Episode 18: Diane Downs - The Mother Who Blamed a Stranger

In 1983, Diane Downs drove to an Oregon hospital with her three children shot in the car. She said a stranger had attacked them on a rural road.

But her story quickly started to fall apart.

This week, we cover the Diane Downs case: the strange hospital arrival, her relationship with Robert “Nick” Knickerbocker, the children she may have seen as obstacles, and the daughter who survived long enough to tell the truth.

Content warning: This episode discusses violence against children, child death, and parental violence.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Most of us hear a mother arrived at the hospital with her children shot, and immediately we think she's the victim, she's the protector, that's her job. But in the Diane Downs case, the instinct is exactly what makes this story so twisted. Because the first version was that a stranger attacked the family, and the final version is much worse. The danger was never outside the car. Welcome back to Tell Me the Crime, episode 18.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Oh, 18? I thought it's 17.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

No, 17 was last week. All of our time is blending in right now. But um we are actually in a parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It's another special edition.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

And um it's another special edition. So again, the the audio quality, we have no idea how it's gonna turn out this week. So um we, yeah, this is how committed we are to you that are listening to us right now. We're uh we're stopping so that we can record this and make sure that you get your content. Um and we appreciate you all. We love you. So thank you. Thank you so much. Um, today we're gonna be talking about a really special case, a very crazy one. Um, well, all of them are kind of crazy, but this one is about Diane Downs. Okay, so Diane Downs, and it is a pretty dark case, so for you know, for anyone that has kids, um, you know, be be aware that this is not exactly an amazing case uh to hear about about if you have kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

What is about a kidnapping?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

No, so actually it is about a mother who brings in her kids to a hospital. Okay, she brings them into emergency because they had been shot, all three of them. Okay. And um she tells police that her kids were shot after some guy waved her down on a highway. She was in the car with her kids, and the man uh stopped her and apparently wanted the car and then shot the kids, then shot her, and then took off. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

So three kids.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Three kids. And they were pretty young. Yes. So the mother is Diane Downs, and her three children are Christy, who is eight, Cheryl, who's seven, and then Danny, who's three. Now the the dark part of this story is that the the details in this in this particular case don't quite add up with what she's saying happened. And it turns out to be the case. Yes, it is a lie. That it that did not actually happen. Can you guess what happened for real?

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Um Well, it's really I I don't want to say this, but I don't want to think that a mom is trying to kill the kids.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

You don't want to think about it. I know, and that's why I I gave that disclaimer at the beginning because it's kind of disturbing to think of, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Um, but yeah, that is what happened. Wow. She shot her own kids. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Uh maybe she was under pressure. And one of them was mentally unstable.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Well, she was clear, yeah. But well, actually, it's it's even worse when you think of it, because it doesn't sound like she was just mentally unstable. It sounds like they became a nuisance to her. And they were just in the way of her and her fantasy lifestyle.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Fantasy lifestyle. Would you please tell us what that is?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Okay, okay, so let's talk about her before the crime happens. Okay, she's um born Elizabeth Diane Frederickson, and she marries this guy, Steve Downs. They have three kids together. Um, she works as a postal worker, but she seems to be, you know, restless in her kind of unstable domestic life, right? So she's not very happy in her relationship with Steve. They end up getting um divorced. And it's and and by all accounts, it sounds like Diane is a person who tends to be drawn to drama. And so we've talked about this before that like you don't and we it's it's something that's surprised, and it's like what? Yeah, you're like, what? Like that people are like that, yeah, because you're so stable and like you're just normal.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

But and and we're both everyone will have ups and downs, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

I I but I'm surprised you haven't experienced it because I feel like a lot of unstable people gravitate towards stability in relationships, right? So like you'll often get that bearing where anyway, it it it it's you know we can talk about this. We can talk about this another time.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

That's a very interesting topic for a psychologist.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Okay, so anyway. So this this um this Diane woman, she was just drawn to um drama, and I guess her life was a little bit boring, and she wanted someone, I guess, who would she wanted someone that was just all about her. She wanted all the attention on her, and um, she had this affair with one of her previous co-workers, Robert while she was still in the marriage, or um. I think that they had the affair started beforehand, but when this these these shootings happened, um, Steve and Diane were already divorced. But this other guy Um that she was having the affair with, he was married for sure. Okay, at the time. So, um anyway, so she is getting restless and and and this person that she is apparently having an affair with, some people say that she's a little bit obsessive, right? So they were really they were having an affair, but she is like in love with him, and apparently the diary that she had sort of portrayed him as this like dream fantasy guy. But the the important piece here is that he didn't want kids.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Oh, okay. Right?

SPEAKER_00 7:08

So he wasn't yeah, he he had no interest in taking care of her kids or anything like that, right? So he wasn't and he was already married, right? I I think they had very different ideas of like where things could possibly go, but you know, one of the hurdles was that the kids were in the way, right? So she needed to get rid of the kids in some capacity, and she decided to stage this shooting where she would take her kids out, shoot them, and then shoot herself and then drive to the hospital and claim that this random guy did this to her.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay, this is very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

I know.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Well, I think a lot of women, or at least from the Instagram post that I often see, you know, those uh those moms or the women who divorced, they will try to find men who want to accept her and uh her kids and you know, like who she is, basically, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Right. So I yeah Yeah, well I mean you would hope that that's what people are looking for, right? Like you look for someone who can accept you for who you are, right? Rather than oh, there's this hurdle. And and to think of your choose, you know, like you're exactly but how do you even choose that? Like how do you uh kids are not objects, you know, they're they're they're human beings with lives, like this is this is not something to be disposed of, which which is one of the most disturbing parts about this is that she sees them as these disposable things, right? And so there's there's some disturbing things that uh that sort of um tripped up, right? So, you know, first of all, like why was it that in a lot of these cases too, when you know, when someone um is lying to the police about things, they often, you know, even when you shoot yourself, you think, okay, well that's uh I'm gonna shoot myself so that I can be seen as a victim too, and it's obvious who's crazy enough to shoot themselves, right? Um and it helps with the narrative, and that's very important psychologically for people to see that, oh yeah, she was physically injured, of course she's a victim too. And you're also thinking, too, like this is a mother, right? And what do you think of like when you think of a mother? What is their main goal? What is their main role as a mother?

SPEAKER_01 9:41

The main role is to protect the kids, like exactly, you know, a mom will really love the kids and she will do everything basically to protect the children and love the children and want to see how they exactly and you and you th exactly, and that's the way most people think of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:01

They think of you know the as as protectors, they they're supposed to be there to make sure that everything is is good with them, and most people will you know die. You know, they'll they'll give their lives for their kids, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

As opposed to what happened here, which is like in that situation, like the uh mom will choose the kids over somebody that she really loves, even right?

SPEAKER_00 10:24

If the man cannot accept the kids, then well, yeah, exactly, exactly. And and I and I completely agree with that, and I think most people probably would, right? So, um, but here's here's some of the things that just didn't quite add up with her story, right? Because a lot of times these these stories start to break down when they get questioned more. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Oh, but I do have a question, sorry to interrupt.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

No, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Um who planned all of this? Did she did? Was it only it was only her? Yeah. Okay, so the boyfriend did not.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

So the boyfriend was not um as as far as we know, he was not involved in that. It was oh wow, it was her doing this because he's not defend this, though. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I I hope. I mean, as far as we know, he he had nothing to do with it. But um, so so this is what she, you know, she tells people that she was driving on the road, a man, you know, flags her down, he wants the car, um, she makes some sort of you know smart comment to him and resists, and he shoots the children and shoots her, and then she drives them to the hospital. Okay, so there's a few problems with this story. Well, one is why stop for a stranger at night with children in the car, right? Like that just seems like a very reckless move to begin with, right? As a mother, right, again, going back to this idea, if you're really there trying to protect your kids, you don't have you have three young children that are all under 10 years old. Yeah, you're not gonna stop and let a strange man into your car, right? Like that just seems odd, right? Um, you know, why was she and she had said she'd been driving around sightseeing? Um, why are you doing that at 9 p.m. in the dark on a rural road? So that's like it's like um, you know, I know like you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Oh, is it summer though?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

Yeah, I don't know. That's a good question, actually. But like, come on, like who does that? That's just weird. Um and you know, why, you know, what like it just doesn't make sense, also, when you look at the witness events of how she was driving into the hospital. So uh the witness reports of how she was driving to the hospital. Okay, so she what would you do if you shot your kids? Or sorry, what would you do if your kids were shot, right? And you were driving them to the hospital because they're bleeding out. What is your what are you gonna do? How is your driving behavior going to be?

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Oh, I would be, I don't know, I would probably just try to drive as fast as I could, you know? Exactly. I would not be able to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

You would be reckless, you'd be in reckless fight mode, you would just speed there, you would drive as fast as you can, you would just go, right? But according to witness reports, multiple witness reports, she was crawling in with her car when she was driving up to the emergency. So think of that for a second, like why if your kids are bleeding out, would you slow down at the entrance? Oh no. What is that signal?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

You know, like I will just drop uh my kids and and uh you know call the nurse or whoever there in the hospital or even the security guy to just help me take my kids as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Right, exactly. Exactly. You you'd be in a you'd be in a panic and you'd be rushed because you want to try to save their lives. Yeah. But if someone is slowing down, you have to wonder, is that deliberate? Is she hoping that they die before they arrive? Exactly. She's buying the time in order to make sure that they don't survive this, right? And in the end, unfortunately, one of her kids dies.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Which one? So the youngest?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

The no, the seven-year-old, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

The second one.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yes, the second, I think it was Cheryl. Yeah, she dies from the shooting. Um, Danny survives. Um, he's the three-year-old. He survives, but he has severe injuries, including being paralyzed from the waist down.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yeah. So, you know, he's damaged, you know, for life. And then there's Christy, who's the eight-year-old. Uh-huh. Now she survives, but she's severely injured, including having like a stroke at some point.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

And so she can't talk, right? So everyone, you know, one is dead, one is a three-year-old who's severely injured, obviously can't talk about that. Um, and then there's Christy who has a stroke. She's having trouble even speaking, right? She's so badly injured. So it looks like there's basically nothing that can go against this, you know, the against Diane in this case, right? Even if you did have your suspicions about her. Until Christy. Oh, that just reminded me of like the until the shout out to Ray William Johnson, by the way. We watch his his stuff all the time. It's really it's so it's so catchy. It's just, yeah. So um, so yeah, one of the the um the big turns in the case is that Christy eventually recovers and she testifies against her mom.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Oh wow, how? How is that possible?

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Because she says her there was never a man and that the mom was the shooter.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

And, you know, she says this up on the stand for the prosecution, and she's terrified. Like she is, you know, and you and you you can think of like the fact that kids are often not very good witnesses, right? Eyewitnesses, and and you have to consider how credible they could be. But in this case, like to have a kid be so adamant that the mother was the shooter, because she's traumatized. She saw her mom kill her, you know, one of her you know her well, her sister, and then her got, you know, the brother got shot and paralyzed, and then she was shot, almost died. And then the mom also tried to herself. She did shoot herself in the arm. And uh, but the injury is just it it also doesn't make sense. Like her injury is just why shoot the kids in the first place and then mi and then not kill the mom? If you're trying to do something like that, wouldn't you want to shoot the person who could overtake you first?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, of course. Right?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Like why why would you shoot the kids then her? It doesn't it doesn't really make sense. Anyway, so so that's super super dark. So she wanted to basically get rid of them because they were obstacles, and she wanted to live out this fantasy life with her affair partner. And um yeah, that was that was kind of like the what she wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

But did she defend herself at all?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

She did. She denied it. She denied it forever. She never admitted to it. And um, she even says she didn't have a gun, right? But both um both Steve and the person she was having an affair with, both of them, um uh the Robert guy, his his name is Robert, um both of uh the husband and Robert said that she owned a handgun, a 22 handgun, which was what was used to kill the kids, right? Or shoot the kids.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

What about the fingerprint?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Uh that's a good question. Um this one was done, this is back in like the eighties. So I'm not even sure if that was like a huge thing then. Because yeah, the scene was in 1983. So it was actually around my birthday, it was in May of 1983. Uh so um yeah, so I I don't I don't think that was a huge thing that played a role.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Oh so those kids are in your age.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, so apparently she had another kid um right after she was convicted or around that same time. And that kid got taken away, of course, to you know, be adopted. Um so yeah, you imagine being that kid and finding out that your mom had like like, wow, okay, I I'm lucky because I could have been one of those. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Well, or being the two kids that survived. I mean, yeah. You can only imagine the trauma they must be experiencing from that. But like the, you know, some of the most troubling things about this case too is the mother was she was going on interviews, you know, she seemed kind of ha like not happy, but she didn't seem that disturbed by it. She seemed happy to give the interviews, you know, like very she is very attention um driven, right? And a lot of these cases are about like about seeking attention and having the spotlight on them, even if it's for a negative reason, they're still getting that attention that they wanted. And and like, you know, the the prosecution was saying is she was bored with her life, right? She she seeks drama, and if there's not that in her life. Well, I mean, I don't I don't think she would have to do that. I think that that's what people were mostly saying is that that's kind of who she is, right? So she would go on she was going and giving a ton of interviews, and it was just all her her her, and she just didn't seem too distraught by the what about the ex-husband? Um the ex-husband? Yeah, like usually he wasn't part of the shooting at all or anything.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

With the kids, did he take the kids? Did he get the uh casting?

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah, he got he got yeah, he definitely got custody of the kids, right? So um they yeah, they I mean he he didn't do anything wrong, right? So he was yeah, he was completely innocent in this whole thing. But um I don't know, it's just it's it's just so how do you how do you handle something like that? How do you get away with or or think you can live with yourself after doing something that atrocious? It just I don't know. Then again, none of none neither of us can ever imagine any of these things.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

So um yeah, what's your psychological insight about these case?

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Well actually, you know, if I want to play devil's advocate, right, you know, I I mentioned that her responses emotionally were not great, or they they seemed a little But the thing we have to be cautious about here is that your response is your emotional situation in traumatic. Sometimes people react in very weirdly. Exactly. That's why we have to be conscious in all of these cases about using any of that as evidence because that's not evidence of guilt itself. I mean the one thing that can't really be looked over is the fact that she wasn't killed. I mean, that was obviously the smoking.