Ep. 08: Rashidah's story & how to build your village for postpartum

Rashidah is a registered nurse, certified nurse midwife, lactation consultant, and doula from Chicago with 30 years in women's health. She spent decades in labor and delivery, taught nursing students for 20 years, and recently retired to do what she's always wanted—be a postpartum doula and lactation consultant. But Rashidah also has her own story. She spent years managing heavy periods and fibroids, refusing surgery until Covid made the decision for her. In this episode, she talks about the village we need to build around postpartum moms, why "bouncing back" is a myth, and why women need to stop keeping their health a secret.

Key Components:

• A C-section is major surgery that we treat like it's nothing, and what that actually means for your body in the weeks after.
• The postpartum village is not optional—it's essential. Asking for help isn't weakness, and you need people showing up before you fall apart.
• How menopause can show up as a hot wave, not a flash: even surprising someone who's spent 30 years in women's health.
• The advice that seems obvious but apparently still needs saying: From douching to taking up space, what women actually need to hear.

"A C-section is a major surgery, and we act like it isn't because we do so many of them"

👉 Click here to join the movement at downthereaware.org

🩲 Subscribe, like, and share to show us you care!

🤘 Podcast produced by Binge-Worthy Studio

For informational and entertainment purposes only — not medical advice. We're here to get loud, not to play doctor.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I am super excited to welcome Rashida to the show. Rashida, welcome to the Down Their Aware podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you. Um, I just had a chance to get to know you a little bit before we jumped on, but our audience has not yet. So please tell us who you are and what makes you such an incredible uh good human.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Okay, I don't know about incredible, but I think you're incredible already, and I've just met you. Oh well, thank you. My name is Rashida. I live in Chicago. I have been here my entire life, with the exception of uh undergrad. Um I complain every year that I'm not doing another Chicago winner, but yet I am still here. I am a registered nurse as well as a certified nurse midwife. So those are my two state-regulated licenses. I have certifications kind of deep into women's health. I am a lactation consultant. I am a certified doula and I teach child work classes. So I've been in the women's health game for about 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah. Wow. And what what got you into the women's health space? Why did you decide to do what you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Oh, that one's almost a little bit embarrassing. So I went to nursing school, right? And I'm just in nursing school. Honest, I think I I wanted to be a pediatric nurse, or at least that's what I thought. And in school, I had a couple experiences in peace that nope. And they weren't even, they weren't terrible. It was rough to me because I was 20, 22, I don't know. Um and now that I am an adult with life, I understand that of course the parents acted that way because mama bear, papa bear. Right. But it was just, I was like, oh yeah, no, I can't do peace. So right.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Like I was giving a kid, two or three-year-old, I was giving him a bear. And his dad is watching me like every move I make.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

And I'm thinking, I'm I'm doing it right. I'm I'm not doing anything wrong. This isn't the way. And now I understand. Right. And now if I'm a kid and the parent isn't looking, I'm thinking, why aren't you looking? So I was a people not for me. Um med surge on the medical surgical floor, sick people.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

I knew that was not for me. So I kind of decided, uh, let's see. And it was, it was honest, it was by accident.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I interviewed in summer for one of those, like, you're a nursing student, let's give you a job that kind of exposes you. And I did interview on a medical floor because that's what was available. Right. I knew I didn't want they had the brand new unit and the pretty uniforms. Nope, I don't want this. I went to postpartum and they interviewed me, and I asked the question when I come home for summer, will I be able to pop in and work? And they were kind of maybe it was really, really uncertain. And then I interviewed and labored in delivery and I asked that same question, and they said, absolutely. Like they were like, Oh, we are so busy, just call up. Right. So that's kind of how I landed there. And I stayed there, done a little bit of postpartum. Um, this is a little bit obnoxious, but considering what we're talking about today, at that time I felt like I don't want to look at my own pads. Why would I want to look at yours? Right. Like postpartum just was not my thing. Fair. So I stayed in labor and delivery for the whole time. I went to graduate school, became a certified nurse midwife, did that for a while, and then again by accident, um, I actually oh I had surgery. I'm thinking, what happened? I had a hernia repair. And during that time off, when I came back too soon, and it was really tough. And then I as still as a midwife, and then I kind of accidentally fell into teaching. Somebody said, Hey, they are interviewing, they're looking for an instructor. Are you interested? I interviewed at a community college, and then I taught for 20 years. And primarily I taught OB nursing. I did a little bit of PEDs and a little bit of droid calculations. Yeah, because I am a math nerd, I am a math nerd. I love that. I love that. Well, I taught women's health, so I was back in labor and delivery and postpartum with nursing students full-time, really, really wanting to be a lactation consultant and a doula. Not sure how I could make that work financially, you know, still support my family. I didn't know what the doula world would look like. So I continued teaching and just kind of preparing myself. So I knew I was gonna retire as soon as I could. Um the college where I worked, the deal was you could get out at 55. So I started playing. I am out of here. It it did become stressful, but really it was what I want to be is a doula and a lactation consultant. So I studied, I took the exam, kind of prepared myself. So when I once I retired, I had those things in place. And so now that's what I'm doing. Like really, really, really part-time. Amazing. And even though I feel like I work more now than I did when I was working full time. I am terribly sleep deprived. Uh menopause. Nope. Not, but yeah, I feel like I am chronically phoggy.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, I hear you on that. I okay, so much to unpack here. So as a labor delivery nurse, so for some of our listeners, if they're if they haven't had babies yet. So I know you know, as you know, that down there where podcast is all about everything from, you know, your first period of menstruation to your last period and beyond. And so we definitely have some listeners who possibly haven't had their babies yet. And as a nurse practitioner and all the things that you have done, what advice would you offer? Like what are, you know, because one of the things we talk about in the medical field a lot or that's lacking is we're not informed. Like the actual person, we don't know what to ask you. You might have all the answers, but we don't even know what to ask you. And I think, you know, as a nurse and as doctors, and you have so much information, you don't know what's necessarily important to me, other than maybe like hear the basics. So if someone's preparing to, you know, they're pregnant and they're heading into this new world, which you're not prepared for either. What is what is some of the advice that you would offer? What is, you know, some of the suggestions, some of the questions, you know, with all your years' experience.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

So we're talking to somebody who's already pregnant or could be any anything that you want to share.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Like any anyone listening right now will be like, oh, great. I want that piece of advice. And so whatever you'd like to share.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

So just women in general, pregnant, never been pregnant, planning to be pregnant, do not douche. I don't know why they still sell those things.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

That is not a flower.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

It is never going to smell like flowers. Please don't put flowery stuff in there.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

It washes away what needs to be there. Again, I can't believe they still sell those.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

It's so funny that you even start there because something came up the other day and I was like, do those things still exist? Because I feel like they were huge in our generation because, you know, again, we were supposed to be kept as these like perfect flowers and can't smell and you can't do this and you can't be seen and all the things. And I was like, they still exist? Like exist.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Well that, and I don't, I don't even know. Yeah, no, don't whatever wash away with soap and water on the outside probably needs antibiotics. Do not do it. Good advice. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Don't douche. Love it. Done. That's ever crazy. Yeah, it's so funny. It was so big, I feel like in the 80s, 70s, 80s, 90s. I feel like it was a thing. Like there was a whole counter, like a whole display. They're a whole product.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Amazes me.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

That's crazy. Okay. First piece of advice. Don't douche. What else have you got for us?

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Um for pregnant people, I would say do your own homework. So if you are starting with Instagram, TikTok, you know, I I I make a joke because I watch a lot of reels and I never know if I saw it on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. I saw Insta Talk. If you saw it on Insta Talk, okay, that's a place to start, but do your own homework. Okay. I see now we are into empowered birth and people making your own decisions. And I see a lot of that. Um, and I'm happy, but I also see people that I think have made the decision, made decisions based on what they saw or heard on Instatal, because they'll say something and then they I can tell that they don't have the information. And and I'll give you an example which is more about the example, it's about the baby, but it tells me that the parents didn't do their homework. So as I told you, I'm a lactation consultant. So I do myself, I have to remind myself, what hat am I wearing today? Where am I? Stay in my lane, right? So I'm waiting my turn to talk. And the nurse asks the mom and the dad, who baby is not an hour old yet, the three medicines that we give in Illinois. We give pretty much every baby gets vitamin K, erythromycin, and they're offered hepatitis B vaccine. So they ask, Do you want these medications? Parents say no, no, no. And then she says, Do you want your son circumcised? And she says, Yes. Well, she just turned down vitamin K. Vitamin K is to help with blood clotting. There is no provider in this building that is going to cut your child's penis if we did not give him vitamin K. So is it to me? Because now he can bleed out. Right. And we did it. Like he could still have a bleed, but we did it. Right. So that's to me, you heard somebody say turn down those medications, but you didn't follow through and do the homework on what this medication is. Maybe you heard the cons, but you didn't check the pros. You are the parent, you have every right to make a decision for your baby, but I want to make informed decisions. So in that moment, then they had to kind of rethink well, wait, do we want to reject this vitamin K more than we want to have this circumcision?

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Like which one is more important to us? So that's what I mean when I say do your own homework. Um, again, you have every right to reject that vitamin. There are there are reason pros and cons to everything, right? Right. And be aware of what comes next and why. Yeah, that's true. And I do see a lot of families, you know, being women being encouraged to have an induction. Okay, what's the medical reason for this? If you are going to accept or decline it, know for yourself why this is something you do or do not want versus just what you kind of random heard.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Right. Yeah, I was I had an induction, I was uh pre-eclimptic and pretty severely pre-eclimptic with my first one. And induction. Yeah, and so and but you know, it's your first baby. I'd never really heard about it. All of a sudden you're in the hospital and you're not allowed to, like, I wasn't allowed to leave, and I'm like, I have a wedding to go to. Like, what do you mean I'm not allowed to leave? My baby's not coming for three weeks. And, you know, you limited, like when I had my kids 22 years ago, I couldn't quickly check on, you know, on my phone to be like, why would I have an induction or not? And so I asked, I continued to ask questions and like, can I leave? Can I come back? And it was like, no, you're in you and the baby are in danger. I'm pretty sure the nurse actually said to me, if you leave you or the baby will die. I'm like, okay, I guess I'm staying.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And I I am not a fan of that type of fear mongering.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah, no, I wasn't a fan either.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Um I don't, I don't think well, I'm I'm definitely not a fan of that type of fear mongering. Yes. Severe preeclampsia is a reason to be induced. Um, and especially severe. Like was when was the wedding? Was it that day, the next day?

SPEAKER_00 13:04

It was the next day, and my blood pressure was like off the charts, and I was gaining two and a half pounds of water a day. Like it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Looking back on that, I'm gonna say that yep. You need the right decision to ask this day.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Um I guess I wouldn't pull out the you are the baby could die unless you were like tying up your shoes and really gonna leave.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

I was like, can I maybe go pack my own bag? Because everyone's like, pack the bag. I was like, I'm not gonna pack the bag until after the family wedding. Uh my kid's not due till mid-January. It's December 30th. Like, what's the deal? And it was like, nope, you're not leaving. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

And that's a good medical reason to be induced. Get pressure off the chat, off the charts, absolutely. Um, but sometimes they will, it's kind of a loose. It's like, okay, you're 39 weeks now. We could probably go ahead and get this baby out. Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:05

Oh, that really increases the chances that I'm going to get a C-section if my body isn't ready.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Like, is my baby, is my baby safe right now? Right. Is my body okay right now? Can we like whatever it is that you're worried about, can we just check that same thing again tomorrow?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Right. Right. Instead of rushing to induce. I didn't even I just I didn't even think about like your body being ready. Like, I mean, I know that sounds like common sense, but it was, you know, you just think your body's ready when you're about to have a baby because it's ready to have a baby, but it's not. And so yeah, that's that's interesting. And I like I I even just like those two simple questions. Is my body ready and is my baby like, is my baby safe? If yes, can I come back? Like, I'll come back tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

Yes. And we see we're seeing more of that now, but it's still not as much as it could be. Right. In my opinion, right? I did not go to medical. Right. However, I can read. Yeah. I mean, yes, there are reasons to induce, and blood pressure off the charts is definitely. However, if we do have now people have blood pressure cuffs at home, right. And take the blood pressure once or twice a day. And if it hits this number, I want to see you on my doorstep. Right. I think that's a reasonable thing to give people time for their body to be ready for labor.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Right. I like that. Yeah, I think that's important. And then so you so now we've had like we've we've we've had a baby and we're now in the hospital and you know we're heading home for the first time. What are some of the things we can do to take really good care of ourselves when we're at home?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Sleep a lot. Yeah. Um like we need to lean on our village. We don't feel so obligated to be independent. I got this, I can bounce back.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

Accept help. Right. And then as the village, we need to be the village.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Right. Well said.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Random offer, hey, you don't need anything, do you? No. Show up and do it.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

What would help we need to take better care of new parents? Right. They are terribly sleep deprived. Right. And in survival mode. So whatever they need, we should adjust to it. We know people have a hard time asking for help. So we should put things in place so that they don't have to ask.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:01

And the parents accept any help that is offered. Yeah. And and you know, honestly, I tell people if somebody offers something that you absolutely do not need, right? Sure. Right. Say no thank you. Got that under control. But what I really do need is like, because if you say no thank you, they're gonna stop offering.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Right. Because people are like, okay, they got it. You're all good. And it's it's interesting because I feel like at the same time, you know, in the beginning, having been blessed with being able to have babies after my own journey with endo and all the things. And then on the other end, when I had my hysterectomy, you know, age and stage in life gave me, it was so uncomfortable. But I literally created a six-week calendar because people offered to help. And I needed, I knew people wanted to help because I'm a helper. So if I'm gonna ask the person, I want to be a part of the village. And if I'm gonna ask, and people like, I don't know. And I was just like, I'm actually going to tell everybody what I need. Like, literally, here are the things I can and can't do. And I made a spreadsheet of like walk the dog, drive the kid to school, make the meal. I'm very lucky. My husband's a firefighter, so he's around a lot. But when he was gone, especially in the first three, four weeks when I couldn't drive, I needed someone to drive my kids to school. They couldn't drive yet. Um, I needed someone to walk the dog. Like I didn't want to be a hero. And I feel like, did it really take me 40 or 30 years to not be a hero? And so at the beginning, like to me, here's the spreadsheet of like laundry, fold laundry. Like my mom used to come over and hold the baby, and I didn't feel the need to hang out with my mom. You hold the baby, I am gonna go sleep. Right. Because I'm gonna like I don't want to talk, I don't have the brain space to talk to you. And I just need to lay down. And there was a few times where I absolutely went and did laundry because I just wanted to feel normal as well, like I wanted to do something. But being clear in what you need is, and you're not always gonna know, but there's some basics, right? Like if you're listening and you're like, it's there, like meals have to happen. Like, is your husband at work? Is your partner, your wife, what whatever, who's around? What do you need? Like, I think it's so important.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

I agree. And I often tell people if you are uncomfortable asking people, put a erase board on your refrigerator or put sticky notes on the wall. And when they say, Hey, hey, what do you need? Right, you can point and say, There's a list over there. If there's anything that you can do, right, I would be so grateful. And then just I love sticky, whatever. It's almost like baby registry. You've allowed them to pick the thing that they are comfortable for, just like you made a spreadsheet. Yeah, you had the and so people were able to pick what worked for them. Yeah, so they are helping, but it's not flipping over their Apple cart in order to be of service in order to help you.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I think I might I think I might put a whiteboard on my fridge right now and just start putting a list and hope everybody in my house starts to do things. I think that's just a great life lesson. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Is there something you can do to help me? And you mentioned like food. Yeah. For me, that is the big thing. That's not everybody's thing. Right. Tell people that. Well, before this baby comes, whoever is the adult in your house, your husband, your wife, your best friend, you live with your mother, whoever is the adult in your house or adults. Think about all the things that have to happen in your house to make things flow. Right. Who does those things? You might need to write them down. Some of that stuff is going to shift to somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

And some of it's not going to get done. Right. And that's okay. Right. What's important? Pick out the most important things. The things that if this doesn't happen in my house, I feel completely crazy. Right. Right. Make sure those things happen and then let the other ones go. And if you're lucky, there's some overlap between you and the other adult in your house. Right. And so you don't have to do six things. Maybe you can do two or three. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Well, and I think it's important. Like if you're recovering from, you know, I even like if I if you're recovering from a c-section, like you can't do certain things. And so even taking the recycling in the garden, like I'm a blue box, I do the blue box chores here in our house. So garbage and recycling, you know, is my job. And so if you're having a C section, like someone's gotta do that. And even, you know, post hysterectomy. It's really funny. I had two of my my girlfriend uh Cormier and her partner RJ came and they came and stayed for a couple days to help. And at one point, Cormier's Carrying out the garbage and this stuff. And she's like, Amy, do you see how many people it takes to manage your life? And it was we all know what we do, and I'm not saying I'm a freaking hero by any means, but it's just to your point of like what needs to happen and how much really happens to take care of a life. And whether that's, you know, post-baby, post shitty fucking period, post-hysterectomy, whatever, the but like even all the things that can happen, right? Like, how do we get the care we need so we can heal? Like that to me is so important. We have to heal and we forget, I think, as women, more than anything, that our body is going through extraordinary trauma monthly with a period, it may not be extraordinary, but it's still doing things that we have no control over. And our flow does different things to our brain and our mind and our bodies throughout our months. And so whether it's the, you know, having a baby to having a hysterectomy or anything in between, there's a lot of things we can and can't do at different times.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

There's a lot of things we can and cannot do at different times, or we can do it, but it is under duress. Like a lot of effort to make it happen. A C-section is a major surgery. And we act like it isn't because we do so many of them. And I think I honestly think the person who had the C-section is riding high off some adrenaline and look how wonderful my baby is. Any other abdominal surgery, we say don't lift anything heavier than five pounds.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Right. For weeks.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

That's how we say for yes, for several weeks. Six to eight. Yeah. Yet most babies weigh seven. The average weight of a newborn in the US is seven and a half. So we tell C-section moms, don't pick up anything heavier than your baby. A gallon of milk weighs eight pounds, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Right. I had big babies. So like my babies were 10 pounds by the time I got them home. Like that's double, double what you're supposed to do for six to eight weeks.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Exactly. So a C-section is a major surgery, and people need to recognize that. And partners don't know how bad is bad. Right. Like, yeah. I think partners get it because we kind of keep it quiet, you know, or like big time.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Right. Well, and like anything in the female health space, so much of what happens to us is underneath. And it's like it's not even, you can't even see it. So it's even like it's in our bodies. It's, you know, and so you can start to feel better, but it doesn't mean you're healed. And that was the number one thing for me when I was going through my hysterectomy. Um, and I don't know if this thing was for you, but for me, it was like I had to constantly remind myself, just because I'm not in pain doesn't mean I'm better. Doesn't mean I'm able. And it was a massive mind over, like it was a mind game for sure. But I'm like, if I don't get better, I am useless longer. And that's not helpful for anyone.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Exactly. And or you and you feel like, have I been leaning on these other people too much too long? Do they think I'm faking it or do they think that I am milking to the end? Right. And they may or may not, but it's in your mind. Yeah. You're worried. What are they thinking?

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah. Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

But we need to allow people time to heal.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

I love that. I really love that. And we need to hold ourselves accountable, like other other women in our like in our villages, especially. We need to do that for one another. And you know, I think the world is becoming a little more vulnerable. Um, we as women are being a little more vulnerable I don't think we're all the way there. We're nowhere near there yet. Um, there's no no one's given me a gold badge for achieving each step. So like do it the best you can, but with the village or with the help or with the nap or whatever it may be. Like the overextension isn't helpful for anyone.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

It's not. Well, it it it it's not definitely not helpful for the person who's over. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yes, it works out well for everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Yeah, but it's it's it's not a good idea. And I think, like you said, that we need to hold space for each other, but I think as a society, it shouldn't be a secret anymore.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

We need for everybody to know. We we live in the patriot patriarchy, we just do. Yeah, but they need to know, like keeping, oh, because we talk about it more than the generation before us. Come on, our and my grandmother, oh please, oh, it's women's issues, it's a lady thing. No, they they need to wait, it's a whisper, don't talk about it. No, they need to know. Don't ask me to cook, right? Because I I don't want to stand in front of that stove. Don't ask me to stay awake and entertain family, mine or yours, when we just had a baby. They need to know keeping it a secret has made it easier for it to go on this long. Where and sometimes, even like you said, with women, other women. I feel like it's almost like hazing. Like I had a baby, I bounced back.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

That's great. Well, good for you. Yeah, and if that's your story, amazing, it doesn't mean it's going to be mine.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

It doesn't mean it's going to be mine or anybody else's. I am happy for you if you bounced back. But I I will be honest, I am quietly thinking, did you really? There are definitely people who bounce back on a continuum, right? Totally. But there are also some people who faked it that they bounced back if that's what they thought they were supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah. And I would assume you would see a lot of that given your line of work. Like you would, I I'm sure you saw dual, like you'd see uh someone on the outside looking great, but then they, you know, you're interviewing them, asking them questions or how they're doing, and then they're just crumbling. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Yep. The the face turns red, those subtle lines in their face change, and then thinking, great, now I set it up, she's gonna cry. And it's fine. People cry a lot. And I tell people, you can cry, it's okay. So a lot of tears on the bottom. But yeah, the uh oh great part is you've been faking it and because you thought you were supposed to hold it together and you're not, you're not okay. Oh bummer. Like okay, okay. And okay, it's okay to cry. I wrote down what what what can we do?

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah, how can we help?

SPEAKER_02 29:13

How can I help? Yeah, how can I help?

SPEAKER_00 29:16

And you may not know right now, and that's okay. Yeah, but we're gonna get there. You're gonna ask, just right. Um, tell me about being a doula and a lactation consultant. I'm sure there's people listening right now that are like, oh my god, it's gonna cost me a fortune. What do I need this for? I don't need it. Is it how is it different? Like, what tell me about what a doula and a lactation consultant does and how they can be helpful.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Okay. Yeah you you did hit a thing, money. Yeah. It is not doulas and lactation consultants have to do their families too. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

It's service. Um, however, in the US, and I'm hoping in other places, little by little we're getting there where insurance companies are covering it.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

In the US, lactation coverage is included. It came with the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare or whatever you're calling it. That lactation is covered. Now, we all know insurance companies sometimes look for loopholes. Uh it is covered, absolutely covered in the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

It is covered if you have a pediatrician or octetrician who has a lactation consultant in their office, then they bill it through insurance. Okay. So that's covered. It is relatively easy now to get if you have a PPO, it's relatively easy now to get someone to come to your home so you can get in-house coverage and have PPO. That is not as easy to pull off with an HMO to have somebody come to your house. Okay. Right. Um, and we are, I don't think we're at half yet as far as the 50 states with Medicaid coverage for lactation, yes. Okay. But for do-care.

unknown 31:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:11

Medicaid is slowly picking up. I am lucky my state does cover doula care. Okay. Yes. So Medicaid is covering it first in Illinois, and private insurance is slowly picking up. And that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 31:26

Insurance.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

You never know which one is going to do it first, but if one does it, private versus Medicaid, then the other one will get on board, you know. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah, I'll have to look into what happens in Canada. I'm not quite sure because we obviously have a very different healthcare system per province, and overall in Canada, OHIP. I'm not sure what OHIP covers. I'll do a little digging, but uh it's so a lactation. So a doula and a lactation consultant. So what what do you do for me as a doula? What is what is your role?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Oh, a doula is a birth doula is a professional labor support person.

unknown 32:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Um, and sometimes people ask the difference between a doula and a midwife. And I think a better question difference between a midwife and an obstetrician. Um that's my opinion. Well, because midwives deliver babies, obstetricians deliver babies. Doula's are not clinical, they offer my my elevator pitch. Yeah. No, I want to hear it. Yep. Doula's offer physical support. So that is hand holding, back rubbing, helping you change positions, bring you water. Um, doulas offer emotional support. That is your cheerleader. You've got this, you can do it. Talking to you about your first plan, how you what you want this to look like. Okay. And medical advocacy, which is the bigger deal if your birth is in the hospital versus if you are having a birth center birth or home birth. But medical advocacy is a big thing. In the US, the overwhelming majority of births are in the hospital. So that is the team, medical team, nursing team came in. They are talking way too fast. They are using words that you don't recognize. They are telling you what they're going to do, which may or may not match what you want it to happen in your birth. Your doula helps you find your voice. Your doula does not speak for you. It's not my birth, it's not my birth. It's not my birth. I have to tell myself that it's not my birth. It's not my birth. To know what you wanted, and to be able to say, Do you want a few minutes to talk about it? And that's my thing. Just take a few minutes to talk about it. Right. And statistically, they found even if the doula doesn't say a word, just the doula being there improves outcomes. They actually did a study where they just put a person in the room who did not talk. Did not talk. Don't say anything, but just their presence improved outcomes. Why? Is it because the medical team saw them there? Is it because the person felt more confident? Because they knew they were there. Don't know that yet, but that's beautiful. Right. Improve the outcome. So that's what a birth doa does. Okay. A postpartum doula is different. Some postpartum doulas are virtual, some are actually coming to your home. Probably more come to your home.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

That person helps you with some of those physical things that you need help with after you had a baby. They are not a maid. They are not a nanny. Most of them don't take care of your other children, but they help with the person who just delivered the baby and the new baby. And that's kind of all over the board. Like maybe that person is folding baby laundry. Not the laundry for everybody else. Maybe they'll fold baby. Maybe they are sterilizing pump pieces or sterilizing bottles if you are formula feeding. Maybe they make the next batch of formula. Maybe they bring the food in. You sit right there in that chair, and I'll refill your water bottle and bring you some food. Yeah. They are that extra arm, that extra hand in your house.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

After you do. And sometimes it's just talk.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

Like I ask people, how are you feeling? I want to know emotionally and physically. And I am, it's not my job to be clinical, right? So again, I have to in my mind which hat I'm wearing today.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

But I don't, I don't throw that information out of the window. Right. So I'll ask questions and then I'll say, I think you should probably give your provider a call.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

That's that's that's a lot. I think you should call your provider or how are you feeling about that? I don't that's something that I would encourage you to call call your provider for. Um, even medical things, you know, that blood pressure is too high. I wouldn't tell somebody to change their medicine. Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

And if because of my background, I mean you would know that would need to happen, but that's not the advice you can offer at the time.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

You need to call your provider. They might be looking at giving you, they might look at giving you a different medication. Right.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Or maybe you want to ask your provider about this medication. Right.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Or sometimes I catch something that I've caught it as a lactation consultant and as a doula that something over here doesn't, something's not right. I think she's living into postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety. I can't make that diagnosis. I can't even because of HIPAA, right? It's only so far I can go. But I have called an office and said, I know you can't talk to me about her because of HIPAA. Right. But I can talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

I'm letting you know I am like Tation Consultant dual or whatever. I saw her. I think something's going on. Right. She could probably be pruned for a postpartum depression. And again, I know you can't talk to me about her. I'm just dropping that little nugget. Yeah. Which is so important.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

You're just another, you're another set of set of eyes at a time and an educated pair of eyes, right? Like it's the biggest job we all get with zero. Sure, you can read the book, but until you have the human in your hand or arms, you don't know you your your human could be a sleeper, a non-sleeper, an eater, a non-eater, a crier, a non-crier. Like no book really it gives you some insight, but it doesn't give you like the when you come home, do that, because none of it works that way.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Well, nobody fits.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

Nobody fits in the textbook. No. Like we have good ideas. We have an idea of what the need to look like. Um, we can make a let's call it a plan, a map. Right. I I pre I prefer a map. Yeah, I like maps. You know where you go. Ideally, you're going to go straight, it's a straight line. Right. Probably gonna be fine source. Right. And that's that's just how we live with it. That's how we deal with it. As a lactation consultant, in my dream world, every baby would get their own mother's milk. Okay, that's in fantasy fantasy island. Right. And so what can we do? I am not the lactation consultant that is mean to people if they choose not to breastfeed. And I do know people who are no, you are going to make the decision for your family, right, and I am going to do what I can to help you reach your goal. Right. Now, I will educate you that I'm gonna go 99, probably 99.5, maybe a little higher. That that baby's own mother's milk is the best choice for that baby. Right. Breastfeeding is almost hands down the best choice for the baby. It's not always the best choice for the family. Right. Well said. We have to do what's working for everybody. If mom is going to slip into postpartum depression, breastfeeding, then she's no good in any other setting. And so no, that's not maybe that's not the best thing for the family. Right. So we have to work with we have to work with what we have.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I love that. I love that. And you're so full of so much information, and I and I love this. And jumping into the menopausal space, because we're just gonna go from birth to menopause here, you yourself um have also experienced um hysterectomy. And as a and as a nurse and a woman in the space, you didn't necessarily take care of yourself the immediate moment that you should have, is what I learned. And I'm gonna throw back at you, but you're gonna share your experience.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yes, throw that at me. So I life with my seven-day periods that I've had probably since high school. It's always been seven days, and the bleeding just got heavier and heavier. At towards the end of my childbearing years, the bleeding got turns out I had pretty good sized fibroids. I think uh last measured, maybe my provider said it was maybe a 14 size of a 14-15-week pregnancy. Okay. So that's how big my uterus was. Yeah. But she also told me you can have hysterectomy, or you can ride this out because of your age, you might hit menopause and this just be done. Okay. I didn't want to take the time off work. I didn't want to, I didn't want to give up my summer. I was teaching. I did not want to give up my summer in recovery. And it's tough to just be away from your class when you teach. So I'm just gonna ride that out. Well, COVID came along. Nobody's going outside anyway. Sure. Sure, I can do it now.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

So you needed a worldwide pandemic to take care of yourself appropriately. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Probably. I didn't, you know, I didn't really want surgery, not that much.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

No, and it's it's massive. It's a big deal. Like it's a big deal. And I didn't want to take time off work. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Um, now it it was FOMO. Like, I don't want to take off the summer, but everybody's gonna be stuck in the house. Okay, I'll do it. So I have my surgery off. I guess Mac kind of to the earlier end.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

It was summer of 2020, okay, is when I have the surgery, and it turned into a full open abdomen, which I was really hoping for laparoscopic, but my uterus was I don't want to say it was too big.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

I think she said just the way it was shaped, it turned kind of the weight of the fibroid had made it turn a little bit, and she couldn't reach everything confidently and be confident that she wasn't going to nick artery. It was not worth me bleeding out. No, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:37

No.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

It is the first thing I asked when I open my eyes, though.

unknown 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

I I don't even know if, but yeah, it's the first thing I ask when I open my eyes.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Because it's the scar size thing, right? You're like, oh my god, where, what, what has just happened? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

A couple little holes, or do I have a big scar? Oh, I have a big scar.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 42:54

I want it. Um, and so then, you know, I'm moving along. And actually, I have lost a little bit of weight. I've managed to gain weight because menopause is just evil when it comes to managing. Um, so then, you know, I'm moving along. She did not, I had not gone into menopause yet. So she did not take my ovaries. Uterus left me ovaries, so I would be slammed into menopause. I could still feel middle smirts, which is the term used for the pain that some people feel when they ovulate. So I was still ovulating easy a year and a half, almost two years after my surgery. Okay. And that didn't surprise me either.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

My mother, my youngest brother was born when my mother was either 46 or 47, and she was well into her 50s. I remember he was in kindergarten and she still had menstrual products in her house.

SPEAKER_03 43:47

Wow. So I wasn't expecting early menopause.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Right. So, you know, I'm floating along, and I take, I spend some time with my sister. She's in town. I take her to the airport. Days later, she calls and says, uh, tested positive for COVID. I'm like, oh, that's a bummer. Okay. The very next day, I'm hot. I am hot. I am hot all day. I've taken my temperature probably four times in one finger. But I'm hot. Right.

SPEAKER_03 44:18

First, I keep taking my temperature. I call in sick to work because I must have COVID. It must be COVID. Right. Right. I go to get tested. And at that time, I want to say that the tests were not instant. Right. So I had to wait.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

So I get exhausted. I'm home. And then I'm not even sure what made it hit me.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Probably just on the phone with one of my friends complaining that she made it 11 months and then got a period. Right. So it's still not. And then it hit me.

SPEAKER_02 44:47

I don't have a fever. That was a hot flash. In my defense. In my defense.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

I said it was a hot wave. It wasn't a flash. It hung around.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

And like they are going to take my nurse card away from me. It's a women's health nurse card. And that's put me out. Like, you nope, you you have to go. You don't. You don't deserve to have this card. Um since then, I have continued to have waves on and off. And you know, we're all different. My friends, I see them sweating, sweating. They dress in layers. I never feel like I'm sweating. I never feel like I need to be in layer.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

I feel like I need a really cold glass of water. Right. I just feel like I'm suddenly really hot and dry. So I drink I don't carry a fan. So many of my friends have manual fans and powered ones. I don't carry a fan. Um, but I I will need a glass of water. I didn't get him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Well, I think it's I think it's it's it's reassuring to those who are listening to who are like, oh, like even educated people in the field still, like we're still, it's not our first go-to is perimenopause, menopause, our own health. Like you've been in the field your whole life. And again, not that you're supposed to have every answer to everything. You weren't a menopausal consultant, you were a lactation consultant. Like, but it's amazing still how we don't think of our physiologicalness. I don't even think it's a word, first. We think it's everything else but what should be happening, because we're not actually educated enough yet.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Not, we are not. My I mean, my friends and I, we tal we talk about it. We're okay. And I talked about the generation before us, not as much. My mother's actually pretty open about that kind of thing. Like but my mother's menopause was I've never seen my mother pull out a fan. She didn't some of her sister. I have an aunt that has had a fan in her hand since she was 35. Had an early history of me. Yeah. But I didn't see it with my mother. My friends, yep. My friends complaining about menopause symptoms, but still when it hit me, yeah, I was like, oh, oh, oh, that's that's what that is. That's what that is. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

You know, I walk I'm I would I didn't keep that I had a hysterectomy a secret. It's like I do not miss bleeding every month. I'm I'm not I I haven't looked back. I have no no regrets about doing because that once a month, where are we? Can I go outside and am I gonna be embarrassed today?

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah, because it's real, especially when you're bleeding so heavily, like that was something that was happening to you, right? And I mean, that was something that was happening to me. And I'd had it basically since the time I was 14 because I had endo right from the get-go, because that's how it works, and you don't just catch it. Um that's what they thought or that's what they tell you. Um and and that is like like that's life-changing if you have to think about how to get dressed or not dressed, or can I leave the bathroom? You know, am I throwing diapers on versus a menstrual pad? Like it's like that is those are things we have to think about as women, and especially as we're, you know, again, not everybody's gonna have horrible menopause, and everybody's gonna have horrible perimenopause. Not everyone's gonna breed bleed a ton, but for those that do, it's life altering at times.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

It is. Well, in my state, they have started putting menstrual products in schools at no charge, which is so freaking great. What? Because again, girls in school, like, what if you really don't have the money to buy this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Or know that you're going to. Like, if you're in grade school, I mean, depending on your weight and where you are in life and what nationality you are, and those types of things, you might be an earlier, you might be later. You could be 12, 11 years old and sitting in grade six and get your period. And it's not like you threw a bunch of tampons in your backpack before you left for school. Like it's just exactly it's almost like it's so funny because as I've started to interview people and really dig into this space, and it's kind of like in school and at work, there's this, you know, we've got HR and we've got all the things, but there's like one thing, and you can't, I mean, you even got rid of school nurses. Like, I remember we used to have a school nurse in the in the school every day when I was a kid because you knew how to like get yourself there for a nap if you needed to, right? But like exactly, and so where is that support for women and girls that are are naturally going to have a health concern monthly at some point, whether it just be I leaked through my pad, am I I forgot my tampon at home, I have a cramp, to like the severity of like the kids who are dealing with endo that haven't been diagnosed yet and things like that. It's like there's a spot missing in our school programs and in our workplaces that are not there to support this like massive monthly thing that happens for us physically, guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

It's not, and just little things like what if I don't have a pad or tampon, or what if I don't have the money for a pad or tampon? I still keep pads in the bathroom at my house. So do I, if you just opened my sink because you weren't brave enough to ask me, if you just open a cabinet, you'll see them. Just because you know that sometimes you've been out and you're like, and maybe you feel shy to ask. Yeah. So I just leave them there just in case they're like for a long time. I had them in my bag. I I don't feel in my bag anymore. But I was I have been in the airport where it was not a place that they were free. And a woman asked me, Do you have she actually said, Do you have a quarter? Right. I don't, but I have a pan or a tampon, which I may have had a tampon and a disc. Right. But I got the rope. She's like, sure, I am.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Yeah, a hundred percent. Take them all. Yeah, and it's I keep them in my house as well. And I'm, you know, all my friends are in the like I've, you know, that whole I didn't have a period for 10 months, and holy shit, I just cut it on the 350th day. Um, but also my boys have friends and my friends have daughters, and I like to me, it's just something I keep in all of our bathroom drawers. And if someone needed to throw 10 in their pocket, great. Like I will keep refilling those tampons and pads for whoever needs them in our home at any time. And it's interesting as I've spoken to a bunch of young women as we're talking about the event and what we're doing in this podcast and such. And the the conviction of the younger generation who is like, I don't like it's shouldn't even be an option. Like it's not even a conversation. It's like get those tat tampons and pads in our bathrooms right now. Like they, it's not even like, oh, it should be a vending machine. It's like, no, no, these things should be free for us.

SPEAKER_02 52:26

Right. Toilet paper is the not here. I have I have track. I've been on vacation where you had to pay for toilet paper. Yes, but we don't pay for toilet paper in a public bathroom. There are places that have condoms for free. Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Like why would we have to pay for right? And a condom is a choice. Having a period is not a choice. And I mean, I I I love condoms. We hand them out for all the reasons, do the things, safety, make it normal, all those things. But that's a choice most most of the time. Um when you have your period, that is not a choice. You don't get exempt from that. It it it just it just showed up. Yeah. And always at the inopportune time. Well, Rashida, I could speak to you forever and ever and ever. You are a wealth of knowledge, you are a beautiful human. Thank you for sharing your stories and of your own and some great advice for some of the women on the that are gonna listen for sure. Um, even though sometimes we think it's common sense to ourselves, you know, there's always that like light bulb moment that, you know, I'll even like remember that we need to be the village that takes care of, you know, and and if nothing else, don't douche.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

We need don't douche. And don't be don't be surprised when you feel the rage that comes along with the hotlesh.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

That's a true story. It's like your hop and just shhody dog. Exactly. Exactly. Well, thank you so much for being here. Do you have one last thing piece of advice? Do it, be it something.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Yeah, I feel on the spot. Um, probably what is just now the theme in general take up space. Don't be shy, don't feel like you have to be quiet. Those days are gone. Going. We are yes, well, they're not gone. The have to is gone.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Yes, just what we need to do is catch up. Right. But talk, but like talk to your doctor, like you're like in that, it's like when you're whether whatever state, like talk to your doctor, talk to your nurse, don't keep it inside.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

Hey, what is going on with you? Maybe, maybe somebody has an answer, they can get some help. And you can't talk to your mom, whether it's because you don't have her anymore, that's just not her personality. Right. Tell somebody, tell your friend, tell your nurse, tell your doctor, tell somebody what symptoms you are experiencing so that you can get some help.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Yeah, because if it doesn't feel normal, it's not normal.

SPEAKER_02 55:18

Well, if it is your body, whether it's on one of those a lot, if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Make a phone call. I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me.