You can't be the tugboat... You have to be the lighthouse!

What happens when two women who dedicated their careers to the school system sit down and admit - honestly, openly - that they can't send their own daughters there?

This week's conversation is with another incredible guest, Emma Gentle. Emma is also a former primary teacher, assistant principal, and school consultant who now works as an emotional intelligence and nervous system coach with mothers. We've both been inside the system. We've both led it. And we've both become mothers and found ourselves unable to unsee what we know.

This episode is part interview, part honest conversation between two women who are still in it - still doing the inner work, still navigating the decisions, still figuring out what it means to lead their families from values instead of fear.

We talk about:

→ How Emma left her AP role, built a business that "blew up," and then walked away from education clients entirely - because teachers were "handcuffed" and she couldn't keep watching it
→ What it means to be dysregulated - and why regulated doesn't mean calm (you can be angry and still regulated)
→ Why surface-level tools like breathing exercises don't work when the root hasn't been addressed
→ The real question to ask when your child is acting out: what is going on with me right now?
→ Emma's honest admission that even as a nervous system coach, she spent most of 2025 dysregulated - and what she did with that
→ What's actually holding Emma back from homeschooling her 5-year-old daughter - fear, logistics, community, and the very real work of unschooling yourself as a former teacher
→ How to know if you're making the homeschool decision from genuine alignment - or from fear
→ The tugboat vs lighthouse dynamic in relationships - and why trying to drag your partner toward your vision is the thing that slows everything down
→ Why partial enrolment usually doesn't work - and the real question to ask yourself if you're considering it
→ What the rise of the conscious mother actually means - and why this generation of women is the one to break the cycle

This isn't a conversation about having it all figured out. It's about two women being honest about where they are, what they're still navigating, and what they know for sure.

You can find Emma and her work on instagram - @em_gentle

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome back everyone to the Parent Educator podcast. I have another guest with me today, which I'm really excited about. Today I'm sitting down with Emma Gentle, who is also a former assistant principal. She was also a primary teacher, a consultant for schools, and now she is an emotional intelligence and nervous system coach who is working with women who are done outsourcing their authority, which is right up my alley. Em spent years inside the system. And now she helps women lead themselves, their families, and their work from a place of self-trust, which is so, so important. So today we're doing something a little different. We're actually interviewing each other. So this is going to be really conversational. So if you're you're going to be hearing both sides from us. So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Thank you so much, Ellie. I knew that when I found you on Instagram, especially where I am at the moment considering homeschooling and with your background, I knew we had to just jump on a call and chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yes, I know. And when I it was so interesting, actually, someone must have sent me one of your posts like the day before. I think it was someone from Eden's homeschool. And it was the post that you said we're considering homeschooling our our daughter. And then you popped up the next day and we were chatting, and I was like, this is meant to be. It was so cool. The power of social media, the the only real good thing about it, right? Really, it brings us so many of us together. I love it. I love it. So let's get into it. You were very similar to me, had a similar journey, an assistant principal, primary teacher yourself before you've become a coach now. Um, I guess for your story, like what was the moment you knew you couldn't stay in the system? What's your background there?

SPEAKER_02 1:50

It's actually a little bit wild. I've just come off the back of a coaching call, a welcome call, actually, into my new program. And I was explaining a bit of my backstory to the girls in there. And I was saying how it's so weird, like when you're in a profession or a career for so long, like it was 14 years, I think, all up, including my consulting. And now to be on the outside and not doing it, it does still feel quite surreal because I had that teacher identity that we all have for so long. And to be honest, I'm still deconditioning myself. Like there are so many things that I have to catch myself on in terms of even just being able to be my authentic self and not feel like I'm gonna get in trouble because I'm a teacher. Um, so yeah, I I didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school. I definitely didn't want to go to university, and I hated school. So to become a teacher was very left field. Um, but I ended up moving to be with my partner quite remotely and a local school about 20 minutes away. The principal was um my partner's friend and reached out to Josh to say, Does Em want some work as a teacher's aide? Because I was in between jobs, I was a personal trainer, there wasn't really anything here, and I didn't know what I was going to be doing. So yeah, I was like, oh well, I may as well, like I've got nothing to lose. And so I spent um two weeks just doing seven hours a week. And as soon as I was in the classroom, I'm like, oh my god, this is crazy. I want to be a teacher. I never thought this was going to happen. Anyway, enrolled, did my course sort of quickly at that time. We could do heaps of units at once, so spent three years as a teacher's aide doing my um bachelor of education primary, yeah, and then started as a teacher and yeah, just absolutely loved it. Worked in primary. Um, and it wasn't really until you know, I was happy being in the profession and loved what I did, and then COVID happened, and obviously we were at home trying to teach, and that was a bit of a shit show and uh not very fun. And I Josh and I started having sort of the conversation around family planning, and well, we're we're both energetic beings and like adventure, and we're bored, and we're like, well, maybe we just have a baby. So literally that's how the planning started. I think if COVID didn't happen, I would still be doing you know my dressage competing and probably be in leadership in schools. Um, but yeah, that all happened, and then I at the end of the first year, so 2020, I applied for the uh assistant principal position.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And we'd been trying for like five months to have a baby. Yeah anyway, of course, got the position and I was in the two-week wait. Uh, and I was like, well, let's just put the family planning on hold because I really want to do this three-year position as an assistant principal. And um, yeah, no, the world had other plans for me. I fell pregnant and yeah, spent six months in the AP position, and pretty much that's when my life completely changed having a child and having her just opened Pandora's box for me in terms of um my life and how I had experienced life so far. And I just started uh learning. I was always into personal development. I loved the Imperfects podcast, and there was um a beautiful lady on there named Lale, and I was like, you are incredible. I DM'd her and said, I like how do I become you, pretty much, and uh asked her if she would mentor me and she said yes. And I didn't know what I was signing up for. I thought I was signing up for uh a crash course in how to become her, and no, it was a crash course into my own trauma and healing and all the things. So jokes on me, right? Anyway, uh it was the biggest blessing, and yeah, that changed my life because I started working with her and she has built a school in Jelonka, Woodline Primary. I was so interested in that because I did go back doing one day a week in the classroom. Um, I couldn't go back to my AP role because they wanted me three days and I didn't want to do three days. So I sort of chose to give that up and trusted in the universe, and yeah, went down to woodline, and I was just like, how are we not doing school this way? Like, what the fuck are we even doing? It really opened up my eyes. I was at the time, um, had done very street training, really was a type of teacher that already adopted a trauma-informed approach and a relational approach just because that was my personality. Really loved working with neurodivergent children, so always was that way inclined anyway. And um, yeah, I was just like, what the hell is going on? What what what are we even doing? This is not how our system should be. So, yeah, through my work with Lale and having my daughter, um, I decided to start my business, the grad guide, um, and that was mentoring graduate teachers. I was gonna design teacher handbags there for a sec, but realised that's probably not a strength of mine. Yeah, didn't didn't go down that rabbit hole, which I'm grateful for. Thought I'd better stay in my zone of genius. So um, because that was part of my AP position, mentoring the grads, and I really loved that. So, yeah, started my business and that ended up like absolutely blowing up. My podcast blew up, um, and I ended up being asked to do professional development and consulting for schools, which was just never a thing I even thought that I would do. Super passionate about it. But the one block that I had, so I started off helping graduates adopt a trauma-informed approach to teaching. So I was very loud and proud about this is what we're not getting right, this is what I want new teachers to learn. And that's why I started with new teachers because I thought, well, this is the best way, they're not conditioned or in any patterns, they can, you know, go for it. So had so many beautiful, wonderful teachers working with me, and yet I there was just this barrier. And the first barrier was that a lot of them were not emotionally intelligent enough themselves to be able to hold space for children's emotions and behaviours. So that was sort of the glue, and because I was doing my own work in that area, I was like, I feel like I need to niche more into EQ because this is really the block. And so that sort of helped my work evolve. Um, but the reason now, too, that I am not working as much with educators or even the system is because yeah, the more that I've evolved, the more I'm just like, it just the system just doesn't align with my values and how I see supporting children with all the knowledge that I have around like being a circle of security parenting facilitator and doing all my own work, the trauma-informed approach. It's just yeah, I so so I guess to answer your question too about when was the moment, you know, it's really evolved in just following my own intuition and my own zone of genius and my own um wants and desires because I very well could have just stayed in the education space as a coach and consultant and done and mentor and done really, really well. But yeah, it wasn't until two I was about to have my well, actually no, I I'd had Rome. So probably 18 months ago, I was just like, oh, I'm just I just don't think I can keep doing it. Like wanting to help all these beautiful teachers and leaders, and yet they go back into their school, or even working with the school, and then them pretty much being handcuffed in like I want to do all this stuff that you're saying, and I'm trying to embody it, but it's just making things harder, and yeah, it just wasn't fitting anymore. So hence me moving more towards working with mothers because we're really going to the root there for emotional intelligence and um considering homeschooling.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

So yeah, that's that's huge, and there's so many, so many deaths and rebirths, like things to have to let go of then. Like you've kind of it's it's bold, you know, to build up to move into teaching and you know it was working and you got the position you're working for, and to let it go and then build something else and let that go, all because of not aligning with your values. Like how how how do you feel like you've been connected to your intuition, or is that something that you've definitely continued to develop through the inner work?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

That's a really good question. Because I actually just I um wrote, I think it was an email about this, how I would have described myself as a confident person for a long time. Like I feel like I'm quite authentic in that I just show up as I am, but at the same time have made a lot of decisions from wounds and that not enoughness wound and um that sort of thing. But in terms of really following my gut, I've always been a bit of a rebel and you know, a bit of like, no, fuck you, I'm gonna do my thing. So that has probably served me well. But I do remember starting the grad guide and saying to my partner, I know it seems wild to like leave all of this, leave my permanency, leave the safety, like everyone sits at that crossroads, right? But I I just said to him, I just know this is what I'm meant to do. I just know that this is the thing. I cannot explain it. Like you just sort of have to trust me. And he's like, Well, I trust you that you know what you're doing, so go for it. And luckily, like financially and things, we were able for me to do that. Uh, and so yeah, I just I don't know, I just knew it was a thing because I've always built my business to from my values and my true desires, and not what's gonna make the most money or what's what I should be doing, but what I want to do. It's why I think it always translates because I'm genuinely doing it for the love of what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I think that's so so powerful for you know the people that listen to this podcast, the people that listen to other podcasts as well, the women who are here is how important it is to lead with what lights you up. And I think it can be a real challenge, you know, when we we follow, like for me it was a little bit different, but I kind of followed what I thought I had to follow and wondered why when I ticked all the boxes it didn't feel the way I thought it was going to. And you know, to be able to go, okay, what is the actual thing that's gonna make me feel good and how can I move towards that, even though I have no idea how it's gonna work out or what it's gonna look like? Like that's something that hasn't been modeled or is not very traditional, or you know, entrepreneurship and having a business, especially from going from a paid secure role to fuck it, let's see how this goes. I don't know what's gonna happen here. That that takes a lot of deconditioning, unconditioning, it's a whole spiritual journey, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 13:17

Oh my god, totally, because you don't have anyone but yourself, like you have it exposes every shadow, every crack, like everything. And it's why emotional intelligence just has to go hand in hand with it. Because same as parenting, because if you want to be conscious and you want to live a life like in alignment with your values so that you do feel connected to yourself and others, then you have to be okay with being courageous, which means being vulnerable and open and willing to call yourself out. Because I think that's just constantly what we're doing as parents and business owners, and you know, now even considering homeschool, even like another level of consciousness of being able to recognize your own shit and know that okay, I'm not regulated or I'm not coping, or because so this for me, Ali, and this is what I want to talk to you about too uh in terms of homeschooling, like wearing how do you find wearing all of the hats being like you're in business now, and I don't know how long you've been in business, so you maybe you can share your journey too. Yeah, but how do you wear all the hats of being regulated enough to teach your own child and run a business and be a partner and all of the things?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah, yeah, such a good question. And I this is like you said, it's so much unlearning and deconditioning around what learning looks like and what education looks like and what that is. And I think you would resonate with this is how much of the inner work has has an effect on your family and you know how you want to show up for them. I it has taken a lot of deconditioning, letting go of you know, maybe friendships or environments that are not supporting where I want to go. Maybe don't support me in saying that I can do it all and I can be it all and it is possible, and like a bit like you, like fuck you, I can create anything. It has taken a lot of um yeah, inner work, and that was it still comes up all the time. Like, am I doing enough? Can I do this? Is it enough for her, you know? But I truly believe from the inner work that I've done, a lot of the nervous system stuff that I've learned is how much our kids aren't getting what they need in the system, and that we are their best educators no matter what we're doing. And I think entrepreneurship and being in business, like I said, is the most spiritual personal development experience that you can ever do. And so if I can lead from that and like you said, move towards what lights me up. I am educating and teaching my daughter more than she would ever learn in school. And yeah, like you said, wearing the hats, being very conscious in my relationship, you know, making sure that we're on the same page there. And it took a lot, you know, for Locke to see a different perspective and to open his eyes. And at times I felt like I was kind of the tugboat, hoping that he would come. And I can't, I can't stop it. I can't stop what's evolving. And I remember him just being like, and I remember saying to him, it was like that. It was like, oh my God, I don't, if you don't come with me, I don't know if like this is gonna work. And I remember someone reflecting back to me, they're like, Ali, you cannot be the tugboat. Like you have to be the lighthouse and trust. And I was like, fuck, I am being a tugboat here to my poor friend.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

I laugh so much because that is what we all go through. I remember my mentor saying to me, um, like, and I nearly fell off my chair, that you know, this next season it's either like you you move along with him or you go alone. And like to me, I was just like, ooh, I can't, I don't want to hear that. But that is the reality of growing and growth. And I literally had that call this morning with the girls joining the method because there's some fear around it. And I'm like, well, that makes total sense because your your relationship to yourself and others change. The relationship you have with your family, your like your wider family as well as your family unit, your friends, like you just said, like everything changes, and that's why you have to be so anchored into your why, why are you doing it? And I don't know about you, Ellie, but for me, it's because I want to enact that change in my family for generations to come. And I want that for myself as well, because I deserve that.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

100%. And I think that's it's definitely everyone that's kind of building something that's different to everything they've ever known, you know, and seeing it as a constant opportunity for growth and evolution is so, and I do believe schooling has anchored this and conditioned this in us, is like we kind of just build up the ladder and then we get to somewhere and you stay there, and you know, you have the same friends and you do the same things and you just stay in this rhythm, and it's like, no, we're actually here to evolve and constantly transform, but that's not seen as safe, or you know, that your values may change as you move environments and think you have children, like it's a the different seasons, and I think we can go into so much with this, but like I think the rise of the woman, the feminine is really coming through now that we can be it all, and we're the one that can lead and do this and show our kids the way instead of being told what to do. And you know, exactly what you do is like stop outsourcing authority and tune into what is being asked of us, what's the value, like what what value are we not aligned with here, and how can we move towards that?

SPEAKER_02 19:03

Yeah, so uh totally in congruence with that. When did you decide that the system was no longer serving you? Like, was it obvious to you? Did it happen at once or was it gradual?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah, I I it was exactly the same as you. My awakening was my daughter, and I was I remember having her saying I'd done a lot of um relieving assistant principal role. I wasn't permanent, and I remember when I had her, I said, I'm I will not go for an assistant principal role. Like I just want to cruise, go in, do my job, leave, be present with her. And of course, when I went back to work, I fell into well, what came into my awareness was a well-being role. And I knew that, you know, I wanted to be the one to lead that. I could see the impact that I can make on the kids. Like I was implementing a nervous system regulation program, an emotional resilience program. And as I was delivering it to the staff in the capacity that the system has, the why, like I was like, how the fuck am I trying to teach teachers how to be regulated while I'm dysregulated as fuck myself, and I'm not taking that home to my child, you know? So, like trying to help all these kids and knowing my why was so strong, but seeing how important it was that it starts with us and it starts with the parents to lead that, and as well as that my external world was, you know, when we hear the wipeout, like I'd pushed it away for so long that my external world was literally crumbling, like families, mental health, my sister going through some really hard challenges, and I just needed to be home. And I took leave, and then my body showed me the nervous system response of that I was absolutely crumbling, and I just knew I couldn't go back. So that was my unraveling. And then I started to work with a coach, and then I was like, oh my gosh, the awakening started, and I think maybe I can help people mothers with this, and then that was the domino effect of yeah, it starts with us as the mothers.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Totally, I love that, and how that we get to give this to other mothers as well as our own children. Like that's why it's just so powerful. And so, my slogan when I worked inside schools too was changing schools from the inside out. Because I truly do believe as a collective, if we could work on that, and that's why I I'm also hoping you know, mothers who are teachers they can still do this work on themselves, and a lot of mothers who are teachers come to me, but yeah, it's it's hard because we we need to change as a collective, but people have to be brave enough to do something different. Like, I know that people are talking about me like they would just be having a field day. Homeschooling, are you serious? Are you seriously considering homeschooling? Like your children will be weirdos, like this is all the stuff. That I've heard because people are so scared and are unable to be curious because they are so dysregulated or not even aware. Like not even aware that what is happening. And I used to describe it like being in the matrix. It's almost like once you're aware of it, you can't, you can't not be aware of it. Like there's no way you could go back to the old paradigm. And to speak about it, people just think that it's weird. But I think that's why finding communities of people that are doing similar to you is so important because it is the way forward.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, it really is. It really it really is. And you know, the work that you do, you know, around leading yourself and and being that not outsourcing authority anymore. Like, how would you describe that not just as a concept but as like a practice leading yourself?

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Oh my God. Well, one thing that springs to mind, I was talking to Josh about this the other day, and I was having a bit of a giggle. Um, because Josh is probably he has influenced me a lot in this area. So we've been together for like 16 years, and I used to just outsource my trust to everyone else except me. And he is just like, he doesn't, he's almost probably the opposite, too much the opposite. He doesn't, he just runs his own race. Yeah. And I remember we used to have arguments about like he would say, Why do you have to ask your mum permission? Why have you asked your mum everything? Like, just make a decision, just do it yourself. And I remember even when I had RAF, um, I would I remember mum saying, just trust your intuition, like you know what you're doing. And I was like, I don't, I just need people to tell me what to do. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm so I just wanted to get it right, I wanted to be perfect, I didn't want to make any mistakes. And like this is obviously the first red flags around having a bit of anxiety of just trying to do it all right, and um just felt so suffocated and didn't have any of my own time. Like, you know, all the stuff that you go through when you go through matrescence, that's probably not spoken about at all. Absolutely not. Um, and yeah, I think that I was a confident person, but in terms of really trusting myself, I don't think that really happened until I became a mum and started my business because everything is up to me. Like I am the leader for my kids and I am the leader in my business. There's no one else holding me accountable. You know, you have to be so anchored into yourself and doing what you're doing. It's why one connection is one of my values, and I say that from a self-perspective. Like, if I'm not connected to myself, oh my god, it's chaos. Or like my life just starts going in a direction where I don't even know what I'm doing. No, and I experienced this on on um uh I wouldn't say leave. I don't have leave from my business. When you have a business, you you definitely don't have leave. But postpartum with my second, yeah, it was this was the messy middle of moving towards working with mothers, and I wanted to do it for ages, but there was so much resistance because I was dysregulated when we just had such a full cup, we started another company, and it was just it was a bit chaotic. Um, and you can't hear yourself when you are dysregulated, you cannot trust yourself or be curious when you are dysregulated. And that's why that's usually the starting point with all the women that I work with is like, let's get you back to baseline, just get you back in your body so that you can make decisions from a place of trusting yourself because you're actually in your body. You can actually think properly, you are grounded.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Um, and so that's what it means for me. Like, trusting yourself means being able to be in balance and regulated and choosing things in alignment with your values, your desires, your capacity, your family unit, and what is going on for you, not worrying about the state of the world, what everyone else is doing, like to the extent that it's influencing you from a fear and scarcity perspective, but rather you're aware of the world, but you're choosing what feels good for you in your body and your family unit.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh. I have so much to go with that. It's so powerful. And you touched on matrescence, you touched on, you know, the self-trust piece and how much that links to dysregulation. And I truly believe the whole nervous system regulation has been thrown around a lot online now. And I there's a definite so much power in it. But like for those who may get consumed around, oh my gosh, like what does dysregulated mean? Like, what do I need to do to be regulated? Do I need to be regulated all the time? Like, what would you say to those who may even get overwhelmed or fearful around, well, shit, am I failing if I feel dysregulated at times? Like, let's lean into that a bit more because I think it is such a buzzword at the moment. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Yeah. So I spent like most of 2025 dysregulated and like I'm a nervous system coach. Yeah. And so my methodology, my methodology is called regulate from the roots. And it's because a lot of what we see is surface level tools rather than actually going to the roots. And so what drives so much of our dysregulation is, you know, our attachment or our wounds. And, you know, we're all wounded children trying to get our needs met, essentially. So a lot of the work I do is quite deep because we go back and do some healing around those different parts and um use EFT tapping to regulate and also just let go of the emotional residue because most of us growing up didn't have any modelling of emotional intelligence. So we either um, you know, projected our feelings or suppressed them. And all of this builds up over time. And so when often when you have a big life event like having a child, your body just cannot hold it any longer. And and I hear the same at the moment with a lot of people going through perimenopause, you know, menopause, and it's like, oh my god, the bitch is back. Like we're not, we are not holding on to anything now, it's just all out in the open. And um, yeah, so dysregulation means out of balance. So essentially, and this is what this I hardly see this conversation. I really need to speak more about it, but it's about energy management. That's all it's about. So if you look at, you know, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn or being regulated, it's either that the body has too much energy or not enough energy. And so we need to be in the middle where we have a wide window of regulation, which means our nervous system is resilient. So when we do hit stressors or stress, we are able to bounce back like a fern and sort of come back into balance, right? But when we spend too much time in fight, flight, freeze or fawn, then we stay there. And that is our body's way of um you know being able to still operate because that's its baseline, that that's where it knows it's comfortable. So even if it's not serving you, that's where you'll stay. So it it depends on where you're sitting in terms of how to come back into regulation, and it's why I hate the um a lot of the posts online that lack the nuance because it's not straightforward, it's very um personalized, and why I love working closely with people when we're talking about it. But yeah, essentially it means being in balance, so it doesn't mean calm, like it can still be angry and regulated, yeah, and people don't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Um, so there's so many misconceptions, but really it's about being able to be in balance, and because we go through so many changes as a woman, like even looking at iron levels, hormones, emotions that we've never felt, greater demands and less capacity when we have kids, like that's why a lot of us become dysregulated because um and we become chronically, so I should use the terms chronically dysregulated. When you're chronically dysregulated, it means that you are stuck in a certain state that's not regulation, but we are supposed to be dysregulated because that's our body's way of showing us that we're out of balance. Yeah. And when we're able to be emotionally intelligent and aware of our nervous system states, we're able to do something to come back into balance and then you know we regain that energy and we can function. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is this is why I went down the rabbit hole, you know, like teaching children and staff, you know, regulation tools, but yet the environment didn't support it. Like the environment is so so important for the state that you're in, especially little children. And this is yeah, this is why my work's so important is that I truly don't believe kids can learn how to regulate and learn how to be emotionally resilient and understand themselves in an environment like a school with up to 30 kids in a classroom where they're trying to co-regulate off each other. You know, as teachers, like we're we're pretty fucking cooked trying to keep up with all the demands and know everyone's needs and report all the ridiculous outcomes that actually mean nothing in the scheme of things in in allowing them to be a self-trusting best version of themselves. This is why this work I feel is so important, not only for us as mothers, but to lead for our children, you know. And so the fact that you're doing this work with mothers, knowing the impact that it's going to have on their children is like it, there's no deeper, greater work.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

No, totally. And it, like you said, it's that emotional contagion. And I had this realization too, you know, early on I had schools saying, Can you help us design a social emotional learning program? And I'd be like, Yeah, yes, like there's a place for it, but also how about we just focus on the adult first? Because if you can be regulated, then your kids will be. If you can teach them and actually work on your own well-being first, so that you can be regulated, then that that is enough. But there's so much emphasis on like labeling emotions and you know, kids being able to read faces and all of that sort of thing, when that is like the least important thing that they all all like um you know, blowing out candles on your fingers so that they breathe, and what when the educator doesn't know how to breathe. Like I remember starting this work too, and doing my first um sort of breath work in the sense of just breath work tools, yeah. And going, oh my god, I can't breathe. I don't know how to breathe. And then doing hypnobirthing for you know, having my children and going, Oh my god, this is what it feels like to actually breathe into your belly. Yeah. So even starting with that, and that's what I find, especially in the coaching space and what I see, there is so much um just surface level tools and people rushing this work when it's like, hey, actually, we probably need to spend like a month on just learning how to breathe from one to one. And then we can increase like one to two. Yeah. So um it's it's hard because when you're on the inside, it's can feel overwhelming. I don't know if that feels like it feels like that for you, Allie, but I want to teach all of these things and to everyone, and I got swept up in that for sure in my business, like wanting to help everyone and serve everyone. And next minute I had 50 million offers to try and help everyone and then doing nothing well myself. Yeah, so it's a huge learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think that's part of my resistance is that in my business, and it's my conditioning from school, is that I did that within the system is like I gave everything and I was giving to everyone, and I wanted to help the staff, and I wanted to help the kids, and I wanted to, you know, help the principal who I could see was dysregulated. And then I was like, oh my god, I'm not embodying any of this myself. How can this anchor? You know, and then also seeing how cooked I was going home to my daughter and my husband, the ones that I love the most. And I was like slowly starting to trickle it out to families too. I was like, we need the parents on board, we need them in here to see what we're doing. And then it was all just like spiraling. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It like starts with me. And I think that's probably I don't know if it's like a a negative, but I I deeply like embody this work probably to my core that I don't share it enough. It's like I I constantly feel like I'm like shedding something new or going through something new that I'm like, okay, I'm on another level now, let's share that part, you know. And I think that people are like, where the where the fuck is she gone now? Because it's just constantly evolving, right? It's like, oh my, and it's parenthood, you know, like you just see these children, they're sponges, they're constantly learning of like our nervous system, they're just constantly reflecting back. And 100%.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

I know I'm often like when I start to go, what is going on with her? Then I'm like, hang on, what is going on with me? Like, how am I showing up? Because every time something has gone on with her, it's because of what's happening within me and how I'm projecting that outside. And so that is conscious parenting, like always being able to be aware of what's going on for you in a compassionate way so that you can do something about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

What would you say to a listener who is feeling like this is like, oh my god, this is overwhelming, like this even more responsibility? Like, how do I be a conscious parent, you know, and not feel like it's so overwhelming? Like, I feel like I'm so dysregulated. Like, what would you say to that, that listener, that parent?

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Oh, I would say that dysregulation is a message. Like any emotion, any sensation that doesn't feel in balance is data. Emotions and sensations are data. So we can always look at it from the lens of like beating ourselves up and the guilt and the shame. And that's even more reason why to learn how to be emotionally intelligent and embody it, because you start to realize that shame and guilt are just messengers, and that's what sort of starts the deconditioning process of understanding your your attachment and your childhood and potentially trauma. Like a lot of the people I work with obviously have faced trauma and often they become mothers and want to do something different. But I also know I also support a lot of neurodivergent women who yeah, have had kids and then they're like, I just don't understand why I'm so reactive and I'm just at capacity and I'm so overwhelmed, and often that's like sensory feedback as well. Like you you may not understand your sensory profile, you may not understand, you probably don't, like most people don't understand all of this stuff because it's not mainstream, it's very um, it's very niche, it's not in the mainstream. But why also I work a lot with business owners because they often understand when they get into business like you, it's like personal development on steroids, like it's just you have to do it, otherwise you don't you don't move anywhere. Yeah. And so yeah, I would just say instead of thinking that you're not doing a good job or something's wrong with you, maybe just get curious about what data it's giving you. Like, are you out of alignment because you're not parenting or living in alignment with your values? Are you have you spent your whole life suppressing your own needs and emotions and it's just finally starting to really come to the surface and you're cracking? Like that is often something that's common when you have a child or when you become a mum. Um, but yeah, there's so many things that it's trying to tell you, but we just often beat ourselves up because we think we're bad mums when the reality is I get dysregulated and still yell at my children from time to time and then go, Oh my god, well, I'm just not listening to myself. What do I need?

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, and that's it. It's like a perspective shift is like instead of not saying dismiss your feelings because that's the whole point in it is to acknowledge the feeling what it's trying to tell me, but also like be able to give yourself so much self-compassion and love because that's what your inner child is asking for right now, and then reflecting that back to your child, right? And this is this is like what and this is where I get jacked up on I probably don't talk about it enough because I'm scared of offending people or I'm scared of like making someone feel a certain way. But I I truly believe that not only did we not have conscious parents because they like didn't learn to hold their emotions, understand their emotions, that they're just messengers as well, and that they're safe to feel and move through. But I truly don't believe school supported us with that. And even as women, you know, understanding our cycle and what it means when our period comes, that it's another beautiful transition of life is like knowing that I was teaching that from a book because I didn't understand that about myself as a teacher, to seeing that that's like a fucking superpower now as a woman and a mother and a partner, you know, to understand that is that is like my call for teaching people or reminding people that if they feel like a I want to homeschool, there's something there for them and there's a reason. So that's for UM. Like I know you're seriously considering homeschooling, you know, but haven't started. Your daughter is five now. What's actually holding you back? Like, is it logistics? Is it fear? Is it something else? Like, what is it for you? Because I know the listener will definitely be with you in this one.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Yeah. Oh, look, all of the above. Um definitely fear of not being people that are doing something different, but more her being ostracized because there is literally like no community here for it, like nothing. Um, a lot of people are looking to me to start the community, and I don't want to. So just because you can doesn't mean you should.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:13

And this is like definitely uh a self-decision around I don't want more on my plate. Yeah, I I'm not in the position to do that right now in this season. Um definitely just logistics of like how will it work? What does it even look like? Like, I probably need to do a little bit more digging into what does it look like to homeschool on a daily basis because at the moment, and I think that it will fit really beautifully into our lives if I'm honest. Like we want to do more traveling, and Josh can work remotely if he um if he needs to at times, and we already have a nanny one day a week and my mother-in-law two days a week, so it it really like slots right in, and obviously being a former teacher, but I also have learned a lot about how teachers actually have to do a lot of unschooling because it's just not the same as okay, cool, so I'm gonna pop my teacher hat on, and I can that would just never work with my daughter anyway. Like she would just call my bullshit. Like the other day she said to me, Well, we're rushing because we were late and it was my poor planning. And I was like, We're in um a hotel trying to get down to Breckie to check out, and I had uh definitely not set up the morning well and thought I had heaps of time, and then all of a sudden we're in rush mode. So she was she didn't want to get dressed and she wanted me to play the thing, and I was like, No, babe, like no, we're not we're not planning, like we're late. This is mum's fault. I didn't plan my time properly, but I'm sorry, we just need to get out the door anyway. I was being like quite firm and um annoyed, and she was like, Mom, you are being so mean to me. And so in that moment, I could have been like, Oh my god, I am not, just hurry up and do as you're told, you know. That's how a parent might react. But I was like, You are right, I'm being so mean. I'm sorry, I don't want to be mean. This isn't about you, this is about me. I have like, and I really owned it. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, I can just see how if I was to just pop my teacher hat on and be like, right, this is how we learn and let's do the teacher things, it just would not work. Like she wouldn't be engaged, it would be yeah. So I know that that's something too that I'm gonna have to be okay with, is just following her lead a little bit too and being more of the guide because that's not what you're taught either as a teacher. Um, and it's certainly how I probably ended my career, but I remember starting and it was just like, no, it's my way out of the highway. I'm the teacher, you're the kid. Like you need to listen to me. Whereas we definitely don't have that relationship as a parent and a child. But yeah, I think they're probably my main things. The other thing that gets thrown around a lot is like she's not gonna be socialized and she's not going to be great around other kids. And so something about my daughter is that she is sensitive and takes like time to sort of warm to people, and once she's warm, she's just her full self, and I love that. Yeah, and I know that though going into a school and being like that, she's just gonna get squashed. Yeah, so and even though like a lot of people say, Oh, you can do an you know alternate schooling, or there'll be and I'm like, no, mate, there's nothing around me. It's either send her to mainstream or homeschool it, there's no in-between. Yeah. Um, and for me, like a partial enrollment, I'm like, well, what does that even achieve? Nothing, there's no point. Um, and if I was going to send her to mainstream, she'd be on a bus for like 40 minutes in the morning and 40 at night. Huge, huge trip. And most of her class, I think, are boys.

SPEAKER_00 43:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

And there's just lots of decisions that make it, I don't think, a very good fit for us.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Yeah, yeah. There's so much in that that I know so many people would resonate with. I probably shouldn't go into why we both said um as former teachers that the hybrid wouldn't work because I hear it often and You know, I from my perspective, I don't believe it would work because the child would feel like they're missing out on more than doing the partial, and the teacher will make it clear that they're missing out, and you know, it is it's like, and then quite often the teacher will say to the parent, you know, they're missing a lot, and it makes them feel a certain way, and you know, we've both been there. So for anyone listening, a hybrid model where say you send your kids for two to three days, because I I hear that. I was like, I'm I'm concerned about the social piece. Like, I'd love if we could do like a hybrid, you know, where it's they could go for a couple of days a week, and I'm like, okay, so what's the purpose in that? Is that just for them to socialize? Is that just for them to be babysat? So you can do something. Like, what is the purpose, the real underlying purpose?

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

And it's it's really just for me, like you said, it's taken so much of my unschooling of what the vision would look like for it to happen. What does it require of us to let go of, to shift and change? You know, like my husband's pulled back from working five days a week, so he has a couple of days or a day with her during the week, and like so I can work on my business at that time. But yeah, it's just like allowing yourself to see different versions and you getting to make it what it looks like. But yes, it comes with, as teachers yourself, a lot of that unschooling of what it's meant to look like and being able to surrender to a child-led rhythm.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Yeah. Yeah, it's just so like people would think that's so bizarre because it's like, well, you're the parent, like, why would you? But yeah, I totally am on the same page. Uh, I wanted to bring something else up. I have a lot of conversations with um women and mothers about this. The fact that my like our choice for potentially homeschooling is from um the perspective of obviously insider knowledge of what goes on in the education system, and it doesn't align with how I want my children to grow as a human being, first and foremost, and it's just very misaligned with what my partner and I want for our kids and who who we want them to be, which is themselves, like their most authentic version, and that just from our own schooling experiences, too, which is one factor. And this is what I wanted to bring up. Like, do you see a lot of people wanting to homeschool from fear? Because I can see how that would be a huge driver. Like, I I think in my reel to I said, I don't want her to be away from me for that long. And someone was like, Well, you have issues because if you need to be with your child, and I was like, mate, that's that's not how I meant it. Like, I meant she's five and she's literally going to be mainly away from me when our values are like us as parents, like you've mentioned, are our children's biggest teachers, especially at this age until you know, especially around 10 when they start to then move more to their peers. But like, yeah, do you I I feel like we're making this decision based off all of our different um nuances, yeah. And not because she also has to be homeschooled in that she needs extra support in this environment. That's not really a consideration for us. Like I said, she is definitely more on the sensitive side. Yeah, I could see that definitely squashing her like sense of self and confidence. Yeah. Um so yeah, do you see a lot of people like making the decision from fear? Like, how do you know whether you're making it from a real place of I think this is best for my child and our family unit versus fear?

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Yeah, some kids love school. Yeah, yeah. Um, mine very similar to yours. My daughter, Eden, can be quite sensitive and has always been. And you know, I always felt a lot of resistance to um sending her to daycare, and I always thought it was something that I had to do because she needed the socialization. This was before I'd done a lot of the deeper, deeper inner work and started my own business helping women with this. But it was that feeling in my body, that feeling in my body of like, this isn't right, but I think I should do it. Think she might like it. I need to give her an opportunity. And yes, she would probably notice that, but there was so much of that. How we as mothers, like you said, the not only the matrescence massive seasonal identity shift that we have, but how early on we're told to be separate from our kids, you know, to sleep train, to, you know, having them in daycare so you can go and work. Like this, this is not, this is actually not the way it's meant to be. And like we're so disconnected from that feeling. And I believe a lot of that was to do with school now that I've done a lot of this work. And obviously, primary caregivers, their experience experienced trauma. But it was like connecting back to that feeling within me of like, this doesn't feel right. And then seeing how much resistance she had, how much she like screamed, and I was like, but you have to go, you know, we're booked in and like you're gonna love it, you're gonna love it, kind of thing, and like forcing her. And we probably did three days in like she fucking hated it. And I was like, okay, something needs to change. She's still young, I don't need to do this. Yeah, and it just came with yes, it's it came with following that feeling. Yes, the feeling for me, but also checking in with her. How did you feel in that environment? What did you think of the place? And you can see how her body settles in places she feels safe and others that like the energy, she's like, no. So being able to connect to that. But for those who I believe maybe make the decision from their fear of like school is fucked for me, or like, um, if they're in deeply in fuck the system kind of thing, it's like we really need to what you said come back to what aligns with our values. I know a lot of like I get the question, well, don't you get scared that you're gonna like indoctrinate your child with all of your beliefs and all of the things that your experiences? And I'm like, they're getting indoctrinated everywhere they are. Exactly. What they're watching, who they're around, you know. So if it's not just who do you want it to be?

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yeah, and what a weight to hold to think that you're the only influence you have on your children. Yeah, because we we don't, but like you've said, it the young years we do. We do for a small period of time. Yeah, and then they start to move to their peace. But yeah, like you said, oh my god, what are they learning at school about the world? That they have to get good grades, otherwise they're not worthy.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah, and that's massive, right? You know, the work that you do with women is how many of us have that unworthiness piece, or I'm not good enough because of maybe the grade that we got in school or the friendship issue that we had, or the boy that didn't say hello to us. And I always recommend this book, um, Dr. Gable Matei or Mate, however you say his name, um, Hold on to your kids. And it's really developed over the years of like how much peer influence is even more relative now than it was in the past. And, you know, parents are so much busier, busier in life, like both parents working, like we've been conditioned to believe that that's success, that both parents like if just a job, not something that lights them up, that they just have to go grind to keep the family going. And it's like, wait, when did we believe that that was right? Like, when did we believe that it was handing responsibility of our children over to other people? Like, when did that happen? And yeah, Gabe Ormaté talks about how much children are raising children inside schools, and then we wonder as parents, they come home and we're like, who is this child and what's happened to them? Because they're being indoctrinated by other kids, you know?

SPEAKER_02 51:45

100%. Yeah, yeah, totally. My sister has that book. I've not read it yet, but I've been recommended it. I've obviously read a lot of his work, but not that book specifically. So I should it's a good one. But um I also want to mention I feel sad that the choices that we're making for our family and our children seem like, well, are really a luxury, like a place of privilege, which makes me really sad because I know if you're listening to this and you're like, well, fuck you, like I can't just I can't just stay at home with my kid, that's all I want. And I think that's the wider conversation too. I've been seeing a lot on social media, which I'm happy to be flooded about. That you know, parents do want to be with their children, but in some family units that is just not possible. Yeah, and the government and childcare centres and schooling is just so misaligned from what parents actually want. So I I just want to recognize that and acknowledge that I do feel super privileged to just have the opportunity to do this, and also we have worked really hard ourselves to do this work in ourselves and to be the people we are to have the opportunity to make these decisions for our family.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Absolutely. And you know, you can't discourage that that it can be such more of a challenge for some families. However, I truly believe that it can be possible for anyone if they're willing to make it happen. You know, like I I from the what I've achieved and where I've shifted and changed and like the things that have happened, I truly believe that like anything is possible. And if the desire, the feeling is there on your heart, there's a mate, there's a way to make it happen. You just need to be willing to look at yourself, look at the fucking hard parts of yourself that are telling you that it's not because yeah, like you said, it I moved through that myself of like the the scared of like, oh my god, are people gonna think that I'm entitled or you know it's easy for you or whatever? And it's like I've put myself through the ringer to get to this level of confidence and self-trust that I can make it happen. Like I've even held back having another child because I don't, I I want to not get this right, but like feel confident in the flow that we're having so that if if and when I bring another child into the world, that it's going to be as seamless as possible because we've anchored into what we're creating so far, you know. And I I actually haven't spoken about that enough. My husband would love to have another child, and there's resistance there for me of like, I just want to get this flowing and know that we can make this happen for Eden before we bring another baby into the world. And yeah, I do, I do believe it's possible for a lot more people than they believe is possible. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Oh, 100%. Thanks for sharing that. Also, just acknowledging that that takes a lot of intentionality and consciousness to make that decision from a really grounded place because yeah, it's being a mum and doing all of this, like it is not for the faint-hearted, that's for sure. But the payoff of it, I think, is so great. And that's what I've seen too is being able to go through the really hard, wobbly, confronting, like extremely painful stuff. Because I often say to my clients, like, what you think though, you're going to go through is not as painful as living a life that you're choosing right now, and then getting to your deathbed and going, Wow, yeah, that is my number one regret that I did not live a life true to myself. Because we know from fact, I don't know what that book's called, but it is one of the you know regrets of people who've passed, yeah, that I didn't live a life true to myself. And that's certainly something that we are willing to do, even if it puts us, you know, as outsiders in our small community. We don't it's just something that we have to be okay with, and I'm willing to be okay with that because I also know it means nothing about me and everything about them, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

And that's it. That that's like the cost of consciousness is the the letting go of so many things that we're deeply attached to and that we think are going to be there forever, or it's it's yeah, willing to put yourself through it to know that you can have everything you desire and you can have what's on your heart and you can make it happen. But yeah, it takes a lot of inner work. This just dropped in for me, Em, and I asked a client this today. If for you, you know, your life right now is a movie and there's an audience watching you, and you've probably heard this question. There's an audience watching you, and they're like yelling through the screen and they're yelling something to you, what would they be screaming at you, the character right now?

SPEAKER_02 56:36

I love that. I really love that. I have seen that question, but I've never been asked it, nor asked it myself. I think that look, I often ask the universe for signs and believe wholeheartedly in angel numbers. I know it sounds weird, but every time I ask, actually, oh my god, this just reminded me.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 56:59

So in Darlin, I saw this social media post and it was something like um ask, what was it? It was uh a post around like it was an eagle and it had something on it like I don't know, ask the universe for a sign or something to know that you're on the right path. So I was like, okay, cool. I'm gonna do this little test and ask the universe to for an eagle. I want to see an eagle to make sure that like what I'm vibing, what I'm doing, my business, my life, my choices, that I'm on the right track. Anyway, randomly the next day we just had heaps of time to kill before we were getting on our flight at like six o'clock at night. So um, you know, we went down to the waterfront for lunch in Darwin, and then my friends were like, Do you want to go to the museum or just kill time there, like the historic museum in Darwin? I was like, Yeah, sweet. Yeah, anyway, obviously got there and there was just eagles left eyes. More than women? Oh, yeah. Well, because I'm in a museum, so there was like photos of them. There was a painting, actually, it's on my phone. Oh my god. I need to see if I can find it and read it.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Because it was um, I took a photo of it because where is it? Here it is. Um, this was my favorite indigenous painting, and it was of eagles. And this gave me shivers when I saw it because it was the first thing that I saw. And it said that um Ilwanti Ken is well known for her highly detailed drawings that feature graphic depictions of mother eagles hunting. Uh, they say that birds like these eagles have lessons for women about how to care for one's children. These birds build strong build strong shelters for their family, hunt for food. I'm getting emotional reading it. Um, hunt for food and protect their young from dangers. These mothers are like the birds building strong, safe homes for their children.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

And I I got shivers. Like when I saw it and read it, I was just like, okay, universe, thank you. And then obviously walked around the museum and saw a million more eagles. So I know people probably like, oh yeah, well, you went to the museum, but like there was no plan of going to the museum for that day and whatever. And and I actually forgot that I even asked for the sign until I was there and I read that, and I got shivers and I was like, oh my god. So yeah. Yeah. So I think that people would be shouting to me, you don't see what's coming, but you know right now in your gut that you are on the right path. So keep going and keep your instincts and being curious rather than being the tugboat. That is the biggest lesson I've learned. When we're dysregulated, we often want to be the tugboat and carry everyone, but we just have to choose to trust that it's right.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

Oh, I love that. And yeah, circling back to like what because so much of your work is emotional intelligence, the nervous system. Like you you said to me for a parent, you know, who's leaning into more of the fear-based decision. Like, how would a mother know she's deciding from fear versus self-trust? Like, how would that show up in her body? What would the nervous system be saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

That's such a good question. And I think a very layered and nuanced one because sometimes we can think we're trusting our gut, but we're actually in a place of um a feeling that we've always felt. It can be a trauma response.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:36

So it can be quite difficult too if you're not well versed in actually what your real sensations and feelings are in your body. So that is like I said in the beginning, a lot of the work we do in the beginning is like creating baseline again for a woman's nervous system. So that does include understanding emotions, you know, building your emotional granularity, feeling into the sensations and really healing those parts to a view that you have. So the the worded younger parts that keep popping up. And I think that yeah, it can be hard sometimes to distinguish between if it is my normal trauma response that I'm actually not aware of, or whether it is a gut response that it is right. But I think something that you can't stop thinking about that you keep coming back to and arriving at the same, the same destination, you know that that is actually true. Whereas if you're like toe in, toe out, changing your mind all the time, that's probably more fear, and you're just you you're trying to grab onto something to feel secure and safe. And really, that's something we have to do from the inside. So I think that the more you do it to the easier it is to just distinguish between yeah, what it actually is.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

I love that. How does that relate to you with the homeschooling decision then?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

Yeah, oh I totally know. I I probably need to be a bit of a tugboat for my partner. Thanks for the time. Um, I think that it's more to be honest, we just committed to exploring like, and and this is what I recommend your audience to do too. Anyone else who's considering it, stop feeling like you have to make this decision right now and feel scared about it. Like and just come back to center and talk with your partner about your values and your family unit. And like maybe that's where you start in going, hey, actually, we're a bit disconnected, we're not really on the same page with our family unit. What do we want our family to look like? Like, and expect hard conversations where you you feel misunderstood and that your partner's not on the same page. But hopefully, like your partner and mine, they just uh open their eyes and once they're more aware of the work and understanding and seeing it in you, I think you just be you just have to be, like you said, the lighthouse and pave the way. And hopefully that will help you come together and make a decision from a real groundedness and values-based perspective rather than fear.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Yeah, that's so, so powerful. And I know it's it's a massive, you know, not necessarily block but hurdle that partners, couples need to overcome is if if one is feeling the feeling strongly and it can see the vision and it aligns with the values, but the other's not fully on board yet. Um I still have a podcast to upload with another guest from last week, but she spoke about this of how they sent their son. She they homeschooled their eldest for a year, and then she fell pregnant with her third, and her husband really thought that um their eldest needed to experience school. And she had so much resistance to it, you know, and knew that this was coming up for a reason he hasn't spoken up about much. He's always like believed in their decisions, but this was like really strong for him, and he just believed he had to go. And so when she she got to 44 weeks pregnant, she was doing free free birthing, so on her own, and the bub wasn't coming, and she was so like done with it. And when she made the decision of like, yes, okay, let's give it a go, but baby came within two hours at home the next day, like she had to make that decision. Yeah, but I she I'll share the episode, but I just wanted to share this with you is that it was a much of her partner, her partner's process as it was for the son of he went to school, he experienced it for a little bit. She put a lot of like parameters in place of like, I want him to start on partial. I know that's not great for you know, um, he's learning, whatever, but I want him to like ease into it. I also want him to know that he can ring me at any time, that you know, she really wanted him to ease into it because he was going into year one. So she pretty much provided the school in writing of what she expected. And I don't think many, many listeners would know that they can do that. You know, they might get resistance from the school, but they have every right to do that. Um it was a whole process, but she could see it was much about her husband, her partner's journey of like seeing, oh, this is my conditioning that's coming up. I needed to see that yes, the schooling system isn't right for our son because eventually they pulled him back out. But yeah, I see like in relationship, it's as much each other's journey of you know, deconditioning. And sometimes you might have to explore things that you might not both agree with to see that it's aligns with your values as a family.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

That is such a great part of the conversation because yes, you absolutely have to let go of the chain. I think we all go through that period too where you're really deep in the healing and you can see how you can it's like the matrix, you can see in in there and what's going on, and the other person can't, and you just it, you know, sometimes can butt heads, and the more you try and force it, the the harder it is. And yeah, if you let go and be curious about it, I think that's when things start to open up. And so it always just comes back to self, even in relationship. It's like if you can come back to self, your relationships will will blossom.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Yeah, all a mirror, right? All mirrors.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:07

Oh, I've loved this conversation. Honestly, like when we connected, I knew we were gonna just bounce off each other. If if the listener wants to find you, like find what you're building, follow along, like where can they find you?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

Yeah, come and find me on Instagram at mgental. Um I'm in the process of updating my website because that is still sort of education-based, so definitely don't head there. Come to yeah, come to Instagram, like slide into my DMs and yeah, let's have a chat.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:36

I love that. It's really exciting. And yeah, the work that you're doing with mothers is so important. Like I said, it it starts with us and it's the domino effect from there, and it is it's all from building back that strength and trust within ourselves. And I think the work that you're doing is so powerful and you know, constantly evolving as as we do it too. So ladies, gentlemen, whoever's listening, you can find Em on Instagram. She yeah, does incredible work, but yeah, I just really appreciate you jumping on and connecting, and I can't wait to stay connected.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:08

Go back at you. Thanks for having me on. I can't wait to pop this on my pod too. I know that so many people benefit from your work, so I will send them your way too in the show notes. Um there was one more question I had and now it's just lost upon me. I can't remember. It'll come to me afterwards, then I'll be annoyed.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

That's all right. I probably should have given you time to there anything else you wanted to ask. But no, this has been really good, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Oh, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, she's got it. I was gonna say, if you are thinking about homeschooling and you're hearing, or just even education and you're hearing this from us, like we obviously have been in the system for a long time and have been in leadership. And so these decisions are never made lightly. And obviously, we have a lot of understanding around child development and human behaviour being coaches, and so that's why a lot of our decisions come from that lens. So if sometimes you know you're listening and it doesn't really make sense to you or it seems a bit odd, it's obviously not something that you just consider overnight, like absolutely yeah, based on a lot of lived happening overnight, yeah. And new understanding around what we're we've been lacking in the system, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:27

So yeah, but I I love that, and I truly believe the listener is here because they see something within us that is within them. So I know that you're gonna take what you need from this episode and know that yeah, you can absolutely reach out to us if there's anything you know you want clarity on or you want more information about how we got to that point. But yeah, it's definitely been a process and a journey that we were meant to go on to get to this point to not only, you know, shift what's possible within our family, but for other families too. So I love that reflection, Em. But yes, thank you everyone. Thanks, Em, for joining us. And um, yeah, I'll catch you on the next episode. Thanks for having me. You're welcome.