Ep. 17: Katherine's story & The Surgical Menopause Club

Katherine Glyde is a 36-year-old from just outside London who had a total abdominal hysterectomy after a cervical cancer diagnosis. What started as a routine smear test led to discovering fibroids that had degenerated into cancer, requiring an emergency total hysterectomy. Now on HRT with minimal medical support, Katherine is navigating surgical menopause in her thirties while most of her friends are navigating completely different life stages. Out of that loneliness, she created the Surgical Menopause Club—a community space for younger women facing this transition. In this episode, Katherine and Amy talk about the gap between women like them at different ages, why nobody warns you about surgical menopause, and what it takes to build community when the medical system won't.

Key Components

• How a routine smear test led to a cancer diagnosis the day before her 36th birthday, and what it feels like when everything accelerates overnight.
• The isolation of sitting in a women's outpatients waiting room surrounded by pregnant women while waiting to find out you'll never have biological children.
• From emergency surgery to HRT with a single sentence of explanation — what happens when doctors give you a patch and send you home.
• Building community on TikTok because the healthcare system won't: The Surgical Menopause Club and why 55,000 hysterectomies a year should be impossible to ignore.

"There is nobody talking about this at my age. I'm not married. I don't have kids and I had no choice but to make this big choice. Why are we not talking about this?"

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Check out The Surgical Menopause Club

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🤘 Podcast produced by Binge-Worthy Studio

For informational and entertainment purposes only — not medical advice. We're here to get loud, not to play doctor.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:45

The day before her 36th birthday, Catherine Glyde was told they were treating it as cancer until proven otherwise. It started with a routine smear test. A nurse said, I can't find your cervix. It's moved. What? Weeks later, Catherine was in surgery. Total abdominal hysterectomy, a 25 centimeter scar, surgical menopause at 36. My guest today is Catherine Glyde from just outside London, England, and the founder of the Surgical Menopause Club. She looked around at her age and stage and found nobody talking about this. No book, no community, nowhere to belong, so she built it herself. And here's the part that got me. Before any of this, Catherine had endometriosis, PMOS, adonomous, fibroids, PMDD. 17 years of what is wrong with my body. From her first period at 11 to a diagnosis at 28, she wrote off every symptom as probably just my endometriosis, because that's what we're trained to do. Push through, bleed through, smile, get at her. We get into all of this. The scans, the scars, the appointments, where everyone's crowding around you. How many people can look at your vagina at once? Why surgical menopause is a conversation nobody's having? The nicknames we're done with, and why community and funded research are the only things that move any of this forward. For the woman who's been told it's probably nothing. For anyone who's never found the club they belong to, this episode's for you. This is the Down There Aware Podcast. I'm Amy Milne. Let's get loud. I am so excited to welcome Catherine to the Down There Aware Podcast. Catherine, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

It's so nice to be here. I'm excited. You're gonna hear that she has an accent, and I did find her on the internet. As people know, if there's there is a theme when people listen to my podcast, I do stalk great people, but in a good way. I'm not a bad stalker, I'm a good stalker. Um always looking for amazing people in the women's health space. And something that I know there is a huge gap. Uh, and when I found Catherine, I was like, wow, there there is, and it's nice to find people in a similar spot. Um, so Catherine is here to talk about her journey in surgical menopause. And so, Catherine, please tell our amazing listeners all about you.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Thank you. Well, we have very different accents. I'm from, I'm just outside London in England, so very different accents, very different part of the world, but great. Yeah. Um, so I had to have uh a hysterectomage 11 weeks ago, or for for the day of the recording, it was 11 weeks ago yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Um, I had so in the UK we have a smear test, which I think you guys would call a pap smear. I think it's the same thing. Yeah. Where they check for like cervical cancer, those kinds of things. And I just made a passing comment to the nurse who was doing it and said, um to get really deep into the situation, she was like, I can't find your cervix, it's moved. And I was like, Oh, great. And I had this really big like lump in the front of my stomach that was really hard. And I said, Oh, is that why I've got this lump? And she was like, What? I was like, Oh, I thought that was normal. Um, and so she said, No, we need to get you, we need to get this seen to you. This isn't right. Um left my smear test, not really thinking anything more about it, because in the UK where we have the NHS, um, any gynecological wait list, you're looking at months and months and months before you get seen. So I just put it out of my mind until so this was the Thursday. The following Tuesday, I'm at I get a call from the hospital to say you have been put under a two-week wait, which for us is a cancer referral. And I was like, Oh, um, that's not what I was expecting, but okay. Thinking, well, they'll look at the report and go, Oh, it's nothing. We'll just downgrade her to like a routine referral and we'll see her in a year. And then the next day I'm in the hospital having tests, having scans, having appointments, and it's one of those like everyone's kind of crowding around me. It was really scary. And so I'm 36, and the day before my 36th birthday, I was told we're treating this as cancer until proven otherwise. And the whole world around me just kind of shattered. I just I have I would have taken it a lot more seriously if I realised it could have got to that point, but I'm also glad that I'm being seen and I've got all of that stuff happening. And so fast forward weeks of MRI scans, CT scans, appointments. So many people looked at my vagina. It's insane. Like it's a viewing party. It was, yeah, it was kind of crazy at that point of just every appointment was like, well, we're just just gonna have a little look. It's like okay. And then I got the date. So two weeks, uh two months and two weeks before my first appointment, I was in having my hysterectomy. Um, there was no time for any kind of egg freezing, there was no time for any anything really to think about because we had to move so quickly. Um, so I had to have a total abdominal hysterectomy. So I've got a line scar down the front of my stomach, which is 25 centimetres. I made my mum, as soon as the um bandage came off of it, I made my mum get her tape measure and measure it for me because I was like, this is huge. And she was like, it's not that bad. I was like, no, it's huge. It's just like it's 25 centimetres. So that felt huge. Well, strange, but it is huge. So it kind of like gives you that perspective on actually what happened. Um so I had cervix, fallopian tubes, uterus, ovaries, the whole lot is gone. Um, I'm on um hormone replacement therapy here now and just navigating life post-hysterectomy. Um, I got all the results and it was cancer. I'm now cured because the hysterectomy, which we knew would be curative, because they do, I don't know what it's like where you guys are, but for us, they did, they think it's cancer and they'll check other organs before they operate, before they make so they'll find out if it's spread and then go for their surgical plan once they know the situation. So for me, I they they kind of said we we're 99% certain it's cancer. And the type of cancer it is it will have spread to your lungs if it goes anywhere else. So we need to check your lungs before we do anything else. It's like this is just the most overwhelming situation. And you feel like you're running on a treadmill, like everything is moving around you so fast you're trying to keep up with it all. Um, every appointment gets a little bit scarier by the day. And then the next thing I knew while I was in having my surgery, um, I had the most incredible team. I was so well looked after. Um, and then I came home, and then it was just, and I you get discharged once you've got your results and you've passed your kind of six-week recovery time, that's it. You should carry on with life again, as though it hasn't happened. So yeah, it's um that's kind of the the very quick, as quickly as I can possibly tell the story story. No need for quick on this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

No need for quick.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Love that. Um, but yeah, so I had, yeah, it was not how I expected to spend the year, that's for sure. But also I'm very glad that it got sorted and it didn't get any worse. And a lot of the symptoms that I was experiencing beforehand that I was kind of just writing off of something else have gone. So I actually do feel a lot better than I felt before the surgery. So in a really kind of roundabout way, it was a positive thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Um so we've got a lot to unpack there, Catherine. And thank you so much for sharing that. Um what were I want for people who are listening to, because people, you know, we talk about all sorts of different women's issues here. You mentioned you weren't feeling well ahead of going to the doctor. So what were some of the things you were feeling and symptoms you were feeling before you were like, huh, maybe I need to see someone?

SPEAKER_01 9:10

So the the kind of other half of the story is that I had um endometriosis, PCMS, which now is called PMOS here, um atomiosis and fibroids and PMDD. So I had a lot of like women's health stuff going on beforehand. Um I got diagnosed with endometriosis first. Um, and my symptoms started when I was 11 when I got my first period, and then I was diagnosed at 28. So 17 years of what is wrong with my body? Yeah, go fast.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

They just got right to it for you.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Got diagnosed with everything it could possibly be that it wasn't, and actually, when you look back, could never have been. But diagnosis times for endometriosis in the UK are horrendous. They are, I think it's the average is like nine and a half years now. So it's just it's ridiculous. Um it's not okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

Like it's it's not okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

It's like I don't understand why we're not angry about the situation, but actually we are angry, but nothing's really moving forward. Um but yeah, for me, I kind of any symptom that I had, I sort of just went, Oh, it's probably just my endometriosis. Oh, it's probably just my endometriosis. Right. And you're so kind of programmed as a female to just push through and just to kind of go, oh well, I've got my period, I'm bleeding really heavily, but let's act like my whole world is normal. And that whole like really empowering phrase of anything you can do, I can do bleeding is actually not okay. Like how yeah, it's really annoying. It's a whole other rabbit hole that I could go down.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

I agree. I also don't like this like queenager shit either. Like, I'm not a teenager again, going through menopause and perimenopause. I'm a grown woman with like totally different experiences. I am not a teenager, like I hate that queenager. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Yeah, people say it here too, and I'm like, it's so like degrading to the person who has lived a full life and suddenly you're calling them a teenager again. Like, make it make sense. Yeah. How is that? Who thought that was a good thing to tell someone?

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I know. And there's women doing it too, and and if they identify with that, great, but yeah, I just I'm to me that just puts us right back into a box of something else. Like, I don't want to go backwards. You know, how about I'm a mature woman dealing with mature women health concerns? How about that?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah. And it's just like it makes again, it kind of covers up the actual issue. Let's sort out healthcare, let's make sure people are seen, let's make sure people have the right resources, let's stop calling them silly nicknames. But again, if you like the nickname, it vibes with you and it's your vibe, you do you. But for me and with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We're done. No queen agers and no I can do anything better bleeding. Like, no, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Like, no. Um so yeah, kind of going back to like that kind of side of things, you have to have a smear test here every well, I was having to have them yearly because I had um a weird result one year. Um, and I'm at high risk or was at high risk for cancer anyway. So my GP was like, okay, you're gonna have to just keep coming back for these. Um, and it was literally just because I was due for that smear test that I said something. Had I not been due for the smear test, probably would still be living the way I was before and just getting generally sicker and sicker. Um, but it turns out for me that it was the fibroids that had degenerated. Um, and it's not a common thing that happens, it doesn't happen to everyone, but that is just what happened to me that it degenerated, it became cancerous, had to come out. Even if it but the for me, even if they weren't cancerous, they still had to come out because they were too big, they were pushing on my bladder, my kidneys, other organs, all of that stuff was starting to get damaged. Yeah, so the cancer side of it is kind of a whole separate thing. Um, because the fibroids had to come out anyway. So I would have ended up like this anyway, regardless. Um, and it would have had to have been an open procedure anyway. Um, and when you talk about hysterectomies, there's so many ways that you can have a hysterectomy. Um, you can have them keyhole, you can have them open, you can have your C-section, like and everything brings a completely different recovery time experience, hospital stay. So even if you say to somebody, like we've both had hysterectomies, probably completely different experiences. And you can't I can't relate to someone who's had a keyhole. Someone who's had a keyhole can't relate to me having it open. It's um yeah, it's such a strange, like that like ambiguous ambiguous no, that's not the word. The ambiguousness that's not a word. Yes. That's it. Nice enough. Yeah. Um, you got it, you nailed it, we're together on it. Yeah. I'm blaming menopause for the fact that my brain goes, it's just forgotten. The words that have been in my vocabulary for my entire life don't exist to me anymore.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Nope. My girlfriend and I just had that right now. We were we were chatting, and literally we were both, she's here visiting my girlfriend Jana and I, and we were literally we're we were talking about like the kind of fish that do this, and we're staring each at each other. Like my joke is always every day is a game of charades because somehow we're gonna get there. Where it's teamwork, but we're literally just like staring each other in the eye, like the word's gonna come, like we're gonna use this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

It's yeah, yeah. And I feel like that's such a female experience. So you just have to be like, please help me find the word that I'm looking for. Um, yeah, you're just waiting for somebody to go, I know the word you're looking for, it's this word. And it's okay that you've forgotten it because this is normal. This happens to people. Well, that's it. It's normal. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

And I I love that you so I'm very sorry you've had to go all through this, and I'm very sorry you were ignored by the medical system. And it's it's crazy for me. Like you and I live in completely different countries with different governments, with different medical systems, and yet there is a through line, which is why, you know, when you talk about we need to be angry, this is why we're doing what we're doing, this is why you started the Surgical Menopause Club, this is why I've started this, and which and my event, because I want I want us to start raising money globally, because money is actually going to change our outcomes. We need research. And so, you know, let's similar to you, eidendometriosis, and you know, checking, you know, living that experience to get us both to where we were at different ages and stages for a hysterectomy. Then when you like uncover this hysterectomy blanket, when you're all of a sudden now in this crew, to your point, there's so many different kinds of hysterectomies. Nobody is speaking to us in the same language. Like, I don't know, you rebuilt my cervix. I don't know what that means. Like, you know, are you taking my ovaries? Are you not? To your point, how is it even coming out of your body? What happened post hysterectomy? Like, and then and and one of the things that I that is something that is so close to my heart and that I I can't empathize with, but I want to help is that women younger than myself, and we talked a little bit about this before we jumped on, but something that I'm, you know, as I'm as I'm so in this right now is that a woman at 24, a woman at 32, a woman like yourself at 36, having a hysterectomy is very different than me having a hysterectomy in my in my you know late 40s, early 50s for so many reasons. We can unpack the the childbearing situation. We, you know, we can talk about the fact of even menopause and HRT. The thing is that's different between you and I, Catherine, is that my friends, me at 52, we're talking I have common language-ish, because we're just learning it all. Um, to speak to like my friends are talking about HRT. My friends are are dealing with brain fog and things like that. At 36 years old, most of your female friends are likely just maybe, maybe if they're an early onset perimenopausal woman, maybe are dealing with it. So you are, you and I, while we have ridiculously some we're we're not in the same phases of life for this to even be relevant. And so that's one thing that I'm, you know, as I look at the surgical menopause space to learn more because there's almost well, there's like less than nothing available for most of the things that you listed that we've both gone through. There's like nothing, nothing on surgical menopause at various ages and stages, right? From like your 20s to your thirties. Like it is nuts to me. And what you're dealing with from a potential, and and I don't want to speak for you, but the loss of the ability to have babies to like sure I was done, but like, what is HRT? Are you on like it's just it is so we are in a category of our own, and then we are in a category of our own generationally by age. And I just, and there is nothing that we can find, in my opinion, on any of that. And to me, that is massively wrong.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Yeah, it's it's so crazy because one of the main like appointments that really stuck with me, the way it works in you come to the hospital, you go to women's outpatients, and then every gynecological type appointment starts in this one place. Um so you're then meeting people who are having early pregnancy scans or are having any kind of neonatal appointment, anything like baby related. And then I'm sat there, I'm one of the youngest in the room as well. And well, I say that I'm making an assumption there that I was one of the youngest in the room. I felt like I looked like I was one of the youngest in the room. And I'm sat there and I'm like, all of these women are having babies, and I'm in the same room about to find out that I will never have a baby. Like, how is this okay? And it's like nobody stops and says, Could we not have moved her? Could we not have let her wait somewhere else? There's a Starbucks downstairs because she operated in there and we give her a call. Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

If you can't give you your own waiting room, yeah, because then you're you're also sitting in this waiting room with people that that are look like you possibly age in stage a little more like closer, right? And then I'm sure there's nothing in that waiting room about surgical menopause and HRT. It's all about birthing and lactating and all those things, which are which is great. People need that, yeah. But that is not what you need when you're yeah, like when you press start on your adventure.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

That actually was the day that I said to myself, I need to do something about this. Um, however, this situation turns out, I have to do something because I don't think I've I mean, my mum came to every single appointment and held my hand through the whole process. But I don't think I've ever been so lonely as sitting in that room going, all disease women are having like the best time or about to do something that the universe really celebrates as well. And I'm about to have probably the worst day of my life because I'm about to find out that they think it's cancer or they know it's cancer, they think it spread to my lungs. I now need to find out what happens next. I don't know what that means for my life, my career, my mum who sat next to me, all of that kind of stuff. And I was like, right, I need to do something. And at the time, I was very much like, I'm quite scared. So at the time it was that if I make it through this, this is what I'm gonna do. And then it became while I was in hospital after my surgery, I was like, okay, I need to do something about this. And I started it actually started with a video that I'd put on my Instagram feed um before I started Surgical Metopause Club, and I put it on TikTok. That was a video that I took of myself just sitting up against the wall. And I'd said, like, I can't remember how I worded it, but it was basically like the pain of sitting in women's outpatients surrounded by pregnant people, waiting to find out if you need a hysterectomy at 36th and will never have kids of your own. And so many people reached out to me and said, Oh, I'm in a similar position. I I'm like 28 or I'm 38, all of these kind of things. And I was like, okay, there is a there is a space here. I'm not, I'm not the only one. There are more people. And the internet and social media is going to be how I find them. And so, yeah, that's kind of how Cergical Medical Club was born. Um, and I just started talking about the story and saying I did like a video countdown, and people were actually giving me really helpful advice as well as saying, like, oh, if you pack, I remember one of the main things somebody said to me is take your hospital bag and then put a little bag inside it. So, because you're not gonna be able to get out of bed. So as soon as they bring you round to the ward or wherever you want to stay, get them to take that bag out and put lip balm, hand sanitizer, whatever it is you need, a phone charger, a battery pack, all of that stuff. And so it's just grabbable because you're not going to be able to get to your bag and unpack your bag the way that you would. And you've not thought of that because who thinks of those tiny details? It made stuff like that, made the experience so much easier, and then you felt Like you were, you had people around you who understood. Um and to kind of to the point of like how you navigate it at 36 when you're not I mean, I skipped straight over perimenopause because I hadn't had any symptoms of perimenopause so far. So I just leapt over that last stage. But I had my mum had to have a hysterectomy when she was 50. So the the actual um like surgery itself, I did have some kind of support in that. I knew what to expect. I was with, I wasn't obviously with her in the operating room, but I was around when she had that, when she was recovering, I kind of saw what was happening. She's been amazing, but then my mum didn't have HRT. My mum was perimenopausal before she had a hysterectomy. So there's there's a whole gap of people where you're like, I don't know how to navigate this life stage. So you do end up speaking to people who have gone through menopause naturally who are on HRT that are like, oh, actually do this with your patch and this patch, this product will get the sticky stuff off of you from your patch. I was like, there's sticky stuff. Like, what are you talking about? Exactly. And it's all of those things that it's um so you do kind of turn to like the generation kind of above you to go, how do I do this? Um, and actually I think that's probably the biggest gift is finding the people who have uh are going through this at such young ages and saying to them, okay, like oil will get that sticky stuff off and put that patch where no one can see it, like put it on your bum cheek, don't put it anywhere else. If it moves, change it. All of those little like tips and tricks that you kind of pick up naturally, we don't pick them up naturally because no one thinks to tell us. So I think that's what you give.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

And and you're not back to like, and your friends aren't talking about that stuff, right? Like you're you are talking about different things. Our my friends at my age are starting just, right? Like, I mean, Catherine, we're on like, you know, I've been talking about my body parts since I was 14 and had my period because my life is sucked with endo and all those kinds of things. But again, you like similar to you, bury it, you just get through it, you kind of like navigate life in living in pain every day. And but my friends are naturally talking about it. You're sitting around at cocktail parties or at the pub or on a walk or whatever talking about very different things. And so it's it's but there are people your age that are dealing with it, but it's few and far between until you find them because what we've all lived through is very lonely because there isn't community and hasn't been community until you've started what you've started, what I've started, right? Like it's going to take all of us to can you know, create this community, and in our own little pockets, we're gonna be able to, you know, it's the sum of the parts. And so for question for you as someone is listening. So, what what was the experience from I want to go back to I'll we'll talk about the club in a little bit, but I want to just when you got out of surgery and it was like HRT, what hormone replacement therapy were you given? And were you given much conversation around it or just like slap this on your body?

SPEAKER_01 26:12

So I was given it's called Ever Roll. I don't know if it's the saying. Okay. Um it's a patch. I don't have the box in front of me. I think I've said it right. Um, and I uh had a friend who messaged me who I work with who said, let me know what you're on. And this is the one. And I think the really key thing for that is to say what you're on before you ask the person what they're on, because that's what she did for me. She was like, this is the one I'm on. And I was like, So what? It didn't even occur to me that you're on HRT. Like it just you drove a thing about that sort of thing. Um because the decision to have my ovaries taken was made on the day of surgery, that kind of odd me that that's the way it happens, but there wasn't a huge amount of time to prepare. Um, the way it would, the way it was working for me was that I could have left my ovaries. Um and then but if it come back as cancerous, I would have needed to have gone back and had them taken out. And I was like, oh, this is silly. I don't want two surgeries. I don't even I mean my ovary function was really bad anyway. Um, and even even had it not come back as cancer, I'm still pleased I have them taken away because of looking at the histology reports and all of that kind of stuff, the function just wasn't there. So I don't know what they would have done to support me on their own. Um so that decision was made kind of the morning of surgery, and they're like, oh, it's fine, we'll give you HRT, you'll be fine. I was like, oh, okay. Is that not a call set? Okay. And so I had my surgery on a Monday and they do it. I don't know if it's the same for you guys, but they do um HRT change patch changes on Mondays and Thursdays. So I was given I my patches were given to me on Thursday because that's the day I was leaving the hospital and they said, We'll get it to you in time so you can do that Monday Thursday kind of changeover. So I was like, Great.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

The nurse gave me the box and I was like, Well done that. Like, what is it? And she was like, Oh, let's put it for you. And she said, Oh, you just put it on like the back of your arm? And I was like, Do I? Okay. And then I spoke to said friend who said to me, Here's like some of the things that you can do. Here's some of the things that can help you. She was like, Why did she put it on your arm? It needs to go somewhere that's like fleshy and that there's some fat around it. Like, put it on the bun sheet. Like, that's the way, and it will catch less on your clothes, it's a bit more private, there won't people won't see it. Um, and so yeah, after the the following Monday, I took it off my arm, put it on. Well, the fresh patch went on my bum, but there was no conversation. Um, I had a HRT review with my doctor. Um, so my GP general practitioner kind of I I'm assuming you guys have the same thing that if you need similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

We have a GP, yeah, same thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah, perfect. Um, and I had to have a HRT review there. Um, and they said the doctor is kind of unhelpful, and just said, Oh yeah, like because I really, really struggle to sleep the first. I mean, really, it's only just kind of settling down and we're at like week 11. And she was like, Oh yeah, that's normal. I was like, is it though? Is it really normal? And I said, I I've got concerns about going up too high too quickly because what happens when that stops working, if that stops working, um, because I'm so young, I'm gonna be on it for a long time. And so she's like, Oh, then just a same one. And that was my HRT review. So there isn't a huge amount of support. A lot of it is coming from um doctors who share on social media I can potentially get referred to a menopause clinic by the NHS, or I can do it privately. Not really sure what the route to go down is, but yeah, it's there's not a lot of conversation. It's the same as like it, it does feel like history repeating itself because when I first went to the doctor about my heavy periods, I was told, Oh, here you go, here have the pill. And then that was it for 12 years, I think it was for me. That you just go, Oh yeah, just eat that, you'll be fine. And it kind of feels the same, but I'm not 12 now. I can kind of and know where to get and we have the internet, we have social media. Whereas that well, I mean we didn't have social media when I was 12. So there's an element of even though it's history repeating itself, we can make, we can check change the conversation, I feel, because we've got access to so much more information.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Yeah. And we can advocate for ourselves differently because at least we can see what's out there, right? And we can connect with people and say, hey, we might not know each other, but what you're putting out there feels familiar. Um, and I think that leads us nicely into the surgical menopause club. So please tell me and tell our listeners what that's about, what you hope to achieve with that. I just I think it's so amazing because just before we jump into that, the other thing is too, is HRT review for us, post to sterectomy, I'm pretty sure we just lost everything, not just estrogen. Like we're like progesterone, in my opinion, not a doctor, not here to like investigate with the doctors that have the information. But progesterone, I was given progesterone, I don't know if you were, years ago for my endometriosis, um, as like one of the many drug therapies that someone would like threw it at the wall to see if it would stick. And so progesterone helps with sleep immensely. But it's like if we we almost know more, like, and this is what you know, some of the the doctors that have become vocal out on social, like the Dr. Mary Claire Cleavers and you know, of that sort, and even what Oprah Winfrey is doing. I don't know in the in the UK who's kind of standing out, but these are some of the ones that I know that are talking about the fact of like there's more, there's different ways we can handle things, but there's no one talking about surgical menopause in terms of, you know, but we're learning more because our doctors, sorry, the point wise because of brain things, um, is that you know, we're learning that doctors learn like 10 minutes worth of or a day of menopause. So if that's what our gynecologists are are being educated on, our GPs like what they're hanging at anything. And now they're prescribing HRT. And I mean, I'm I know for a lot of my friends, they go to doctor, I'll tell them what I'm on because I've done all the research and I have access to people and I'm doing all this stuff. And then I'll have friends that go to the doctor and they're like, Yeah, my doctor said I shouldn't really be on it. I was like, so get another fucking doctor.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'll adapt that like yeah, what?

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Like it's crazy. And so and similarly, I spent money and went naturopathically because through the Dutch test, they measure your urine over 24 hours so they can see hormone levels because you can't see all the hormone levels in brut in blood tests, but no, nobody's telling anybody that like it's crazy, and so there is nothing for us leaving hyster full hysterectomies other than like I was handed a tube of estrogen gel and you were given a patch, and it was like, see in two years. Like, are you fucking kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah, it's and it's just like you kind of go out and go, my whole world has just changed, and there's nothing. Um, there's absolutely nothing to help you. And I think, yeah, that's kind of where Surgical Miracles Club came from, was that actually there is nothing. Um nothing. So yeah, it kind of came that idea came from just that world deep like loneliness of the situation, talking about it, and so many people were like, Oh yeah, I'm going through it too. And like, um, if you look at TikTok, the amount of people talking about surgical metaphors is unbelievable. And so many of them are under their four uh like in their 30s, early 40s, right? Um, which is just insane. In the UK, according to the NHS, there are 55,000 hysterectomies per year. So it's not a small number of people going through this, it's a lot. Um, so yeah, I just kind of wanted I looked around, I couldn't find anything, I couldn't find anything that also felt like me again because I'm I wasn't very menopausal. I'm not, I don't like calling menopause midlife either, because I'm in menopause, but I'm not in midlife. So it's kind of that I'm in that like frustrating place of it all. And so for me, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna create it, I'm gonna speak to a few people, see what the vibe is. And everyone told me, yes, do it. It's a really good idea, it's really, really needed. So it's just on an app called Click. Um, and it's essentially like it kind of looks like social media, but it's not social media because it's very separate from meta and everything else. Um and we host, there's an ongoing chat that you can come in, say hello, talk about what's going on with symptoms, are more than welcome. Um, I've been working as a coach for a long time for about four years now, um, working specifically within women's health and endometriosis and all of that kind of stuff. Oh, cool. Taking a lot of that there. But for me, when anyone says, oh, it's TMI, I'm like, no, no, no, TMI means tell me immediately. I want to know straight away. So that's the rule within Surgical Metopause Club. TMI means tell me immediately. Um, and it's about having like a group of cheerleaders and a group of people that are like, yes, you can do this. Um, it is open to any age, any experience, any type of hysterectomy, um, however long ago you had it. We've got somebody in there who had hers about 10 years ago. We've got someone who is waiting for her date. So it's for anyone. And I feel like there's such peace about being able to say, to say to somebody, oh, this is something that really helped me packing, or this is something that really helped me uh a questions you ask. There's something quite like, yeah, peaceful about being able to do that for somebody else. Um we host an open house once a month. I have tempted to make them for Atley because I enjoy them so much. Um, and it is just a Zoom call. Come as you are. We do them Sunday mornings, we do them some evenings, bring your dinner, come in your pajamas, whatever works for you, you're welcome as you are. You don't have to speak, uh, you don't have to turn your camera off or on. Yeah, don't have to turn your camera on. You can do whatever you need to do to be there, but you are welcome and you're celebrated. And I love that that person has turned up and asked a question or shared some experience. Um, and then eventually the plan is to make it more of a membership-based so the free option will always be there. Um, so it will always be that space. It will always be um open houses will always be there as a free option for anyone who needs them. And then we're going to introduce guest speakers, um, in-person events. There'll be opportunities to do some coaching with me one-to-one as well. Um, kind of that forward thinking, how do I get through life now? What do I want to do now moving forward? Um, there's been a couple of conversations about retreats as well for people in Sergical Meniblore. So we'll get some yoga instructors in, we'll get some, we'll get an amazing chef to come and cook for us all, we'll go and like hang out by the beach, yeah, all of that good stuff that you need as part of your recovery. So that is the plan, the kind of long-term plan. Always that free option, that is vital to me that that free option will always stay. But we will extend it out into kind of more value, what else we can add to people, what else we can give people, more conversations, more information as well. Like I'd love to bring a doctor in to come and talk about it. I'd love to bring a menopause specialist in to come and talk. Um, and I want to go out and do more talks as well, because in the UK we talked about menopause way more than we did four years ago, but I never hear anything about surgical menopause. So we need to change that too. Nothing because yeah, yeah, exactly. It's and if 55,000 women are going through it every year, that's not okay. That's absolutely not again.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

It's not okay.

unknown 38:43

No.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Nice because it's still a it's still a club no one belongs to until you started it, right? Like as you've been speaking, what I wrote down was I belong. And what you and I say that for all of us in this situation, you know, I've shared my story on the podcast, and that, you know, I had endometriosis and I didn't know anyone who had it. And when, you know, when I was diagnosed, there was like one book and that was it. And, you know, I didn't have the internet, I didn't, you know, and so the women before me, even worse, but I just didn't, I didn't I didn't belong anywhere. Like I, you know, and then I've shared openly that I then further didn't feel like I belonged because then as information was shared, I had kids. And so I carried this shame and guilt with me for so many years that I was even further out of any club because I had kids. So could I really be sick? Did I deserve to talk about my pain? You know, because I just it was like, but I I got the end result that so many want, but that's that's not the point. But because we weren't talking about it and there weren't clubs for us in community, right? Like it's a club, but it's a community of like-minded people. And similar to you, different stage, having my hysterectomy, I had literally Laura, who's been on the podcast already, an incredible woman, similar, and you know, I she had bravely posted something about having uh her her hysterectomy, and I was like, tell me more. Like I she, similar to you, was like, pack this, do this. Here's links to the stuff on Amazon. And if it wasn't for Laura, I wouldn't no other human being was able to give me a hand. And my mom had had hyster hysterectomy, but it was tied to cancer, so she wasn't so much thinking about hysterectomy as the fact that it was yeah, the means to the end of the cancer. And again, her experience very different in her 70s than mine, because now I have to she's on the other side of, you know, she's full post-menopausal. So it's like yeah, there is there is this category of human being, us women, from the ages, basically from the day you start to menstruate to the day they can take that those body parts out of us, it's the gamut. And to your point, and I love it, and I want to be so careful with two things you said, like this midlife menopause thing. I want to, I want to make sure I remove that because that's not cool. Um, it's education. So thank you for that. Because menopause isn't just midlife because of our surgical menopause sisters. And I love this TMI, tell me immediately. I just think like I get goosebumps with that. Catherine, it's it's unreal. It's unreal. And, you know, I I love your goals with the with the club. And so, you know, thank you for taking your experiences and being willing to be brave and bold to share it. I mean, uh, so many people, so many people will benefit from what you're doing. And, you know, I just want to say I love that you are monetizing it from a financial standpoint because your time and effort and all of that, you know, needs to be to be compensated because while we can do things for the betterment of the world, you're out there advocating on our behalf, and it is a job, just like those menopause clinics that are popping up everywhere and all the things, right? We need to create the resource for the places that we can be and meet so that we can be healthier.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

Thank you. Yeah, it is the free option, it's very, very important, but it is a case of the more value, the more I can build, the more I can do. And there needs to be money and income within that, but it will obviously be affordable. There'll be options for everyone. Um, for me, it makes it every everything I do heals me a little bit more than I've realized. I think since because this is the first time I've really spoken about it as well, um, like in a in a place like this, you don't realize how far you've come because and you kind of reflect back on where you were. Um, but yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

And I similarly, I mean, I think we're kindred spirits in that. I mean, I I the surgical menopause piece is definitely one of my pillars because I've noticed similar to you, all the discrepancy, like all the stuff there that's not okay. And then I just know, given my background of being in fundraising and events, how much you know, money and time, you know, can and resource can be affected by events. And I don't want to just talk about it because that's similar to when, you know, we were chatting about like the words and the jokes and the memes and the things. It's like the one thing that's going to help all of us right now is community, what you're doing, and then is funding research. Because the only way any of this is going to move forward is as we fund research. And that's, you know, where I'm I'm here to be like, let's let's keep going. Because without a dollar raised, we're going to continue to fall to the bottom of the pile.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

Yeah, absolutely. And there's room for everyone to speak about it and to have these like clubs pop up, have these communities pop up. There's no like competition because we've all got the same goal. We all want to, yeah, we can all work together, we can all come together, there's room for everyone. Um, in coaching, there's a really nice phrase of like, um, there's a coach for everyone, and for everyone, there's a coach. And in this situation, there is a space for everyone. Not every space is going to be for every person. Um, and for every space, there's a person who needs it. So the more people we get talking about it, the more people we get doing things, the better it will get. It's not, it's not an oversaturated. I don't think you'll ever be an oversaturated market um when it comes to women's house. Um, but yeah, it's it is an exciting.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

So far to go. Yeah. Yeah. We've so far to go, right? Like if I think of how many coffee shops are on a corner, like just yeah, it it there's no room to your point for saturation for this. We because we are so unsaturated. Like it is, it is like desolate. And so we're starting from there. Um and you know, we need to connect over the water, we need to connect over the phone and the TikToks and all the things because even there's still every day there's people who don't even know what you and I know, right? Like we think it's known because we've lived it and breathed it, and then you meet someone and someone's like, what is HRT? Or like, what like men what's menopause? Menopause is a day. What are you talking about? Right? Like it's just it's there's so much miseducation, there's lack of community, there's lack of funding, and you're here to do your part and I'm here to do mine. And I'm so grateful I found you online.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

Thank you. Thank you so much for giving me a space to talk about it and to just accepting all the messy medical cause brain stuff and yeah, giving me somewhere safe to actually say it all out loud to somebody new for the first time.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

So I really appreciate you. Thank you. What what you're doing is brilliant. And I know our listeners are gonna want to know how to find you, Catherine. So how can they find you?

SPEAKER_01 46:19

So they can find me on uh Instagram, it's just at the Surgical Mentiros Club. Um, I'm also on TikTok as Catherine at K-A-T-H-E-R-N-I coaching. Um, my actual business is Catherine Irene Coaching, um, which I can send you for show notes and stuff. Um everything is kind of under Catherine Irene Coaching and Surgical Mentiposes Club. Um and yeah, I any send me a message, let's chat. I want to give as much away as I possibly can for people to help them.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

So yeah, just come and say hi. I can't wait for the conversation we're gonna have in five years and ten years, Catherine, because we'll be connected through this journey. And we are going to change impacts and lives. So thank you so much for joining me on the show.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Thank you so much for having me.