Capital T, Truth.

#15: Why Heroes Struggle to Receive Love — Jason Schechterle on Trauma, Honor & Service

• Season 1 • Episode 15

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On this week’s episode of the Capital T, Truth podcast, Larry Yatch sits down with former Phoenix police officer Jason Schechterle, whose life changed forever after suffering catastrophic burns in the line of duty.

But this isn’t a conversation about the accident.

It’s a conversation about what came after.

While most people see Jason’s story as one of extraordinary resilience, Larry explores a deeper question:

What survival strategy did Jason carry forward—and how did it become both his greatest strength and his greatest limitation?

Together, they unpack the powerful connection between trauma, honor, obligation, and service, revealing how the qualities that make someone an exceptional protector can also make it difficult to receive love, support, and connection from others.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why trauma is not the event—it’s the survival strategy
 • The hidden relationship between obligation and identity
 • How honor can become both a superpower and a burden
 • Why many first responders, veterans, and caregivers struggle to receive love
 • The surprising cost of always putting others first
 • How resilience can unintentionally create isolation
 • What it truly means to move from surviving to living

Jason’s story is remarkable—but the lessons extend far beyond first responders.

If you’ve ever felt responsible for everyone around you, struggled to accept help, or believed your worth comes from what you do for others, this conversation will challenge the way you think about trauma, service, and human connection.

🎙️ Episode #15

Why Heroes Struggle to Receive Love
Jason Schechterle on Trauma, Honor & Service

🎧 Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.

👉 TRUTHPATHMASTERY.COM/PODCAST

SPEAKER_02

My a moment uh occurred when I was 26 years old, came up from an ordinary day of work and turned on the news. And the lead story was a Phoenix police officer named Mark Atkinson had just been shot and killed in the line of duty. And you know, that's something that happens uh unfortunately on average 150 times a year uh all across the country. But uh this one was a Phoenix officer, and uh it happened in a precinct where I grew up, and it had a deep impact on me, and I immediately went and applied little demon in there. And you know, we all have our angels and demons, and I I put a post on Instagram a long time ago, and I counted up the days at one point uh of how long I'd been on the earth, and it was like 17,000 and something. And and I wrote about this very topic that every morning I wake up and uh one shoulder I've got my angel, and one short shoulder I've got the demon, and and I'm like, you know what, you guys do this every day, you you go at it. Let me know. I don't know how it's gonna work out. I the the angel right now is 17,000 and late is one every single day. But I think that's what that inner voice, if you and it is there, you are so so right about that because I said this in my speeches at the very beginning. When you lay your head down the pillow at night, I don't care where you are, I don't care who you're sleeping next to, you are 100% alone. Going trying to go to sleep, closing your eyes.

SPEAKER_05

What I'm seeing here is that you uh have lived a life of obligation from a perspective of honor, meaning good of the group before the good of the self, right? Yes. Uh which is a very altruistic way to be, right? Now, that life of obligation that I'm hearing has also created a tug-of-war for you. Uh there's I'm hearing the tug-of-war, right? Where it's I I have to do this, I have to do that, I'd have to do the next, but it's very easy for you to say, uh, I want to do all these things, right? Because of the honor side. So that's where there's this unique, this unique give and take, right? Like, I have obligations. The obligations cause me stress some stress, but uh based on my sense of honor, I'm good with them. Like, okay, give me more. So that's I think the core of us your strategy, what I would call your strategies of survival, right? Your trauma. That core piece is this sense of obligation with honor.

SPEAKER_00

A former police officer whose life came forever, just surviving one of the most catastrophic injuries in law enforcement history. This episode goes far beyond the fire. It's a rough conversation about identity, honor, education, survival, and hidden weight carried by those who spend their lives protecting others. Again, there are these two men of powerful truths. Sometimes the very strategies that make resilient are also the ones keeping us isolated. This is not just a story about surviving infectivity, it's about what happens after your flaws fade, the lights go down, and you're just left alone with your own plot. So if you've ever carried responsibility so heavily that you forgot how to receive support for yourself, this conversation is the one that will save it.

SPEAKER_05

Uh with Larry, and we've got an amazing guest today, Jason. Uh, Jason is gonna be a different experience than what we've had in some of our previous uh guests, in that he actually has a very traditionally uh accepted trauma, right? So many of the guests that we have on here don't really have that traditional traumatic experience in their background, yet we find that trauma still lives in their life because we define trauma in such a different way. Uh what most people think of trauma when they think of trauma is the experience, some sort of horrific experience, which uh Jason definitely had a horrific experience earlier in his life. Uh similar, similarly to me, in that whenever you hear that you're a Navy SEAL that has been in combat for 10 years, everyone pretty much accepts that there have been horrible experiences in our lives. But ultimately, if in the experience that is so traumatic you die, you don't have any trauma, which is super unique, right? If the experience causes the trauma, and you have the experience but you die and you have no trauma, we're actually looking under the wrong rock. The reason trauma exists in our life is based on survival, not the experience. And that's an important distinction because as soon as we know that trauma is dependent on survival, it gives us the understanding that trauma is actually just the lesson of survival. It's a lesson of survival that lives in our subconscious. And as long as the environment we're in stays the same. So the lessons I learned as a SEAL in combat, as long as I stay in combat, they're extremely useful. They actually keep me alive. And because they live in a subconscious level, I'm not aware of them. But as soon as I change environments and go home or I start a business, all of a sudden, these lessons that were learned in combat are being applied in the wrong environment. And once when they were true in combat, they're no longer true in these new environments. And when we live to an untruth, we create stress in our life, and that's post-traumatic stress. And so this podcast is all about being able to unearth these subconscious strategies of survival that both are our superpower, but also are our kryptonite, create our limitations. And so this episode should be very interesting because uh Jason, in the in talking prior to the show, uh, when you hear about his story, you'll definitely see where there was a massive traumatic experience. But he shared, uh he's always wondered why he hasn't suffered from the post-traumatic stress disorder that he's seen in so many other first responders, veterans, uh, and he hasn't suffered from that. And so I think it's gonna be really interesting diving into this to see, well, what strategies of survival did he come up with in surviving this amazing experience that he went through, and how has that become his superpower? And can we see if we can find where it might be a limitation as well? So, Jason, welcome to the show. Uh, thank you for their uh sitting through that little introduction, and uh, I'm really excited to jump into this with you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for having me on. I'm super excited for this. This is gonna be a first for me to do a podcast like this, and I'm looking forward to what it is on Earth.

SPEAKER_05

Do you mind uh giving just and I would imagine based on your speaking and your uh your book, everything that you've done, you spent a lot of time talking about the experience you went through and and getting through it, as well as you had a massive fight after the experience, not just in your health, but with with Ford. And so, do you mind giving just a brief overview of kind of those things? And that's just gonna sound serve as a foundation for us, and then we're gonna dive into your into your mind and your subconscious.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, of course. Yeah, I uh so I live born and raised in Phoenix, Arizona, and uh just one of those kids, great childhood, wouldn't wouldn't trade a uh a thing about it. Thankfully I didn't grow up in uh the world of social media and all the VS that uh is affecting the younger generations now. And great parents, uh siblings, friends, played sports, did all the things, and just always kind of felt like uh a call toward a life of service. I didn't know what. I was always in love with you know any uniform. It could be scrubs, military, police, fire. I didn't care. And you know, now I've since learned you can you can serve, you don't need to be wearing any type of uniform, you can always be serving. And later in my teenage years, really started to gravitate toward law enforcement. So I graduated high school and I ended up uh pretty good at golf. So I went to a small school to play golf, and then that I just lost interest after about six months, realized I wasn't as good as I thought I was, and maybe there wasn't gonna be a big future in that. Wanted some structure and discipline in my life, still having that thought of I'm gonna be a police officer. And uh not just a police officer, but a Phoenix police officer.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Uh and so I joined the Air Force, and it was right around the time of the first Gulf War. Yep. It you know what it was I was starting my second semester at college, and and that went off. And uh, you know, I'm sure you a lot of people are gonna remember the pictures, the the original shock and awe. I was like, damn, that's pretty awesome. But I also knew I'm not crazy enough to join the Marines or Army and do that.

SPEAKER_06

So I did I'm like screwed up.

SPEAKER_02

It's a special breed, and it it's it's permanent for life, but that that is a brotherhood that's pretty cool. Um, but I knew the Air Force, uh better food, better dawns, the girls are prettier. I'm like, yeah, I think I'll do that one. So uh joined the Air Force with the intention of just doing the four years, and uh got to go to some great places. You know, I was in Korea and I did six months at Guantanamo Bay for the 1994 Haitian refugee crisis, so I got a little bit of real-world experience on on what happens when you're dealing with with NATO and and getting in fights all the time and thing, not not fire fights, nothing like you've been through, but it was definitely not what I was expecting as a 20, 21-year-old kid. But did my time and honorably discharged, had uh met and married my wife, Susie, very young, had a couple of kids, very young. So when I got home, the thought of being a police officer pretty quickly faded out of my mind because it was just a thought, you know, it wasn't a calling. And as you're well aware, there are a handful of jobs that if they're not callings, you shouldn't be doing them.

SPEAKER_05

So or you won't do them for long.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So uh I got a really great job uh doing uh working for one of our power companies out here and uh feeling like I was really serving the community with in the midst of the storms or power outages, people on lung machines or uh whatever, you know, air conditioning go on. I just it just always felt good and I was making a a great salary. So uh cruising through life because that's how simple it is, right? You just pick your path and it goes in a nice straight line.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, not for me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, little little did I know. Uh I got uh my aha moment uh occurred when I was 26 years old, came on from an ordinary day of work, and turned on the news, and the lead story was a Phoenix police officer named Mark Atkinson had just been shot and killed in the line of duty. And you know, that's something that happens uh unfortunately on average 150 times a year uh all across the country. But this one was a Phoenix officer, and uh it happened in a precinct where I grew up and it had a deep impact on me, and I immediately went and applied. I was super proud to make it through the process.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, there was probably if I interrupt you for a second. So uh yeah, I can't help myself. Uh very interesting what you just said. So you're you're living the good life, right? Straight line, everything's going pretty good, right? And then you see a news story where uh a police officer is shot and killed, right? So they lose their life in the line of duty, and that's your inspiration to become a police officer. So I'd be interested to hear what is the if we slow those moments down, right? You go back to that moment watching that show, and we slow those moments down, what's going through your head? What's the narrative that goes through your head? Because uh a normal person doesn't see a police officer shot and decide, I want to do that. And so there had to have been some narratives, some things that were going through your head in that moment. I'd love to hear that in kind of slow motion. What what were the little pieces, the narratives that you went through?

SPEAKER_02

I think the little pieces had been building up for years. I had obviously a little maturity at being 26. I was a father and a husband at a young age. I was working a very important job that required uh uh a very focused skill set. And I always recognized no matter what I was doing, whether it was when I was in the Air Force, when I was working with the power company, I just always had this subconscious looking back on it now, like you asked, uh, that all of these jobs, all these careers, they don't start with with me. Okay, and they're not gonna end with me. So I looking back on it now when I replay it in slow motion, it was it was a combination of, you know, Mark, he did not die in vain. He is I'm gonna make sure that he left that seat better than he found it, which I know was his intention. His intention was not to go to work that day and get shot and not go home to his wife and six-month-old Dave at the time. But there's a legacy there, and if I can wear that same uniform and I can always say his name, I can always tell people this is my why. Everybody needs a why. And that is, I think, what just what the pull was like because it was a you have to be doing this job, and you have to be wearing that uniform. And that's what I mean. I went the literally the very next day and applied.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, so uh let me then ask another question. So what I'm hearing you say, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that uh here is this person, Mark, right? This uh human that chose to wear this uniform and serve others, right? And in the service of others, he lost his life. And for you, what I'm hearing you say, is that became um meaningful, right? It became meaningful that this this person who was serving others uh lost his life in doing that. And then what I'm hearing you say is you felt an obligation to step in to continue to honor the his sacrifice, as well as I hear honor the role. Am I correct in what I heard?

SPEAKER_02

You are correct, and thank you for saying it like that because I've actually never used that word even in my private thoughts, but I I guess that it was a sense of obligation, and that's why I did it so quickly. I mean, I I saw this news story, and it it was just an instant feeling and need, and I told my wife, I said, I'm applying for the Fiends Police Department, and I went the very next day and and did that. So maybe it was out of out of an obligation.

SPEAKER_05

There's two words that I said that I think are critical. The first and I want to hear your thoughts on them. What brings what do these words bring up to you? First was the one obligation, like you had an obligation to do it. Uh, I could also say a calling, like you were pulled to do it. Yeah, yes. So then that's one. The second one is honor, right? To honor his sacrifice. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_02

To honor his sacrifice means that his again, his death was not in vain. He's not just a picture on a wall. And uh unfortunately in the military and law enforcement, there are so many over the years that you tend to, you know, memory stayed, people move on in retirement and deal with their part of it differently, names don't get talked about as much. So just knowing every day that I could put on that uniform, get in the same kind of car, go on the same calls in the same city, that was a way to uh to honor him. That hey, uh, you know, uh I've got the I've got the watch now, and I get to go do this uh in a way on your behalf. And of course I'm serving the community, I'm honoring my my own last name by doing the job with integrity and doing it the right way. I want to serve my city that I grew up in, but that that's what honor to me means is all the people who came before you, and that that has played such an important role in the rest of my life when we get into the the fire and the work I did against Ford and and all that, it it was an honor and obligation of the people who went before me, and I have high expectations of the people who come after me. And when I go down and teach at the academy, I mean these young recruits, they get they get an in-your-face version. Uh, I'm not quite the cheerful, nice guy that I am on these shows and in my public speaking. They get a they get a harder version because I have high expectations that you're not gonna dishonor anybody who's gone before you and sacrificed things like I have or the ultimate sacrifice as uh to use the cliche. But uh yeah, and and the calling, of course, like I said, it's just one of those jobs being a teacher, a nurse, uh being in the military in a way that you wanna, you know, one of our biggest heroes in the state of Arizona, as you know, is Pat Tillman. And to give up his multi-million dollar lifestyle football, to look his wife in the eye and say, I gotta go do this, I gotta fight for this country, and then he loses his life, and the very definition of a call. Like you almost you have no choice. This is who you are, who you have to be, and how you have to serve. And that's uh part of I guess our own identity. We have to figure that out at some point, like what we're gonna do. I I am always amazed by how many people I've run into that say, oh, I hate my job, can't live if I have to go to work today, this 40-hour week grind, and it's like, well, then you're just not doing the right, you're not doing the right job. And I feel bad that you never discovered the thing that that makes you who you who you are, makes you why you are. I think the why to me is is always more important than the who. So yeah, you you did it right on the head with the obligation part. I've never moving forward, uh, that makes me smile because I'll have a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05

I might uh I got uh I've heard some some uh as I would say some traumas, some strategies in in your language that we're gonna pull out. So we're gonna see uh we'll see where we end on this one. The the the two things that are sticking out to me, and see, like I said, I can't help myself. We'll get to this story later, but we might not even get to your core story because this is gonna be more important. Uh the two things that I'm hearing in your in your language is obligation and honor. And so honor to me, and let me let me share my distinction for it. You tell me if you agree or not. Honor to me is living to a code of behavior in which the good of the group comes before the good of the individual. What is that? Does that resonate for you?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, it certainly does. It's uh you you are again, no matter what you're doing, you are part of something bigger than yourself, and you are you should have a desire, a dedication, an intentionality of serving others, and you leave a person, you leave the day, you leave the seat, the meeting, the career, everything that you do in life, you leave it better than you found it. Sometimes that's in a a moment, sometimes that's over a course of a 20-30-year career, sometimes it's over the course of a lifetime. So, yeah, that's I I feel very strongly about honor. And I'm sure we have slightly different versions because we've done very different.

SPEAKER_05

The concern for the group for you is very high, right? And that's the key part to it, is that you're saying that it is what I'm hearing you say is it is our obligation to act in a way that leaves the group better without concern for self. That's what I'm hearing. Is that that and that's accurate, right?

SPEAKER_02

That that is accurate, and but again, that has to be that has to be a personal feeling because like when I talk to somebody like you, knowing what you've done at the highest levels in places I've never been to, had no interest in going, fought in divorce, that is a that is an honor that you did for your team, your family, our country, and for my family, even though you don't know us, but you did not have an obligation to do that for me. You do you had you had to have the personal obligation, I believe, to do it for the greater good. Now, maybe the obligation to your team members that you were there with deployed, that's a little you know, we could really get into the weeds on that word obligation, uh, as we we bring it up. But uh so I think we agree on a lot of it, but might look at it a little different on the selfish obligation, which I don't think there's anything wrong with using the word selfish. A lot of people don't, you know, it doesn't mean that I'm just all about me. I'm obviously not, but the selfish obligation for me is going to vary from the selfish obligation that you have because you were not obligated to me, but I am part of this country, I am an American, and you became uh one of our most elite special ops people that so few have ever done in this world in this life. You did that out of an obligation to yourself and and a team and then a bigger cause. So, yeah, there's just a little varying degrees on that, I think. And they're fascinating to me.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and uh what's interesting to me is we speak about this very similarly, whereas I speak about police officers the same way you're speaking about me from the perspective of if I had a choice to be a police officer or a seal, I'd choose SEAL every day of the week because uh for two two big reasons. Um for police officers, every time you show up, someone doesn't want you to be there all the time. Like no one's like, oh great, you're here, right? And so that to me would be horrible. Like that would not be a very pleasant everyday, and even when, like for me, I very much value police officers, as I'll speak to why in a second. But when I get pulled over, I'm scared. Like, I don't want to get a ticket. And so that same sense of even when I honor these uh men and women that put on the uniform and and protect us locally, I still feel scared when they show up, right? So no matter what, anywhere you go, people don't really want you to be there. And uh I got to shoot the bad guys, right? And I got to blow things up, like it's a lot harder for you guys here. That's why I'm like, I will gladly be a SEAL over being a police officer. But what's nuts is I couldn't have done my job as a SEAL without police officers based on the fact that I couldn't have left my family here in the States alone 300 days a year without knowing that they're safe. And the only reason they're safe is because of you guys. And so for me, I 100% speak of it the same way. Like you put on your uniform and protect us in what is one of the most caustic environments in the world, and you do it to provide safety for all of us, which enabled me to go protect the country. I couldn't have done my job without police, first responders, fire.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. That's that's beautiful for you to say that. Uh that I've never heard that before, and uh it makes but it makes complete sense. Yeah, your family can call 9-1, and we're gonna be there and and take care of them, and you and you're gonna get a phone call knowing everything is safe and sound, and uh we go back to our business.

SPEAKER_05

So we're both protectors at heart, yeah. Right? You you you become police officer to protect and to serve, right? I became a seal to protect and to serve, and a protector at heart couldn't go protect if their family wasn't safe, right? Because it's my primary responsibility to make sure my family's primarily safe. So without without the family being safe, I couldn't have left. And so that's where for me it's we speak of it the same way. So uh I I like that. So getting back to uh obligation and honor, um, something that I'm uh interested to hear. Now, you did hold your obligation, like you held your obligations and you acted with honor. But within that, there's gotta be a little voice in the back of your head. Now, this little voice is the mean voice that doesn't say the nice things. What I'm interested to hear, could you give uh give voice to that little voice? What if you hadn't? What if you hadn't held your obligation? What if you hadn't acted acted with honor? What would that little voice have been saying to you?

SPEAKER_02

I think that little voice would have been saying the word regret and making that a part of my terminology, a part of my everyday sense. Yes, you should have never left that other job. Look what you did to your family, look at these injuries that you got, look how you affected your kids, look how you left this department one officer short because you can't go to work today. So I think if that little little demon in there, and you know, we all have our angels and demons, and I even I put a post on Instagram a long time ago, and I had counted up the days at one point uh of how long I've been on the earth, and it was like 17,000 and something. And and I wrote about this very topic that every morning I wake up and on one shoulder I've got my angel, and one short shoulder I've got the demon, and and I'm like, you know what, you guys do this every day. You you go at it, let me know. I already know how it's gonna work out. I the the angel right now is 17,000 and oh they it it won every single day, but I think that's what that inner voice, if you and it it is there, you are so so right about that because I say this in my speeches at the very beginning. When you lay your head down the pillow at night, I don't care where you are, I don't care who you're sleeping next to, you are 100% alone. Going trying to go to sleep, closing your eyes.

SPEAKER_05

Really wait, wait, wait, wait. So, uh and this is where I can't I can't help but but jump in. So uh say that one more time. What you just said. And I'm gonna I'm gonna poke at you if we're on that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. So no matter where you are in this world, no matter what you're doing, no matter who you're sleeping next to, when you lay your head down on the pillow at night to try and go to sleep, you are 100% alone with your thoughts. And it is the single most dangerous place we will ever be, and we are there all the time.

SPEAKER_05

Now, you you use the words you are 100% alone with your thoughts. Is that true?

SPEAKER_02

I believe it's true simply because I think we have we have our public lives. We're they're on display right now for a lot of people. We have our private lives, and then we have our secret lives. And when I say secret lives, I don't mean anything.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, internal I'm hearing you say your internal life.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it things that are so personal that maybe even the people closest to you have no idea. Some of the thoughts that I mean, there's some crazy thoughts that go through our minds. Some of it's like, wow, did I really just think that? Uh so when I say alone, I don't mean that we are alone, forgotten about uh people have shut us out. I not not in any way. We we're not alone physically a lot of times. A lot of us aren't. I mean, I'm I I'm I travel a lot, so yes, I'm physically alone in a hotel room or things like that. But you're not when I say alone and I and 100% alone with your thoughts, it's because you're the only one laying there, you're not talking out loud, the person next to you is trying to go to sleep, the dog's going to sleep, the kids are tucked away, or they're off at college. It everything is going in a different direction, but you are centered right there, and until you drift off to sleep, it's you and your thoughts, and it's just a it's a hell of a place to be for most people, and I don't know about you, but I think for the vast majority, just as a human being, you don't lay there thinking, life is just so perfect, I can't stand it. That's not a thought that's gonna go through your mind. You're gonna think about, or I let me make this more personal.

SPEAKER_06

I will think about okay, there we go. Good job.

SPEAKER_02

I will think about did I did I leave this day better than I found it?

SPEAKER_06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

This is how did I how did I try but fail, fall flat on my face? How did I unintentionally hurt somebody? Did I intentionally hurt somebody else? Well, how am I gonna make if I wasted today? Now, what's what is even the point tomorrow? Now I got to grapple with getting back on track for that, or all of a sudden you find yourself thinking about uh oh, I got this goal and I gotta get there in three months. Well, good Lord, bro, it's 10 p.m. on a Tuesday night, and you're worried about three months from now. Let's let's let's just go to sleep. And these are the just the constant battle.

SPEAKER_05

So what I'm hearing for you, and and I think we keep this. So for me, do I go to bed? And and does my subconscious come into my conscious mind with all the obligations that I have, the the shortcomings that I came up that I may have run that day, uh, the things that I need to do to make sure that that I don't feel regret tomorrow night, right? No, my mind doesn't do that. Uh it has in the past, but it it does it. That's not a regular experience for me. Um that which is remember, we started talking about uh our traumas are merely strategies of survival, they're the operating system of the subconscious. That operating system creates truths in our world. What a truth is, is a way to see the world that you cannot act or think in discord to. So that's an important piece, right? Something is a belief if I believe it or it's a value, but I can act in discord to it, right? Like I believe I'm a good person, but sometimes I act in discord to being a good person. That's a belief. A truth is something that no matter what, I always have to see it that way, and I always have to act in alignment with that. And our traumas create truths that then in some time, some ways service, in some ways don't. One of the truths that I'm hearing in yours, right? So this is where we get to uh what are what are we hearing in yours is is an obligation, right? Obligation becomes a truth, and that I'm hearing that in every way that you see your world and every way you act, you act to hold your obligations. Does that resonate?

SPEAKER_02

It it resonates very well. Uh and I think uh a good way for me to explain that is uh I spend and this touches on what you said between the belief and the truth. I spend a great deal of time out on the road uh doing public speaking. I get paid for it, and I'll do my presentation, and you get all the standing ovations, you get the accolades, you get the oh my gosh, you're so strong, and and that hero word that I don't really like at all. I mean, I was in a car accident. Stop calling me a hero considering there are people I'm talking on talking about.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, sorry, that's bullshit, man.

SPEAKER_02

Well well, I mean, I'm talking to a guy that I would call a hero every day, and you would probably tell me, Will you please shut up?

SPEAKER_05

So Yeah, so we'll we'll touch on that. Like, this is where we start getting to the limitations. So I'm gonna put a pin in that one later. We'll talk about talk about the hero piece later. So uh you're you're in these speeches, you know.

SPEAKER_02

So that yeah, so I I do all these things that in out in the world, I'm obviously recognizable, and uh y'all got this book out, and so I have this very public life, and it is filled with just the being at almost at euphoric levels at times of how you're feeling, and then you know, yesterday is just a great example. I was yesterday was my 25th anniversary of my accident, but I had a lot of other things on my mind, right? It was also the ninth anniversary of my dad's death. He died on the 16th anniversary of my accident. It was the first day of a brand new job for one of my sons who has gone through a serious medical issue and lost his other job four months ago. And so I had that on my mind, and I'm in Baltimore, I'm not at home supporting him. So I've got these words coming out of my mouth to do this presentation and do it well, but in my mind, I'm thinking about some of these other things, and that's the that's almost like the constant for me that that I that I orbit around is uh you know, and I'm a public speaker, and I can't help my appearance is recognizable, but I'm still just Jason, and I have responsibilities uh back at home with the job that I have here, working with a nonprofit for first responders, the responsibility to continue to make our marriage as strong as I can now that we're getting into the later years, the empty nester years, uh, my kids and what they're going through, and checking on my friends, like, hey, oh my gosh, I haven't called this guy in two weeks. I need to do a buddy check. So that is what I mean when I say that I I have this obligation, and those are the kind of thoughts at night that go through my head. And it it's definitely not, I didn't mean to insinuate that it's every single it isn't.

SPEAKER_05

No, I understand.

SPEAKER_02

I I'm not thinking about failures, or I'm just going down the checklist of did I did I I I want to figure out the yeses and then and the no's. How can I get better? What what did I forget? Because I speak from the heart all the time. What did I leave out of this speech? Darn it, that you gotta make sure you always have that in, or or why did I add this new thing? It was a great success. I've been proud of the paycheck I got for my family, and now I you know I'm off to doing this, so it's it's just a constant uh set of obligations that I carry with me. But I I think I always I always have been like that, and yeah, this is such a I knew this is gonna be an uh interesting talk, but once I'm starting to get into the weeds of of that and look back over, uh I have a lot more years behind me than I do ahead of me. That's just the reality of it. But uh that's just always been a constant in my life is is the weight, and it's not a bad weight. I don't use that word to mean it holds me back, it slows me down, it weighs me down. It is just a weight that I choose to carry because everything, it literally everything, right?

SPEAKER_05

Because of the honor side, right? And the selflessness side creates that uh energy to carry the weight, from what I'm hearing with you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, every every single thing in this life, the who and why I am is because of all the choices that I've made. Right. 100%. I am exactly who I've chosen to be, I am exactly where I've chosen to be, and I'm talking decisions I made 20 years ago that had an impact.

SPEAKER_05

You know, that little the ever don't discount the on the TV when Mark's news report was on exactly, right?

SPEAKER_02

And and we can always put words on it. You know, there's we can always talk about fate, we can always talk about destiny, we can always talk about miracles, uh, you know, and God, and and on the flip side, you know, it's just like when people say life sucks, life is hard, I can't handle this. We we we magnify with adjectives when you know it's just life, and if you look at it, you made some choices, you have to have some accountability in this. Some other people have a hand in in things, make some choices that you might not necessarily be in control of, but it's beneficial to recognize that those choices were made and had a riffle effect that crossed into your path and joined with your riffles, and it just keeps going like that.

SPEAKER_05

So, uh what I'm seeing here is that you uh have lived a life of obligation from a perspective of honor, meaning good of the group before the good of the self, right? Uh, which is a very altruistic way to be, right? Now, that life of obligation that I'm hearing has also created a tug of war for you. Uh there I'm hearing the tuga war, right? Where it's I I have to do this, I have to do That I'd have to do the next, but it's very easy for you to say, uh, I want to do all these things, right? Because of the honor side. So that's where there's this unique, this unique give and take, right? Like, I have obligations, the obligations cause me stress, some stress, but uh, based on my sense of honor, I'm good with them. Like, okay, give me more. So that's I think the core of us your strategy, what I would call your strategies of survival, right? Your trauma. That core piece is this sense of obligation with honor. Now, the question that I have for you is what is the cost of that? What has been the cost for you to live in obligation driven by honor? Because there is some cost there.

SPEAKER_02

I don't know that I've ever felt or seen it as a as a cost. It's because the fruits of my labor, the amazing, the stress that I that I do take on, or just you know, comes uh anytime I have anxiety, fear, get in a bad mood, uh, get off course, whatever the I guess that that would be the minimal cost, but there's a bigger one. The output that what little it's costing me to make sure that everybody else around me that I love and care about is better in some way, and I and I can have a hand in that. So it it's it's almost I'm trying to think of the the jobs of the cost. It's it's it's I don't want to say it's like I'm getting the the pay. It it's just it it's it's just worth it to uh it's it's no different than if I want, you know, if I want a really good steak dinner tonight, and I probably can't really afford this week to go spend 120 bucks on the best steak in the city, but I really, I really want it tonight. That's a that's a cost, and it's gonna I'm gonna be stressed. I'm gonna be like, oh maybe uh maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, but I'm gonna do it, and and I'm not gonna regret having done that. And so the cost is always uh I guess the only way I can say it is uh the juice is always worth the squeeze.

SPEAKER_05

That's exactly okay. So that's what I um is very interesting about your strategy. And this is a this is a relatively common strategy, right? So what I call uh the way I I talk about this strategy is issues showing love. So issue showing love is one of the six fundamental strategies that people use to live out their their trauma or their strategies of survival. And issues showing love is where I have to suffer and sacrifice in order to show love to another person. And the more I suffer and sacrifice, the more it's worth it, right? So it's a very selfless way of being, right? The harder it is for you, I bet when you the harder it is for you and you see someone get something from your effort, I bet you feel really good, right? You feel good about yourself. If it was really easy, you wouldn't feel as good as if you had to actually work on it, a little pain, a little little uh perseverance, right? Am I am I on target there?

SPEAKER_02

You're completely on point.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, so this one is one of my favorites. You can imagine being a navy seal, like, oh, let me let's go get tortured and then go to the worst places in the world, right? Like those of us that suffer the best are the ones that get rewarded the most in the SEALs, and so that strategy is one of my favorites, right? Uh, what it does though is creates conditional love. What I mean by conditional love is that I have to earn the love, right? So, on a fundamental level, the more that I give in order for you to receive, the better I feel. That's a trade. The other thing that shows up for that as a consequence is uh those of us that do that don't receive very well. So I would imagine you're what you're someone that uh doesn't feel the most comfortable when people are giving to you. Is that correct or not?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, very correct.

SPEAKER_05

Dead on, right? How did I know that? Uh how dare anyone call me a hero? Like, what how dare you? Like, no, don't recognize me for what I did. I did it out of honor, right? I did it out of the concern for the group, being bet more for me. So don't give me any credit, right? And it was my obligation. So that creates that lack of receiving, creates a one-way flow of love. It's you're allowed to let love flow out of you through your obligation to every single person around you, but you're not allowed to receive. Right? That that creates, and this is this is the kicker. Uh we believe in general that if I want you to experience my love, my care, I have to do something for you, right? I figure out something Jason wants, he likes, I make sure you get a really good steak dinner tomorrow, right? And then you're gonna feel feel love. But in reality, the way that love works is that it is in the receiving that someone feels the love. So when you receive my gift of a great steak dinner tomorrow night, I get to experience love.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so but think of then how selfish we are. So you and me, very selfish, we give, oh yeah, and we get to experience the love of others receiving. But when someone shows us love, oh, we can't receive. Don't call me a hero. Nope, nope, no, get away. No, I haven't done anything. So, what we're actually doing is sucking all the love away from those around us because we don't give them the opportunity to experience the love of showing their love to us and us receiving it. See how that's selfish?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, oh very much. That's why I'm not ever ashamed or scared to use that word. I think I think saying the word selfish is very applicable to us as individuals in in so many ways. And let me put it to you this way and see what you what you hear from me. Uh, because everything you're saying, it I keep thinking about this one central point, and I we haven't gotten into all the details and everything yet, but I will tell you this. After my injury, I was in a coma for two and a half months. Yep, and then when I came out of that coma, I was blind, I was flat on my back, I couldn't really talk, had lost half my fingers in amputation, I was useless. Yeah, and my wife was still there, I was still a dad to two at the time. Now I have three. My parents were there and deeply affected. Why did I get a fire truck commander section and all these other officers in these Ford Crown Victoria's did not? They deserve the same chance to go home. These are the things that are just always on my mind, and so when people give me the accolades, when people and you know, and if I get accolades and applause because I did give a good presentation, you know what, I'll take that because I work really hard to be a good public speaker, it's not for everybody. I absolutely love, love, love being on stage. It's like my second calling, but when it comes to the other things, all the attention that I will get is I can't help but think about well, you're not understanding the hundreds of people who lifted me up, who got me to this place of strength and being grounded and being secure in my opinion.

SPEAKER_05

Pause there for a minute. Yeah, why aren't you worthy of that love that they're showing? Why do you need to pass it off right away?

SPEAKER_02

I think because I feel like I am 2% of my success. People know I was in a very bad accident and I was a police officer, and they just immediately go to, and I mean, I deeply appreciate this about other human beings and the communities that rally around us when something happens, but I I think people take for granted, I get I guess the way I would put it to you is I love to watch the Olympics. Okay, I love to watch the Winter Olympics, and the reason is I can't do any of those sports. I grew up in the desert, I can't ski down a mountain, I'm not getting in a bobsled going 60 miles an hour. I can't do all that stuff, right? And it is fascinating to me to watch, and one of the greatest quotes I think ever I ever heard was Usain Volt, the greatest runner ever. He said, I worked very hard, had a lot of help, a lot of training, all the new training. I I did all that, and all you saw was nine seconds of me setting a record, and now I'm the best in the world. That we don't see the the process that got it there, and I'm just always thinking about these other people in my life who got me to to where I'm at today that I get to be the yeah, I get to be the poster child for it. Well, yeah, the poster child, and and it's humbling, and it's sometimes I I I do have mixed emotions. I mean, I I do I do feel very humbled by it, but then I will also sometimes feel uncomfortable with again there's 33 officers that I can name that didn't get a fire truck in the intersection. Well, you don't understand how what a rock star my wife is. You don't understand the watching these kids grow and what they've turned into.

SPEAKER_05

So let me pause you though. So uh you have this person, you're you are the poster child, you've chosen to be, right? By being on the stage. Uh you you offer insights, you offer the a view into what it means to live with honor, what it live, what it means to to carry your obligations, right? You you provide that opportunity for an individual in the audience. Um that individual receives that gift from you. And then they want to express their love, their connection, their gratitude, right, for that gift that they received. And what I'm hearing you say is that most of the time you you you block it, right? Meaning it doesn't get to land. Now, you're and you're saying, hey, the reason why is because ultimately the that love should be going to other people, should be going to this this other police officer from another intersection. It should be going to my wife, it should be going to the doctors, it should be going to you probably have a list of a thousand people that you would say should go to them before me. But you're the conduit to them, right? To to block that reception of love from this person who's showing it that all thousand of you have earned, right? Not just you by yourself, but all thousand of you have earned that love from that person, and then you're blocking it, as opposed to fully deeply receiving it, and then being the conduit to the thousand other people. And so ultimately what I'm hearing is that this sense of obligation that has been with you your whole life, which is that core strategy of survival, right? Then you trick yourself into saying, well, because I'm doing it with honor, it's not really obligation, right? Which is okay, right? That's our trick. Yeah, but the consequence to that is that you actually live in in some isolation, you live in some being alone, yeah. Yeah, right. That's the cost, the deep cost, right? And then when in even in that alone feeling, right? Because this is what's so crazy about our subconscious strategies. What is the obligation and the honor for? It is to serve the group so you can be part of it. But then in the stopping of the receiving of the love, you get to be separate, which just drives more obligation and more honor. And so you are an endless supply of let me get out there, let me hold more obligation, let me live with more honor. But the in the stopping of the receiving of the love, you still feel alone. And ultimately, what I'm hearing, even in your life, it shows up in that you are alone. You're alone in the bed by yourself in your thoughts, right? You're alone in the hotel room, right? You're you're you're thinking about your family, and and you can even see in your life how many choices you've made that have created the space of isolation, even if it's perceived isolation, all out of honor and obligation. And so what we see here is the culmination of what I said, superpower, kryptonite, right? So the superpower is to live in that sense of honor and obligation produces someone like me, like man, we're we're we're very similar, where we produce um, we leave the seat better than it showed up, right? That's what we do every day, all the time, no matter where we show up. That's a superpower. The kryptonite is we carry the weight alone. We don't get to receive, right? And all that does, it makes sense because then it fuels more honor and obligation, but ultimately we don't close the circle, right? That full circle of love, right? Where your love produces the honor and the complete sense of I choose these obligations to serve the serve the world. The world receives that and wants to give it back to you, and you're like, no, it's okay. I you know, give it to someone else. I'm just gonna stay over here carrying the load. And what it does is block what would be more energy that would flow into service. And so what I what I'm saying, what I'm seeing this, and the only reason I can see this one quite clearly, this is about 10 minutes into our conversation, like, oh, Jason and Larry, we're we're we're very, very similar, right? Is is that sense of allowing the love, the care to flow is only going to strengthen your gifts. It's only going to bring more into the world. But ultimately, what I would love to see for you is a greater sense of peace in doing it, right? And I think that's what's possible. So in hearing this, do you think I'm full of crap? Are you seeing what I'm saying? Were you getting any insights into your subconscious strategies of survival?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, getting a lot of insights. You're certainly not uh you're not full of crap. Uh it's a very different way for me to to see things. It makes complete sense, especially when you talk about being the the conduit, which that's a beautiful thing. Yes, I'm out there, I'm out there making a living for my family. I I do love the the part of giving to others in the sense of all right, you get to hit a reset button, you get to figure out your your why and remember all the choices you've made of what's made you, you know, this is not a story. And I I usually tell people, unless I'm doing a law enforcement training, if I'm doing like yesterday, it was 540 people, business people in Baltimore, and I made sure they understood look, catching on fire and being a former police officer, the two least important parts of this story. That that's not what we're here. I mean, it is my story, and I'm gonna share what happened to me, but there's a whole lot more to my life and and the strategies I have of resilience and and love and being vulnerable, all the things that we need to make us make us strong.

SPEAKER_05

But uh I do a lot of times feel alone, isolated, and I I they don't hurt, they don't yeah, because you and I are gonna use that as fuel to do more good. Yeah, yes, exactly. Limiting. I want to what I want to open for you in this is because I get so excited in this specific moment with you, in that if we open this up for you, you're going to have you're gonna bring 10 times more into the world because the energy is not gonna be coming from you alone, it's gonna flow through you, right? To be able to use think of how much energy, positive energy, love, connection, awareness uh that exists in that room of 540 people when you're done doing your job well. That's a lot, right? Imagine if all of that energy you're able to just receive 10% of it, what's that gonna result in the next time? Yeah, right. So being able to close this loop, right, where the energy isn't just coming from Jason into the world, which has already produced amazing stuff, to be able to connect it to others is gonna create uh I get so excited because it's gonna create so much peace for you, and it's gonna create 10 times more impact in the world. How does that feel?

SPEAKER_02

That that feels really good. And you know, when I reflect on I again, I use yesterday as an example because it's it's so fresh and new, but uh I had two people, uh, very emotional that actually said the one compliment, and I don't ever tell people what this one compliment is because then everybody's gonna say it.

SPEAKER_06

Uh oh, so we'll we'll make sure that we don't we uh edit.

SPEAKER_02

It becomes less meaningful, yeah. Whereas, you know, and I do love when people come up and say, Hey, I you know, I lost my brother a couple years ago in a in a plane crash. And I appreciate that they say that and and tell me I got a lot out of your talk today. And but then I can also relate to them because I lost my brother-in-law a couple years ago in a tragic accident, and then somebody else might say uh they might be so vulnerable, they'll say, I was just diagnosed with cancer, and I haven't even found a way to tell my family yet. And you've opened my eyes to so I do let that stuff come in, and it provides me so much more motivation to I can't wait to get back out on the road. I mean, I've got uh just next week, I'm going to Nashville, New York, Dayton, Ohio, and the Ozarks. I'm looking forward to all of these because I I do take that energy and it makes me want to do it more. I don't want to be in isolation. I think the isolation and the loneliness that I spoke of is like when you're when you come off this ultimate high, right? You you know, you're you're on stage, you're reminding, I'm reminding myself, like, wow, that that really did happen. This story is real. Look at look at these pictures, and I get to brag about my family and and uh firefighters and officers and doctors, everybody who saved my life. And like I don't even need an airplane to get home. I can I can fly home. These are the wind beneath my wings. But then you have to be really careful on how you come down from that high because now I'm going to the airport. Now I'm gonna deal with whatever I am. It took me, I don't know, a total of 12 hours, I guess, to get home. Dealing with two airports delays. Uh, and I'm sure you know, if you want to see the worst of humanity, just go to the airport.

SPEAKER_05

Because I unfortunately have a similar had a similar life to you. I've been changing it over just the last month, but I'm with you.

SPEAKER_02

People will always show their the worst sides of themselves at the airport, and and I don't understand it. But you know, I get on those on those slides or sit, sit there having a beer and a burger, and you know, and I talk to somebody, might have my headphones on, it just kind of depends on what I'm very present with myself, so what emotions I'm feeling, what is going to work for me. But it it's when you come down from that, as I'm sure you experienced you know, on a deployment, and then to come back to what's normal to you, not what everybody else is seeing and saying and and hearing about what's normal to you. You have to be somewhat strategic in how you manage that roller coaster that that you're gonna go through when you have these lives of giving and providing and serving.

SPEAKER_05

Well, and that's where I think we have opportunity. Um we have the opportunity now to be able to take more of that energy that was offered, right? At i in the speech and after, and be able to connect to it in between the sessions, right? How do you keep not necessarily the adrenaline high of successfully doing a big speech, right? Like I get that, and that's fine. But how can we live not in the regret, the the drive to do it again, right? And more into the to reconnecting to feeling the energy, the positivity that comes into it. And I think what will connect well with you is that to be a conduit of it. So in that airport, how can you connect to the positive energy that was in the audience? Bring it in, and then send it out to the thousand people that supported you, really seeing if we can connect that circle, right? In those times of being alone, instead of I was like, I was and very much still struggle to not be like you, where I want to isolate, right? And it's a subconscious level to want to kind of isolate, be alone, be in my own head, versus the the flow that connection to others is universally available to us. Like at any point in time, we can. Uh, you're lucky that you get glimpses of it more than most people, but that that experience is possible for us at all points in our life. And so that would be the biggest thing I would see that could come out of this conversation was okay, keeping in your mind that it isn't just from Jason out, right? It's from Jason out, and then it's to receive it back and then send it out again. That vision of closing that circle is, I think, the opportunity that that we found here in this call, right? Was to be able to leverage the power of the universe, God, love, as opposed to our own energy to create, uh, to serve, to be able to live with honor and fulfill our obligations. That's what I if if there's anything, I was like, okay, what's our morsel this time? It's that. And and when we think of that from a bigger perspective, how many people have you seen that do everything out of their own obligation, their own energy, and how they get tired, right? Where they they live in isolation even though they have people all around them. And so this same thing exists, this same problem or strategy exists for for many, many people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's beautiful. That makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, a lot of sense. So uh good work. And what I love about this, uh, my work is very focused on the actual experience you went through is the least important thing, just like you said. It's the least important thing. What is important is what the lessons that we learned and carried forward from it, uh, the untruths that may have been developed in it. And when we're able to bring those untruths to light and find what we I refer to as the capital T truth in the lesson, that capital T truth benefits the entire world. And it's through our courage of exploring the lessons that we actually bring that benefit into the world. And so uh this is a great example of for the first time I had someone on the show that has this big traumatic experience, and we didn't talk about it once, and I'm very proud of that. Like we got some really good stuff out of this, I'd say best stuff we could get out of this, and uh, we didn't even have to go into the normal show.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah. I didn't have to just sit here and talk about myself and in a way that like here here's here's what happened, here's the the timeline, and there's there's so much lessons that I learned, like ultimately it was your untruth that you brought forward that was the biggest lesson for for you, for me, and for the audience.

SPEAKER_05

And so very much that is a that is right down the center line of of my work because what I found in most of the healing, the post-traumatic stress, uh PTSD treatments I went through is mostly about the getting rid of the the emotional charge of the experience, which ultimately just was harder, like it didn't really help much. And that's why I developed this process to be able to uh unearth the real jewels from the experience without being distracted by by the story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So a lot of new insights, a lot of a lot of things to think about in ways that I that I haven't, and uh I look forward to playing with reflect on this.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so my my challenge to you is the next the next night, right, that you're laying in bed and you start to go through the the analysis of how can I make make it better, what could I have done better, uh, what do I have to do? What am I doing to all that stuff? The next time that comes in, uh if you could make the commitment to me now, I would I'd say be I'd be very excited uh to be able to recognize up there it is, and then from there connect back into the love that was shown to you at some point, maybe in your last speech, or from your your child or from your wife. Connect into that, feel it, and then send it out to the thousand people that have supported you. I if you can commit to that, I would uh I would be very excited.

SPEAKER_02

I will 100% commit to that.

SPEAKER_05

Good. Okay, I'm gonna check on you next time we I come to Phoenix, we're getting a stake.

SPEAKER_01

All right, please please do. Please do. You let me know when you're here, I'll take you uh take you to my favorite place.

SPEAKER_05

I love it. Uh is there anything uh you would like to leave the audience with? Uh and this is the great, great opportunity uh for our audience. They they'll they'll come and check you out, I'm sure, but uh Jason has so much to offer beyond uh the conversation we had today. And so uh is there anything you'd like to share with the audience, final thoughts, uh places to see you, anything you want to uh share with them?

SPEAKER_02

I I think I would just leave the audience with something because I've had such a wonderful support system and and so much help in my life, uh I've allowed myself both by choice and not by choice to be uh very vulnerable. And I think that has given me a tremendous amount of uh of strength and helped build my resilience. And within that, I I want to remind people no matter what you go through, you know, blaming others, seeing yourself as a victim, it only holds you back. And when you when you think about who loves you and who supports you, it's always harder to watch somebody you love go through something than to go through it yourself. And please remember don't plead on people who did not cut you. If they're there to help you and love you and support you, then allow them to do that for you.

SPEAKER_05

That is a perfect uh bow on the topic that we talked about today, right? That it is in the receiving of another's love that they get to experience ours. And so uh thank you for that, for that beautiful bow on this package. And thank you for coming onto the show. Uh so much fun. Uh and thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I really enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_02

Really, really enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05

Okay, everyone. Uh thank you for joining us for another episode. Uh, if you have uh want to check out the other episodes, if there's any other places that we can support you, and and we also offer the opportunity for for our listeners to come onto the show to explore their subconscious strategies of survival. So uh check us out at truepathmastery.com and and if you want to join us on this and and do a deep dive like uh Jason and I did today, uh, just reach out to us. Thank you for uh supporting the show.

SPEAKER_00

I hope you enjoyed this episode. Jason brought honesty, perspective, and real world wisdom to this conversation in ways that challenge all of us to think better and live more deeply. Something in today's episode helps you don't get some wearing it.