#16: Do You Really Have To? — Steve Nagib on Obligation, Fear & Responsibility

On this week’s episode of the Capital T, Truth podcast, Larry Yatch and Steve Nagib answer listener questions inspired by our conversation with Jason Schechterle—but the discussion quickly expands into one of the most practical and transformative topics we’ve covered:

Obligation.

Why do so many of us lie awake at night replaying conversations, worrying about what we forgot, and carrying responsibilities that never seem to end?

According to Larry, the answer may not be responsibility at all—it may be fear.

Together, Larry and Steve unpack the hidden relationship between fear, connection, obligation, and choice, challenging one of the most common phrases we use every day:

“I have to.”

In this episode, you’ll discover:

• Why fear and love cannot exist at the same time
 • The difference between creating disconnection and experiencing disconnection
 • A practical tool for quieting an overactive mind at night
 • The surprising difference between obligation and responsibility
 • Why every obligation begins with a choice
 • How subconscious survival strategies quietly shape your daily life
 • Why recognizing your choices is the first step toward freedom

If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by responsibilities, struggled to switch your mind off, or believed your life was being controlled by obligations outside your control, this conversation offers a completely different perspective.

🎙️ Episode #16

Do You Really Have To?
Steve Nagib on Obligation, Fear & Responsibility

🎧 Available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Rumble, and wherever you get your podcasts.

👉 TRUTHPATHMASTERY.COM/PODCAST

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Fear and love can't exist at the same time. So again, I want to say.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Cannot.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Cannot. So fear and love cannot and exist at the same time. Uh it's a the way that I the quote that I say often is that where there is the experience of fear, there is no experience of love. Where there is the experience of love, there is no experience of fear. So this is a uh critical understanding, like a critical thing to understand. Because another thing that we can replace love with is connection. So where there is the experience of fear, there is no experience of connection. Where there is the experience of ultimate, complete, uh holistic connection, there is no experience of fear. And so when we live in fear, we sacrifice the experience of connection. If he's waking up, or if he's unable to sleep because he has actual things in his mind that are not taken care of, get those things out. We have limited short-term memory. What I mean is our RAM, our short-term memory, is very limited and it doesn't know the difference, it doesn't understand priority. So uh change a light bulb, uh pay taxes, um turn the you know, take the dog out. Those all equal the same amount of of they all equal the same amount of weight in our short-term memory. And so living in a world where you try to hold all of the things that you have to do in short-term memory will create a world where you don't stress at night or anytime there's there's stillness. So when people live in obligation, they live in a world where they don't have a choice. And that is the fundamental untruth. Right? Living in a world where obligation means I have no choice is a is a lie to ourselves. All obligations start with a choice. But it's not the choice you think. Most people think that the choice that obligations start with is to to do the obligation or not. And that's where they often get into well, I have no choice, I have to do the obligation. But the reality is is the where the choice starts is in caring about the consequence of not doing the obligation. Welcome back to another episode of Capital T Truth. Uh, we're here for another QA episode. I'm out out in the woods in the van again. Uh, I always enjoy doing these QA answers and the guests because I get to get in my sprinter van and go out into the woods. So uh in this episode, we'll be I think we're answering questions relative to Jason, correct? Yep. Yeah. So uh here with Steve again. Looking forward to another. I love these episodes because we get to answer your direct questions. So if you have any questions from this episode or any of the ones that you listen in the future, just go to truepathmastery.com, click the podcast tab, and there's gonna be instructions there how to get our get your questions answered uh and get them onto the show. Uh Steve's with me again. Uh Steve, welcome back. And I look forward to I always you never send me the questions ahead of time, so I'm always excited about what's to come on these.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Uh because if I send you the questions ahead of time, you would read them and have these polished answers. And I like to I like to see what comes out naturally. Um if you wanted to see them ahead of time, uh you can invite me camping with you in the woods. I would be much happier than sitting in my apartment right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure uh in the because we're just getting into uh spring in Utah, even though it's a horrible winter, so you know it's been spring for a while now. But uh I'm sure for some of these summer episodes that we record, you'll be out we'll be do it from the mountaintop and uh in the van.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Count me in. I'm 100% down for that. But uh for now, from afar, uh I'll read you some questions. Let's dive into this. Jason had a pretty uh interesting episode. He's got a pretty interesting story. Um, and some of the themes that I pulled out after listening to you and him chat were around honor and obligation um and around giving love without receiving love, which which, as you know, really for both of us, I'll say, hits me at home. Um, but really you and I um are really good at I would say giving through suffering and not super good at receiving love or not practicing it. We're we're trying to practice that. So I want to open it up with this question. It's a bit emotional, a bit vulnerable, but um, this is from Tom. Tom says uh when Jason talked about lying in bed with his thoughts at night, going through the checklist of everything he could have done better, who forgot to call and who left who he left out of his speech, I felt that in my bones. This is Tom, right? He listened to you guys and he's like, I felt that in my bones. Tom lays up at night every night. He says he does the same exact thing. My wife is right next to me, and I feel completely alone. I always thought I was just being responsible. Are you telling me that's actually a child trauma response? Because honestly, that scares me a little bit. What do you what do you got for Tom who lays up in bed at night next to his wife, thinking about all the things he could have done better in life?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So what I'm hearing what I'm hearing from this question is uh he is uh uh motivated or driven by fear. Right? Yeah, I'd agree. Okay, so uh I think then what we need to uh tackle there is uh the the spectrum of fear and love. Because I think this is a important uh it's a very foundational, very pivotal lesson. And I think the bigger question that what's the guy's name?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Tom.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

Tom. The bigger question Tom could be asking is what is it costing me to spend every night living in fear? That's a different question. So uh let me share kind of the spectrum of love versus fear first, and then we can talk about what it's costing, Tom. So uh fear and love can't exist at the same time. So again, I want to say cannot. So fear and love cannot, can't exist at the same time. Uh it's a the way that I the quote that I say often is that where there is the experience of fear, there is no experience of love. Where there is the experience of love, there's no experience of fear. So this is a uh critical understanding, like a critical thing to understand. Because another thing that we can replace love with is connection. So where there is the experience of fear, there is no experience of connection. Where there is the experience of ultimate, complete, uh, holistic connection, there is no experience of fear. And so when we live in fear, we sacrifice the experience of connection. Now, an important part to this is and again, you know me, I'm very, very careful with my words that one of the key parts to this is experience connection, right? So I'm saying we sacrifice, when we live in fear, we sacrifice the experience of connection. Does that mean that the connection is gone? And the answer is no. So for Tom laying in bed at night, what is he giving up by living in the fear of what he has not done? He's giving up the feeling of connection as he states with his wife that is sitting next to him. Now, is the love that his wife has for him and that he has for his life gone in that evening fear session? No, it's still there, but he just doesn't get to experience it. And so I think the biggest answer to this question is that when we live in fear, we are going to sacrifice the experience of the connection that is driving the fear in the first place. That's the craziest part, right? Like, who didn't I call? What didn't I do? Why is there fear in the first place? Because we don't want to give up or or lose connection, right? If I call didn't call the right person, if I did the wrong thing, I'm losing connection. But what are we doing? We live in fear. We are sacrificing the experience of that connection right then and there. So you're actually creating, Tom is actually creating the very thing he doesn't want that is keeping him up at night.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

And when you say he's creating disconnection, are you literally meaning he's he is not creating disconnection?

SPEAKER_00 9:34

He's not creating disconnection, he is creating the experience of disconnection. That's a big difference. Right? Him laying up at night while his wife sleeps in fear and terror and worry and anxiety is creating the experience of disconnection in him. He isn't creating disconnection.

unknown 9:54

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So what does he do?

SPEAKER_00 9:57

So the and the reason I bring that up is there's a that's a big difference, right? There's a big deal. Like I am sure there's been times in Tom's marriage where he has actively created the experience of disconnection, right? Disconnection with his wife, fights, uh his own uh insecurities, any number of things, right? And so we can create disconnection, which we always do through implementing our strategies of survival, our traumas. But what he's doing is creating the experience of disconnection for himself, which is the very thing that is creating or driving the fear. So it's a self-inf reinforcing loop.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

What would you say? I'm gonna ask a secondary question on Tom's behalf. What would you say he do when he's like, can you give him a tool to use in the middle of the night? Because when I hear you say the experience of disconnection, that makes sense to me. And I'm like, okay, I want to connect with the people I'm thinking about, but I can't call them at 2 a.m. What is what does Tom do at 2 a.m. to to reverse what he's what he's created?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

I think there's two two steps to it. Um if he's waking up or if he's unable to sleep because he has actual things in his mind that are not taken care of, get those things out. We have limited short-term memory. What I mean is our RAM, our short-term memory is very limited and it doesn't know the difference, it doesn't understand priority. So uh change the light bulb, uh pay taxes, um turn the you know, take the dog out. Those all equal the same amount of of they all equal the same amount of weight in our short-term memory. And so living in a world where you try to hold all of the things that you have to do in short-term memory will create a world where you live in stress at night or anytime there's there's stillness. And so the first thing would be if it's real, meaning if the things that are keeping him up are real things he has to worry about, uh responsibilities you have, obligations you have, you'd need a better system, right? You need a better system for capturing those so you don't you can go to bed with a mind that's empty of obligations because they're all in the right spot. They're gonna be there in the morning. Um, the best tool that I can give you for that is David Allen's getting things done. So David Allen's book, Getting Things Done, I think is the best book I've ever read that understands how the short-term memory system works and providing very clear systems to be able to start getting rid of those things. So that'd be step one. Uh step two, so if now I'm living in living in fear and anxiety at night, yet I have a system that'll capture my actual tasks and obligations. Now we need to shift our attention and focus not from what we haven't done or what we need to do and shift it to the love that we can we have, right? And that's where you can you can go into gratitude. You can go into the connection that you feel with your wife, your kids, with with God, with the universe. And so one step one, make sure you got a system to keep your short-term memory empty. Uh, that could be as simple as having a pad of paper next to your next to your pant but your bed. And if you're in that racing state, well, write everything down that you that's in your mind, get it all written down, then sit there and focus on the connection, the love that you have for for yourself, for God, for all that's uh all the people that we care about in our lives.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I like it. I like I might I might do that tonight. I might pick up that book. What was that book called again?

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Getting Things Done by David Allen. And if you're gonna like if you are someone who is chronically feels chronically overwhelmed with all sorts of tasks, uh, it's an amazing book. Just follow the book. Like it's a it's a work along with it. It's an instruction manual. And every time I'll often get into that state again because I'll let go of my systems and then I'll get rampant myself up. And all I do is get the book, follow the instructions, go to pieces of paper, don't go with technology at the beginning. So that that is a very useful tool.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Nice. Nice. Um speaking of tools, I'm gonna skip around a little bit because I think this is a good segue into this next question. Um, this question is from Randy from California. Uh Jason is a professional speaker who gets standing ovation and has hundreds of people showing him love on a regular basis. Also, I like that Randy told us where he was from, by the way. Um, his problem though, Jason's problem, is that he can't receive it. My problem is the opposite. I feel like nobody sees what I do all day. It sounds like Randy's a nurse. He says, I'm a nurse and I give everything I have every shift, and most days I don't even get a thank you. So, what about the people who are giving from obligation and honor but aren't getting anything back to receive it in the first place? What do we do? I'm gonna read that again because that's a little bit awkwardly worded. So, what about the people who are giving from obligation and honor but aren't getting anything back to receive it in the first place? What do we do?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

So it's kind of where do I want to jump in on this one?

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, that's not I even reread it because I was like, no, this one's deep.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah, it's like I think I'm I'm gonna go with just the obligation conversation because I think this will be the most the most useful place. Uh we've talked about one of the the root uh core problems to or drivers for all our traumas is conditionality, conditional love trading, right? Where I have to do something to receive your love and I expect you to do something to warrant my love. So conditionality becomes a foundational driver of uh our traumas. It's one of the three, the three core drivers of it. Um conditionality, especially earning love, uh falls into uh one of the core pieces in that is obligation. And uh this is because where I got stuck on which direction goes obligation or external validation, I think we'll go with obligation first. Maybe we talk about external validation after. By the very nature of the word obligation, uh when I ask people what does that mean, what does obligation mean? I always will get the same answer or some version of the same answer, something you have to do. And the have to do, when I dig a little bit further into have to do, is uh you have to to or else, like it's outside of you. Meaning it isn't my choice. So when people live in obligation, they live in a world where they don't have choice, and that is the fundamental untruth, right? Living in a world where obligation means I have no choice is is a lie to ourselves. All obligations start with a choice, but it's not the choice you think. Most people think that the choice that obligations start with is to do the obligation or not. And that's where they often get into well, I have no choice, I have to do the obligation. But the reality is the where the choice starts is in caring about the consequence of not doing the obligation. So if every obligation comes with a consequence, meaning if there is no uh result, measurable result of holding or not holding the obligation, there is no obligation. Right? So in order for an obligation to exist, there has to be a consequence. There has to be some effect of holding or not holding. And generally, obligations come with a positive consequence or a negative consequence, meaning if you take care of the obligation, something good shows up in your life. And if you take, if you don't take care of the obligation, something bad shows up in your life. And so the origin of every obligation is the choice to care about the positive or the negative consequence. If I don't care about the positive thing that will come into my life if I do this thing, and I don't care about the negative thing that would come into my life if I don't do this thing, then there's no longer an obligation. And so what I hear in his language is he lives in the lie that obligation comes without choice. And the reality is, is that all obligations start with choice, and it is our choice to care about the consequence. If we start letting go of the consequences, then all of a sudden we have no longer have an obligation. And so that's where I would start with him of saying, explore these things that you consider to be obligations that you're suffering and sacrificing to do, because I would be willing to bet that those are coming from outside of you and you have no onus, no power in it. But that's a lie. And the first thing I would ask him to do after that would be to say, well, find look and explore the choice and make the choices, right? Actively own the choice to care about the positive or to not care about the negative. And now all of a sudden the obligations don't turn away from being external and they become internal. And in the internal taking care of obligations, we produce fulfillment.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

What about so I I'm with you, Larry, but what about a something as fundamental as like eating? Right? Like, do I have it feels like I have no choice. Like, don't I have the obligation to eat every day of my life?

SPEAKER_00 20:33

What if you don't eat ever again?

SPEAKER_01 20:38

I would have a six pack for about a day, and then I'd probably die.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, so what is the consequence of not eating? No, the first consequence is a six pack. That would be the positive result of not eating, right? And so many people will use that. I need a six-pack or else no one will love me as a drive to not eat enough or to to eat less, right? It doesn't have to be unhealthy. If you continue to not eat, what's the negative consequence? Death. So what if you don't care about dying and don't care about a six pack? Do you have to eat?

SPEAKER_01 21:24

If I don't care about dying, meaning I'm okay with dying?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, you say you want to die. Well then all of a sudden I I now have the obligation to not eat.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Because I made the choice.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Because you made the choice. So you don't in caring about your life, you now have the obligation to eat. If you don't care about continuing your life, then you don't have the obligation to eat.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Interesting. See, when you say it that way. I think of responsibility. Like, don't I have the responsibility to eat? And now I'm thinking in my head, like, what? Sorry, I'm going. These are my these are Steam original questions now. What's the difference between responsibility and obligation then?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

The difference between responsibility and obligation. Obligation is I have to do it or else. Responsibility is a choice to hold a certain standard. So we turn obligation into responsibility when we accept our choice to care about the consequence.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Got it. So once I've made the choice, in other words, what I'm hearing you say is once I've made the choice to care about a consequence, now I have a bunch of obligations. If I take action on those obligations, meaning I'm gonna I'm gonna try to complete them, right? If you will quote unquote complete them, that's me accepting the responsibility that those obligations come with.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

It's you holding the responsibility. Because you can accept the responsibility and not hold it, which will then result in you suffering the consequence.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Got it.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

It's really like a false think of this as a chain. A consequence has to exist first. I have to care about that consequence. Now a a choice, usually subconscious, comes in to say that consequence is important to me. As soon as you do that, you have an obligation. Boom, it exists. Now if you hold that obligation or don't, is if you're responsible or irresponsible. If you now hold the obligation, you're acting with responsibility. If you don't hold that obligation, you act irresponsible and you suffer the consequence. So choice, consequence, obligation, and responsibility are completely tied. They're always tied together.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Got it. Got it. The way that you describe that, I appreciate that because the way you described it there at the end, I think we think of the common person, I think uh we think of responsibility as as the thing, right? As the thing on the checklist. But what I'm hearing you say is it's really the obligation, and how we want to approach that obligation is either an act of being responsible or an act of being irresponsible.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Which is description, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Yeah, which is a different way of looking at it, I think, than than a lot of us have been taught to look at the word responsibility, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So it's like the core distinction around if you're really looking at two different things, like you just explained that. The other thing you gotta look about, look at clearly is how do you perceive obligations in your world? Are obligations things that happen to you because of the world, or are obligations things you choose? And as soon as you shift to the truth, the capital T truth, that every obligation is my choice, all of a sudden I'm no longer a victim in this world at all. I'm not a victim to the consequences, I'm not lucky based on the the benefits of holding it. I I now have onus on it. And so that to me, those two things of of understanding that uh taking action on your on your obligations creates responsible and opportunity or irresponsible and and threat is one thing. The other side of that coin is every obligation is my choice. And now all of a sudden, every time I hear myself say I have to, and that's the linguistic thing that I listen for as what in my own narratives as well as when I'm working with any person, is whenever I hear someone say I have to, I poke on that. Right. And for me, every time I hear myself say I have to, I immediately stop and I I look at where am I in this false sense of obligation and I identify where I'm making the choice. And as soon as I do that, things get easier. And so have to is something that should trigger you and when it's in your own head or you hear it, someone else say it.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, I find that super interesting, and you and I have talked about this before because I think what what I'll say, quote unquote, like the self-help world has has said, and I think it's an incomplete narrative, is that oh just change the word have to to I get to, right? I don't have to do this thing, I get to do this thing. What you're suggesting feels like such deeper work because you're not just saying, okay, change have to get, but it's stop and identify, okay, where does that have even come from? Meaning, where have you now that now that we feel landed?

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Or where do I choose it? Right? It's it's both. Because there's a lot of times where we live in false obligation. I don't actually have to do it. And then there's times where we do live in obligation, but it's our choice.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Yeah. Yeah, so it's completely flipping the narrative around back on us. It's not saying simply change the word to get to, it's explore it a little bit and and now you bet, quote unquote, get to rewrite your story. You get to write the story that you want to write.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

And you get to let go of things that might not because if all I do is say every time I say have to, say get to, I still may do a bunch of stuff I shouldn't be doing.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Right. Just grinding your teeth through it.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Just grinding through it. So instead, when I say, Oh, have to, nope, is this real? Do I really have to? No, I don't. Well, then I let it go. Oh, yes, I care about the consequence. Well, now I'm gonna hold on to it and it's mine. Right? So to me, that's significantly more useful than just saying get to.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah. That's uh I think that's gonna be a hidden gem of this episode that didn't come from a listener question, but uh, I had to I had to poke on you on that because I know we've had tons of conversations around responsibility and obligation. It's something that I've even worked on in my own life because I thought for so many years I was like, change my attitude to gratitude, and everything's gonna be alright, right? Like I get to do all of these things, and it felt it felt, I'll say it felt cliche, but honestly, Larry, between you, me, and I guess everyone else listening, like it felt felt like a cop out, it felt dumb. Like, sure, I get to like okay, I get to walk two miles uphill both ways in the snow to go to school. Like, at some point, right, and that's just like my parents in me telling me that that's how they grew up. At some point, it it started to lose its meaning. And I think the the tool of exploration that you just provided is is such a stronger, stronger way of actually getting to the root cause and and enjoying your life experience and curating the life that you want to curate, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

And that's I think that last line's a good good line to end on in that uh we are exactly where we want to be every moment of our life. It's just mostly it's driven by our subconscious, right? So our subconscious will make sure that you are exactly where it wants you to be. And the more that your subconscious and your conscious disagree, the more you live in suffering. And that suffering is unnecessary. All we're doing here on this podcast is bringing more alignment between your subconscious and your conscious, so that even in this situation, right, your subconscious tells you you have to do this or else, when in reality you are choosing to do it or you can let it go. And so that is bringing the subconscious drive for obligation into the conscious mind to turn it into a chosen responsibility. And in doing that, when we bring alignment between the conscious and subconscious, all of a sudden our life's easier, we get to experience what we want. So I think that's a uh awesome thing to end on because it really does create the foundation of what we're doing with this capital tree capital T truth podcast. And so with that, I'd say good, like good questions. I'm glad you uh you jumped in with was it David? So uh for some uh Steve questions as well. Uh with that being said, as usual, thank you for joining us. Uh continue to live in Capital T truth, continue to shine the light of the conscious mind into the the dark uh depths of the subconscious. And and another way you can do that is go to the website truepathmastery.com, and in that you'll see what we do for all of you out there, as well as there's a podcast tab. And on that podcast tab, there's instructions there to be able to send questions. You can link up with us and all our different channels, as well as, as I've said before, we love having guests on the show to be able to explore your individual subconscious strategies. So you'll be able to go through podcast at truepathmastery.com and uh submit an application to come be on the show with us. Thank you for listening and continue to live in Capital T Truth. Thank you for joining another episode of Capital T Truth. Go to TruePathmastery.com and you'll see a podcast link there. Within that, you can subscribe to all our channels, get notified when our new episodes are coming out, as well as be able to reach us to send us questions. You can send that to podcast at TruePathmastery.com. And if you send us that email or submit it through the website, we'll be able to get your question answered live.