#7: “Are You Living to Prove Them Wrong? — Justin Cole on Trauma & Hidden Purpose”

On today’s episode of Capital T, Truth, Larry sits down with entrepreneur and podcast host Justin Cole for one of the most revealing conversations yet.

What starts as a story about dyslexia quickly becomes something deeper…

A conversation about identity, trauma, and the invisible patterns that shape your entire life.

Diagnosed in first grade and labeled “different,” Justin shares how that moment didn’t just affect his education—it created a subconscious loop that drove everything that followed:

his work ethic, his ambition, his success… and his suffering.

Together, Larry and Justin unpack a powerful truth:

👉 The very thing that drives you to succeed might also be what’s holding you back.

From childhood trauma…

to relentless discipline…

to building businesses and chasing success…

This episode exposes how our deepest wounds don’t just shape us — they choose our path.

If you’ve ever felt like you had something to prove…

this one will hit.

🎧 Listen now and start questioning the “truths” you’ve been living by.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Our job here today is to uncover the traumas, not the traumatic experience. So most people connect trauma to the experience that caused it. And this is not a show where you're going to get to listen to these horrible things that happened to Justin as a tourist, right? What we're doing is coming and exploring the strategies that he carried forth from these experiences. And it is in those strategies that we create untruths in our world that bring trauma, suffering, and disconnection. And another way to say that that ties to our title is that at some point in our life, these things were true. And these truths that we developed through these times in our life where we had a perceived loss of control, we unfortunately will hold on to them when they're no longer true. And whenever you live in untruth, you create stress in your life, and that's post-traumatic stress. Because we as a human being can, and on that subconscious level, we can learn any lesson. Her lessons, my lessons, similar, but critical difference. And then is the world gonna reward me for your lesson or is it gonna punish you for it? It rewards me, right? That's how I got to be a navy SEAL. But was being a Navy SEAL a reward or just the ultimate punishment? Right? Is being in the our business the reward and having what has become successful businesses the reward or the ultimate punishment? And so that's where we see that same tenant of our traumas, our superpower, and our dry knife.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Hi, it's Vicky Jungoria. Welcome back to Capital Teachers. Today's episode is an unconscious detail. You here have something at commonest. And that believes everything. Relationships and this and this and that. Even the way you put your body. And then the two questions that contained the trajectory of your life. What if you had nothing? What if it could be? If you've been winning but not feeling free, then this episode, it's for you.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Listeners, as well as uh to any of the new time listeners to Capital T Truth. And in this episode, we have Justin Cole. So Justin is uh connection, and we've actually uh I think we have a deeper relationship now than we did a day and a half ago because we've gotten to spend time together uh yesterday kind of preparing for this and his podcast, and then we just got off of his. So normally I wouldn't have uh the this much background, but like we are both rare in to go on this. So, Justin, thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'm excited also.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yep, and a little nervous because uh this is uh a little uh different format for podcasts than normal. Uh Justin and I got connected through a mutual friend, Mark Devine. So Mark Devine's a uh SEAL uh was uh a very successful SEAL, and I'd say has have had even more success post his SEAL career, being able to bring uh the unique, and I would say his unique take on uh what it meant to be a SEAL, what it took to be a SEAL. And what I love about Mark is that he in order to be a SEAL, there has to be something wrong with you. Uh he has taken all the best things uh for what it takes to perform as a SEAL, but but been able to bring it to the world through uh light-centered being a line. Like that's what I how I define Mark. Do you agree, disagree?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he's literally changed my life. I started out by reading one of his early books, and then I read another book, and uh I've read all of his books, and then I hired him to coach me, and yeah, definitely has changed my life, and as a result, changed the lives of a lot of people who are close to me.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, it's amazing. And so, and now I get the benefit of of being able to work with you through Mark. So, you know, it just keeps on going. Uh, with that, uh as you guys may or may not know, there's uh three formats that we do in this Capital T Truth podcast. So one format is where Vicky, my co-host, and I go through a deep dive on a con a piece of content or a concept. Uh generally, those those pieces of content and and uh concepts come from these type of calls. So the second format is where I bring people onto the show, uh, oftentimes listeners, in this case a fellow podcaster, uh, to be able to dive into the the limitations that they are subconsciously putting into their way. Uh and from uh listeners from the past will know that those come from our traumas, our strategies of survival. So our job here today is to uncover the traumas, not the traumatic experience, right? So most people connect trauma to the experience that caused it. And this is not a show where you're gonna get to listen to these horrible things that happened to Justin uh as a tourist, right? What we're doing is coming and exploring the strategies that he carried forth from these experiences. And it is in those strategies that we create untruths in our world that bring trauma, suffering, and disconnection. And so we're here to really dive into those strategies of survival. The the general concept that we always like to go through is uh what are we trying to do? What are how do we do it in this? And it all starts from that fundamental understanding that trauma is merely a strategy of survival that is being used on a subconscious level in a different environment from the one in which you learned it. And another way to say that that ties to our title is that at some point in our life, these things were true. And these truths that we developed through these times in our life where we had a perceived loss of control, uh, we unfortunately will hold on to them when they're no longer true. And whenever you live in untruth, you create stress in your life, and that's post-traumatic stress. And so our job today is to unearth some of Justin's untruths, some of his strategies of survival. And in that, we'll get to see how that has both given him the gift in the past, right? We call them trauma treats, these treats of performance, as well as how they may limit him from the future. And ultimately, we want to come up with some counter strategies, some counter-truths that will bring more alignment into his life as well as into all of ours. And so uh with that, Justin, we've we've talked enough that that isn't the first time you've heard that. But I'd love, I'd love to hear, you know, now that you've got it three times, like what are the things that stick out for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Well, it's difficult, even with all the coaching I've had from Mark Devine over the years and the 400 plus books I've read at this point, it's still difficult. And more specifically, those books focus almost exclusively on becoming a better person, or they're about successful people, or people who have done incredible things, you know. So even when considering the work I've done, it's hard, it's still a little bit hard to, I guess you could say, accept that definition, which is true of trauma, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:36

So say more what where does it become difficult?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Well, so everyone, everyone in their conscious mind likes to believe, and to most people, they're they don't even think about the separation between conscious mind and subconscious, right? So most people like to believe that they're in control of complete control, yep. Yeah, of every like everything in their life, they're in control, you know, because that's just natural. That's what we want as humans.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

But why do we want it? That's an important question.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Well, it's as a species, we're we're genetically like we're programmed to like naturally cry as a baby to get the help we need from people who can take care of us until we can eventually hopefully fend for ourselves, you know. So we're literally programmed to believe that we're in control on a conscious level, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Well, I yeah, I'd say uh um a clear word is we're conditioned, right? Right, we're conditioned, like and I always say that you know the other half of my world is leadership, leadership development in in big, big and or uh medium-sized companies. And one of the things, a big thing around leadership is that I'll ask in any audience, uh, how many of you are born a leader? And you'll get like some of the people, and uh uh maybe 20% will raise their hand, like, yeah, I was born a leader. Uh and I'll say, Well, how many of you are are leaders? And maybe get half the room. And then I bring up just what you brought up. We are literally born leaders. The if leadership is influencing the behaviors of those around us, right? As a fundamental definition, that's what leadership is. Who are the best leaders in the world? Babies. Like they get every adult around them to behave exactly as they want, right? Exactly as they need. And so I think you're completely correct. We are born into leadership, and then we forget that we we forget that we are leaders, like by the very nature of being a human that requires coordination of action with others.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

And ironically, there is like this programming that occurs in in most schools where, and they've done a bunch of research on this, and they've found that when kids are really young, like kindergarten, first grade, there's often very little uh separation between the kids who seem to be the smartest and the kids who maybe are on the opposite end of the spectrum. And over time, through years of education through our traditional educational systems, you see the separation because between the the high performers and the ones that aren't so high on the performance side of things, because of their beliefs that are being programmed as they gain the ability to think more, you know. So there's coming full circle to trauma, there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that happens, you know. The nature versus nurture stuff kicks in, and and you you in many cases end up with people who become someone that they weren't when they were born.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Okay, so you just tossed a softball to me, and we're jumping into this right away. Uh yeah, we we're gonna, I don't know, we have a little more small talk, but no, you they just made this too easy for me. So uh we're gonna jump right into this one. Uh something that you said that I very much agree with you in, right? In that through the educational system, there are narratives, right? There are stories that are told to students that then they often take on, right? Both on a conscious and a subconscious level. And as soon as they take on those stories and make them true, right, we now are stuck to certain behaviors. For example, uh, I'm not good at Spanish. I'm not good at languages, I'm good at math, but I'm not good at Spanish. Now, as soon as I put those narratives in place and it becomes true that I'm not good at languages, I am good at math. What am I gonna pick in high school as a option? Or what am I gonna pick in college? Am I picking languages or am I picking math? Oh, I'm going into engineering, right? Why? Because I know I am good at math. Right? I am not good at languages. Now, if you look, how much time did I put into languages versus how much time did I put into math, then you would see that I put in a lot more time with math and very little time in languages. So it's no surprise that I have skill in math and no skill in languages. But with that identity of I am, right, I'm now screwed. So what I know from something that you've you've said, you've shared in in the last couple conversations we had is uh you have dyslexia, right? And so dyslexia creates this because of the way your brain's, it's not because you're stupid, right? It's because of the way your brain's wired, you have difficulty uh from a wiring perspective of reversing words, right? Having difficulty to consume content, especially in a written format, right? Right. How long did it take before that was uh diagnosed, that was recognized in your educational career? First grade. First grade is when they figured it out. So uh do you see that as a fortunate thing or or a bad thing?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Well it's it's cool that you brought that up, especially when considering the nature of your your podcast, because like being I mean, just throwing it right out there, it was traumatic.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Because like, you know, it it was especially then because I mean I I don't know how old you are, but we're not that far off of each other, right? And I would imagine back then that would have been the energy in which that would have been told to you is that you are broken, there's something wrong with you, correct? Not like it's a bit different now. Oh, yeah, yes or no?

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Oh yeah, absolutely. I was uh, as we also touched on in prior conversations, adding mixed fractions in my head before I even got into kindergarten. So it went from this like potential hero type scenario to I didn't literally ride the short bus, but I had to leave class. And like when it came to reading and writing time, I had to leave class and go to special ed and sit with this wonderful lady, Miss Stetson. If you're still out there and you're watching this by chance, you know, thank you. You're you're so awesome and sweet to me on the one hand. On the other hand, I hated it. I hated I hated it so much that I would literally like hide when it was time to go to school in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

I I would so let's this is where I do my work, all right? So okay, we're gonna slow down a little bit. Um you hated it. That's true, right? Why?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Well and you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie, there were there were other things going on at home uh with the family that that were uh more stressful than any adding to the stress, but this the the the what I want to focus on is that being separate being identified as different, and I would say more identified as broken, like these all these kids, they're not broken, you're broken, and then being taken out of class in front of the class and then put with wonderful Mrs.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Stetson. Why for you, what's the story, the the the mean voice in the back of your second grade head, the third grade head, what's that mean voice saying to you when there it's like, oh, it's time to go to special ed?

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, so I should probably back up a couple steps because before that, like before that diagnosis was made, there was this extreme uh confusion because I had gained a decent amount of confidence with with the math skills and the adults saying all these wonderful things about me and my ability to have conversations, uh pretty complicated conversations, apparently. Like I would just follow my dad around and ask him questions about like why is the sky blue? So he's having to get into you know physics and physics and geometry and like all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

And you're following it.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, I I yeah, I and so is like there were kids in my classes that I I never perceived as being brilliant, who were easily writing words and and even reading when I couldn't even and and of course back then, I don't know if they still do it now, because this is a good way to make kids feel this broken feeling is uh they would go around the room and you'd have to take turns reading out loud from the same source. Oh, yeah, I remember that.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

I had such because as as we I shared on your podcast, uh undiagnosed autism, right? And the inability to to uh work or um relate to kids, kids or any humans my age my age or older in a normal way, which created a lot of that feeling of isolation. And so that to me, because I never knew what someone was gonna was thinking or feeling, they were always scary, right? I didn't know what was gonna happen, and so I was terrified to speak in front of the audience because I didn't know if they were gonna yell at me or laugh at me or or celebrate me. And so I know exactly what you mean about that fear of like they'd also do you'd have to stand in line, and it would be like you'd get to the front of the line and they would ask you to spell a word, and then you either had to get back in the line or you got to sit down, and it's like I would be terrified, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah, yeah, it's it it was it was really bad before the diagnosis. So then once that you know extra testing was done, they didn't tell me this, but they told my parents that I was twice exceptional. And I think if they could have told me that and explained what it was, it and for the you know listeners or viewers who don't know what that is, it's it's when there is a learning disability present along with uh relatively high IQ. Um so like again, I I like if if they would have explained it to me, then everything would have made more sense. But without the explanation, I was just confused.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

So to what was that confusion? How did if you had to put words to it, what words would you put to that to that second grade, third grade confusion?

SPEAKER_01 19:47

So uh luckily, luckily I was only in for first grade and like half a second grade, but to answer your question, uh I the words that come to mind are um well yeah, confusion, frustration, um I guess I would say that anxiety would confusion about what? So well, I just didn't understand until like I was eventually on the math team in an elementary school. Um like I I didn't understand, and even then I didn't like really like eventually my parents did tell me like you have a high IQ, a relatively high IQ. I'm not like a genius or anything, but um I I'm up there in the you know top couple percentile. They eventually just to be clear. Well, yeah, I mean I ended up researching it, and um it it it I I do a full breakdown on it and episode zero of my podcast where my wife uh interviewed me. It turns out like 139 or higher is yeah, is uh is the top one. That's the kind of the minimum to be in the top one percent. Yeah, and and I am um I had to take a special IQ test in college because they couldn't figure out like I told them I'm dyslexic, but they were like, uh, yeah, if you wanna and it's like ironic is the word of the day for me. I mentioned it a lot in uh the podcast where you know Larry was on my show. But anyways, it was it was ironic because languages were terrible for me because of this the dyslexia, and they told me that if I wanted to avoid taking a foreign language in college where it was a very competitive school, I had to make sure I got all A's like to get into the business school that I wanted to get into, I couldn't risk taking a foreign language like and and fail to get into this school, like the the the business school within that school. Right. So anyway, yeah. Uh this this this IQ test was like three days long. And yeah, he the this the director of the disability research center there at the the university, you know. Know he they shared the results without the dyslexia, and I I scored like high average, and then he's like, What do you think about that? And I was like, Well, I'm pretty disappointed. And he was like, Why? I was like, Because apparently my IQ has gone down over the years, and uh he was like, Well, so that's with dyslexia, but that's an unfair disadvantage. And here's your IQ when considering your disability. And he he said, 139 plus, you know. So with all that being said, I I still don't believe that like I'm like I've met people who are so smart that they can do extreme calculations in their head, like you know, six and seven seven figure calculations uh with no calculator. So I, you know, I I'm I'm just not one to say that I'm a genius or anything like that. So we're gonna get to that.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

We'll see. By the end of the episode, we might we might change your mind. Okay. We're starting to see the patterns, but let's we're gonna keep going on this. So going back to uh the confusion, right? When you what what did you have to test say to yourself, right, as a little kid, uh, to make sense of what you were experiencing? Well And these may not be true, right? These are most likely not true statements, but those things of those statements of uh something's wrong with me, or or how did you what words did that little kid use to try and make sense of this confusing environment? This this I'm exceptional, but I'm not. I'm broken. Like that's that what I'm hearing. It's like I'm exceptional on one hand, I'm broken on the other.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Right. Yeah. Well, so the like I did not want to be there, as we already touched on. I would literally like they would have to my my poor mom would have to like in some cases like call my grandfather to drive over because my dad was at work and already, you know, he worked a lot, so he was at work, and my grandfather had had to drive over and physically make me go to school.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

So think about what what is why doesn't that little kid want to go to school?

SPEAKER_01 24:12

I just didn't feel like I belong there.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Like okay, so I'm separate.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, well, they're set I get there, and and not only are they separating me, they are doing it in front of other people, and it's clear, it's clear that they're separating me from something's wrong. They're not they're not sending you to the ice cream parlor. Right, yeah, exactly. I'm not getting to go on a a school trip without anyone else, you know.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Um and so within that being separate, um, one, so what I'm hearing first is broken, like something's wrong with me. And then there's the second part of that something being wrong with me is is lead leads to this, well, now I'm separate. And what did that mean? Like that little kid at it would have to say, like, okay, now I'm separate. They all see me as separate and broken. Where did that lead?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Well, it it led to me making it my mission to eliminate that that and prove them wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I sat there and it was like at the beginning of the Simpsons when Bart is like up there at the chalkboard just writing the same things. I will not, I will not, I will not. Like, that's what you do when you're dyslexic in 1986 and you are being taught how to write properly. You sit there and write not just like sentences, but you're writing like a lowercase A a thousand times, then a lowercase B, like pages and pages and pages. So I I mean, ironically, it quickly created discipline uh that most kids probably didn't have at that age. Uh so yeah, I made it my mission to get out of there as quickly as possible. And luckily, like I said, halfway through the second grade, I was I got my freedom back.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

So what I'm hearing, like if we're starting to I'm starting to piece together this loop, right? So this loop is uh they're telling me I'm broken. Right? They're they're telling me something's wrong with me. Well then that play. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Or their their actions are leading me to believe that.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Same thing. Yep, I'm with you, right? Then that leads to that's they're gonna separate me from I'm gonna be separate from the group, and that separation is gonna be interpreted by the group as a bat because of a flaw. Yep, right? Yep. And then from there, what does that mean? Well, I have to work hard because if I work hard enough, if I suffer enough, if I persevere enough, I can be back to I can be back to the group. They'll accept me.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Yep. And so then within that same thing, how does that become a loose? They're telling me I'm broken, that's gonna create a negative perception of separation, right? Other people's looking at me as I'm separate and that's bad. Uh I have to work hard to do it. Um, that would also feed to, well, I have to work hard because something's wrong with me. Not everyone has to work hard, like it reinforces.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I I didn't know, I didn't ask the other kids what they did when I was gone, but I had a feeling that they weren't sitting there writing the same letter over and over again a thousand times. So not only yeah, so not only was I separated, I was being forced to do things that felt discriminatory, even though I didn't even know what that word meant at the time. I just I I knew it wasn't it didn't feel fair.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Like it would feel like you're being punished. Right. And you're being punished for something that you didn't even, it's not your fault.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Right. And it's that also leads to, right? So if if another's, if we just look at this from a structural standpoint, another's assessment of me says that I'm broken, something's wrong, which then leads to my punishment through separation and negative external assessment, more negative assessment. And then now they're gonna punish me by making me do stuff that no one else has to do. I can see how the strategy of I'll prove them wrong comes out of that. Let me show them. You're not gonna break me. Yes?

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah, we yeah, and I guess fortunately for me, uh that you know, I was the fa I got out of there faster. There were only a couple other kids that had to go, and uh, I was out of there a lot faster. So uh I I don't know what that experience did to the other kids and you know what it does. Or like I don't I I honestly don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

We'll have to find one of those kids, have him on the show, we'll figure it out because they'll they'll you it'd be surprising, but like Bobby that was with you, and when Justin got out in a year and he had to spend four years in there, that's the biggest issue of his life. Like, that's the craziest part about humans and traumas. You don't know what it is that triggers it. We don't know what little experience is what creates the seed for our strategies. And now we can see we can see your strategy starting to develop here. I can see how uh there would be a requirement for you to uh suffer, to work hard, to persevere, to prove. Does that does that exist in your life anywhere else or just in first second grade?

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Oh yeah. I mean it it's it's come in waves, you know. I mean, I uh yeah, I I went to I just made an incorrect negative assumption based on that experience that I would never be able to hang in the classroom with the kids that didn't.

SPEAKER_02 30:28

Like I knew that I was out of special ed, but I still knew like exactly what I'm still different, I'm still broken, I have to work harder, all of which is being reinforced. And some people still look at me different, right? So that strategy, that loop, right? That loop of someone else is assessing I'm broken. When they assess that I'm broken, it's gonna create this negative negative experience, negative assessment. Now I'm gonna go get punished and I'll I have to work hard to get my way out of punishment. That loop is just reinforced because you can see that you have to work harder than others.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah, absolutely. And so again, I made an incorrect negative assumption that I would never probably never be able to hang with the kids that didn't have to go to special ed because it continued to manifest the the dyslexia never goes away. Like to like I mean, I even with like all that testing they did when I was in college, to the the the I guess the ending to that story is that after that test, the you know, the director of the disability research center was like, Yeah, he he can take cultural studies classes instead of foreign language because I scored in the second. Yeah, I mean they made me take this test on uh it was an old school cassette tape. Uh that you know, you you they hand you a little test booklet, you go sit in a room by yourself, and you push play on the cassette player, and sure enough, this guy in Africa comes on and tells me that I'm gonna learn how to or try to learn how to learn a little bit of Swahili. And and for anyone that uh has that speaks Swahili or that like knows how it actually like works, I mean it's it's what you see in like movies and t sh TV shows is pretty accurate. I mean it's like a foreign, it's to me like Spanish and French.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

You can at least see the structure of the words. This is just a bunch of noises, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah. So I I literally scored in the second percentile, so um, which couldn't be more polar opposite than than the Ikea. All your performance everywhere else, yeah. Yeah, like it it was just like the best example of proving that I'm twice exceptional. But I don't think there could have been a better better uh example of that. So anyway, yeah, I I continue to struggle with the dyslexia because uh I killed it in math until like the third grade. Uh I could do everything in my head easily, and then long division popped up. And when you say to you know, divide now there's letters, now numbers are being reversed. Yeah, well, that and like you you they say divide uh you know 7,557,327 by 1777. Well, you're not doing that in your head unless you're in that like top one-tenth of one percent of people, you know, and so you have to learn or we had to learn steps. I don't even know if they teach long division anymore. Um, and then as you said, the spelling contests, right? Like I would like almost always be the first person to sit back down.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Like, oh, me too.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I'm right there with you. So yeah, I I switched that that drive to compete to uh athletics. So okay. I just let them, the other kids have the classroom, and I started lifting weights in elementary school. Uh being here in Texas, uh high school football is is the best. Um, so yeah, I just wandered a away from academics and competing in academics to my goal. Uh ironically, I I saw there was a movie, you're a Navy SEAL. There was a movie called Navy SEALs that came out in like 1989 or something like that. You know, so it was either uh Navy SEAL or it was uh the next Troy Aikman, you know, one of the Dallas Cowboys quarterback.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

So now let's just pause there, right? We because I uh one of the important pieces here is to always tie it back to our loop to be able to show how this subconscious loop makes all our choices for us. So we what the the process of your loop led to what behavior I have to work harder than everyone else to prove that I'm not broken so they'll accept me, correct? That is the outcome, yes. That's the outcome. So then the two things that you just said, what are you consciously choosing this because it's good for your life, or is your subconscious loop saying this is what this is what Justin needs? Maybe see an NFL quarterback. So how does that fit to the loop? Does it fit to it?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

It it definitely does. I mean, yeah, yeah, it's that on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and the quarterback came from watching the Cowboys with my dad, you know, the games, and became a fan and learned more and more about the game. And as you know, and most people know, even if they don't know anything about football, you have to be very good to get to the NFL. And as you know better than anyone, other than maybe other Navy SEALs, I mean, you all know that you're not gonna become a Navy SEAL if you don't work hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

And so and it's not only work hard, but suffer and excel, right? So, what formula did your subconscious latch on to other than that? Oh, the more I suffer, the more I'll excel. See, I got out, I got out quick. Right? And so what this shows is that our purpose in life is picked by our unresolved traumas. Right? I chose to be a Navy SEAL not because it was consciously the best thing for me. I chose it because my subconscious patterns, my subconscious strategies of survival required me to prove that I wasn't flawed and that I was tough enough to keep myself safe against all the dangerous people in the world, which was everyone, right? Because of, you know, you have dyslexia, I have the autism, and the autism made everyone dangerous. So best thing to do if if everyone's dangerous is to get really, really, really tough. Right? If I'm the toughest person around, if I'm the hardest motherfucker around, well then no one can hurt me. But where do Navy SEALs work? Only in places where people try to kill them. That your traumas and my traumas pick our purpose, right? They picked our purpose of saying, oh, we're gonna be the next Troy Aikman or we're gonna be a Navy SEAL. But in both of those environments, all it would have done is reinforce that something's wrong with you, you're not be gonna be accepted. Let me work hard, let me show you, let me prove you wrong. And this, this, I uh, if this is the biggest thing that we get out for the audience, it is in understanding that when you have unrecognized, unresolved traumas, which are just these strategies of survival that live in our subconscious, they will pick our purpose and our person in our life. They have to. It's it's brought forth from the the lowest frequency that I have. Right? So being a Navy SEAL was not a pure expression of me, it was a pure expression or requirement of my traumas. How about now I move on? Like because I know I know the end of the story here. How about business? Like you go to the one of the hardest business schools in the country. Oh, what maybe to prove that that you're good and they're wrong, that you're not broken, that maybe I'll be accepted. And then what what did you what have you done for the last 10, 20 years?

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I have yeah, I mean the the pattern continued. I got into business and I kicked ass, took names, and then the great recession. And suffered, right? How did you work hard or did it come easy for you? Oh no, I I uh I mean, it just it was it was crazy. I I landed a multi-million dollar loan while I was still in business school to open up my first company, and um we we suffered like well, first of all, I suffered so as we already touched on very difficult business school. I I was a triple major and because of course you were, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

No surprise now. We now know why.

SPEAKER_01 39:36

Yeah, I was a triple major because I couldn't find like it was weird because the football, I I it was injuries.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

Like I'm I don't I don't like Well, this is another piece. What do we both share? Injuries. You didn't get to you didn't get to the this the Super Bowl because of injuries, I didn't get to stay as a SEAL because of injuries, and that's based on our fundamental loops. Like, as much as we want to say no, that getting hit that one time is what did it, no, I think it would have been inevitable, but both of us would have had to do that because of the trauma, because of the loops. We had to be broken, right? Both of us were broken, identified. Everyone said you're broken as a little kid. Surprise, surprise that we get broken in our in our jobs.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Right. Yeah, yeah. And it it's like I don't know, I I recently took a uh test from uh Life DNA, and they you know tell you all sorts of things, but for the purpose of this show, I'll mention that it it one of the things that came back in my results is that I don't naturally have a lot of muscle mass. And so like I work out, I still work out seven days a week. Um I bet you don't do easy workouts either.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Oh no, no, I no, I bet you punish punish the hell out of yourself in your workouts.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

I yeah, I mean I'm yeah, Mike, yeah, yeah. It's they're not easy.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Surprise, surprise, you well, you got connected to Mark. Yeah, I was professional at punishing people.

SPEAKER_01 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah. So I yeah, I I couldn't find anything I was as passionate about as football or cars. So I come up with a this idea to um, along with some partners, to open up a classic and exotic car dealership because the that market was white hot right before the right the Great Recession. And yeah, so here I am. Yeah, everyone's got free money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and so here I am, triple major, because I can't figure out what to do with my life. I write this business plan, I start presenting it, and sure enough, the third banker we took the plan to for practice gives us a multi-million dollar loan. So then I drop down from three majors to one to just graduate as quickly as possible because I'm trying to open and run a business while graduating from one of the toughest. It was actually at the time the number one commercial real estate development and development uh program in the country. Uh so which ironically, the Great Recession was caused by the collapse of the mortgage-backed securities market. So here I am getting a degree in a field that no one's gonna be hiring in anytime soon.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

You know, so I uh yeah, I and then starting a business at the perfect time to not have clients, unknowingly, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Yeah, so I I open the or subconsciously, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:44

You're too smart, like where I would say is you're too smart in too good of a school to not have seen this coming on, but you're subconscious, you're subconscious that this is gonna be perfect for us. We get to suffer, we get to to have negative judgment of our bankers, of of the people in our lives. Like we would we'll want to say that no, there is no possible way for me to see this coming, but I could see how this lines up completely with what your subconscious needs.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Well, yes, in some way, uh well, they say mothers are always right, you know. And my my mother was uh like, hell no, this is a terrible idea. You should not you you worked your ass off to get into that university, you worked your ass off to get into that program. You're graduating from one of the best program in the country, and you're gonna go flip cars? Like, that's like crazy, you know. So um, with all that being said, you know, it's hindsight's 2020. And um yeah, so hindsight's 2020, if you understand your subconscious.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Conscious loops. Like I I'll add that second half. Like, and that's where think of if if you and I were having this conversation and we knew we had to look out for you to make choices to prove to others and to make choices that are gonna constantly be a hard uphill battle. Like if you knew that those two things were tendencies of yours, right? To have to prove and to pick uh paths that were very, very hard, right? Could we have made different choices over the last 15-20 years?

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, the injuries prevented the football, that that uh led to business, and then business led to the car business, which for anyone who's watching this, it's a grind.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

It is a grind. Every part of the car business is a grind.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the the analogy I give is that we are dolphins at my company. If if you work here now, and we touched on this in the episode we just recorded for my podcast, uh I'm down to one person on my team right now who doesn't belong on my team, not because they they don't have the skill set and can't perform, but because they don't have the right mindset, and they don't, they they they they I guess to kind of I don't want to go in too many different directions here, but to kind of loop back to what you touched on earlier, like the I don't belong here type stuff in elementary school, just like you, it led to bullying. So not only did I have to go to special ed, I uh I then would it at recess would have a this one kid chasing me around, you know, because I was different. And eventually, as I'm sure you learned too, you have to stand up. Well, you either take it and you and it and you just keep taking it, or eventually you stand up, at least try to stand up for yourself. And um, in that case, I did stand up for myself and it was over pretty quickly because I just kicked him in the stomach and you know, knocked the breath out of him. But yeah, that that pattern has kind of followed me through my life, which again, you're you're I'm sure you're like based on everything I've learned from you already, on a subconscious level, I must have been sending signals to people that led them to believe believe that despite I was being nice to them, the fact that I was being nice to them, that they should not like me.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

But think so, that is absolutely true, right? Now, if we go back to our fundamental loop, right? Our fundamental loop of someone is assessing me as broken, from that, there will be negative assessments of others about me, right? That's your second step. Of course, you're gonna need people that when you're nice show up mean. You need it because it keeps that a true, it keeps that around, it keeps it and because for you, that that second piece of that negative assessment drives to the behavior of persevering, working hard, and becoming exceptional. Right? So you your subconscious connected those two together. And so I'm not surprised that you have built businesses over the last 10, 15 years. I'd be willing to bet that your businesses have done above average in the domain. Yes or no?

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Overall, yes. Yes, they have.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Overall, yes, right. So, and I'll be willing to bet you had a whole bunch of people involved in those businesses causing you trouble.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah. So we there's our loop. We just we just that's how we get it. Like, oh, you get and who had to work the hardest to make sure it was successful? Who had to persevere? You mean yep, right? Who had to prove like against all odds that are self-created, all challenges self-created on a subconscious level, you persevered. And so it's just a manifestation of the same loop, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah, yeah. And so to like, I guess, loop back around, I'm down to one person. I went from a group of people, we we we couldn't even be considered a team. Like, I and I've I consumed a number of uh podcasts that you were on before I asked you to join me on my podcast, or before we, you know, we met earlier for the recording of you being on my podcast. And one of the things I noticed that goes hand in hand with what we're discussing now is that when you got out of the SEALs, you built teams and and expected that civilians would operate like SEALs. And oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:59

It was the most painful experience of my life to realize that not everyone is high functioning, will keep their word, and will never give up.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

And that's all I knew. Right. And that type of like that combination of characteristics put you in the top one-tenth of one percent. Like, if you if you consider your your series of naval academy, officer, SEAL, uh, SEAL leader, like all that you go from that to the civilian world. And in my case, I that first dealership that I created did phenomenal. We had like a few months of of burning through cash to get our marketing flowing, and and then when we hit our our like rhythm before the recession hit, all of a sudden in my mid-20s, it's looking like I'm you know, a self-made multi-millionaire in my life's gonna be fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

And that's but this is the key. This is the key. Say that say that became true. What could not be true? Well, if that couldn't be broken, you couldn't be someone broken, you couldn't have people have negative assessments of you. You you wouldn't have to work hard. So there is no way that that could have turned into that success because you would have had to let go of what everything that got you to there. And that's where our traumas limit us. They're your superpower, right? All the successes that you had in your life came from your perseverance, your hard work, your dedication, the willing to do what no one else is willing to do, right? That gave you your gifts, that's your superpower. And it's gonna make sure you never get to experience full success because then you'd you'd have to let go of the lies. And you don't even know the lies are there, they're they're held in the subconscious.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Right. Yeah, yeah. And it is weird because the car business is like a breeding ground for uh people who are I mean, I hate to say it, and I'm sure colleagues, if they or when they see this, are are not gonna like what I have to say. But if you're successful in the car business, I would say about 90% of the people who are successful, really successful in the car business, are readily willing, able, and feel no remorse for jeopardizing their integrity to make a buck.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

And or I think another way to say that is to benefit at another's cost.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Absolutely. Which, as you know, like even though neither one of us are psychologists, that's a sociopathic tendency. Like, to not feel remorse for taking advantage of someone in a way that leads to their uh monetary loss for your monetary gain and not feeling bad about it or any remorse for it, then you know, there's there's a sociopathic tendency there.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

So or and or, right? So, and or uh there are traumas associated to that. There are untruths that that person is living in, right? And that's the crazy part about our traumas, they're established when we're between four and eight, right? When we're pre-logical, and you never know, you know. I have a twin sister. Our core traumas, like our seed trauma, is the same one, same day, same thing. And because we as a human being can and on that subconscious level, we can learn any lesson, right? Her lessons, my lessons, similar, but critical difference. And then is the world gonna reward me for your lesson or is it gonna punish you for it? It rewards me, right? That's how I got to be a Navy SEAL. But was being a Navy SEAL a reward or just the ultimate punishment? Right? Is being in the car business the reward and having what has become successful businesses the reward or the ultimate punishment? And so that's where we see that same tenant of our traumas, our superpower and our kryptonite. And so at the end of this, we've now established, like, okay, we have a decent idea of the loop that has driven not only your success, but has then driven all this suffering and struggle that you've had in your life. Uh, what would we, what could we do different about it? Like what how because that's why I love the fact that we're having this now is like you're you are in the point in your life and business right now where you can change it. Like it can be different tomorrow than it was for the last chunk of years. And so then I would go to looking at those things, those those traumas, and what are what are the opposites of it? What what would be the inverse of that? Um, what if you didn't have to prove anything to anyone anymore? Yeah, what would that look like in your life?

SPEAKER_01 54:06

Including myself, like oh yeah. Well, yeah, I mean it'd be interesting because I don't like I tell people I don't work out every day because I care about having a six-pack, and I I I have nice cars to punish yourself for being broken. I well ultimately well, yeah. So there's that, and then there's the like you know, they've done all this research and and proven that uh at least 30 minutes of cardio every day is more effective than any antidepressant, you know, and you know, so like yeah, I mean it whether it's yeah, it well you're not doing 30 minutes of easy cardio.

SPEAKER_02 54:47

No, I'm doing I'm doing six and a half minute miles, and I'm doing, you know, so see my I'm bro we're right back to the the BS, like of having to having to prove that you're not broken to yourself and everyone else. So going back to how what kind of differences and decisions could you make coming up if there is nothing to prove there to yourself or anyone else. Well, I'm gonna give you the harder one next. There's that's the easy question. There's gonna be a harder one next, just so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

So yeah, so the the it would be very interesting because I have become, as a result of everything we've d just discussed and other things, naturally very competitive. And I I do um I don't again, I it's not that I do it because I want other people to like to measure your worth. Well, it's yeah, I mean, I get I get like I genuinely like to build things that are cool and help people. Um you know, I I really do. I mean, that's why I mean my my podcast is called No Surrender. Not not I'm not doing it because I want a million or fifty million or a hundred million followers on Instagram. I'm doing it because I want to help people. One person, yeah. Yeah, even if it's that's exactly what I say. Even if we only film 10 episodes and help one person, then that's cool. You know, so but again, I'm not and even that, like I say I'm doing it to help people, but I'm doing it because I genuinely want to, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:24

So yeah, it's um so taking away what do you change or let go in your life that you have been using to prove to yourself and to others that you're not broken. What and you you don't need this say it on here. I'm just saying that this is the question, right? And and this is where we we connect with the audience as well, right? And in the audience, I guarantee there's people out there that live like you and I of trying to prove that they're not broken, right? Someone sometimes said they're not broken, not worthy, not enough, and that they've been they know that working hard, persevering, struggling and suffering will prove it to themselves and to others. I'm like you, of I've been trying to prove to myself my whole life that I'm not broken, right? They said I was, and I've been trying to prove that wrong. And so that's the big like the question if you feel like that, okay. So what do we do with that? What can what benefit can we take out of this? What benefit did Justin give to all of us through his traumas? Is is looking and saying, where in my life could I give up, or what would I give up if I didn't have to prove to myself or others anything? That's a that's a all of a sudden it's like, well, maybe I might sell that business. Yeah, like I don't have to prove anything anymore.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, it and yeah, it's interesting filming these back to back because there's a lot of content that's it's good for both. Uh and one example is you told a story in my podcast about how there was a moment 10 years into your entrepreneurial journey where you you basically like let go of the what was holding you back, like your trauma basically, or trauma, some of some of them at least. And and here I am in this set of businesses that I currently own at about the 10-year mark. And I recently had a similar thing happen. And and more specifically for for your uh listeners and viewers, it was a that again, that moment of surrender. Like, it's not that I'm giving up, it's that I will not continue to let my life be run by the negative cycle of shit.

SPEAKER_02 58:49

There you go, right? So that's the whole piece of what will we give up? We don't have to. What will we? And then this is the second, so the second truth that that in this conversation, the discovery with you, that you've brought into the world for for me, for the audience, for yourself, uh, and this is one I've had to use quite a bit. Uh, and this I hate this question, but I have to ask myself it like multiple times a day. And I often forget too uh because I don't like I don't like this one. So the first one you brought in was, you know, what what would I give up? What would I change if I didn't have to prove anything to anyone or myself? Here's the next one. Uh, what if it was easy? What if this was easy? What would it look like if it was easy? Because you and I don't like easy. We're always looking for the hardest way possible. And so then it's what would it look like if it was easy? How does that one settle with you?

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Well, ironically, and like another thing that I mentioned in the episode we just recorded for my podcast is we were supposed to have this conversation today. Like it was supposed to be today at this time, and we're supposed to be talking about these things today because it is actually like I'm in that transitional period right now, like it is becoming easier.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:14

It's still really hard, and I'm still but could it be like if you are making decisions not from proving to yourself or others, not from suffering, not from having to persevere so that people see your worth, right? And you were making them from a place of the what is how can I create ease, right? What choices can I create that would make this all easy? That's a whole different world.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

Yeah, yeah, it is, and it's common for for well, yeah. Very common for people to get there and then screw everything up again.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Because they need it to be hard and they need to be broken, they need negative external assessments, right? They need to prove to themselves and to others. That's why, as we talked about so well on your podcast, which I'll link below, because I think if you listen to this, you gotta go listen to the no surrender one as well, right? Because these are gonna go really well back, you know, hand in hand. That being able to let go of that attachment to some false future, let go of that attachment to some identity that someone else put on to you, right? Get we have we are the authors of our experience. And if you're in suffering, it's because you want suffering. If if it's in scarcity, it's because you're you want scarcity. Now, where many people are sitting there listening to me saying, Well, I don't want that, I don't want scarcity, I don't want to be in debt, I don't I I want success. Well, your conscious mind wants that, but your subconscious mind doesn't. It wants to stay stuck in its old patterns that has got us to where we are today. And so it is in the exploration and and bringing to the light these patterns. Like, what I love about this for Justin is uh at no point, like he he's never going to look at another decision like thinking, well, is this because I'm trying to prove I'm not broken? Trying to make sure someone isn't negatively assessing me. Is this just to suffer and persevere to prove my worth? Like, you're gonna have to look at every choice through that lens because we shine the light in it, and now you get a choice because you are exactly where you want to be every moment of your life. And most people are like, Well, I'm but I'm not. Well, you are exactly where your subconscious wants you to be, and it's more powerful. But as we ex we shine the light of what I call capital T truth into your world, and you see those things in the corner, well, now we get to make choices, now we get to be the author as opposed to the victim.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:46

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And to to kind of bring in a little bit more of the divine wisdom, Mark Divine Wisdom, within the last few months, we had a coaching call, and he was like, know this, just know this. If you own I could hear him. Yeah, he he was like, if you own a business that does not serve you, then you don't own the right business, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

And and I let's add some more language to that. If you don't own a business that serves your highest self, your conscious mind, and it just serves your subconscious need to suffer or your subconscious need to be safe, then you're in the wrong business. And most of us are. I've been in the wrong business my whole life until right now, right? In the last four or five years, where I get to just bring the light of what I would call the divine truth, capital T truth, truth that is greater than me, into the world and into people's worlds, as opposed to allowing them and me and everyone else to live in our subconscious, lowercase tea truths that just create the same story over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

Yeah, yeah, that's and that's awesome because ironically, when this pot my podcast was born, which again wasn't long ago, I was I pitched it to Mark during our one of our coaching calls, and he used some of the words you just used. Like, like you're calling, what what you're here for, is it the best use of your skill set? And he was like, You have to do this podcast. It doesn't matter if the timing's right, it'll probably never be right. Like, do it because you're capable of so much more than just owning some cool car businesses, you know, and so yeah, it's well you're not you're capable of doing a whole lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

What he's saying is that you're you're called, you're put on this planet to bring a different frequency of light than just cool cars.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Yeah, yeah. And and so sure enough, I followed I followed that up with a question to him. I was like, so if I do this, Mark, will you join me on the show? And sure enough, he was commitment number one. And then speaking to what you just said, uh the Christian singer Amy Lord, uh, we my company works with the the company that she works at, and I I told her about this this idea of of having conversations that you know, of trials, tribulations, and comebacks. And uh she just immediately was like, absolutely, you need to do that immediately, right? And so I I I popped the question to her would you consider coming on for an episode? Yes, absolutely. So what you just said, higher call has this been easy or hard, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

Easy, yeah. It's bringing it's bringing your truth into the world, right? It's you're not, and are you doing this to prove that you're not broken? No, you're doing this to serve, and so you can see how acting in truth and alignment, right? And what we talked about, right? What is doing this podcast for me to prove to anyone, to including myself, that I'm not broken? No. Is this is this going to be hard again? Another hard struggle suffer uphill? No, it's not. It's going to be easy. Okay. We're acting in capital T truth. We're not acting in our lives anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Yeah, yeah. And I guess the kind of the cherry on top for the the story that I was just telling is you look at the name, just the last names of those two first first two guests, Divine Lord. Like what other message from the universe could you ask for to have, you know, like a message that that's the right path to be on?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:33

That is definitely good that I wasn't third because Yacht doesn't do any justice for anything. You know, if we change the T and we put a yacht in there, maybe, you know, maybe we can do something. But that's awesome. So uh just to kind of bring this all together, what we got to explore here with Justin, excuse me. What we got to explore here with Justin was through something as common as dyslexia, right? And did anyone in the school or your parents take any of the decisions they made to harm you? None, right? They all were doing their best, right? But even in them doing their best, that created the opportunity for for eight-year-old Justin to have to figure out what's going on, right? To get see through that confusion. What did eight-year-old Justin figure out? He figured out, oh, I'm broken. They're at least telling me I'm broken. And in them, in them identifying me as broken, other people are gonna negatively assess me. And the only way out is to s is to suffer. Let me, I'm gonna suffer, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna persevere harder than anyone else, I'm gonna prove them all wrong. I'm gonna prove to myself that I'm not broken, right? That loop, did it serve him? Yes, you know, produced all sorts of accomplishments throughout, but also required unbelievable suffering throughout every piece of this, and always limited the full expression of his ability to succeed, right? Still had some success, produced some accomplishments, had to suffer through all of it, and there's always that limitation of being free. And what did we learn as the tools to get out of that? Two big questions. Uh, what if I didn't have to prove anything to anyone or myself? What choice would I make in this? And the second one, which is the one I use all the time and I need to use more, is what would this look like if it was easy? Because in my life, everything's got to be hard. But when you open that possibility, your brain will automatically start doing it. And so thank you, Justin, for being courageous enough to allow your traumas to show us what untruth looks like, and so many of us identify with that. But only through that do we bring truce, capital T truce, into the world for all of us to benefit.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

Absolutely. Yeah, you're welcome. It was my pleasure, and I'm uh excited to I'm gonna do the same thing. I'll link our episode here on your show in my episode. My episode with you on it will probably be out a little sooner, I'm guessing. Um, so when the episode airs, you know, with me here on your show, we'll make sure and link it in there. But but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:21

And within that, do you uh do you have any requests for the audience? Uh any place, anyway, because you gave them a huge gift, right? Through your courage and of sharing these gifts of truth. Uh, I think that that warrants that you you can make some asks if you want.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Yeah, yeah. The main thing is uh, as I mentioned, no surrender. Uh no surrender show.com is the website for for my podcast. That's a it started out as a passion project for my wife and I, again, to to give back, you know, and and we we've quickly gotten a lot of good feedback and landed some great guests like like Larry. And uh you can find us on YouTube, Spotify. We've got a Instagram profile that, you know, these days it's all about followers. We don't have a lot of followers yet. So if you could Yeah, yeah. So if you could follow us there and and heck, even uh we have an option to DM us through Instagram for, you know, if you think you might be a good candidate to come on the show and tell your story, because we like to to dive into pretty, pretty specific stories that paint pictures for for others that are going through trials, tribulations, and come back. So we can relate, hopefully relate with individuals and and help them get through the darkness and and back to the light as as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:42

I love it. Uh thank you for what you do. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me on yours. And uh, like I said, like we said, on yours, we're gonna we'll do round two, uh round two for you, and we can see once you start implementing the the no proving and the ease, I'd love to have you back for uh a recap of what does life look like post-trauma.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:04

Hey man, that sounds awesome. It's it's it more than sounds awesome, it's gonna be awesome because things are gonna things are gonna continue to get better and uh we'll have more great stories to tell.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

I love it. Thank you again for being on the show. Thank you all for listening, and uh take take the ability to identify where these strategies have lived in your life, and then use the tools that we brought in to create truth, uh capital T truth in your life. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

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