Ep. 14: Shayne's story & what C-sections, massage, and money have in common

Shayne Henderson is a Registered Massage Therapist from Collingwood, Ontario, who spent 25 years helping women recover from trauma—especially postpartum and C-section trauma. She's also a licensed finance broker in the insurance sector. What connects these two seemingly different careers? Her belief that everything—our bodies, our nervous systems, our relationship with money—is interconnected. She didn't plan to become a finance broker. A health scare forced her to get her own financial house in order, and what she discovered was that women are ghosting their finances the same way they're ghosting their bodies. In this episode, Shayne talks about informed consent in healthcare, why women need to start investing early, and how your nervous system shows up in every conversation you're avoiding.

Key Components

• How a 25-year massage therapy career revealed what postpartum care should look like, and what most women never get.
• How a health scare that made her realize she needed to plan for her family's future—and caused her to become a licensed finance broker.
• The nervous system connection nobody's talking about: How our bodies react to money conversations the same way they react to healthcare decisions.
• Starting with $50 a month—why the shame about not having "enough" is keeping women from securing their futures.

"Ninety percent of us will be in charge of the family finances at some point in our life. Right? Because our partner passes away, we're single, whatever it is, and so many of us don't have the tools or the knowledge to manage anything."

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🤘 Podcast produced by Binge-Worthy Studio

For informational and entertainment purposes only — not medical advice. We're here to get loud, not to play doctor.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Today's guest is someone who followed me to the Blue Mountains, and I mean that literally. Shane Henderson is a massage and movement therapist with over 25 years of experience, a licensed financial advisor, a homeschooling mom to two girls, and one of those women who makes you feel like everything she does comes from a place of genuine deep care. Shane has spent her career working with women's bodies, specifically in pelvic floor and core health, postpartum recovery, and C-section remediation. She knows things about what happens inside your body after a C-section that your OB absolutely did not tell you when they handed your baby, handed you your baby, and sent you home. And then because she is a whole person, we get into money. Shane had a health scare that changed everything. She was diagnosed with idiopathic subglottic stenosis, a narrowing of the trachea that had gone undiagnosed for years and left her struggling to breathe through every single moment of her life. She found her way through it and came out the other side with a financial license and a mission to help women stop ghosting their own futures. This is the Down There Aware podcast. I am Amy Milne, and it's time to get loud. Perfect. So let's roll. Um, Shane, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited to have you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Well, I am a longtime love of Amy Milne. I'm flashing. Like in so many different crossovers, that yeah, this is just such a pleasure to be here and can join like this and to be collaborating in this way.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Yeah, I love it. So, Shane, you and I met, or like, I don't know, do you see meet when you meet online and you haven't really met in person? I feel like that's what the kids say these days, right? Like, this is my friend from like the internet. Um, so I do that a lot. Right. So we were introduced to each other through a mutual coach, um, our Hina Khan. And I think that's I mean, that's where our relationship started. And then we would, I think we kind of like followed along each other because we were in the group. And then yeah, I think like you shared before we jumped on that maybe you stalked me. Like, I'm usually the stalker in my relationships, so it's kind of nice to know I'm not alone.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

It was actually you went on the 6 a.m. call and she was talking to you about your big moves because it was all about making big moves, and you were talking about how like you went to Collingwood and this like woman was like, No, this is your house. And you would like felt like this is my house, and she's like, I've saved this for you kind of thing. Like it was like this total like moment, and I was like, Oh, you can move out of the city and love your life, right? Because I was a Trentonian and you'd never move out of the city. Um, and yeah, and then I just kept following your story, and so when we because I've been looking at moving here, and then I was like, I'm just gonna reach out to Amy and see what it looks like. And you're like, it's amazing. And I think you live on a car, Michael, too, right? I do, yep, and I do too in a different area, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So it's like super stalkers, like we had I like super stalkers. I think the best relationships come out of stocking, yes, not in any other context other than ours. Yes. Um, because they're I think it's like it's a mutual, it's a known stocking. Let's go with that before this gets really weird. Um but it's equal. It is equal, it's known. Um, well, it's funny because when we first moved here and we do live on a Carmichael, we had to be very clear that because everybody thinks I live in Collingwood, and I'm like, no, I live in the Blue Mountains, and people are like, come on, Amy, the area is called Collingwood. It's like, no, because there's an exact address of mine in Collingwood. And so we've been we tell people we move to Blue because that's technically what our address is. Because in the beginning, when we told people where they lived and they didn't pay attention, they showed up at X number on Carmichael in Collingwood.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Oh my God, that's hilarious. It's too bad we don't live with the exact same number because then I could really manage that for you.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

That could be a lot of fun. Like, here's your welcome cocktail, and now you're going to Blue Mountain. And here's the directions. Yeah. So you followed me to Collingwood, and um, we're living our best lives here. And then through that, at the same time, we are co-authors. You were a lead author in a book that a best-selling book that we are both writers in.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yes. So that was a big moving here. We're talking to my friend Kirstie who moved to Prince Edward County. It seemed like people moved up here or moved there. Agreed. And there was no other options. It was like those two. So we were like, let's like write a book about this because there were a bunch of us going through the same transition. And I was like, I know who I want in this book. Yeah. I want my trailblazer in the book. So I reached out and you were like, all aboard. And it was uh yeah, interesting. Knowing so much more about you from that context and reading your chapter was just like, oh, this woman is like a little bit of everything, a little bit of magic.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

You're so sweet. Um, thank you for that. It was it writing the book, I loved it. It was a it was an interesting experience in so many ways. And I would say the only thing I'm bummed out about is that we were at the end of COVID with our book. And so we didn't, you know, I watched a few other books come out after ours and they got to be together and they got to have the book, you know, like the event person in me is like, you know, damn, we didn't get to like do it up.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

It was kind of uh a bit of a like it was but we had amazing, beautiful relationship as a group. Like I loved our chats and it just I felt we had this really neat community that wasn't just about the big launch either. Like we were there supporting each other in a really unique time as well.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Yeah, definitely. Because a lot of us had similar stories related to that time, right? And we're we're all going through things, so it was a beautiful way to kind of just like ground in. Very much and just really also kind of feel, I think, more confident in your choices, right? Like there was no second guessing when you're writing the chapter. You're like, oh my gosh, like this is totally so much sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah, and we'd all we'd all moved around a time, like, because I know for me, like we moved a year and a bit before the world shut down. And so I'm now not only in a community that I know no one, the people like yourself who I started to get to know, we couldn't even hang out. Like, you couldn't even start to build those in-person personal relationships at the time, and were like new in all of our communities, and which we're all living in and writing about. Like it was a wild time. It's true, it was wild. But we did get together and sign our books together at your office, and that was pretty cool. That was that was fun. So you have an office, and so tell people who you are.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

So you are Shane, and what do you do? I'm Shane. I'm a massage and movement therapist. I've been that for over 25 years. I grew up in a healthcare family. I went to school for kinesiology when I got kind of frustrated with like giving people guidance on what they needed to do. I was like, nope, I need to get hands-on too. So I went to school for massage so I could do both. Okay. Um, be hands-on and then be like, here's your homework. A little bit of both. And then through that, you know, I'm also a woman who, you know, in that time got pregnant, had some losses, had some pelvic floor issues. At that time, there were, I did research and there were three pelvic floor um physios that I could find in Toronto. What? Like it was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

So I went for pelvic floor physio, figured out like one day I was coming in the house and I had my daughter who was like not even a year, and I tripped. So, of course, as a mom, you go like full, like, I'll take all the brunt. And I happened to have a visit with my pelvic floor physio the next day. And she was like, What happened to you? And I was like, Oh, I fell yesterday. And she's like, Because like all the work we've been doing, like it's really you've got a lot of tension. And that's when a light bulb was like, Why are we just spot treating? Like, why is like obviously I didn't fall on my vagina, like fell on my shoulder and then my body, and then so I'm like, so then I went back and did an extensive training into movement related to core and pelvic floor health, recognizing that it is a full kind of body um connection. Like everything is connected, right? You can't just spot treat, and that goes for everything. It like kind of opened up my whole practice. They're like, yes, you have shoulder pain, but that doesn't just mean it's a shoulder, it doesn't mean it started there, right? Um, so yeah, and I was happily doing that. Moved here, opened my own little practice, um, have two girls, they're thriving here. And then I started having a health issue. So I've always had this different breathing pattern when I would exercise. So I've been diagnosed with asthma several times throughout my life, and I'm like, I'm like, I never used a puffer because I'm like, it doesn't do anything. It's not the puffer, like I don't know what it is. And then the lovely shutdown of light in the world happened, and I had to wear masks to treat. So I'm convinced that like the microfibers in the masks added irritation to a situation that was already like I already think I had a narrower trachea. So the trachea is a breathing tube that um exchanges air from the outside brow to your legs, and it's actually like cartilage, so it stays open, but I think mine was probably a little bit narrower, and then you add these like little fibers that are protection potentially getting inhaled, right? Creating irritation. You can also look at the lens of not being able to use your voice during that time, and then there's shutdown in that regard too, right? So I had a health issue that just continued to decline. Right. And again, I, you know, asthma's not the diagnosis.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Right. And you're being treated for something that like you're not being listened to, and no one's helping you, and it's actually getting worse. Yes, yes. And so breathing is kind of important.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It's a pretty big one. It's pretty big on the on the on the list of top five. It was probably one pretty much. Could be up there. Um, but then I um but also it was confusing because it felt like a lung thing, right? Not being able to get enough breath in. So I'm like, what's going on with my lungs? Like, you know, I did all these different practitioners, you know, acupuncture. I was doing like those um like masks to try and open up the lungs. I actually found sound healing very helpful. Interesting. So I was doing sound healing with Justine from Lotus Sound, and then she did a combo restorative yoga with my friend Amy. So I did that for about a year and I did individual sessions with Justine. And doing that, I would feel like things would open. So I too thought it was more my lungs, right? Like because a session with Justine, and all of a sudden I was like, oh, I'm getting expansion through like my rib cage, and I feel like I can take a bigger breath. And then it continued to decline. And I was like, this is getting crazy. And at that point, like it was so I can't even express how bad it was. Every single breath I took, I thought about. Like, imagine every time you breathe, it's just in the back of your mind. I would be treating, I'd be like, you have to shallow breathe so people don't hear you. Also, it's a respiratory thing started during a respiratory shutdown. So you're also like, people are gonna think I'm sick. I would have to clear my throat. I'm like, I'm not sick. I just, you know, like um, and I ended up sounding like Darth Vader. Like it was crazy. I couldn't walk, I couldn't do anything with my kids. Like it was like, we should go, like, go for a hike up Blue Mountain. And I'd be like, I I can't. Like, I just physically cannot do it because I can only walk on flat ground. Like, wow, and I was starting to realize like there's no help here. This is where oh I'll try not to get too emotional, but there's no one help, like I don't know what to do. Right. And one of my friends was finally like we went for a walk, and she was like, You've gotten really bad and you need to go to the doctor and see like take another kick at the can. Right. So I went to the after hours clinic because at that point we didn't have a doctor, right? Right. Because a whole other can of worms were used right now. Um so I went to the walk-in attached to the hospital, the after hours, and immediately like the admin, this is part of the problem too, right? Is because people treated me like I was like, infectious control needs to be called. Because it was very audible, right? And so like the nurse was like, You need to get a mask on. And I'm like, I can't even breathe. Right, I can't breathe through that. So no, I will not be. And then I went in to see the doctor, and he was like, I have no idea what's wrong with you. And I was like, Oh, this is this is fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 15:17

Right, but it honest, honest answer, at least like I I don't want to take away from that moment for you, Shane, because that's devastating to like be on what feels like your last breath every time you breathe, and to have someone say, I don't know. However, to have someone say that versus like, oh, I think it's this, and like you get dismissed.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, I totally agree. I was like, like, I was like, oh God, he doesn't know. But at the same time, I'm like, okay, he's being honest. Like, that is nice. So you're not like, here, let's try this inhaler. And so he was like, here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna call it merge. I'm gonna tell them I think you have a collapsed lung. And when you go in there, I want you to play it up. And I'm like, play it up.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Like you're like, I really can't really breathe.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

And I literally I walked into a merge, and the woman in triage was like, Are you Shane? And I'm like, Yep. And she's like, come in through triage, took me through the back. There was a whole like um section ready. They're like, lie down. They had respiratory, but they had like a whole team of people like hooking me up, and I was like, Okay, this is amazing, but crazy. Scary, scary, but not like they were like, yeah, it was like calm. I'm very calm in those scenarios, so I was just like, Oh, this is like really, this is amazing. And they're like, There's nothing like your heart, like everything's fine. And I'm like, I know, I just can't breathe. Like, I know this. So they sent me for CT. And then they were like, There's nothing we can do for you again, because I'd already said, like, puffers don't nothing works, like puffers aren't gonna work, steroids aren't gonna work, and they really had no clue. Like, not which I kind of I'm sh kind of shocked that like as a respirologist, right? Like the respiratory, I guess she was not like a doctor, she was like a PT maybe, but I'm like, you know, like you never come across these like weird things where you're like, I've heard of this. Right. This was written about in mind, yeah. Um and so they're like, so they sent me to a specialist I who's in Barrie. And when I went to see her, she's like, I know what this is. This is like the most common thing I treat. And I'm like, what? And she's like, Oh yeah, yeah, you have it's called idiopathic subglottic stenosis. So idiopathic means no known cause. Subglottic just means it's below, we have a flap that covers the the trachea, so we don't swallow food down there, right? So it goes down the right tube. And then stenosis just means narrowing, so it's a narrowing of the trachea. Scar tissue builds around it, and that makes it hard to breathe. And scar tissue isn't very um, it's not pliable.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Like, I mean, it's the same thing we like those of us who've had endo and any of the like you know, we go from throat to blow, is like the scar tissue, like it's nasty stuff, like it it impedes movement.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Totally. Yeah, yeah. Pliable is the word I was trying to, that's awesome. Yeah, teamwork, it's not so teamwork. Um yeah, so then I had to go to Toronto to have this procedure done. I mean, in the hilariousness, because she was like, you know, it's like a 20-second procedure, and we stretch the scar tissue to break it up. And I was like, listen, I had been practicing and I can hold my breath for 20 seconds. And she's like, No, we put you under. I was like, Oh, that makes so much sense. Oh my god, that's the right thing. Right? I'm like, of course, because there's no way they're doing that, and I'm conscious, right? There's no way. But I'm glad you thought so. Right? Well, because I also don't feel confident and comfortable in the system like that. Right. Right. So I'm like, I can I got this, I can hold it 20 seconds, we're good. And she's like, no, no. So that's the issue.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

In doing more research, even I mean, she's a great physician, but in doing more research, I've learned that this condition is very common in women age 40 to 50. Hmm. Which I was like, huh. Might there be a connection, a hormone attachment to it? A hormone piece. But there's no research on that. As well, that's weird.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Right? It's shocking. No research on us? Like, come on, the seven cents on every dollar that's raised. Like, what do you mean we don't have we don't know why you can't breathe?

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Nothing. No. No research, which is, you know, so now I have done my own research into things. I actually have a tool I use for scar work because one of my passions with massage is helping with c-section remediation and helping because you know, you leave the hospital with the baby and they're like, you're good to go. And I'm like, scar tissue is actually a big fucking deal in the body, like a big one. And many women are detached. Like I've treated women who 20, 30 years after their c-section, have never ever touched that part of their belly again.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Wow. I just got like full body. Really?

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Why? It's heartbreaking because it's just the it's just too emotional. It's too much of a, they don't want to think about it. They think it's like gross or ugly or all of these things that they're just like ashamed of that area and they just don't come in contact with it.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Wow. Is it is it tied to they didn't, I mean, I guess everyone is different, but is it like for those women who didn't want a c-section, they wanted natural, but they had to go in, or someone forced them to have a c-section, or is it just general? There's no one specific type?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

With the older women, it was, I don't think they even knew any better. Like it was just like, you know, they were in their 60s or 70s, like we're going back a while now. Um, and they were just like, I I didn't know that I should. And it was just, you know, it just felt like unattractive and like a shame. Um, where they just didn't feel connected to that part of their body anymore. And there's like numbness that can happen, right? So then you don't know what to do with that, and you just ignore it. Like people ignore a lot of crazy things overall, right? Um, but I think a lot of women now, even in trying to like, you know, get women to be more hands on. It's just they're they're not comfortable or confident with it. Um, because I I will treat it, but then I'll also instruct in like, you know, from home care, you want to do stuff. So again, it becomes more pliable. Um, there's also the idea that it looks fine from the outside. So they're like, it's great. But I'm like, but they also sutured the uterus, and there's also other tissues that are like compounded and can get stuck. And that stuckness can impact mobility, it can cause back pain, it can cause shoulder pain, it can cause like infertility issues. Like there's so many things that can ripple from the stuckness of those layers. But when it looks fine from the outside, they're like, Yeah, I'm good. My doc says I'm good. I've all like everything's recovered. And I'm like, yes, and maybe not. Right. And it's like there's no harm in you mobilizing it and like treating it and just staying on top of like how it feels or how it's shifting. Because some parts can feel great and some parts can feel really stuck down.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Interesting. Like I just I well, and I think I mean I happen to be a I had a lot of I've had a lot of surgeries in my life. And so I was very not, I was not attuned to how much help I could get when it comes to like pelvic health and all the things that could have benefited me because nobody shared that, and nor, you know, nor did I think to even look, to be honest, because you're just like you listen to the doctors and you go on your way, and you kind of just like this is where I'm at. And I think of you know, for so many women, I have so many friends who had C-sections, and that could possibly be the first and only time they've ever had major surgery or even had surgery. And you're pretty much like to your point, you're you have this major surgery, and then you're handed a baby, like major, and you're handed a baby, and you go home. And you may not have even, you might have like I listened to one of my most um favorite podcasts was The Retrievals. I don't know if you've listened to it, but the retrievals season one was about um was all about women's pain in terms of they were when they were retrieving eggs and women were complaining about the pain they were in, and the doctors were like, no, no, no, we're putting fentanyl in you, and they were putting more and more fentanyl. And then the long the short of the long story is there was a nurse that was stealing the fentanyl. So these bags actually didn't have fentanyl in them. So these women were actually in pain. And then season two, and if you haven't listened, it might be of interest, is all about women in C-sections, and it's so good, and it it's disturbing, but good at the same time. Because it talks about how, you know, ain't like we don't put women under, we like numb them. But yet, if you're having certain like when I had my hysterectomy, I was fully under. And but yet we all of a sudden think women want their bodies open and their babies put on them. Like, isn't the first time you meet your baby like someone's making that decision versus like, isn't the first time you meet your baby when you meet your baby, regardless of your body being open or closed?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. I mean, as someone who's had a c-section, I actually, and again, I advocated for the natural or a gentle c-section, which was not done at the hospital ever before. But my midwife was like, I will talk to the OB, they're on board, you're good. And that it was just a series of things like delayed cord clamping, immediate skin to skin. Um, you know, sometimes they will have like a clear sheet between you and the surgery. Sometimes they'll drop the sheet. Um, there's a whole bunch of other things that can be incorporated. But I think that I don't know that I would have wanted to be out for it.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

That's fair. And I think part of, and that's very fair. I mean, and I think that's where we have choice. I think a lot of what they were talking about was like women who were in the midst of this surgery saying, I can feel every piece, like I can feel the knife, I can feel the clamp, I can do and them asking and not being believed. Um yeah, because you are only numbed.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

So I could feel like I guess my baby was a little stuck. And so I could feel like I was like, what is happening? Like I could feel this, like almost like she was doing CPR on like the left side of my ribs to try and move the baby down. So you can feel things again. I'm I'm also maybe an anomaly because I don't, I'm not bothered by those things because I'd rather be with it aware happening. Um, but yeah, I could see how, like now going in hindsight, I could see how that would be uncomfortable for a woman to be feeling those things if that's not the choice she wanted. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

And especially like you made a conscious choice for yourself of like you wanted this experience, and you had someone who listened to you and helped you with that. If you're the woman who just was like thrown on a gurney and told this is what was happening, and or if it was in an emergency situation, and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, and and I think part of the not so much part of the argument, but part of the conversation was about again, we're not offering choice, right? Like, does every woman want that experience? You know, you didn't want to be put out, but maybe someone would, you know. So it's like there's no choice. There's just this study that was done in the 50s that says we can't put women out, even though it's one of the most major surgeries anyone will ever go through because of the amount of stuff they're opening up in your body. So it's just it's again, it's it's informed by old studies. It's not informed by their choices. Like, I don't, I didn't know you could ask for a lighter option C section. Like, I didn't know you could do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah, because it wasn't really a thing. Right. Like it was, I had to research it. It wasn't known. My nobody like often knows about it. I will say though, um, I think part of the problem is having improper birth plans. I don't know how things have changed in the system, but there should be a birth plan from start to finish so that but a lot of women also don't want to think about having a C-section when they're pregnant. And so it's not part of a birth plan as to how that might go if you're not gonna be open to the idea that it might happen. And I appreciate both schools of thought. I appreciate you don't want to think about it because I know a lot of people who home birth, I home birthed the first one, not the second one. Um, a lot of women who free birth completely outside of the system. And so if you're not putting some sort of like contingency plan in place, then when that time comes, if it's emergency, uh, you don't really have options because they're like they're life and there to save life, they're not there to be like, let's have a conversation, yes. But to your point, when I in my beautiful choice of a gentle cesarean, while I am open on the table, she asks me if I wanted to get my tubes tied.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

How is that important to ask a woman that?

SPEAKER_01 30:00

This and I was like, um, no, like what why are you even asking me this? And she's like, Well, if you know you're done at two, we like you're already here, we could just do it now. And I was like, What this is not informed consent, like this is no, yeah, so you know, someone else might be like, you know what, we did talk about just having two, and this makes sense, so sure, but that's not like informed, that's not really like you need to have all the things in place, and you need to not have all of your fucking hormones and all your body open, like to make that decision at that moment, like, yeah, and like so that was shocking. What the fuck? Yeah, I was like, um, how about we just do what we're here for?

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, let's not add extras. Like, I didn't add that on. It wasn't like I checked it in the like, would you like fries with that? Like, that's just not what happened. Right? What the actual fuck?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, so that was shocking. I remember that now. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

No, no, I'm good. I'm good. How about you just sew me up? Um yeah, it's interesting because like I, if I I mean, I my whole thing when I was pregnant, I was like, I just want these fuckers to sleep. So I was like, I didn't actually like I didn't have this, I just wanted the babies out, and not in this like horrific way, but I was just like, someone's going to help me do this. And so I trust in what's going to happen, right or wrong. That was kind of my thing. And so, but little did I know, I developed pre-eclimpsia. And so then I'm pretty much put in the hospital, and it's like your baby, he was two and a half, like two and a half, three weeks early, but like my blood pressure was off the charts. I was gaining two and a half pounds of water a day. Like it was like this baby's gotta come because you are not well. And we had had a friend who sadly had passed away um a couple of years earlier in childbirth. She was in a smaller, uh, she wasn't in a major city center hospital. And her pre-eclumpsia, oh, I can't think of the one that where it goes next, help H E L L P is, and so sh it was too late, unfortunately. And so when I got pregnant, we were kind of living in this haze of having just lost Adrian. And so my husband, when he's like hearing all this stuff, I was like, we gotta, you know, this is not okay. And at the same time for us, we're like, we've just lost, like, we know what's gonna happen or could happen. And so I all of a sudden was almost forced with the decision of like having to have a c-section. And I wasn't tied to uh either way, I was just like, get these this baby out no matter how it keeps us all safe. But if you're not, yeah, but I also know there's like women who are like, this is how it's going to happen, but it's it's almost like you need both. Because like if I think of and not equating women's health to like events and stuff, but I have a plan and then I have a rain plan.

unknown 33:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

And I think there's something really honest about having like, here's your natural birth, like you know, are you at home? Are you in a hospital? Like, what's your perfect world scenario? And then here's what could happen. And how do you want to be treated?

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Like the Who World Health Organization says 10 to 15 percent of births should be C-section, like that's a reasonable amount. But like in Canada, last time I checked, it's at like 28.7%. Wow. So when the percentage is that high, like you said, you need a rainy day plan. And that and I think that can be part of it. If you don't, if you haven't planned, then that then you feel powerless in that whole situation. Because when you're in the hospital, they're gonna do what hospitals do, and their point is to try and save life, right? So they're doing what they think from their perspective is the best thing, and your wants, desires, needs aren't met, unfortunately. It would be nice if we had a more holistic um focus in hospitals, but like they're busy, that's what they gotta do, and they do it, and they do it with sometimes poorer bedside manners. Yeah. Um and so even if they did it with more compassion and empathy, then maybe so many women wouldn't have issues post-Caesarean, like with like failure or regrets, or all of these, I should have done more. It's something's wrong with me, you know, all of those things. And then the fear. So so many women will have a cesarean and then not want to have the second one vaginally because they're just too afraid and traumatized from that experience. They're like, I can't go through labor and then have the C-section again. Right. And it's like, well, that might not be the outcome, but I understand what you you know, like, sure, like that makes sense. I wouldn't want to either if that if I'd had a traumatic first experience. Right. So then the power comes in having the choice, but is it truly a choice when uh you know, they're speaking from fear, right? And previous experience that was tarnished.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

And then the after care isn't there in terms of like you just went through a traumatic, you went through emergency surgery, like that's a thing. And you know, to not have and and obviously you're sent home with a kid, and we've all got to figure it out no matter how it comes out of our bodies, but like when it's been tied to trauma, it's you know, where and you know, where does that live? Where does that stay? It stays in our bodies, we know that. And if we can't process it, and now, you know, when you bring it back to like that part of one's body and the scar tissue and how it immobile can immobilize us or even cause someone to think they're not okay is is heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, it's it's it's supposed to be like one of the happiest times of your life, and for many women, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

And so you find these women, so do you women so you treat women, which is amazing, and I love it. And you know, how do people come to you specifically because you are holistic in this way, and you've you know, you help women from this postpartum place is part of what you do. And I mean, I think that's magical. I didn't even know someone would help with that before I met you.

SPEAKER_01 36:55

Yeah, I mean, uh I try and be whatever they need. Right. So I'm not rushing people on the table, I'm not rushing people out of the room. I often, you know, spend a little bit more time maybe than I should, or do follow-up stuff. Um, not that I should, that's a stupid. I don't like to shit on myself. But like, you know, where I'm like, oh, someone else is coming. I should really, you know. Um, but I really I just want women to understand that anything that's happened isn't their fault, that their bodies aren't broken, that we can like we need to reconnect with that intuition. We need to feel things in our body. We need to be connected to our entire body and not disconnected from these areas. Um, and we need to be more compassionate to ourselves and give ourselves some grace, not be so hard on ourselves and move from that place and try and move on from there and whatever whatever they need. So if they need to chat more, great. I'm not a therapist, but I can listen. And a lot of these women are not hurt. You know, and then I can advise you need to go to your doctor and talk to them about this. Or, you know, sometimes in treating a scar, like a C-section, like post, sometimes there's like swelling and inflammation. I'm like, you might have an infection under here. You need to go to the doctor and check this out. Um, because they're just like, it looks I've had women who've come in and they're like, they never once looked at the the healing.

unknown 38:31

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

They asked, How is it going? Good, okay. Not once did they do a follow-up investigation, check out the tissue, how it's healing, anything. And I'm like, seriously, like that's bare minimum they should be doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yeah, because our fine, like as a lay person, not knowing what's happened to our body and not being the medical professional, what we think is fine may not be fine. Like if we've only ever had one c-section and our scar looks like oozy or whatever, or not, or perfect or fine, like we don't know if that's correct.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

No, and I forget the percentage, but a lot of c-sections end up with some sort of infection, right? Because it's in like an area that's just like you can't help but there's pants on top, shirts on top, not a baby. You still have potentially the belly that's overhanging, so it's creating like a moisture. I hate that word moisture. But it's creating like the perfect uh place for infection to grow for things to grow, right? And then they say, you know, don't wash the suture, like you want to like be careful washing it. So then you're like, so then you're not cleaning it properly, and and you're sleep deprived in this whole experience.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

And so, like, it's the and again, as we all know as women, and we're trying to reclaim this for ourselves, is like we don't give ourselves enough time and space. No, and we certainly don't when all of a sudden you're being given a human to take care of, and it maybe you're first, it may be your second or fourth or whatever. But the you know, where you fit on the list is pretty low. We do fit pretty low on the list, and we haven't prioritized ourselves, and nor has the environments in which we're in a lot of the ways, right? No, unfortunately, yeah. It's like you've done this job, so now just get on it with it. It's like, but our bodies aren't okay. Like I feel for our friends in the US who, you know, I've got a lot of girlfriends in the US who had to give up their careers or like took, you know, and I've watched some of my friends' families give up, you know, a certain lifestyle because how do you go back to work after six weeks or three months? Like I don't even understand that. You still have stuff falling out of your body. Like I still was putting stuff in petri dishes, going, like, is that normal? Like, I can't imagine you talk about periods and poops and all the things on these on this podcast, and it's one you know, we've talked a lot about like in the menopausals, like as we're like we have crazy period moments. So what you're two months postpartum, and you have a giant blood clot fall out of you while you're at a presentation. Like, what the actual fuck? It's crazy. I don't, I don't get it. My heart breaks breaks breaks. Yeah, I don't get it. I don't, and you're lucky if you get the three months, depending on what your living situation is and your financial space and your insurance, right? Like it's I don't even get it. I don't even get it.

SPEAKER_01 41:44

No, I was not functional enough to be able to go back in any capacity like that.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

No, not at all. And you and you just do it. Like, I mean, again, none of that is correct. Um, none of a lot of what we've had to deal with with as women is correct. It's just been the way, which is also like culture of that is the way. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

So it's like, well, your girlfriend did that and your aunt did that, and your cousin did that.

SPEAKER_00 42:13

So is there something wrong with me if I can't?

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yeah, like it's it's a culture that gets created, and then all of a sudden it's like, well, I'm the bad one because I want to be outside of the system of what has been created. I mean, we're very lucky here. We are that we get a year to 18 months, depending on what is possible, but the year at least, like that is, but then you know, in that year, are we getting good support to help through? It's great to have time off. Yeah. It's great to have that protective for sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

But also you don't have enough in place to support the moms. Right. And to to your, you know, to the holistic care perspective, it's like from the moment you go home, there's so many things that we there's specialists and people we could be seeing. You know, we could be seeing someone like you who's going to help us through our C-section. Andor, you know, if we've had a vaginal birth from a pelvic health perspective, like there's there's so much that happens to our bodies that, you know, which is why I'm doing a lot of what I'm doing. And I think you've been doing like all the things we're doing in the women's space, and we're just getting louder and coming together to do it. But it's like we've got to share this information because there's so much we can be doing from like day one to help ourselves so that we're not sitting in middle age, not quite sure why we're peeing when we laugh, or why we're still having these crazy bird or like periods, or you know, why I haven't touched my C-section scar. Like, you know, opening this dialogue and you know, even to the point of like it's just normal and it's cultural. It's like we can just be able to say that, like just being able to walk down the hallway with a tampon in your hand, or having right, like there's so much about what we as women have had to deal with that's like literally been put under a blanket. Yeah. And it's time to rip that any blanket.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

We're marketed like depends younger and younger now. Like those little poise pads to collect your urine, postpartum. So it's like, great. So we can put our kids in diapers and then we can just stay in diapers because you just do. After birth, you just pee a little bit. No, we shouldn't normalize that. It means there's something going on dysfunctional in your body, yeah, and you can address it and you can get better. But that's not what the culture dictates, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:38

It's like and to your point, three pelvic health like again, I'm I have lived in the World, I've done the best that I can. And I didn't even understand that pelvic health. Like I looked at it and went, fuck, it's outside of like I'm already paying for all these other things to get better. All right. And then it's like, oh, it's covered. It's physio. It's like not just, you know, fingers in my vagina. It's like it's gonna help me, its muscles, like it's so freaking good.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Yeah, we're very lucky here in Collingwood area because we have a lot of pelvic floors and a lot of prenatal and postpartum care. So it's a very like a lot of the people, like the women I treat, they'll say, Oh yeah, I'm already doing like pre-birth pelvic floor.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

And then post, they're in like um baby and me classes focused on that. So that's really great. Like we're very lucky because I think it's bigger in the city too. Yeah, obviously. There's a lot more clinics. I looked the other day and I was like, oh, that's really there's more than three.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

There's more that was just like so shocking. Yeah. Well, and I just I I think the more we ask for it, the more we share, the more we say, is this normal? Is this right? Should I feel this way? Then your your friend who's been of a friend of a whatever is gonna be like, actually, no, that's not okay. Or, and you know, and there's there's services and and more and more popping up every day for us to get the care that we need. And it's there's still a shit ton of work to do. But just one or two more people knowing they can come and see you, like someone listening and going, Oh shit, I haven't touched my scar. I need to like, what? Like just to question what we've known, um, I think is so important.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Yeah. And I think it's funny because I feel like you're probably I'm a bit of a black sheep. I'm sure you're a bit of a black sheep outside of like the norm. The norm. Um, and I think more people need to be willing to ask questions and push, push for what they need. And so many people, and I I understand why. Like I feel empowered because I know enough. Right. So I can go into a doctor's office and be like, no, thank you. Um, and I know that's intimidating, but you still like you, nobody gets to do anything to you without you saying yes to I want to look into this treatment. Like, you don't just don't just like, okay, that sounds good. Like, do the research. What are the pros and cons of things? What other options are there? Like informed consent is not just like you saying yes, it's understanding side effects, risks, benefits, alternative options, and then you taking all that information and weighing it against what feels comfortable for you, not to, as a woman, be a people pleaser to whoever the practitioner is in front of you. But like I can't, it's so important to advocate for yourself, especially in healthcare. Because our system I just heard yesterday, nurse practitioners have been um delisted, I think. Is that what it would be called? So that there was an issue with funding from the federal government and the Ontario provincial government, and because they didn't meet a deadline, apparently nurse practitioners no longer get funding in clinics. Yeah. So people are losing care. If you were with a nurse practitioner, you're now getting like shuffled around, shuffled around. Um we're already limited. We're already limited, right? And they're seeing an increase in like emergency room visits because of that, then. So we're already seeing like things falling apart. So just like make sure you're advocating. And there's so much outside of what is considered like mainstream that can be helpful. It's just finding what fits for you. Yeah, you know, I would never say, and this is a big one, I grew up, my family are chiropractors. So and as a massage therapist, like a lot of people who are like, I would never go to a chiropractor. And I'm like, that's cool. I'm not I believe in that practice because I've understood it so thoroughly. But if if someone's on my table and I think, oh, like there's something going on in your back, I would like you to see someone else. And if they say I don't want you to see a chiropractor, I would never be like, No, you're going to see a chiropractor. Right. You take that information as a practitioner and you're like, okay, let me think of alternatives that might be beneficial outside of what I can do. And I don't know that enough practitioners are doing that, like, especially as doctors, right? It's like this is this is the word.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Well, and I think well, it's like because it all comes down to what we know. Like, we're humans at the other side. Like, all these, like you're a practitioner, you know as much as you know in your interest and what you've gone to school for and what you've researched. Like, there's no way, like, that's why multiple, like, that's why we all work on teams. It's all like, I don't do my job by myself. Like, why would you do your job by yourself? Right. And we've we've got to work together, and you're open, right? Like, you're open to saying, like, I can't do all this. Here are some suggestions where so many times we're in situations where it's like the yes, no. And like it kind of reminds me of when I like wanted to get my I'm gonna equate us to cats and dogs right now, but like I needed to get my cat. My cat had fallen off the balcony, and I was like a teeny error, not a teeny, but it was in my 20s and I went to the vet and I was like, what are my options? And he kind of he told me, and I was like, Oh, I don't know if I have a thousand dollars. I literally and he was like, Well, I guess your cat's gonna die. And I was like, What? Like, there's no other option, like, and you didn't even give me a minute. Like, I knew my cat wasn't in trouble, like I wasn't like bleeding on the table. I I needed a minute to make a a decision. Yeah, but I think so many times we're in a situation where it's like, well, that's it's your choice, like, you know, and so the human side of it isn't always there. And you have to be a unique human to be a doctor, or if like I've learned a lot as a frontline, you know, marry to a frontline um 911 human. Like there's a there's a dis difference in how people think and compartmentalize and stuff, but we then that's where, like, if that's how they are, then we get to say we just need a minute. It doesn't mean you're saying yes or no. It's just we need a minute. But I think sometimes because it's so hard to get into people and there's so much mixed information, and even more so now, like, I mean, why not see a chiropractor? Like, here's why. Like, again, here's here are what people do, make a choice versus like, well, my mom said chiropractors fucked your back. Like, okay, right? Like, it's just we just need to take a pause. And to your point, and I think this is what I've always been, I'm I'm always been intrigued by you, is like you know what you know, but you're always like, and what else? And I can do this much, but have you thought about this? Like you're very open on your social too, in terms of like these are your thoughts and opinions, but ask, and what do you think, right? And not a lot of people do that, and nor do we allow ourselves the opportunity to even give ourselves an hour to look at stuff.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Yeah, I appreciate that. And I I part of me saying like I don't know is also like putting it back, like you're part of the conversation. Like, what do you like? What are you feeling about this? Or what is your gut? Like, are you open to something different? Are you not? That's cool, but then like how do we how do we come to what's best for you in this in the you know context of this conversation we're having? So that you can leave feeling I have something, a plan, so to speak. Um, and I can leave feeling like, okay, like we've we've helped you in that way. And it's not like because a lot of times too, you know, you have one-hit wonders who come in. And I don't want to just leave people thinking, boom, that was the end. I want to be like, okay, your next steps, here are some options. Obviously, I hope they come back if that's yeah, but but the reality is I don't want to just leave with like, well, that was a great got a massage, have a great day. I want to be like, okay, so this is what's going on. Here are some options. Look at this. I'll send them some follow-up. Um, because yeah, it's it, I don't just want it to be a transactional hour. I don't want any time with me to just be a transactional in the moment. I want it to be let me try and open up and also let me kind of learn, like, yeah, I can ask for what I want, or I can advocate, or you know what, I should maybe take a moment and just like, how does that feel when I like after I go for a run? You know, because people come in and I'll ask questions and they're like, Yeah, I don't know, I'm not sure. So it's like, okay, so go, so do that and see, is that aggravating? Or is it something else after the run that brings it out? Like, so you can piece if you love, that's another thing. I would never so many practitioners are like, stop doing that then.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

I mean, if you love it, I'm never gonna say stop running, right? But let's modify and let's see how we can get you back to where you want to go versus like no, because I mean, like David Goggins is still running marathons on no knees. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Like anything is possible, you have to be open to the possibilities. And yeah, not often is one asked, or are we as women connected to our bodies? Or, you know, like I there was a couple weeks ago my sister was here and a girlfriend, and she was talking about like nervous systems. I was like, Oh yeah, I've done this and whatever. I might and she's like, okay, so you see this kind of doctor, you've done this kind of thing, and you do this, and you do that. She's like, you must just be like a really well-healed person. I'm like, well, yes, because I'm actually really proud of that. I'm like, but I've actually been open to all the different modalities to see what works because I was so closed in in how I was dealt with as a young woman up until my hysterectomy that I was just like, I was literally given a path. It was like, it's surgery, it's drugs, it's surgery, it's drugs. And there is no research. Like there was no, there was one book, there was no one to talk to, all those kinds of things. And so I'm like, so now I'm just gonna try it all. Like she's mentioned something. I was like, I did sound healing, but I fell asleep every time. So I don't know if it works, right? But like I I'm literally open to any of it, and then have like come into my body in terms of like, how does that feel? What do I like? Has it helped? Um, because I just think there's no one recipe.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

No, it's actually the sign-off of my email is stay curious. I love that, right? Just just stay curious, just don't shut doors, just ask questions and be like, oh, that's interesting. Why is it? Why? Yeah, just like go down and just maybe it's not a road you want to take, and that's cool, but you you know, right?

SPEAKER_00 56:31

We have to listen to our bodies because like I know the more I get into my body, and if I'm sitting there and I'm like, that's not like you can feel it, right? Like as a Manny Jen, I've been taught to like now that I'm like living into that, is like ask myself questions. Do I want the red mug or do I want the blue mug? And the more I'm in tune with myself, I literally am drawn to one or the other. Like I literally have, like, even if it's a spark of something, I can be like, no, I don't want the red mug. Like the blue is speaking to me. And so the more you kind of like ask yourself those questions, like, does this feel good? Does that answer feel right? Like your body will tell you. Sure will. And we've got to listen.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

We've got to listen. And that's the hardest art is turning that back on. Because so many of us have shut it down for so many reasons. Totally. But like getting back into, I mean, even down to the basics, like when you have to go to the bathroom, listen and go. Right. Right? How oh, I'll hold it. I I I just have no, just go.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

Because your body's sending you a message, and every time you override these things, you get more and more disconnected. Right? So it's just starting simple with something like that. Okay. Or I'm tired, but I gotta know. If you're tired, then like let yourself go to bed early.

SPEAKER_00 57:53

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

And deal with it the next day. There's very few things that can't be put off for a good night's sleep.

SPEAKER_00 57:59

Or a nap. I'm a big napper. I mean, I I know that I have a lifestyle in which or my working relationship, my like my working from home means I could, but I sometimes have naps. And when I was going through recovery of things or whatever, like naps were a part of my day. If you can schedule a lunch hour and if you're unwell and you need to, like even if we get colds and stuff or whatever a case may be, like if we need to rest, rest. If you need and I think that's a really I think the simple of like how many times do we have to go to the bathroom? And we're like, no, no. And that does damage over time. Yeah.

unknown 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

Okay. And if we have to rest, right? Sorry. No, no, go ahead. No, I'm just like, but we also if we have to rest, it's not like zoning out on here. No, agreed.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

That's not resting. No, I've and I've even been really paying attention. And if you're watching on you or if you're listening, Shane picked up her phone. But I'm like, I've even I'm trying to like manage like where I've got anxiety and what like because it came back all because I'm on a bunch of like I've got a doctor who does all sorts of like I'm on natural stuff and hormones and all the things. And I'm like, why am I getting this panic back? And then I'm like literally, as I like pick up my phone or look at email or whatever the case may be, I'm like, where am I? What am I doing that's getting that feeling back? And so some of it is when I pick up my phone, when I should be doing something else, not out of guilt or anything like that, but just like I could be doing something else. Yeah. Like it's wild. Yeah, I get that. Okay, so we could talk forever, and we didn't even get to talk about the fact that you are now not only helping people with their bodies, but also on the financial front. And so I would love to just take a few minutes because I think um I love that you take care of human of bodies, and now you're looking at people's finances. And I think that's so huge, especially for women, because we don't, it's another place that we ignore. Many of us ignore. Yes. So tell me a little bit about like tell the listeners a little bit about your transition and what you're now doing, or on top of what you're already doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

If we tr if we track back to the beginning when I talked about my throat thing, it was so bad that I honestly was like, I have to start planning for my family's future. So, and I am someone who likes to dive in to learn so that I'm educated about it. Even though I ghosted our financial advisor for 10 years prior, ghosted, like, nope. Uh turtled. So email me or call me, like, hey, I'd be like, I didn't hear that. Nope. Um, so I was really concerned about my health, and I'm like, I need to get them sorted. And so I took the course. I'm a licensed finance advisor in the insurance sector. There's two different sectors, there's a banking sector and the insurance sector. Um, but I can do all a vast swath of things like TFSAs, RESPs, as well as life insurance. So I went down that path because I wanted to get my my own house in order. And from there, I'm like, wow. Like a lot of women were like me and they just ignore it and you know, ghost their bills and like forget. Like I had a pile of like unopened envelopes for statements and stuff. So I really want to go into it though from a lens of stress. Like it, I people come in all the time, and one of the foundational stresses is money. And so it's living in their body, and I'm treating it. Now I can't work with people I massage, oddly enough, because it's part of my license, which is fine. Um, because I still will offer information because I think we need to be informed. But when it comes to women, like 90% of us will be in charge of the family finances at some point in our life, right? Because our partner passes, we were single, whatever it is. And so many of us don't have the tools or the knowledge to manage anything, like even remotely. And I we do like I got RERSPs because I saw it on the TTC every day going to work about the power of compound interesting interest way back in my 20s. Right. Smartest decision I ever made. I invested for a year, and that has grown exponentially over the last 30 years. So good move. But now I'm realizing so many of us aren't even putting anything away. So even the smallest amounts, like starting with like 50 bucks a month. You know, like any little bit you have that you can pay yourself first, because the government takes a lot from us, and we should try and give ourselves some back right away so that we do it and automate it and make it an easy no-brainer. Like, how many subscriptions do you have that are automated that you don't think about? And they're just going out. This one is one that goes into your future. Right. And it's funny because when I had this thing and I, you know, because of COVID and being locked down, I've always thought about like having a secondary income. There's been a lot of like multi-lever like product companies that I've looked into, and none of those models work for me because I still have 50 oils in my closet from when I did the monthly, you know, like I still have stock from all of those. So when I came upon this with like my health and everything, I'm like, this one makes sense because this is a subscription that you need for later in life. I love it. Like it's not stockpiling products that you love but don't necessarily need because they come on the monthly. Yeah, it's like going towards your future and looking at what realistically you want for your future goals. And it's scary. I know it's scary as fuck. No, so many people are like, oh my gosh, that sounds so interesting. And then they boast me for it. You like saw that, done that, been there, yeah. And I get it because like I was so afraid, and then your nervous system shows up. Like, so when I came to my financial advisors, I would go into total freeze mode, right? Like, I don't want to deal with it. But when I come to my husband, and if he would question something, I get super fight mode. Like, who are you to ask? How I'm spending money. Right. Right. So our nervous system shows up, we react to conversations about money, but those reactions are not us responding in real time in a way that allows us calm and clarity for how we should actually manage our money. And so that's the lens that I'm trying to help women and families look at. I don't know why my doorbell just rang. Hopefully that turns out. Um, through that lens so that families can be financially secure.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

Like for their kids' future, for their future. I mean, I could go down a whole rabbit hole of like wealth transfer and you know, with elderly parents, aging parents, um, setting kids up for their future. Like there's so many different avenues that are important to touch on, but you have to like sit down, talk about where you are, what you have, what your goals are, and what's realistic for you to invest in yourself on a monthly basis and go from there.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Right. And and I think the biggest thing, like I know some of like my ghosting and my fear is like shame. Do I have enough? You know, I'm an entrepreneur, I've like bootstrapped, I'm invested in my business, you know, I'm you know, like, do I, you know, I'm just speaking for like there's do I have enough? Like there's so many women, you know, do you and men, but like women, do we just we think we can't do it unless we had like hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank? But I love when you were just like, it's like a subscription to start with 50 bucks. Like, yeah, you know, I and because to me it's like taking some of that like shame, fear, I don't have enough, I'm unworthy, I'll this won't amount to anything. Like there's so much tied. I mean, a lot of my money stuff, my parents, you know, didn't fight about a lot of stuff, but they fought about money, and then in the end got divorced. And in the end, my, you know, my mom didn't do as well as a single mom, and all the like that's a whole other therapy session. But like I didn't I it It was like grew up in the not enough. And so I've been like more generous in life, where then my sister is like a little bit more like, oh my God, will I have enough and stockpiles? And so we all come with that energy. But I, you know, but it's so true what it lives in our bodies and our nervous systems. And I think that's what makes you so unique in the fact that like, even though I you wouldn't be able to massage someone anymore, but you've got all that like holistic like thinking and feeling and education to then tie it to the money. And and and I don't, and you're not pretentious in it in any of that, and you did it out of care of what you've wanted to do for your family, which I think also makes you so ridiculously approachable.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:29

Well, thank you. I like that's I just want to help people. I mean, there's some easy things right off the bat, is if you have like RESPs or TFSAs invested in the bank, what kind of percentage are you getting on that?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Because it needs to be outpacing inflation, like quite frankly. Right. Um, and if it isn't, then that's problematic. And you need to look at how you can reinvest it. Like if you got TFSAs, and it's amazing when people do this, and I'm not, it's like, yes, you're you're saying making a choice for yourself, but if you got TFSAs at the bank and they weren't invested in the market at all, then you're making maybe hopefully 1%. Like it's like a glorified savings account, and you don't want that, you want it to be invested, so it's making six, eight, 10%, depending on what your comfort level is with your um investment portfolio. And the other thing is when couples have TFSAs, make your it's only if you're married, make your spouse a successor on your TFSA, not a beneficiary. Yes, that too. But as a successor, if something happens to your spouse, you take over the TFSA. If you're the beneficiary, you take the money, but you have nowhere for that money to grow that's tax free. So you take over the TFSA. Now you have two T FSAs that are growing instead, and then you take out money as you need. Right. But it's like that is just such that's the one I tell everybody. I'm like, if you have a TFSA, you need to be doing, you need to check this.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

No, I love that. I mean, I think any tip when it comes to the financial side of things is so, I mean, our financial literacy is not as good as we need it to be on so many levels.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:18

No, because we all learn from our families. We weren't taught anything in school. So your money story comes from how your parents dealt with money issues and conversations, and then it's your own experience of how you've gone through life with money. And money is the only relationship that is with you from birth until death. When you're born, money is an a factor in how what happens in your upbringing. And then when you die, it is still even beyond because there's taxation on whatever you have left that goes to, you know, your um I dealt with that when my dad died suddenly.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

There was, you know, probate and all this stuff that's just lost. And I mean, that's again a whole other episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:08

Um, which is why I love the insurance sector because there's protections. I mean, it doesn't go through probate, you get paid off sooner. Like there's a whole bunch of protections in the insurance sector that they don't have in the bank, which is why I'm like so passionate about trying to help women and families with like protecting it that way. Because you don't want people taking more of the money that you is deserved.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

Like, and why? Just like it's so, yeah. So many, so many questions. I think, Gene, we could talk forever and ever. I know this. We've not we have so much in common. We needed to write a book together so we could like have what we need to say in the world like in print forever. So it's a book too. I think I think I've got some ideas. Let's um, but there's so much gold in this conversation. I know people um are gonna want to reach out to you. Um, so how can they do that? If someone wanted to get in touch with you, how would they do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

They I have a website, shanehenderson.com, S H A 10. Um on there, I I have both of my business focuses. And then on my Instagram at Shane.henderson, um, I primarily do finance stuff on there because I find that's where more of the questions come through.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Right. Perfect. We will link that in the show notes. And um thank you so much for your time and your expertise.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:29

And before we go, I want to say thank you for all you do because this I know is a passion project, but it's so important. I'm gonna cry, yeah. It's so important to have these conversations and make this information accessible for women because uh women need it. Like we we're so we used to be in community and now we're so isolated, and this kind of stuff helps bring women together, breaks down the stigma, and hopefully there's more conversations happening in small gatherings and like women's circles and other, you know, friends getting together that like have the ripple effect that I'm sure it does. So thank you for being such a rock star. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Just hanging out here in my underwear, one conversation at a time. Thanks, friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Well, we'll have to do that together one day.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:18

Sure can. Sure can. Thank you so much. Thank you.