Plane Talk Live

Flying a Citation Jet to Sedona: Navigating Extreme Weather and Mountain Landings

Stan Snyder

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   Join Kinsey and expert pilot Stephanie as they take you behind the scenes of flying a private Citation Jet from North Las Vegas to the breathtaking red rocks of Sedona, Arizona. This video provides an in-depth look at real-world aviation procedures, featuring a comprehensive pre-flight walkaround, instrument checks, and engine starts.

Experience the thrill of flying in actual Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) conditions as the crew uses the jet's de-icing boots and weather radar to navigate through moderate turbulence, icing, and thunderstorms. Watch as Stephanie executes a stunning visual approach onto Sedona's challenging cliff-top runway, famously known in aviation circles as landing on a "postage stamp". Finally, learn about the critical importance of aeronautical decision-making and safety as the crew cuts their lunch short to outrun building thunderstorms, ultimately dodging microbursts and navigating extreme wind gusts on their journey home.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine you're uh you're eight years old, right?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I'm with you.

SPEAKER_01

And you're sitting in the second grade, and your teacher asks the class, you know, what did you do over the weekend?

SPEAKER_00

Right, the classic Monday morning question.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. But instead of talking about like riding bikes or, I don't know, watching cartoons, you raise your hand and explain that you were sitting in the co-pilot seat of a Cessna 182.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, flying through heavy turbulence and uh listening to the very distinct sounds of dead bodies shifting around in the back of the plane.

SPEAKER_00

Jeez. I mean that is that's an incredibly jarring image to start with, but you know, it honestly perfectly encapsulates the baseline of what aviation means to the subject of our deep dive today.

SPEAKER_01

It really does. So for everyone listening, we are pulling our insights today from a really fantastic, super detailed walkthrough on the Flying Doodles Aviation Channel.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a great video.

SPEAKER_01

It is. And the focus is a pilot named Paul and his uh highly specific, deeply loved machine, which is a 1986 and a half Piper Malibu.

SPEAKER_00

Right, the 1986.5 Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And, you know, whether you're a seasoned pilot yourself or just someone who's like endlessly fascinated by the lengths people go to to master really complex machinery, we're kind of bypassing the broad history of commercial flight today. We are looking at the hyperspecific, deeply human story of just one single airplane.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Because I think um to truly understand a high-performance machine, you kind of have to understand the psychology of the person operating it, right?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And Paul's relationship with aviation, it wasn't, you know, formed in some sterile modern flight academy. It's generational.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and completely utilitarian. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. I mean, his grandfather flew in World War I, his father flew in World War II, he uh he currently has a 72-year-old brother who is still working full-time as a flight instructor. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Which is wild. And that brings us back to, you know, that eight-year-old version of Paul because his dad worked as an insurance agent, but he was also a pilot who took on this highly specialized and honestly rather morbid side gig.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the uh the transport gig.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So he stripped the back seats completely out of this Cessna 182, put a flat piece of plywood down, and just used the plane to transport bodies from morgues and Galveston and Houston down to a funeral home in South Texas.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell And see, the aircraft in that context, it's not a luxury item at all.

SPEAKER_01

No, not even slightly.

SPEAKER_00

It's a tool. It's just a highly specialized, raw piece of utility equipment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think growing up in that environment, it just wires a pilot to view an airplane fundamentally as a vehicle with a job to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But the funny part is the practical reality of that job got Paul into massive trouble at school.

SPEAKER_00

Of course it did.

SPEAKER_01

Because naturally he was telling his friends these terrifying stories about, you know, the bodies making noises when the plane hit rough air.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell I mean, what eight-year-old wouldn't tell that story? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Right. So the principal actually called his dad into the school for a meeting. And Paul says he vividly remembers walking out of that office and his dad just looking at him and going, Next time, tell them you were sick.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Ross Powell That is just, I mean, pragmatic to the core, right there. And you actually see that exact same utilitarian mindset in the aircraft Paul chose to fly for like decades as an adult, which was the Piper Saratoga.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the Saratoga. And Paul explicitly refers to that plane as a hauler.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

This thing boasted a 1,600-pound useful load, and it had these massive double doors in the back. I mean, he used it to move flooring uh water heaters. He once moved an actual, literal anvil in it.

SPEAKER_00

An anvil?

SPEAKER_01

In an airplane.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. He carried a safe in it once. I mean, if we're looking for a car equivalent here, the Saratoga is basically the ultimate heavy-duty one-ton pickup truck. Yeah. You don't buy it for the smooth ride, you buy it to move heavy stuff from point A to point B. Aaron Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

But the drawback of the heavy-duty pickup truck of the sky is that it is slow. And critically, it really lacks creature comforts like air conditioning. Right. Which is uh why Paul eventually transitioned to the Piper Malibu, which was the third pressurized single-engine piston aircraft to actually hit the market. Aaron Powell Yeah, and stepping out of a rugged Saratoga and into a pressurized Malibu, I mean, it feels like creating that dusty pickup truck for a Bentley Grand Tour.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

But I do have to ask, like, is stepping up to a complex pressurized aircraft really just about wanting air conditioning for a vacation to Sedona? Because I mean, that seems like a pretty extreme leap just for comfort.

SPEAKER_00

It is an extreme leap.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it requires um a fundamental shift in purpose. Okay, how so? Well, in aviation, pilots are constantly evaluating what they call their mission. So a chosen aircraft reflects the exact requirements of a pilot's life at a very specific moment.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, right.

SPEAKER_00

And Paul's children, who by the way both recently graduated college and are pilots themselves, they're grown. So he and his wife are empty nesters now. The mission is no longer, you know, hauling anvils or building materials across the state of Texas.

SPEAKER_01

Right. The new mission is crossing 500 to 1,000 miles at a time without feeling like physically beaten up by the journey.

SPEAKER_00

Precisely. They want to escape that brutal hundred-degree Texas heat down low, get above the weather, and just reach the Florida coast or the mountains comfortably.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So the Malibu is designed specifically as that ultimate traveler, not a hauler.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell So he identifies the Malibu as the perfect machine for this new chapter, but he doesn't just, you know, scroll through an aviation website and click buy on the very first one he sees. No, not at all. He goes on this highly targeted two-year treasure hunt. And it concludes with this moment of just pure cinematic serendipity.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell The timing of it really defies logic, honestly.

SPEAKER_01

It does. So Paul is on the phone with the flight training school and he's calling to cancel a purchase because a different plane he was looking at had just failed its pre-buy inspection.

SPEAKER_00

Right. He's basically backing out of a bad deal.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. And while he is literally on that call, the broker tells him to hold on because there is someone on the other line doing the exact same thing in reverse.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, an 80-year-old pilot named Bernie Freeman.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Bernie was calling to cancel the listing for his plane because Bernie had flown this specific Malibu single pilot for 32 years.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. 32 years in the same plane.

SPEAKER_01

Right. But at 80, he realized he was gonna need a safety pilot in the cockpit with him to continue flying safely, and he simply wasn't interested in operating that way. So the broker just conferences Paul and Bernie together.

SPEAKER_00

Which initiates, honestly, one of the most fascinating interpersonal dynamics you will ever see in any kind of vehicle transaction.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's wild.

SPEAKER_00

Because Bernie does not simply negotiate a price and hand over the keys. He essentially initiates an adoption process.

SPEAKER_01

He makes Paul audition for the airplane.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy. Paul has to fly up and down the East Coast. He's meeting Bernie in Atlanta, up in Providence, Rhode Island, down in Vero Beach, and they just fly together for months.

SPEAKER_00

Months of test flights.

SPEAKER_01

Think about that from the perspective of a normal transaction. You have a buyer willing to hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars, and the seller is making him prove he is worthy of the item. It completely upends the traditional buyer-seller dynamic.

SPEAKER_00

It really does.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But it speaks volumes about the psychology of long-term aircraft ownership, you know? Yeah. Because after three decades of just painstaking, meticulous maintenance, Bernie no longer viewed that aircraft as a financial asset to be liquidated. Right. He viewed it as a living legacy. And when you pour thousands of hours and immense capital into maintaining a really complex machine, you're not looking for the highest bidder. You're looking for a custodian.

SPEAKER_01

That's a great way to put it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Bernie needed absolute certainty that this plane wasn't going to be flipped to some leasing company or just neglected by a careless operator. He needed to know the next steward possessed the correct temperament. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

And when you dive into the exact mechanical specifications of what Bernie was protecting, that kind of fierce guardianship makes total sense.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

Because Paul wasn't hunting for just any Malibu. He was looking for a very specific Goldilocks model, which is the 1986 and a half.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, the PA46310P. It is a highly sought-after half-year model.

SPEAKER_01

Why just a half-year model, though?

SPEAKER_00

Well, because it represents this really brief transitional window of engineering that combines very specific components. And the most critical piece of that puzzle is the engine. The 1986.5 is equipped with the Continental 520 engine.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, as opposed to the Lycoming engines that Piper put in the later Mirage models, right? Exactly. Because in the source video we looked at, there's actually a newer Mirage sitting right next to Paul's plane on the tarmac. And Paul points out that the Liecoming burns 50% more fuel to achieve the exact same speeds. I mean, 50%? That's massive.

SPEAKER_00

It is a massive difference. And to understand why that huge efficiency gap exists, we have to look at how the Continental Engine operates.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Because it is capable of running what's called lean of peak.

SPEAKER_01

Lean of peak. I know this is a concept that sparks a lot of debate in aviation circles, but mechanically it's pretty brilliant, right?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it really is.

SPEAKER_01

So just to break it down, in a standard aircraft engine, you usually run the fuel mixture rich, meaning you're pumping more fuel into the cylinder than the air can actually burn. And that excess fuel acts as a coolant for the engine, keeping the cylinder head temperatures down, but obviously you're wasting a lot of gas doing that.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell Exactly. So peak refers to the exhaust gas temperature. That's the absolute hottest point of combustion where the air to fuel ratio is perfectly balanced. Okay. Now running lean of peak means you pull the fuel mixture back past that hottest point. Wow. So now instead of excess fuel acting as the coolant, you have excess air acting as the coolant.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So the engine temperatures drop back down to safe levels, but because you are starving the engine of that excess fuel, your fuel consumption just plummets.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell So by utilizing that technique, Paul is burning only like 15 to 15 and a half gallons of fuel an hour while he's cruising at around 200 knots. Yep. And when you're carrying 140 gallons of fuel, that kind of efficiency just gives the airplane incredibly long legs.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

And because it's pressurized, he has total tactical flexibility. You know, he can climb up to 25,000 feet, get way above the weather, and just ride the jet stream.

SPEAKER_00

Or conversely, if he needs to avoid a massive hundred knot headwind up at altitude, he can stay down low in the teens.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Because it's not a turbine.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Because it's a piston engine. It doesn't lose massive efficiency at lower altitudes. I mean, he only sacrifices about two and a half knots of speed for every thousand feet he drops.

SPEAKER_01

That's nothing.

SPEAKER_00

It's nothing. He can comfortably carry four people a thousand miles or six people five hundred miles.

SPEAKER_01

But the Continental engine is only really half the reason this 1986.5 model is so coveted.

SPEAKER_00

Right. There's the airframe itself.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. This specific half-year model is a hybrid. It features the newer upgraded electric flaps, but it retains the older style of landing gear made by a company called Gar Kenyon. This is before Piper switched to gear made by Parker Hannifin.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the Gar Canyon landing gear is a really fascinating engineering trade-off. Oh sorry. Well, it's a much simpler, significantly lighter hydraulic system than the later versions. And in aviation, you know, shedding weight directly translates to a higher useful payload and better overall efficiency.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Lighter is always better.

SPEAKER_00

Usually, yeah. But the engineering flaw, and the reason it generated so many complaints that Piper eventually abandoned it, is that it requires absolute perfection from the pilot upon landing.

SPEAKER_01

Because the nose gear is notoriously fragile.

SPEAKER_00

Highly fragile. It's incredibly sensitive to side loads.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So the over center locking mechanism on that Gark Canyon gear, it's just not robust enough to handle lateral forces. If a pilot lands with even a slight crab angle, meaning the nose isn't perfectly dead center aligned with the runway, the lateral pressure can override the locking strut.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00

And the nose gear will simply collapse inward, just dropping the propeller straight into the tarmac.

SPEAKER_01

Which is an incredibly expensive and just terrifying mistake.

SPEAKER_00

Totally.

SPEAKER_01

But think about the implications of that for a second. You are looking at a 30-year-old airplane. The fact that this specific machine survived three decades without some pilot clumsily folding the nose gear is kind of a miracle.

SPEAKER_00

It really is.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, most machines with that kind of punishing mechanical quirk would have been wrecked or scrapped long ago.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But to a pilot like Paul or Bernie before him, that fragility isn't really viewed as a defect.

SPEAKER_01

No.

SPEAKER_00

No, it's viewed as a demand for human mastery. Ultimate efficiency in this aircraft requires a highly skilled, sympathetic touch. The machine essentially forces the pilot to be better.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. And that demand for absolute finesse, it translates directly into the cockpit experience too.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, everywhere.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because the source material actually takes us on a flight with Paul, departing from Mesquite and heading to Dallas Executive, which means they're navigating through Class Bravo Airspace. Right. And for anyone listening who's unfamiliar, Class Bravo is this highly regulated, invisible, kind of upside-down wedding cake of airspace that surrounds major international hubs like Dallas Fort Worth.

SPEAKER_00

Very busy airspace.

SPEAKER_01

Very. It is swarming with commercial jets, air traffic control is barking rapid fire instructions, and the workload on the pilot is just immense.

SPEAKER_00

And operating a complex analog machine in that kind of high stress environment, it requires profound intimacy with the aircraft's quokes.

SPEAKER_01

And the quaks in this Malibu are spectacular. I mean, let's look at the propeller for a second.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

It's an MT four-blade composite wood prop coated in an epoxy wrap with a nickel leading edge.

SPEAKER_00

A wood prop.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And because it's wood, it is incredibly lightweight and it absorbs vibration beautifully. During one of their audition flights, Bernie actually performed a demonstration where he balanced a physical nickel on the control yoke mid-flight.

SPEAKER_00

No way.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. He cycled the engine through various power settings, and for ten minutes that nickel never tipped over. The engine and prop are balanced that flawlessly.

SPEAKER_00

That is amazing. But you know, that perfectly smooth operation sits in stark contrast to some of the more uh violent physical demands of that cockpit.

SPEAKER_01

Like the gear retraction lever, which I can honestly only describe as the knucklebreaker.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell That's a good name for it.

SPEAKER_01

So during takeoff, Paul and his co-pilot are running through their calls. They hit 70 knots, checking the main panel to ensure there are no enunciator warning lights, you know, making sure the master warning system is clear of any emergencies. Right. Then at 80 knots, they rotate, pulling back on the yoke to lift the nose into the air.

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Powell And this is where the physical reality of that hydraulic system really asserts itself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because the gear lever isn't some polite little electronic toggle switch.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It is a physical handle that actuates a manual hydraulic mouth. Right. When you release the gear to drop, the massive hydraulic pressure in the system causes that metal lever to violently snap downward into its resting position.

SPEAKER_00

Violently.

SPEAKER_01

Very. Paul explicitly warns the copilot: when you operate that lever, you must grab it underhanded.

SPEAKER_00

Underhanded, right. Because an overhand grip places your knuckles directly in the downward arc of that lever snapping back.

SPEAKER_01

Which sounds awful.

SPEAKER_00

It is. The physical force of the hydraulic pressure returning that handle will literally break your hand.

SPEAKER_01

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. An underhand grip keeps your fingers safely out of the danger zone.

SPEAKER_01

It is a literal visceral mechanical threat right there on the instrument panel.

SPEAKER_00

It really is.

SPEAKER_01

And that blend of raw mechanics and modern necessity, it's just everywhere in this plane. Take the heat, for example.

SPEAKER_00

Texas heat.

SPEAKER_01

Right. It's a blistering hundred degrees outside. Paul explains that if they do not run the air conditioning, the heat trap behind the instrument panel will bake the autopilot system at 130 degrees until the computer just simply fails.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. And you know, Paul's choices regarding those avionics reveal a lot about his philosophy as a caretaker, too. How so? Well, many pilots who are modernizing an older aircraft, they'll just rip the entire panel apart to install a massive integrated G1000 glass screen.

SPEAKER_01

Right, make it look like an iPad.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. Yeah. They view it as the ultimate upgrade.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But Paul went a completely different route. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

He chose a modular setup, right. Primarily using the Garmin GTN 750 and 650 touchscreens. Yeah. It's kind of like owning a beautifully maintained vintage car and choosing to slide a modern stereo into the existing dash rather than ripping out the entire dashboard to mount a huge TV screen.

SPEAKER_00

It's a highly pragmatic choice. Because with a massive integrated glass panel, if a single internal component fails, the entire unit often has to be removed for this catastrophic, incredibly expensive repair.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

But with Paul's modular setup, if the 650 unit fails, you just slide it out of its tray and slide a replacement in. Easy. Exactly. The rest of the panel remains fully operational, so it's an architecture designed for long-term survival, not just flashy aesthetics.

SPEAKER_01

And he extends that survival mindset to the exterior of the plane as well.

SPEAKER_00

He does.

SPEAKER_01

As a traveling aircraft, you know, you're inevitably going to encounter instrument flight rules conditions, meaning flying blind through clouds, which means you will eventually encounter icing.

SPEAKER_00

Dangerous stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Very. And early versions of this plane just had a small heated glass plate sitting right in front of the pilot's face. But Paul's plane has been upgraded with an expensive heated windshield on the pilot side, and it actually utilizes pneumatic de-ice boots.

SPEAKER_00

And for anyone uninitiated, those are the thick rubber linings you sometimes see on the leading edges of aircraft wings.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the black strip.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. When ice begins to accumulate, the pilot activates the system, and those rubber boots physically inflate with air. They expand outward to physically crack the ice and allow the wind to blow it away.

SPEAKER_01

It's just another highly mechanical, tactile solution to a deadly problem.

SPEAKER_00

It is.

SPEAKER_01

And you see that same deliberate physical care when they finally arrive at Dallas Executive. They are flying the traffic pattern, making their downwind leg, which means flying parallel to the runway in the opposite direction of landing, sitting right at 110 knots.

SPEAKER_00

And as they turn and align with the runway, setting up their final approach, the technique becomes absolutely critical.

SPEAKER_01

Right, because of that fragile gear. So they cross the numbers, literally flying over the painted threshold numbers at the start of the runway at 85 to 90 knots.

SPEAKER_00

Perfect speed.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And Paul talks the copilot through the exact physical motion required. You don't aggressively pull back and flare the nose high into the air the way you would in that old Cessno 182 he flew as a kid.

SPEAKER_00

No, no flare.

SPEAKER_01

Right. You hold the plane off the runway, letting the speed just sort of bleed away, and you allow it to settle gently onto the tarmac.

SPEAKER_00

Because you are partnering with the aerodynamics to ensure that fragile Garcanyan nose gear touches down with zero lateral stress.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

You do not force the machine, you guide it.

SPEAKER_01

And the ultimate payoff for all this demanding, highly specific piloting, you know, navigating the stress of class Bravo airspace, dodging broken knuckles, and nursing a delicate nose gear to the ground.

SPEAKER_00

Let me guess.

SPEAKER_01

Securing the legendary $100 hamburger at the airport terminal restaurant.

SPEAKER_00

Ah, of course.

SPEAKER_01

Which in this particular instance actually turned out to be a pork slider. But you know, the food is beside the point. It's really just an excuse to get up in the air and operate the machine, right?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, completely. The destination is entirely secondary. The act of perfect operation is the real reward.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And when we zoom in on this one specific 1986 and a half Piper Malibu, we just uncover this incredible narrative of human machine symbiosis.

SPEAKER_00

We really do.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, we started with an eight-year-old boy learning the raw utility of an aircraft while hauling bodies in South Texas. We watched an 80-year-old veteran pilot enforce a multi-state audition to find the perfect custodian for his legacy. Yeah. And we ended up in a cockpit that requires the pilot to balance the delicate aerodynamics of a fragile landing gear with the violent hydraulic snap of a knuckle-breaking lever. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00

It's a profound story of mechanical stewardship. But you know, observing this level of dedication does raise a lingering and I think rather provocative question.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. Think about Bernie, right? He had to surrender his beloved airplane at 80 years old because the physical demands of single pilot operation finally exceeded his capabilities, the machine, perfectly maintained, outlasted the human. So as these complex, highly analog, deeply demanding machines continue to age, what happens when the current generation of dedicated, mechanically sympathetic caretakers ages out of the cockpit alongside them?

SPEAKER_00

That's the question. Will the next generation of pilots, who by the way, are being trained almost exclusively on digital glass screens, highly automated flight management systems, and just really simplified, robust controls, will they have the patience or even the desire to learn the unique punishing quirks of a 1986.5 hybrid?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Or will the demand for that sheer, raw human finesse slowly disappear from the skies entirely, leaving these beautiful machines without any custodians?

SPEAKER_01

Can the digital generation handle the knucklebreaker?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

It is a fascinating question to leave you with. Thank you for joining us on this deep dive. Keep looking closely at the world around you and keep questioning the incredible hidden stories behind the everyday machines we just take for granted. Because sometimes understanding the intricate details of one single deeply loved tree tells you a lot more than just looking at the entire forest.