Divorce with Carolyn

ADHD, divorce and co-parenting with Sharon Collon

• Season 1 • Episode 22

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0:00 | 43:14

This week, Carolyn sits down with Sharon Collon from The Functional Family to talk about parenting through separation when ADHD is part of the picture – whether that's your child's, your own, or both. 

Sharon breaks down why transitions between two households cost the ADHD brain more than our neurotypical cousins, and shares tools you can use straight away: a "circular to-do list" that gives kids a visual path back to safety, a family meeting format that runs over dinner instead of turning into a toilet-roll witch hunt, and a reframe of rejection sensitivity dysphoria. 

Carolyn and Sharon also talk about what happens when a child comes home dysregulated after time with the other parent, and how to build systems that hold up on your worst day – not just your best one.


Key takeaways

  • Kids with ADHD often experience time as "now" and "not now" rather than a clear sequence – visual planners and wall calendars make transitions concrete.
  • A "circular to-do list" gives kids a visual path back to the safety of home, rather than a string of instructions to remember.
  • Family meetings work best short, low-pressure, and paired with an activity – like decorating pizza over dinner – rather than a serious sit-down.
  • Rejection sensitivity dysphoria (RSD) means divorce is more likely to land as rejection – naming it takes some of the sting out, for kids and adults.
  • Small, predictable anchors – a goodnight ritual, a private hug signal, a proper welcome home – do more for a child's sense of security than long conversations.
  • If a child regularly comes home dysregulated after time at the other parent's house, build in decompression time first: food, quiet, low demands, no big questions.
  • New systems need the child's buy-in, real simplicity, and around twelve weeks of consistent practice alongside a parent before they stick for an ADHD brain.

Links

Further resources

Send Carolyn a text

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SPEAKER_00

It will surprise nobody who's actually met me to know that I have ADHD. And so did two of my three kids. So this isn't a topic that I picked out of mild curiosity. This is actually a topic that has been a battleground during my co-parenting years after divorce. Today I'm talking with Sharon Collin from the Functional Family. As a mum of three boys with ADHD, Sharon combines lived experience with nearly two decades of ADHD research and formal coaching training. She helps parents create karma, more connected homes, which is something we could all do with. And this conversation has already changed some of the ways that I run my own house. Sharon's got some great ideas, like what she calls a circular to-do list. I won't ruin it for you, but it reframed how I think about visual planning for kids completely. And her take on family meetings is nothing like the version that I grew up with. She actually knows how to make it fun. Today, Sharon and I get into rejection sensitivity dysphoria, why moving between two households costs the ADHD brain more than most people realise, and how to build routines sturdy enough to survive your worst day, not just your best one. Sharon is also running some fantastic free training in September. More on that later in the episode. If ADHD is part of your family's divorce story, your child's, yours, or both, this one's for you. Let's get started. I'm Carolyn Tate, founder of Women's Divorce Academy, and your guide to turning your divorce into the best thing that ever happened to you. This is Divorce with Carolyn. Sharon, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm so excited to have you on as a parent myself with ADHD and with children with ADHD. This is something that has been part of my divorce reality, and I know it's part of reality for a lot of other women too. When a family separates, what happens for a child with ADHD that might be a little bit different from, say, a neurotypical kid?

SPEAKER_01

It's a really good question. And I think there is a few executive function things that could come into play here. And I want to preface this answer by always saying that the advice that I'm going to give on ADHD today is so, you know, take it in your stride because no one knows their child as much as you do. Like as the as the parent, you know your child the best. I'm going to make some general comments about ADHD today, and you get to pick and choose. It's like a cardigan. You can put it on, see if it fits. If it doesn't fit, you just take it off again. It's fine. So when we're talking about executive function challenges, which is what I, this the space that I work in, uh, there's a few things that could make divorce a little bit more different to say a neurotypical child who is going to process that change in family dynamics. So we've got time blindness or time awareness challenges, which is what I would label it as rather than time blindness. It's just that that perception of time is a little bit different. So when you are talking about navigating between two households or a dramatic transition happening, um, you saying something like you'll see your dad on Thursday, it doesn't really mean anything for a child with ADHD. There's two time zones. There's now and not now, right? So sometimes for a child with ADHD, they can't picture how far away Thursday is. Um, they don't know if it's next week, next year, next week, next hour. Um, and so being able to really break that down for them and show them when the dates are, when they're going to see their other parent, um, how things are gonna be broken up can really support the child. Um, then there's the emotional regulation piece, which is the same kind of grief that the parent would be experiencing and and um, you know, any child that is navigating this would be experiencing, but with no dimmer switch, so it might just come out looking a little bit different. Um so the emotional tensity might arrive at full volume, or we might just, you know, get a kind of different processing reaction to that change. So it's worthwhile noting that as well. Um, we've got the rejection sensitivity, which can really take that loss or that change and make it about them. They might really believe or internalize that change. So we just need to be careful as parents navigating that and really spelling that out for our child. And so we know that with the executive function challenges that come along with ADHD, that it's that it's more than just the child's executive function challenges. Parents, you know, ADHD is genetic, right? Like the parents are probably going to have it, one or more of the parents are going to have it as well. And so we know that that scaffolding shift, or that, you know, the difference in routines, the change and things is going to have a role to play in how that child, you know, navigates their way through this. So I'm sure we're gonna go into that further today. But, you know, we've we know with ADHD that there is that set level of executive function challenge, and it's just gonna have that slight twist that that might might make things um a little bit more nuanced in supporting this transition.

SPEAKER_00

Nuanced is a good way of describing it. I like that. Um and you're talking about that concept of time. Is it useful then, do you think, to have something like a wall planner that where everyone can see it and you mark things off? Here's when you're going to the other house, here's you know, when you're going to the other parents' house, or here's when we'll be going on holidays, you can see it all on a wall. Do you think that's helpful?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm a big fan of externalizing our thought processes as well. So yeah, as an adult, we have the agency and a bit of autonomy to dictate how our day is gonna go. And sometimes we forget that our kids don't necessarily sequence backwards like we do. Like we've had a whole lifetime to to practice that. And we kind of go through processes in our head of okay, we're gonna go there on Thursday and this on Tuesday. And you know, we do we do those sorts of things, but our kids don't really put that executive function or forward planning in place, they don't really have that yet. Um, so what what I like is to externalise that process and actually take our kids through that process of how we get there too. Um, so that might be a visual, um, it might be some pictures, it might even just be like, you know, I have a really great, it's kind of it's kind of like a circle to-do list that I take my kids through, and it takes them back to home because we know for a lot of kids with ADHD, home is their safe place, right? So you might be showing all the steps it's gonna take to for them to come back to you. Um so what you're gonna do in that time. So there's a whole host of different things that we can do, but I think anything external and visual is really good. We don't want to hold it all up in our heads because chances are our kids, they're not mind readers. They don't know what what the process is. So we need to externalize it for them.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I love the idea of a circular to-do list. That's wonderful. And I know for me, when my kids were little, I had a chart on the fridge that was this is the stuff you need to pack to take to dad's. And this is the stuff you need to pack for lunch. Um, you know, there'd be like a piece of fruit, um a vegetable, uh, you know, some sort of carbohydrate, and they, you know, they'd they'd go through. And before they could all read, there were pictures of things, you know, so that they could just be able to check things off the list. Because as a parent with ADHD as well, the last thing I wanted to do was be going to each of my three children. Do you have this? Do you have that? Have you done this? Because, oh my God, I would have some sort of nervous breakdown for sure. So it's not just helping the kids, of course, it's helping us. So apart from the planners and the I like the todaycular to-do list and all that sort of thing, are there any other techniques you see that work really well?

SPEAKER_01

I think that having regular communication is really important. The ADHD brain is designed for problem solving, right? It's really good at problem solving. And it also doesn't like usually being told what to do. So I don't know if you've noticed. Have you noticed? Um, I've seen that. Uh so what we want to do is have those regular opportunities to have that family communication. So I love a family meeting, but it's also one of the steps that so many families just perpetually stuff up. So is it okay if I explain a little bit about it? Same with routine charts and all of that. It's I think we make them way more complex than they actually need to be, and we don't tailor them for ADHD. So it can be very specific how we roll these out with success. It's important to tailor it towards ADHD. So a family meeting, usually when people talk about family meetings, you have this like internal groan, like, oh, oh, it's gonna be unpleasant, right? And that's because most people use the family meeting as a platform to air grievances. And it's just becomes like a witch hunt of like who doesn't replace the toilet roll on the toilet roll holder? And then we all the kids will jump in and go, I didn't do it, they did it. And like it's just becomes this like witch hunt scenario, and it's awful. It's like you're a fly on a wall in our house. We don't want to do that, right? Like, that's terrible. No one wants to come to that lame meeting. Um, so what we want to do is keep them fast and increase buy-in. That's our purpose of those things. So I've got a really cool template on my website, a family meeting agenda, that I step you through this. But basically, what you want to do is you want to um encourage everyone to say thank you for something, right? And that's a very specific reason why I do this is that as that every brain has a negativity bias, and the ADHD brain particularly has a negativity bias, right? Because it's designed to scan for safety all the time, and that like it's more, it's better for your survival if you pick up things that are um, you know, that are gonna impact you negatively. So um what I do is I get our everyone in the family to say thank you to someone else in the family for something. And the reason I do that is because when you look for the bad, you'll find it. And when you look for the good or you look for something to be grateful for, you'll also find it. So we all say thank you, and that just starts it off on the right tone. Um, then we talk about the plan for the week. And this is the part where we would bring out, I just we use a Google Calendar, so we just bring out, we just print that out and we're we're highlighting who does what. And we're talking about the logistics, and this is this is five minutes. This is not a 40-minute mum monologue about what's gonna happen, all the intricacies. Don't give too much detail here. It's just, you know, you've got this on Thursday. How are you gonna get there? How are you gonna get home? Do we need to call in support? Do we need to cancel? You know, like they were just scanning for those things and giving like the breakdown. And this is your opportunity to go, oh, I don't think we can do that on Friday. Like this is I've packed too much in. Am I realistic about my timelines? All of those things. Because I am a time optimist, and I think some people are time pessimists, time optimists. I'm a time optimist. I think it's incredible. I think I can do all sorts of things in one day. Me too. Tan is so elastic.

SPEAKER_00

Of course you can fit in all those things.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a time wizard. I'm a time wizard, right? So I basically think I can bend time to my will, but I can't. It turns out I can't. And these meetings are a really good point of being able to see if I can actually bend time, which it turns out I can't.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so it's just checking crazy, like every week.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So we're just checking in about those. And also, this is encouraging the executive function of forward planning for our kids, also, because this is the very same skill that they're going to need as they get older. So I'm just asking, can we get there? Do you can you get to basketball? What do you need to do? Do we need to check in with this person? All of these things. Uh, and then we're talking about meal planning. So this is um outsourcing, is another, you know, forward planning uh executive function here. So we're we're asking for their buy-in. What do they want? Everyone, you know, do you want tacos? Do we want and we're asking for ideas so you don't have to sit there as the parent and think about all every single meal. That's exhausting and no one's happy. And if they suggest it, they're much more likely to be excited about that option. Um and perhaps if your children are a bit older, perhaps they might like to make that option. Um, but we're just getting all of that done, make the decision once, make it for the whole week, and then it's done. We don't move from that decision. We might swap days, but we've uh essentially got those things there. Uh, and then we go around, um, we ask for shopping list requests. So we actually say, What do you need for this week? Is there anything you'd like to submit as a request? Which is unleashes. This is introducing novelty here, which the ADHD brain loves. Okay, so it loves a bit of novelty and anticipation. So we're see how we're introducing like these fun things. And my kids will always come out with something outrageous. They'll be like, Yeah, we're gonna get this chocolate and this chocolate. And I'm like, Yeah, we're look, we're negotiating on these things. But I'll usually get a few past the keeper, okay? Like I'll let them have a few things because I want this meeting to be um high stakes and valuable. And um, and you know, then we've just done our planning and it brings up the opportunities. Notice we're not workshopping the toilet roll holder, we're not doing any of that. We're just making it fun, snappy, and we're doing it interactively over a meal. So we're we're actually having the meeting because my kids would all struggle to sit down for a serious meeting. We're not comfortable with front door therapies, okay? So we're like side door. So we're having our dinner, it's interactive. We're usually like decorating our own pizza or like doing tacos where you're using tongs and you're you're making the thing as we're actually having the meeting. So hands are busy and we can all be at the table. It allows us to all have that opportunity to have that bit of buy-in and family communication.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I love that. That's such a good idea. How clever. I wanted to um to go back. I know you mentioned rejection sensitivity before, and and that's such a big thing for a lot of people, and not everybody knows about it. Can you tell us first a little bit about what it is and also how a child in this situation might experience it when suddenly parents are not together?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So rejection sensitivity dysphoria is perhaps one of the most important pieces of ADHD. Now it's not its own diagnosis, it's a um it's something that sits alongside ADHD. And I think that um it's uh I've never met a person with ADHD that doesn't have RSD. Right. So I just want to say that's how significant and common I think it is. Yes, and it is a bit really, isn't it? Yes, yeah, and how people's different coping mechanisms for navigating it. So rejection sensitivity dysphoria is essentially someone feeling uh intense an intense emotional response to perceived or real rejection. Now, remember the ADHD brain is uh in a state of hyper-arousal a lot of the time, and it is looking for threat, right? Like it's designed to scan for threat. And plus, we add to the fact that it does genuinely get more rejections than the neurotypical person, right? So had more experience with rejection. And now we are seeing little micro rejections or little microaggressions everywhere. And the easiest way for me to give an example of rejection sensitivity dysphoria is actually perceiving neutral interactions as a rejection. So there's real rejection that's happening that's absolutely valid, and then there's perceived rejection. And so I could send my um husband a text message, right? And I it would say something neutral, which I would think as neutral, like, hey, gonna be late, start without me. Right. My head, that's completely neutral. But as a person with really strong RSD, he would pick that up and he would go, Hey, gonna be late, start without me, right? Like he would read it in that tone, right? And it it it's a it's a really tricky one to navigate because and for our kids as well, like they are pers feeling that rejection all the time. So those little micro rejections. And so, in as you're navigating a divorce or separate households, you know, it's very easy for them to make some of the very adult conversations or those little micro moments about them. So they feel that it's because of something they did, because of something they said, or perhaps to do with their behavior, or any of those things that as parents, we know that not to be the case. But their RSD brain is going to make it about them and make it about something that they did. I actually love to reframe it's this is based on uh William Dodds Dodson, William Dodson's. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So he's kind of like the masterclass of RSD. And he actually reframes it as your radical safety detector. Okay. So I love that for kids better. It sounds so much nicer than rejection sensitivity dysphoria. That sounds like another whole thing. Like, don't even let it. Something else is wrong with you. Yeah. So um, what I like is that it's scanning for safety, and we just need to challenge whether that's actually the real situation or not. So you say, do we have evidence for that? We might very well have evidence for that, and that's very important that we notice. Um, but are we actually, you know, are we actually experiencing a rejection and a rejection in this instance? And it's just helpful. Um, because warm you know, we we need to be able to kind of tame the beast of RST a little bit and know how to navigate it within ourselves and know what our triggers are too because everyone has different triggers for rejection sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00

Please try to do that. But that we can support our kids to have that language for it, I think is helpful too. Other women we just want to treat it with compassion.

SPEAKER_01

It deserves respect. Some kids can have a physical pain response to RSD. Like they're having a full-on body response to it. So it deserves to be treated with respect.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It really does. And I think um, yeah, my partner and I actually have um have talked about this because we both definitely have it. And just taking the air out of it, and we just, you know, you will say to each other, Oh, I'm feeling a bit RSD today, you know, and then that's sort of enough for us to go, oh, okay, like I'll try and be a little bit gentler with you and explain the context and all those sorts of things. But it's those little things too, as an adult, like if you have a boss that says, I need to see you in my office, but tomorrow, and so you spend like 24 hours going, Oh my god, I'm getting fired, that's the worst. And I think with kids too, you know, that kind of come and see me, or something like my kids would just lose it if I say anything like that because they think they're in trouble, they think that you know something terrible's happened. But also in the context of divorce, you've got one parent most of the time moving out, which is like the ultimate rejection, right? Even and kids are so egocentric, even if they're neurotypical. So you've got this massive rejection. And as some as one parent out of the two, how can you help your child to feel more secure through that process?

SPEAKER_01

This is this is a tricky one, right? And it's gonna be different for every family, but I would say that I would be looking and scanning for anchors, right? So I love an anchor. I love the term anchor because it makes me feel grounded, it makes me feel secure. And so I really like if, you know, using that word is actually helpful. So I would look for little pockets of predictability or little traditions that we can have to stabilize that transition because we haven't we've got a big transition of the actual divorce, right? And the change of family scenarios, but now we've got microtransitions and possible transition injuries happening all the time as we move from household to household. So there's all different stages of transition. And we know that the transitions cost the ADHD brain. They do. We it's hard. It's hard to navigate transitions, and most people really undersell transitions as well. Like most people go, oh, like people with ADHD struggle with transitions. Like, but did you know that every transition actually has four steps and it can like there's an opportunity on uh for an ADHD brain to get stuck on each of the steps. So it's it's it's much more um people don't give enough weight, right? And so I'd be scanning for little pockets of predictability, little pockets of of saying you belong here, like that you're welcome here, that you're safe here, uh, and and little anchors in in the way of tradition. So it might be that every time you say goodbye to your child as they sent going to off to the other parent, you have a little uh the same line that you repeat the same, like a little code word that only you and them know, right? Like just like, see you later, like alligator or something, you know what something that's pretty lame, but like my kids would never that would never fly. Um, but something, a little thing that you that they know. Um, I do this cute little thing with my sons, right? Like they're not super comfortable with uh big things of affection in front of other people because they're really cool, right? Like they're really cool and mum's not. Uh it's a shame. It's a shame I'm not cool. Um, but I I do this thing called an eye hug where I just look at them and I go like this, I squeeze my eyes, and that is an eye hug, and they do it back to me, right? But that's so lovely. I love that. And it's this little moment of connection. I see you, I'm giving you a hug, I'm squeezing my eyes, right? But I'm not making a big scene of it. And so I'd be looking for moments of those that you could just weave in throughout your day. The best ones are ones that you don't need accessories for, you don't need to go to a special place for. They're just little moments of you're safe, you're secure, that we're we're anchoring this down. Our relationship is still strong. So with kids, they're often doing bids for connection, right? Now, particularly if you have ADHD yourself as the parent that's listening to this, you know, I don't know about you. I get to the end of the day, I'm touched out. Just leave me alone. Like everyone's at me all the time, right? Like everyone wants to piss me. And so I think that having those little moments is actually more significant than having the big, deep and many for conversations, the big stories about Minecraft that never end. You know, all of those things, like just going for a few of those moments. Like I've got another little cute one that I do for my kids when I'm saying goodnight to them. I say goodnight and I get them to blow out the light. And just as they blow, I turn the light off, right? That's so cute. Yeah. All these little like little things that take no time, but just give they're predictable. They know that they're going to happen. And so they're ready for it. And it just if you can offer that predictability in a nice, easy way, um, and and you know, package it throughout the the the stay when they're at your house, you're kind of just reassuring the nervous system that they have little moments that they know what's going to happen. They know what's going to happen when mum does this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And they're a part of that. They're uh this is like a belonging thing too, isn't it? Which is so important. I love that. Um, and it ties into, I know we talk a lot about uh when you get divorced, creating your own rituals because you used to have these family rituals, everyone, every family has its rituals, whether they know it or not. Um, but when you're on your own, suddenly, you know, we have women, for instance, who are upset that they're not seeing their kids on Christmas Day because that's a really important day and that sort of thing. So we talk about create your own ritual, whatever that is, whether it's on Christmas Eve, you know, on Christmas Eve, my kids and I, I give them new pyjamas every Christmas Eve, and we all sit around and have dinner in our pajamas, and it's like a nice little thing that we do because they spend most Christmas days with their dad. Um, but just those little, you know, those sorts of things. But having those, then bringing those down to like daily touch points, I think, is really a beautiful thing too. And although you're doing it really mindfully, the children don't have to know that, you know, it's just sort of bringing it in, isn't it, in a really natural way and and creating that real sense of belonging, which is so beautiful. I love that. If you're separating and you've got kids at home, you'll know the hardest part often isn't the lawyers or the logistics. It's finding the right words when your kids ask you why everything's changing. That's exactly why I've made a free guide, what to say to your kids right now. It gives you calm, age-appropriate things you can actually say for the big talks and also for the small everyday moments that you're not expecting. So you're not scrambling in the hard conversations. It's free, it's practical, and you can download it at the link in our show notes. Because your kids don't need you to have all the answers, they just need to feel safe and steady with you.

SPEAKER_01

Don't forget too, like one of the things that I have to work really hard at this because I'm such a doer, right? Like I'm always thinking about the next step that I have to do. I'm always in the future. Um, but bringing it back to really welcome your kids home. So as they come home from school, like not going peppering them with questions. I learned this the hard way. Like, we need predictions. But but just coming in and just like doing a bit of a welcome. Like, I'm so glad to see you. I'm so glad you're here. Like it's just when they go out, it's it's very normal for a child to go out into an unsafe environment, right? Like, school is unsafe for a lot of our kids. So they go out, they navigate that, they're navigating social cues, they're navigating friendship, all the stuff that they often find challenging. They come, they return back to safety, which is why I like that circle to-do list, right? They return back to safety, just welcome them into safety. Like just go, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so happy to see you. That's all it takes. It doesn't have to be a big monologue about how everything is. It's just, it's just this little moment of just like, oh, yes, you're here. I'm a you know, you're uh you're seen. You're seen, you're welcome here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love that too. That's beautiful. And yes, I've learned the hard way too, that even just how is your day apparently is very problematic. Because they've they've been on all day. And we know this too, as as you know, having ADHD, like when I've been in meetings or talking to people all day, the last thing I want to do is think about answering questions or formulating responses. And I just want to, yeah, sit down and stare at the view for a while and have someone hold my hand and tell me I'm fun.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, some you know, to be honest, someone asks me how my day is if you catch me on a stressed moment, like that feels like another demand, another thing I have to do, right? Like so it I I've learned that uh the the afternoons are a really tricky time for like we don't car well as a family at all. Like I've put a full podcast on it. We don't car well. It's our most volatile time. You put all three boys across the back, there's gonna be a there's gonna be blood spilled, okay? And so um what I do is when I pick up the boys, I learnt that I used to go, how's your day? What's you sit with that person? Do you hand your note in, you're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it'd just always end up so intense and everyone would be screaming in the car. So what I do is I stand at the school gate now and I've got cheese and bacon rolls in one hand because they haven't eaten all day and they I know what they like. They need some food. Doesn't even matter what it is. And I stand there, I say, okay, and then I hand the food, I don't ask any questions. We walk back to the car in silence while they're eating their cheese and bacon roll. And the actual part where I talk to them about their day doesn't actually occur till about 15, 20 minutes later. There's this whole just quiet processing and get going back to safety before we even attempt the questions or update on how life is going. We just eat, go back to the car in silence.

SPEAKER_00

And that that actually works. That sounds lovely. Oh, I know. And because I mean, you know, we're talking about that as adults we struggle with that, but these are kids that don't even know themselves yet and they don't know what's going on, right? So it's and that leads into my next question, which is often when divorce happens, one parent is more supportive of ADHD than the other. Um, you know, as we've talked about before, sometimes one parent doesn't even believe in ADHD, or you know, it depends on when the diagnosis happened, all this sort of stuff. There's so many variables. But the question is, you know, something I always talk about is that you can only control what you can control in your own home. So if you're trying to create a really nurturing space, and you've covered some of this now, but with if they come home really dysregulated from the other parent's place and, you know, they're upset or they're, you know, just just ratty, um, what are some things we can do to help them ease in? I think that that welcome is a really good start. Um, are there other ways that we can help them to ease in and also just to learn to live with the differences between homes?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, this is really tricky, right? Because I mean, it's been in my experience that nothing brings up a bit of sort of intense responses rather than like more than ADHD, right? That's always like the old guy at the barbecue who's like ADHD didn't exist in my day, and like overdiagnosed and drugging our children and all of the stuff, right? That's based on nothing. And that with when it's your person that you're co-parenting with and your ex-partner, that's hard to take. And, you know, it's more common than you think. Like it's very unusual that both parents um have a really good understanding about ADHD, even even in the families um, you know, that I work with, you know, the there's often someone doing the bulk of the research, um, usually the mum, I'm not gonna lie about it. And the dad's kind of just going for the ride a lot of the time. Um, it's getting better. Um, but there's a whole education piece that really needs to be understood. It's it's ADHD is not this, it's not just a focus issue, right? We tend to put it down to focus school. It's been my experience that that is the the thing that trips people up the least. Emotional regulation is what trips people up the most, right? And so um, what we want to do is when we're doing that transition or going between two houses to really kind of honor that piece, that that is usually the part that causes people the most amount of distress. Um, so I would be building in that decompression time when you do the transition. If they're coming back dysregulated, then we need to, that's a predictable friction point. If they're coming back more than once, like every child has a bad day, we have a crap sleep, whatever, like it we're gonna throw some extra friction on those days. But if they're consistently coming back dysregulated, now it's predictable, now we need a structure around it. Um, so you might not be able to control what happens in the other person's house. And they might have um, because a lot of say if your partner only has the children for every second weekend or every weekend or whatever, they're gonna cram that with so much fun novelty time and all these experiences, and they're gonna, it's gonna be a huge highlight reel, and they're gonna come back to you, they're gonna have be over stimulated, had too much food colouring and sugar and all of the things, and then where where are they gonna put all that excess energy and all that decompression that you're probably gonna unleash it on their safe person, right? So it's gonna be a bit volatile. And I think this is I mean, I'm not afraid to say that this is probably a little bit more common, like it's a a common scenario, right? Would you agree?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I hear it from women all the time, and we have a term for it. They're called Disneyland Dads, and uh they're just like the fun dads who, you know, take them out. It's not always dads, obviously. Sometimes there's Disneyland mums too, but um, but you know, they just like they want to, yeah, as you say, cram in all the fun, they want to be adored, they want to be loved, they don't get to do the day-to-day stuff, so they just, yeah, everything all at once. And it's it's a lot to mop up afterwards.

SPEAKER_01

This is the thing, right? Because a lot of our kids with ADHD can can handle that in the moment, right? So they it they're loving it, all the novelty and all the anticipation and all the attention and all of the things, but then it it's all got to go somewhere because we all know how that ends, right? It's not yeah, not with calm and peace. Exactly. Like the baseline for ADHD management is what we call the slab of the house, right? So you've got to get the slab as as in as level as possible for ADHD management. And this is this is aside from medication. Um, medication is great. We absolutely need it, but it's like doesn't still doesn't give you the skills in terms of executive function skills. So we still need that support. So when we have um the slab of the house, the slab of the house is sleep, diet, exercise, time in nature, right? Like that that's the things that um control how variable some of our ADHD uh challenges are. And when those things are out of whack, which all for all of us they go out of whack at different periods, and in that in those times of high excitement where we've just thrown six activities into one weekend or whatever, you're probably gonna have sleep out of whack, you're probably gonna have diet out of whack, um, time in nature is probably might be okay. Um, and you know, exercise might be okay. Um, but we've we've got a two of the slabs that are a bit wonky. And when you build on top of a wonky foundation, the whole house is gonna be wonky. So we've just got to allow for that. So I would say that if it's a predictable friction point that they're coming back dysregulated most times, now we need some structure around it. So it might be that we go straight in for outside because we know nature is a great regulator. That's one of our slabs. So we just go straight to outside, we have a snack out there, we're gonna keep our questions low. We might go straight into a decompression activity where, like, it might be that your child really likes building Lego or likes doing something, you know, that that's a bit quo on the quieter side. Now, screens are a tricky one because screens, I mean, that's a whole another podcast, but screens are quite good for a lot of kids in terms of decompression, they're low demand, but they can also be a bit dysregulating for some kids. So it's just worthwhile noting. Generally, as a rule of thumb, the further away it is from your face, the better it is. So even if you're playing video games or you're watching TV or a movie or whatever, have it on the actual TV screen. Don't have it in your hand. The the putting it in your personal space makes it more dysregulating. So just worth noting as a little side note. I would lower the demand for that time as they're coming back on entry. So I wouldn't plan family photos. Um, or like Lord. Can you imagine? I wouldn't take them straight into Kmart. Like I I just would really structure out that time, like put a bit of thought to that they're gonna need a bit of decompression. They're probably gonna need something to eat, they're probably gonna need something to drink. Um, iced water is a really good regulator as well. It's a full mouth feel, like just a bit of iced water, snack, their favorite snack in the backyard. Like it doesn't have to be uh, you know, too too involved, and then just lowering demand for a little bit of time. Um so I would kind of plan for that if if you know that that is a predictable friction point. I would have that kind of game plan in place. And if you're doing a pickup, like if a lot of kids, you know, parents meet each other at a set destination, just have a park stop on the way home, you know. We just we're just building that in because as you get home, it's so easy for us to go, oh well now I'll just go and put the washing on and like our child goes, and now I'm just gonna go and get my device, right? We're always thinking about what we have to do, but in a park, you've just gotta you've gotta pause for the minute. So it might just be um good to stop off on the way home.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love that. And I think I have always my kid my kids and I have always gone on bushwalks or gone for picnics in parks and things like that as a favorite activity that we do. And we'll often take games and things as well, and we'll play games or whatever. But um but it's it's just naturally become such a part of our togetherness that um wasn't even intentional, it was just like, oh look, we accidentally did something awesome. Um, but uh what I love about that plan is that even though it's a really complex issue, the answer is actually really simple, isn't it? It's it's creating that predictability and it's it's giving them, you know, shoring up that foundation, as you say. And I I love that. I think it's it's well within our power to do it and it's not overwhelming. And this is something I wanted to ask you too, because uh as we've talked about, a lot of kids with ADHD have a parent with ADHD. So a lot of people who are listening to this have ADHD themselves. So when I got divorced, my youngest was four, and I also had a six-year-old and a 12-year-old. And I was great at creating systems. I created systems, did I but did I police the systems? But not so much because oh my god, I had enough to do. So you know, I I would put lists on the fridge of this is what you need to think about, this is what you need to do, this is what you need to pack. But beyond that, like for instance, my my daughter at her room um is a bit messy. And I would create a list for her of going, okay, on Mondays you spend 10 minutes clearing off your desk, on Tuesdays you pick up all your dirty clothes. And so we tried to get on top of it that way, but I would just oh have I checked this week? No, I haven't checked. That's really hard. Um, my brain has a lot of stuff going on as well. And of course, when emotions are high, which they are during that period, how can somebody with ADHD help to create those systems and then police them in a way that's effective without having it all fall over the minute you lose your attention span?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's such a good question. And there's a few pieces to that, right? So, number one, I would say that to focus on only focus on things that are in line with your family's values, right? It's the same feeling I have about boundaries, right? Like we just hold the boundaries that are in line with your values. Um, so typically we go too hard too fast, right? So we'll create all of the systems at once. Um this is this is the the great job of a credential ADHD coach. So we we want to have that guidance to create and pressure test some of our systems. So creating something that is will hold on the worst day, like on the day where your capacity is the lowest. Most of us make plans like it's a high capacity day, um which is what I'm hearing in a little bit in that is just working out number one, is it worth having a plan around? Like, is it actually like I used to make my kids sit at the dining room table, right? I was very upset about it, right? And there was a point where I was like, I don't even care about this. Why why am I fighting about this? I don't care. I just don't care about it.

SPEAKER_00

Society tells us all that it's so important to sit and have dinner. We I actually built in dance breaks. So every single child was allowed one dance break during dinner. Like you get up and dance for two minutes.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, that's awesome. Like, why are we holding things that we don't even care about? Right. So just checking that it's actually like knowing what your family unit values are, right? So we can just check. We can we can check that it's in line because then we don't have to hold it all and we're not fighting over something that isn't even about a priority for our family, because that that's a clear sign of burnout, right? Like we'll start just fighting over every single thing and creating trying to create structure and systems over every single thing, and then you won't be able to hold them, right? So you there's too many things. Um, also making sure that it's a low capacity day or as simple, easy as possible, because if you're going to introduce something, um, you know, the the the very shady research about habit formation was was 21 days, right? Um, but that's now it's a bit not pro it's not proven anyway. It was a bit shady that research. But for the ADHD brain, we're looking at 12 weeks, okay?

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So if you're gonna introduce a system, you've got to be able to actively participate and body double in that system because a lot of body doubling, like doing alongside, um, it needs to be you need to be able to hold it with your child, okay? So we can get that habit formation, we our brain can go into autopilot and we can do the thing without you. So we often go too too complex and we give up too soon. We expect that they're going to be able to do it independently way too soon. So this is where we we we look at creating the right structure one at a time, getting the child's buy-in, getting their opinion about how it should be done, because you know, we need to get their, we need them to have buy-in on it. We need it's not not all mum's asking them to do. Um, it needs to be what they think needs to be done. Um, and sometimes that can be a hard one for us to to take as parents, because you know, I I my temptation to go in and remake a bed is just incredibly high. I have to let it go, right? I don't, I don't do it. I don't do it. What and we're praising effort, not not completion, right? Yeah for ADHD. And so um I think that they're the kind of steps that I would take. Um, but I think that sometimes we're too close to it to see it. And so have having someone that you can workshop it with who does understand ADHD to pressure test it a little bit and also help refine it. And then treating ourselves with a little bit of grace as well, because all even if a system that you establish, and I mean I do this every day, all day, every day, a system that you establish that fails, right? And I'm using fails like fails because I don't think there is a fail, um, is good information, right? So um uh something that falls over um is gonna give me more information than if it went well. Because I'll learn exactly why that fell over, what what the weak spots are, so I can workshop it for the thing that I'm gonna roll out. And the good news is for families is that there's a real clear piece of information that comes across. Like once you hit on a strategy that works for your family unit, it's good information because then you go, okay, that usually pulls across to lots of other friction points. Like families usually have these like little golden threads that you can tease out. They can go, okay, body doubling really works. Okay, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna do that for the next strategy? And it'll end up making a whole lot of your friction points a lot easier once you know what those key drivers are.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I need to find my golden threads.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They're there, they're there. Thank you so much. That's all incredibly helpful. Can you tell me a little bit about how people can work with you? If if they are, you know, coming up against some challenges with ADHD. What services do you provide and where can they find you?

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. So I have a website called the functionalfamily.com. We are doing uh free training in September where we're helping families design their systems. Um, so it is the functionalfamily.com forward slash system if you would like to grab a free spot for that. Um, there's also the ADHD Families Podcast and the ADHD Family Village, which is our free support community. So go in there and get involved. And and also I just want to reassure people that we know more about ADHD than we ever have before, right? Like we know so much more about it and we know how to work with the ADHD brain. Like it's it's and I want to empower people that to know to in to learn about how your brain works and then just take some of the sting out of, you know, of criticizing ourselves for the things that we don't do well and start enjoying the things that we do do well and seeing if we can pull some of those strengths across to the things that we find challenging because there's so much power in knowing what allows your family to shine and what um what what you can make easier for yourself and and um and enjoy family life. Like it's we're only here once, right? We may as well enjoy it and and and celebrate it and celebrate how our brains work.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you. Yeah, just you know, submit to the chaos and have a good time. Yep. Thank you so much for joining us today, Sharon. Thank you. If doing this alone feels heavy, Women's Divorce Academy offers clear guidance, practical tools, and a supportive community for the legal, financial, and emotional realities of divorce. Whether you're considering separation in the middle of it or rebuilding afterwards, there's something here for you. Find us at Women's DivorceAcademy.com.