She changed her mind...twice. And it was the most honest thing she ever did.

Have you ever made a decision for your child and then had to revisit it? Changed course, second-guessed yourself, wondered what it says about you that you didn't get it right the first time?

This week I'm joined by Amy - mother of three, birth trauma healer, and someone who has navigated exactly that. Amy homeschooled her son Parker for kindergarten while the family travelled Australia in a caravan. Then she put him into school. And then, after watching him slowly unravel, she pulled him back out again.

But this isn't just a story about school. It's an incredibly powerful story about what happens when you finally trust yourself again - and what it costs when you override that trust, even once.

Amy also free-birthed her third baby at home - unassisted, no scans, no health professionals. And the thread running through all of it - the births, the school decision, pulling him back out - is the same thing. A woman learning, over and over again, to come back to herself.

In this episode we go into:

→ The traumatic birth that broke her trust - and the healing birth that showed her what was possible
→ Why she free-birthed her third baby, and what years of inner work had to happen first

→ What it felt like in her body the day she walked Parker into school - despite believing her own school experience was fine
→ The plan she handed teachers on day one - and why the school slowly stopped following it
→ Watching her son walk lost among 58 kids in a double classroom and knowing
→ The afternoon his eyes rolled back in his head in the back seat of the car
→ The moment a teacher tried to physically pull her distressed son into the classroom - and what Amy said instead
→ Why the school's counsellor referral was a line she would not cross - and what her child protection background told her about who that process actually serves
→ How she and her partner navigated the decision when Andrew wasn't on board - and why his resistance turned out to be necessary
→ What motherhood activates in us - and why so many women realise after having a baby they're not meant to keep doing what they were doing before
→ And why changing your mind is not failure. It is one of the most honest things a mother can do.

Amy's story is for the mother sitting in the discomfort of wondering if she made the right call. For the one trying to get her partner on board. And for the one who already knows - but hasn't found the courage to act yet.

You don't have to get it right the first time. You just have to keep listening.

Connect with Amy:
Personal: @amy_hooke
Birth trauma healing: @healingbeyondbirth

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Parent Educator podcast. Today I've got a special guest here, and before I introduce her, something that I hear a lot of mothers, you know, speak about, something that I navigated myself that's quite it's a quite like uncomfortable feeling that you know when you make a decision for your child and then life asks you to revisit visit it, like something needs to change. And this is what our conversation is today. Maybe you've tried school or your child's in school right now, maybe it worked for a little while, or maybe it never really did, and maybe you're starting to second guess yourself or wanting to choose differently, and you're concerned about what that will do for your child, or maybe the the belief that you have around maybe failing in some way, and maybe you're sitting in between that place right now of something not feeling right, but not knowing where to lean into, and that's what today's conversation is really going to be about. That changing your mind is not a failure, and that it's one of the most I truly believe it's one of the most honest things a mother can do is lean into what is on your heart and what you're being guided to do, and that's gonna be a really important conversation today that I have with Amy. So Amy is a mother of three, mother of three. She's homeschooling her eldest, she's got a one-year-old. How odds test now? She's one and a half. There we go, we'll go into that in a minute. So she has a mother of three, she's homeschooling just Parker now, is Noah in school yet? No, yeah, she's kindergarten age. But we're going to talk about Parker a little bit today because we've put Parker into school and then made the decision to pull him back out again. So Amy also works with women who have experienced birth trauma. It's such an incredible space, supporting them as they prepare for birth. Again, after something that you know shook their trust in their own body, and how this work is so powerful, and everything that Amy does in her work and in her family is rooted in the same thing: helping women find their way back to themselves. So this conversation is going to be really real. I'm so excited to have Amy here. And you know, if you've ever made a decision and doubted it and then had the courage to change and follow what was on your heart, this one's for you. So, Amy, welcome before we get into it.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Um I firstly, I'm so thank you so much for having me on because I know um I think I said to you in a voice note that I have felt like I've wanted to share this part of like my story and my children's story for a while. Um, and I just didn't really know where and who to share it with. And then yeah, you just popped up and I was like, yeah, Ali's the person. So yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

No, I'm so excited to have you here, and I'm so glad you reached out. You were always in the back of my mind. I just I'm like getting the podcast up and going. Oh gosh, getting the podcast up and going, it was like you just roll with the punches, and then you're like, oh, I should actually get people on.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, it's like that's like that divine timing, right? Like before, maybe before this point, um, maybe there was a few more kind of pieces that need needed to unfold before I shared. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, no, it's definitely divine timing. So tell us, Amy, who you are, not you know, just just life in general, like in where your family's at right now, before we get into it.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Sure. So I am Amy, like Ali said, I have three children, which is so wild. I think the younger version of me wouldn't believe it. I don't know. I was never really a person who um like I was very c career-driven. I um I thought that that's what I was going to do forever. Um, and children were definitely like in my plans, but definitely not three, maybe one. Um, but yeah, so I live on the south coast of New South Wales, so we are literally like, I don't know, five minutes from the beach. Um we so I'm just here with uh my hubby and three kids, and yeah, we love it here. I um have worked for myself for maybe I was trying to think before we jumped on how long I think I started my own business when I think my daughter was six months old, so she's like five and a half now. So it's probably yeah, so it's been about five years, um which is wild. And I made uh that decision obviously from my like um so previously I worked in child protection. So before I had my my first baby, my son, Parker, I worked in child protection and like loved it and thought that that's where I was gonna stay. I was gonna climb the ladder and all and all of this stuff. And then obviously I gave birth, and that was like a bit of a an awakening in itself. And then um a couple of years later, COVID happened. So I went back to work um pretty quickly after I had my son, and then COVID happened, and they um there was a little bit of pressure. Uh, so who I worked for, the the money that um I guess like funded my position come from the government. So with that, it there was that um expectation, I'm not even expectation, like you had to get vaccinated, and I it wasn't something that I wanted to do. So um I sat, I like tried my best. Um the CEO of the company was he was great at the time. Um, so he kind of like pushed it out for me as much as he could, and then it just got to the point where um I don't know, it was like kind of like meant to be. Um, I just said to my partner, like, look, there's too much pressure right now. I really want to start my own business as well. And yeah, I'm gonna like, can you just hold us for a little while until I um, you know, while I quit and work out what I'm gonna do and you know, kick things off and look after my kids and all that kind of stuff. And he was like, Yep, yep, all good. And then the next day I handed my res like resignation letter in. And um, yeah, that was a pretty like that was a good moment, I think. I was I would say, I don't even think it was a scary moment to be honest. I think I just trusted that um, you know, I was getting uh just divinely kind of pushed out for a reason. And um yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be here right now talking to you if I didn't like if I didn't make that choice or if I didn't have that um kind of pushback from them. So yeah, and then I started my business. So like you said, I predominantly um predominantly work with women who have experienced birth trauma, so who are healing post-birth, um, and that can be like months or you know, even years later. And then I work with women who are preparing to birth um again after previous birth trauma. And a lot of the women I work with are um or most, like um, I think some of my clients decide to go back to the hospital, but a lot of my clients decide that that is not the safest space, like the safest place for them to give birth after that experience. So they're birthing at home with a private midwife or on their own. So um yeah, it's it's the best. I think uh like we were saying before we jumped on, it's I think like my birth experiences, so my son's birth and then my my daughter's birth, so my second baby, um, they absolutely played a part in like wanting to do this work. And um yeah, and they definitely, definitely played a part in my decision to homeschool my kids as well. Um so yeah, and I feel like once you become a mother, um once you give birth and become a mum, like everything, the way you see the world, the way you see just of the way you move through the world, the way you see the world, the way like the decisions that you make, and like everything is just I don't know, you just change so much and you're meant to. And um, yeah, you start to question things that you wouldn't even have looked at before. And that's what happened to me. It wasn't like a I feel like some women maybe give birth and become a mum, and it's like a big awakening, like a really like um, and I've met women like this, like once they've given birth, or maybe they've had a traumatic birth and they've just had this big moment of like, nah, I'm you know, I can see this for what it is. I'm not going back into the system, I'm not, I'm not sending my kids to school, I'm not doing this, I'm not whatever it is. But mine was a bit more of like a just a gradual journey. So just like a little bit of a um, I said it the other day, it was like um every time kind of like I questioned something or something, um, I had to shift my perspective, or it was kind of like a like breadcrumbs. So once I moved through one little piece, then the breadcrumbs would appear and I would follow that, and then I'd unravel the next piece or unloan the next piece, and um yeah, and obviously ended up here. So running my own business and homeschooling, and um I uh like my third baby, I literally gave birth to her like a couple of meters away um with just myself and my partner. So obviously my life has changed a lot going from working in child protection in the system, trusting the system, make like getting my what do you get, getting my um, you know, six monthly flu vaccinations and believing that um you know my kids had to go straight to school and all that to obviously this. So very different.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Oh my gosh, I have so questions to go with this.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

It's huge. Huge. I think that's yeah, wow, what a journey. And like you said, following the breadcrumbs is huge in that. I think, yeah, there's so many pieces that I want to pull apart in that. But what led you to, I guess, what was the thing that led you to getting into the work, the business that you've created now, and you know, being able to take that leap, that pivot of leaving the stable career, something that you thought that you were gonna, you know, build your way up to, and you know, having that trust that it was going to work out, like there's so many different avenues we could go with this, but what what got you into this work?

SPEAKER_00 10:50

So I think so it was my I would say like it wasn't my son, so it was a bit of a combination. So my son's birth and my daughter's birth. So obviously I experienced a really traumatic birth with my son.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

And then after so after that experience, I literally said to my partner, I was like, there is no way in hell I am giving birth again. So just deal with having one child, like there's that I'm not doing it again. Um, I remember asking myself, like, um, I remember saying to myself, like, what what did I do to deserve that experience? Like, I thought, I I honestly thought that my life, um I remember uh I was thinking about it yesterday. I totally forgot about this, but I remember having a thought of like, okay, well, up until now, like the birth of my son, up until now, my life was pretty easeful. Like I obviously I had my challenges and my hard times and that kind of thing, but it was pretty easy. Like I went to school, I was um like school was easy for me. I went to uni, I went and got all these, like I got this awesome job, I, you know, have amazing friends, etc. Like at nothing, um, I had no, I guess, like no big traumatic event in my life, no like really hard challenge. And I genuinely thought that I that was part of the reason why I had that birth. I was like, well, I I've had it too good, like I have to have something bad happen to me. And um anyway, so had that, and obviously everything that came in postpartum, and um I guess like uh going back to the system for support and realizing that actually it's not where I'm meant to get support and you know, all like all of that, and then obviously fell pregnant with my daughter um like two and a bit years later. Went and so I gave birth to her and literally had like the moment of so I had a really beautiful healing birth with um my second baby, and I remember having this thought straight away was like I was like, oh my god, women are being lied to, like women are like women are thinking that birth is how I experienced it with my son, and it I was just mind-blown the difference between how it felt when I gave birth to my daughter, my second baby, compared to what it was like when I gave birth to my son. And I just could not believe, like I I could not understand or believe the difference. It would it just shocked me so much, and it made me so, I guess, like um so yeah, just so angry or f and frustrated that women didn't know the truth, and um obviously got to experience what was possible, and then yeah, I was like, I remember like bringing my daughter home and sitting there, and I'm like, you know what, this is what I want to do, like this is the work that I want to move into, and not not from a place of um, you know, like I want to um, I don't know, it wasn't from a place of like I want to protect women from what happened to me. It was more of like I want to show women what is possible and I can, you know, I had this feeling of uh okay, well um so many, like people think that dual like doulas are the answer. Like, and I remember thinking to myself, like, okay, well, maybe I should become a doula, like maybe I should attend births or maybe I should do this. And I had to really sit with it and think about like, okay, well, like what actually, like, what did I actually need? What do women actually need to have a birth like that? And it wasn't, it wasn't the practical support, it wasn't the, you know, like it wasn't women advocating for them. Um, it wasn't uh learning to advocate for themselves, it wasn't um teaching their partner how to protect them in a hospital or anything like that. It was literally doing the work to return a woman to herself. And um, yeah, so I found a mentor and worked with mentor and started my business and um realized that that's who I wanted to work with was women who had that like a traumatic experience because people don't want to touch that. Yeah, like so many people don't want to go there. It's too, I don't know, it's too um uh too deep or like too um it goes against a lot of things, right? Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and people think it's I don't know, it's a lot to I mean, I was always used to that work anyway. So it kind of um doing it in a different way. Yeah, yeah. So it it comes really easily to me, and I like sitting in that place with women. Um to like try it's like yeah, it's like transforming, um it's like that polarity, right? Like the the the pain and power, like transforming the wound to you know, the medicine kind of thing. So um so yeah, and trusting myself to make that decision was um yeah, it was massive, was massive. And even like because obviously when you're you have a partner, like we had children together, we had a house together, we had like even just um navigating that together and like and um Andrew's my partner. So even him by having that discussion with him and even with him saying like yeah, I trust you, and like it's it's it was big, yeah, it was really big. But um yeah, I just knew like when like I said before, like when you become a mum, you just I don't know, things feel different, and you can just see that maybe yeah, the per will the person who you were before is not obviously is not um she's not here anymore, she's not meant to be. And yeah, I think when you become a mum, it kind of activates something within you that um that I don't know what did I say before, like souls per souls on purpose that activates your yeah, it does, and you become like I have never ever felt more creative than um like since becoming a mum, and every child I have it's just this new uh like creative energy that just comes through. Um yeah, and I know many mums that have that have had a baby and all of a sudden they have this realization that they're actually not meant to be doing what they were doing before. They've just yeah, so um yeah huge goose parts.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

There's so many places I could go with this, and I resonate deeply because you know, I forced myself to continue in a career, yeah, and you know, felt just this knowing when I had my daughter that she wasn't gonna go into that space, and you know, um, it was my responsibility to step up and do that, and I can support families in doing that. But before we move on to how this resonates with homeschooling, because it's huge. I know with your third baby you fully surrendered, and that was a massive piece that you get to embody and lead with women. Can you touch a little bit into that? Because I know that that was just a whole embodiment of your work with the journey into birthing your third baby girl.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yeah, so we so I like I said literally gave birth in the bathroom a couple of meters here. And I think from yeah, I I don't know, it's hard, it's just I think when you do this work and when you do um I call it like I don't know, I call it like the inner work, or you like you would, I'm assuming you would call it that as well. Like when you do the inner work for yourself and when you um start to, like I said, follow the the breadcrumbs and start to unpack and unlearn and um everything that you thought was was true, you like that's what I did, I think with son's birth and then my daughter's birth. And then I like I'm I think I was gonna say I knew after I had my second baby that I was going to free birth my third, but that's not true. I knew I wanted to have like I knew if I was going to have another baby, I would birth at home. And I think um, I think originally I thought that that was with a private midwife, and then obviously doing this work and obviously um you know learning a bit more about how the system works and that you know, like a private midwife is still very connected to the system um as much as women would like to think that they're not, they they actually are. Um so once I started to, you know, learn about that and um and I don't know, it was just uh I can't even think of like the moment that I decided that I was going to just have this baby on my own. I would say it was definitely before I felt pregnant. Um and then and the homeschooling thing ties into this as well, um, actually, towards the end of my pregnancy. But yeah, I think I just fell pregnant and immediately I was like, uh I mean once you experience like a traumatic birth and then a healing birth, you can just like I just knew that I could that I could do it. And I knew that every like I I had I and I still do have this belief that every woman can give birth um on their own. It's not like we are designed to do it, it's the most major thing, you know, um, in the world. Like our, you know, humans have to do it to be able to exist, right? So they're not, yeah. So anyway, um, so I did, yeah, fell pregnant, didn't have any um scans or anything like that through the whole pregnancy, didn't see any um health professional or and that's that wasn't because I was absolutely against it. I'm I'm not, I'm more so um like if I felt like I needed something, then I would go and do that. It wasn't it wasn't like a even if I thought something was wrong or I needed clarification, I wasn't going to do it. It was like, no, no, I trust myself. I can make you know conscious decisions around what I need. Yeah. Um, and it's the same how I like journey through the homeschooling stuff, right? So anyway, um did yeah, journey through that. Um pretty much hadn't like nothing come up really, no fears, no doubts, nothing. Like I was pretty solid with myself. Um got to the got towards the end of the pregnancy and just there was one, I don't know if I should touch on this now, the homeschooling thing. Um so the decision so my son, so we homeschooled in um he did kindergarten. So we homeschooled him for kindergarten. We traveled in the caravan around Australia for that kindergarten. Year. And then we got home, and that's when I so when we got home, um, I think we were home for maybe a couple of months. That was when I fell pregnant. So pretty much the whole pregnancy, we were discussing what we were going to do with his schooling. And then it because it was a really big thing for me. Like I I wanted to continue to homeschool him. And um anyway, so to tie it in with my pregnancy, I literally, so I gave birth, I think I was 44 weeks. So I was pretty over. Like I was big, I felt at capacity. I remember seeing you. I was like, oh my god, I just feel like I can't get any bigger. And making the decision, um, it was almost like I it was almost like I had to make a decision about his homeschooling to then give birth to my like for labor to start. So it literally, so I was clenching to that decision. Um, I didn't want to make the decision. I didn't like I wanted to homeschool my partner, my husband wanted to send him to school. Yeah. Um so, which is really hard. It's so hard to uh to navigate that as well when one parent wants to do one thing and the other parent wants to do the other. Um and yeah, like I literally couldn't, I could feel it that I had to make that decision for this baby to to come. That's the decision it was waiting for, that like this little baby was waiting for for me to just get clarity on and be certain. And then like literally, I think I made the decision like the day before I went into labor. So I finally I finally like I don't know, just made peace with the fact that he was going to go to school and literally went into labor that night. Um yeah, and had like a super short labor, it was like two hours if that, and she just came out perfectly. Andrew caught her, and we were literally like in bed an hour later, just laying there. So um yeah, it's it was a hard it was a hard decision because we weren't I think if I didn't fall pregnant, we would we would have continued homeschooling. So it yeah, it was a really interesting, like it was a really interesting time because I fell pregnant and um Andrew said to me, and it's very much like Andrew and I we have a very strong relationship and we have a very um like he generally no, he always follows my lead with the children and the decision making for our family and that kind of thing. But this was the one thing that he I guess uh really he was really firm around his decision for wanting him to go to school, which is really hard for me because I normally it's pretty easy. Like normally I just say like this is what we're doing. Yeah, you know, like I um even when we didn't, you know, even when we stopped like vaccinating our children, even when we went in the caravan and we started homeschooling, like all of those decisions were made by me, like and obviously by him, but they were led by me. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, so it was a it was it was interesting, it was an interesting time. And um I think now that I look back, like I know and I completely wholeheartedly like believe and trust that Parker had to go to school at that time. And I remember after I had um my third daughter, so my baby, after I had her, she like any baby, she like she wanted to be on me 24-7. I could not put her down, she slept on top of me every single day, all night, and I just didn't have the capacity to homeschool him. If my if Andrew was home, yes. If I had support in terms of like because my parents still work full-time, like if if I had maybe a little bit more support there, like yes. If we paid somebody to come in and support us, then yes. But in that season, um, like as as much as I like as as hard as it is for me to, I guess, like even say that he he that's where he had to be at that time. Like I'm trying I trust that. And I can see that now, um, when I look at how everything has kind of unfolded from there. Yeah. So yeah, in just in summary, so yeah, that's what we did. We homeschooled him in kindergarten, we traveled in the caravan around Australia, came home, fell pregnant, made the decision that he was going to go to school. My daughter was born in December, so he was going to start school in Jen, like well, is it January or February, February for the first term? And um, literally I signed him up the day before this the term started because I held off so much. And um, yeah, it was hard. Like it it bought, I didn't realize how I think it surprised me how much it bought up within me, bit like around this around school and just my own experience with school because I actually thought that I had a pretty good experience. I was pretty um like I yeah, I moved through, I just made it through school pretty easy.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Um, the work was easy for me, I made friends really easy. I even in high school, um it was fine, but it was interesting how like the stuff that was coming up within my body, and I'm like, wow, this is interesting because I thought that I was okay back then and I thought there were no issues, but my body was telling me something different. So even just thinking about sending him to school, even the first day that I went over there and took him over there, uh, it was like a body response, and even that authoritative, like um, I guess like the dynamic between like me and teachers, and like me, like I don't know, it was um I had this like feeling of like okay, they're the authority, and I had to remind myself or remind my body because I could feel my body responding in that way, and I'm like, no, no, no, I am the authority, like he's my child. Um, so just navigating the stuff that come up, the triggers that come up for me, that was massive, and obviously trying to uh make sure that that didn't influence him as well, yeah. So, because he was okay with it. Um, obviously, he was part of the decision, like we didn't just make the decision and force him to go. He was part of it and he wanted to go. Um, but yeah, it was it was really interesting, and I think um I had I also have a good friend who uh is a she does like consultancy work for the department. So I had I reached out to her um and just got some support with I guess like because obviously he hadn't been to school before, how to transition him into that environment and also how to uh I guess like uh speak the language to the teachers and and um tick the boxes in terms of what they wanted around him starting school and that kind of thing. So yeah, he start like he started um of course at the beginning it's an it's a bit of a novelty, right? Like it's he was happy to go. Um he was excited, he made like we we did transition him, I think I can't remember what we did. I think we did like a couple of days a week for the first couple of weeks, and like I was really I almost think like they kind of got a bit shitty with me because I was very present, like I didn't just drop him off and leave him there. Like I was very present and I was very just mindful of um how long he was going and how you know it was a completely new environment for him, and I wanted to make sure that he was okay and that he could call me. Um like I made sure that he that I was available to him, even if I wasn't there, so that was a big thing for me. Um, because I remember feeling like that myself as a child. Like once I got dropped off to school, there was no way in the like no way to contact my mum if I needed her. So I made sure that um, and I think this is what we have to remember as well, like you when you go into a system, like it's um you have to remember that you or remind yourself that you are the authority and that you can actually um because I could do all of that, they didn't like it, yeah, but I I could do that. Um and I think yeah, I think my old self probab definitely wouldn't have done that, but I I wanted to make sure he was okay. And um yeah, I remember just hanging outside the classroom, and I remember I could just feel the teacher, like I could just feel that it wasn't um there was just something different, maybe maybe they hadn't experienced it before, like a mum just kind of hanging around to make sure their child was okay. So, but yeah, so it was a novelty um to begin with, and it was fun, and obviously they were really um at the beginning, they were quite gentle with him in terms of like expectations. Yeah, and I had a plan, like I wrote a massive plan around um, you know, the the main, I think I wrote at the top, like the main goal is for him to uh create or to um I can't remember what how I worded it, uh more or less like I wanted him to enjoy learning, and that was my biggest goal for him in terms of and I didn't want him to have to catch up, like that wasn't uh that wasn't a priority for us. It was just to enjoy the space, get to know everybody, enjoy learning, and just to I just wanted him to to be happy and want to go. So, yeah, so it did start off like that, and then obviously um once that kind of fell away, um yeah, there was like little did you want me to go into that?

SPEAKER_01 33:17

What oh gosh, there's so much that you touched on then like which is so good. I was just thinking like she's answering everything that I had to ask in a story. No, but I want to go back to because I think yeah, you're getting there because you're about to say what to pull him out. But I want I think a lot of mothers would like to hear this. How did you navigate that with your partner, Andrew, when you know there was a bit of pushback from him, or he knew that you know it was the right thing, or he felt it was the right thing for partner to go to school? Like, how did you navigate that as a couple, like saying you had a strong relationship but quite different perspectives here? How did you two navigate that and how did that you know transpire?

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Well, I think there was a lot of conversations, almost like um it was like I said, like this is probably the biggest um decision that we've oh not not the biggest decision that we've ever made, but the most probably the most difficult because it's the only decision that we've kind of clashed a little bit with. Yeah. Um, so it was quite new for us, right? To navigate that. We're like, oh god, like we're you know, we're both um have conflicting kind of opinions and views. And and I think um like he so Andrew comes from a very so he's so open to many things, but I think um two things that is he is quite, and he will say this, he'll be fine with me saying this, is two things that he is quite um like his conditioning around these things is very like heavy and very prominent within him, which is school and work. Yeah. So um, so yeah, so he's worried like his concerns were obviously um what did he bring up? Like obviously my capacity. So that was a big thing. Like he could see he could see that, yeah, and he could see that I wasn't like he even said to me, he goes, I I don't think you're going to have the capacity and the time and the energy to give him what he needs in this season. And I was like, Yep, I can understand that. Um, but also like I was so it I like I really wanted to homeschool him, and that's just all I wanted to do. I just wanted them home with me. And I think once you um when you have children, you start to see that it's such a limited time that you have with them when they're little as well. So I think it wasn't um it was also that playing on my mind, like, okay, you know, he's getting older now, he's like now he's eight and a half. And I've um it it was also that I guess like just thought of wanting to hold on to him for longer as well, because you only get so much time with them um like being little and wanting to be around you and and being influenced by you, like before they move to their peers, right? So yeah, there was a lot of conversation, and um, I'm pretty stubborn, so I probably put up a good fight. Yeah, like probably went far beyond than I should have, like um, obviously, like holding on to go, and I went what 40 44 weeks or whatever. Yeah, and um yeah, so just a lot of like how we navigated that, like a lot of conversation, but also um making sure that we were both heard in the conversation, yeah, and not um yeah, like that's a big thing for us, like giving each other um time and space to speak without the other person like coming in and trying to fix it or give a different opinion or whatever it is. So it there was a lot of conversation. Um one of the and just uh like I guess just really we just uh we just had to come together and I I like I shared with him what my concerns were and we kind of worked together as in okay, well, if we make this this decision, how like what are the things that I want as his mum to ensure that he that he's going to be okay and that he's going to be supported, and and it was those things, like it was reaching out to um my to my friend, um, you know, and sitting down with her and writing a plan, and it was um, you know, doing a really slow integration process with him, so we're only going a couple of days a week. It was the agreement that uh if we were going, if if I were, what was it? It was the agreement that if I was struggling with him going to school in the morning per se, so if he didn't want to go all the morning, that he was okay to stay home, and that there was no, there was wasn't going to be any backlash from Andrew, who is very, who was at the time, now he's not, who was very, I guess, like um, even with work, doesn't have sick days, like you have to attend, uh like had that belief back then. So yeah, we compromised on that, where I said, okay, well, I like I know that this is important to you, and I know you have this belief that you have to go every single day, but I need you to um have that understanding and support me when if he wakes up in the morning and he doesn't want to go and he says that whatever reason that you support me in letting him have a day off and being okay with that and not um yeah, and it so there was a there are a few things I think I had to get like I got to the point where Andrew was so solid in that decision that I had to um not agree with it, but I had to trust that he like because we're so great at making decisions together, we're so great at like navigating parenthood and everything else that we do. Like I I had to have um had to surrender to some level of trust. And I like we've been together for I don't even know how many years, like God knows how many years. He knows me, he knows um like my beliefs and my values and everything like that. That I I had to trust just a little bit, even though I was so sure that I didn't want him going. I like I just had to trust and surrender. Um and like I said, like I I had to because otherwise that baby wasn't coming out, and as soon as I did, she came out, and um she yeah, and like I'll be honest, she was my most um what's the word? Like uh uh I had to give so much of my energy to her, so much more than my other two children. So now obviously now I can see why he had to go over that time. Um but in saying that, like Andrew believed that that decision was like making that decision, he was going to stay in school forever. So it wasn't like we weren't when we made that decision. Maybe for me, I like when I made it, I was like, okay, well, you know, we can pull him out when if he's not happy or whatever. But I think with Andrew, it was like, no, no, okay, well, I reckon this is our decision now, like he's probably gonna stay in there, yeah. So yeah, and I think also I kind of like when I look back now, I feel like for I feel like we had to move through that, and we he had to go to school, and we had to move through all of what we've moved through as a family, the decision making in terms of whether he stays or comes out or whatever. I feel like we had to do that because I think if the decision was made um with just me and not like just me wanting it and not Andrew, I don't think that would have served us well. So I think we I don't know, it was almost like the the whole process was kind of for Andrew as well to like move through some of his own things for school. And of course, like I I'm not saying that it was all for him and all for my son, like I I definitely had a lot of healing happen over that time as well. Um, but I can see, yeah, I can kind of see like the two um, I can just see how my partner kind of had to move through all of that as well, and then obviously how we made the decision to pull him out and the meetings that we had with the teachers, and I could just see Andrew kind of like unraveling and unlearning and going, oh, okay, I see it now.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

And I think that's what we needed to do. Like, I yeah, it just wouldn't have served us if one was in and one was out, because you could imagine how that would have ended. Um, yeah, yeah, we would have like clashed on more things if we pulled him out and he Andrew didn't want him out, like it just would not have worked. So um, yeah, so just a lot of trust in that.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Powerful. And you know, this is this is it, right? Is the process and being able to look in hindsight of how much opportunity for growth that you all had in that and you know, as a family, before we go into what you what what was the point that you realized you were going to pull him back out, I think what you mentioned about um knowing, you know, your your um authority in the space and what is available to you, especially when you went in knowing how you wanted to show up as a parent with a child who's at school? I feel like so many mothers just need this permission slip. Is like, what were the things that you knew that you were going to do to stay involved that I think many, you know, many of us from our conditioning believe that that's not okay or it's not even legal or it's not even possible? What were some of the things that you were like, these are non negotiables if my son's gonna be in school that you stuck to that rough feathers, you know?

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Yeah, so we like I said, we made a plan when he entered, uh when he started. So And that was all it was all written down. Obviously, I had like I've worked in the system before, not the education system, but the other, you know, a couple of um the health system and then the child protection system. So I knew obviously putting things down in writing and um having a paper trail and all, like I I know the importance of that. But it was more um so and I think this is the thing, right? Like we when we go, or I don't know, when I think when we go into a school and when we send our child to school, we kind of expect that there's going to be that communication like organically from them. We're not going to have to um initiate it ourselves, like they'll you know, like it's like that trust, right? Like they'll let us know if something's wrong, or they'll let us know if um if our child's struggling or if they've had a bad day or if and it's just I think what I and I I'm sure different schools um, I'm sure schools are very different from each other in terms of communication and that kind of thing, maybe. But they're like that was really important to me. And I think when I went in initially, I led with all of um you know what I wanted. I noted it all down, I told them what I wanted, we had meetings and it was all instigated by me. And then I think um like I I don't know, I just had I just thought that they would have fed that back to me in some way. And I think I realized after the first couple of months that actually that's not it just doesn't work like that, which um yeah, so I think I went in with a plan. I wrote a plan before I met with the teachers. Um, we went through it, I made sure that I focused on uh, like I said, what I wanted him to achieve over those first like 10 weeks that he was there for the first term. I um gave them clear instructions on that like I want him to be reminded that he can call me um whenever he wants, and they were to check in um with him at the end of recess or whenever I wrote it all down, like when I wanted them to check in. If they did, I don't know, but I made sure I wrote it all down. Um I was really big on um him having like just gradually having like half days and then working his way up to having full days. Um I never uh any time that there was pushback from well, any time that he showed me that he wasn't okay to go or that he had enough for the week, I would I would like I would pull him out. Like I would let him stay home and I would just put in that he was sick. Um so yeah, which I think they kind of caught on to as well. Um, and they did raise to me the issue of like his attendance, I think dropped to, it wasn't even that bad. His attendance dropped to maybe 78% or something like that. It was just under 80%. And um, they sent me an email and they followed it up with a phone call. And yeah, we just had a chat around um what I was seeing within him, and that it I like as his mother, I did not think it was safe for him and his like well-being to send him on a day where he is, you know, like really not wanting to go and um he's exhausted and all that kind of stuff. And um yeah, there were many like it it just I think this is a really good example, or this is the moment or maybe I'll save that too. I guess the moment that I realized that it wasn't the place for him. Um there are a few things that happened. Yeah, so I think um, like I said, it was a novelty at the beginning, it was fun. Obviously, new friends, um the like he he enjoyed the activities and um loved the canteen. Obviously, the canteen was like the best thing in the world. Um but I think it started to so I think the first half of the year was fine. The first half of the year he was happy to go. Obviously, they were still um listening to or or being open to, I guess, like my um you know, the the achievements that I the things that I wanted to him to achieve and uh expectations, and they was they must have still been open to all that because he was happy. And then I think we hit the six-month mark, and um I just noticed that like there were more days where he wasn't wanting to go in the morning. Um, so he was kind of pushing back with putting his uniform on, um getting in the car. Uh didn't want to get him in, like he didn't want to jump in the car. So he would, there were some days where he would get dressed like for pretty easy, like he'd be like, Yeah, mum, no worries, I'll put on my uniform. But then it would come to get in the car, and he wouldn't wouldn't want to get in the car. So it was like kind of a gradual thing. Um, there are a couple of days where he would do that, and then there was a couple of days where he was happy, like he was happy to go. And I started to realize that the days that uh so then in the afternoons, that was the other thing, I would pick him up, and I could tell straight away if it was a day where they were doing a lot of um uh sitting down, a lot of lessons, a lot of listening, retaining information, because he would just lose it of an afternoon. Um, he would um and then on the other hand, like I could tell the days where they just did sport and they did games and they did activities and fun things, he was fine, and he would come home and say, Oh mum, I love school today. It was so good. And I would say, Oh, awesome, what did you do? And he'd be like, Oh, we just played games all day, and that he was happy. Um so yeah, I think the um there was a point where there was a couple of things that happened where I picked him up and um he just so I picked him up and he got out of his drink bottle. He just lost it, like as soon as he seen me. It's like that safety thing, right? Like you they hold hold it in all day until they see that safe person, and then they just let it all out. So I picked him up one day and he just absolutely lost it. He picked up his drink bottle, he was like throwing his drink bottle, um, his lunchbox, and it just it was just um, mind you, like everyone was still leaving, like it was the whole school was still full, everyone was leaving the gates and stuff, and he was just losing it. And um, he got in the car, like I got him back to the car, and he just like sat in the back of the car, and I kid you not, his eyes just rolled into the back of his head. He was so mentally exhausted. Um, like it absolutely, I think that was probably one of the um, that was probably the moment where I'm like, yeah, okay, this place is this place is not for you, um, or it's not serving you like right now. And um, like he's his eyes literally, he just laid back and put his head back, and he's like I looked at him. I was in the driver's seat and I just looked at him, and his eyes were just in the back of his head. He was so, so exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 51:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Um, and so that was one moment, and um there were just lots of like I don't think there was like one big moment. It was just lots of little pieces, and I think this is what happens for I don't know, maybe it's an assumption, but I feel like potentially this is what happens for many parents is there's like it's just there's just there's not one big thing. Yeah, maybe it escalates into one big thing, but there's just little moments, just every like just little moments that make you go or make you question or make you go, oh okay, something's not right here.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah, and losing that.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Yeah, there were lots of moments. Um, yeah, and there was another one where he um I got him to school, and we were so I had like, because obviously I've got the two kids with me, plus um my son, and the bell had gone, and um we were outside, like out the front of the classroom, and I said to him, like, oh buddy, like it's fine to go in, you know. Like, do you want me to hang around a bit? I can stay outside, and you just give me like give me a nod or a wave when you're good and I'll leave. And there was no way in the world he was going in. He was started crying and yelling and um saying he's scared and that he doesn't want to go in. And in that moment, I was looking for so in in the class that he was in, there were um four teachers. So four teachers between um I think it was just under 60 kids. Yeah. So double classroom, four teachers. And I remember just looking for them to come out and to just connect with him and to welcome him in and say, like, I just wanted them to say, you know, hey, buddy, I can see that it's really like you're having a really hard time right now. Um, like, yeah, sometimes I get a bit nervous when I come to class as well. Like, let's do this, we can do this together, I will support you. Like, do you know, you know what I mean? Just connection, support, just to see if he will go in. And um, and they did it. So nobody came out, and like it was like 20 minutes later, one of the teachers came out and she went to grab him on the arm, and she said to me, she went to grab him on the arm and um said, I like if he's still upset, we'll call you later, and went to pull him into the classroom. And I just went, no, no, no. I went, no, you're not doing that. And I said, No, when I'm not, you're not grabbing him, and I'm not, I'm not doing that. And I said, you know what? I think today's been enough for him. I'm gonna take him home and like we'll try again tomorrow. And um, yeah, after that, that was when I could just feel um, yeah, I could just feel the the disconnection even more from um yeah, from the school and from the teachers. And I tried like I tried so hard to make it work as well. And um, yeah, like for him and for obviously Andrew and for myself, I was like, okay, if this is the decision, like I will try. Like I'm gonna try. I'm not gonna try and influence, you know, like um I don't know, make Parker. I don't want Parker to feel what I'm feeling. Like I want to want him to be able to make his own decisions and you know, and then I can gauge off that what the right dis like what the next step is. But yeah, after those like few moments, um I just yeah, it just started, like the process just started um of kind of questioning it. And Andrew and I talking about what's going on for him, and um it obviously, like obviously got worse. Like every week he was having more days off. He like I think, oh my god, I spent like a ridiculous amount of money buying him like um a milkshake or like an ice cream plate in the morning to try and get him to school. Like I'd be like, come on, bud, we'll go spend some time together, we'll go get a milkshake or something, yeah, and then I'll drop you off. And that was exhausting. Like I didn't want to do it, but I did it to just yeah, just to try my best to support him and make it um well, just to see, not to make it work, not to force it to work, but just to give him a little bit more time to just see if it was the right place or whatever. And um, yeah, it just it uh he didn't want to put on his uniform. He at the end of the day, he wanted to just come home and watch TV. Yeah, to zone out. Yeah, just zone out. He didn't want, he told me every afternoon to not ask him any questions and he didn't want to talk to anybody. Um and yeah, he's just he was just another kid, uh a different, completely different kid. Um and then yeah, we got to the point where we obviously started having conversations with the teachers because we couldn't like get him there.

SPEAKER_01 57:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

And um yeah, and see this is this is the thing. This is where I think uh this is where Andrew kind of comes in, and I think uh what he moved through or what he moved through in that kind of end, I guess, like end stage. Um there was a lot of like I don't know, it just it just worked. It was a really good, as much as like a it was a shitty experience, it was, it was not it was not nice at all. Um they're not supportive at all, not no respect, no, like it was really bad. And um, but it was good for Andrew because Andrew came away from that going, okay, this this is definitely not the right place for him at the moment. So let's take him out. And now obviously, like our day-to-day, like we're just solid in that decision, and I think that's where we needed to be. Yeah, so um, yeah, the the it got to the point where we had a meeting and um and we raised our concerns, and Andrew raised his concerns, and um and part like Parker, Parker told us a few things that he wanted us to discuss with them. Yeah um, and one of them was that uh he this is what broke this is what broke Parker. This um, so right at the end before we pulled him out, he that it was he was in a composite class, so year one and year two class, he was in year two. And when they did uh literacy, so when they did reading and writing, they um they would say to him, part like the only child, they would say, Parker, okay, we're doing reading and writing now. You need to go over and sit with the year one kids because you can't do the year two work. So he um that's what kind of broke like broke him. He was so devastated about that. And he even said to me, He's like, Mum, I can do it, like I can do the work. And um, he's like, You need to go to school and tell them, like, I can do the work. And I could just see in his face and he like in his eyes, like he was oh, he was so um, he was such a confident child before he went to school, and then afterwards, like he was so confident in like learning and trying new things and learning how to read and write and all those things, and then obviously um that kind of faded away when he went to school. But yeah, when we raised that in the meeting, they said, Well, that's that's just how it is. Um, there's no there's no wiggle room for that, and um, you know, that's just the level that he's at, and we're not gonna we're not gonna move him. So um so yeah, so we we walked away from that meeting, like we both walked out and um just said to each other, like I said to Andrew, I said, Well, what do you want to do? And um he he's like, Yeah, nah, let's let's pull him out. This is just beyond. Um, and they also in that meeting, they also wanted us to start the process of him seeing a school counsellor. And I know exactly, um, I think anybody who works in the system knows exactly what that means.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Uh, and when they when they mentioned that to me to me, I thought, okay, they really don't know who they they don't know him, like they don't know who he is, they don't um they don't see the that was one of the things when he first started school, I said to them, like, I really want you to see his strengths, and I want you to work with that. Like, I want you to tell me, like, when we meet, like, tell me what his strengths are. Yeah, because yeah, and um, yeah, they they they said that they sent me the forms the next day that you know they wanted to start that process, and um straight away I just thought, there is no way in hell I am doing that. Um I'm not going down that avenue. Yeah, because that's and for me, um straight away I just thought, like I I I know many parents, like I used to work with parents who um support parents who went down that route. Yeah, and um I know exactly who it's for, and it's definitely not for the child.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Yeah, yeah, and that's there's so much that we could talk into here, but especially from my experience in being a teacher, you're one who is jumping up and down for your child, and that's an inconvenience, and that that that plays that makes more work, you know, for the teachers who are already at capacity who are dysregulated as fuck themselves. And you know, the piece that you said around connection is like, yes, teachers go in with such good intentions, that's the meet the reason to connect, and then they get stuck in the whirlwind of all the policies, documentation, like marking kids against indicators, and if they're not there, then the teachers failing, like what are they doing wrong, you know? So trying to prove, yeah, you know, and so like you said, unfortunately, the kids they do end up just a number, not from the teachers, but it's from the way the system is set up, and you know, when you do see a kid resisting or pushing back and just wanting to be seen and like be seen, feel safe with another adult in there, like I'm safe with someone here if it's not my parent, if they don't feel that, of course they're going to kick up. And like honestly, a lot of the teachers are at capacity where they just I don't have like I can't even give to myself, never mind, give you know to kids. And it's heartbreaking to see as a parent, like I totally, you know, you're just standing there going, just see my child, just see my child, like I'm putting my trust in you to see my child, and it's just the way it's set up, and it is, it's truly heartbreaking. And you know, the process that you go through, the the beliefs that they can create from that experience about themselves, and then yeah, to be asked to go because that's where I ended up in the support role, is it was just the kids that didn't fit into the box that were put into that, and that that wasn't a problem because they're the ones that are really going to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

Yeah, yeah. And you can imagine, like, imagine being a teacher. Like, I I couldn't imagine. I couldn't like I have three kids home with me. Yeah. And even to give them each what they need and see them and connect with them, like it's hard for me. And that's three kids. So I, you know, I can only imagine um that classroom, I think there was 60, I think there was just under 60. So I think there's 58 kids in a classroom.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

And I like I remember dropping Parker off, and I remember like stepping kind of back and just watching through the windows what was happening. And I could see him just walking around like a lost, like he he didn't know what he was doing. He was just walking around like lost, and um, and I guarantee there was, you know, I guarantee many of those kids in that classroom are walking around the same. But um yeah, I can't like I I can't imagine being in a space with that many children um and trying to, yeah, like like you said, like what is at the foundation of anything? Like what do children mostly what do children want? It's connection. What do they thrive on? It's connection, it's the foundation of everything. Yeah. And they just can't, they can't give it to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

No, and you can see why that's created so many disconnected adults because of a schooling experience where well, we stop listening to ourselves, we stop listening to what our intuition is saying, we stop listening to you know, how to respond because it's not accepted. We stop listening to how to process our emotions, and so you can see, and like you this is how your your work, I guess, integrates, isn't it? Is like you now support mothers navigating birth trauma, and you know, that awakening, learning to trust yourself, and you're doing that as a mother and now as an educator, you know, of your your children is trusting that because it's something new to your experience. You went to school, you didn't see your parents do it. So there's so much level of trust there that you're navigating, and like I talk about this like you're relearning alongside your children and learning how process, like it's it's the process if you can lean into that. Um, oh, there's so much, so much more we can unpack here. If there's I think we should probably like get to the I I think so many women will resonate with your story, particularly around the the feeling of their child not being seen, or if they are, you know, jumping up wanting wanting something more, like see me, see me, see me, and not feeling like they're, you know, being supported, or have that doubt to pull them out. out, you know, whether that's navigation with their partner, navigation with actually using their voice in the system, which is a challenge. What would you say to the mother, you know, who's listening, who who resonates deeply, who feels something within her gut, you know, that something's not right, but is scared to make a change, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:17

What would you say to her?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

I think for me, like I I think for me it's it's not um oh and we spoke about this before we jumped on. Like it's that when you make a decision, it's not set in stone. And I think um for me and how I kind of live my life and make decisions through um like for my children and family is I'm just um I just make conscious decisions. So every time I'm every time I um like I I never I just stay open to and it it's interesting when like I think with that experience with Parker going to school and making and that experience of like making the decision for him to go it kind of brought me back from being so against the education system so against the medical system so against like I was very against everything. And it kind of just brought me back into the middle a little bit so I could see I guess so I could just see everything for what it is. And yeah I think that's something that I uh especially Andrew as well has learned is that we can make a decision and we can be open to what to maybe you know like maybe a year down the track maybe maybe he'll stay homeschooled forever. Maybe he won't maybe like we don't know but we are just open to making a conscious decision or a conscious choice um just as we go and just being open to what comes next and um so like I think that's really important because I know that was a big thing for Andrew was like okay well once we make this decision it's gonna be like this for the rest of our lives or for the rest of their their school and I'm like well hang on a minute. Yeah who says that like who makes that decision like nobody we you know it can be flexible we can change and we can listen to what's needed for our family and our children and and go with that. And I think just to trust like uh uh what was the other thing I think like just trusting that like tr I mean it's easier said than done but just trusting that gut instinct yeah and just um I guess like trusting those small like I said for me like those really small moments and the moments where you go like where you just have that feeling of like okay I don't know if this is the right place or maybe um yeah just like trusting those pieces. And yeah I don't know I mean like I it's just how I move through and and trusting that you have the ability to make it work as well. Like I think that's the other thing um like so many so many mums say to me like I could never do what you do or I don't have the capacity or I have to still I think mostly it's like financially. So it's people that say it um it's mums that say to me like financially they can't do it or it's mums that say to me like oh I could I don't have the capacity to do it like I couldn't be with my kids all day or I'm not smart enough to homeschool or whatever it is. And like trust me I've been there I've had those thoughts myself like a hundred percent but um I think just believing like I'm such a my partner like hates this about me because he's a very like a what if person. He's like looks at the I mean like any male right it's like like the yeah yeah like the tangible the the physical the what if like the negative things like let's look at maybe the bad things that could happen and let's minimize that where I'm just like I'm the um the complete opposite where I'm like look at all this possibility like let's let's just go for it and just see what happens and try um you know like we can have anything we want and we can do anything we want and I think just having that belief as well that you can um that you yeah that you can do it that it's not it's not as hard as there's always going to be hard moments but it's not as difficult and as hard as what you make out um yeah and it's the best thing like it is the difference between um like even just for me as a mum the I was so getting I was so dysregulated I was so anxious I I once he left school I realized I was like holy shit I didn't realize how like just I I was so um I don't even like overstimulating timing all the time yeah I just felt like I was just constantly trying to please everybody get everyone to like do things and keep the peace and I was waking up in the morning not knowing if I was going to be able to get him to school I was worried what Andrew was going to say because obviously Andrew wanted him there. And then when he stepped when he um finished and when he was at home we started waking up and I'm like holy shit I I didn't realize how much I was carrying around this um it was even more than what I realized. So yeah just I mean it's um yeah it was a massive difference and now like our mornings are so um so slow so calm so he's just completely different kid does all he's got all these weekly activities that he does does reading with our neighbor like and he doesn't fight anything yeah he doesn't he wants to go yeah um just such a different yeah it's just so so different and um yeah I think just knowing I don't know just knowing that you can do it I mean that's all you need right is know like that internal knowing and trusting yourself and um and I always think like our partners and I see this in the birth space as well like our partners like are our greatest mirror so if we are um you know even with Andrew like if I'm ever wobbly about anything myself so if there's ever that like inkling of doubt or questioning or maybe I'm not solid in something he he can sense it and he will reflect it back to me. So I I um you know it's always uh and I see that as a good thing like when he um not challenges me but when he questions something I'm like okay why is he doing that? Like there must be something within me that's a little bit absolutely like wobbly. So yeah I think that's a good reminder as well like our partners are pretty good mirrors for us.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:18

Yeah so are our children but no exactly and if if they're if they're raising something then it's for us to look at further and I think that's so important. Before we finish up do you want to give um I think it's really important because like I was so excited to have you on everything that you've shared so far but like you're you're a mama of three you're running a business you know you you stepped back from the career the stability the thing that you thought was going to be the path and your homeschooling like what does your rhythm look like and you know what you said it feels so easeful and it like how much like karma on your nervous system that is like can you take us through what a what the rhythm looks like for Amy and her family?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:00

Yeah sure so my so Andrew works um shift work so he has like a a live I don't know it's called like a live roster so he has like a monthly roster where they just kind of um just input shifts here and there. So it is quite difficult for us yeah for me to work consistently um or to book things in in advance because his roster does swap and change and um that kind of thing but we've found um rather like a really great it was a little bit difficult at the beginning um obviously like anything just working things out and finding what works and what doesn't um but now yeah now we like it's it's quite useful. So my children have like their set like um they have like a couple of set activities that they do through the week. So um those are all kind of we just put them in a calendar and I literally do my work. So I work all online at the moment. As much as I would love to do in-person stuff it just doesn't work for us at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

So I yeah literally do everything online. I have like I just work one-on-one with um clients so I do one-on-one sessions and then I also um now am moving to because obviously I'm trying to homeschool um and um work around the kids as well so I've like altered my business um a little bit in terms of like how I support clients so generally so I used to run like one-on-ones I used to do everything uh like live like live sessions one-on-one sessions and I was finding it quite hard to um like do it all around Andrew's work and the kids so I just altered it a little bit so I do like some recordings now so if you work with me in a particular program you get these like a couple of recordings and um I support women through like a voice messaging app. So I've like altered it and just tweaked it a little bit to see um kind of what works around kids and Andrew. Obviously I work the hardest because like to to to not I I don't work the hardest but it it like I'm not gonna lie it's a lot for me to try and um put my work into particular time slots and that kind of thing but I'm okay with that now. So I used to um back in like a couple of years ago I used to get like a little bit frustrated I think with that and um now I'm like okay well I actually get to like actually I remind myself all the time I'm like I actually get to homeschool my kids I actually get like to um you know like work for myself I get to stay home and and work for myself and be with the kids and I get to work with amazing clients and all of these things and I get to do it around Andrew's work like we're not you know I'm not clocking on and off at an in an office and we're not swapping over the kids and that kind of thing. Like how lucky am I? And I work from just that place and that belief. Like it's not but it's um you get to do what lights you up then right and the thing is like when you do well you would know like when you do your uh like when you um when you work with like your soul clients and when you work in that like the job that you know it's like your soul purpose or you do the job that you're destined or the the work that you're destined to do in the world like it's such a different feeling it's like you're not even working.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:49

Absolutely like it does it like it gives you a pool of energy.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Yeah exactly yeah so um yeah and then we've obviously we're you know we're doing some things to um bring in some extra income like we're looking at different ways that we can I guess like work less um obviously work smarter not harder so different ways we can um yeah bring in income without having to exchange uh time for money and that kind of thing and yeah but it's a learning process and um I think just no like I said just knowing or just believing that anything is possible and like look at everyone else that does it. Like I look at other people who do it and I'm like well I can do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Yeah. That's it. To put yourself around people that are doing it right and just use them as evidence and do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

I think yeah it's I and you only have one life like you literally have one life and um yeah I don't I don't want to like I don't want to get to the end and and regret um and regret anything. Like I want to be the person who and I'm very much like um obviously because I run my business off social media and I have to be seen on there and I have to like um like I love jump jumping on podcasts and I think um just and I've had people say to me like oh um you know I I don't know how you get on there and talk or I'd be I would be like there's no way in the world I could get on and talk and be seen like that or like I've had people I've had friends say like oh such and such was talking about you the other day saying that like you know they've looked at your social media and they don't know how you can do that or whatever it is. And I'm like you know what I like I don't want to I'm that person who is like we'll try anything and everything and I don't want to be that person who just sits there and just regrets it. And um yeah like I I don't know I'm just happy to give it a go give it a go and um yeah just make my life as as amazing as possible before I get to the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:00

Absolutely and I think how incredible is that teaching your kids to just like follow what lights you up to try things to to fail. Like you know in entrepreneurship it's such a spiritual journey to run your own business right so like I think there's nothing more powerful that you can show your kids what you navigate that while doing it alongside them. So and I know that's that's something that so many of us didn't experience you know we had the parents that both like you said your parents are both still working whether it's for others or they've got their own business but it's not something that truly lights them up you know it's just something that makes money and I think yeah having a business that like you said it's something that really is your soul's purpose and it's here what you're here to channel and give to other people how incredible that is for your children to witness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:46

And they say to me like they say if somebody says like oh is like your mum what does your mum do for work or my kids will say um like they said it the other day they go oh no no mum mum doesn't work she stays home with us and then they think about it and they're like oh yeah and then they I can see them piecing it together like oh no no yeah mum does work yeah she works from home and she works on the computer and she does this and does this and she makes it work right yeah yeah yeah and um like I would have loved that for myself as a child yeah to know like for my mum to just be there and to be drop everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:24

Yeah yeah yeah so um yeah I try my best so good and I think it is it's just another permission slip for you know anyone that's listening that has something on their heart that you know they just go for it yeah and see what happens you know in even in the failures there's so much growth so I think it's yeah such a great permission slip. Amy if people want to find you where can we find you especially mothers you know who are in maybe experience some birth trauma themselves or wanting some support post birth where can they find you and your work?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:59

Uh so I so just Instagram I don't have any other um I'm not on TikTok I'm not on whatever else there is that's too much. So yeah so my Instagram is Amy A M Y hook H S L O K E underscore that's my like main Instagram and then um I also have healing beyond birth um so that's on Instagram as well that's where all my birth um trauma healing stuff is um but obviously you can message me on either and um yeah like for anything really like even if you're you know you've resonated with his story and you want to jump into my DMs and um just say yeah like this is me this is where I'm at I'm I'm super open to conversations and um yeah because I always think like there's so much magic in uh I guess like talking to women or learning from women um who are at that point B when you're at that point A. It's like they're they're where you want to go right so um that's who I look for anyway when I'm kind of navigating stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:02

So and that's the power of you know social media how many like we've done through there and it's yeah um yeah Amy's doing incredible work.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:11

Did you want to briefly talk about before we finish off um the village your incredible new space oh yeah so obviously so I've been in so obviously I've done postpartum three times now um all so so different um but I guess what I've realized is or what um those three experiences taught me was that postpartum can be so lonely such a lonely um time especially after like we always talk about um tending to those first 40 days and uh you know it's all over Instagram right now is the honoring the first 40 days and creating your village and or recreating the village and that kind of thing. But I think what I realized through my own experiences and working with women is that the real work begins after that first 40 days. So myself and um Bianca who's an incredible naturopath we have created a community for women um to jump into who are they well it doesn't have to be after the first 40 days but um that's I guess that's the women that we they're the women that we want in the space is women who are in postpartum and who want a village and want support and just want a space to land um during that season. So yeah you'll find that on my Instagram um it's a very like that offering is very close to my heart because obviously I've just been through postpartum again and um yeah like drop into postpartum your experience to get a good space. Yeah yeah so we'll just I get I guess even like having a you know I had an amazing birth with my third birth and um I kind of thought that postpartum would be smooth sailing and it was a media postpartum was but then everything goes back to normal and your partner goes back to work and you go back to you know I went back to the looking after three kids and sleep deprived and all of that kind of thing. And I remember um just having a feeling of like all I wanted was just some like feminine energy around me and I wanted a place to I guess like to land and to jump into in those very small increments of time in that postpartum season. And I think this is what we're creating um is a space like that where it's kind of like I kind of see it as like a Facebook you know your Facebook mums groups I don't like see it as like a I guess um because that's very well for me anyway like that's very old school and it's very it's not aligned in what women need at all. Yeah they don't need women rescuing them they don't need women jumping in and giving them recommendations and um trying to fix them and that kind of thing. They need the complete opposite so I think what we're creating is like a an aligned community um where yeah women can like transform and expand and grow and evolve and um not be not stay in the same space because it's not it's not what happens postpartum like you become a whole new person. So just supporting that and um yeah it's it's a it's an awesome um it's an awful awesome offering.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

I love that I think that's so important and I know I would have 100% needed that postpartum Amy thank you so much for joining us today. I feel like we could catch up so many yeah but um yeah everyone I'll put Amy's details in the show notes and thank you for joining us and I'll speak to you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

Thank you