"We've got her back" - What one teacher's research (and her daughter) taught her about leaving the system

What happens when the person who believed in the school system the most - the one who led it, shaped it, gave her career to it - becomes a mother and starts to see everything through a completely different lens?

This week I'm joined by Charlotte Linde. Former teacher. Former Head of School. Worked internationally across New Zealand, Asia, and South Africa. Now living in regional NSW, homeschooling her two daughters, and completing her doctorate in education - researching something that barely exists in the literature yet: what happens when teachers leave the system and choose to home-educate their own children.

But this isn't an academic episode. It's a human one.

Charlotte watched her older daughter slowly deteriorate inside a private school - the light going out of her eyes, eczema appearing on her hands from stress, tears at drop-off. She felt guilt. She felt anger. She felt the full weight of having chosen the school that was breaking her child.

And then she drew the line.

This episode is about what happened next. The deschooling. The healing. The morning she heard her daughter walking down the hallway, singing - and knew: we got her back.

We go into:

→ Charlotte's research and what the push-pull framework tells us about why teachers are leaving - and why it sounds exactly like what so many parents are already feeling
→ Why being a trained teacher can actually be a disadvantage when you start home learning - and why that's good news for every parent who isn't one
→ What deschooling actually looks like in real life (hint: it starts with coffee and a caramel slice, not curriculum)
→ Why Charlotte refuses to use the word "homeschooling" - and what changed when she stopped
→ The apology she gave her daughters - and why taking ownership was part of the healing
→ What real socialisation looks like when your children are living in the world instead of sitting in it
→ The moment her 13-year-old - who never used to raise her hand in class - told an adult: "I feel uncomfortable with that. I'm not going to do that."
→ Why the nervous system deems the familiar as safe, even when it's harmful - and what it actually takes to step out

→ Her youngest daughter completing Year 1 maths while laughing. A full year ahead. One-on-one. No pressure.
→ And why a Year 12 certificate and university might be worth questioning as the default endpoint for your child's life

Charlotte also said something early in this conversation that I've been thinking about ever since:

"I enjoy Sundays now. Because I know Monday isn't coming."

That was her daughter. Thirteen years old.

If you've ever had the feeling that something isn't right - for your child, for your family, for the life you're living - this episode is for you. Charlotte gives you the research, the lived experience, and the evidence that it is possible.

You can get your child back. You can get yourself back. And you don't have to have it all figured out to begin.

You can find Charlotte and her label on instagram : @zenandthen_thelabel

Did something in this episode land for you? I'd love to know. Send me a DM on Instagram @allyyblanch_ and tell me the moment that hit.

⭐ If this conversation meant something to you - leave a rating and review. It takes 30 seconds and it's how other parents find us when they're searching for exactly this. Every review helps us reach the mother who needs to hear it.

📲 And if you know someone who needs this episode - send it to her. That's how this message spreads.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Parent Educator podcast. Today I have a guest with us, which I am so excited about. Today's guest is Charlotte, and I've genuinely been so excited about this conversation. Charlotte and I found each other on Instagram and instantly connected with not only our backgrounds but what we've been through in the system, but just our story, the identity piece, and we're going to go into that today. So Charlotte is a former teacher herself, and the she was a head of school who worked internationally, which is incredible. So she's worked across New Zealand, Asia, South Africa, where she's from as well. And now she's here in Australia. She is a homeschooling mama of two girls and is currently, which is really cool, what we're going into going today. She's currently completing her doctorate in education. So she's researching something that barely exists in literature yet. And it's the intersection of teachers who leave the system and then choose to home educate their own children. So, in other words, she's studying this not from the outside, like she's actually living it. She's living it herself. And she has the kind of academic background and lived experience that I think is going to give a lot of our listeners today and our community, you know, the permission to trust. The permission to trust what they've already been feeling. So, Charlotte, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Before we get into it, I'm so excited. And just hearing that, yeah, absolutely. That permission to trust, I think, is such a beautiful way of, you know, saying it. Um, and I'm just so excited to share my lived experience and and also a little bit about what I have already found, you know, in the limited literature available on this topic.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, I'm I'm so excited to get into that for myself as well. So before we get into it though, I'd love for you to introduce yourself in your own words, you know, not the um academic version, the real version, like who are you, where are you now, and what does life like look like for you right now?

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Yeah, I mean, you you you did say, you know, that I am uh um an ex-teacher, um, that I've worked across really different in early childhood, in tertiary education, and across the world. But this stage of my life is, I think as soon as you hit the 40s or so, you had a little bit of a different um, you get a view, different view to life. Um, but have chosen to homeschool my girls, and it's just been such a a beautiful experience. Um, this is not the first time that I have homeschooled them. Um, we've we've done it in 2023 when we lived abroad in in Asia. Um, and it's just something that has really aligned with our family. Um, also just quickly, when I was in in high school, um, I remember just having this feeling, but obviously I didn't have the words yet. I was 16 years old, but I had this feeling of this is not for me. I remember going home and saying to my dad, this was my exact, this was my exact words. I feel like my brain is dying. I can't be in that space anymore. And that was as a young child, you know. And then I I homeschooled the last um year of my high school, which was essentially two years that I did in one, because my peers still completed, if you want to call it, year 12, the year after. And then I went to university. But I, because homeschool gave me that opportunity, I had still had to go sit in those days in South Africa. The formal last year of high school was a formal exam by the government. I still had to go do that. But I essentially studied for a whole year by myself, doing two years in one, sat that exam, passed it, and went to uni the next year when my Ph still was in school. Um, so it's come a long way for me that I've had these feelings of there must be something else. This, this is the yeah, this is not exactly for me and and what I want. Um yeah, I mean, my girls they've experienced both. They have been in school, they've been in international schools, and then they've they've homeschooled.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Gosh, there's so much with that. I the piece that you said um around the feeling that you even had as a child, but didn't have the words for it, right? I think so many can resonate with that, and you know, how we'll talk about soon how that leads into identity as not only like um in our adolescence and into like relationship and all the pieces there, but I I don't think that's spoken about enough, too, of like the children or adolescents not even having the words to describe, you know, the misalignment or the feeling of something not being right, and how how big that is now as adults, you know, going through identity shifts to not only be able to try and articulate that in a world that it's just kind of 100%.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

And I and I think also, you know, even I mean, in South Africa, many years ago, that my parents said yes, we had from the outside world, I mean, the criticism we received. You can just imagine, like even in today where there's such a massive movement in Australia and across the world towards homeschooling, but for my parents, they said yes. And I think that is that that what you have spoken about is trust yourself, yeah, you know, listen to that voice, listen to your child and support the decision that aligns with you, not what the outside world says or what the norm looks like or the system because it's always been done like that. If you feel that dug inside your heart, there is a pathway. There can be something else for you and your family.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, yeah, I think that's so important. And like you said, it would have been such a challenge for your parents at that time because it was so against the grain, you know. But to be able to lean into that self-trust of listening to your child, not only what's feeling right. Yeah, I that's huge. That's huge. Um, I have a few I have so so many wet um different ways I want to go with this, but let's go, let's go back to because this is where our story kind of resonates. You were you were the head of a school yourself, you were a teacher, like that's not no small role, and you were someone who you know deeply believed, I guess, in the education roles, the system at a time, or at least committed to it. Um, my question is what did that version of you think about education at that time?

SPEAKER_03 6:39

To be honest, in all the roles that I've ever had as a teacher or in leadership, for me, the the support part of children and and staff has always been key. Um, I've always felt like there's a bigger purpose to this is a job, but there is a purpose. And my purpose I've always felt has been in the space of support, understanding, guidance, um, for, as I said, for staff and children. Um, working within the system, you notice, you notice because you're in it. Um, but it's again that whole thing of it's always been done like this. And when you sometimes push back, there is a massive pushback. And if I now I link it to the literature, it is across the world that teachers feel that they feel that the curriculum design doesn't align with how they want to teach or how they have to implement it doesn't align with their values, or there's so many things within the system that that I struggled with myself, but I was in it, yeah, and this was my job. Um, this was our finances, you know. So you you keep of it, but it's that continuous conflict that I had to vent myself. Um that I just knew this wasn't for me. But then I tried to say to myself, how can I still make a meaningful impact and difference while I'm there?

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yes, yes, huge. And the the part that you said, like being in there, and it's the only way, it's the only kind of the only way you know, right? And you're seeing everyone else doing it, so you don't really question it. Like your environment is so important, right? We talk about that so much of like, well, if everyone else doesn't seem like to be questioning it because it's too much of a pushback, then like what am I doing again?

SPEAKER_03 8:23

Like, this is huge for me to question something that yes, but I think the more for me as I was parenting, and the more because I've been now studying this is my sixth year, literally, my my um second daughter's whole entire life. I've been doing um my my study, you know, after my bachelor, and the more I was doing that and the more I was leaning into it, I just realized, you know, what I'm feeling and what is in the literature aligns with me. And I can't see myself continuously being in this space and not speaking up. But for a very long time, I actually didn't because I was like, You're a teacher, Charlotte, like this is what you do. Um, and yes, we are gonna get to that identity shift piece, but you really have to be bold and you have to say, This is this, I I love education, but the system and what that looks like does not align with me anymore. I don't want to be in it and I don't want to be um continuously feeling that disconnect with myself, my values, my belief, not only what I want for myself as a teacher, but I want for my children. I just I can't.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah, huge. Exactly what you said. There's there's this need to be bold and have courage, even if you haven't seen it done before, you don't have evidence of how it's going to work out because there's a knowing like, yes, I value education, but not in this way. And I guess with that, what what was the piece for you or the moment for you? Was there a significant moment where things really started to feel off, not just like in your research, but as a mother? I know you mentioned then like as a mother, when was the moment when you were like, This this isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 10:07

Oh, 100%. Um, you know, it was last year when my when my my child was in a in a private school, because you think this is a good choice. There's many things that aligns with what we want for her and the opportunities. And as the months went on and with significant events happening within that school that was detrimental to my child, not only her emotional well-being, but her physical body. Literally, she got eczema on her hands because of the stress and the toll it took on her, and then the the journey we journeyed with her, with the school. It was this is the this is this this is where I draw the line. This is this has come too far for me with my own experience, and now what my child is experiencing, and the light in her eyes was dimming as the days would progress. And that broke me. And it, I think for our family, that was it, it just brought us to our knees that we realized, you know what, this this is not worth it for us. This is not worth it for us. Um, and things need to change significantly, and we are still dealing, this is a year later, with the effects of that, supporting her through it, and myself, because if I'm very honest, I have had feelings of anger, of resentment against the system, the mindset, the oh, but what do you mean that's not okay? Or what do you mean a teacher can't speak to a child like that? Or just all of that. And I'm saying it today, I'm I'm being bold of it, but this is our reality. And I I know for a fact from my lived experience and what I speak to with parents and research, many people are going through this on a daily basis, that they see literally their children losing their desire to learn, to get up in the morning, um, their happiness, their joy, they just they they lose it. And I saw that happen to my child, and that was not that was our pivotal moment of this is we're finished.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Yeah, yeah. I I just have flashbacks of so many experiences seeing that with children and you know, seeing the shift in your tonality and body language as soon as you were remembering that within your daughter. I I I need to go further with this, Charlotte, because I think so many parents have similar experiences with their children, whether even if it's whether like daycare or preschool drop-off or it's it's this push pull, which I know you've you've mentioned as well, but this this push of like okay, well, this this doesn't feel right. Like, why why is my child having a meltdown before school? Why are they having meltdowns after school? Why are they like having these physical symptoms and losing like exactly what you said, their spark? But yet again, environment, well, this is all we know, this is what everyone else, like not being able to see that there's another way and just keep continuing to push and force and you know, causing so much anger and frustration and guilt and like grief within the parent of like, what am I doing wrong? Is there another way? It doesn't feel like there's another way. Like, what would you say on your experience, like being bold and seeing that within your daughter, and knowing that like there's there really is no other option?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

Well, you know, I I think as a family, it is to come together, that's the first thing, and just really say this does not align with us. And we had to go through a massive process that was extremely stressful, but I knew I had we had to do this for the benefit of my child, for the for her emotional well-being, and and for our family. Because if we think back to how we sometimes still talk about it, how stressful mornings was like even if you tried to prepare, which we did, like I would after a morning just hop in my car and sit and go, What has just happened? Like it it feels like a bomb has gone off. Yeah, and then the day has only started. How many mornings I cried dropping my children off, you know, the stress associated with it because you think this is what we need to do, this is the best for them, just stick it out, you know. You you just go through all of those things. Um, and if I look at our lives now and I wish these people that are still in the situation, I can show them this. How like I sometimes still pinch myself to wake up cuddling my little one, we chat away, talk, and she's like, Mommy, this is my favorite um start to the day because she is calm. My daughter's day are calm. I get up, we have a coffee, we talk, we sit outside, you know, we gradually ease into it. It is so completely different to the stress not only I felt, but they felt. Um, you know, the entire environment is completely different for all of us. And the absolute positive um challenges that might it's made for us as a family is significant. Honestly, it is significant. And if I even just can touch on one part of academic learning, which I know is such a big thing for many, for many families. How much how is how are they going to learn maths? Or how are they how am I gonna do this? I'm not a teacher. This morning I was doing maths with my um, she's turning six, so she's supposed to be in kindergarten this year, and we've just finished term three, year one, maths, today. And we've done it laughing, like she was laughing. She made a mistake of writing one of the numbers the wrong way. And it's done in such a playful. I just want to talk about the academic because it's such a small part, really. Right. But I know it is a big piece for many parents. So she's she's a whole year ahead with her maths. It's that one-on-one attention, it's done at a slow pace, key concepts that I feel she doesn't know, we move back to, other ones we're finished with. It's just the stress is immediately lifted when you really lean into it. Um, not only for you as a family, but for your children. And you just see it. Like if I think about evenings, you know what my my child, my older daughter says to me, Mommy, I enjoy Sundays now because I know Monday is not coming. I feel so relaxed Sunday because I know Monday is not coming. And you know, Sunday evening, sometimes still six, seven o'clock, they'll say, Oh, can we start this art thing? And I'm like, go for it. And they start it because we don't have that stress of you have to go to bed, you have to shower now, you have to eat your dinner, where is your lunchbox, where is your because we don't have that stress. And it's significant when you've left the other side and now this is your life. You you truly see it because you feel it in your nervous system. You feel it, your children, they feel it. Um, so that's quite powerful. You know, we enjoy Sundays because Monday is not coming.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Huge, huge. And I remember that shift in my nervous system myself of so much of what I used to talk about was like the Sunday dread, like as a as a parent, as a working parent. And how many of us, you know, go through life thinking it's just the way it has to be, whether that's a job, whether that's kids in school, whether it's, you know, the career that we think we have to stick to. It's like if you feel Sunday dread, if you're dreading the week coming, there's something there for you to look at. There's something for you to question. And I think what you mentioned about, you know, the the slow mornings, I think so many people think they look at like, you know, us and go, that's not possible for me. Yes, that took sacrifice, yes, that took like taking the leap, like bold courage, like you said. But the the reward on the other side, like it's it, you you can't you can't compare it because it is. It's the shift in your nervous system, it's the shift in your children co-regulating from you, and what is possible when you're operating from there. It's like the academics just come. Like I talk about it's not it's the real world learning of being in co-regulation with a family, right? It's like it's it is so much easier than what our limited story is.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

The life skills my children are learning, you know. My husband is working. I am still, I'm doing working for university, I'm doing my job. There's so many bits and bobs going on. But we teach them that and say, mommy's going to the office now for an hour or whatever. You know, we we're teaching them living in a society. What does it look like living in our household? What is it, you know, now you've got say your netball practice, or it's not that you're isolated and the world stops and nothing else can carry on, or you can't work, or you can't um pursue your passions. It's it is that, and it's demonstrating to them how do we do that? How do we respect our space? You know, I know for a lot of families this is how am I gonna be with my children all the time? How am I gonna drink a coffee? I always laugh. My oldest daughter says, You do it, and you say you're gonna do it. And it really is that easy. Hey guys, I'm gonna go and make some coffee and sit by myself for a little bit. Cool. Everybody's gonna survive. Um, and it's just teaching them those those things, and it's it's been awesome for us, honestly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

I I think so many more parents need to hear that, and that's like we could talk about this this whole time because it is what you can create and it's your own rhythm, and it really is, it's so much easier than what you your your stories tell you. It's just when you that is powerful, yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Your your stories tell you because it's the norm, it's what's always good. Uh, if I think about my children, they make their breakfast themselves, you know, lunch, everything is just there is such a flow now because, like you say, you can create it. Will it take time? Absolutely, especially if children are not used to a more flexible lifestyle or used to getting up when their body's ready, going to sleep a little bit later. Those are all shifts, yeah, but it's all possible. Um, as soon as we open our minds to it and open our hearts to it and go, what I'm doing now, it's not working for our family. So am I going to stick to it because that's all I've known? Or am I actually gonna go, you know what? No, I don't want this for my family, I don't want this for my children. I'm gonna put in the hard yards, and I can tell you now, you will reap the benefits.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Absolutely. Before I go into your research, I want to speak a little bit into because you said your daughter was in school and you noticed, you know, the physical responses, the emotional responses. How, because I work with quite a few parents who are either choosing to potentially pull their children from school or have pulled their children from school. How how would you describe or how is your experience around the de-schooling experience to be able to feel comfortable in this new rhythm that you were creating? What was that like for you and your daughter?

SPEAKER_03 21:26

So, what do you mean like taking her out of the school and then just yes? So I I I think you know, it's it's so important to shift your mind from you want to do school at home, because it's not school at home. And I think for us, the first thing, and to be honest, I've always had my parenting style as attachment. So it's a very safe attachment, emotionally safe um space. And we've always had that. So I think that is a very good foundation. If you can build a foundation of trust, Your children, no matter what, um, that will be the start, you know, because when children come from an environment where they have potentially been bullied, made to feel like they're not good enough, they don't fit the system, their grades might be low because it's standardized testing. I mean, I can go on and on about those things. Um, but there is there, there will be, you will need time to build up that confidence again in your child. My biggest thing for me that I want for my children is a love of learning. I want them to love learning, no matter what it is, you know. And so many mornings now, I might have a bit of a rough idea, and then we wake up and then they say, Oh, mom, we saw this butterfly outside. And then I differentiate the learning because one of my children is in high school and one is still in in year one, and we learn around that together. I've learned so many new things that I never knew. Um, you know, but before you get to that, that love of learning, it's creating that safety for your child. It's it's that positive, you are good enough, you are worthy, you are loved, you are safe, you belong, building your child up again. Um, gosh, I'm getting goosebumps by that. This has been our journey. Yeah. And now I feel emotional, but this has been our journey. And this is what a system unfortunately can do. It can break your child, it can break your family. And you as a parent, you have the authority to build your child up again and to see them blossom again, which has been our experience. And you know, so many days I sit and I see my child love, my funny child, joking, relaxed, singing. Like I hear her walking and singing, and I go, We're back. Yeah, we're back. We've got to be back. Because I was losing her. And and and that is that is hard. That is very hard to see you lose your child, lose so much of themselves, you know, and now it's so beautiful because because she is 13, we have these conversations. She can voice those emotions, she can speak her heart, and it's it's part of our healing together, you know. But my advice would be step away from school for a moment or what you think it needs to look like at home, and just love your child, just coffee, just go and have a caramel slice and just be together for a bit, and then build back into formal learning, whatever that might look like for your family, because there's also so many options around that.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yes, yes. Oh my gosh, I've got so thank you for sharing that. I honestly have you should see all the questions coming up. The point you said, because I refer to this a lot, is you mentioned you're healing together. How has that journey been for you, you know, from going from seeing your child struggling so much to feeling like you're losing her? Like, how did you navigate that yourself? Because I speak to a lot of parents who are feeling that like absolute grief, like that they don't have no other option but to just keep forcing their child going to school because they don't know how they'd make it work or what is possible for them. Again, controlled by the stories. What was this like for you seeing your child? Like, how did you navigate that yourself?

SPEAKER_03 25:19

If I'm honest, one of the first feelings that came up for me was guilt. I I felt guilty because I thought that school was the best for her, and then I went inwards and went, I wanted the best for her, but what happened was out of my control. But what was in my control was to say no more, and then my guilt shifted to I am my child's protector, I am here for my child to make decisions, to support her, even though the decision we made we thought was the best for her. And, you know, being able to say no longer, you know, this is where I draw the line. And I'm not sure of how the journey is going to exactly look, but I'm sure that we're gonna do it together. We're in this together, you know. So the healing journey has been very much up and down because we all know how we talk about mum guilt. And that came up for me, even though my heart was only beautiful things for my child. I still felt like, in a way, I did this to you. Um, so I had to work through that, but I quickly shifted that to a I'm changing this now for you, for your benefit, to what I believe and know for a very long time, but we are fully going to step into it. We are gonna be bold and we're gonna step into it. And I am here to support you because I am the adult. And like you mentioned earlier around that co-regulation, I think it's so, so important. We have cried together often. And I think it's very um, it's very age-dependent, you know. Even my six-year-old, because she was in the same school, and afterwards she started talking about things that she experienced. She would say things like, Mommy, I would want to go to the toilet. And I said, No, but this is my own body, like I couldn't hold my wee wee anymore. Or, mommy, I was asking for water, and then they said no soon. She said, But that it felt a very long time, you know, stuff like that. Or she would say, Mommy, they said if I would sit like this with my finger on my mouth, they would give me a sticker, but I never got a sticker. Why? So things like that that she started to process afterwards. Like this doesn't didn't make me feel good, you know. So the healing journey for us has been very much, let's talk about it when you're ready, let's talk about it, and I would talk to them about it. And you know what? I said sorry, I repaired that and said I'm sorry. It wasn't, it wasn't the best for you, and I'm sorry that you've gone through this by we're in this together, and it has been massively healing, but I think it's it's taking that ownership, maybe as a parent, and then going, but what can I do about this? Even though it feels scary, even though I have no flipping idea what I'm going to do, I'm going with what's in here in my heart, and yeah, it's been powerful, it has been.

SPEAKER_00 28:19

Yeah, thank you, Charlotte. I think so many parents need to hear that. Yeah, that it is so much of your healing journey, too, and not having all the answers and being willing to be vulnerable with your children with that. You know, I talk a lot about um being taking back that authority and you know, being your child's educator, and that is being willing to heal and raise yourself again alongside your child, and that's feeling safe in sharing emotion and feeling safe talking about your emotions and experiences and how powerful that is for learning. Like that is the learning, yes, yeah, it's a hundred percent. Like you said, it's the core, it's the foundation. It's if we can connect like that in our home, then learning is going to come and it's going to come tenfold, and it's because of the environment that we've created.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Absolutely, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, I think that was such a powerful piece to share, and I thank you so much because I know so many families, parents, mothers in particular are feeling like this and feeling stuck in what to do next, and it is that guilt and not knowing where to move with that. So, thank you so much for sharing that. Let's go a little bit into your research because I think it's really interesting. It it is not something that has been touched before, and you've been doing it for quite a while now. Teachers who lead the system and then choose to homeschool their own children. Like, can you can you paint a picture of what's actually happening out there? Like, what are you seeing? How common is this now?

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Well, you know, if you look, there's so many news articles and even stories on television of this coming up now. And there's, I think with the with the homeschooling the word, there is stigma, first of all, and there is just um such a huge variety of unschooling, deschooling, homeschooling, you, you know. So I think when you want to start, that can be quite an overwhelming, an overwhelming thing. But what my research at the moment has demonstrated with the literature that is available, and it's kind of like research on teacher attrition and then research on homeschooling. So there isn't really that intersecting piece, and that's obviously what I am researching now. Um, but the teacher attrition piece is very much about some of the things that we've discussed, you know, that um the identity shift in teachers, that the curriculum, the system doesn't align with them, the workload, the push to be with their own children more, um, the anxiety, the the hours at at school, you know, there's just so many things that is pushing teachers outside the system that is just happening there. And then the pull factor where they go, but I want more for my child. I want more flexibility. And I and also what has been interesting when COVID happened, that kind of highlighted that for many teachers. You know, I had um I'd looked at some research of that that just teachers went, wow, okay, I can be with my family more. You know, there is this flexibility around it. And I think the massive thing is the alignment. So my research really sits in that identity piece. You know, what is the shift that happens for you as a teacher and mother or as a teacher and father? And you go, actually, you know what, these things they don't align with each other. Um, so this that is where I'm at at the moment, you know, there's all this research sitting in this attrition space, and then my framework is that push-pool that you touched on. You know, it's these things are pushing teachers away from school or the system, and then pulling them towards a more aligned life, really leaning into that identity shift that they're going through. Um, and yeah, my research is going to sit in that intersecting space and and hopefully, you know, um just demonstrate some of the things that that I'm even living and thinking and feeling, but that there's a wider community um going through the same feelings.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

Yeah, yes. And I think even for the listeners who aren't teachers themselves will resonate with this in their journey to motherhood. You know, I don't think that it's spoken about enough of how much uh yes, it's a seasonal change, but how much of an identity shift in whole body experience it is to enter into motherhood.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

And I think like now we're not women, we're not nurtured in that enough, you know, the village, the piece there, how much that has broken away, and so we just expect that life just has to keep going the way it always has, and you know, yeah, yes, and I think when we're in that space, you know, that uncertainty space, it comes with quite a lot of negative and overwhelming emotions of uh anxiousness and how am I gonna do this, and I feel it, but I don't know what next. And then when you just go, you know what, I'm doing it, and those emotions then shift to you become powerful. You you step into your you step into your power, man, as a mother, as a woman, yeah, and you just you you see the shift not only in yourself, but it takes courage to to because that those negative internal voices can be a lot. But when you kind of slowly coming up that hill and start to see the sun come up, you know, it really shifts something in you, and not only just for your family, but I think for me, the identity shift has been more than just being a teacher and now homeschooling. It really lights up other pieces of your life as well, where you go, why have I done this? Why am I doing this? You know, it is a lot. You start questioning everything, you start questioning what am I wearing, what am I eating, what do I want to do for the next five years of my life? And it can be unsettling, but it's also such a I'm just leaning into it. I am just I'm here for it because I feel like it's opened my eyes to so many things that I have felt for a long time I'm doing it because that's the norm. And now I'm actually just questioning it and going, oh no, no. Doesn't feel right for me. Absolutely. Absolutely right. Or the all my children and my family. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yeah. And I I talk about this a lot. I I truly believe, and I think a lot of this has to do from our schooling experience and compliance and following, you know, a script or a way things are, is that we think that there's like an end goal, or you know, we we we finish school, we get the job, or we study, we get the career, we maybe get married, have children, buy the house, whatever it is. And then we get those things and we're like, what exactly? Like questioning, is this, is this it? And I think we don't, we've never been, if we haven't been nurtured or we haven't had the opportunity to see that, like we're here for an evolutionary journey and we're here to constantly grow and you know, desire more and move the goalposts and be open to to change, you know. But so many of us are stuck in maybe it doesn't feel good, but the nervous system deems that is safe because this is what's comfortable. Yes. So we stay there. So to question or to step out of that comfort zone or to do something that's out of the norm feels really destabilizing to the nervous system, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:41

And I think that's why it's so important to associate with people like yourself and and and myself that is living this and studying this. And the more you read also about other parents and mothers that have stepped into the what do you the unknown or the outside of the norm or the system, whatever you want to call it, it really empowers you because it shows you what is possible and it shows you that it, like I mean, if you really go and look into it, a year 12 certificate is so irrelevant because in the sense of I know there's many parents that worry, will my child be able to go to university? And now I'm doing my doctorate, but let's put a question mark around university. What does that mean? Is it still needed? Is your child even a child that needs to go to university? What other options? We're living in an AI world. You know, we can go on and on about that. You really start questioning things, and we also start noticing how many other opportunities outside of the one-way street you thought your children need to go. There is, there is so many opportunities that that they can explore and that you can support them with outside of what we thought we needed to do. Um, and that's why I say that is why I'm saying align yourself with like-minded individuals when you're new to the journey because it will encourage you and and make you feel less scared and less, but what's gonna happen if they don't go to school and if they don't get this certificate, and if they don't you learn so much along the journey, and it just really empowers you more and more that you're thinking it's okay, it's okay to think different, it's okay to want different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Absolutely. And I this is the the piece that I speak into the most is with identity shifts, there is things that need to fall away. And so that comfort piece of like, oh, well, what if my friends don't accept me if I choose to homeschool? Or what are my parents going to say, or what are, you know, the people that have been around me for so long is we cling on to that so tightly of thinking the worst of that, you know, we're not going to meet or find anyone that's like-minded. The the thing that has been the most prominent part in my journey is connecting with like-minded people and you know, getting evidence from them of what is possible. It's like, oh wow, like you're asking a question and like you haven't died. Like, you know, that there's and wow, like there's homeschooling groups or there's like communities that you can lean into. Oh, you don't have to have your child at home with you 24-7.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

You know, it's but that can be really hard because that's all you've known. And like you say, that's your safety. So your family, your parents, they're your safety, and now suddenly they start criticizing you, and you still need to push forward because you know in your heart and in yourself, and and that can be very challenging. And I think, you know, I just want to encourage those parents and those moms sitting in that space, you know, that you are always going to feel that misalignment and be unhappy if you are going to um let the thoughts and words and wants of other people influence you so much that you don't follow your own path. I'm not saying don't listen to to other people or that we can always listen, but you can use your judgment to say, yeah, I see that for what it is, and it's not for our family. Or, well, that's actually a great thing that this person has said, maybe like about homeschooling. Now I'm gonna look into that. But you have that authority and you have to make that choice. And sometimes it does mean to move away from friendships and walk away from it because you know where you're going is bigger and more important for you. And there's for me, one of the most powerful things that I've ever done is to live in alignment with my values and my beliefs. It comes with sacrifices, heck, it comes with sacrifices, but it is so powerful because intrinsically you become such a more happier person when you truly choose your own values and beliefs for yourself, for your children, and for your family.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Absolutely. And you think how much that strengthens your self-trust, that strengthens that that inner voice, that intuition, not the the what I call the opponent voice or the ego voice. Not that voice, but that internal voice that so many of us have been disconnected from, you know, from following a path that's not ours or lit always seeking answers outside of ourselves from authority, through schooling, through education, like through the systematic way of learning. I truly believe, like you said, is there's no greater journey in, you know, aligning with your values and finding out what it is you value and starting to listen to that intuition again. And the biggest reframe for me has been when being fearful of, you know, potentially losing friends or disconnecting from the safety net that you've always known is like, how can you be the lighthouse for them? Like, how can you be the light to show them that there's another way? You know, it doesn't mean that you don't love them or respect where they're at. It's just, and I I did, I struggled with this early on in my big awakening transition, is like I was trying to pull people along with me, like, come on, you need to see this way, and like being like the tugboat, but that was just forcing, like making me feel angry or like frustrated, and it was also pushing them away more. It's like, how can you be the light for others to show them that there's another way, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:13

As long as, you know, again, it comes back to demonstrating that for our children. So, for my daughter, for example, she's playing for a club, netball, all the children go to school. And the things that she has experienced and heard, and where some of the children are at with their experiences in school is very different to what she values and is living. So to support her in navigating that, because it's very similar to what I'm navigating, because I'm not using just the same things all over and over again. Um, and it's such a powerful journey when you can do it alongside your children, you know, to have those conversations because she's 13 and what does that look like for her? And she's hearing these things, and we can talk about it. So it's it's a beautiful journey if you can lean into it and not go, oh, but we're now not like that, or we're not. No, you're not, and that is amazing. And and what does it look like? And where are you going and what is important and but it is that reframing and that continuous journey really that you're on, because it can be quite different when you're out of when your children is also out of the school and that same systematic ideas and things.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

Absolutely. And I I hear this is a massive block I hear for parents. It's like, well, what do I do about you know our sporting groups? Or are we still are the kids gonna still feel comfortable there? Are they not gonna fit in? Like, are they and the social piece is huge?

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Oh, the social piece we could talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Well, the social piece, right? It's like what is going, are they gonna be like, are they not gonna be out of social? It's like I socialize, it's like, oh fuck, I don't know how to socialize, and I went all through school and I'm relearning how to socialize.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Oh my gosh, yeah, it's huge. Those things are valid, and I think for parents that is still in the beginning of the journey. Yeah, if I it's so funny, just quickly on the socialization. We we everywhere we've gone, literally, me and my husband, we love now. Children and families come to my children as they are playing with a ball, or we went away, the children in the swimming pool, and then they come play with my children. Old, young babies, they order their own food, they go to the store, they buy their own ingredients. They have never socialized the way that they are socializing now with various ages than what when they were in school for six hours a day with the same age children in an environment that is yeah, I mean, I can carry on about it, but the socialization is valid, yeah, but it's not true. Yeah, it is things that people say because they don't know, and you will get. That's so often. Like yesterday, somebody asked me, so where does your children go to school? And then as soon as you say I homeschool then, you get the ah or the ah, you know. Um, and yep, okay. If they ask me questions, I love to talk into that. Otherwise, I just leave it at that because I'm not here. I don't want to speak badly about school or try to advocate so much about it that you you have to choose homeschooling. You need to find this for yourself, but I do know the reality, I do know what it looks like outside of the system. And the people that are already thinking about homeschooling is the ones truly being open to what is happening. They see it, they know it. So I don't have to tell them the whole myself for what's happening. They already know.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

They already know. And this is this is it, is like we're so much more now with the rise of AI and how quickly we can get answers, is we're drawn to energy, right? So, like you're talking about with your kids, is like they've got their spark back and they know who they are and they're they're regulated. So, of course they're gonna draw kids in when they're out there that are right for them because their energy is so much more assured of themselves and you know, feeling safe in the world. And I think that's another piece is like, how are you getting them ready for the real world, you know, if they're not exposed to whatever it is it is in school, whether it's peers and whatever. I think they're I truly believe they're more exposed to the world because they get to go and experience the world.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

If I think about my older daughter, she never wanted to speak up in school or pulls up or would never say something to a teacher that was in a that a comment that was. I mean, there's many examples. The a couple of months ago, she was put in a situation by another adult when we we were farming, and I could hear her say, she said, I feel uncomfortable about that. I'm not going to do that. I literally busted out a Michael Jackson Jackson move. I was like, You go, girl. You go, girl. Yeah, you use your voice, girl. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that is what I am now teaching my children can demonstrate to them, you don't you don't have to be rude, but you can say actually no, this I don't want to do that. But in school, how often, most of the time, children just do it because my teachers said so and that is not okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

That is not okay. And you can see why that is so such a challenge for adults now to be questioning themselves because they they learnt to stop asking questions, right? Someone else has to tell me what to do, or someone has else has to tell me what's right. And I truly believe that if you are called, if you have the desire, if it is on your heart, it's there for a reason, and use other people as evidence of what is possible because it is so much about your own deconditioning of always seeking answers outside of yourself to authority. And if you can see that within your child, and you know, I truly believe our children come here to raise us as much as we're here to raise them.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

So we're able to link them. These conversations is just so powerful for you know teachers like us and then now mothers to to to speak our truths, to speak our lived experience, to link it to research. I think it's really, really important. And it's just such a um these conversations is supportive for families, mothers standing at that line and going, I'm still on this side, I hear these things, and it supports them in their decision making. Like I'm saying, I'm not here to um what's the word I'm looking for, that you have to do this. But I think these lived experiences just demonstrate it is possible. You can get your children back. Bullying or emotional um things that they've gone through, you can get your children back. You know, it's just so encouraging, I think, to listen to these stories and to just demonstrate to families it's so possible. And it's such a great and happy space to be in. I'm so grateful.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

And I feel that, like I feel it in your energy, how much you know it's shifted for you and how much it's changed your life, choosing that. And I talk about a lot is like homeschooling is literally the doorway, right? It's the doorway to you designing your life of what feels aligned and what is aligned with your values and being able to choose what it is. It takes courage and it takes boldness. And what would you say, Charlotte? Because I this was a major thing that kind of sparked my awareness in this. And I had friends say to me when I started to say, Oh, we're going to homeschool, Eden, and this is when I was still teaching. They're like, Oh, Ali, that's so easy for you. You're a teacher.

SPEAKER_03 48:48

Well, yeah, I think that often I because again, the and this is why, and we briefly touched on it when we first connected. This is why I don't even we don't talk about homeschooling. That's what I was gonna go into, yeah. Yes, we're learning at home, or uh, this is our learning experience because I just want to completely remove myself from that schooling or that teacher um aspect of you know, school and teacher, and you have to be it in in order to teach your children. I think that one of the things is I sometimes when I do something, I see the teacher in me, and then I go, please stop with that. You don't need to now teach your five-year-old this way, like this is not needed. Yeah, so I am I'm learning, so if you don't have it, it's it is a blessing.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

I say that too. It's almost harder for the teachers to do this because they're living home.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

A hundred percent. I think, as with anything in life, and because homeschooling is now, I don't want to call it a movement, but I feel like many people are really opening their eyes. Yeah, it's almost you are blessed if you're entering homeschool because there is a lot of different curriculums, yeah, there's a lot of different opportunities. So you don't need to be a teacher to teach your child the if the academic learning. Our academic learning, and what I mean by that is really the sitting down of say doing maths, for example, and doing like I've got a five-year-old. It's important that she reads well, it's important that she writes well. But for my 13-year-old, when we've got a maths program for her, but when a maths concept comes up that is irrelevant in the day and age we live now, we press the skip button. We don't learn those things anymore because it's irrelevant in 2026. And isn't it amazing that I can teach her this is irrelevant because this is another tool. Again, if you can shift your mind from I want my child to memorize or I want my child to old ways of thinking, you know, or we write a test. If you can shift your way from that, the world opens up for you. And that's why you don't have to be a teacher, you have to do your research. And again, that aligns with families in their own different ways. Some people do a lot of book work, some people don't. They do lots of more learning, you know, as they go. For us, what I find works well is a balance, and everything is a balance, and our journey has evolved as we go. This is not a fixed, you have to do it this way. Like, I mean, I look at the curriculum in Australia and so often I go, that's enough for me. No, that's you know, so I make those choices and I can justify my choices very, very clearly because ultimately I want my children to have a love for learning. Here I am doing my doctor's degree because I love learning, I love understanding how people think, identity. So they see that I demonstrate you don't have to do a doctorate. I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is let's create children that want to learn. If you can create that, then you're away. Then you're away because children can learn anything, they don't have to memorize it, they don't, it doesn't have to be this or that, you know. So you don't have to be a teacher. I've I've gone the long way around, but ultimately you don't have to be a teacher. You have to just explore different options and again find what aligns with your family, not what other people say, what your family wants to do.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's honestly so many things dropped in there as you were talking, but I think the main pieces, and I talk about it a lot, is finding your rhythm and knowing that it will change and knowing that it will move and it's what works for your child, and you'll figure that out. It's like some kids love to sit down and do learning. My daughter does not like that at all, and she leads in her own way. And you know, I had to let go of all of what I knew about where she should potentially be at this age as a teacher to go, no, I trust her lead. I'm going to be the facilitator in guiding her. And she's picking up like because I going back to teacher days, I never taught kindergarten. So phonics for me wasn't ingrained of like how pre-kindergarten was when we went to school, like to know phonics. But phonics, like it wasn't something that I was ingrained in. I knew exactly how to wrote, like, teach them. So I was like, Oh fuck, like, am I gonna be able to teach her how to read properly? And she is like reading because of what she does, like when she cooks and when she looks at all this line.

SPEAKER_03 53:32

It's so important. You question yourself as a baron. This this journey pushes you, and you can either see it as a negative or you can see it as a positive, and you can go, what is what is this homeschooling journey showing me as a mother, showing me about my thoughts, showing me about the things that's holding you back, or questioning, can I do this? You so can, you so can, but again, it's reframing of those ideas that we've had before and questions, you are capable, you are capable. And you know what I love to do is to say to my children, I have no idea. Let's figure it out together. Should we just come and have a chatty chatty chat and see what's happening? You know, and then we laugh, we go instead, we find it out, and we move forward, demonstrating to them. Mommy doesn't know everything, and I don't want to know everything. I want to learn with you. Yeah, I want to I'm on this journey with you, you know. So I have changed and learned so much alongside them. And they see that, and it's again part of that healing, part of that growth, and demonstrating that to our children. I think so often we hide, we hide um behind showing them we make mistakes or we're unsure of, or we're having a hard day, or no, no, we don't have to do that. That's the whole point because this is real life. And to enable them to be able to say, I feel tired, I feel sick, I feel overwhelmed, this concept is too hard for me. I had to reframe my child around maths so much because she would cry about it. She's so capable, but she was so stressed around it. Now we joke about it and said, save your tears for something else. Something that is important. It's not like that. Everything maths is not worth it. It's taken months, it's taken months of encouraging her, of saying it's okay to make mistakes, it's just maths. So it's such a beautiful process that that I wish every parent could go on with their children and just having the time with them. I think I just want to say that having the time with my children is I have no words for that. I feel blessed every single day. And absolutely, I've gone through stages of motherhood where I felt touched out. If you talk to me one more time, I'm gonna, I don't know what. You know, I've gone through those moments. I still have those moments, and say to my husband, right, I'm going to town, see you guys in two hours, I'm by myself, don't talk to me, don't take me, leave me alone. You know, we all have those moments. But 90% of the time, being with them and truly valuing them and seeing them grow and seeing them happy, and it is it's the greatest blessing of my life. I can I can honestly say that.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

Yeah, and I totally agree. It's like if you're willing to again heal and rise alongside alongside them, and exactly what you said is like we are lifelong learners, we are learning with them. It's such a beautiful journey when you let go of that piece of you have to know everything, and that it is such a beautiful journey of like you teaching yourself emotional resilience or how to understand your emotions again. And I what you touched on there, and it it hits me hard because I see it, I see it a lot now is that piece of listening to our body, and this is coming back to our intuition, our self-trust, our inner guidance. How much of our life was through force because of our schooling journey? You know, on the days where it's like, oh, I can't miss today because maybe I want to have a hundred percent abs, like I don't want to have any absences, or I don't want to miss out on this because then I feel like I'm gonna be behind in this part of learning. It's like, when do we at what age do we stop listening to our body of when it's telling us to rest? Like, you know, you and I jumped on the call now having a cold come through, and I'm at the end of it. But how much that's changed for me in having my daughter of like not we're not forcing. We are not forcing anything anymore. You know, the slow mornings, like you said, how cooked you were by the time you got into the car of what the F just happened. Absolutely does not have to be that way.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

No, no, absolutely not. And it's and it's amazing to to I'm I I'm 42 and I'm absolutely learning that and leaning into that and teaching my girls that, teaching my girls that, you know, I'm going through perimenopause now, early days of that, speaking to them about that, you know, creating that space of truly understanding our bodies and supporting each other and our feelings, and we don't have to just push through. We don't have to just push through. And I think, like you just said, we so often do those things because it's ingrained in us. I come from a South African culture, you push through, girl. Like if you're not dying, you're going, you know. So it's unlearning cultural expectations that doesn't serve me anymore. So it's there's a lot of those things, but the the payoff is massive. And to see it in my children and to see the safety for them, I think for me, that's the biggest thing. If I think back to how uncertain my children were, cried a test. Like when a test came up, the stress around a test. Now, what is a test? Why are we doing tests? Like we can have a podcast show just why are we doing tests? Yeah, but in this day and age, and you think how stressed your child is to remember something that they're gonna forget in the next week, they can't eat, they can't sleep, they want to cry, it's irrelevant. I think create a answer within five minutes. Why are we doing it?

SPEAKER_00 59:12

Like what's the story that they create around themselves around the world.

SPEAKER_03 59:16

Absolutely, and then they get less than their friends, and then I'm not good enough, I'm not clever enough, the whole rhythm are all around something that is completely irrelevant. And when you truly start seeing those things, you're just like, I can't do this anymore. I I can't I can't let my family do this anymore, or my children, because what they're learning and the pressure they're going through, it's it's not even needed.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Yeah, and for the listeners, if you heard Charlotte, then the testing is irrelevant, and we cannot preface that enough is that so much of it was controlled around data and testing, and that was just for the system to have evidence you know, of something working when really it's just uh it's destroying our kids.

SPEAKER_03 59:59

And if I see my 13-year-old things that she's learning now, how she's writing, how she's thinking, you know, and how I'm supporting her through that journey of essay writing, doing research. She's 13 years old. The options is endless, and she's learning about things that she loves. It's science, it's animals, it's the ocean, it's planet earth. Like she comes down and tells me from where on from her laptop and tells me things that she's been doing. I'm like, God, no idea. Tell me more, tell me more, you know, and she's happy and excited, and she's like, Mommy, the relief of feeling I don't have to memorize these things um or be tested on it. And she speaks the words and understands it and demonstrates. And then when she was in school and said she wouldn't get the grade, then immediately that that negative self-talk and it's not needed. It's the data associated with it because teachers have to do it because the system expects it of them. It's not even an accurate reflection of the child's ability and the stress and emotional damage it causes, it's just not needed.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

It really isn't. And I think what you mentioned there with your daughter is like how much freedom we have to follow their curiosity. Like she can stay with that for for years if she wants, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

We can go deep, deep, deep, deep, or we can go, oh, that's enough for us. You know, we're done with it. And we have been doing it, we've done project work because it's something that we're all interested in, and we just carry on with it. Um, I mean, she's learned so much from my husband with farming, injecting cows, herding cows, riding a quad bike, all of those things. Like, I can that's again carry on with it. She never had opportunity because she was in school for six hours. Learning about genetics, learning about AI, doing many of those things as a 13-year-old child. Children are so capable when they're in the right environment, under the right conditions, with safe adults.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:58

Absolutely. And I think the most powerful thing we we can give our kids is to show them that life is a lifelong learning journey. We're here to evolve, we're here to agree. We're not to get to a certain outcome or stage, and that's it. And like, you know, that's schooling. It's always like, okay, year one and then year two. So what's the next thing? What's the next thing? Follow your desire, follow what lights you up.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

It's like if you like you said, if you can reframe, if you can shift your perspective, you can if you can put yourself around people in conversations like this to show you what is possible, it is truly life-changing. Like how many times, and I talk about you know, quickly before the the testing, like I finished my final full year of teaching was with a stage three class, and you know, they were the loves of my life. And I think about how how much time we had to talk about the really important things, particularly with um the girls around puberty, like how uncomfortable it was for me to deliver. I felt okay, but most of the teachers felt really uncomfortable, and also because you don't actually, we weren't taught that, like how much learning I've had of myself of my body, and you know, being connected to my cycle and understanding that I don't need to be the same person on every day. That's not taught in schools, and I didn't even know that when I was teaching, like I wasn't following that from the book of puberty of what I was meant to teach the girls, yes, and you know how much like just stuff like that, and then in other classes, I'd be teaching something from maths, and they're like, Why do we need to know this? And I'd be like, I don't fucking know. Like I couldn't say it, yeah, we have to do it. Yes, just sit down, be quiet. I have to get it's on the lesson plan.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:36

It's on the lesson plan. But it's so beautiful what you just said around that puberty because again, you know, with my older daughter and changing and the journey that we've been on with it. It has I it has just been such a beautiful experience for her and for me because it was done in such a relaxed environment. And I think back to my own schooling where I was so nervous and stressed. What's gonna happen? Do I have my gear? Say it's on my dreams, but not at how you know the fear associated with that. And for her, it's just been such a gentle process, talked about it, and it's just those things, you know, that you just when you see it happen for you and with your children, you you realize how actually massive it is, and you also realize how many children walk with those feelings every single day. And again, we can talk about the behaviors, behavior is the communication, but why? Why are they demonstrating those behaviors? That's a whole nother podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Absolutely. Like, you know, your work is around identity and the emotional piece, and I think you've touched on it today of how much of the doorway to homeschooling has been that for you, you know, and for your girls as well. How like it's just we what we come back to, it's a learning journey alongside of each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

But I but that emotional piece, you know, if I think back to my last role as an inclusion teacher, my role was, let's say, the academic learning. But the biggest difference I made was my emotional connection with the children. I remember one day a child that came from horrendous family circumstances. I said to him, No matter what you do at school, come to me. This is your safe space. And I remember the change it brought in that child to have one safe adult. And I think, you know, just if we can think about the emotions around our own children, they want to feel safe. As soon as they're regulated and emotionally safe, the learning happens automatically. We should shift our focus from only academic learning and my child's going to school because they have to learn, they have to do the maths, they have to know. They need to feel safe. They need to be able to communicate, they need to have a trusting adult. And so many of those things you have to learn first as an adult.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

So that we can teach our children that. And then the learning happens automatically.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

Absolutely. And that what you just said then resonating with, you know, the children that were really struggling, you know, in the system but also at home and not having that safe adult. I truly believe that's why I stayed so long. Because I was that safe adult for so many children and to see again the shift in, you know, their emotional state, their behaviors, because they had someone that they felt safe with that they could open up to. But when it comes to, you know, having your own children and realizing that it's it's not serving you, and it is your role as a parent to lead for them and to be the one to heal yourself, raise alongside them. It's like, yes, I can serve all these children in the system. But when it comes to my child, that's my responsibility.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:46

And you see your own child suffering emotionally, but you're spending six, seven, eight hours a day trying to do what you need to do for your own child, yeah, towards other children. And I love that. That that's what I'm not saying that like I wanted to do that, but these are my own children. Yeah, this is my my livelihood, my everything, you know. Where does my energy need to go? Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

Yeah, and that's it. It's like I and that's I I shared this earlier on the podcast is that I felt felt like I failed for a while, like I failed those kids when I left them because you know, you know the impact that you're having, or you know that you had such good intentions to change a trajectory in the system. And it it wasn't until you know, the inner work that I was doing on myself, I was like, it is so much about the others, the parents leading and knowing that you are making the effect for the future to come. Even if it is just with your children, they're gonna affect other children, they're gonna affect their children, you know. And it's the energetic consciousness that you're raising when you do that for yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

Oh my gosh. I just don't want to stop. If there's a child if there's a mother listening right now who, you know, is still in the system, whether it's their their kids are in there or they're a teacher themselves or a parent who is is feeling something soft, like what would you want her to know?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:12

You can. You are capable. You you can do this for your family, you know. And as we said earlier, it might come with some really hard decisions, it might come with losing the comforts, losing the friendship group, losing it, it it will come with discomfort, let me say that. Because as soon as you step out into something that is not, and I'm putting this like this normal or the norm or the system, not even just school, anything in general, you know, it it can become uncomfortable for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

I think as soon as we can we can just truly go towards ourselves, because people are gonna judge, they're gonna say something about you anyway. The school might say, no, you can't do this, or your child has to do this, or there will be many things. You can do this, get the right people around you, do your own research. I think that is so, so important, you know, because there is a vast array of um documentation programs, people out there. Do your own research, what aligns with you and where you want to go. But I think the biggest thing is when you make a decision and you take your child out, take some time, take a couple of weeks to just settle into a new rhythm, unschool yourself, unschool your child, get your rhythm, and then slowly build from there. It's and I think the thing is sometimes, and this is something that I've struggled with my whole life. I I felt like things is a race. Like I'm racing somewhere. I have to do my masters, I have to tick this off, I have to go here, I have to. It's not a race. There's there is no end line somewhere out there. Enjoy the journey and just take it slowly with your child and yourself. But you are so capable as a mother, as a parent, you've got this. You totally got this. Um, and I think the sooner you can make the change, the better for you because you're gonna step into a world that you didn't know existed. Yeah, and it can really, really be life-changing for you and your children.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:25

The sooner you step into it, yes, absolutely, and it's it's fear. Fear can hold us back, and I get it. I oh my gosh, I get it. Yeah, but fear can also push you. So use your fear as a positive, not to hold you back, but to push you, propel you forward, and then just keep going forward, fall forward, just fall forward, just keep going, follow the breadcrumbs, that's what I talk about.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

Often, if we're feeling feeling fear and it's it's big, it's for something for us to lead into. You know, there's so much and opportunity on the other side. And I I love that you touch that. What's next for Charlotte? What are you building now with your brand? Like, what do you want to create in the world, especially like with your doctorate, with your research, what you're creating at home for your girls and your healing? What's next for you?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

Yeah, so obviously I'm I'm doing my doctorate, which I'm very excited about. On a um, on a kind of a side note, I'm doing then and then the label, which you are familiar with, which is really about that identity piece and creating just that wearable reminder of um, you know, don't quit your daydream, mama needs a minute, just those things of things that we go through that is hopefully going to touch somebody when they wear the cup to go, yep, I've got this, I can do this, I can look after myself, I can set those boundaries. So I really just want to start that space around that label as some. I've always kind of wanted to do something like that. And then for my girls, to be honest, we've got a couple of things in the pipeline around travel again that we want to do, which has always been, and which again with homeschooling is so amazing because you can do those things that you don't have to wait for the school holiday, or you don't have to wait for the um the perfect time to do it. You know, you can work your learning around it and travel, or I would encourage anybody exactly. It's so we're definitely um you know leaning into that space again um in the near future.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:20

Yeah, so exciting, right? So exciting, absolutely is beyond whatever whatever you could ever imagine, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:30

If the listeners want to find you, Charlotte, because I know you're building your incredible label, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:36

So they can go on Instagram and have a look at Zen and then the label. So putting it out there, that Instagram has probably been been one of my biggest challenges because I give me a research paper any day of the week. Instagram, social media. So it just shows you're learning, you're learning. Absolutely. Um, and then absolutely can just private message me. You know, I would love to to share more of my journey support where I can. Um, you know, if there's any more questions, this is what I'm passionate about, this is what I live for, this is this this lights me up, you know. Um, and yeah, we just love to help others or if they have more questions, because I know it can be complex, like homeschooling, it can be because there is the financial piece, there is the my work, there is my dreams. And this is why I'm saying there's so many topics that we can touch on within this framework. Um, but I think if there's one thing that I would love them to take away from today is you can do this. You, you, you, you so can do this. Um, and I just want to encourage any mama, bear, or or daddy that's listening to this, that you've got this. You you've got this.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

I think that's so powerful to finish with, and hearing, you know, someone who's a real living example. And you know, Charlotte is building a label, like she's building a business alongside doing this. And I think so many people have think that it has to be one or the other, you know, to have the career or you know, to be able to work, and then kids just in school, you can do both, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Oh, and and the other thing, you know how amazing it's been alongside my girls. I mean, I would write something, get them, and then Ruby is like, Oh no, I think we should add more pink, and I'm like, um, okay, okay, she loves pink or I said, like this yellow, what about a darker? And talk about the designs, and they're so excited to pack all that, and you know, let's talk about business. Then my husband is teaching them an Excel spreadsheet, and there you go. And this is how easy, easy homeschooling is. It just creates opportunities for them every single day, just through normal life, um, and gives them the real life understanding of this is a business, this is how it works, talking about buying things, profit, loss, and things we could do a whole nother episode on that. Exactly. Yeah, but just have them alongside you in life. It's just been awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:55

Yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, if kids are possible see their parents building something and leading with their curiosity, like that is that is that's life learning, like that's giving them opportunity to create anything they want in their in their future. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:12

Oh Charlotte, thank you so much for joining us today. We definitely I think we could go so many other conversations. So we'll definitely have you back on. But everyone, I'll pop in the show notes where you can find Charlotte on Instagram. Like I like she said, she's building a label with some incredible, mostly hats, is it? And you've got some at the moment.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

Um, obviously, I have some other ideas in the pipeline. Um, but yeah, just really starting with that and and we'll see how I go. And again, just really finding my own voice of how this will look like, but we'd just love, yeah, to connect with other like-minded people in this space of identity shifts and ideas and and where we're heading. So it will be awesome to to have some new people on there.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:55

Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'll pop Charlotte's link to her Instagram in the show notes. Again, thank you, Charlotte, for being here. Thanks so much. You're welcome. We will chat soon, and everyone I will um speak to you really soon.