? Do I want to be able to have um, you know, a a holiday? Do I want to be able to have a few weekends away with the girls if I can get away? What things do I want in my home? What type of home do I want? What do I want to do for in terms of availability? Do I want to be around for my kids? Do I want to like have a certain number of hours a day where I'm available for my, you know, do I want to be able to make assemblies and special events at school? Do I want to be able to be there on the sidelines on a Saturday morning for my children? So identify two things. So what what kind of lifestyle do I want? Then you work out the cost of that lifestyle. So, how much is it actually realistically going to cost me to set that up and to maintain that lifestyle? And then once you know how much money you need to make for yourself, then it's very easy to then say, what do I what do I need then in terms of my capacity? How much capacity have I got? What is my current business model? So what am I sh what am I essentially selling and providing to people? Um how much are they paying for that? And then it's very, very clear to see whether or not there's a mismatch. So am I am I ever going to be able to sell enough to achieve that lifestyle that I want to achieve in the time and the capacity that I have? And if you actually don't, then that's fine. But you then look at, well, are there any other revenue streams? Could I look at some passive income? You know, what other value do I have? I've been running my business for five years. Maybe I could actually use some of that and create an ebook to help others set up a similar business. And then I sell that as passive income. Is there anything that I can do in terms of my pricing and maybe create some tiers with what I'm delivering? So instead of actually having just one service and people pay the same for everything, could I maybe structure it and package it so that I've got a premium offering? And then maybe I've got a, you know, a basic package, an entry package. Think about all the things that people are tapping into and draining your time and energy for. So are people asking you lots of questions about things that could become an education source or a workshop? So it's about looking at everything you're doing, how you're spending your time, what you're selling, what lifestyle you want, and making sure that the business model you're offering not only works in an effective, oh, and also making sure you've got really effective systems, even the most simple things that don't cost a lot of money can transform and take hours off of your week. So, so yeah, so systems, making sure that you're you're maximizing your value and making sure that you are working within your capacity.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

This show exists because women going through divorce deserve honest, warm, practical conversations. Not shame, not platitudes, just real talk. If that's what you're here for, please follow the show so you never miss an episode. And if today's conversation has helped you in any way, please share it with someone who needs it or leave us a review. Every review helps other women to find us. Thanks for listening. I thought was that too much? No, that's no, that's wonderful, but I have some questions. The first one is anyone that scrolls Instagram for five minutes will see ads every day about, you know, just make passive income. It's really easy. What advice do you have for for someone who says, well, that's great, you know, I've got these ideas for a product I can create. Is passive income a realistic option? Because I know we you hear sort of two sides of it, right? You hear passive income's really easy, pay me $97 and I'll teach you teach you how. And then you also have people who go passive income is uh is a lie. Obviously it's possible, but is there is there a system you can follow that to create passive income in a way that is helpful?

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Okay, so in my view, passive income isn't easy. Um it is possible, but it's something that you need an audience for. And I think a lot of us, and I know I've been guilty of it in the past as well, it's all about the creation, and we're all very good at creating, but it's about putting it out there. And you need to first of all make sure that you've got an audience of people that actually know that it exists and know where it is and know that it's how it's gonna help them. There's a lot of other things involved. It's you know, making sure that you've written it in a way that the audience can understand what the outcomes are. And there are a range, I would say that you need to tap into a lot of the online learning that's free. Look at what people are helping you with, look at what's available. You don't have to pay a fortune to get that advice, but you definitely don't get stuck don't get stuck in the content creation and then they go ta-da and then there's no one there, you know. I've got it. Woo! But um I think you actually need to build your audience and and everything that you need to do as well as around profile raising. People need to know, like, and trust you to be able to engage with you. And a lot of um a lot of income comes through word of mouth, and you have to almost put yourself out there and and get out there. There are women that have been incredibly successful and built great businesses and they they've just had the I guess the the willingness to just sit in their car and talk about things, and that's not an easy thing to do because it's scary. It's a vulnerable place to put, you know, to be there and actually just start talking about your business and talking about challenges and talking about what's going on because you know, you think people are gonna judge you, and but when you look at the people you admire online, then you know, then they're not always the flashy, good-looking ones that you think have made it, the ones that make us laugh, the ones that make us want to share memes, you know, these are the people, real people. So I think you absolutely need if if you can it's about building an audience and it's making sure that you've got that audience available who know who you are, what you do, and most importantly that what you're offering is gonna add value to their lives and give them something. And so if you can do that, then passive income will w absolutely work for you. Um if you are just gonna content create and then you can't understand why nobody wants it when you've just done nothing to build that profile or build the audience and let them know about it, then it will be really hard.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah, and that content, as you say, is just such a small part of it. And I think a lot of people give up very quickly. But you can have a piece of content without selling for I mean years, right? It it you don't have to think creating new things, you have to really s sell the shit out of what you got.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Absolutely, and that book sell like crazy. I remember seeing lots of content online at the time, and it was it was getting those people to say, like, and then people were going, Oh, have you seen that book? And it was the sell like crazy one. And it was it was basically became a hype then. Everyone's reading it, I want to read it. So it's almost like the messaging, even if I guess, even if you haven't got lots of people reading it, it's almost like the messaging around it is. you know, why are wimps so many people wanting to read this book? Or why are so many people wanting to? And you know, you're not giving specific numbers, you're not lying, but it's like there are people wanting to. So why are so many people moving into this space? So many people want this. And then I don't remember a single person around me that actually had a copy of that book or had ever read it. But you see it online and you think, oh well they've said it. So maybe there are lots of people I want to get involved. I want to have a look at what this book is all about. So I think creating that hype and it's just it's just around your messaging and there's so much online. I mean there's so many content online content creators out there that share absolute gold on their Instagram sites in terms of what would be a hook and what would what would create and just looking at what you engage with and what you share and you know just just being consistent and putting it out there. But you've you've got to make sure that there's an audience and people know like a trust you which is obviously really important for business but when you are going through that separation period and you're perhaps low on energy low on self-esteem someone's telling you your shit quite a lot do you have any tips on how to keep going and keep selling when you're just feeling flat and low um yeah I would um 100 there's there's a few things first of all I would say um and actually um build your friendship communities you need to have other women around you who understand the challenges that you're going through I know um when I was potentially thinking that I wasn't going to get any access to the equity for um when the house sold and I knew we had to be out in three weeks and I was just so overwhelmed with the business I found that I still I was still at the end of one of my programs when this was happening and so I actually feel that I had to put on my face for the business and when you're when you're doing that in that moment and you're in those mo and you're with other people it lifts you up automatically so I think having something to distract you is actually a really good thing and it gives you hope for the future as well. You know, get grounded go for a walk I used to listen to things like Abraham Hicks and she on YouTube little clips and she used to talk about the importance of lifting your vibration and making sure that you are journaling you know just something as simple as a gratitude journal and always remembering that you're you are where you wanted to be say three months ago so three months prior to that you might have still been thinking I haven't I'm you know I'm too I'm too worried to ask for a divorce I don't you know um I haven't had that conversation yet I need to be doing that and now you might be in the thick of it but Alicia that you've made that progress forward. So it's about thinking about the balance if you do need to go to work but don't think that you have to achieve everything right away as well. You know you can get a job and do this gradually you know there are ways to do this but surround yourself with good people find a distraction find something that's going to make you feel good about yourself and you know just start doing some of that work where you're and another thing look at chat as chat GPT I know it sounds silly but there's some really great chat GPT prompts where you can you know drop in and say you know this is one of the challenges that I'm facing or these are some of the things that I need to post about and I want to talk about can you give me some just some basic prompts that you can just create a simple tile on Canva and just put even if you're just putting one thing a day on there and and just sharing some of that vulnerability just get ChatGPT to help you but that that's what helped me obviously everybody's different but yeah and and try to carve out even if you just carve out an hour a week just give yourself an hour a week that's your time make it nice have a coffee do something meaningful and just make small steady progress and you will feel better and that time does pass and things do get better and if you know just all those things of reflection gratitude listening to podcasts are amazing and like like yours podcasts are great.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah yeah I I listen to a lot of podcasts. I actually had to stop because I think I got so into self-help I was just always trying to fix something so I had to just stop and be but I think that's really good advice and I think that as you say like having that community I think is so important because we can feel so alone in those times and and everything's a slog and everything feels so serious. And not that it's not serious but it's nice to just have people to bounce things around with I know when I was going through my divorce and my best friend went through a divorce around the same time and we would always try to find something to laugh at every day because you know there's so much going on it and it's so important to find that liberty and find things that make you feel good and and also just rest. I think uh I was the mistake I made and if I had my time again I would rest more I think I was spinning my wheels a lot of the time I thought I thought busy equaled more successful and so I would just be so busy but then you reach a level where you're not going to achieve anything else that day just go and sit down.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Yes. Yeah absolutely it's just you have to look after yourself and you have to be realistic. And in my business community that I've built up at one point when I was feeling really low one of the ladies paid for me to do a women's circle like a one of these breath work things and she said it's for your birthday we're going and then when I moved into my rental another lady in the business community came round to my house and bought a bottle of um champagne as a spec like a a something to say you know and then someone else popped around and bought me these little biscuits and said and some flowers and these are all women that I met through creating my business community who be care and that's why I really massively advocate for business friends because you can go networking and you can you can do the performancing but it's it's the friendships that you need and but it's friendships with people because you've got your normal friends but but it's like your friends that get business as well. So you can flip between different conversations and but you know that they've got your back and they they value you and they they want to support you just as much as you want to support them. And I think that is the goal finding people like that makes an enormous difference.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah I think I went to enough networking events where I was getting digital business cards from tech bros and things and it you know it it it it's felt it's felt so aggressive and and not my vibe at all. And I think when I started to associate more with especially with you know groups that were women in business but especially I think having yeah forming those friendships and those real connections where you get to know each other on a whole different level it's not just what are your KPIs it's how are you going this week I think that's so meaningful and it's something that women do really well as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Can you tell us about the women that you've worked with do you have any examples of you know women who have made it through this kind of experience and and come out the other side besides your good self of course yeah no there's um there's there's there's quite a lot a lot of the women and that I work with so typically when when people come to work with me they're usually at a point and I've I hear it quite a lot is they've been stuck in their business for quite a while. Some of them are single mums are um with new partners some of them are with existing partners and some are with partners and they're saying yeah no everything you're describing is exactly what I'm going through right now and you can sort of almost like sense that they're going to be on that pathway soon because I think it's when you run a business as well that's when you it's one of those times where you see whether the partner you're with actually genuinely supports you and has got your back and they they have or they haven't it's it's you know when like you said you experience and they said if your business isn't making money by Christmas you know that kind of pressure and you start to see things if you're with particular characters that um you know you might not get the support but you might sort of sense a little bit of sabotage as well in terms of um starting arguments before big events or you know not supporting you but then questioning you constantly not being available to take care of the children when they say they're going to and dropping you in it and then suddenly you've got to try and scramble around to sort something out. You know going off to work away for 10 weeks when you've told them that you need them there. You know it's like absolutely zero support and I think that is a big people women do tend to find that once they start doing something that they feel that that's when they realize that there is something seriously like like unbalanced in their their relationship. So the women that I I genuinely support are usually women who when they come to me they're they're stuck they're overwhelmed they're feeling quite isolated in their business and they they lack people that they can bounce ideas off of and get that sense of reality of it's not just you that's experiencing this. There's so many other people that are going through it so they feel that it's just them a lot of women say to me this is a point where I'm I'm I'm doing this um this this business programme or I'm doing this I I've started this business package because if I don't do if I don't do something now I'll never do it and I'll close my business they they feel like they've reached the end of the line and they can't see the point in what they're doing. A lot of the women have absolutely no understanding of their value their word just gets thrown in a lot at the beginning so oh but I'm just an admin person. I'm just I just do gardening or I just do this. There's you know I'm not a real they they don't identify with themselves as being a real business whatever a real business is meant to be they feel that they're they're a little hobby business or oh I'm just doing this. And they they really undervalue themselves and I think once they start working and they start building and they realize that what their value is and defining it and understanding the business skills come from putting yourself out there and how you mess how you phrase your messaging and how do you package all the value that you actually have and it's just packaging that and putting it out there for people to understand so that they buy from you. And they do realize that they have got that potential they have got that capacity and watching that inspiration and then seeing women really flourish and grow because they start to build that self-worth and that confidence in themselves and then hearing it from other women as well especially when you hear someone else say I absolutely love that what you do and I'm actually doing this activity next week and I'm doing this event or I'm I'm working on this project and I think you could really help me with it. And someone says oh I know someone that needs somebody that's doing that and then they connect and then suddenly other women in the group I don't even need to say anything other women in the group are building up the other women and saying but that's amazing why would you say that and we do a locked in session on a Tuesday where everyone works on their like their Hello Monday task for the week and it's those little 60 minute kaizan based learn in progress activities. Everyone works on one and then everyone shares their insights and where they are and their what their intentions are and are and obviously the other conversations happen as well. And yet you you just see these people women talking and supporting each other and sharing and it's just it's gold to watch and and that's I think that is where women start I I see women start and you know they they build that self-worth but they also start to build the business skills and it's through the structure and through the clarity that you get the confidence. You don't just you can't get confidence just by being confident. Well you kind of can there's fake it so you make it but I think you need for in business in small business the women that I see when they get the clarity when they get the structure and they get the connection that's when everything shifts for them.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah momentum's a wonderful thing I think once it starts to happen it it just sort of seems to take on its own energy. But something you said there was really interesting and I think it's important to mention the language that we use when we speak about ourselves and also the fact that the success or otherwise of your business is not related to the your value as a person. And I think we can internalize it so much and if people aren't buying what we're selling we can feel pretty crappy especially when we're going through something hard. But really any business no matter what business it is it's just about pushing different buttons and pulling different levers until you find the way to make it work. So if it's not working it can be a matter of just try a different way of selling until you find the way that people want it. And you know do your research ask people talk to people don't just assume if it's not selling that you're a terrible person which is so easy to do I think.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah and we do get stuck in because we only know certain things and um you know women are so very good at what they do they're really really good at the service and we do a a lot of women that I work with overgive um and they don't understand they underprice and overdeliver um which is a classic and don't want to ask for ask for people to do things for them or give them money you know they feel that selling their value is asking people to do them a favour and give them money but it it it's shifted it it's just a few mindset shifts I think and understanding and looking at it from a different perspective and the problem is is if you are isolated if you have been surrounded in a situation where you don't feel valued or perhaps you've you know you've always been the person that's worked in that industry or you've done something really well but you you just automatically assume that everyone knows how to do it because it comes easy to you that's another classic um but yeah no I agree is that you just need to make those slight shifts and sometimes you need somebody else to ask you the right questions to be able to do that. And yeah that that's where I find that once I have those what like having those one-to-one mentoring sessions and you know but doing the Hello Monday package and being there every Tuesday and women coming together you start to that you see this the progress shift and it it's just a it's such a joy to watch it's great.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Yeah I think yeah just reminding yourself too that that as you say you know especially if you've been doing something for a while I sometimes still to have to remind myself the thing that I'm doing helps people. I'm helping people by doing this and this is what I'm offering them rather than they're helping me by as you say they're they're doing me a favor by paying me. I'm actually helping people you know in their lives and that's really important. And it's a great I think it feels better when you think of it like that too. Like I feel like I'm doing something really worthwhile rather than you know just getting by and working for a dollar.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

You know it is it's that exchanging value you know but and and with my so I run a level up program for the local council and in our um Kickstarter session the very first question that we go through is you know what is the impact that you are creating for people so what is the difference that you are making so if you were you know what where were they before they worked with you and or used your product and where are they afterwards? What is that small shift and that change you have made in someone's life and even if it's a product like a candle like they've lit the candle and now they sm it it they've it's just relax them or given them a really it looks nice. They feel happy because you've given them that you know it's aesthetically pleasing and it smells nice and it's like that little treat. What is that one thing that you've done for someone because everything's attached to an emotion. Yes. And you know it's like knowing that you've made a small change in someone's life you've given them some time back what have you done for them that's made that you've given them the reassurance that their baby's safe in their baby carrier or whatever it is that you're giving to them and um when you know that and you can tap into that that's when you feel really motivated and it gets you back to your purpose again. And I think that is what I don't know many women that set up a business and said oh all I want to do is make money and I don't want to deliver any value. I want to deliver complete rubbish. You know every single woman I've ever met has done a business because they've seen a gap they've seen a frustration they've seen a pain point they've experienced it themselves or they've seen other people experience it and they want to go out there and make a difference for other people that are going through that and and at the same time bring their value and make and and do something meaningful and they've got skills and they've got those but they just because they don't see themselves as business people or they're having the skills or that something's not quite working they feel that they're somehow not good enough and I think that's such a shame and it's definitely not true.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah I love that. Now I'm going to um put uh a link to where people can find you in our show notes but just to um to leave us with today I was wondering if you might be able to just cast your mind back to Karen when she was freshly separating or or you know or thinking about a woman who might be listening now who who is going through that at the moment what's something they can do to make themselves feel more capable, more in control, um, that everything's going to be okay what what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 40:53

A couple of things find yourself some business friends. You don't have to necessarily join a network group so you could reach out to people in a local community and say I'm looking for women that are running businesses as well let's meet for a coffee you know you don't actually and and just start talking to other women so that you are not alone. I think that one is is a big one. I think starting to um starting to work through where you want to go what lifestyle you want to create where um what what is it that you're actually offering and are you doing that in a meaningful way that's going to make the money you need um be very clear on your personal finance as well. So know what money's going in, what money's coming out and you know list list what it is that you do that has value and identify what is that impact that you want to create. Just do those small little things just to remind yourself of what you're doing and why you're doing it. And like you said earlier look after yourself get some sleep and if you do need to get a job absolutely get a job because you you're gonna feel a lot more regulated and safe and in control if you know that money's coming in and if you need to hit the pause button absolutely hit the pause button because um you know pausing your business is fine. Like quitting maybe not you don't want to quit because why would you you know there's a difference between giving up and pausing and pivoting and trying something different um and and it's about framing it. You're not saying you're giving up you're saying you're pausing for a while and that's absolutely fine too but and like you said find something to laugh about chat to your friend get out for walks go to the get if you're near a beach go to a beach if you're near a park walk around the park do whatever you can to ground yourself and just feel you know just to have that sense of I guess gratitude for where you are but also hope for where you're going.

SPEAKER_01 43:05

Love that thank you Karen thanks so much for today that was wonderful. I think there's a lot of wisdom in there and and it and it makes it feel so much more doable I think with all of that wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

So thank you. This is my one of my favourite subjects having just gone through it seeing women go through it and also um yeah just just wanting to see as many women sort of really thrive because it is possible and you know that one person in your life should not have such an impact on the rest of your life preach I love that if doing this alone feels heavy women's divorce academy offers clear guidance practical tools and a supportive community for the legal financial and emotional realities of divorce whether you're considering separation in the middle of it or rebuilding afterwards there's something here for you.com