Pledge Class

Drunk & Disorderly

• Alex R. and RC

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0:00 | 1:12:16

Welcome back to another episode of Pledge Class. This time we have Alex's sponsor, Traver, on to tell his story. Some heartfelt moments and fun jokes included.

SPEAKER_02

Welcome to another episode of Pledge Class. My name is RC and I'm an alcoholic. With me today, I got my co-host Alex. What's up, dude? Alex, alcoholic. What's going on? So, what's up? It's been a minute. It's been a minute. I know, dude. You've been gacking. I've been slacking, dude. Yeah. You've just been like traveling the world, seeing better sites. It's alright. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we you were missed, you know? You were missed. Um, and then with us today is a special guest, uh Traver. What's up, man?

SPEAKER_01

What's going on, guys? Traver, alcoholic. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, dude. How's it? How's it going? How are you doing?

SPEAKER_01

It's going good. It's going good. We are we gonna talk some uh talk some sports today? What what sport do you want to talk about? This is a sports podcast, right? No. I like ball.

SPEAKER_02

Um, no, no. I mean, uh, like, yeah, I mean, we could uh we could do sports talk sports talk.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna have to rethink my whole plan. I was like ready to get into NFL offseason and stuff. Okay, gotta realign.

SPEAKER_04

Dude, I am so hyped for football season to start, dude. It's not even funny, bro.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_04

Like, I feel like I've just been like naked like for the last couple of months. Without sports? Dude, without sports. It's like Sunday, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Like, well, you got the World Cup right now.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Does that count?

SPEAKER_04

You like soccer, dude? Soccer's kind of soft. Kicking the ball, all right? Sorry, guys. It's like I like I'll watch the World Cup, but it's like I don't watch the other leagues, you know. Like I don't know all these players like going on. Like, um, I take that back. Soccer's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like I'm I'm the typical American. Every four years, I'm like the biggest soccer fan. And then the World Cup ends and I like for forget about it.

SPEAKER_02

You see, like, I feel like even in America, it's like, yeah, people will watch it for the World Cup, but it's like not it's not nearly as popular as something like football or basketball, right? So it's usually the people that like are from like different countries that get hyped up in America about it.

SPEAKER_04

Or people that like play soccer and they and they like follow the different leagues, yeah, you know, like the leagues in Europe and stuff, and like even like our ours is what what is ours called? It's MMS, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, dude, you know what's you know what's funny? I actually met a professional soccer player um and one of my church groups that I used to go to. What? And she uh she did she played in the women's league, of course, and so she would get me like free tickets to go see them play, right? In the women's league, in the women's league. There's like 10 people in the stand.

SPEAKER_04

She's like, there's 25 free people. I mean, they mean even in the male league, I feel like there'd be no one in the stand.

SPEAKER_02

Unless Messi's unless Messi's playing. I mean, does he even play in the American League? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01

He's in my he's on Miami. He yeah, I think he just this like his first year, he was playing for the Miami MLS team. Yeah. But what I will say is like I think that the World Cup is smart because they put it in June when there's like no basketball or football to compete with. You know what I mean? So like we all have lots of bandwidth, like sports bandwidth to spend on World Cup.

SPEAKER_02

Right. That makes sense. Yeah. Like there's that doesn't compete without the other thing. Exactly. Um, but anyway, dude, so I actually um so Traver is Alex's sponsor, right?

SPEAKER_04

So thankfully.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, so like, so like you should like talk shit about him, you know, since not while he's here. Like of this guy, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Especially when he wasn't there for my anniversary. I was there. I was there. I was there.

SPEAKER_04

Your anniversary was this Thursday? Yeah. What was going on this Thursday? I don't know. We went to a meeting, picked up a chip.

SPEAKER_02

We went to bubblegum shrimp. You weren't there? I didn't know. It sounds like you're a badge ponchie.

SPEAKER_04

I didn't get the invite. Wait, did that happen this past Thursday? Yeah. Oh, dang. Oh, wait, I was out of town. Uh-huh. Yeah. So these two I was out of town.

SPEAKER_01

We met on Tuesday and I told you about it. Yeah, but you're out of town.

SPEAKER_02

So you have what you didn't write or nothing? Yeah. No call? No tags? Like, thanks for being such an amazing sponsor. Happy anniversary. Nothing. I'm gonna kill myself.

SPEAKER_04

Well, dang, do we how how many years do you have?

SPEAKER_01

Uh that was seven years. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Dang, that's crazy. It's pretty sick, right? Seven years. Yeah. And Keegan uh gave him the medallion at the meeting. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04

What meeting do you guys go to? The the YPG. Oh, like they went upstairs. Uh no. Is it downstairs? It is downstairs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The only time they do it upstairs if there's like something going on at the church, but otherwise it's usually downstairs still.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, okay. Yeah. It's the one like that's on Saturdays and two. Yeah. Yeah. The same place. Congrats.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. You know, and I feel like it's not it's not quite like the the same uh is like, you know, when I feel like especially early on, even like before you're picking up like 30 days or six months or something. Oh yeah. Like getting that chip. Like I mean, I couldn't imagine uh going like four hours without drinking. Right. You know what I mean? So to like go 30 straight days, like 30 days and nights eating and drink. Oh my god. So I feel like you know, you you just one day at a time kind of get through that early part, man. And then you start seeing your life get a lot better, and then uh you know, life's not always perfect, but it definitely in my experience has gotten a lot better. So it makes it a lot easier to keep it going.

SPEAKER_02

Do you feel do you feel one year better off than you were last year? I don't know. That's a good question. That is a good question.

SPEAKER_01

I don't not necessarily. And I don't think that it's so I don't think that it's um quite linear like that. You know what I mean? Like I feel like, you know, we have it's more like riding a wave. You know what I mean? And then it's like having opportunities to like sponsor people like Alex, and like, you know, that keeps me sober too, and gets me more in the middle of the boat and uh it gets me back into the literature, you know. And so it's like, you know, there's times where when maybe we're kind of coasting a little bit. And like life is still fine, you know what I mean? Like I can coast for a while and and you know, it'd still be fine, but I might be a little more irritable or I might like react poorly where I wouldn't have in a certain situation. Um might take like an extra minute or two to like apologize and like see my part and stuff like that, you know.

SPEAKER_02

So I mean Are you able to move the mic a little closer to you?

SPEAKER_01

Is that better?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, a little better. Okay. I don't it's great stuff. I don't want them to miss out on your on your on your good stuff. So um well, that's cool, man. You know, seven years is like, you know, that that's it's it's impressive, you know. It's it's not nothing like um, you know, it's more than me. So, you know, anything that's more than me is gonna be impressive.

SPEAKER_01

I'll I'll never let you forget it again.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and and when I when I reach like constantly RC just has like a banger of a chair. Like it's a reminder I have more time.

SPEAKER_02

I'm still better than you. Yeah, but it's like once I reach seven years, it's not gonna be impressive anymore because I hit it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um well, and I think I I shared this with RC uh the other day. I have a very unique take. Um, someone was like, seven years, wow, seven, that's a big number. And I was like, you know why seven, you know, people are like, oh, seven heaven, like that's such a good number. And I was like, no, I like the number seven because it's kind of shaped like a medieval weapon, like a scythe or something. This is so random, you know. Seven, I think is really cool, so that's why I've always liked the number seven.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. Maybe you should just stick at seven, you know? Hell no. Don't move on to eight.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think that's possible. I need to stay at seven. Please don't stick at seven. That's a cool number. If I stayed at seven, I would never turn 40 years old. True. Whoa. Are you about to be 40? Yeah, I'll turn 40 this summer.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys can't see Traver, but he does not look 40 at all. Well, thank you, good sir. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I don't feel it either.

SPEAKER_02

You don't feel it in your bones?

SPEAKER_01

No, I don't feel it in my bones yet. But thank God we live in, you know, Florida where it's like warm. You know, maybe if uh you wake up and you gotta go take the dog out on like the cold morning walk, maybe I'd feel 39 a little bit more in my bones.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, the the heat definitely keeps the joints loose, you know. Yeah. So yeah, man. So it's like that's a big milestone. And then like, you know, it's it's so cool that I can like you know, was able to show up and be a part of it, you know. Um to be to be there, you know. That's that's what the program's for, right? To to be there and support each other. Um, so when when was your sobriety day? When was that?

SPEAKER_01

Sobriety day is uh June 25th, 2019. Damn. Pre-COVID, dude. Pre-COVID. Yeah. You're a legend. What was it like? What was it like before COVID, dad? Grandpa?

SPEAKER_02

Do you think the rooms changed prior like pre-COVID to post-COVID? Do you think the rooms changed like in any significant way?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I feel like they're the same. Well, I I'll I'll tell you this. I think a lot of the old timers stopped going to in-person meetings, like during COVID, and then they never came back. Really? Yeah. So there might be less so they're stuck on Zoom? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Okay. Or maybe they just didn't come back at all.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, or maybe they didn't come back at all. But yeah, I know a lot of people a lot of old timers, you know, that are, you know, like high risk and stuff, like high health risk for like being around COVID. You know what I mean? So they started attending Zoom meetings and then, you know, I mean, I don't know. Everyone, I say this all the time, but everyone's program is different, and whatever works for someone works for them. Like me personally, I need in-person meetings. Like I need that, I need that human connection. Um, but yeah, I mean, to each his own.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, we don't need those old timers anyway. You know, we can just bug off, yeah. Bug off, old man. Oh man, we don't need to anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Maybe they passed away.

SPEAKER_01

Oh dang, this just got dark.

SPEAKER_04

I'll never forget though, dude, because my first um, you know, bout of sobriety was actually in 2020 during COVID. And I'll never forget, like, go in a meeting, so then like the sp the chairs were spaced out. Yeah, and then I I dude, that's all I knew. Yeah, and guys would come up to me and say, like, hey man, like just to let you know, it's not usually like this. Like, we like we used to get coffee together and like go out bowling. And I was like, really? Like, and I was and they were like, Yeah, man, like so uh it's gotta be hard to get sober that way. It was uh well, I didn't know any better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you know, and and I was desperate, so it was bad is bad enough.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and I was like, I guess this is just what it is, you know.

SPEAKER_02

I I didn't know what it you I mean when I f my first meeting was on Zoom, like very first one, and it's like I went to a few of them, and then I finally, after like a few weeks, like I got the opportunity to go to an in-person meeting, and like after that, I pretty much stopped going to the Zoom meetings because it's like I didn't really care about getting sick, like I much preferred the in-person, so you know it's like um COVID's fake, and then there's like there's like the mask wars, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Oh dude, this is gonna get like banned off Spotify, by the way.

SPEAKER_04

Dude, if we want to talk about COVID, we gotta get Stevie out here. Stevie? Stevie, if you're listening, bro. Stevie's got something. Does he have a hot take on it? Dude, Stevie has like fire intake on COVID. I'm not gonna spoil it. Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, but do we even look for that like on like an episode on podcast? Yeah, we do. Do we?

SPEAKER_03

Stevie talking about COVID conspiracy for four hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We're gonna get you guys are gonna get canceled by the like uh uh intellectual elite left. Yeah, exactly. Like this is misinformation. Your podcast is gonna be like branded. It's gonna have a little like a warning sign.

SPEAKER_02

It's like mis, like like fake news, misinformation, you know. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01

Uh going back to first meetings. I was gonna ask you guys, did you guys cry in your first meeting? Like your first-why would I cry at my first meeting? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02

I I I cried right before.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man, I went in.

SPEAKER_02

Well, like what prompt what what what prompted you to cry?

SPEAKER_01

Um, it was the first time that I said out loud to anybody, like, I'm a piece of shit. Like saying it out loud, you know what I mean? Because I lied to myself until I got into that meeting. Yeah, and then it just like came out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, actually, now that you say that, it wasn't my first meeting, but I remember I did a Zoom meeting. It was called like a it's like a back black belt meeting. I don't know if you're familiar with that at all. Uh-huh. So it's like basically it's like a commitment meeting where it's just all men, and so you show up and you make a commitment to like say go to like X number of meetings a week, meet with your sponsor, and then pretty much any other commitment that you want to commit yourself to the group for. That's great accountability. Yeah, they would hold you accountable. Yeah. And like it was my first time at this meeting, and it was all on Zoom. And I was like the first share, and I was just talking about like I was fucking like bitching, like like the whole time, just like this fucking sucks. Like, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. Like, I'm miserable, like I I'm in constant pain. Like, like, I and I'm just crying, I'm crying on the screen. And literally every single person after me that shared, like, addressed me directly, and they gave me sympathy and they gave me like hope, and they tried to encourage me. And they talked about how like it took them back, right, to when they first came into the rooms and how much like how appreciative of me to like to bring that back to them, like to remind them, right, of how bad it was, you know. And I and so I walked away from that, like feeling like very encouraged, right? Yeah, like I'm not alone. Yeah, exactly. Like, oh, these guys like they give a fuck about me, and they they're expressing like you know, um, they're expressing like they want to help me, right? They're expressing an arm towards me. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um people can't see, but I'm just like nodding my head like that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. So um I didn't end up staying with that meeting forever. I I don't like people telling me how to work my program, you know. That's like that's like all of us. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You prefer the it's suggestive only take that's how we getcha.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It's like you can't tell me how to work my program, you know. Um, but no, they were awesome. Like, and there's such great sobriety in that room, you know. Um, but yeah, I you know, because since you're our guest, right? Like we want you to, you know, opportunity to tell your story. Um, and so why don't we why don't you take us back? Like whatever whatever stage you want to start at, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Um, I'll do kind of like uh uh an abridged version. How about that?

SPEAKER_04

I mean, we can do whatever you want. And maybe we have time, dude. I mean, we have time, but it's also nice to have discussion too.

SPEAKER_02

So whatever you want to do.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um, well, I mean, like I uh um I don't know. Like I, you know, in high school and stuff, like I I partied on the weekends, um, and it was never like a big deal. Like, you know what I mean? Like I didn't I don't feel like the alcoholism had really like taken its roots at that point. Um and you know, just like a uh a warning or whatever, I know this is AA, but like my story has a lot of drugs in it too. Sure. Um but yeah, so uh, you know, so I just I don't know. I just drank like normal in high school and um you know I I was just saying this to uh Alexa the other night, but like I I don't know. I lose Alexa? Alexa is my fiance. Oh, beautiful. Uh yes, yes. Uh we're getting married in October, so super excited. Congratulations. Yeah, thanks, man. Um, yeah, we'll circle around back to that because I'm like just starting to gain my life.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you gotta shout her out for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, I'm supposed to. She said you have to shout me out. She said, And you had to prompt me to. Yeah, oh man. Now you're not gonna hear now you're gonna re-record this. We're gonna have to restart, and then the first thing that I say is, I love you, Alexa. Because I do, I really do. So, um, you know, so uh yeah, I don't know. Uh drank casually in high school. Um, and then uh, you know, a lot of the like older kids that I looked up to um took like took Vicadins and stuff, like pain pills that they would find in their like um parents' medicine cabinets. Okay. And uh, you know, I mean they were like gods to me. You know what I mean? Like the cool older kids are like two years older than you. I'm like, you know, if they're doing it, it's gotta be like the thing to do.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And uh so you know, I started like casually taking opiates like pills in high school. Casually, yeah, and and it really was casually at that time. You know what else is crazy? Believe it or not.

SPEAKER_04

Chat was like 14 years old, casually bombing taking blankets.

SPEAKER_01

Little did I know that I might as well have been shooting heroin, but yeah, it felt like you know, it's a prescription medication that you know Mrs. Smith takes. Like, how bad could it be? Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

Um that's one way to perceive that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, well, here's the other thing, too. This is in like circa 2002, like 2003. It's like before the opioid crisis, like before it was all over like nightly news and stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and so yeah, so I don't know. So I just did that uh for a little while, and then I remember somebody, I won't say his last name, but his first name was Jeff. My friend Jeff showed me that you could um smash an oxy and snort it, and then I was kind of just off to the races.

SPEAKER_02

That's the best way to consume drugs is through the through the nose. Through the nose. Yeah, in my opinion. Yeah. There's a lot of options. There is, there is. But I've I liked it because it was so degenerate. Ah, you know, it's like I'm snorting something, like this is so degenerate, and you get like satisfaction from that.

SPEAKER_01

Cooking something in a spoon, like you could get more degenerate if you cooked the RC. It was just my prep. But it was like that's hella degenerate. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Or like, or like shooting it up is hella degenerate. But it's just like to me, like snorting it was like a fun degenerate. Yeah, you know, so anyway.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, yeah, and you could like it was like this, like it felt so cool at the time to like smash one up on the uh table at Jack in the Box, you know what I mean, and just like look around and like and like do a line. I just thought that I was so cool, you know, like doing drugs off the table in Jack in the Box, and I thought I was cool.

unknown

I thought I was cool.

SPEAKER_01

And uh so, you know, so yeah, so then um I was off to the races. That led to um to a lot of opiate use. And that like pretty much took up my whole 20s. Um by the time I was 27, I was like, uh I was like finally done with it. I was like, you know, I'm I'm I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna do it the right way. So I, you know, I deleted all my drug dealers' numbers, I packed everything into my Honda, and me and my dog drove to the opposite corner of the country, went from Washington State to Florida. And uh you know, it was just like I'm gonna like start over. Um found a cool little place right like a block away from the ocean.

SPEAKER_02

So how long were you using until you made that specific?

SPEAKER_01

Well, uh that was 27, so like pretty much for like nine years. Okay from like 18 to 27. Okay. It was just opiate city.

SPEAKER_02

Why did you decide to do that? Like, why did you decide to like what what prompted you to want to change that sort of behavior?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, uh well, I mean, you know, the the life of an opiate addict, it's so funny because I mean I'll get into my story more about like the the alcohol, like the bottoms of my alcohol drinking.

SPEAKER_02

We don't care like whether your discussion is on alcohol or drugs, like well, it's just fun, it's different though.

SPEAKER_01

Like they're totally different bottoms, you know what I mean? Like I don't know, like alcohol is fucking legal, like they sell it in the stores, you know what I mean? So like for one, it's more socially acceptable. It's probably cheaper, it's cheaper, yeah, it's a constant supply, like it's always there at the store for 99 cents. You can get, you know, like some really nasty malt liquor or something. Uh, you know, with like opiates, it's not like that. Like it's it's gonna it's gonna take everything that you got financially. Um and uh yeah, I don't know. It's just uh, you know, I mean it's like I was a slave to it. You know what I mean? Like both mentally and physically. Like I would physically uh start getting like dope sick if I didn't, you know, have like my shot at dope. So that was kind of like the way that that's like the first thing. That you have to worry about in the morning, and it's the last thing I have to worry about before going to bed is like, Am I gonna be well? And it's like not even like high anymore. After you've been a dope fiend for a while, you're like, I just gotta get well.

SPEAKER_02

So, like, you don't even enjoy it at that point.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like just to get back to zero. Okay, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like you are just like a slave, and you're literally like your morals or anything are gone. Anything that you own is gone. Anyone you care about is gone. It's like your husk of a person. Just to get well. Yeah. Not even though I get high. Yeah. It's to get well. That's that's rough. So yeah, so I did that for nine years, which is probably longer than most people would be willing to put up with that.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I couldn't say personally, like I can't relate personally, but more than a like a normal, like a normie, you know, quote unquote, like a rational person would never be able to understand how you could keep doing that to yourself for nine years. Sure. So um, but it gets better. It gets better. Oh boy. So so then I move all the way across the country. I moved to Florida. This is Jackson Jackson? I moved to St. Augustine Beach. Oh, to St. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah. Nice. And uh, and I found a awesome little spot. Um I was looking for, you know, I was still 27, I was still a young man, you know. I saw I was looking for like a lively place, and you know, Flagler University is in in St. Augustine, and the um the rental that I found was like right in between two beach bars, and I check it out, and there's like a girl in a bikini goes skateboarding by, and I just knew I was like, I am at home. Like this looks like the place that I want to live, you know? Yeah, and uh it started off like um uh um what's the word? Like family friendly, you know? It's like a very wholesome environment. Yeah, wholesome, yeah. It started off my time in Florida started off wholesome enough, you know. Like I was like doing yoga and like trying to get into beach shape and um was gonna just like hang out at the beach and golf all the time. Um and then uh I didn't know anybody, so like I went to the bars, but it wasn't like really to get like to change the way I feel at that at first. It was to like try to meet people and stuff, you know. Um but I did meet people and guess I met the wrong people. Yeah, you know, I met people that uh that like to party, and I was like, you know what, I like to party too. And I felt like as long as I'm not doing opiates, like I can do anything, like I can do whatever I want because I'm not doing opiates, you know. Um, so I started going to the bar like pretty much every night. Uh started like doing blow, you know, and I'm like, it's not heroin, so it's it's all good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, how we justify it, right? Yeah, it's not it's not the worst thing, so it can't be bad for me, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01

And yeah, so you know, it started off, you know, what seemed like just like social drinking, and it got much, much worse. Uh so just so I don't forget to say later, I just want to say that's like the lesson that I learned that just like switching, you know, like the drug, just because you never had a problem with alcohol or or benzos or like the other thing, and like like I learned that I can't just substitute it for another substance, you know. Like I can't do anything, I can't shoot heroin responsibly, I can't drink responsibly.

SPEAKER_02

You know, well it's hard to shoot heroin responsibly. I haven't tried, but you know, I imagine it'd be challenging.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can't say I genuinely tried to do it responsibly.

SPEAKER_02

You know, at that point you're kind of too, you're already past the line. Yeah, you're in deep. You're in deep, bruh.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so so I started just like going to the bars, but it was like just for fun, you know. And then um, you know, I've always had kind of like uh um like a weird anxiety feeling. And when I started working, I got a job as a um as a server, uh like a waiter in a restaurant. And um just like walking, you know, like walking in like the open spaces and like carrying trays and stuff, like my anxiety would like really bother me. But if I took like a drink or two before my shift, it's like I could do it no problem. You know, it was like, oh, I found the cure to my anxiety. Um and you know, so then uh for the next few years, that became like a just a slow and steady downturn where I just continued to rely on the alcohol more and more um to to cope with my anxiety. Um was it like a daily thing? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean and I didn't realize that, like I knew that I thought that that was just a bonus that it helped with my anxiety. Like I I was drinking, you know, because it was fun too. You know what I mean? Like it was fun until it wasn't. Um but the fact that it helped with my anxiety was just kind of a bonus.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Um but that just that continued, you know, and continued and um you know, like getting towards the end of it, uh oh well, so that's the thing, is it's like each time that I took a drink to deal with the anxiety, it worked. But then the underlying issue, my underlying anxiety got a little bit worse. So then the next time I had to drink a little bit more. Drink more, yeah. And then the anxiety got a little worse still. And it was just like a nasty cycle that just led to me drinking more and more and my anxiety getting worse and worse. And like I liken it to um trying to put like a band-aid on an infected wound. Yeah, you know, like that's not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_02

But it's like each time you put on the band-aid and took it off, it got worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like there's just something festering under there, and putting a band-aid on is not gonna solve it, you know. So um, you know, I did that for uh like five years, I think is about how long I was able to stay like drinking until until it like took me all the way to like my bottom. Um, and then it was just, you know, it was just like a perfect, a perfect circle of like bad stuff had to happen in my life, and you know, I had to be miserable enough. And uh um I had found a job that didn't care if I how drunk I was, you know, like they did not give a shit. Really? Like, yeah. But what what job was it? I was making sandwiches in a gas station. Oh, perfect. Yeah, like they were okay with me doing that drunk, like of course as long as the sandwich is in the bag, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

As long as you make the sandwiches, you don't even need to talk to anybody, really.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, yeah, and uh so you know they didn't care that I like brought a yeti of whiskey and ginger ale with me to work, and like every time it was like slow in between customers, I'd go out to my car and like slug on my 32 ounce of whiskey and ginger ale. Yeah, and uh so I mean that wasn't I wasn't gonna lose a job, so I wasn't gonna become like destitute, you know what I mean? Like I was on my way to drinking myself to death. Um, and uh, and just like the perfect storm happened. Like I this sounds hard to believe, but I always wore my seatbelt, you know. But the person I'm describing doesn't sound like a responsible person that always puts their seatbelt on.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

But it was just like a habit. Like when I got in the car, my seatbelt went on. Somehow on my way to work this one day, um I I like didn't put my seatbelt on. I don't know. And so it's 11 a.m. I'm drunk because I'm drunk around the clock at this time, you know, at my bottom. And um, I'm on my way to work and I got I get pulled over for not wearing my seatbelt. Ooh. And uh and the cop uh is come comes walking up to my car and he's like, hey, do you know why? He's like still like five feet away from my car, and he starts talking to me. Do you know why? Jesus, man, you've been drinking. Oh my god. Like the fumes hit him like a like a brick.

SPEAKER_03

Like a wave just came over the wall.

SPEAKER_04

I don't care about the seat, bell. He's gonna get the hell out of the car.

SPEAKER_01

You know what my response was?

SPEAKER_04

What? Uh no.

SPEAKER_01

Uh I drank a little last night. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

Did he believe you? He did not believe me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So um, yeah, shocker. I I don't know how it took so long because I was driving, I was drunk around the clock. So anytime I drove anywhere, I was driving drunk. I'd gotten pulled over a few times before that too, drunk, and like didn't get a DUI. But man, this was my time. And uh, you know, it's one of those things where it's like the what feels like the worst thing that could have happened to you, you know, ends up being the best thing that could have happened to you. Because um I would have drank myself to death like had I not had that like intervention by the law, that that legal intervention. And um uh I went to so he took me to jail. I went to jail and I had actually I had violated probation. Um, so I wasn't able to get just like bailed out, you know, like I would you were on probation before this? Yeah, I was on probation for what? Yeah, for what cocaine possession controlled substance. Yeah, that's a felony. That's a felony which which I didn't like do any jail time for. Like I the attorney got me off, and it was just it was gonna be like no problem, you know, uh, if I could just do my probation.

SPEAKER_04

Sure. Um wait, so how did you get caught with with the coke?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I mean it's I don't even remember. I was at a bar probably doing some coke in the car. Uh you know what I mean? And a cop came up and was like, what are you doing? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Sounds like he's snooping where he shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01

Put his nose where it don't belong.

SPEAKER_02

Like, I'm in my car, bro. Leave me alone. This is America.

SPEAKER_01

You know, so so yeah, so I was on probation and like thank God I was, because if I had just gotten bailed out, you know, like I would have uh done it again. I would have done it again, man. You know, nothing would have changed. Um me and my oh, I got married and I was married at the time. Uh so but we were like not doing well, you know. Um and so then, you know, I go, so I go to jail and I started going through the the my withdrawal in um in jail. And like, you know, going through like uh going through the opiate withdrawals, like I thought that that sucked. It was nothing compared to the alcohol and withdrawals that I went through. Yeah. Like delirium tremors, you know. I you're freaking out, dude. I was freaking out. Yeah. I know I told you this story, but I thought that I thought that I had gotten arrested by the sheriff, and I thought that the sheriff passed the normal jail and went to his like dungeon torture jail. Like this guy's sick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like all sheriffs have dungeon torture jails.

SPEAKER_01

No, like this is a bad sheriff.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, like this one.

SPEAKER_01

This particular sheriff is a really bad guy. Um, so he had a separate torture.

SPEAKER_02

Did you know the sheriff? Like, no. You just thought this this he would this guy for some reason. I manifested this sheriff. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, this is the fuck I got the bad one. I got the fucking sheriff. Oh my god. Uh I was like, I just remember, you know, it's so weird. You have like these tiny little memories, like in the middle of like uh in the middle of delirium tremors that you can like, oh my god, I was I mean, I was going through like full-on uh psychosis, you know, and like I remember just like screaming out from my cell, like, you don't know what they're doing to you don't know what they're going to do. Please, you've gotta help me. And like this nurse, this poor nurse was like trying to give me some Atavan or something for my DTs, you know, and she's like, You need to take this. And I was like, It's it's poison. You're trying to poison me. Yeah. And uh I mean, you know what?

SPEAKER_02

That makes me think of like, you know, like the movie clips where you see like the crazy person like screaming from the jail cell. That's Travor. That was Traver. That was dude.

SPEAKER_01

And I remember one guy going, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_04

It's like two A. Traver's like, oh my god, I'm about to get like my fingers dropped off. You know, and everyone's just like, bro, like I'm trying to go to sleep.

SPEAKER_01

Like the movie's taw. I thought that I was like in the movie's taw, like that I was just gonna get tortured with death. Yeah. And so this poor nurse is trying to get me to take this medicine, and she's like, if you don't take it, we're gonna force you to take it. And I'm like, okay. And when she went to hand to me, I just smacked it out of her hand.

SPEAKER_02

Trying to poison me down.

SPEAKER_01

And uh, like 10 minutes later, I got body slammed by like a 300-pound CO. He just like took me to the ground, he opened the jail cell and then attacked.

SPEAKER_02

Damn.

SPEAKER_01

And just slammed me down and they shot me up with Ataban. And then I think I slept for like three days. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah. Um, so that was really unpleasant. Like, I literally came to terms with death. I was like, I've accepted death, like, just let it happen. Stop torturing me. Um, so like that's like a special kind of bottom, you know, that I got to experience. Um, so you know Was that the bottom? No, alone that was not the bottom. Okay, but that's a contributor.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

So then, you know, like I said, I I was no no bail. Uh, so I ended up I had to stay there for four months. Um yeah, that's a long ass time. Yeah, and that was like a moment too where it's like, um, I had been to jail a bunch of times, just like for the weekend. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's just like, oh, boys will be boys, you know. But I went like come on. Lots of people just happen to hang out in jail, you know. Lots of people go to jail for the weekend, like, oh, I had a few too many, and I went to jail for the weekend. Like, oops. Um but going, come on. But going in front of a judge and being like, you're remanded for you know 120 days. Uh-huh. Uh, I was like, and the gavel hits. Yeah. You know, and I was like, I'm like a menace to society. I'm not allowed out there.

SPEAKER_02

So so when the gavel hit, was it like uh like it hit you? It's like the movies, yeah. It's like it's like it's like the shock hit you right when the gavel hit. Yeah, yeah. You know, I kind of feel that way when because uh RC loves that. No. RC's like today. Yeah. Well the judges don't.

SPEAKER_04

No.

SPEAKER_02

So like judges don't use the gavel really anymore. Really? They don't. They don't use the gavel. It's kind of outdated. They just they just they just say what they're doing, the sentence.

SPEAKER_01

It's so boring. I need the flacation.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, it probably wouldn't have been as impactful for you if you could have used the gavel. Wait, wait, so they still don't use it when it's like too loud in the court and they're like quiet in the court. I've never seen a judge use a gavel.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

But I've also never seen a rowdy court.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you gotta see the like criminal court too.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I've observed criminal court cases, but like generally people are respectful to like the perspective.

SPEAKER_01

But you don't want to get in more trouble.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, no, I'm talking, well, even the crowd, right? Like, they're not the ones. And they don't want to get in trouble too. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

But like court's a place where everyone like all these degenerates all of a sudden are in suits and like act like they're like members of society, they trim up the hair, they shave, they got the hair back in a ponytail, you know what I mean? They took time before they came in, you know. Everyone like acts on their best behavior.

SPEAKER_02

They do, they do do that. Um, I mean, you'll get your the occasional one where like a a defendant will lash out, right? But it's very rare. But the point I was trying to make is that like when you get the sentencing, right? When it's when like the order is stated, it's like you get that oomph, that impact, right? And it's like and it's like the room is so quiet, and then once they read it out, it's like it's like a um it's like finality, you know? It's like it's like this is a significant like thing that just happened, right? Yeah so that's how you really feel it, you know, when you're in that environment.

SPEAKER_04

I'm sure people have like cried.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so it's like 20 years, dude. Yeah, and then and then like they they're just like, all right, 20 years, they're consecutive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Imagine if you're innocent too, and they were like, oh heck no, dude.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, you can always appeal, right? But like I dude, I hate it because like when I practice and a judge rules like against unfavorably to me, I and I I get so pissed because once he states his order, it's done. Like there's no more argumentation. Yeah. And so I just have to like sit there like a bitch and take the L. Yeah. You know, I just take the L and there's nothing I can do. And I can try to like say something after, but anything I say is pointless because he already ordered.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, so well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And uh, and I know this is not a sports podcast, this is not a law podcast. No, it's not, it's not. It's a sobriety podcast. But now I just want to go down a tangent of like then, like, yes, you can appeal, but like judges don't want to like overturn another judge's, you know what I mean? So it's like you better be very compelling for them to be able to change it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it has to be a pretty gross like decision, like gross, uh, like misappropri uh inappropriate decision, right? Yeah, like there has to be like a clear error that the judge made.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, which is rare, but it depends on the issue that you have on appeal, not to go into the details, but yeah. Um, but anyway, let's get back to your your where you were at.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so you got sentenced to four months.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, to four months, which probably doesn't sound like that much, I guess. Like four months can go by pretty fast, but four months without freedom is like That's a lot, it's a long time.

SPEAKER_04

That's kind of like you have to like make friends in there, yeah. And you have to like, you know, get like get your uniform and everything.

SPEAKER_01

That became my mailing address. That became jail is my home address. So yeah. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04

Jail was your dhamma shot. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, you're getting like letters from the IRS sent to jail.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, kinda. Well, it's funny that you say letters. So, so that was, you know, I'm so like, okay, that's gonna be my life for the next few years.

SPEAKER_04

And you're still married at this point.

SPEAKER_01

Uh not yeah, but not for long. Like we had already been kind of on the on the outs, and then you know, then I go to jail and I'm in jail for four months.

SPEAKER_02

And uh did she visit you in the jail?

SPEAKER_01

Well, you know, we were talking about letters, and so I got divorce papers. I got divorce papers while I was in jail. Stop laughing. We can laugh about it now. RC's like funny, dude. We can laugh about it now because it's like, you know, only only like fellow alcoholics can understand like the worst shit that we go through is terrible. You know, you gotta be able to like laugh at it because it's like I'm not gonna shut the door on it, or like it made me who I am now. But I needed to get those divorce papers in jail because that was like the final piece. Like, I was like physically broken from drinking around the clock. Like uh, you know, I was mentally, I was mentally tired. I was broken. I was tired of like staring in the uh rearview mirror everywhere I was driving. But then like getting the divorce papers in jail was like spiritual bottom too. It was the trifecta, you know, and uh and it's like all those things just came together and I just it felt like a really big piece of shit. And um you know, I just remember like the first thing that I did, you know, it's like the foxhole prayers where we're like, please God, I won't ever drink again if you just let me do. I was more like oh my god. I was like, I've had so much fun. I had a lot of good times like in my as a kid in my 20s and 30s, like I did a lot of things, I got a lot of stories. Like I think that it's okay if I just like get out of here and I can just like work, you know, like the rest of my life is just like work and boring, like that'll be okay.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. Um, so I quit quick, not to derail. Yeah, but how long were you drinking until you hit that point? Like, was that like five years?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was like five years. Okay, okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, I started drinking when I was like in eighth grade. Sure, sure. But but I didn't start like serious drinking until I got off of the opiates when I moved to Florida.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I moved to Florida and just changed to alcohol.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but yeah, so that was like five years. And then now I'm in jail and like almost almost like dead from drinking myself to death.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um just got divorce papers in jail, like life. I can't believe that I fucked up this bad at like life, you know? Um you know, and then uh they they had these AA meetings in jail that I was going to, and it's kind of funny because at the time it was just like an excuse to get off the block. You know what I mean? Like I just liked being able to like walk to a different part of the jail. And like, you know, it's just like a a change up the routine a little bit. Um but I think like some I think some seeds were planted there, you know? Um and uh yeah. So then and this is kind of crazy too. So fast forward to the day I get out of jail, I had four dollars uh that they like uh gave me. You know, that was like in my property when I went in that I got back. And it wasn't I was gonna buy a beer. I was like gonna get some alcohol like when I got out. I was just not gonna drink the way I used to. I was like, you know, when I get out, I'll I'll just like drink a little. Yeah. But uh the four dollars was just enough for a pack of cigarettes, and I was like, uh tough choice. I can have one beer that's not gonna get me drunk, or I can have a whole pack of cigarettes that'll like I could smoke a few sigs a day for like a week, you know? So I bought the pack of smokes and it was like the beer can wait. The beer can wait. And then the only person like that was still like in my life, uh, my buddy Dakota um came and picked me up from jail and let me crash on his house uh at his house for like a for like a week until I like got back on my feet. Um so he comes and picks me. And we like all we ever did was party together, right? He comes and picks me up, and we're like on the way back to his house. And I'm like, yeah, dude, I I don't know, I'm gonna I'm not gonna drink, you know, I didn't I didn't buy a beer, I was telling him the story about the cigarettes, and and he's like a couple years younger than me and was like my party buddy. And he turned to me and he was like, Traver, you're my friend, so I don't mind doing this for you, man. But like I'm not doing it again. I'm not like coming to pick you up from jail again. And like getting uh getting like um lectured, you know what I mean? Like by my peer instead of like just like the man, you know, like fuck the man. But this is like my peer that was like, you're fucking up, basically, you know. And uh I was like, oh shit, you're right, man. And um, so you know, so like right right then I was like, okay, well I'm not gonna I'm not gonna like drink while I'm still staying at his house. You know, like once I like get back on my feet, you know, then I can like start drinking like a gentleman. And uh, you know, so that got me through so I didn't drink for like that first week that I was out of jail. And um and uh you know, I didn't have a job yet, so like I went and looked for a job all day, but then um uh in between like looking for a job, I didn't have anything to do, right? So I there's a Penman Clubhouse, there's an AA clubhouse, like right by his house. And so I start going to that. Like nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's almost like it was just like something to do. Like a social yeah, like you're able to just go and just chill in the AC for a little bit and talk to people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And uh yeah, so it's like so there was that, and then um, you know, and then the next thing was like it was like, oh, you know, uh now that I've got my own got my own place. Oh, that was the other funny thing too, is so then I go see my probation officer and she um sentences me like community service to do. And uh I'm like, well, I I live like right near this this AA clubhouse, so she sentences me to that. And I like thought that I was getting one over on them. You know what I mean? Because you're gonna go anyway, because I was gonna go anyway. So I was like, you suckers. You got that. Yeah. So there's just like another uh uh example of me thinking that I'm just like gonna get one over on the man, and like my god, you know. I just I heard someone say when I got in there, like, just go to 90 meetings in 90 days, and then if you still want to drink after that, fucking go for it, you know. Just try it, just try it. Don't like go to one meeting and be like it's not for me, just fucking try it. And like just it sounds simple, but it was impactful for me at that time, you know. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna, I'll give it 90 days. And um, I kept hearing people say, like, you know, you gotta get a sponsor, you gotta get a sponsor. So there was this guy, he was like, he was like a uh really he his shares were always like about his family, like how much he loved his family and had such a great relationship with his family. Nice RC. And I was like, I want what that guy's got. Yeah, not like the family, you know what I mean? I was like, oh dude, like he's he's got a family that loves him. Like I want that. Yeah. So I asked him to be my sponsor, and like um, you know, he uh it was just it was the best thing that could have happened to my sobriety. And you know, we started working the steps, and uh, and you know, I did the 90 meetings in 90 days, and um, you know, I saw that my life got better, you know what I mean? Like it was cool too, like talking to people, like my friend that picked me up from jail, um, being able to like see like the before and after, you know, uh people that knew you before, and then they see you after you're like, you know, 90 days or like six months sober, and they're like, You seem like a different person. And that was one thing that I was kind of scared of too, because I was like, that's kind of my identity is being like the wild card, you know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna do some crazy unexpected shit when I'm drunk. And I thought that that was like who I was, you know. I was like, Well, if I'm not that, who am I? And someone told me they were like, No, you're still like the same person, you just don't cause much like wreckage around you. And like that was really comforting to hear.

SPEAKER_02

Like, yeah. So are you still a wild card?

SPEAKER_01

Or yeah, I think like I'm still a little bit of a wild card. I think Alexa would tell you that. Yeah, like uh sometimes I like to go like right up to the edge of you know, like danger, or yeah, yeah, or like you know, like the sign says, like, do not enter, and I'm like, why not?

SPEAKER_02

But like, yeah, why don't why can't I enter? Like, like, what are you gonna do about it?

SPEAKER_04

I want to know those are the questions that need to be answered in this universe, you know? That's exactly like me, dude. It's like if there's something that I I can't do, I'm always like, well, I kind of want to do it, but not because, like, like the only reason is because you're telling me I can't do it. Yeah, what do you mean I can't pull this? Yeah, I don't really want to pull it, but just because I can't, I'm going to, and I'm just gonna see what happens.

SPEAKER_02

Um I think is interesting is that usually, you know, when you hear people's stories, right? They talk about how they hit this point of like absolute demoralization. And not saying that you didn't hit that. What I'm saying is that like then they like make this change of mind where they like want to get help and want to get better, right? And so they don't go to the rooms and they immediately like are more open to it because they are seeking a change, right? And it seems like for you, like it seems like you wanted to change, like you had a desire in you for change, but you weren't really like full wholeheartedly like wanting to like pursue something different.

SPEAKER_01

It's like I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's like you didn't you were just kind of like, but you were open-minded enough to consider different like uh feedback, right? Yeah. So I and I think that's really interesting. And it was just like that willing, that that desire almost had to grow over time, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, yeah, and like it was it was that bottom, it was that like moment in jail that like that pitiful, incomprehensible demoralization that I did feel in that moment. Um, but like I didn't, even though I was going to those meetings kind of in jail, like I didn't know how it works. You know what I mean? Like it was kind of in one ear, out the other. Like I said, I think a little bit of a seed got planted, but like I didn't know any better. Obviously, I thought that when I got out of jail I could drink like a gentleman, and like just thank God I didn't have that first drink, you know. Like the universe put obstacles kind of in my way to stop me from having that first drink.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_01

Uh long enough for me to kind of get into the program and be like, you know, this stuff kind of makes sense. And then, you know, and then you start seeing that there's other people like you, and you start hearing things in the rooms that you're like, it me. Yeah, yeah. That's me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that well, that's even if it's like a totally different story and like a in a that takes place in a different place, yeah, it's still like the exact same story, but just told differently.

SPEAKER_04

It's super scary too. It's like, yeah, like I'll be in meetings and there'll be a guy that talking about like a situation that he's in, like currently, and he's like 70 years old, right? And I'm like, bro, like that's the exact same feelings that I feel. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, even though like the specifics of the situation are different, yeah. And it's just like, yeah, like we're all yeah, yeah, take one. No, but yeah, it's like we're all alcoholics, so it's like, man, like the feeling that someone's getting whenever they're like going through like a really bad breakup is like somewhat similar feelings as like a divorce, you know? It's like you're both feeling like despair and heartbreak and just like you know, you're at like a dead end. Um, but wait, so was your last drink before jail? Yeah, or oh, okay. So your last drink was before jail. So even after you got you you left.

SPEAKER_03

I didn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because even so I got a little bit of a head start. So like how how much time went by. Four months. Yeah. You had so you were ahead of the game. I was in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, but you know, like if you're a round the clock drinker, um, like you're not to say that not everybody's, but I feel like a binge drinker that drinks on the weekends, he like comes back to like normal. But if you're literally drinking around the clock for like two years straight, uh like reality is warped. You know what I mean? You're like in a different kind of world. Sure.

SPEAKER_04

It's just super hazy, dude. Super fuzzy.

SPEAKER_01

So it took like a couple months before I like realize that like, oh shit, like what what world am I in? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Did did you did you ever pick up a white chip or no?

SPEAKER_01

No. You never picked up a white chip? No, because they didn't they didn't have chips in jail. We might try to file them down and shank each other. Holy crap. Damn, no, so I didn't, yeah. So I didn't um I I never picked up a white chip, but I think six months was the first chip that I picked up, yeah. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Damn that was like two months after jail then.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Damn, that's crazy. That is crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Do you want to pick up a white chip?

SPEAKER_04

Seven years. This is only for formality. Um wait, so when was the when did you like kind of realize that you were done? Like done drinking and just done with all that.

SPEAKER_01

So like when I had that moment, you know, when I had that moment in jail, uh I knew that I wanted to change something. Oh I didn't know what, and I didn't know like what I needed to change. Like I didn't know what steps. I didn't know that, like, you know what I mean? And so then, you know, so then like getting out, like I said, it was just like some like small things. First, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get my own place, or it's like, oh, I'm just I'm gonna get off probation or whatever. Like, I I kind of set these like short-term goals for myself. Um, and you know, and then it was just like hearing the message, and then like I said, you you see these other people that are all like happy and shit, and like they got their lives together. I'm like, we suffer from the same thing, but like you are doing well, yeah. You know what I mean? How you have a wife and you got a baby on the way, and you got a new truck, like, okay, so maybe I should do what you're doing. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so then it's like it, yeah. So I definitely had like the educational variety, yeah, I would say, where it's like I I learned that this could be like a way. And then, like I said, then once I started doing it, I could see it in my own life. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I I think that some of the most compelling like arguments that we have in the program for convincing people to try to start this way of life is just showing them like the results of it, right? And it's like, you know, because people will come in with their own ideas of like, you know, how they should live their lives. But when we show them, it'd be like, hey, I got this great career, hey, I got money in the bank, hey, I got this new car, hey, I got a family. And and then and then you present that to them, and they're like fucking like homeless and like you know, you know, absolutely disheveled and like suffering, and they'll be like, Well, maybe I'll try what you're doing. Right.

SPEAKER_01

You know, like well, and and that's the thing too, is it's like it's almost like frowned upon, you know what I mean? Like, because we don't talk about like the the um like the tangible things, like that's not what makes my life good now. That's not what makes me happy, joyous, and free. But like, fuck yeah, I'm glad that I have two cars and a and a good job. Well, it's persuasive, yeah, it's persuasive, right?

SPEAKER_02

And so it's really you're trying to get these people to give them motivation to try this, right? And if it works, if it's a persuasive thing, then it's useful, yeah, right. But but like you're right, and that like that doesn't these material things don't define like how good my life is, yeah, but it's nice to point to, right? So and it's nice to have.

SPEAKER_04

So I feel like it's also like it's one of those things where it's like, you know, like whenever I got sober, I I didn't want to like get sober and you know be homeless. You know, like yeah, like I don't want to get sober and just like not have savings crappy sales pitch. Exactly, dude. Exactly. It's just like okay, like why would I want that? You know, so it's like I could totally relate to that because like when I would go, I would go to a lot of men's meetings, right? Um, and I would see obviously like we went in pretty young, right? And I would see these like men that were like 40s and 50s, and exactly what you were saying, like, dude, they had like not just jobs, but like careers. They had like careers, like oh yeah, like me and my my kids just went to our lake house. Yeah, and I'm like, what dude? Like you're just talking to me about how you were like a freaking heroin addict, like 20 years ago, right? And then like I would believe them, you know. I would I would actually I would be like, okay, like if these guys, and it's not just like one guy that you see in the room. Exactly. It's like, dude, you see like a pattern where you're like, oh my god. And even like in the big book, um, where it says uh rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04

So I would think in my head that like, okay, if I could just get on the path that like these guys went on, like maybe I could like join them in like their thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Here's the other thing too, is like I thought that I drank and drugged uh for fun, you know what I mean? Like I liked the effect, yeah. And I did it for so long that I forgot that I could have fun sober, I just never tried it. You know what I mean? So then it's like, oh shit, you can have fun in sobriety. And and that's kind of like a callback too to that like moment that I was in jail, and I was like, even if I can just like work hard, you know, and be like really, really boring, that'll be okay. Yeah, and it's like, man, when I say that I have a life beyond my wildest dreams, it's not like you know, it's not the family and the cars, it's like uh it's just content with where I am. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's like just being content with where I am, and like and I'm not even drunk, yeah, and I'm content with where I am, and like I didn't know that that was possible.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and it's like I think it's a feeling of like just feeling good about yourself and about your life, right? Like you don't need these exhilarating moments of like high highs, yeah, you know. I mean, they're like if I were to go to like a concert or like skydaving, like that, that's fun, right? But it's like you know, on a on a daily basis, it's like to have like a level of like happiness and gratitude and actually like feel good about what you're doing, right? Like that's like that keeps you going, you know.

SPEAKER_04

So yeah, man. It's crazy. I I have a question. So like so you got out, you're at Penman, you got a sponsor, yeah. So like in those first couple of months, because I feel like a lot's changed in your life at that point, dude. Right? You're like freshly divorced, right?

SPEAKER_01

What's crazy is the first job that I got was making sandwiches again.

SPEAKER_04

This is not as fun.

SPEAKER_01

My job coming in and my job that I got when I got it out.

SPEAKER_04

But yeah, yeah, probably you were probably much better at that than amount of your stuff. Like making double the amount of. So what was like the most difficult part of sobriety in your life, like those first, let's say, six months out of jail?

SPEAKER_01

What is the most difficult part?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Well, I mean, I And like how did you kind of like get through that, or like what was the solution to like that? That difficult, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I mean, okay, number one was like I did not feel good before jail. You know what I mean? So then like I get out, and just like having those like four months to like sober up and start to feel like a human again, you know what I mean? Like my hand finally stopped shaking after like three months. Like it took three months for me to lose the shakes. I didn't know if that would ever go away. So I'm like, fuck yeah, life is good. My hands aren't shaking, like I have freedom, I can go stick my toes in the grass. Like there was a lot of benefits, you know what I mean, right away. And uh, and you know, I just I I wanted to try and kind of like get back on track. So, you know, like I got I got um that job and then I got another job. I got a job at Shout Out Cantina Louie was uh waiting tables at Cantina, and um, you know, I started to kind of like build a little bit of a community and I started to feel at home, like there was something I think that was missing that I was looking for in like bars and and stuff was like that that sense of belonging. You know what I mean? But it was never like cheers. You guys are too young to know cheers, probably. Cheers? Yeah, the show Cheers with Ted Danson. It's like yeah, no. Well, it was like it's the place where everybody knows your name, and they just like they painted off like you know, it's like a little family at the bar. I see, you know, and that thing that I was looking for, I ended up finding that like in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, you know. Uh fun little side story too. The other thing is I made friends in AA, and so that helped too. So then it's like I have like-minded people and we're kind of on this path together of like trying to better ourselves. Um but I I met my I had this buddy when at one of one of the jobs that I that I uh worked at, like in in my drinking, in my drinking career, we were both uh server assistants at Ruth's Chris, and we would you know clear these like giant wine parties, and we would be like in the dish pit chugging half drink glasses of wine together. You know what I mean? And fast forward a couple of years, and I'm like brand new to the rooms, and I run into my buddy Robert. And I was like, the last time I saw you, we were chugging other people's wine in the dish pit, and like of course we ran into each other here. That's kind of like me and you, dude. That's so true.

SPEAKER_04

I feel like last time we were like we were like crushing up Adderall, dude.

SPEAKER_02

Like sorry, shotgunning beers, dude.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, crazy, dude. That's dope. So it was so it was genuinely like positive, like you were like feeling good, yeah, just to have freedom and also just be sober.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And I because that's what I say a lot too. I mean, and I know everyone's experience is different, and maybe like maybe it doesn't feel the worst part, you know what I mean, is like that first like 30 days, 60 days, and I was incarcerated. So like yeah, I didn't have I was just in a cell, you know what I mean? So like that time was really crappy for me too, but you know, drinking wasn't really an option. Uh it was like off the table. But then by the time that they like let me back out with to be free, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You kind of were feeling okay. Yeah, I was feeling somewhat okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I was feeling okay, and mostly I was just feeling like like a fucking newborn, you know what I mean? I was just like a new baby, like experiencing life and like life sensations were starting to come back to me, you know.

SPEAKER_02

You know, I think it's interesting because I think that period was like almost like a high risk period for you, you know, where you could have gone one way or another, but it's like only it's like by the by God's grace, you know, you ended up into the rooms, yeah, right. You know, where where you actually got real help. Yeah, you know, and we so anyway, we're over an hour, so we can wrap up here. But I I have a I have one more question for you. Um and that is what motivates you to continue to progress in this life of sobriety, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So I mean, I think one important thing, I might have shared this too, like in my little speech when I picked up my chip uh last week, but it's like I I don't forget, like I know people talk about having a built-in forgetter, you know, we hear that a lot in the rooms, but like I don't forget where I came from, you know, and it's like I can have a bad day and have first world problems now. And if I can stop and take a moment to like recenter um and think about where I came from and what I felt like before I was working AA, you know what I mean? Then it's it's just a no-brainer for me. Um you know, I'm a pretty like I feel like I'm a pretty even keeled person just naturally, and that is a big benefit to have in in sobriety. But um, you know, it's just like I like the life that I've built, and uh and um I wanna I wanna try new things, you know what I mean? I wanna like explore and I wanna do new things, I wanna continue to grow as a person. You know what I mean? I just I feel like drinking and drugging would just be like like I've done that chapter and I did that chapter like. Hard. You know what I mean? So it's like I want to make a new chapters. I don't want to like go back to the chapters I already wrote.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. And you know, I think that like your story in general, like it's it's like it's so it's like it's so relatable. You know, I mean, even though like I never went to jail, you know, it's like you know, I can relate to all of those feelings. And um it's so cool to see like how people end up like in the rooms and actually transforming and getting help. So, you know, and you're such a like a great uh friend to have, you know. So it's like it's nice that we got, you know, um, we're even able to connect, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So it's really cool too, because like uh, you know, as we get older, it's like life happens, and and that's a great thing about sobriety, is like our lives become bigger, you know what I mean? And so um like people have moved away, you know, but then it's funny, but then you find like you connect with new people. And like, you know, like I had one good friend move away, and then you moved here, like right around the same. Who's better? Am I better than who did you prefer? We're not we're not comparing, we're relating. Hey, you ever uh you ever what what is the dog's name again? Koba. You ever try to get Koba on the podcast?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, he has like inadvertently like been on the podcast.

SPEAKER_04

I think our first podcast, dude, we were like testing the little buttons on this thing, and then like if you listen to it, you could hear Koba and some of them just like yeah, like chanting hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's like kind of annoying. But any any last thoughts, Alex?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, man. I um dude, I can relate to a lot, bro, what you said, like especially the moving part.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right? Like when I moved from Florida to Maine, like same thing, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Like, oh problem solved, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah, exactly, bro. It's like, all right, I'm not gonna do Adderall, I'm not gonna like party and freaking drink on the weekdays, and then um, yes, I can relate to that. Uh, but I don't know if I ever, so for those listening, I mean you are my sponsor. Okay, I'm not a perfect sponsee, but um, I don't know if I ever told you why I kind of chose you to be my sponsor. Did I ever tell you that?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I don't know. Refresh my memory.

SPEAKER_04

I think you told me. So it's a very, very simple thing. So, like, obviously, when I first moved here, I had a sponsor. Um, just because I was like terrified of relapsing. Because I just knew that, like, dude, if I don't have a sponsor, like within like two weeks, like I'm cooked.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, and then after we we and him kind of like did our thing and I was looking for a new one, I was at on the Tuesday meeting, right? Dude, you would always show up every Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, dude, every good meeting. It is good, dude. Every Tuesday when I would go, like it's my home group. I mean, there are some people that are like there sometimes, like some people that are more there than often, but like, dude, you were there like almost every single week. And when you weren't, like, you would tell us, like, oh, I'm not gonna be here next week, you know. Yeah, that's kind of changed recently now, you know. I know, I'm not, yeah. But, anyways, yeah, dude, so you were always there, and also too, like, whenever we went to Waffle House one time, dude. I I remember exactly where we sat, too. Um, you told me that you went to jail, dude, for four months.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And uh I was like looking at you, and I know where you work, right? Like, I know the industry that you work in, and it baffled my mind that like somebody where you are right now, yeah, could have spent four years in county jail. Four months. Yeah, four months, yeah. And I was like, dude, like this guy obviously, like he shows up like every single week, and he's like clearly changed his life around, you know. So I was like, so I th I thought about it for like maybe like a week or two weeks, and then I was just like, dude, like I want him to like I want what you have.

SPEAKER_01

Fuck yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_04

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, like I want what like this guy has because clearly you didn't have anything at one point in your life. Yeah, and then like you did the steps of AA, and like you just did everything that all the suggestions or most of them, and then like you just turn your life around.

SPEAKER_01

It you know, it really is a miracle, and like if you it's it's uh my pleasure to be able to work with you too, and it's like it's uh something that I really look forward to doing. Um, but yeah, if you ever want evidence of a miracle, someone calling me reliable is like if you knew the old Traver, like that was like one thing you could count on, is not counting on me. So for me to be the same place every week is uh that is a miracle in and of itself.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. So thanks, man. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate you. And um obviously, like you know, we see each other every month, right? But yeah, I appreciate you, dude. Like, you know, there's all this, man. Yeah, like I obviously know a lot of people in Jax, you know, but definitely I have like my small group of people that like I call and like that really know what's what's going on, you know, and you're you're one of them. So hell yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm uh honored to be able to to to do that, and I'm honored to trudge the road with you, my brother.

SPEAKER_02

Hell yeah. Oh, well, this was cute. Um no, but seriously, like it's it's awesome. It's awesome to have both of you guys, you know, that are such close connections, you know, with me and so glad to see you know you guys working together. So um, but yeah, man. Well, thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Next time we'll do a uh sports.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, sports or like law, maybe we could talk about law. I'm good. We can talk about teeth too, you know.

SPEAKER_04

Whatever good luck. You need a root canal.

SPEAKER_01

I knew that you are under oath. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And uh shout out Alexa.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, shout out Alexa. Shout out Alexa. All right, man. Well, that was three shout-outs, actually four or five, I think. You think that's enough? Shout out Alexa. All right, man. Well, thanks for uh listening, everyone, and uh, we'll catch you on the next one. Bye. Adios.