Ep. 05: Laura's story & three decades to one decision

In this episode, Amy is joined by Laura, a marketing executive in Toronto, who spent three decades managing a secret that controlled every decision she made. Starting with pre-cervical cancer surgery in her 20s, she had five surgeries in her 30s and 40s to remove polyps and fibroids—all while climbing the corporate ladder and dating as a single woman. She couldn't tell anyone at work for fear of losing promotions, relied on painkillers just to get through the day, and unconsciously kept relationships at arm's length because she wasn't sure she could give a partner biological children. Three years ago, at 47, she made a final decision: a hysterectomy. But not before six months of therapy asking the hard questions—not "can I have a baby at 48?" but "do I want one?" This raw conversation reveals the loneliness of making this choice alone, the shock of leaving the hospital with zero support, and why she decided to speak her truth so other women wouldn't have to suffer the way she did.

Key Components:

• Thirty years of invisible pain: Five surgeries, constant bleeding, unpredictable cycles, painkillers she lost track of—all while maintaining a successful career and the appearance of having it together.
• She unconsciously avoided commitment because she didn't know if she could have kids, and she didn't want to be the woman who couldn't deliver that dream. Every relationship decision was hinged on a health struggle she couldn't even name out loud.
• Making her final decision: Six months of therapy helped her walk through the real questions. Not medical ones—personal ones. By the time she knew her answer was no to motherhood, she made peace with it. But there was still grief, and there was no going back.
• When she posted about her hysterectomy eight weeks post-op, it opened a door. Women started DMing her and she became the support she never had for people who had no one else to talk to.

"I felt alone. I felt like I was the only one who had all of these challenges. Nobody knew the behind the scenes. Nobody knew the personal struggles and the journey."

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🤘 Podcast produced by Binge-Worthy Studio

For informational and entertainment purposes only — not medical advice. We're here to get loud, not to play doctor.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I am so excited to welcome my longtime friend Laura Magnoli to podcast today. We've known each other for over three decades, and if it wasn't for Laura, my recovery after my hysterectomy would have been very different. She is one heck of a woman, and I am so grateful I can call her a friend. On top of being my friend, Laura is a senior marketing and business leader with decades of experience in marketing hospitality and brand strategy, driving growth for some of North America's most recognizable hospitality and food brands. Known for her ability to lead high-performing teams, build powerful partnerships, and bring brands to life through experiential marketing and storytelling, Laura has built a career presenting on stages, leading national campaigns, and operating at the intersection of strategy, operations, and guest experience. Alongside this high-demand career, Laura spent more than 20 years navigating complex and often misunderstood women's health conditions, including uterine fibroids, adomiosis, really hard one to say, and recurrent surgeries, while continuing to perform at a high level professionally. In this episode, Laura shares her deeply personal journey through diagnosis, treatment, and ultimately a hysterectomy, while reflecting on the impact these health challenges had on her career, relationships, and decisions around family. Her story highlights the importance of recognizing patterns in women's health, advocating for answers earlier, and acknowledging the emotional and life impact that major decisions like a hysterectomy can carry. Laura, welcome to the show. I'm excited to introduce Laura and welcome you to this show. Welcome. Well, thank you, and thank you for having me. I'm so excited to have you, Laura. And you know, it's always amazing when I reach out to people to invite them to be my guest on a podcast. And they're like, I don't know if I have anything to talk about or I don't know what you want me to share. And I kind of like that because it just, you know, is as it is like sitting in your underwear, it's a little uncomfortable. And, you know, there's growth in uncomfortability, as we all know. Um I'm excited to I've I remember the day I met you at George Brown College in our event planning course. I I don't I don't think I met you on the first day, but I remember you were kind of like sitting a couple rows over and you just kept answering questions. And I'm like, I want to know this girl. She's like super smart and outspoken. I love it. And I feel like by the second class, you and I were sitting next to each other. And from then on, we while we've lived separate lives, we've stayed in touch throughout variations of our of our life. And you know, as we were talking pre-show, you're like, the last time we actually saw each other in person was when Spencer was born, which is 22 years ago. So, anyways, I'm excited to have you here because I think you have so much to share. I know a little bit and a lot about you, but tell my audience, who are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Well, as I said to you, I don't know what I'm gonna have to offer. Um, and you said you're a wealth of information. Yeah. So I'm hoping I'm gonna be able to be someone of help. Um, but my name is Laura. I'm in the Toronto area here in Canada. And, you know, for my call it 30 years, a couple decades, um I've lived roles in marketing. Like as a career, it's been in marketing. Um, as you just mentioned, we took events, so a little bit of event planning, a lot of fun stuff, work for really big brands. And I would say a high-demanding career, you know, a lot of travel, a lot of presentations, you know, and that you grow and evolve in your roles. Um, so me as a career, it's dominantly been in the marketing phase space. Um, me as a person, I'm single. I have no kids, you know, sorry, I shouldn't say single. I I've never married, no kids, you know, dated, all that stuff. Um, and so my journey may relate to a different audience because there is a lot of women who have different issues, you know, and they're in, you know, a marriage, they've had children or have had, you know, some some opportunities um in in different in different spaces. Um, and so what I would say for me, what I think is unique and maybe not unique, it felt unique to me was I felt alone. I felt like I was the only one who had all of these challenges. And they go back to my early 20s. And and I say challenges from the health perspective. Well, I lived a great career, and you know, you have that great front and you're on stage and you're doing all these things, and people are like, she's got a career. And even my mom would say, Yeah, she doesn't have children because she's married to her career. You know, that's who I was as an identity. But nobody knew the behind the scenes, nobody knew the personal struggles and and the journey, you know, three decades later to get in front of you to be able to talk about it. And so um, I would say that, you know, the end, and not to still get to the punchline, my three decades got me to a hysterectomy. And so I'm sitting in front of you today as 50. My hysterectomy was at 47. So I'm actually the date that I picked to chat with you is actually poignant for me or a little symbolic. Um, it's the 30 third year anniversary of my hysterectomy on the 30th. So it was as close to the 30th as possible. Um, and you remember dates, you remember things. Um, and I remember my early 20s and my very first surgery. And it was to um remove pre um uh cervical cancer right on my cervix. Okay. Um, and so that was in my 20s, and you're thinking one and done. Right. Like it was an abnormal pap, go on in. Um, and the thing about that, and and it's one of those, you know, people don't always talk about things. I remember that early 20s. I remember the the operating room, I remember the sterile, like how sterile it was. I remember the doctor had no bedside manor, and I remember vinegar. And I can't actually have be around anybody that puts vinegar on anything because the room smelled like vinegar. And to this day, I'm traumatized by vinegar because it brings me right back to being alone, being cold, being in that room. We're just gonna go and do this and you're gonna be fine. Right. And it's like, like it was one and done and out, right? And it's like, okay, yep, fine. And then actually, you know, in the moment, you're like thinking there's nothing else. Right. Um, and then it continued. And so, you know, you you don't realize at the time that that was gonna be the the sort of the start of my relationship with my reproductive health. Right. Right. You're thinking, okay, they found something great, it's gone. Cancer, no, you don't want to ever hear that word. I'm good. And then things in my 30s shifted, you know, more symptoms. And I think, you know, as you're going and talking to other guests, you know, that that bleeding in between cycles, that very heavy period, the uncomfortable, the cramping. Um, and it left to leaving and having uh my first surgery to remove um urea um polyps on my uterus. And then it happened again. And so, like again, you're thinking one and done. Right. And then a couple of years later, and then it happened again. And so I actually had five surgeries um to remove different types of polyps and different types of fibroids because I kept thinking that's gonna be the one. Right. That's the last one. And so as I'm telling you, this this is my 30s, now getting into my 40s, and I'm still building the career. Of course. And I'm still getting on stage and on planes and on travels. And so the other piece of this is how do you cope and put on a brave face? And as a woman and a woman leader, you know, there's no time for you to be like, I can't call in today because I, you know, this. It's like, okay. And so I had a lot of um, I would say painkillers, you know, pills to help stop the bleeding. And I don't want to say became overly dependent because that sounds like an addiction. Right. Um, but became very, very dependent on just I'll pop to Advil. I'll take two, I'll take to Advil. Totally. Well, and then and then you're unconscious. Did I take two? I can't remember because I still got the pain, but I gotta go. And so then it became all of you know the dependencies on just getting through. And, you know, it was really the unpredictability because you never knew, right? You never and you never know every decision you make. Yeah. Can I go on vacation? Can I can I be on vacation? What do I need to pack for vacation? What do I need to pack for this trip? Somewhere I heard, and I don't know if it was you in in one of your how many pairs of black pants can I pack? Yeah, right. Yeah. And then you're in hotel rooms and those are crisp white sheets, right? So, like pack the dark pajamas and and like you're just it impacts your mind and decisions while still making big decisions through your day-to-day career, right? Yeah, very much so. And so, you know, when I think about that and part pair that with dating, you know, it impact that, right? Because how do you explain? And I love your story that your husband became your advocate and he read about it and wanted to be your partner and as your life partner in this, you know, when you're dating, there's you're just uncomfortable. And so you choose to take the back seat, maybe not the commitment. Um, and as more and more surgeries, and and the more I was having conversations with the doctors, in the back of my mind, I'm like, I don't even know if I'm gonna be able to have kids. Right. And when you're meeting someone and they're like, Yeah, I want five babies and I want your unconscious I was unconsciously going, let's not make this one happen and be committed because your dream might not be the reality. And I don't want to be the one not being able to be the one to deliver that for you, pun intended. Um so when I think about dating, the career, every single decision was hinging on my reproductive health. And I didn't know that until the after, until we're sitting here kind of today, and I'm preparing for for for chatting with you. And, you know, um, when I said at the very beginning I had a hysterectomy at 47, never did I think in the 20 in my 20s that that would be what the the solve would be. Right. Never in my 30s did I think that that would be the solve. Did I think I was gonna have children? Yes. But when you're not in an active relationship and you're not having, you know, that whole committed partnership, you're like, okay, so what is that gonna look like? And what is that journey? And I think not saying I self-sabotage, but looking back, you know, if I was honest with myself and had those honest conversations and maybe found a partner that was as as loving as your husband, you know, you're more in that embarrassed phase at the dating, at the early dating. You're you're and I didn't know my body and I didn't know how to answer things. And it's one of those, if I knew then what I know now, and I think if I can leave that with anybody listening, and maybe they might be in their younger generation or just starting this, speak up, be honest, don't be embarrassed. Right. Because those conversations may have changed the lanes I would have gone in and the commitments I might have made or the decisions, not changing the hysterectomy. And I want to say that that was a mistake. But I look back and go, if I was more confident and more bold and more advocacy and more with doctors and relationships, would this journey be different? And it might have been, I don't know. Um, and you don't know. So it's one of those, how did I get here? Well, it was a lot. It wasn't just one day, one incident, one heavy period. It was three decades to get to, okay, I'm gonna need to make this decision to live sort of the next 40, like the next better part of my life. And that decision came with accepting there's gonna be no children. Right. And to be in a marriage and having a partner, I can't imagine making that decision because it's impacting two people. Right. And it's impacting two lives. And I'm solo, and I'll say, I definitely would advocate if anyone is thinking about hysterectomy, I did six months of therapy beforehand because it's a final decision. Yeah, of course. It isn't like they can put the organs back in.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

It isn't like this is temporary, right? Um, I'm a person that writes in pencil. So from a commitment perspective, this was a pen decision, right? There's no eraser. Yeah. And the therapy that I had to make the decision made the decision even easier because we walk through it with each each session. All right, so you're 47. Right. Let's say the hottest guy in the bar walks up to you tomorrow night, you you connect with him, and he's the hottest guy ever, and you're gonna make beautiful babies, and you get knocked up right on the first day. Not saying she's like, I don't encourage you to do that, but let's say sometimes, you know, it happens. You never know. She's like, You're gonna be 48 with a newborn. Let's walk you, let's walk through what 48 at a newborn looks like. Right. Let the next session. Does he stay? Does he not stay? Right. Next session, what support do you have around you? How old are your parents? Right. How far away do they live? What's your apartment look like? Where, you know, what does this the daycare situation, your career? Let's talk about your career. You're on a plane every week. Right. Where's this newborn? Can you afford to take 18 months off on your own? Because you're a s so as you walk through those challenging questions, the decision came back to uh would I want a baby at 48? Not can I have a baby at 48?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Oh, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

And when it came do I want one at 48, the answer was no. Yeah. The answer actually was no. And so she said, and I thought it was so empowering, I'm making that decision. Right. The decision isn't making me make that decision. Like, and and you know, I was like, I was at peace with that. And I remember the night before my surgery, I just journaled and cried and cried because it's final. And and nobody knew. Like, that's the other piece. I did alone. Even my parents didn't know. The only way they knew was when I told them I had to move in for six weeks for them to care after a little surgery. Just need you to take, make me T mom. Yeah. Like they didn't know what I was going through. And they often learned more about it in my post op.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Because I didn't even feel comfortable. Because how do I be the daughter, the only daughter, to say, I'm not giving you a grandbaby? Like you're not getting grandchildren. And that's a tough conversation to have. And I got all very mentally in my head about that because I didn't think, you know, how do you say that to your parents? And then you have to remember it's about you. It's your life, it's your decision, it's your health. And, you know, there was a lot that went into making that decision. And again, the therapist, when it got down to my decision, then it became okay, I can do this. Right. Because I did cancel the surgery twice. Um one, because I didn't think, okay, wait, no, no, no, no. There's still hope. Right. There's still hope. Right, right. And then the second time I canceled it because I actually found out what the surgery was about. And I was like, oh, hell no, I'm not doing that. And and I'll tell you, if anybody is listening, I got so hung up on the cosmetic part of it because I was like, I'm gonna have scars. What do you mean I'm gonna have scars? Like, what do you mean? And then I, for me, I went straight to so, unlike a woman who has a C-section and can look at that scar and go, I have that beautiful baby that this scar is about. The scars to me were you can't have children. And I th and I couldn't mentally get around having those scars on my body as a reminder of you can't have children. To the point where I was like, should I put Sharpies on my body? Like where I think the incisions are gonna go. Because I asked him to draw them from. Like I got very super hyper obsessed of the scars. Like I now I'm going down a different rabbit hole, right? It's like, forget about my periods and the heavy bleeding. Now I'm in the what's my life gonna be like afterwards? And anybody gonna look at me like, what can I wear a bikini again? And I know you said, I want to bring in the underwear conversation and sit here in my underwear with you. And ladies and gentlemen, I am wearing underwear. But unlike, unlike Amy here, you know, I am not at the stage where I'm comfortable. And like, yes, I don't see three years later. Do I see the scars when I get in the shower in the morning? No, I don't. In the moment, it was a very painful reminder of there was no output for these scars. Um, and I'm going down, I'm going down paths. Stop me at any time.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Oh, I mean, um, Laura, like I I I'm like, I'm I I I I'm speechless, which is rare. Um, I you have carried, I just want to acknowledge how like how much you've carried on your own. Like, sorry. It's don't start. It's so you've carried so many different iterations of this, and you made it so personal. Like not, you made it, it's not, I don't have words right now. Like you just you were truly alone and your subconscious and the world around you, like it's not even you. It's uh I I'm I'm so I'm so sad and empowered at the same time because you felt this way and your body reacted this way and your mind reacted this way because the world around us hasn't allowed for you to have said any of that out loud. Like I'm still back at what got you to the doctors. Holy shit, dating, like you know, I didn't I I haven't dated since I was 18 years old, right? Like, but like just as you're speaking about like every time you were like, wow, I might like bleed all over the sheets, bleed all over you. I may or may not be able to have children. This is likely painful. How do I we haven't normalized any of this to be like, hey, here's my like, oh, by the way, so this is how I menstruate. It's really fucked up. Um I'm a great human. I am beautiful, I am vibrant, I am all the things. I mean, you are you are sexy and smart and beautiful. And I mean, I've I see your stuff, I see what you like and music and vacation and all the things. And and you're this like incredible human. And what makes me sad and what provoked that for me was like you are this amazing human being and you've carried this fucking weight all the way through to like how are my parents gonna feel? Like you were about to like me hysterectomies are a fucking major friend.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Like I know, I didn't know that at the time. Wow, but yeah. And and I would say, you know, the reaction and and I I I'll I'll keep it high level. My mom's like, Are you sure? Like, and it was like, so she was doing the what about this? Have you tried this? No, like and it's like because they I didn't bring them in or feel comfortable bringing them on the 20 year, 30 year journey, it was like, no, like you there's gotta be something, you can fix this, right? Or but then I I they accepted it. And then, you know, your dads, your dads are your dads, you're your daughter, they know nothing, right? Right, they know nothing. Yeah, and and and I love them for that, right? Because the innocence, but what I did say to my dad was please, because he's a very good researcher. Right. Please do not don't look it up, like don't go, don't watch YouTube, do don't don't because you don't want your, you know, it's when you know what you're getting done, you know, you don't want that tool there for them. Um, but what I would say is, and then and thank you for the kind words, the one thing I did do that I thought I don't know if I'm brave enough to do this, is at the eight-week post-op. So I use post-op pre-op, all that eight-week post-op was a was a milestone to get to eight weeks post-op. And I posted publicly on my Instagram. Oh, you did. And I took me eight weeks to write that. Like to sit on it, to get my emotions, to get my do I really because nobody knew. Work just knew I was off because I had to have a surgery. Nobody, and I say nobody can sleep. I would say I can count on five, five fingers, maybe four people that knew. And I posted that, and I remember, you know, I don't know what the to the kids say these days, like, might delete later, right? Like I don't know about if I don't, I don't know if I want this living in a public space and the outpour of people. And what I would say that as much as sharing that, and I didn't, I didn't do it for the no the car, like the the I did it from because I had to be like, I gotta go back in the workforce now. I gotta go back in life, and I'm my body isn't healed. And so I need some acceptance and some grace. If I'm wearing a really big moo moo dress today, right, right. I need some, I need some acceptance that I'm gonna say no to a few things, or I'm gonna be tired. Um, I go to bed at 8 37 now. Like it's like I'm exhausted. Like it really, yeah, it was to get the like feeling of, but what had happened, and you were one of them. Yes, I was. You are one of them, is it opened the door for other women to private message me and DM me saying, can I talk? I actually have been told I have to have a hysterectomy, and I would, I know nothing. And with you, I remember, you know, you already had all you had all done the homework, right? But it was, if I remember correctly, and and and you can um correct me, I think it was the morning after your post-stop and we're messaging, and I'm like, Do you have this? Do you have this? Did they tell you about this? And you're like, no, no, hang on, I'm on the I'm on Amazon, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Oh, totally. I was literally like 12 hours post stop because you were incredibly kind and you were checking in and you knew what you know what my surgery date was because I'd let you know, and you were you'd connected me to a group that you were a part of, and so I got to secretly sit on the sidelines of that and watch other women's journeys. And because I didn't know anyone who'd had a hysterectomy, I didn't know. anyone in my circle of friends who had endometriosis who was suffering the way that I was my friends and my husband have been incredibly supportive but no one could no one knew and you know my mom had recently had a hysterectomy because she'd had ovarian um she'd had ovarian cancer different experience different age and stage and you know and I I did when I saw your very brave post and I was like hey can I talk and tell me about this and you know when I was also like wow you've done all this on your own and I want to be there for you as well and but literally I was in the room making sure the patient across the way wasn't going to run out of her bed for the third time since I was there. Um literally like I'm I'm doing okay I'm feeling like this and I literally was on Amazon going okay I need this I need this and I and I did everything you told me to do um because I was like you've done this help me out and I knew and I just know you as a human and you know you've done the research you've you you're there to help in a genuine and and way and I wouldn't have been able to get through my recovery if it hadn't been for you Laura like you you would just show up in my DMs in my messenger just randomly and I was like I need you today like because everybody wanted to help but nobody knew what I was about to go through. And the one thing that I really also appreciated in your messaging was also like this is serious Amy like this is like this is you need to do the recovery you know and I knew you know how big of a job you had and how hard that was for you as well we're both determined like we're both busy and and full and all the lives and all the pieces and you're like you have to do recovery well and in that moment when we were having that conversation pre-surgery I was like okay this is my job like my job once I get out of that operating room is to recover because that's what I said to you. Absolutely because I've spent 30 years of my life not feeling well so if I just jump back in then how's that helpful? Like who might I'm I'm certainly not helping myself and it's just gonna prolong this whole fucking path. And I did my recovery like you told me to with all the things you told me to do and at six to eight weeks I was feeling better but you don't feel better at least for a year. And you like then you were like depending on your body yeah like you were about six seven months ahead of me and so you know what's coming next what's coming next and you know I remember you telling me how tired you were going to be and I just remember like being like oh I'm tired like right now like right now like like it's almost like narcolepsy where it's like I'm tired right now like I'm gonna fall asleep. Right? Like not that and and I don't have that and I feel for the people that do but it was literally like we could be having this conversation and I'd be like and I gotta go have a nap like pause because it's just you have you've no idea your body you've had an organ removed like and that's what I said to you.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

I said yeah exactly that's I have a friendly friend who's a who's a gynecologist and she she does hysterectomies and what she said is you might look and feel fine on the outside I rearranged your entire organs you don't see that that needs to heal and if you you know if you jeopardize that then you got other problems. Like you did all that's just it's the feel better. Don't F up. No yeah no I didn't go upstairs for two weeks. Yeah because what you don't you don't realize I so I moved into my parents' basement and I made it sort of like there's a fridge down there a bathroom um and I laid on the couch and I had propping and I had everything the heating pad and the how to get out of bed because you don't realize how much you use your stomach muscles. Yep you use your stomach muscles to stand up to sit down but to go upstairs and to pull that leg up one stair or down you could rip your stitches. Yeah and and so I remember like all right and this would be the the one thing my dad's like you're gonna be depressed in the basement you're never gonna heal get yourself upstairs and I'm like dad I will be upstairs in two weeks or when I'm ready. Yeah like thank you and I appreciate that came with love and kindness don't sit in it asleep in a basement forever and you're gonna be right you know this isn't healthy. But this is where my life is right now and this is what I need to do to not jeopardize this recovery. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Because it's yeah that important there's there's a girlfriend at my a woman at my gym who's about to have a hysterectomy and I'm just I literally I have you on my shoulders and now I have myself on my shoulders because now I've been doing it and it's like you need to and she's a yoga instructor and you know similar to me as an entrepreneur and your business is tied to your physicality and I was like you just you have to not like you literally have to not because you're screwed otherwise and you're not okay. Like you're not okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

I had a friend of mine that didn't listen so reached out for the the counsel um but I'm healthy and I'm active and I do this five times a week and I said fair and she back ended up back in the eMERGE four days later. So she then said I probably should listen to you because you're because you think you can conquer anything because you're in a health your body is a temple and I've looked after it I eat well I I do this this and this it's still organs being removed.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah and like you said it's I mean everything we've dealt with is women your your your journey with it and mine the issue is unless we didn't sleep and had bags under our eyes or our pants didn't fit because we were super bloated that day or we bled through our pants for the most part you don't see anything of what we endured nothing. And the same is with the hysterectomy you had a freaking organ removed from your body and the pain wasn't horrible I had um like a burst blood like where they kind of one did one of the incisions you know they map it out so they don't hit blood vessels and stuff anyways I happen to have one that's not the right place so it like burst and so I had bruising. So there was a few things that happened during my hysterectomy that weren't normal that caused me to be in a little bit more pain than I might have been but I didn't find it overly painful which is the mind which is what screws with your mind was you're like I don't feel pain like I don't think I needed my painkillers much after the first three days kind of thing. But you're still not okay and you're like how do I need six to eight weeks what do you mean I can't drive a car I mean I did those things I didn't drive for four weeks. I you know and I I have a house with a lot of stairs so for the first couple weeks based on your recommendation I did stay within like the one floor and then moved because I was like well Flora says it I got to do it. So um and I'm like you're doing okay so I'm like I'm gonna follow you but you feel better. I mean and my mind was going I started a color I was like how many shows can I watch because I was laying down I was doing all the things all a Yellowstone.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Yeah every version of all the series of Yellowstone I watched the 1983 all of it right and I laid vertical oh yeah and my job was to recover.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah that was my job and just when do you get a chance to binge six seasons of something never and I just I needed to move so I literally started coloring and because I told some people I did then I got the like uterus I don't have a uterus coloring books and stuff but I just needed it was a creative outlet for me. And so it was enough that I still felt like I was accomplishing something which is you know unfortunately we feel like we have to while we're recovering that was the job but it's like when you're creative and you're busy and you're you know you you do things it's weird to just go from like I was I literally went from like because I had mine at the end of August and it's event season so I went from like summer event season literally drove home the day before and you know much to my husband's he was like you need to rest and I was like no I've got to finish this job and so yeah you know and then all of a sudden you're laid out and you're kind of sent home with not a lot like I love nothing like nothing. I was basically I told you to steal the underwear. Yeah oh you did and I did yeah see that I'm like they're they're yours take them take them taking all the things I even took a blanket because I was like I'm gonna keep this with me but you leave with nothing you've had major surgery you've had organs removed and you're only in for 24 hours and then you're like oh you're if yeah if and your vitals are good and you've peed or done whatever you're supposed to do. See you later and for me um I had my ovaries removed so I was immediately in surgical menopause and so I was basically like handed a prescription for some estrogen and it was like we'll see you at the gynecologist in two years. I'm like first of all what do I do with the estrogen and why why am I still going to a gynecologist if I don't have any organs left like yeah like nobody even explains to you why you still need to see a gynecologist.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

And then here it's I had my ovaries stay like they didn't but but I had to sign that if the if they found anything when they were in there that I consented that they could remove them. And I'm like please no please no please no I didn't know why but I just knew I did I'm keep something right um and and so I didn't go into menopause and I'm I don't believe I'm in menopause right now but that's the other thing is how do I know? Because one of the first indicators is you know you you're missing periods. And then when you go for a full year after you've gone one full year with no period well I don't have that indicator anymore. Right. Right. So now it's this ambiguous game and that's sort of what my next sort of chapter of research is going to be is people like me. What do I need to look for? What do I need to watch for? You know what questions do I need to ask because just as you were saying and and and sorry for interrupting but you leave with nothing. Nothing nothing and even just I don't want to get too graphic but going to the bathroom you have to really think anything that's strenuous from your waist down totally is a risk.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

And so thinking through how does that happen when you've been bogged up on antibiotics and uh painkilling is like the first like literally it says that on all the bottles of medication we're given after surgery is like might cause constipation but you can't really have constipation because you'll hurt yourself.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

It's like and so I'm like get du galax get it right away and let you take it twice a day and don't work take it twice a day.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Right? Yeah just ease it I did all of the things that they don't tell you. Nope. No I think Laura what we need to do after this and you know you're you're a busy gal is I literally think you need to take all the things you told me and have told others and literally create Laura's posthysterectomy list or pre and post hysterectomy I'm not even joking because you saved my life like thank you in that moment it was nice to have someone on the other end. You were this incredible friend and um voice on the other end and like this you were just this warm hug. You were just someone who got it and that was unreal how massively important that was to my recovery and everything you told me to get was not a waste.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Like everything I did mattered and the thing is Laura is no one told you that and this is part of this whole reason why we're having these conversations is that if you hadn't if you like think of chain of events if you hadn't posted you had a hysterectomy and I didn't happen to see that my recovery may not have been as wonderful as it was because I wouldn't have had Laura who helped me right and I would say anybody listening while I make that novel of things you need to do um I'm sure Amy will share they can please DM me. Yes and it would be my pleasure to while I'm creating whatever I think that is a great idea. Yeah I didn't think about that. Yeah um but yeah if anybody if I can help anybody um I actually had another so when I said I've I've had a few people reach out a friend of a friend so someone I never even met she said you need to my friend did this I don't know if she can help you and she actually said you're a godsend nobody told me any of this and she was already four days post op and couldn't understand why she was feeling the way she was feeling and had zero sort of coping or support or or what she would have needed. Um and again a stranger a complete stranger and she's like this has been an eye opener for me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Yeah because there's no there's no book you and I can get if we could we would and this is why we're having these conversations right this is why when you're like I don't know why you have to talk about it I was like oh my God I wouldn't have been able to get through my hysterectomy if it wasn't for talking to you. So you've and you had to go do that. Like well there's all these conversations starting and they're so important about perimenopause and menopause and you know endo and PCOS and all the things and why we're here and why I've launched the Down there where podcast and the and the event it's like because there's still so much missing right like you and I we don't talk about it. No and and no one's researched it. And if they have it's not readily available I can't go to the bookstore right now and nor can you or find online the book that's going to tell us how to manage hysterectomies with ovaries and without ovaries because they're very different. You just said I don't even know when I'm going to be in menopause. I just I was told I was in menopause what does that mean? Like yeah what does that mean? And even you know I know the the the specialists that are out there right now and they're on stages and I'm so grateful for that but we're still like the the surgical hysterectomy menopausal ovaries still in our bodies like we're still like what about us? What about us? Because we don't know and even our doctors don't know like Mike I know I've self-directed because I've done a little bit similar to you for pre and post optimical menopause. I can't find anything on that thanks for the like astro gel. Great I'll slap that on my body. See in two years. Right? And then I'm like okay so you feel you know you recover and then you feel okay ish and then you're and I just knew because you were two months I was like oh this is what Laura's feeling this is what I'm gonna feel. And then all of a sudden you get to a year and all of a sudden the weight starts coming on all of a sudden you're still tired. Should I still be tired? Why am I gaining weight? I'm not just gaining it like I literally haven't changed my lifestyle at all. I've actually gotten better like post dysterectomy I was like I've got to be fit so like a year later I started lifting weights doing other things I'm like why am I I'm gaining weight I'm still tired I've got brain fog beyond belief but shouldn't I be okay? I've got I'm rubbing on the estrogel like I should be fine like what is all that and then I have literally found doctor like I'm paying out of my pocket for my care and piecing together bits of research and bits of information and trying to find the right healthcare providers because I don't I spent 30 years of my life feeling like shit.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

Yeah I didn't have a hysterectomy so that I could then feel like shit for another 20 just in a different way without a fucking tampon like and that's and that's kind of what I'm at is I keep going to get more tests done or whatever because there isn't a is this normal right or do I have something else right or has this triggered something else. Right. Um because there isn't anything there and and even just one connection like your body gives you clues and if you're not listening to the clues you know they're giving you signs. And for me I was always having migraines and since the hysterectomy I have less migraines and this was just mind blowing for me because on top of the painkillers I'm ODing on migraine medication. And what I realized no so again I am no doctor no scientist neither I this is my own personal journey was well of course I'm gonna have less migraines because I'm not always on my period. And so I was getting a lot of migraines because my periods would trigger a migraine so right before my period I would get a migraine well when you're always bleeding and always on your period it was like living in a state of migraines. Right. And so now this is sort of my clues is I get two migraines a month and I can catch it now. Right when I would have got my period. Interesting so I actually still use three years later I still use the same period app tracker okay so that I can track migraines now. Right and then when I would have ovulated and it's amazing almost how clockwork it is that I can I'll look at the calendar and be like within this 24 hours 48 hours I know there's going to be a migraine and I'm ready to top take the pill to catch it. Right. Where so again, even though I'm still getting two migraines a month beforehand I was getting like I felt like it was a month of migraines because it was tied to this wahoo of a cycle that had no cycle. Right. So that was just a little thing that again if you're listening and tracking and doing the tracking you can connect some of the the patterns in that and then I do remember speaking to to my direct boss at the time because I think the thought was well I don't have time to take six weeks off. It's never a good behind and she as a woman didn't know the details and all she said is I've got you like this is something if you need to do this. And I think as leaders and as those that show up in the workforce I don't know if we're as empathetic to what um and again your your speaker that you had on um I think it was Yvonne your last speaker talking about Yolanda thank you and her having to show up every day at work and getting phone calls at work and like you when you are performing and working every single day they don't care. They don't care and I rushed back. I did take the six weeks because I felt pressured to be back. I was still I started to dabble in an email from home on the couch. Right week five ish and then I literally had a three day off site my first week back and I'm like how the and I'm packing the heating pack like I'm packing the medical everything and it's like because they expect you to be there. You are a leader and you are going to be at this three day off site and I'm like I am just back and I I now regret that I absolutely now regret that but what I would say is if you're on the fence or there's never a good time there's never gonna be a good time. No never no never gonna be a good time and you have to put that's the one thing I didn't do is I need to needed to put as much as I put my career first and I showed up every day for my career I wasn't showing up for myself. Yeah and careers come and go jobs come and go titles come and go show up for yourself first.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yeah agreed and I think that is so important because you're ultimately prolonging the inevitable and then prolonging the inevitable you're also still living in pain you're still living in silence you're still like you don't well you you know you're living in the unknown of what that means once it's over you hope and I know hope's not a strategy but you hope that you take that next step for your health that things are going to get better. And I similar to you I was my doctor's like you need to have it you know June and I was like well you know the summer's a really busy season for me and being an entrepreneur I mean I'm very grateful that my husband is supportive in all of it. But as an entrepreneur and then as an event planner my summer is my summer is literally that's peak. That's peak. Like I have to move and so I did make the choice to do it at the end of the summer but I didn't wait till November. I did have to you know I had an incredible team of friends and family who came who walked the dog who fed us who did the things when Eric wasn't around and I had an incredible team that showed up for me to do the job because to your point there was never going to be a right time and the only person that was suffering was me and was you and the workplace it's it's I can't wait to continue to have conversations with people like yourself and Yolanda like the workplace thing is really struck a chord for me in terms of how unsupported I don't want to say it's unsupported because it's unsupported because people don't know and I feel like it's going to be helped by women like yourself who've now been through the adventure that you've been through myself, people like Yolanda who now can stand back and go, okay, like this isn't okay. So what can we do to better support women in the workplace? Because while we can you know add some like we can help people identify symptoms and stuff it doesn't all of a sudden mean you're gonna become someone like me who's willing to sit here in their underwear and walk into an office and be like, oh by the way like this is happening to me you could still be someone like you who kept it to yourself. And I would say more people are like you than they are like me. And there was absolutely times I didn't tell people but I certainly didn't keep it as quiet as yourself and most and that we're doing a disservice to all women then there's still shame and guilt and you can't you know like when Yolanda brought up the fact that she's like I can't even tell anyone I'm going through this because there's here's the myriad of of things she's trying to have babies. Well we can't promote her what if she, you know She's gonna be off because she can't. What it like mental health, all the things. And so you just go, all right, I'm just gonna do this all by myself. And then, you know, you add a layer in terms of which I think is important and shouldn't be forgotten, is you were you were an independent woman at home as well. And so, and whether it's by choice or I believe your subconscious helped with all that, and um that's why you have therapists and done all the things that you've done, because you you held yourself back because of all the things that were happening to you. And it just shows, and I think that's what got me in the heart in the beginning of our conversation is it's society at large, it's the lack of information, and then it's just literally generationally how we're just meant to keep all that literally down there under there. And it's it's not okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah, and there was something that Yolanda said on hers that struck a chord is um when she was talking about baby showers, and then she leaned into while she got this devastating news at work, everyone was sending flowers to a coworker that got their appendix out. Yeah. And so for me, when she said that, the first, and I didn't even think about this in the moment, we're talking three years later. Yeah, what came right up to the surface for me when she said that, and again, different circumstances for sure, was I just went through a surgery, and I will never have a baby shower. Right. I will never get that card, that balloons, the what you know, all the stuff that you see. Yeah. I will never get that. But with the exception of one friend who dropped off cookies and she was in the neighborhood, she lives nearby with a card, didn't know what my surgery was. It was a get well soon card because she knew I had surgery and a family friend that same thing, get well soon. There was no, and again, my choice for not sharing, right? Had I shared, there was no, I'm really sorry, or how are you doing? Because that is such a huge dislike, it is a huge surgery, a huge decision, a huge um, I say decision, but also like that is a chapter that is closed. And I don't think publicly anybody acknowledges when a woman has that, there is physical pain, mental pain, emotional pain, and you have to grieve and with no support network around, and I'm telling you, there isn't a card at Hallmark that's gonna say, I'm so sorry you had a hysterectomy, you'll be okay. Right. Like even that won't do it, right? No. And even just when some people did start to find um find out, well, you could always adopt. You don't think I thought of that? You don't think I thought of that? Thank you. And it comes from a good plate. It's it comes from a very and I know someone, a colleague of mine um who's just adopted and it her watching her journey and story has been beautiful. But just throwing that at me right now, that's not you know, please don't say that, right? Yeah, um, because I know that I'm very well aware that that was an option. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Yeah, looked at that, disfigured that, yeah. Yeah, like, yeah. And they did the homework. It's it's so true. And um I was gonna say something and I lost my train of thought because my mind is just blown right now. And it it oh, what the point is is like you and I, you for different both of us for different reasons, hit this hysterectomy, the hysterectomy mark. There are women who are 20 years our junior, who are in 30 years our junior, who are in their 20s having hysterectomies, and what support network is there for them? Like they're all they're like literally in the heart of watching. I mean, we know how life works, right? Your friends find a partner, they get married. I mean, obviously things change and not everybody's doing all the things, but like traditionally in the world, you hit your 20s, people are dating, they get engaged, and then the, you know, so marriages are starting and babies are starting, and life as you know, the playing house as kids and those kinds of things start to happen. And so now you're in your 20s and you have a hysterectomy. So, like you literally have there's like you're never like the only option for you is surrogate and adoption, which are beautiful and available and amazing that there's still options. However, to that physical, to your point of like this is about me, you can't. And you know, I think of those women, and I look forward to finding them because I want them to get care as well. Is if you're 20 some odd years old and you have a full hysterectomy like I did, you're in menopause in your 20s. Like, like what's happening for you, and you know, at least I'm a part of the menopause conversation right now because my friends are of the age group.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Right, it's topical in our age group, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:13

So, like we're I'm surrounded by people who are talking about it and what supplement are you doing, and you know, calm magnesium before bed flavor, and like all the things. But if you're in your 20s, not one of your friends is talking about service. And there's no relatability at all. No, and I think we're cool and people should hang out with us, but you know, in your 20s, like we're their kid, like those are that's my kid, that's his girlfriend, that's his fiance, that's his, you know, they're not ha hanging out with us, like unless, you know, we're unless we're buying them dinner. Right, like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

Yeah, that is huge. Um, if but can I share one more story? Yes, please. You mentioned something when you were in the hospital about uh you were there was a roommate you had. Yes. And or or people that were moving in and out. Um, so speaking of younger person, um, I thought I had the ocean view room to myself. Okay. Because I checked in at four, well, I had my surgery in the morning. At four o'clock, I got moved into a uh room, which was great. There was nobody in there. I got the window, I was delusional. Um and and actually I'll I'll code down another story if there's time, but yeah, and then around midnight, um, they moved a woman in and a very young lady. And and I want to be mindful of her story and and keep it her her a bit private, but um, you know, she was in the ER all day and she got moved in with and her boyfriend, and there was no visiting hours, and then he had to leave. And I'm listening, and again, you want to respect their privacy, but it's a curtain. Like I can hear everything that's happening, right? It's a curtain. There is no wall. And then my first thought was like, well, there goes my private suite. Right. Right. But then I'm listening to the conversation, and they're prepping her for emergency surgery. She was in the ER, and and so she was, as soon as the doctor left, I could hear her crying because she was in her early 20s, mid-20s, rather, and she's alone. And I just yelled, I'm not yelled over the wall. I'm like, I just want to let you know there's someone over here. If you need anything, I don't know what you're going through, but I just I'm on the other side of surgery if you have any questions. And so through this curtain, we had this conversation. And I I kind of said to her, I said, Look, I don't know what you're you're getting done, and it's not my business. Um, but just know it's gonna be cold and and and they're gonna give you a bit of a blanket, but like it ain't gonna do much. And like you're probably it's not like Gray's anatomy, because I'm I'm trying to relate to that, right? Like, um, you know, you're gonna walk into the OR with your own two feet, nobody wheeling you in, and you're gonna crawl up on the OR bed because nobody's wheeling you up there, and they're gonna give you something and and they're gonna say, count to 10, you might get to eight. Um, you're not gonna feel anything, and then they're probably gonna bring you back up here. And so if you have any stuff, like don't worry, I'll watch it for you. Like, I'm an honest person, like your phone isn't gonna hit still. And I'm just trying to like calm her. And and I thought to myself, I had six months of therapy, 47 years to kind of get through this, and she had 25 minutes to know she's going into emergency surgery. And again, it wasn't a hysterectric, and I want to speak, keep it private, but enough to impact what's gonna happen for the rest of her life. For sure. And no support. And so she gets wheeled back, and I'm still in a lot of pain, and I'm calling the nerves like you, like I'm right, you know, delusional and still on painkillers. And before she got dismissed through the wall, we exchanged phone numbers and she said, Can I message you? You've been such a great support. And I said, Yeah. And so during our post op and while we were both off, we text every single day. And she didn't have anybody because she can't talk to your circle. So, like you said, her friends won't understand. Um, I'm I wasn't offended in any shape or form when she said I'm kinda her mom's age. Yeah, but like I but I'm like, I like but but but also, and so we met for the first time in person on our one-year uh surgical anniversary, and we are meeting for the breakfast this coming for our third anniversary, and we still stay in touch. But just thinking about your conversation about that younger generation and what do they do and who do they have made me remember to tell you this story because she would have been on her own. Yeah, and she wouldn't, she walked into the same hospital I did on the same day I did, different surgery, different recovery, but enough to, I don't know what I'm gonna do next. I don't know what's coming next. Life salted. And she leaned on me in a way of like, you're the older person. Yeah, you've done more homework. Like, what am I gonna, what do we expect? And she's just a beautiful soul. I'm so happy I'm in her life and we still stay in touch, but where is she getting the support? And where is that generation for for you know what they're going through in a different age bracket and a different phase in life than we are?

SPEAKER_01 53:56

Well, and unfortunately, well, one, Laura, you're an angel to so many. So as you're you know, as you're always contemplating, you know, in life, how what how what effect do I like what you are there in an unbelievable way to people? Like, so you know, know how much like if you didn't most people wouldn't talk through the curtain, just know that. Like you gave her a gift, and it's you, it's who you are. So you don't so you don't know that you're this like unicorn, but you are so own that and thank you. Um, you were for me, and you clearly were for your your new girlfriend, and you know, it's the problem is is they don't have anyone to talk to because nothing's changed. Like, you know, Natalie, who is our creative director and done all our branding, um who is on the podcast already, you know, she's in her 20s and she's literally verbatim at being told the same things I was 35 years ago. Like there's how nothing has I know things are changing, and again, you and I aren't doctors, we're living through our own lived experience and the people that are in our circles, and you know, we're doing this so that we can create change and we can, you know, take away the loneliness and take away the like, am I nuts? No, this isn't real. Like, this is real, and it's you know, it's finding community of people who understand. Like you and I didn't have the same history hysterectomy for the same reasons or have the same outcome, you know, like we're I'm in surgical menopause, you're not. But we're still we're still a community of women who didn't know why and all the things, and why are we there? And nobody helped us. We still left hospitals with nothing in our hands except for stolen underwear because Laura told me to, like, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:56

Like, by the way, you can buy hospital underwear on Amazon, and I encourage you to do that. That's all you did.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

You also told me to do so. I did that, but I also stole a pack because Amazon, well, is quick. It is still gonna be 24 hours, and I didn't want to not have underwear for 24 hours, but also why are we feeling like we're stealing it? Why is it not in a gift pack? Yes, right? Like, why is it not? Here's your take-home pack of supplies, because you know, we still, especially in Ontario, where we live like OHIP, our taxes, like those are ours. Why do we feel like we have to steal them? Why did someone not tell us what they were, right?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Like, there's there's before we go to hospital jail. The nurse did say, if you want to take those extra ones, you can. Right. We're not right. So I'm gonna go to hospital jail. We didn't really steal them, but she didn't we bird said if I would take them, they were mine.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

But at the same time, we steal them. Yeah, like but at the same time, we shouldn't even, they are there, and I don't think any nurse would be like, Oh, you shouldn't take them. But we second guess, should we when they're in need, and they should literally be our goodie bag as we're leaving. Like, right? Like, think about it. If we had goodie bags of like, and why not? Should they be fun? Because I think everything should be a party, even if it's a shit show. But like, here's your goodie bag, here's your seven days, or like I think now you're gonna create this like what everybody needs pre and post-op list, and then you know, we're gonna put that in the show notes, and then people are gonna be able to download it when they're DMing you so that you can take care of them, Laura. Like, you have literally, if you didn't do that, like I said, I wouldn't be where I was. If you didn't talk to that woman through the curtain, you wouldn't have had a new friend, and she certainly wouldn't have felt support. Like you have given a gift to so many through your story, and especially when you kept it to yourself. I wish I could have given you more. I wish I knew sooner. I'm so grateful you shared. I'm so grateful you took a risk and came on today to talk to me. I think we could talk forever. And I think so. And and I'd love that. Oh, yeah. My gosh, Laura, you are a gift to me and to everyone that you touch. So thank you. And absolutely, people are gonna want to reach out. So, how can they do that? Laura, we'll put it in the show notes, but how can people react to it?

SPEAKER_02 58:18

Just through Instagram. It's probably the best if they DM me through Instagram and you'll have my handle and all that. Yeah, absolutely. Any last words? You know, I would just, I think I've said a lot of things um throughout. And all I would say is just listen to your body. And as you've said from your first episode, and as you're saying every episode, advocate for yourself and and really just make sure that you're putting yourself first and you are not alone. And every everybody's journey is different, but you are not alone in thinking and feeling how you feel. We just don't have the medical system that's gonna back us up and support us and give us the leaflet that we need with everything that we need to know. We've got to be advocates for ourselves. And um, yeah, I just I think that's important that I might have waited too long because I thought I was by myself. And I think that if that message can get out of, you know, whatever you can do as best as you can, as soon as you can, your quality of life will change. And that's what's the important part is you're living your life, not letting this live, you know, manage you.

SPEAKER_01 59:20

Totally. Well, we're gonna drop the mic right there. Thank you so much. I'm thank you so much. So so grateful you are here. Thank you. Thank you for the invite.