Off Track Saratoga Podcast

Not Just a Modeling Show: The Reality Behind Top Model with local contestant Jenna Hotaling

• Noel McLaren & Zac Denham • Season 1 • Episode 4

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0:00 | 46:00

From Saratoga to the runway… and behind the scenes of reality TV 👀

This week on Off Track Saratoga, Zac and Noel sit down with local standout Jenna Hotaling, who takes us inside her experience on America’s Next Top Model—just as the new Netflix documentary “Reality Check: America’s Next Top Model” has everyone talking.

Jenna gets real about what it was actually like behind the cameras—from being isolated before filming, to how producers cast for drama, to the pressure of maintaining your identity in a world that wants to shape it for you.

We also dive into:

  •  What casting was really looking for (hint: it’s not just modeling) 
  •  The difference between “TV Tyra” and real-life interactions 
  •  Body image in the modeling world—and how Jenna built confidence anyway 
  •  Why she refused to give up school, sports, and control of her image 
  •  Life after the show (spoiler: it didn’t define her) 

It’s funny, honest, a little chaotic—and full of perspective you won’t get from the screen.

🎙️ If you’ve watched the documentary, this is the insider take you didn’t know you needed.

👇 What surprised you most about Top Model?

Support the show

Noel

Watching the documentary, it's not just a modeling competition.

Jenna

They're really just searching for the best possible drama.

Noel

Ooh. I'm Emmy Award-winning journalist Noel McLaren.

Zac

And I'm local business owner Zac Denham. And this is Off-Track Saratoga Podcast.

Noel

Sometimes we're on track.

Zac

Sometimes we go a little off.

Noel

But it's always worth the listen. Hi everybody, welcome back. Zac hates me right now. So truth be told.

Zac

Welcome to Noel's last show.

Noel

I'm fired taking over.

Speaker

Yes. This is actually uh the hate.

Noel

First of all, welcome to our guest, Jenna Hotaling. Yeah. Jenna is joining us because, first of all, we love her. Secondly, she was on America's Next Top Model. Yes. And there's a documentary out, a new documentary. It's a good one. And we had to get a local girl's perspective about it.

Zac

ANTM is back on everybody's minds, back on the radar, and we thought it'd be a great opportunity to talk all things top model and life before, during, and after.

Noel

And she's going to take my position here because

Noel forgot to hit record

Noel

just to go back to why I'm fired. I hit record on the camera. I did not hit record on the audio recording device. And here's what I'm going to say. Listen, I'm producing, I'm putting this all together, and there's too many tabs open in my brain. And when I don't hit the record button, so Zach is sitting next to me steaming. He's on fire right now.

Zac

I'm definitely mad, but you know, that's showbiz. So Jenna and I went on a small conversation while Noelle was fumbling with all the things.

Jenna

Her broken homework. The homework broke.

Zac

The dog ate my homework. Listen. We connected on the moment of, oh, remember what it was like to be in school and get through your homework and not and and the computer crashes before you Microsoft Word gave out. You know, we've all been there.

Noel

Hits always hit save. Always press recording. Yes.

Zac

Yes. And my mom always bailed me out, and your mom.

Jenna

Very tough love. You're wasting both our times by calling me. You need to figure your problem out.

Zac

Listen, moms of all kinds. They make the world go around.

Noel

I feel like I just wouldn't tell anybody about my problems. If there was, I'd be like, oh, I can't say anything because then everybody's gonna be mad at me, and I would just like fix it myself somehow. And the best training I ever had to be in news was to wait till

Succeeding under Pressure

Noel

the very last second to do my work. Like a 50-page papers do. I wait until the night before pulling all nighters. But I get an A.

Zac

Yeah, God, don't put us in the same group for a group project.

Noel

This is why we had to redo this last minute. Always got the A, though. Always, always, and then they'd get pissed because I'd get an A, and they would have spent like weeks in the library and got like a C. You're positively reinforced that behavior to keep doing it. But it was great for news because it's like what? You have to get to the scene of a crime and like quick five minutes spit something out. So I mean, listen, I work great under pressure. Give me too much time, don't give me a deadline.

Zac

I feel like that's the millennial blood type. I feel like we've all ever since we've been put on this earth, we've always been in that kind of space. Yes, absolutely. Freaking out about something. There's some sort of crises at some point. Always a crisis.

Jenna

I still hit the save button a thousand times on my Microsoft, but now autosaves.

Zac

But I was gonna say, thank God for autosave, but I still hit it like an anxious person. Well, welcome to the show, Zena. Thanks for having me. So obviously, uh America's Next Top

Jenna Intro

Zac

Model is having a moment. We thought it'd be a great opportunity to connect.

Noel

Okay, so tell us about your journey. What how did you get involved? What made you say, let's do this, and how'd you get started?

Jenna

So I actually had a lot of a start before America's Next Top Model. I um got kind of discovered at a pro scout type of thing when I was 16. And I did have a great mom that really lint leaned into like what I was interested in, and we'd get stopped all the time because there's this 5'10 girl who is a hundred pounds, not because I was trying to, is just I'm 16, like we barely weigh anything anyway. And I was a huge athlete, so I'm always running. Right. So it's hard. You see, this 5'10 person, this little skinny girl, we got stopped all the time. So I'm like, maybe I do want to do this. Yeah. And um, she took me to a pro scout, and so I got the most callbacks. They took me to Manhattan, I went to Ford, Wilhelmina, Next, Click, all of them. And uh the the consensus was if you want to be successful, we need to ship you to Turkey and you drop out of high school. Why Turkey? They said I'd be exotic there.

Zac

So I don't know. I want to pause and wind it back too, though. Uh, where did you grow up originally?

Jenna

I'm originally born and raised in Carthage, New York, and then we moved to the Utica area when I was 15. Okay. So my mom took me to the city and we got scouted, and I just didn't want to drop out of high school. Yeah.

Noel

Because you're also very bright. As a baby.

Jenna

And you're a baby also. As a bambi. Yeah. Um, I asked my mom to go with me. She said, no, this is your thing. If you want to do it, you're gonna do it and live with the models in the model house. Yeah. So I said, no, I'm gonna continue my education. I just thought like it was a bad idea not to stay in school.

Zac

That's actually really big.

Noel

Yeah, I was gonna say, because I feel like if you get this shiny little opportunity, I know. Like most people.

Zac

Listen, I know, I know me when I was at that that stage and everybody was telling me all the things they were telling me. Girl, I'd have been on the first damn plane. Absolutely. So that's really that's really cool. So you continue you finished high school and then you went into college, and what did you study?

Jenna

So I went to U Albany. That's what brought me down to this area. I was an athlete there as a runner, um, and I studied psychology, and I wanted to be a psychologist. And they kept scouting me more and more all through college, asked me to drop out. I'm like, all right, just let me get my bachelor's.

Noel

This is like the thing that you like just kept it kept coming up. You couldn't avoid it.

Zac

You couldn't outrun that.

Jenna

At this point, I'm taking pictures. I at this point I've been modeling, yeah, but not contracted by anyone in the city. Okay. And I got scouted by a couple scouts through America's next top model to like be on, and I said, let me just finish school. But then I went and got my master's at Maris College to be a therapist.

Zac

Oh, nice.

Jenna

Yeah. After that, and I finished that, they kept scouting me, and I'm like, literally, I'm old for you guys. Yeah. Which I wasn't. How old were you about? 24, 25. Okay. That's not old. Right. Like, I want to put that out there, but for modeling and starting, that's old.

Zac

Well, I mean, uh as somebody who just did their homework last night. Oh, in season one, there was there was a contestant who was 26 and they gave her a lot of food for being old. Yeah. So that's actually really interesting. And so can you take a what year was this?

Jenna

2013.

Zac

Okay.

Noel

So you're taking pictures, you're modeling, you're getting opportunities, but you're adamant about finishing school. How do you go from just a regular modeling journey

Regular Modeling to America's Next Top Model

Noel

to now America's next top model? How did that happen?

Jenna

At this point, I'm modeling. I've been in different magazines. I had been in Maxim. I've done all the things. Um, I'm like, what's there to lose? I can't give the excuse that I'm in school anymore. I'm gonna say yes to this guy that's been badgering me for three years. And so I went to New York City in more of like um a VIP fashion. VIP, there's a handful of us that kind of like got to get through the line, not the masses of people that are like plowing people over. Um, and we got to be on set. They asked you about 50,000 questions. They're really just searching for the best possible drama. The content for looking for the content. Yeah, yeah. I did a lot of interviewing and filming there, and it was just between, not between, it was just me and another fellow named Phil that made it out of the New York City round. Huh.

Zac

So you mentioned a fella named Phil. Uh, so you were on Cycle 20, which was the first season that allowed men on the show. Yes. Um, what was your initial reaction to that?

Jenna

Well, first of all, Phil was a homeless man at the time. Oh, wow. So like he he told the whole story, but he was homeless at the time. So again, this is just to like set the groundwork that you need to have a wild story. Sure. Right, for real in this in this venture. Um, but Phil was great. Uh, every guy that was on there was great. And I did know going into it that took away half the spots from moving forward because we're working with guys. Okay. Instead of having a full cast of girls, you know, we're all girls and guys.

Noel

Watching the documentary, it's not just a modeling show. It's not just a modeling competition. It's actually a story that they're looking for. They're looking for the drama, they're looking for interesting people. So, what do you think they picked up from you? Why do you think they wanted you besides the fact that you're obviously beautiful? Well, that's an obvious number. I mean, that it's not because you can't just be a good-looking person. There's plenty of models. They want somebody with an interesting background, like a home somebody who's homeless.

Jenna

You should see me without makeup. Um, okay, so I think that to be on any type of TV, you have to be willing to just be yourself outwardly with no restrictions. And I think for me, one, I've always been very outspoken. I've been very opinionated, and I have no problem saying things that might make other people uncomfortable at an expense of a joke. So for in my casting, there is this part where it was the end, I knew I made it to like near the final round of New York City, and they all they had to do was frame you. So they're framing you front frontwards to the side, and then they're also filming you. So from the side, they're filming me, but I thought they were taking a picture and I kept swallowing. And they're like, You really need to stop swallowing. I'm like, honey, I only swallow.

Zac

So and that sealed the deal. I'm on the show.

Noel

So you were the bold one. Your character was bold Jenna, and she says what's on her mind, and we need this girl.

Zac

I love that. So you're your cast. So uh you're cast on the show. How big, uh, how many contestants were uh episode one?

Jenna

Oh my god, there was a lot, actually. I don't remember off the top of my head, but I would say like 40 were there that

Jenna's Top Model Season, Cycle 20

Jenna

first couple of weeks.

Zac

Yeah.

Jenna

Yeah.

Zac

That's crazy. And then it was one of the same formats. So walk me through the format of like episode like a day in the life, episode one. What was that?

Jenna

So the daily life before, and they kind of touched on it on episode three. Um, you're there before filming for quite some time. You spend a week in a or an a week and a half in a hotel room by yourself. They take the phone out, they take your phone, your personal phone. Back then it was probably like a flip phone, um, dating myself. And you spend a week there doing tests, psychological tests. They want to make sure you're not gonna murder anyone, you know, make sure you're um not gonna be self-harmed to yourself or others if you get cut. And like a mental toughness test. They did physicals, make sure we didn't have STDs. We did everything for like a week and a half. And I just anytime I wasn't testing, I was in the hotel room being rationed food, one little chicken cutlet and a couple pieces of broccoli. Now, for me, that was not okay because I eat like a horse my whole life. I was by I was I would knock on my door and our little bodyguard would be out there because they're we're not allowed to be seen by anybody by the public before or contestants because they want first impressions to be on the show.

Zac

I find that really interesting that the psyche vowel happened after you were cast.

Jenna

That's true.

Zac

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, but do you is there anyone to your knowledge that was cut? No, I don't know. I just think that's crazy. Because I want you to be a little bit. So we want you to be on the show. Oh, let's also then check that you're crazy or not.

Noel

Um, let's lock the potentially crazy person in a room for a week. I know when they're gonna like what are they doing in the room?

Zac

You know, a week and a half of more foundation work, right? Day one, it's time to go downstairs and get in the van. What is that like?

Jenna

So we had to pack our fake carry-on to get off the fake plane. No way. It's fake.

unknown

Yeah.

Jenna

Well, they take us to an area and we just got off the plane, but it's like walking around the building of the hotel that we were staying at um and just having first impressions, and we come out and they're like, act surprise. And so that's how it all started on the first day. And we did a lot of interviewing um and started shooting right away and got right into our first runway show.

Noel

As this is all starting, right? You said you're in a hotel room alone by yourself for a while, you're being told to act surprised. Are you like, I'm glad I did this, or do you immediately start to have regrets? Like, what have you got to do? What's your head?

Jenna

That's a really good question. Because I just got my master's degree. I thought I was gonna be a therapist. There's the the side of me that's like, I'm kind of like off the cuff. But there's the side of me that I want to be a therapist and help people through their problems. And there's the side of me that's like, I want to make my own money and be in sales one day. So when that's all happening, I'm like, oh my God, if I do end up being a therapist, how will patients come to me and see me as serious or that they can like tell me their problems? They're like, who's this crazy lady? I just saw you on TV at the Not. So then I was scared to be like, if I am too crazy, if I'm to myself or I get in too many altercations, my patient, my future patients are gonna be like your professional reputation. Yeah, you're thinking long term. So I was thinking that a lot of the times when I was filming. Also, I'm now 25, and these girls, some of the guys are 17, 18, and that's a lot of years to live between 17 and 25. You think of a 25-year-old, they're a pup, but really I did live a whole college career, right? A master's degree. I was trying to be a doctor.

Speaker 4

Right.

Jenna

So the discrepancy of maturity also was a big factor because listen, honey, attention comes to me. I don't need to draw it. And a lot of those girls were like, look at me, very pick me in like the nicest way, but it was like they were trying to get the camera on that. It was performative. It was performative, and that's just not how I am. Yeah.

Zac

So how much of the show felt real versus produced?

How Real was America's Next Top Model

Noel

That's a good question, too, especially coming from a person who you say you like love being real.

Jenna

I will say it's not scripted. Um, I mean, they do have to create a scenario, they had to do the testing, so they have to fake a scenario. We're all coming in, but other than that, the the interactions between contestants, that's all very much real. The producers have a job to do with the 50-page questionnaire they ask you, with the interviews, they find which contestants are going to not sit well with each other. They find which contestants are controversial, they find the stories they need. Do they put someone that has been sheltered their whole life and not seen any um diversity in with someone who's grown up in Harlem, put them in a room together? Absolutely, they did that. But I remember Tyra really like hammering down on this girl that kind of grew up in the Midwest and asked her how she was faring. She's like, it's a little loud for me right now. And she's like, Loud because you're around people of color, they find a way. Right, right.

Zac

Well, at the end of the day, they they have a 12-episode order that they have to make, and they have to make a television show.

Noel

I mean, uh it has to be interesting if somebody's going to watch pinpointing people when they didn't need to be. So they create what they need to create. I mean, reliving the whole uh episode with Shandy in the hot tub. I mean, it was awful. And I don't know if you've had discussions with her or with other girls who were um kind of portrayed in a light like that. I mean, sounds like you didn't have that kind of experience. But um, how do you feel watching all of that back?

Jenna

Seeing it was just like enamoring. Um, seeing Shandy's season was enamoring, and at the time I was young enough to just think that they were fooling around and it was consensual. Right. As an older adult watching it back, it obviously was not, and it was just sad on my end to see how producers handled it and didn't protect her. And to your point earlier, it just that type of show and the way it's handled would not fly now.

Speaker 5

Yeah.

Jenna

Yeah. And then there was another episode where a model felt really uncomfortable being touched, and she was strong enough to advocate for herself where Shandy might not have been at that moment. Right, right, right. And she was like, pause right now, this guy's touching me. But she was dismissed. Dismissed. Yeah. I know. It's sad to see, but I will say, I think by the time I was on, I think some of the controversial things that they did wrong, they fixed.

Noel

So you were on Tyra was still the host. Yes. And watching the documentary, how does it compare to your experience?

Jenna

There's a lot of parallels. I'm the first one to admit I was on that forever. Um, one, they've touched on it before in the documentary in the last, in the last episode, where they push people through because they want that story, where there's many other girls that were far more model material. I thought my story was gonna be because it was unique that I'm older, that I had a master's degree, that I'm from a small town, that I stayed in college, that I worked through college, I found my own modeling career on my own without being signed. A lot of times I didn't want to be signed because they have complete control of your image, and I didn't want to have a shaved head, to be honest. And I don't want someone to tell me to shave my head.

Zac

Several people because at that point, when you're signed, you have there's a team, yeah, right?

Jenna

So I kind of just welded my way. I knew that I was kind of model material, not in like a a like a I'm the the girl, like I should have won. I don't think that at all. I think the girl that won my season, Jordan, was gorgeous. And I said to myself, either Jordan's gonna win this season or Sadie, um, which was another girl that got cut with me very early, but they're pushing a narrative. And it was said in episode three that they sent home girls that had more talent. There

Body Image Issues

Jenna

was other things that hit home like body image. I've dealt with body image stuff my whole life, more so from people projecting onto me than my own. But let's talk about that.

Noel

How what what was your because people look at you? I mean, gosh, I mean, Zach and I were joking, what the heck are we gonna wear to this interview? We have to sit next to Jenna. I wear hot girls eat possible. But like, I mean, to me or to any anybody with eyeballs, I mean, you're gorgeous. It's it's we all deal with our own, like, you know, imaging stuff and how we feel in our own skin and our own bodies. What did you struggle with? I think it's interesting to hear that even you struggled with body image issues.

Jenna

So I I've always been very tall and very skinny, but I was severely bullied at my first school about my body weight and being so tiny, they would make throw-up sounds when I walked by. And I didn't even know what like anorexia or bulimia was when they were doing it to me. I had to ask my mom. I'm like, why would they make puking noises when I walk by? Um, I would go to lunch and they're like, Are you even gonna eat that? You should double down and eat two cheeseburgs. I'm like, I will. I'll eat your. Well, I'm like, I'm eating everyone's lunch. Yeah, yeah. I just had and I was an athlete, so like I was turning and burning all the calories from just being active. And I if I had to go use the restroom, they would say, Oh, she's about to go puke. And I have a very strong-willed mother, and she just honed in, like, you don't listen to these people, you're perfect, and they are haters. Yeah. She said, 99% of the women you're gonna meet are gonna be haters, and you just have to be strong. And I'm like, Well, boys are doing it too, and she's like, and they're gonna eat their words and crawl right back in like your email one day. So I just leaned into what my mom said, focused on running, and I just felt empowered by my own body, empowered by my mother, and just kept it going.

Noel

How do you get to a place of empowerment after years of feeling just not comfortable in your own skin?

Jenna

Yeah, I just kind of owned it and I loved it and I love my body. And when I listened to my mom at a young age at that, that was now gone and out the window. This is who I am, this is how I how I own it. Love my body, love what it looks like. And I think that if you can't love yourself and your body, how are you gonna love anyone else particularly well now as a mom? Like I birthed two humans. Yeah, yeah.

Noel

I mean, for me, that was life-changing, confidence-wise, is listen, like I created two people. You want to come at me for like any way that I look or feel, because I struggled with my own body image issues as well, constantly being on camera and in news, and we we talked about this is you're never enough of something. Like you could feel good. You could feel good about yourself because there were times I looked at myself and I would be working in Florida, and having long blonde hair was like, great. And then I got a job in Philadelphia, and it was no, that doesn't work here. Cut it off on your own dime and dye it dark. Oh, but we don't like that. Change your look. And also send in pictures of us every single day about what you're wearing so that we can approve it before you come in. So not having control over your own image is definitely I mean, like, that's good for you for standing up for that because that's that's hard because you get opportunities.

Jenna

Listen, I'm not a pawn in anyone's life. I've just been this way my whole life.

Zac

I've just been strong-willed. I'm sure that's what made you different from a lot of the other contestants, right? For those who may have shown up and to, you know, your point may have been a little more performative. They were there for, they had a different agenda, right? Whereas you had already had a c a little bit of experience under your belt. You obviously had some uh maturity that not everybody had. So your journey was destined to be different one way or the other.

Jenna

That's a very good point because I felt as though they put you in those situations and they can easily manipulate the situations. For me, I cannot be easily manipulated. At all. Like, I can also read what you're trying to do. And so a lot of the interactions I've had with producers or Tyra, I would just call it out. I'm like, what do you mean by that? So you're trying to say what? And I would just question the status quo, or I'd call it out, and they for sure did not like that. It's really cool.

Noel

Like, no, this is what I love about you though, Jenna, is it's like you are like, don't mess with me. I'm smart. I have my master's degree. I was going to school to be a doctor. I have all of these degrees and I'm beautiful. And like, go ahead, try me. Yeah. And I feel like, I feel like that's awesome. And there's so many women who should feel that way about themselves. What about,

Working with Tyra. Jenna's Perspective

Noel

um, I'm dying to know about Tyra? Quick pause for a second. If you're a local business owner and you're listening to this podcast right now, there's a good chance your customers are too. Off-Track Saratoga is all about the people, places, and businesses that make this community what it is. And we're looking to partner with a small group of local sponsors who want to reach Saratoga listeners in a real authentic way. Podcast ads work because they're personal. They're read by us, talked about on the show, and heard by people who actually care about what's happening in this town. So if you'd like your business featured on Off-Track Saratoga, send us a message on Instagram or reach out through our page. We'd love to work with you. All right, let's get back to the episode. I'm dying to know about Tyra. Like, what was your interaction like with her? Because I feel like I got a very different vibe and perspective of her after watching the documentary than I did watching the show.

Zac

If not being held accountable and deflecting were an Olympic sport, Tyra would have a gold medal.

Jenna

Yeah. Oh, it's a good analogy.

Zac

I thought she gave us three hours of nothing but I rehearsed this in my mirror. And here's the thing. As somebody who I I have a low threshold for bullshit, I, baby, I sent I sensed it the set from the second she stepped on that um that we weren't going to really get anything out of her that she didn't want to talk about. Am I surprised? No. Am I disappointed? Sure. But at the same time, I knew going in that her perspective is just one perspective. Right, that's true. You know, so I thought it was important for them to have ever all, you know, contestants and other people there too, but I wanted her perspective.

Noel

That's my problem. Like I loved hearing from everybody else. I wanted more from her.

Zac

There was zero accountability, all deflecting, all in a trench coat. It was just not for me.

Jenna

Oh, and what are earth guys?

Zac

Listen.

Jenna

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think there is show Tyra and Tyra off-camera. Um like I said, I wasn't on the show the whole time. It was a quick stint. My quick stint, I saw her for a blip of that radar, but I did get interactions with her. Um, there is TV Tyra and there is off-camera Tyra. And um What's the difference between the two? I mean, Tyra in her own right, she pioneered modeling world, so I'm gonna give that to her. Um, I looked up to her when I was young. Yeah. But they are definitely what they say. She's a diva and she's deserved her diva ship. But hopefully she could be a person that's easy to work with. I can't speak to that, but I think you saw a glimpse of what that could have been. On camera, she had a job to instigate. Again, I can't be manipulated, so I kind of push back. And she was tough. You guys saw that in the documentary.

Zac

Those people have a job to do. You know, those people are reporting to a job. They have a job to do, they have an episode order to fill, yeah, they have ratings to achieve, you know, um, you know, advertisers to make happy. Yeah. Right? So it's a much more complex conversation. Yeah. But I wanted, and what I think I got out of the documentary, not fully, but I got moments of I want where's the humanity in it all, right? Where is the human connection? Where is the human disconnection? And where is the human experience?

Noel

Well, it was from the contestants, and I got some from the Jays. I did get it from her.

Jenna

Of course, and I felt like Jay Manuel was like, Yep, I did that. Yeah, it was just like some ownership, just ownership, and then just being like, that wasn't right, where she was shit not do that. No, no, she did not do that.

Noel

No. Um, and in fact, to that point, you were saying at the very end of the final episode in that short series.

Zac

What did she say again? I said, and then this has the nerve to say, I can't wait for y'all to see what we have in store for cycle 25.

Jenna

And everyone's like, What?

Zac

Listen, Tyra, Tyra, I'm tired, girl. My millennial bones are tired. Uh, I don't know if I have it in me. I'm gonna be honest.

Noel

Do you think either? I'm curious because I don't know if it would. I mean, I probably would because I have the history with the show, but do you think that this show could exist in today's world? If they brought me back. Are you Tyra?

Jenna

Are you a judge, or are you all they're gonna be, they're gonna do a geriatric season?

Speaker 4

I'll be part of that.

Zac

Hell yeah. See, I think something like that, even in just the tease of uh cycle 25, the thought of that, it it it can't be the same show that it was.

Noel

No.

Zac

We are in such a different place as as a society. Um, and I think there are a lot more girls out there like you than they would care. Yes, than they would care to admit.

Noel

I think there are more empowered women who know how to say no, who know how to speak their mind, who, you know, because the next generation of moms is more like your mom, the Gen Z girls who are like more outward with what they have to say.

Jenna

And like the 16-year-olds on those shows back then were very much taken advantage of. Yeah. And I think the 16-year-olds now are less likely to. Maybe I'm giving them a lot of credit, but I think they are.

Rules for Contestants on Top Model

Zac

So, what uh would be some interesting rules that you guys had to follow that you know that the audience is unaware of?

Jenna

Oh, yeah. So when we get there and we're locked away eating our one little ration of half chicken, we are known as our first initial and our last initial. So I was JC because I was not married yet. Um, Jenna Clark, but they had to call you JC, and everyone was called that. It was code so we couldn't figure out who was who, who was going where, and then they'd be like JC on the move. Um interesting to communicate to make sure we didn't see a glimpse of any other contestant. Well, they didn't want you guys seeing each other either until you lived together. No interactions, no seeing. And if you passed anyone on the street in LA, they you would have to say that you're part of a craft macaroni and cheese commercial. And I'm like, that's can we come up with something better?

Speaker

Like, that's like wildly specific. I know it's gonna say it's wildly specific. And I won't forget it and not glamorous.

Jenna

So, like, what the filming a craft macaroni and cheese commercial? I don't think I've ever seen a craft macaroni and cheese commercial either.

Zac

So I'm b boggled. That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

Jenna

Save everything for camera.

Zac

Yeah.

Jenna

Like I found out about Jordan, like I would have never, the girl who won, that she was divorced by 18. Oh my gosh. And her husband and her, I think he was abusive. There was Marvin, and I learned that he lived with rats, and his dad was a janitor, and there's like seven or six brothers in a one-bedroom apartment. So, like, you get to know these people on the camera. The rule was always on the camera.

Noel

Do you still have friends from working on the show, or do you still stay in touch with the people that you worked with on the show?

Jenna

So I talked to at

Keeping in Touch with Castmates

Jenna

random times the person that I got paired up with to walk down the runway with. His name's Mike. He was in he was discovered by Tyra. He was handing out ice cream on his ice cream truck. Oh wow.

Zac

Was it hot ice cream?

Jenna

He was hot, but like the ice cream was cold. Not as hot as my husband, obviously. Um, but I when I so we had to pick out which guy we walked down the aisle with. We're all in masks on the masquerade for a masquerade ball. And I just remember it being like, okay, don't pick that guy. I look like a wildebeest next to that kid. And then oh, I need someone really tall because I'm 5'10 and I've got six-inch heels on, I'm at least six five right now. So I just was like, okay, tallest guy. And it was Mike and best pick of my life. He was so nice. I was nervous to because we had to kiss him at the end of the runway. I was so nervous because I just started dating my now husband. I'm like, is he gonna kill me?

Zac

Oh my god.

Jenna

How did he feel about that?

Noel

Actually, in general, how does your husband feel about this whole

Jenna's Husband's take on Top Model

Noel

experience? Did he ride, did he live this with you?

Jenna

Or like Yeah. He just started, we just started dating. So I think we had been dating for four months, and I think that he thought I was never coming back home. Like I was I was off to be a famous person.

Zac

There she goes.

Jenna

But here look at me, here I am. Um, so no, yeah, he picked me up from the airport. He's always been supportive, but he's also a professional athlete. Uh, he played professional lacrosse for 10 years in the league, retired. So we've just supported each other through our ventures of modeling and professional play, and now we're married, we have two children, but yeah, we wrote it together. And I think that to your question about the modeling stuff, I think we both forget I did it until like the topic gets brought up. Like, if we're honestly, I've been here.

Zac

The same can be said for me, like anytime somebody refers to or something pops up about you know, shows and stuff that I've done. And it seems like a lifetime show. Yeah, and you really do forget about that part of your life.

Jenna

And then I'll talk about I'm like, oh yeah, I did do this. And I think he and I do the same thing. Do I hope that, like, oh yeah, I married a model is on the back of his mind all the time? It better be.

Noel

Listen, remember.

Zac

Like at any point on the show, was uh were you given any advice or critiques

Helpful Critiques

Zac

from any of the judges that actually helped you?

Jenna

I did get good critiques. Um, it's the critiques I've gotten before. So, like I said, I had modeled a little bit before. Um, my critiques have always been you are of the right weight, but your rate, your weight's not the right look. So, like, you need to be skinny skinny, not athletic skinny. So, like, I fit the clothes, but I'm like I was a division one runner. Like I had strong legs. Yeah. And I by all means, I wasn't a weightlifter. So it's not like I was like had these bulky thighs. Right. I think I had to everybody else in the world, I was just a fit person. So like my feedback was always, and before the show, you gotta stop the sports. You gotta, you gotta just do Pilates and yoga. You have to make these muscles skinny muscles. How did that feel? I I just love I'm such a tomboy. Yeah. And I just have always played sports. Uh, my dad wouldn't let me play softball. I had to play fast pitch. I was a volleyball player. That's how I recently tore my ACL, and I was a runner, and I would never give that up.

Noel

I think what's so admirable about this whole experience that I'm hearing from you is like you did modeling, you did top model, you did all these things, you you had this chapter of your life, but you never gave up like these core things that really mattered to you, like finishing school, making sure that, like, hey, when I'm not gonna be modeling anymore, there's something there for me. Um, not giving up the fact that you love sports. Hey, like if I'm too muscular, this is who I am. Like, I am an athlete. So kudos to you. That's pretty awesome. And I'm I was used to hearing that.

Jenna

And thank you. Yeah, um, of course. I was very much used to hearing that. I heard it in New York City, I heard it from people I'd wear their clothes and photo shoots and stuff. Never bothered me. I'm like, well, I know I look good. Like I I know I was but like runners are fit, like and they're lean, their muscles are lean. So like I already knew like I was of a good situation. And then the other feedback is that I have very much a look for a male gaze, which um puts you in a box in their opinions. Um, and I'm like, and and they would tell me, like, you don't try to get the male gaze, it's just your look. So we can't take that, we can't coach you on that. That's just what you have. They were like, if women can't relate to you or see themselves in you, they're the ones that are consuming. And so they said, What do you how far can you go being for the male gaze? What am I gonna just do male magazines?

Noel

Like it's so bizarre to me that like someone who is so beautiful is just not an like you had to be picked apart, and and it's just weird. It's so bizarre to me, which is why I don't think the show would fly in today's day and age.

Zac

Yeah, I mean it's the main reason why I never did the show.

Noel

You got the height, you got the height.

Zac

How many episodes uh was your run and what was the challenge that got you eliminated?

Jenna

So I was on two episodes and I just didn't make it past the the first preliminary to get into the house. Oh, okay. Yeah. Listen, I didn't have that story. I was working with a lot of characters, and I feel I've talked about this with other people, and maybe they're biased because they're my friends, but I know people that are like not my closest friends. I had a tough season because there was just a it was just a gaggle of characters. Yeah. And so that, and then half the spots are going to males.

Zac

Yeah, I mean, and then you have that it was a different show. It's a different show, it was a different show.

Noel

A completely different show. As you're watching the documentary, a lot of people are messaging you and you're kind of like posting

Social Media Top Model Intrigue

Noel

on social media, like, yup, that's spot on. Nope, that didn't happen. Like you're giving your live commentary, if you will, and you opened it up to questions. Yep. I did. What were some of the interesting questions that you got? And there was like one or two that you were like, I'm gonna save that for the pod.

Jenna

I was actually surprised by how many questions I got because I'm just I was just surprised. People are very interested. But do you think people knew, like who know you now that you were on the show? I think my friends knew. I think that some Saratoga women know just because, like, I feel like you knew. Yeah. And like some of the clan that we've been involved with, they but outside of that, maybe some didn't. Yeah. Um, or previous followers. I think that I hit this is so this might be like taking it on a left-hand turn. I also think that I went on that show just shy of a perfect time to be an influencer. Because it it was just invented.

Zac

It's true. I mean, you said 2013, right? Yeah, 2012. I started my Instagram. So it's like three months before I went on the show. So that's that's actually very true. Because that's a whole that's a whole um sub-industry.

Noel

It's producing your own reality show about yourself, so you have control, if you will. But yeah.

Jenna

So I hit that at a wrong time too. Um, but I was just surprised with how many questions people are very curious. People a lot of people I didn't know. I'm like, man, I have followers I don't even know about. But the they have great questions, and it I think a lot of it was touching on they really wanted to know about Tyra. They really wanted to know about body image, and we've kind of touched on that, and they wanted to know why I got kicked off, and I feel like we've touched on that. Um, and if I agreed, of course I do not agree. Like, give me the trophy, yeah, and the flowers, and if there's a money stipend, I'll take that too. Like, give me it all. So, um, do I feel like it was unfair? No, no, like again, we've said that maybe we've said it at nauseam, it's a TV show, right? And I just was happy to have even been there. Do you think your life would have been any different if you did

Would Jenna's life have been different if she won?

Jenna

win it? Based upon that Netflix series, no. I think I'd be exactly where I am now, and I think I've did more on my own accord than because of the show. Like the show didn't open doors. I feel like even after the show, everything I I pulled myself into, I did myself.

Zac

What was the immediate like 24 hours after being

Life After Top Model for Jenna

Zac

eliminated?

Jenna

When I finally got home, my now husband picked me up from the airport. I even think that his parents were with him, which was very wholesome. Um went back to Saratoga because he lived here. I didn't I didn't live here yet. And he we just hung out on Phyllis Street, to be honest. We used to go to Seven Horse. Do you remember Seven Horse? No, I don't remember Seven Horse. You were definitely not here. Seven Horses is where it's at. Where were Seven Horse? Saratogas know all about Seven Horse. It's that now Noah's. Oh and they'd always win Chowder Fest, they had the best chowder, and so I just crushed Chowder after the show, okay? I love it. So I quit my job to be on that show, and at I quit being a bank teller. So my mom was very much like, you're not gonna get a waste of a job when you're a kid. You're going to do something that will look good on your resume. We're not gonna waste our times here again.

Zac

Consistent.

Jenna

Figure it out. So I was just finished my master's, I moved home. I worked at a bank because I I had to get my practicum hours to become a licensed therapist. So I passed the time being a bank teller, which got me through college. Quit that to be on the show, and I came back and they didn't want to take me back. So I it was in between jobs. I'm like, okay, I don't think I want to be a therapist, I want to make more money. So I found waitressing jobs at Delmonico's as a waitress. I was in the service industry for a while. I was also bartender in college. Um, so I knew that that would be something that could hold me over till I found my real job. So eventually, about two months post-show, I got a job at ADP and I sold payroll to small businesses.

Zac

I'm big as you're familiar with ADP.

Jenna

I could probably still sling the sh out of ADP.

Zac

Let me tell you, girl, I had a standing uh phone call with ADP uh a number of times in my career because I would listen, listen. Anytime I had to process the payrolls, I was like, hang on, let me get somebody on this helpline real quick.

Speaker 4

You needed to be a good one.

Zac

You need a delivery platform called Run. Yeah. Just plug in those numbers, hit submit. That's wild.

Jenna

So you got into sales and you were like, hmm, this feels pretty good. It was more for me. Yeah. I'm in control of my own destiny. I'm my own boss. I have you can control how much you make. Like if you want to hustle, you hustle, you make your money. If you don't want to hustle, you're not gonna make your money. And I just felt like that's perfect for me. And with my psychology background, working with business owners, really getting to what they need, their personalities, I knew how to get a deal.

Speaker 4

Yeah.

Jenna

So it was, and then they tell me all their problems and they tell me everything about their workers' comp and then they tell me about Susie next door and their wife and their husband and this, that, and the other.

Noel

So it would have been a great reporter then. I had that too. And they tell you everything. Oh my gosh. Like, I could have a set of headphones in my ears, and somebody's like, excuse me, let me tell you my entire life story, which is, I mean, sometimes it's a real gift.

Jenna

It is a gift. My gift is my hype. People asked me to get the cans off the top shelf. So I just knew I wanted to evolve

Jenna's Career Today

Jenna

the sales and I wanted to eat in medical device. So I sold in the OR for 10 years, and now I sell something more aesthetically fun. I sell Botox and filler.

Noel

That's kind of a great marriage of like all of your skills, if you will, because you were, you know, involved in fashion and beauty, and now you're using the other part of your skill set and selling and so it's selling was which is so my personality.

Jenna

Yeah. And then, like, you know, it's just a pretty industry. And I do want I did say to make it simple for the layman, Botox and Filler, but my company sells something called Daxify.

Zac

I know Daxify.

Noel

To women who are now re-watching this show with a new lens from a new perspective, and kind of almost like having those feelings resurface of I'm not enough, or oh wow, that's uncomfortable, because maybe they didn't feel that way back then, but they do now. I mean, what what do you hope they get out of it, or do you have a message for them?

Jenna

That's a good question. I felt like I don't, and I don't know if you guys saw it, but there's some of those women that had really gone through it. And you could see it in their story, they looked so healed despite having no uh ownership from people that were involved, such as Tyra. And I think that maturity, time, and really diving into yourself, because I don't know if you also saw that everyone was like focused on themselves and how they because they knew that America's next model wasn't gonna open any doors. And I think they just became introspective. And I think the biggest part about confidence is being introspective and having faith in yourself and believing in yourself. I just feel like

Confidence from within: Jenna's Advice on Building Self Esteem for Women

Jenna

confidence comes from within, and being introspective is very important, and just believing in yourself and just loving yourself because I just feel like there's no one else there like you.

Zac

Yep.

Jenna

And not judging yourself by others.

Noel

To somebody who says, Yeah, I want to be confident. I want to be more like a Jenna or somebody who can search within themselves, dig deep, and feel, you know, really great about themselves to somebody who's struggling with that. What's like a first step for them, you think?

Jenna

I think a first step is really looking in the mirror and finding something that you love about yourself that day and saying it out loud. Maybe even writing it down if you're a journaling type of person. Or if you're feeling really down and out about yourself, thinking back to when you're a kid and struggling and holding that kid's hand in that moment. Like I was a kid once, and they'd be proud of me right now. And I think that's a first step because that's a step into being introspective and really believing in yourself because it has to come from you. And you're not gonna get validation that means anything from anyone else. You're gonna get it from yourself. I love that.

Noel

I I just leave it there. That's that that's that's great. I can't wait to see what else you do, Jenna, around here. Like, I hang out with my kids. I think you're saying most same. So we're gonna go. Can you please open a bar where like there's also like a place where the kids children? And he's gonna be like, no, we would be First customers. I do not get out a lot. No. And neither do I. There's people that get out so much. I'm like, how do you do it? How do you do it? Because I'm either like in the thick of like whatever sport of the season it is, or I'm, you know, leaning into your family. Leaning, or or I'm leaning into my family. And uh, I don't know how you have time for anything else. You gotta have some good babysitters. People are out a lot.

Zac

My last question for you, Jenna, um, selfishly. If the producers called you tomorrow

Would Jenna do an All Star Season of Top Model?

Zac

for either an all-star season or a reunion, would you accept?

Jenna

I would accept, but I also think I'm not as relevant as some of the other girls.

Noel

I disagree. I disagree too. Maybe we are biased, but but yes, I absolutely would. Cool. All right. Well, maybe we'll get to see that. Uh if you haven't caught it, probably check out that show so you can hear all about what we're talking about. It's on Netflix.

Zac

Reality check.

Noel

Reality check.

Zac

America's next top model.

Noel

Right. So um, yeah, I mean, if you want to hear everything that we're talking about, obviously go there. Um, and then thank you so much just for listening. Jenna, thank you so much for being here.

Zac

Jenna, where can our where can our uh listeners find you?

Jenna

Oh, I'm on Instagram. What's your handle? Jenna Rochelle. There we go. I'm also on TikTok, which is very unwell. So don't judge me there. You can also find me at Bocaj.

Speaker

Yeah, you can find me at Bocal.

Jenna

If I'm not at Bocage, I'm getting my hair done at Laloom.

Zac

Yes, Laloom! Shop. By Shannon and Meg. That's our show today. That's our show.

Noel

Thank you so much for joining us. Um, we are still in the first few episodes of this show. So if you would like to hear about something, be sure to send us a message on Instagram. We're dying to know. This is a community effort about everything that you want to hear about.

Zac

Give us a like, give us a share. You can find us on Instagram at off track talk. Thank you so much, and we look forward to seeing you again next week.

Speaker 4

Bye, everybody. Bye.