Episode 1: The Hinterkaifeck Murders — Someone Was Already There

It started with footprints in the snow.

They led to the house—but never came back out.

Then came the sounds from the attic. The missing keys. The feeling that someone was watching.

By the time anyone understood what was happening…

it was already too late.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Yeah, that is our weird fucking intro. Um I like that. First time. I I made it on uh the MIDI keyboard, and uh when you first started, you were like, that's shit, you fucked up at the end.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I didn't know that that's your intention.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Yeah, that was my intention, but uh we'll see if people actually like it or get annoyed by the fact that it's all fucked up at the end. Um okay, so this is gonna be our first attempt at doing a podcast together.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Um just to see whether or not people even like our dynamic or just find us annoying as shit. Um so we'll we'll uh we'll do what everyone does and just do uh murder podcast, I guess. True crime. Everyone loves that shit, right? So um yeah, today's story that I have to tell is going to be something that's hard to pronounce. The Hinter Käfek murders.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Damn, that's really a hard word for me. The Hinterkafek?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

You say it better than I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

The Hinter Kefek?

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Hinter Käfek, yeah, it's a it's a German word, apparently.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

German?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

It's a German word, yeah. And it um it means something like behind or you know, just around the oh shit, haven't or something like that. I can't remember. I did I did do a little bit of research and then I completely forgot it. So um anyway, the the story is kind of a bit of a spooky one, it's a bit of a weird one. Um, and the subtitle is Someone Was Already Living There.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Oh no. That's spooky.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah. So I want to start tonight's episode with a detail that kind of sounds small, okay, but it isn't. Okay, so in late March of 1922, a farmer in Bavaria noticed something strange after a snowfall. So he walked outside and saw a single line of footprints coming from the edge of the forest. Okay. Okay. Now that might not be abnormal for most people, but um but it when once you understand where this took place, it it's a little bit sketchy. They went straight to his house and then they stopped. No footprints led away.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

So that's the part that's a little bit creepy, right? You know, you you have footprints that come up and then there's no going back. And this is especially um, you know, if you haven't gone out yourself recently, and you see that, and you're like, oh shit, that's kinda creepy.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

But maybe those people stayed there inside.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah, but that isn't that even worse though? If it's in your house, wouldn't you be a little creeped out if there was someone at our front door or at our in our in our lawn or you know, in our backyard, we see footprints coming up to our house.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

I would be very skeptical and I am curious.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

Well, okay, so um no footprints led away. What it just there was just one path from the woods to the door. So, um the the homeowner lived with his wife, with his adult daughter, and with his two grandchildren. And as of that very day, a new maid. Okay. Now, he never called the police, and within days of that event, every single person in the house would be dead.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Whoa!

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Mm-hmm. Yeah, kinda kinda creepy. Um, so it's the Hinter Kfek Murders, is again the the title of the murders. One of the most disturbing unsolved crimes in European history, and not because of how violent it was, but because of what it suggests about presence. So there wasn't a break-in, there was no robbery gone wrong, um, but there was a possibility that someone was already there.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

That's where you go, uh oh my god, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Okay, so um, to understand this case, you have to understand where it happened. Now, Hinterfeck was not a town. It wasn't even really a place that you could point to on a map. It was the name of a single farmstead located about 70 kilometers north of Munich, again in Germany, surrounded by dense forests and open fields. Now, um, I had to look up what a farmstead actually is. Do you know what a farmstead is?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

No. So how big? How big?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

No, it no, a farmstead is is apparently just the term for um what encompasses where the house and the barn and and all of that. So that area is the farmstead, right? Okay, where the where the buildings are and where the people live. Yeah, so that's the farmstead part, I guess, of the of the farm, right? Um okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

And does that mean that the persons who live there had some neighbors at all, or is it only does that?

SPEAKER_00 5:37

No, so this was an isolated place. Like very, very isolated. They had no neighbors, um, it was out in the middle of nowhere, and so that's kind of the scary thing, is that you can't really scream out for help or anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Um, okay, so you're you're surrounded by forest and open fields, and again, it was 1922 in deep rural Bavaria. No electricity, no phones, no street lights. Um, so pretty much the perfect setting for a horror film. Um and at night you would uh it would have been completely dark, right? So it's not like we have lights on the street walks and and um like we have. Yeah, it's it's pitch black. Um it's the kind of darkness that sound carries, and isolation actually feels physical. So the nearest neighbors were far enough away that screams wouldn't be heard, and this really does matter for um some of the details later in the story. Because whatever happened at Hinter Kfek happened without any witnesses. Not surprising. They're in the middle of nowhere, right? So let's talk a little bit about the Gruber family. Now, the farm belonged to Andreas Gruber, and he was a 63-year-old man. And accounts from neighbors described him as not exactly a nice person. He was kind of a dick. Um, he was an authoritarian, quick-tempered, and feared rather than respected. So people really, yeah, people avoided him when possible, you know, that person, that grumpy old man that you just you don't want to see. Um his wife, um, and I'm gonna butcher this name, Kazelia Gruber, was 72.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

So that's it that's interesting in itself, right? He she's she's nine years older. I mean, that uh you know, good for them, that's great, that's amazing. But especially back then, it would have been a little bit more abnormal to have um the woman be a little bit older than the man, right? I think so. I would imagine. Okay. Wouldn't you? You don't think so?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Oh well, I've seen so. Oh, but I mean, like at that time.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Hmm. Yeah, well, I mean, like I said, whatever works for them, that's great. Um, and I have no problem with that, obviously. Um okay, so she was described as withdrawn and frail. So she was not described nearly the same way as Andreas. Andreas, like I said, he was this, you know, authoritarian, grumpy old man, and she was just this frail person that was shy, and she rarely left the farm, right? So um, both of them lived together with their daughter, Victoria Gabriel, in her mid-30s.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Okay, now Victoria's husband, Carl Gabriel, had supposedly died in World War I. Now, here's something that's actually kind of interesting is that his body was never recovered. And some people later question whether he was truly even dead at all.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

So, um, you know, we'll we'll we'll keep that in mind. Now, Victoria had two children.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

Um, her daughter, Kazilia, was seven years old. Now, you might be saying, Well, I thought you said Kazilia was a grandma. Well, yeah, she she is. She's the she was the the the wife, sorry, the the wife, but she's also a grandma, and her granddaughter shares the same name, Kazilia, seven years old. Old enough to understand fear, at least, right? And old enough to understand pain, of course, right? Yeah. And then she had her son Joseph, who was two.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

And Joseph is where things get a little bit uncomfortable because years earlier, um, Andreas Gruber and Victoria Gabriel had been charged and convicted of incest.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Wait, hold on. Years later?

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Years earlier.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Years earlier? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Years earlier, yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

So they both uh so they're a brother and sister?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

Yeah. Yeah. And they actually served prison sentences because of this.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Um, because it is illegal, right? I mean, I don't know. What is it like in in uh in Indonesia?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Come on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Oh yeah, we should have introduced ourselves. We didn't introduce ourselves. We didn't even do that. I'm John, and this is Febriana.

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Fabriana.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Yeah, and she is Indonesian and I am Canadian, and we're both living in the States. Uh we met here. So in Iowa, of all places. So weird. Um The Flyowns. Wheelie Bez. Um, yeah, exactly. Okay, so where were we? So they were charged with so it sounds like they were brother and sister. They served their time.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

But then they continue their marriage? Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

So so yeah, it sounds like they continued their their relationship. Now Joseph's paternity, Joseph is the kid, remember the two-year-old kid. His paternity was officially um attributed to Victoria's husband, but given the timing, many people suspected that Andreas himself might have been the father.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Whoa!

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yeah, yeah, so it was not gross. Yeah, it's very gross. Um, you know, so we we don't really know the details of of this, and especially we didn't, you know, there weren't all those DNA tests that you have now that you can check pretty easily for those sorts of things, but but the timing was pretty suspect.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

But I assume that uh Joseph's mom knew about this, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Well, I mean about the relationship of their parents.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Well, Joseph's mom, I mean, she would have known, right? Yeah, yeah. If they were having relations, right, of course.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah. So, um okay, so that so that that's a little bit of a backstory there. Now, inside this isolated farmhouse, right, we were in the middle of nowhere, we have this violent man, right? We have a history of sexual abuse, we have family shame known throughout the community, and rumors um that really never quite went away, right? So this wasn't exactly a peaceful home.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

But I mean, you you know, the the what went on um after that was was not really expected nonetheless, right? Um, because all of them ended up dead. So whoa!

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, the whole family.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, do you not remember that from the beginning?

unknown 12:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Well, I didn't expect like all of them were dead.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

All of them, yeah, all of them, yeah. No, they definitely all ended up dead. Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit about the maid and the timing, okay? Because remember, it was the family plus the maid. Now, this woman's name, the maid's name was Maria Baumgartner. Now, she was 44 years old. Um, she had arrived at Hinter Cafe on March 31st, 1922, the very day of the murders. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

You know, and and that's a little bit strange.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah, it's a little bit a little suspicious.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

She is not lucky enough.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Right, exactly. You'd think, oh man, this is obviously the maid. Um, but the previous maid had quit suddenly, um, apparently because she believed the house was haunted. Okay, so she she believed in Okay Um in ghosts and and hauntings, and and you kind of believe in that too, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:23

I I you don't know. I don't know, but sometimes I'm so scared of ghosts.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, well, I mean that's a big that's a big thing in Indonesian culture, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah, it is. Very superstitious people.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Very superstitious, yeah. Okay. Well, um, okay, so someone had already left the house because they felt unsafe, right? Um, whether it was because it was haunted or whatnot. It was it was an atmosphere that exactly it wasn't exactly something that they wanted to be in. Now Maria arrived with her belongings. She unpacked, she settled in, and that night she was murdered in her bed.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Okay, so Maria obviously was not the murderer, right? Everyone that was in that house that we have mentioned so far ended up.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

They were killed, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Right, so we don't know, you know, who who the murderer was, right? Again, and I started this off with this is one of the biggest unsolved mysteries.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Now, she had um no history with the family, no known enemies.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Um, and what do you mean by she here is the Marie Maria, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yes. Maria had no history with the family, right? She was brand new to the place. Um and no known enemies whatsoever. So she was collateral. Or she saw something that she wasn't meant to see, right? Maybe she showed up just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Really unfortunate.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

For her.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah. So the warning signs. Okay, let's let's talk about, you know, some of the warning signs um uh in in detail here. So let's go back to those footprints that we talked about at the beginning of of the story. Now, Andreas Gruber told neighbors that he had seen footprints in the snow leading from the forest to the house. Not away, just towards. He also reported hearing footsteps in the attic, right? Hearing movement above him at night, discovering a newspaper that no one in the family had purchased, tools disappearing and reappearing, and finally his house keys vanished.

unknown 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

So these are all things that he reported um to his neighbors at some point in time.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Okay, but how long did that happen before he reported that case?

SPEAKER_00 15:48

That's a good question. I am I am well, I mean, he he didn't report this case because.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yeah, I mean he he mentioned that the there were several footprints and footprints and the house keys were gone. So maybe that did not happen on the one.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Well, I mean, this this all happened around the same time, right? So he didn't it's it's unclear.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

So it's not a little bit weeped at actions.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

No, but it's uncle yeah, but it there were there were things that were recurring throughout the time period that were suspicious and he was a little bit kind of wary of, right? It's it's suggesting that there was maybe someone living there, right? There's maybe someone around, or at least coming around when they weren't home, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:31

So these aren't subtle signs, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:35

So they're the kind of things that today you'd probably call the police immediately.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, I would put the cameras around the house, but probably.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

But this is 1922. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

There were no such things.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Um but Andreas um didn't call the police. So why, right?

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Now there's uh few possibilities. He didn't want police near the family because of their past.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah, that's possible.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

It's a pretty big um, you know, pretty big no-no uh in any culture really. Um and yeah, maybe he just didn't want them around. Um, didn't trust them. I don't know. He believed he could handle it himself, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

Yeah, or maybe he actually was the one who got involved in all of those.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, he I mean he But then he You mean if he was involved in the murders himself.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, and then he killed himself.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

That's very possible, yeah. That is possible. Um, but I wonder how it would have happened with the murder weapon when we get to that. So we'll we'll talk about that murder weapon in a bit. So, um, you know, and it is possible that he did want to handle it himself because he was an authoritarian. He wasn't exactly a nice guy. He seemed to be very dominant, very, you know, uh wanting to I could see him wanting to handle things himself, and because he could do it better than everyone else, right? Yeah. Um or and maybe this is one of the most disturbing options, is that he already knew who it was.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

But why did he let that and he did not let anybody know if he knew it?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I don't know. But I I I mean I wonder if, you know, if he did know who it was and he's telling his neighbors all these details.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Um I mean what create stories and then you know, like let the neighbors think about any possibilities themselves and kind of bury it the real fact of what happened.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Well, I mean I of Well, he he nothing had happened yet, right? These are just details that happened before the murders, right? So it's it's unclear why he would lie about that.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

I I mean that's uh that should be something that he was trying to cover.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Well, yeah, if if he knew who it was, right? But it it doesn't really make sense to me to top.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

But that's that's one of the theories that was.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Yeah, it's possible. Maybe, maybe because of the ghost or you know, the ghost that the that the previous maid had mentioned. Maybe he was trying to stir up chaos, who knows? But anyway, he you know, there's there's tons of different possibilities, and we don't really know the real reason. So let's get to the actual night of the murders. Now, investigators believed that the murders happened late on March 31st or very early in April. So very early April 1st. And here's the key detail. Um the victims, apparently, were killed one by one. Okay, so it wasn't like a group killing, it wasn't like a massacre, all that was. It was one person, one at one, which yeah, no attacks together, no surprise in their sleep. They were lured one at a time into the barn.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah, so so what is that I mean, what does that suggest to you? Because that to me, what what what do you what is your interpretation there?

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Well, first, to me, that's really weird. Um, if I I mean if at night I'm sleeping, even like in the uh other bedroom, I would still hear if someone moved and I would follow secretly.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

So I don't understand how that killer lured them one by one without the uh versus second.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Well to me what it what it suggests is that is that they knew the person, right? Because how could you be lured to the barn by some stranger unless they had you at like gunpoint or at knife point or something like that? But it but if he's doing it one by one without getting caught and it's a family full of it's a it's a it's a house full of people, so like how is he gonna do that without um someone else seeing him at some point? That would be pretty you know you'd have to be like a ninja.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

I I would like to jump at the conclusion that Andres probably was the one who did that.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah, but you can't though, because he died, I mean he could have, you're right. He could have killed himself, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

He would kill them so.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

That's true, that's true. Um, okay, so um, so so it's pretty clear that they were killed one by one, they were lured into the barn, and the murder weapon was a matok. Okay, so M A T T O C K. Now I had never heard of that before because we're not farmers, so we have no idea, and maybe this is something that's um still used all the time, but it's a heavy blunt um agricultural tool um that is often on farms and properties um around farms. So if you've ever seen I I mean I I think of blunt you it's it's one of those like really long it's got like a big um a long handle and then it has it's almost like a it looks kind of almost like an axe.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Um but it's oh man it's uh you think of oh oh I know how to describe it. It's like when you go into the mines if you if you think of like a stereotypical picture of a miner you know when they're breaking up the rocks with uh that that that uh wooden thing handle with like the metal thingy that I think that's what a mattock is. Well yeah do you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_01 22:55

I'm gonna picture that in my head as like X, but I don't know why it's blunt. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah I don't know yeah that I mean that's it's not I mean it it it's just that it's not like a knife. Yeah yeah but it it could definitely kill you very easily. Okay so Andreas Gruber um was most likely actually first in this story. So that that there goes your theory about him doing it and then killing himself right wrong okay so then um the the theory is that it was him first then his wife then Victoria who is their daughter remember and then the sorry go ahead and then granddaughter then the granddaughter yep the seven year old Kazilia and this is the detail that um seasoned investigators kind of pause. Now she apparently Kazillia did not die immediately you mean the daughter or the granddaughter the granddaughter the seven year old granddaughter yep she um apparently lived for hours alone in the barn surrounded by the bodies of her family. Wow that's so scary because the evidence shows yeah it's terrifying and I mean can you imagine being a seven year old seeing that and being a lot yeah well I mean it's probably as dark as it is to say this it might be my you know I don't know if I'd want to live on if I were in her shoes, you know, and that just happened you'd be scarred for life.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Yeah exactly like the memories are just oh my god yeah that'd be crazy all those scary things.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Um evidence showed she tore clumps of hair from her own head before finally dying now um you know you yeah you gotta think of that but I mean why why would you do that? I mean I can imagine you'd be going a little bit it's a seven year old girl. Well you'd be so incredibly stressed out right I mean how would you how would you deal with that you yeah I would be so confused well yeah absolutely and you'd probably be so stressed out and and confused and just yeah you'd go a little bit crazy you know yeah yeah um okay so after that did she ask for help though um no because remember this is in the middle of nowhere yeah but she if I were her I would probably just cry and you know just shout help help help yeah yeah that's true um but yeah that's I mean that yeah I mean I don't know if she did that she probably was doing that but she didn't um she couldn't contact anyone so after you know she's pulling out her hair and um she had been alive for a while um the killer entered the house right and Maria Baumgartner or now remember she is the maid was killed in her room and even Joseph the two year old was killed in his crib oh no but the thing is is that there was no rush there was no panic just meth method methodical movement right I was having a hard time saying that word um so so it was it was clear that this person was not stressed out not moving quickly sounded like they were pretty surgical um with their movements okay so that's that's at least what what the evidence um suggests in the house right there's no way of telling what actually happened but these are what you know and and people can be pretty good at um determining things like that based on like blood spatter analysis and yeah but we don't know like like then I'll add to well we don't no and and and a lot of this could just be hype and stories and um and you know how telephone works right when you tell someone one thing and it ends up completely different later.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Yeah so we will develop the story.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Exactly yep so okay so after the murders took place um this is where Hinter Kfek becomes something else entirely. Now because whoever did this right did this gruesome killing of all of these people in the house apparently this person did not leave right so there's strong evidence that they did not leave the house and again strong is is you know I'm I'm putting that in quotes here um for those who can't see um because we don't really know but that this is this is the the the working theory right that they didn't leave for several days. Now some of the evidence here was that food was cooked and eaten the fireplace was used okay livestock was fed so they even fed the farm animals interesting and the house was clearly lived in right oh interesting so how how did the neighbors uh figure out about the murder so that's the killers finally left the house mm-hmm mm-hmm well um that's that's a good question and we'll we'll get to that yeah um okay so just you know just imagine sleeping in that house imagine hearing the wind outside knowing what was in the barn you know all those dead bodies in the barn um and this is just someone chilling you know just someone living um in this house with blood everywhere with dead bodies and knowing that he's not the normal people uh even if they kill other people they would leave immediately apparently this killers probably would not like that at all well yeah I mean i i anyone that murders a whole bunch of people is probably not in a very good mental state um but still like personally if they murder people for certain motives you know they would immediately just leave and they don't want the police to I was trying to tell you to get your hand away from your mouth you gotta you gotta talk into the microphone. I'm sorry yeah kinda yeah because if you're doing this you're gonna be blocking yeah okay um okay but yeah no that that's that's a good point um okay so let's get back to it so they didn't leave right the there was food you know eating and all that now um this person obviously if they're doing all that they're feeling pretty comfortable which is which is very very sick right so let's get back to your question about you know how did they get found right so about four days passed okay so the mail um clearly was piling up and a mechanic arrived and found the farm eerily silent right because remember this is a pretty big like I mean there's a there's a lot of people there um and it is a farm you're gonna usually see people working outside and whatnot but this mechanic arrives um and again it's it's it's weirdly silent so the neighbors thought something of it and they forced their way into the barn right because they're like what is going on here and I'm sure they called out and looked around and no one's answering right so they ended up forcing their way into the barn. Now inside of course they found the bodies stacked partially covered with hay. Yeah oh my god maybe the murderer would burn them yeah you'd think but they didn't they just left the bodies there.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Maybe because the killer knew that the neighbors would come and uh he was almost doing it but you know he got a sand said oh okay now people knew about it and I would live.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah maybe yeah it's I I mean I don't I don't really know um it's yeah maybe he maybe he he thought or maybe he heard the the neighbors come right and that's you know but I I don't understand why he would I mean do you even understand why he would be in the place to begin with and not leave at all? I mean he's just leaving a whole bunch of bodies just to be found. No but I you know but we still have one character that you know was part of the family and uh he was reported dead but the body was never found exactly exactly yeah I mean who knows right who knows what happens there because um he and and remember Joseph you know was possibly not actually his kid exactly right so that's yeah that's that's a possibility okay so the police arrived um but by then the scene was hopelessly contaminated right I mean there there were neighbors and and everyone was walking around so everything is going to be you know kind of hard to figure out who committed what if if the whole scene is is compromised so over the years um there were more than about a hundred suspects named Wow yeah so it's a lot oh my god but uh again that you the the scene was completely contaminated there was so much going on that it's really tough to tell what actually happened none stuck though none of those suspects actually stuck um there was no confession by any of them no forensic you know smoking gun and again we they didn't really have great forensic tools back then so the case uh went cold at at that time right so but what happened to those people a hundred suspects how did did they ever stay in jail at all or was that just a police um talk to them and interview them about this and that and suspect I'm not sure but I suspect they interviewed quite a few people given the but they uh gruesome nature of it right they probably had suspects that they were really hoping was the killer so that they could tell but they could not prove they couldn't prove anything nothing stuck nothing really made any sense but I kind of like your theory about it being the um the husband of the of the daughter right because because um he would have a great motive to do that yeah he would his motive definitely if he found out that Joseph the two year old boy was actually Andreas's um child and not his you know um and uh his wife is also Andreas' daughter yep yeah I know it's it's it's just wild pretty s pretty sickening but but that is that is a possibility right because they never found his body so that's you know that's one of the theories right um so people return to Hinter Kfact because it really does challenge some of our assumptions what right we want to believe danger comes from the outside um but in this case it kind of suggests that they might have already been inside the place right so it probably was you know someone that they knew deeply right so I and and again I like your theory the most I think that that it's probably it makes the most sense doesn't it that the the husband that was off to war comes back and he finds out that the kid's not his and um it would be a lot easier for him to lure people out to the barn right because there was no struggle there was no you know nothing seemed out of place he was very very methodical um but in any case so this case you know does suggest that you know danger doesn't always come from outside right it could be on the inside and someone that you know really well right so that isolation that you if you if you live out in isolation and you're hoping only the closest people are near you doesn't necessarily protect you unfortunately right the isolation doesn't always protect you it hides things once in a while so um in 1923 right just a year after the the murders happened the farm was demolished the land was cleared only a small marker remains there right now and the big question remains who was already there right and how long had they been watching but you know I don't really think it's that huge of a question right who was already there I mean it yeah logically is there really any other conclusion unless that was the the idea is that someone set this up even you know perfectly to to fit to set this uh husband up but it doesn't make sense why they wouldn't find the body but my second theory will be which I don't believe in my own is one of the mates that left the house probably but I don't remember that's possible too right I mean the it considering how much abuse uh was in the house she could have there is a motive to do that. That's true. She could have actually um you know made up an excuse about the house being haunted so that she could leave without you know without any suspicion.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

But luring the people that the killer murdered for the second theory is probably more questionable than the first one.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Yeah yeah but you never know right I mean it's but but it is pretty clear though that whoever it was was somebody somebody close to the family. So yeah that is the Hinter Kayfekt murders um that uh that makes our first ever podcast and I and it's yeah it's probably um probably terrible so don't hate us guys this is our first time um but but yeah thanks for listening nonetheless um our to our to our one listener out there probably our parents um but well we are gonna see again in our next episode yeah and in the next episode I have no idea what it's gonna be but the way we're doing this is I start with one um you know and I tell the story she listens and reacts and then it's gonna be the reverse for the next one. So Mariana will tell us next time I don't know if I can we're gonna try yeah exactly so I'm excited for that one um and we will see you next week