Episode 17: Grace in Hard Places with Walter Straham and Rosa Fossett-Gilbert

What happens when people choose to show up in places most of the world would rather avoid?

In this episode, Heather talks with Walter Straham and Rosa Fossett-Gilbert of Kairos Prison Ministry about prison ministry, Kairos Outside, and the quiet weight carried by families and loved ones on the outside. This conversation goes beyond labels and assumptions into something much more human: dignity, compassion, second chances, and the power of simply being there.

Walter shares how one phrase — adding value — shaped his path into ministry with incarcerated men and youth. Rosa opens up about attending a Kairos Outside weekend as a guest before returning to serve women whose lives have been impacted by incarceration.

This is a conversation about grace in hard places, hope for people who feel forgotten, and why no one should have to carry pain alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

This is the Heather Patero Show where conversation is calling. Well, welcome to the Heather Patero Show. This is Heather Patero, and you're gonna love today's episode. It is talking about the value of people. And when people hear the words prison ministry, a lot of them quietly assume one of two things. Either this is gonna be really heavy or it's going to feel so specific that it doesn't have anything to do with them. But this conversation is bigger than that. It's about what it means to feel forgotten, what it means to carry something hard in silence, and what it means when somebody shows up with compassion, consistency, and love and refuses to let you walk through it alone. My guests today are Walter Straham and Rosa Fawcett-Gilbert. Walter serves through Kairos Prison Ministry with incarcerated men and youth. Rosa serves through Kairos Outside, supporting women on the outside who are quietly doing time right alongside someone they love. Two different sides of the story, but one common thread: people matter. Walter and Rosa, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Thank you, Heather.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Thank you. So, Walter, I want to start with you. Tell us what Kairos Ministry is.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Well, Kairos Ministry is a lay-led interdenominational Christian ministry involving men and women bringing Christ's love and forgiveness to prisoners and their families. Where we go in and we're changing hearts, transforming lives, and impacting the world. And Rosa, what is Kairos Outside?

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Kairos Outside is part of Kairos Prison Ministry International. And we don't go into the prisons with Kairos Outside. We provide a support weekend for women who have a loved one that is either in prison, jail, or a youth facility. And it's also for women who have been in prison but didn't get a chance to have a Kairos experience while they were inside. So it's a weekend of just support, encouragement, and unconditional love.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Oh, that's wonderful. Walter, you said that years ago during a bike ride across Georgia, that a friend was talking about wanting to instill the idea of adding value to people. And then later in Sunday school, somebody mentioned Kairos, and suddenly those two moments connected to you. That's not random, is it? That's the kind of thing that keeps coming back until you pay attention, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

That is that is so true. You know, it's uh often, you know, when we're having our team formation meetings, and we'll probably talk about this later, uh, you know, people have said that they they they go running away from the prison. They said they would never serve in the prison. Well, I was a little bit different. It was the fact that uh I had that conversation and we were just again just circling around and just talking about adding value in people's lives. And then when that term kairos came up and the guy was talking about kairos, I actually jumped to the occasion as opposed to running away from it. And so, you know, like I said, like, you know, we can give people possessions and money and things of that nature. And they they could blow it, it fades away. But when you spend time with people, that's one thing that they will always remember.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

That's awesome. And how did that work deepen the meaning as you as you went through it?

SPEAKER_02 3:36

It deepened the meaning because as I as I started serving, I started uh working in Kairos Inside, and as I went in to uh work with those, those those men, and then the times that I didn't show up, it was like either if I was on a vacation or work related or something like that, and then the next month when I was coming back, the guys would actually say, Hey, we missed you. And and the fact that and if I had to, if I was gone for a long period of time for whatever reason, it was like, well, wait a minute, what's going on? They had genuine concern about me. And then it it almost came to the point like, hey, if you didn't show up, I wasn't gonna show up. Well, I had to correct that because, hey, it's not about us, it's about your relationship with Christ. And we're only here as a tool to make sure that we can keep that relationship going with you and with Christ, but to let you know people on the outside really love and care about you. And so we don't want you to feel forgotten.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

No, that's wonderful. Now, Rosa, your story starts from a completely different angle. And honestly, that's part of what makes it so powerful. You didn't begin as a volunteer, you began as a guest. In 2010, you attended a Kairos Outside weekend on the receiving end. You were the one being supported, being encouraged, and being loved. And that experience stayed with you so deeply that you came back to do that for other women. That says a lot. So take me back there. What were you carrying in that season of life? And what did that weekend give you that you didn't even realize you needed?

SPEAKER_03 5:12

My husband was in prison and he went through a Kairos inside weekend. And as Walter was talking about how the guys, how the Kairos volunteers go into the prison to support the men and everything, and my husband went through a Kairos inside weekend. And from what he got out of it, he signed me up to attend the Kairos Outside weekend. So I was actually, you might say I was sent to Kairos by my husband. And when I went to the Carlos Outside Weekend, I thought that it was just a weekend for wives and girlfriends. And I found out, well, I besides me being encouraged and receiving just unconditional love, I found out that it wasn't just wives, girlfriends, and fiances. It was mothers and daughters and sisters and cousins and friends. It was for any woman that has a loved one who is either locked up or has been locked up. And it just it was just kind of it was relaxing, it was welcoming because there was no judgment, there was no nobody looking down on you or talking about you because you had someone in prison. It was just acceptance and love. And it was a chance to talk to other women regardless of the relationship with the um the incarcerated loved one, and to realize even though our relationships were different, I was a wife, but you're the you know, you're the mother of a child who's in prison, or your father is in prison. We all had something in common in that we had a loved one who was going through stuff, and we were going through stuff along with them. The visits, the way the guards treated you in the visitation room, the collect phone calls, just trying to take care of life on the outside while still loving and being there for our loved ones who were on the inside. And we realized we had a lot in common to kind of support each other and encourage each other to you know, we can do it, we're doing this together. But it was the overall thing that I got from that weekend was just the the unconditional love. There was so much love and acceptance and just no judgment, it was just love.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

So when did you know and say to yourself, Oh, I want to come back and do this for someone else?

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Okay, the Carol's outside weekend starts on a Friday and we finish up on a Sunday afternoon, and there are different activities and events that happen throughout the weekend. And it was probably after that Saturday night activities, I was like, wow, this is awesome. This is just I love it. But then there are things that happen that Sunday morning also. So by lunchtime on Sunday, I was all in. I was like, Oh, I've gotta come back, I've gotta I've gotta let people that I know know about this weekend and invite them to come and have this experience. And that was the Kairos weekends are numbered, and the weekend that I was a guest was weekend number 25. And I went back on weekend number 26 to serve as a volunteer.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

So, what do you still carry from that experience still?

SPEAKER_03 8:20

Besides the overwhelming feeling of love, I carry beautiful friendships that I have developed with women that were either on that weekend as guests also or on the team, and then women who have become part of my Kairos family that I've met through various weekends. We are on weekend number 44 now with Kairos Outside. And just over the years and the different weekends, just the bond that has been developed with the other ladies on the team, the other volunteers, the guests, and just that genuine love, sisterhood, and friendship. And just that desire to just have as many women as possible to feel just that just be enveloped in Christ's love.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Oh, that's incredible. And you know what I love already is that neither of your stories start with a title or a resume. It you know, it starts with a moment, a nudge, a hard season, maybe a phrase that would not leave you alone. And those are the stories that last, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

So let's help people understand, Walter, what this looks like in real life, because Kairos is one of those things people may have heard of or maybe not, but they don't necessarily picture what actually happens. I actually laughed at this in your questionnaire. When people used to ask what your plans were for the weekend, sometimes you'd just say, fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

I'm going to prison.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

That'll shut down some office small talk in a hurry, won't it?

SPEAKER_02 9:52

So, so yes, so it's uh going into the prison. So basically where I served was Kairos Inside, which is the mill facility. And so we go in. So just imagine we're going in to serve 42 guys, and it's 42, 42 plus of us that are going in. And we go in and it's a for Kairos Inside, it's a three, three and a half day uh what we call a weekend. It's starting on a Thursday night, going all the way until Sunday. And then for the youth, which are also serving, goes from a Friday night all the way until Sunday. So we go in and we do a series of talks. Or we say there's only one talk, and each talk is building off each talk as we go in and we talk about that. So from a from an inside perspective, we do those series of talks, and then we also and we bring in good food. So that's that's the selling thing is the food. So they're coming for the food, and then they walk in on Thursday night. Some of them come in really, really hard. You know, they're not gonna break me. And then, you know, you just sit back and you just see the change evolve by Sunday. You know, all these guys are hugging each other, they're crying, and we write letters to them. And when I say write, we handwrite letters. These are not typed, they're handwrite letters. And we have people throughout the community, you know, making posters. We have kids at churches that are making posters, and we call that agape. And we hang that agape up several times throughout the weekend. And then as we're giving these talks, and these volunteers are sharing their life, and they've become, and what we encourage the volunteer to do is to be very vulnerable. And so we we ask them to share things and then share how Christ has led them out of whatever that that darkness was, because those guys are probably in their darkest moment right now. And so when they hear Walter giving a talk and he and he's saying how he went through this or he did this, and then how Christ has brought him out and how he's still dependent on Christ. Not that we're perfect, but that we're still dependent on Christ and that we're here and we're showing them love. And our motto is listen, listen, love, love. And so when when the participant, we don't call them inmates, when that participant sits down and they're being called by their first name. And then when they see and when we're sitting down listening to them, because a lot of times no one listens, no one cares about what they have to say. And so when they feel that, hey, this guy who doesn't know me sits down and talks with me, eats with me, sings with me, and if it's a youth, play a game with me, says a whole lot. So they leave there thinking, okay, I don't trust anybody, I don't care about anybody. But now a person who doesn't even know me, loves me and cares for me. And then on top of that, throughout every minute of that time that we're there, people are praying for us. And we share, we come in with a prayer chain, and that chain has a name of everybody who is praying for them from the time we start until we leave. And they see that chain, and that chain is wrapped around the room that we're in. And then we also have people who have already gone through the uh the weekend, and those people are praying for them too, and they may see their name, and it's a different color because it's white, and they'll see their name. And we have seen times where somebody who's say in Phillips State Prison knows somebody at another facility because they know that name and they see that name on that chair, on that prayer link or prayer chain, and it's like, and then that touches them again. And then they receive a bag of letters and they see it receive all this different agape, and it just opens up their hearts to say, hey, all these people who don't even know me is showing me love, and they're listening to what I have to say. So that really has a huge impact. Not only the love, not only the listen, but again, I go back to the value. The value add is I'm sitting there, I'm giving up my time. And they know this and they say that. Walter, you have left your family, you have left what you could be doing to spend time with me. And that gare and that carries a long way for them.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

That's wonderful. So it's it's about you know, treating people with dignity in a place that is not exactly designed for it, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Exactly. And then the key thing is we're gonna walk away. So what we're trying to instill into them is to create that Christian environment with inside of those walls. And we have even been told, I've I've been told from the warden, several a couple of wardens, when we walk away from the weekend, the balance on the yard, even two weeks after we have gone, has been lowered. And even before right before we come, the balance starts going down. So even while we're there and even after we have left, the balance on the yard has gone down. And so now these guys have created that that prayer and share groups, and they're praying together and they're sharing together. And then that is spreading out to others who are on the yard as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Rosa, I want you to help us understand Kairos outside as well, because I think this is the part a lot of people never think about. You said something that really stayed with me. Women who have a loved one locked up do the time right along with their incarcerated loved one. Wow, that's a line right there. Say more about that. What are those women carrying that most people never see?

SPEAKER_03 15:17

They are carrying the, I guess, the worrying, the stress. Their loved ones are locked up and they're going through whatever's happening inside the prison. But the women on the outside are worried about their loved one. They're still trying to make sure that their loved one is taken care of, putting money on their books, accepting their phone calls, and still trying to make time to go visit them. If there are children in a home, that makes it even that's like adds another level of stress and involvement. And it's like the women are going, they're taking care of the home and still trying to take care of their loved ones, and they've got so much on them. And then for a lot of women, it's just the fact that and it depends on the institution, but like when you go to visit, sometimes in the visitation room, we are treated like inmates. The um the officers are kind of rude or real short and just kind of not really nice or friendly to us. They're treating us like we've committed a crime, also. And so you're having to deal with all of that. You've taken your time, you've traveled maybe it's an hour, ten hours, whatever, to go visit your loved one, just kind of have some time with that person. And then from the time you check in at the front gate, you're treated like like you've done something wrong. And it can be frustrating on top of everything else you're dealing with. Your weekend, which should be your time to relax and at least breathe for a half a minute, you're spending your weekends visiting your loved one and being treated like you're the criminal, also.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

So, what changes after this weekend in a woman's face, her posture, her voice, when she realizes that she's not the only one carrying this burden?

SPEAKER_03 17:03

I've seen actual like a glow. Kind of some women have by that Sunday afternoon, it's like a glow. It's like there's a a sparkle in their eyes. Some are even just kind of more lighthearted and free-spirited. And for a lot of women that come in on that weekend, a lot of women just go through in general in their everyday lives, just kind of holding their big secret because they don't want anybody to know that they've got somebody who's locked up. Some women they don't care who knows, they tell everybody. Some women just tell a select few. But then there are some women who go through every day hoping nobody finds out that they have a loved one who's incarcerated. But if you just really look at it, all of us in some way have been affected by that. Either we know someone or have someone who is locked up, or we know of someone who has a loved one who's locked up. So it's affects all of us. But there are those women that just carry that burden like that all day at work, whatever their churches. Some people their churches kind of shun them if they have somebody locked up. So to avoid being like shunned or kind of taken for granted or left out, they just don't tell anybody. And they hope nobody finds out. But at least for that Kairos weekend, they don't have to carry that secret. It doesn't matter if somebody finds out because everybody here has somebody in that same situation. So nobody here is gonna look down on you because we all have the same situation. So at least for that weekend, they can relax, kind of let their guard down and just breathe a little while. Now, if they pick that up again on Sunday and take it home with them, that's on them. But at least they've had two days to just just breathe and not kind of hold on to that secret, hoping nobody knows. And it's just a a lot of women are more open by the time the weekend comes, they start out on Friday, kind of maybe one or two answers, one or two word answers, or maybe not even answering at all, not sharing at all. And then by the weekend, they're out talking us. Then there's some that come in kind of distant. And by the time the weekend is over, they're the ones that's laughing and smiling and hugging everybody. It's like just a big load has been lifted off their shoulders.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

That's amazing. So Kairos is basically not just running a weekend, though. It's it is creating a space where people can finally exhale, like you're saying, Rosa, and you know, to tell the truth and lower the guard a little and maybe begin to believe they are not forgotten. And that's you know, that's not a small thing, you know. So let's go ahead, Walter, and let's name this thing that some people think but don't say, okay? Some people hear about prison ministry, and their judgy response is, let's be real, well, they made their choices. I'd rather we talk about that out loud than pretend it's not in the room. So let's let's talk about it. What do people most misunderstand about this work?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

That there are people. They made a mistake. Some of it was intentional, some of it may not have been intentional, um, but they're still people. And and I I would I would admit my first time going in, I was very uh judgmental, if you will. You know, I I often would say, I could see why you're here, I can see why you're here, but I don't see why you're here, right? Just looking at a person the way they look, the way they're well, they all dress the same, but just the way they carry themselves. And so it got me to thinking, you know, you can look at a person and think one thing about them and be totally wrong. But the thing is, with most of them, we have no idea why they're there. I don't want to know why they're there. It's not my it's not for us to know. Uh so we don't know. We just go in, and our whole purpose is just to share the love of Jesus Christ. And we let them know up front, that's what we're here for. You can be a Muslim, and we've had Muslims come in, we've had other denominations come in. And some of them will convert to Christianity, some of them don't. I've I've known guys who have stayed Muslim from the entire time that they were there as I was working at the Kairos inside, even on the youth side. We've had Muslims to come in and participate. And we've even gone in doing Ramadan, if I'm saying that correctly, where they are fasting during the day and they are trying to avoid the good food that are coming, you know, out, because like I said, we're bringing good food, but they they hold to what their belief is. And as I said, some do change. But we go in and we tell them up front this is why we're here. We're here to share the love of Jesus Christ. And what's so impactful about that is because you see black, you see white, you see Catholic, you see Methodist, and everything else. And we let them Know that we're all from these different backgrounds. But what they see is they see this black, they see the black, I mean the white, and you're a Baptist, you're a Catholic, but you guys are laughing and talking. And so that that shows them and teach them another lesson here. Just because we're different, just because we come from different backgrounds, we still can get along. And I think that carries a lot of weight for them. Because in there, a lot of times it's the separation. If I'm black, I need to stay on this side. If I'm a part of this sect, I need to stay here. If I'm a part of this sect, I need to stay here. But when they come into that group or come in for the weekend, they are part of those different sects. But it's amazing how they leave out and they be and they start uh loving on each other. Yes, they're black, they're white, they still start loving on each other. Yes, I'm a part of this gang or I'm a part of that gang. And on the inside, yeah, we would not speak or talk to each other, but they learn to love each other.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Rosa, what do you think people get wrong about the women and families on the outside?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I think a lot of times the women are, like Walter said, kind of there's um some prejudgment. It's either, okay, well, you probably were a part of the crime, or you probably helped them do it, or a lot of time it's why are you even staying with that person? Why don't you just leave them kind of thing? And also, um, we don't know what their loved ones did. And as Walter said, we don't care. It doesn't matter what your loved one did, you're still suffering, you're still hurting, you're still doing time. So we don't want to know what your loved one did, we don't care what they did. We don't ask them that. We don't ask what your loved one did, why are you still with them? How long do they have? Are you going to support them while they're in there? We don't ask them any personal questions like that. If they open up and share that, that's okay. But even still, we don't ask and we don't judge them no matter what their loved one has done. So I think it's kind of a just kind of a why are you still with that person? And a lot of people have that judgment, and some people probably think you're probably just like that person or you're guilty too. And they think that, oh, well, at least you're not in there with them, so it's not as bad on you. Not realize that for some women it's even worse on them than it is on the person that's on the inside.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Walter, let's come back to that phrase adding value. You said we can leave people, money, cars, houses, jewelry, and all of that can disappear. But the time that you spend with someone, that can stay with them for life. And that that's conviction right there. What does adding value actually look like when you're face to face with somebody who feels like they've already been written off?

SPEAKER_02 24:37

I what it looks like is, you know, I could ask if if we would just take a moment and just think of people who have been who has had an impact on your life, you may can remember a few things that they may have said. Maybe it's a, you know, a quote. I I I give an example. I had a father figure in my life. And one thing that he he instilled into me was stress comes from within and not from the outside. And I lived through that throughout my entire career. And I even, you know, when people is all busy and everything like that, you know, I'm not allowing stress to impact me. I'm trying to control that. And so that's that's one thing that I remember from him. But the thing that I remember more often is the time that we spend together. Don't remember all the things, all the places that we went. And the same thing with these guys, the same thing with these youth. They remember, maybe not remember the things that you said, but the time that you came month after month, or every other week, if we were if we're mentoring, they're gonna remember that you came and you sat down with them and you spent time with them. And that's the that and to me, I think that is the key. If we think about people who have had an impact in our lives, more more often than not, what we're going to remember is who was there with me in my lowest moment? Who who was there? Who kept coming back? Who kept showing me love? Who kept listening to what I had to say, or even not saying anything. And some of our in a in our training sessions, we do an activity where we just get quiet. And I do this and I and I don't say anything. And sometimes we get so fidgety because we feel we have to say something, but we don't have to say anything. Just the mere fact that you're there is good enough. And we have to learn to accept that. And then when when we do that, people will appreciate that. And so that to me, I think that's that's the key moment is just showing up for that person time and time again and listening to what they have to say when they want to talk.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Well, speaking of showing up, these weekends do not happen without people. And I know there's probably somebody listening right now who maybe you'll feel a little nudge after hearing this, and they're maybe already trying to talk their self out of it and by saying, I don't know enough, I'm not qualified, I don't know if that's really for me. Rosa, speak to that person from the outside perspective.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Okay. Um, you don't have to know enough, so to speak, because whatever you need to know to be a volunteer with Kairos, we will train you. We have training meetings where the um the training meetings really have two purposes. One purpose is to, yes, kind of teach you or teach the volunteers what they need to know in order to be a part of the team, in order to help support the women for the weekend, whether they're working in the kitchen, in the dorms, or in other areas of the weekend. So that's part of the training is we will teach you everything you need to know in order to help out during the ministry. But the other purpose of the training meetings is to bond for the people on the team to get to bond with each other. We get to know each other, who's gonna be on the team with us. We get to share ourselves and share our lives, and we build that community, we build that bond, we build that one team, that unity. So when the ladies come to us on the weekend and we're doing our different jobs in our different sections, they see a unified group of people whose common goal is to show them the unconditional love of Christ. Whether I'm working in the kitchen, in the dining room, whether I'm serving a table, whether I'm scrubbing a toilet, whether I'm making up a bed, whatever I'm doing, I'm united as part of a team and part of a group with the other people that are on the team. So everything that they need to know, we will teach them. And a lot of people, because being on the team is a time commitment. It's like five training meetings, and they usually take place on a Saturday. And a lot of people, Saturday is their time for that's my day of rest, so to speak, so I can just do some stuff for me. So it's a sacrifice to give up your Saturday to come to training meetings, but it's well worth it. And for those who really want to get involved but cannot make that time commitment to be on the team, they can also volunteer as an angel. And angels are not a part of a team, but they still are very important. Angels help out behind the scenes, they don't interact with the ladies during the weekend. They help out in the kitchen, maybe cutting up onions or fixing plates or something like that in the kitchen, or helping to make up beds, or helping to set up the campground, or pass out supplies and little things behind the scenes. But we need volunteers both to be on the team and also to be angels to help out behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

And it is a blessing. Oh, I'm sure it is. Walter, same question from your side. What why is it important for someone to think about coming to volunteer?

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Well, it's like Rosa said, it's it's impactful to you. It's impactful for what you're going to do. Again, we we we train. We, you know, we use the phrase, we come in as a bunch of Christians, but we become like the body of Christ when we go into the prison or into the youth detention center because of all the training, all the different things. Again, we have a training on being vulnerability, but you know, we have training on being compassionate and all of this. And so as we are sharing our stories, as we get to know each other, we become, you know, so connected. You know, some people say, I have I have my family, and then I have my Kairos family. And that Kairos family is just as strong as my regular family. Because you have, just think about it, you have, you know, men and women serving together that get to know each other. And then they sometimes they they may know you better than your family because of things that you feel comfortable sharing in that team formation meeting that you're not really necessarily comfortable sharing with a family member because you you're afraid of how that family member is going to judge you or whatever. But just think about it. You in a room, if it's the Cairo Sense side, a room full of women or a room full of men. If it's a youth, you know, uh, we're training for a youth detention center. It's a it's a it's a co-ed. It's both men and women serving together, a husband and wife team serving together. And and then again, you're bonding, you're becoming closer together. I've seen it where we come in and everybody's just kind of getting to know each other. And then we have this overnight, or we have this for the youth, we have an overnight and we have this special training. All of a sudden you see almost from night to day of a change in how people interact with each other because now they know each other and they feel comfortable with each other. So coming in and doing it, again, let's get past the judgment. Let's not be concerned about that because, hey, we don't know, we don't care. You're not gonna find out unless the person, you know, shares it with you. Most of them are not gonna share it anyway. And so just go in and look at people as individuals, not because they're behind a prison wall, not because they're behind a detention center, not because their loved one is incarcerated, but just look at them as the person of who they are and then go in to start serving these people who feel like they have been forgotten.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

Well, and I I I have a feeling that both of you would say not only does it bless the participants, but it's gonna bless the socks off of the volunteer who is doing that, don't you think?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Most definitely. Most definitely.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

All right. I want to find a little out a little bit about you guys. Let's start with you, Walter. Your hobbies read like somebody took a Boy Scout, a craftsman, a pilot, and a man who genuinely genuinely enjoys a productive Saturday and combined them into one person. So I need to know what is the most Walter thing that you own?

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Uh, the most Walter thing that I own, I guess when people see and the people who know me will say cycling. I mean, that's what I kind of been known for. But I think I've kind of been since retirement, I've slowly kind of evolved from the cycling piece to RC, RC hobbies, you know, remote control type stuff. And like I said, I'm into trying to learn an electric unicycle and a one-wheel. I'm just, I'm just, you know, like a big old kid.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

So what hobby started small and it is now basically its own department?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Uh the the remote control started small and it grew into my older brother, he told me he said, you in land, air, and sea. And that uh started small and it and it just grew. Because as I started out in one thing, and I saw, oh, they have this, and then I went and got that, and it just it just grew. So the remote control stuff really grew for me.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Do you secretly enjoy being the person who knows how to fix weird things?

SPEAKER_02 34:00

Well, people do come to me when it comes to, you know, electronics, uh, even sometimes, even some of the, you know, I kind of got into crafts type stuff. So I I like to just sit back and try to do things differently and and just try to um, you know, some people say you walk to you're very creative. And and a lot of times it's just a last minute maybe thought, hey, I want to do this just a little, put a little twist on it and make it make it, because I'm my thing is I'm just trying to make it fun and exciting. When we have to come to a meeting, what can we still do? Stand within the guidelines, as we call it, our riverbanks, but just make a look, add a little twist to it just to make it fun and exciting. And then by doing that, you you keep people engaged because they don't know what's coming up next. They know that something's coming, they just don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

All right. Well, you sound like the kind of guy, if we're ever on a uh desert island, we're gonna get off that island because you're gonna be the guy that can help us make sure we get off. Rosa, so I want to ask you, what if you are on a cruise, what is your personality? Planner, wanderer, buffet girl, music girl, or nap girl, or all of the above?

SPEAKER_03 35:18

On a cruise, I am definitely the music girl. I love all the music and all the dancing activities and the buffet girl.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

All right, that's awesome. So you told me you're a country music fan. Are we talking classic country, heartbreak country, boots on the floor country, or all of it?

SPEAKER_03 35:36

All of it. I love Alan Jackson, I love Garth Brooks, I love Tim McGraw, Randy Travis. I love all of them.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Well, well, a shameless plug here. I I teach a wonderful uh up-and-coming country artist. His name is John McDuffie, and you should check him out. He's an amazing guy. He's the actually a um uh I interviewed him, I think it was episode five. So if you want to listen back to that, that episode, but you should check out his music. He he's got a great uh lineup. Well, we've been talking for a while now about the value of a person, not the value of someone at their best, not when life is tidy, not when the story is easy to tell, but in hard places, in the middle of things and the kind of circumstances most people don't want to look directly at. And what we keep coming back to is this that both of you showed up consistently without needing it to be dramatic or recognized. And that's everything. You know, that's what we've been talking about is just being present uh for these people. Walter, what do you most want somebody to walk away from this conversation believing about the work, about the people, and about what any of us can offer?

SPEAKER_02 36:48

I I I think you did it, just just showing up. I mean, we community is key. You know, God put us on this earth not to not individually, but for community. And we all can do different things. Everybody is not good at everything, but everybody can, when we all come together, we all bring our different talents, our different uh activities, and and and based off of those different talents, when we all come together, we can just make it so much better. And so the more people we can get to be involved in this, the larger this uh community and what we're trying to do as far as kairos is concerned will be great.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Rosa, what do you want most uh for the women listening right now to hear and believe, not just as information, but a truth she can hold on to?

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Um, I would think that I would want the women listening to realize that there are people who understand some of what they're going through, that they are not alone, that they can make it through this with help and encouragement and support and that people really care for them and there's a place for them where they can feel accepted and let down their load and just kind of relax and let somebody love them and take care of them and that they are special.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

So if you are carrying the weight of a loved one's incarceration as a secret, you have been holding alone. You do not have to keep carrying it alone. There are people who understand there are rooms made for you and there is support available. Walter, tell us how to get in touch with Kairos.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Okay, so my email address is W as W S and Walter, S Sn.kyros at gmail.com. You can reach, you can reach me there. Also, you can just go out to our website, which is kairos of georgia. That's all one word dot org, and you can find out information there. But but I would also just send you out to kairosprison ministry.org. That way you can get over a complete overview of the of the entire Kairos Prison Ministry, not only just Georgia, but the we're all we're always served. So we're in 37 states now, and then at also 13 different countries. And so all that information is listed there, and they can go in. And then even if they want to find out more information, they can click on a link and take them to whatever state that they want to go to to sign up if they want to participate.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Well, if anyone feels a nudge towards volunteering, Rosa, where where do they need to go? Do they just go to that website?

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Pretty much the same websites that Walter just cited. Also, MattKyros.org is another one that they can go to to get information and to volunteer.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

And you don't have to be an expert, you just have to be willing, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

And one thing I like to add with kairos outside, it is a weekend of support for women. And a lot of people think, since it's for women, that we don't need men. But men can also be a part of the team. Men will kind of help out behind the scenes. There are certain areas that men can work in. They're not there to interfere or to make the women feel threatened or uncomfortable, but they are a vital part of the team. So a lot of people have the misconception of that Kairo's Outside is a weekend for women, so they just need women volunteers. But that is not true. We also need men volunteers to be a part of Cairo's Outside.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Well, Walter and Rosa, thank you for this conversation and thank you for the work, and thank you for reminding us that no one is beyond the reach of grace and love. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

I'm Heather Potero, and this is the Heather Potero Show, where conversation meets calling. See you next time. You've been listening to the Heather Potero Show, produced by Heather Patero Studios. Connect with us on Facebook or Instagram or visit Heatherpatero.com. Until next time, stay creative and deliver the purpose.