Season 1 Eposode 7, Kevin Pillar

Kevin Pillar and I talk multi sport athleticism.  I roast the hiring practices of MLB teams

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is Walk Off Slams with grades on on AM 1150.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Well, given all that's happened to the Blue Jays so far this young season 2026, I'm actually kind of impressed with the way they're treading water. So, how do they stay afloat until reinforcements arrive? We got uh pretty decent news. Looks like Trey Savage should be coming back pretty soon. You know, he's not gonna be able to you know light the world on fire himself, and I'm sure the league is going to try to make some adjustments with regards to him. Um, you know, will we get Alejandro Kirk back? I don't know. Uh we we know we're not gonna get Cody Ponce back, so you know hopefully we get Bieber, uh Barrios, but Yassavage looks like he's gonna be the first one off the DL. So let's take a look at some key statistical categories here in this young season. So far, uh to date, the Jays are 16th in home runs. So right in the middle of the pack as far as hitting home runs, but they're 24th in runs scored, proving that these guys live and die by the big ball. Uh at the point where I did my research, they were the only team in Major League Baseball without a home run with runners in scoring position. So they're hitting a bunch of them, uh solos and maybe, you know, runner at first base. Number one in strikeouts. Well, that shouldn't surprise anybody. I mean, Gosman and Cease by themselves will probably lead Major League Baseball in punchies. Uh, but they're 26th in ERA. So what does that tell you? Uh they're not getting quick outs. They're either striking guys out or they're giving it up. And and that's not good. But they can take solace in the fact that uh Boston's in way worse shape. Um and and another positive thing is you know, we we've got several days left in in April, and their opponents are under 500. So they don't need to really worry about it. They're not really getting into outside of having played the Dodgers and well, the Milwaukee Brewers, you know, they haven't looked awesome. They don't look as good as they were last year, but it's early. Um, but most of the guys there as a collective, they're under 500. So, you know, they can tread water and keep their head above the breaking point there and hopefully stay in it. Uh, what do they need to see happen? Well, Patrick Corbin. Okay, they added Patrick Corbin. I think he needs to pitch 500 baseball. Uh his best years were in his late 20s, obviously, uh 2017 to 2019. But this guy's never been a winner as far as his record goes. His career ERA coming in was four and a half. Uh, if any of you guys know what a quality start is, it's uh you know three or less runs and you know, six. So that that that calculates to a four and a half ERA. Uh so by definition, this guy on average for a season gives you a quality start. But for some reason, he loses. You look at his win-loss record, and it ain't good. Um, his run support for his career has been awful, which might suggest why he's had such a bad win-loss record. But I gotta argue, winners find a way to win and they pitch to the situation. Now, I had a teammate uh long time ago. We played together on the Florida Marlins in '97. Uh we played together on the 99 Texas Rangers, named Rick Helling. He won 20 games one year for the Texas Rangers. I think it was that year after I left. I think it was 2020, I believe. He won 20 games with a four and a half ERA. Now, you could say maybe he's lucky, or maybe this guy just understands how to pitch. You know, when he got five runs from that juggernaut offense that was the Texas Rangers, he didn't go out and nibble corners and walk guys. He went out and threw the ball down the middle of the plate and he made guys beat him to the big part of the ballpark, and he always seemed to find a way to win, meaning he gave up less runs than he than the team scored. So, you know, guys like Rick, they knew how to win. Corbin, I'm not so sure. I wouldn't expect his luck to change anytime soon, but you know, because there's just certain guys that that they're that way, and they're that way their whole career, and you just can't figure it out. You're like, you know, this guy's stuff's pretty good. Why has he got such a crummy win-loss record? Well, it's suggests that it's going to continue. So John Schneider and Pete Walker, their job is to figure out how far is too far. When is enough enough? So, you know, if this guy's kept you in the ball game, they can't be waiting around to try to get to milk an extra three outs out of this guy. You know, if you get anywhere near the fifth and you're within one run or even winning, uh, he got to go. But, you know, then we get to the bullpen, and you know, you know, the bullpen, those guys need to hold leads. And when I watch the bullpen of the Toronto Blue Jays, I see a bunch of guys out there trying to be way too cute. They they don't have room for error right now. They need to lock it down. They don't have to be perfect, but they need to lock it down. They can't be blowing leads. So understand that you got to keep it simple. Uh most guys are most effective when they're a two-pitch guy. And you might have three, but you don't use three pitches to one batter, the way that Louis Vlan seems to try to do. He tries to use his entire arsenal every time he goes out there. In my opinion, he's the guy that should be closing games for the Blue Jays, but he's a little too cute right now. Okay? So if Varland could just go out there and figure out, you know what, fastball slider to righties, uh, fastball split or fastball change to the lefties, and just spot that heater. It's electric. His stuff is jumping on hitters. If he never figures that out, then they might have a guy that can close games and not have, you know, give give the manager palpitations. But these guys need to figure it out. They need to understand, keep it simple, down and away for show, or excuse me, for the dough, in for show, and make them beat you to the opposite field late in ball games and watch what happens. You know, going back to this the starting side of the game, uh Kevin Gosman needs to step up and be an ace. I'm sorry. They need to win every time he goes out there. He may not get the win, but he needs to step up. And I'm not even sorry to say that. That's what aces do. Step up. The Jays were two and two in his starts the last time I checked. Um personal numbers are great. The ERA is under three, the whip is under one, but aces find another gear. And he just always seems to give up that hit or walk somebody when he shouldn't. You know, the story of Dylan Sees, so to speak. Uh, you know, we saw Gossman go six scoreless the other day. Um, or excuse me, I mean, if it takes six scoreless, uh, that's what it takes. But he's got to be able to find that other gear and step up. And I think he needs to give the team minimum six every time out. If not seven. Let's go. Um, Dylan Sees. Oh my god, the potential for this guy. I mean, he's got the stuff to be the top three guys in the game. I would put his stuff up there with skeins. He has that kind of gear, but what he doesn't have is enough dog in him, if I'm if I'm being quite honest. There's a little too much Zen. There's a little too much yoga, there's a little too much chamomile tea, so to speak. It's like, oh, you know, I'm I'm really pensive and you know, I want my avocado toast, and I want to I want to feel uh you know the the chakras and whatnot. Like, give me a break, dude. Have a shot of tequila and let's go punch some guys out. Like, give me a break. I mean, the stuff is electric, it's eye-popping. Um, but he always seems to make that one mistake. Um, you know, he had a great outing last last time out, uh, but in my opinion, they yanked him too soon. I mean, six scoreless? Come on, dude. What are you you're paying this guy 30 million? Let him get through the seventh. What are you saving him for? You guys might be 20 out by the break uh if this guy doesn't do his job. So let him do his job. Um, you know, pitch counts, come on. Like he should be ready for a hundred every time out. Come on. I mean, let's go. Eric Lauer, step up, dude. You're a stud. You want to be the man? Pitch like the man, you want to get paid like the man? Well, now's your turn. Here's a golden opportunity for you to step up and prove that you could be a one-two for somebody. It may not be the Jays with with you know Gosman and Cease, uh, but you could be a one or two for somebody else. I like this guy. I mean, he carried them last year. He did whatever they needed to do, uh, needed him to do, and he did it well. But he needs to step up and pick up the slack right now. Like this guy, uh, he's got to give them a chance to win, if not win. And it's it's now. Now is the time for it. Varsho, Clement, come on. Time to evolve. I know Varsho's heating up, but both of these guys need to ref redefine what their idea of success is. Historically, neither one of them are big run producers. They need to have more team-oriented at bats. Uh, they need to get a plan instead of just going up there hacking, because if if they don't, it's going to be a roller coaster ride all the time. Uh, you know, Varsho's OBP is under 300 for his career. That's atrocious. Um, especially when you're athletic like him. Uh be more patient, get good pitches to hit. Uh they need to, they need to start getting on base, having team at bats. The, you know, the absence of Springer and Barger, that's 160 plus RBI from two spots in the lineup they're missing. They need to circle the wagons, take some team approach at bats, focus on run production. Get on, get them over, get them in, nothing more, nothing less. Right now, team OBP hovering around 300. Garbage. If you take Vladdy out of the lineup, it's under 300. I've never seen that before. Uh, you want to see an example of how it's done properly? Go take a look at the numbers of the 2002 California Angels. Kind of an anomaly. Not the highest payroll in the game, but they won the World Series that year because they had a sparkling 340 team OBP. The team hit 280. The team hit 280. Okay? That's nine guys versus a pitching staff. They got on base in a lot of ways. They moved runners for each other. They drove them in in a ton of different ways. Hits, walks, sackflies, ground balls. Think run production. Everybody gets a chance when everybody's getting on base. You're all going to get your chance to drive in runs. We know that money lies in RBIs, but I can tell you right now, somebody needs to step up and start getting on base in front of Vlad. They need to produce behind him so they can't pitch around him. Because if I'm a smart team, and I am, I'm a team of me. I'm not pitching to Vladdy. I'm absolutely not pitching to Vladdy. I'm going to make Bar show beat me. I know I can get Clement out because I just don't throw him some strikes. And quite frankly, uh, these guys need to evolve. I'll say it again. Evolve. Take your game to the next level. Step outside your comfort zone because you ain't got nothing to lose at this point. You're under 500. You're treading water in the American League East. Who knows? You guys actually might evolve into something better than what you think you might be. Because there's more than one way to score runs than swinging for the fences. More than one way. Pass the baton. Get a good pitch to hit. It starts with having a plan. So, you know, I I've said my piece. I love these guys. I'm still on, still on the train. But you know what? If I'm in that dugout, I'm like, all right, boys, time to evolve. Time to step up. Time to become the best guy, the best player, the best run producer you can be.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Leading off the latest MLB news.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Oh my God. As anybody says that small ball doesn't pay dividends. They never watch playoff baseball. And they are certainly not watching the Tampa Bay Rays. They're playing small ball and they're taking advantage of weaknesses. They have literally bunted their way into first place in the American League East. It's awesome. I absolutely love it. And it's not because I don't like homers. I mean, trust me, I I chased home runs my entire career. But what they're doing right now, they're making major league pitchers' heads explode. They're not even laying down good bunts. Like these bunts are halfway between the mound and the line. When in my day we wanted the bunts to be, you know, no more than three feet from the line. And that's a sacrifice because teams practiced bunt defense. Pitchers fielded their positions more often than not. I mean, yeah, we called them non-athletes because there were, you know, those you know brain-dead heavers that couldn't do anything but throw hard. The one trick ponies like the guys today who do nothing but train to spin it max effort and throw it max effort. Um, you know, if you've seen the the uh the velocity labs on on social media, you got a a bunch of shirtless kids, you know, hovered around a mound, humping in the sweating and and and heaving and screaming and high-fiving each other, and their video coordinator is the most valuable player because he's he's splicing together 15 strikes over a three-month period, and that's all he threw. Um watching these pitchers and the defenses melt down because guys are laying down bunts, it gives me great pleasure. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say it. I I love it because you you know that I've been critical of training of Major League players, that they're not athletic enough, that they're not in baseball shape. Uh clearly, when you see a professional athlete, and I'm air quoting like crazy, but it's radio, so you can't see it, professional athlete have a complete and utter meltdown spasm uh and launching balls down the right field, left field line and to the backstop on just routine three hop bunts almost right back to them, and you're sitting there asking yourself, did you spend any time doing anything athletic other than trying to throw the ball as hard as you can while you were coming up as a kid? Were you a PO? That's what I'm wondering. How many guys I I I'm I would love to get the stats on this. Like, how many guys that are pitching in Major League Baseball today were POs? And if you're not familiar with the with the the acronym, PO means pitcher only. That means that they suck so bad at hitting and playing other positions at such a young age, but they had a thunderbolt for an arm, or mommy and daddy had a ton of money and they couldn't get them off the off the team. They were POs, pitchers only. And they had to make a uniform for these guys and take them on road trips and share hotel rooms with these knuckleheads, and they can't feel their position. It's absolutely awesome to watch heads explode in Major League Baseball because somebody laid a bunt down and not even a good one. It's and what's even more exhilarating for me is getting into debates with people who say, oh, well, you can't win with small ball. Well, I might be inclined to believe you over the course of 162, especially if you're a team like the Dodgers that can bang one through nine, yeah, we're probably not going to bunt too often. But what happens in the postseason? Even the Dodgers start to bunt. And what I don't understand, and and here's some stats that that that really resonate with me as a head coach, a manager. The team that scores first in Major League Baseball in in games wins 70% of the time. So imagine you got a leadoff double by your by your leadoff hitter in the first inning of the game, you got two, three, four coming up. Now I know he's already in scoring position, but if you adhere to the the statistical uh truth that is 70% of the time the team that scores first in Major League Baseball wins the game, wouldn't you bunt him over to third and then have take take your chances with three and four, who don't even need a base hit at this point? Because I guarantee you they're not playing the infield in in the first inning unless somebody like Halliday or Skeens or Nolan Ryan or you know Greg Maddox is pitching and you know you're gonna be lucky to scrap one run. They're not they're not playing the infield in. So they're gonna give you a ground ball to shortstop RBI. And you just scored first, and seven out of ten times that means you're gonna win in Major League Baseball. And yet people don't do it. And people's heads are exploding in Major League Baseball because the Tampa Bay Rays have bunted their way into first place. Coming up on the next segment of Walk Off Slams, I've got a treat for you. Superman himself, Kevin Pilar.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

You're listening to Walk Off Slams with Greg Zon on AM 1150.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Well, gang, it's it's not too often that you get a chance to uh talk to a modern-day superhero. Uh this week's guest made his Major League debut with the Toronto Blue Jays in August of 2013, quickly became a fan favorite with his aggressive, sacrificing all to make a catch style. By 2015, he was winning awards for his play in center field, led all center fielders in 2017 with a 997 fielding percentage. I'm here to tell you that's almost impossible to do given the amount of volume that center fielders deal with. Playing career span 13 season, 10 organization, currently a regular analyst on Blue Jay Central. He is Kevin Pilar. Kevin, thanks for joining us today. Yeah, thanks for having me. Good to hear your voice. Yeah, man. I'm I'm I'm living in Canada, so I get to see you a lot more than you see me, but uh love, love what's going on. Love love the fact that you're on there. It brings a whole nother uh angle to the broadcast. I I get tired of listening to old catchers. So good perspective.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

I also want to tell you, I haven't told you this. I mean, you've obviously, you know, we have some mutual friends uh in Scotty, and um you've been nothing but gracious to me during my uh time on SportsNet. You know, behind the scenes, you you've given me some you know constructive criticism and also some advice that's only helped me um be better at what I'm doing. And as a player, can I agree with everything that you had to say no? But now sitting in that chair, I understand you have a job to do and you did it really well. And obviously, being a former player who like you were in that position, you know, what a former player can offer much like yourself is just invaluable to the listeners because you know what I've really tried to bring, you know, aside from you know a different point of view is you know, once you get in that uniform, once you get in that dugout, hopefully you're in that organization, but you just know what the players are going through, you know, and and I know how you feel about you know modern day, you know, invading things in technologies and favor metrics. And that stuff is great and it has a point in the game, but when you can get a human um that's lived it um and their perspective and the emotions that go behind trying to be a big leader and trying to post every single day, knowing that not every night is gonna be perfect when you get home, you know, with your wife or your kids or your dog or things outside baseball. You know, that's really what I try to bring is I've been there, I've done it, I know what these guys are going through, and uh I appreciate the things that you've done uh for me behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Well, you know, I I wanted to help you because obviously we have mutual friends. I I love Jamie Campbell, like he's he's my brother, and and uh I I think it's it's great. Like I said, it's you being an outfielder, it brings a different perspective. And you being from uh you know a generation closer to the modern day player, you really understand what they're going through. I mean, I didn't have to deal with social media until the very end of my career, and it was just Facebook. I can't even imagine trying to go through life and just be a ball player, an athlete, and have to deal with all the stuff that you guys had to deal with.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

And and then the other thing is there's definitely there's definitely a lot of perks that come with it, obviously, you know, being more front and center, being able to, you know, create a brand, be uh create an identity around yourself. Um those things are great, and I think that's the great thing about social media, you know, also being able to stay connected with former teammates and friends back home, all those things are great, but having instant access to the players, you know, on Insta or Instagram or whatever sort of social media that you use comes with some challenges, you know, like it's making even and I think it's even gotten worse recently because betting has become such a big part of the game, um big part of baseball, that now you're receiving things that you can't even imagine what some of these players, you know, have to read on their feeds daily about the gambling, but also you know, the over-unders on games and just their overall performance. Everything is so micromanaged now. Um it's a difficult time to be a a major league baseball player.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, I I think it's it's a really tough time. And I and I've argued on this show multiple times. I had uh Ted Barrett, the former MLB umpire on with me. We were talking ABS, and I'll argue all day and night that the only reason it's there is because they legalize gambling and they need visible oversight on umpires' calls. They need needed to be within a certain margin of error so that if somebody loses 100K on one pitch, they can't cry foul. And uh, you know, that's that's a a whole new layer. I know the fans are loving it. I mean, I'm sure you've seen and heard as being at the ballpark, the the amount of applause and ruckus that happens when a when a carl call goes in the favor of the home team. It's uh it's uh it adds another layer of excitement to the game, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah, I've never I've never really considered that part of it. And I think you're spot on. You know, I think is that one hundred percent the reason they did it? No, but I think it's a huge component since betting has become so popular in the sport and you can do it in the stadium, you can do it from your phone, it's everywhere, you know. And and the crazy thing is, you know, majority of these you know, even on uh um V G Central, you know, one of our biggest sponsors is Bet 365. So like i you can't get away from it. But I do think there's a element of what you just said is why it was implemented because there is a lot of money being moved, you know, on pitch to pitch and there has to be some sort of kind of parameters. And I do think it's added a great level of entertainment to the game. I think it's really and in addition to that I also think it's really highlighted how friggin' good these major league umpires are. And obviously you've had a first hand um to that being a catcher for a long time in the major leagues. All it's really showcased is when these guys have to dial it in and be really precise in their calls, they can be very elite. The problem is we you know we gave a lot of power to the umpires to kind of speed up the game and move the game along and there back in your day there used to be this element of, you know, if you were a young guy you had to kind of earn your strike zone. You know if you had an older guy that was an established pitcher, you know, they could kind of establish their own outer and inner half of the the zone and you would tell the hitters, the umpire would probably tell the hitters like, hey this is the strike zone today he's established it. I think it's good for the game that there's you know and and and the the the strike zone's always been in the rule book but you and I both know it's kind of always been a gray area. And is it better that it's like 27.9% of the guy's body height no one really knows what that means. But the fact that there's these actual real parameters um that can be done um I think really highlights how really good these umpires are at a very difficult job.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

I think they're way better than they were when I when I played you you you you kind of touched on it I mean gosh I was there in the 90s when I had to go to Atlanta and deal with the Brave pitching staff and basically if they hit the catcher in the chest you you had to swing the bat. But we knew where the strike zone was we had we had notebooks on the umpires we knew all we needed to know so we we could predict pretty well what the game was going to look like that day based on the five it was it was difficult there were times when you know tempered with the senior guy out of the strike and remember strike 2015 is definitely highlighted just dialogue dialogue we get to watch I got to cover you as a broadcaster f we watched you make one catch after another I don't know what anniversary it is but just I remember the wall climber on Jackie Rabbit today. That was kind of like in my opinion like your coming out party so to speak like hey guys this guy can really play some defense. And then it was just one highlight reel catch after another kind of kind of reminiscent of uh one of my teammates just never seemed to be on his feet always seemed to be diving in a gap somewhere uh making a great catch.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

I mean who did you model your style of play in the outfield after growing up yeah it's actually kind of crazy I had a uh a a couple buddies of mine uh I think it was on uh uh Pardon Your Take um yesterday they kind of did a segment on it it was the 11 year anniversary which makes me kind of feel old and those are their words not mine I don't like it I don't like sit back and like every Jackie Robinson day go like oh it's my anniversary of you know the the moment that really kind of changed my career and to your point that catch really did kind of change my career and I've been on record saying that many times that I always kind of knew you know what I was capable of doing um defensively because it was something I did growing up in the backyard in my little leagues and all my other sports that I played. I always had a pretty good um ability to go make plays and I had good body awareness. You know I I remember growing up you know jumping off the back of the boat or into the pool, you know, making plays like that and it's perfect you mentioned a guy like Jim Edmonds because I think even to the last day that I played I wanted to go out and make those type of plays and you know what sort of toll it took on my body was always secondary because I remember sitting in my house as a young kid watching guys like Jim Edmonds you know back in the day when ESPN still had web gems you know I would sit up in my room you know at night before I'd go to bed and I would look forward to watching the web gems and watching these guys make plays and I think the kid in me never really lost sight of that that if I had an opportunity to make another play and and and not that I wanted to see myself on TV but I I always thought about that young kid in me that stayed up at night and maybe there was a lot of other kids out there that kind of did the same thing. If it if it helped kind of inspire them, motivate them, um allow them to maybe go out and try things in their swimming pool like I did you know a thousand times growing up then that's who I wanted to be as a player.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

So you mentioned body awareness you mentioned multi sport. What what's your take on kids specializing so early? I'm an opponent of it. I love to see kids playing multiple sports because I think it promotes body awareness but you talk about jumping off a pool in a boat and I and I I can visualize exactly what you're doing. I've probably had you know siblings or friends you know throwing balls at you and you're diving into the pool and making catches how did that all how did the multi sport affect you know just playing at being a kid and just jumping around and and and making plays and doing things how did it affect your ability to play the very very difficult position of center field?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Well I mean there there's so many layers to that I mean first and foremost I I think um I don't think when I was a little kid I don't think my calling was to be a professional baseball player. I think I just was a kid who enjoyed playing sports and I thank my parents you know every single day um for that they just exposed me to playing all the sports they exposed me to you know even doing things like wakeboarding and water skiing and tennis and snow skiing so you know I always took pride in just being a good athlete. I I don't think me being a baseball player really came into you know maybe the the you know the front windshield until I was you know maybe a senior in high school is when I really took a step back from playing three sports in high school to just two. I ended up just playing football. I skipped basketball season because basketball season always kind of overlapped into baseball season. So that was really the first time I actually had a little bit of like winter baseball leading into the the the spring season but I I've been a huge proponent of kids just being athletes for a lot of the reasons that you mentioned. I don't think a lot of things that I did defensively um playing center field I learned on a baseball field. I think I learned those things you know playing football I think learned that playing uh going to the lake on family vacations when a lot of kids were probably uh you know stuck at home playing you know year-round baseball summer baseball my parents were taking me and my brother and friends of ours we were going to the lake and we were being kids and you know we were getting whipped on inner tubes and learning how to be tough and I talk about bodywareness get thrown off a tube off the back of a jet ski you're gonna learn how to kind of brace yourself for impact you know skipping across the water you know playing you know beach football with my friends or jumping off the back of the boat learning how to catch you know footballs is a big reason I think I became uh not became I think that's a big reason I was able to kind of showcase the type of athlete I was it wasn't because you know from the age five years old all I did was run routes as a center fielder. You know in high school I was an infielder. You know I I played freshman baseball my freshman year in high school and I was I was a good athlete so you know I pitched a little bit I played you know shortstop some second base and you know when I got to my sophomore year high school um you know I I took a big jump kind of maturity I I my my body matured a little bit you know I wasn't a great pitcher nor nor was I a great middle infielder but I could hit and thank thankfully uh I had a high school coach Sid Lopez who who kind of saw the vision and who I was as an athlete and moved me to the outfield and kind of let me be a center fielder who didn't really know how to play the position but could just really run and go get it and allow my best athleticism to show on a baseball field. And you know this is a this is a near and dear topic to me because I think we're in week four of our podcast to the majors uh myself and Cody Allen um host the show and when I moved out here to Texas when I when I retired um I got introduced to Texas youth football um almost immediately I got done playing my son was signed up they needed extra coaches so I became the head coach and I entered a world that I never thought that I would ever see for um you know kindergarten flag football in terms of going to scout these kids and having to rank them and draft them and just the kind of crazy competitiveness that came with um youth sports and you know I met Cody Allen out here who has kids that um we have a kid the same age and he has a couple older kids and we started kind of talking about just the craziness of you know just youth sports in general n you know and obviously baseball being the worst in terms of people feeling like they have to specialize at such a young age to uh you know get to the major leagues which to me is just even a crazy thought if your idea being a six year old as a parent your six year old is to get him to the major leagues I think you're failing your kid. Um and this is something I I I kind of thought about for a long time towards the end of my career and I kind of knew that I wasn't the only one to kind of come from Division II and 32nd round to kind of carve out a major league career. But when I started getting around a lot of parents that have young kids, you know, they started pointing to a lot of these players uh in the major leagues that you know were first rounders or cover of Sports Illustrated or felt like this was the only path or journey players could have in order to get it. So we kind of came up this I idea of you know w interviewing um retired Af baseball players specifically right now and just kind of sharing their journey A to Z. Um it's been kind of great to kind of y hear these great stories of guys in the minor leagues and and their major league stories and the the opportunities that they got to play with some of the game's greatest and some of their uh moments in their career from major league debuts to first home runs, walk-off hits, you know, the end of their career, their injuries their what they over overcame in their career. But the cool part is we're extracting a lot of stories about everyone's journey to get to the major leagues is different starting from when they were little kids. You know, we had Cole Hamilton who was more of a soccer player than baseball player. You know when he was twelve years old he kind of saw the game of soccer passing him by, you know, understood he was left-handed, you know, that he loved baseball and that's the other part too is I think my greatest superpower uh of getting to the major leagues is when I got to college and I was only playing baseball for the first time I had this insane passion and desire to still want to do it first off. Also put in the work that no one else was doing whether it was in the cage or extra reps in the outfield or going you know to the gym at night and trying to get better there's just so many kids that I played with that were probably more talented than me a as a you know during in Little League and maybe even in high school but by the time they had a choice their own choice they wanted to do other things. They were burned out on baseball so I'm the biggest proponent of guys being multi sport athletes for just the athleticism but also for the part that when it really comes when it really is important to want to go out there and put in the extra work and love the game and be passionate about it it's kind of in high school and college or even in the minor leagues because you and I both know you probably played with guys you know in the minor leagues that were probably better than Greg Zahn. But there was probably something that you had within yourself whether it was the love for the game, the passion being able to you know experience failure in other sports um you know ultimately there was something in your career that allowed you to carve out a a a you know a successful and long major league career. And you obviously there's outliers in this world there is the the Mike Trouts the Bryce Harpers the Paul Skeens I mean Paul Skeens is even a crazy story too if you think about his journey to being the best pitcher in baseball but you know there's a handful of that a handful of those guys that maybe specialized at a young age or that were just you know put on this earth to be baseball players and and it worked out but there's probably and and if you look around baseball right now, you know i if there was only first and second rounders on major league rosters then i i you know it there would probably only be one or two rounds but the fact that there's you know 20 to 25 rounds and there's international and you know guys coming out of Indie ball now that are making it there's so many different ways for kids to kind of reach their ultimate goal of potentially being a major leaguer but everyone's journey is a little bit different to getting there.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Yeah no for sure and and and and you you really uh you know curated some great stories there because you know people in today's world especially now that they've cut the draft down to 20 rounds they they they got rid of 40 minor league teams they kind of killed a little bit of the romance in it it's it's it is what it is. But there is a there's there are more ways to get there than than not. But I got you know before I let you go I want I I want you to tell the listeners about your podcast where can they find it really I mean you touched on it but w what's what's the name of the podcast that you're doing with Cody?

SPEAKER_01 36:25

It's called To the Majors. And essentially it's kind of that A to Z motto from the beginning you know starting when do you fall in love with baseball to kind of the last day that you put a professional uniform on and it kind of everything in between YouTube. You can find out you can watch it on YouTube uh you subscribe on YouTube. It's also on audio on you know all kind of podcast platforms out there and it's been um you know we're four weeks in you know we we just had Buck Show Walter you know drop uh uh on week four and you talk about just kind of incredible insight of someone that has been in the game for so long and that has been around some of the best players and kind of the intangibles that he's seen in players and just kind of the evolution of the game for a lot of the you know a lot of the things that we had talked about in terms of you know just how the game's changed right in front of us and and some of it's good some of it's not so good and you know we we love joking on that show that with all this new stuff that's out there um all the new information all the new ways of doing things the cool thing about baseball is the game hasn't changed in a hundred years you know the number of outs are the same the mounds you know roughly in the same place it was the dimensions of the field are roughly the same they've always been you know where the players play on the field have kind of always been the same the objective of the game hasn't changed it's the team who can score more runs and you know get 27 outs quickest is how you win games you know and you can add in all those other things that you know make you feel like you have the best chance to win but at the end of the day it's the team who scores the most runs the team who collects the most outs wins the game.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Kevin I I I could sit around and one of these I might have to have you back on so you know soon because you know one thing we didn't really get to touch on is is the the the outfit and position.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Come on that's good let me get it I wanted to just I wanted to I wanted to uh also mention something else because I know you were uh involved with the Kelowna team out there the Collegiate Summer League team out there and I'm actually going to be and this is good for your audience that's listening in Canada uh I'm gonna be putting out a a formal video next week but during your guys' all-star break which is uh in on Vancouver Island yep correct yes I am going to be um a guest uh for the home run derby format I'm coming out there kind of representing the Blue Jays uh in Canada as uh a guest during the uh home run derby format they have uh this year in July.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah that's wonderful I I'm likely going to be there.

SPEAKER_01 39:03

It's on Victoria it's in Victoria and uh if you've never been to Victoria you'll you'll get a real deal I haven't and it's unbelievable obviously your story's a little bit different but talking to um kind of the people putting on the event there um and I happen to be in uh Lake Tahoe when I was on this phone call and my wife's from Northern California and I'm I'm making this drive from Reno into Tahoe and I'm seeing all these pine trees and the beauty of the lake and stuff and I'm talking about going to Victoria for my first time and I'm like God if I I I'm taking my wife and my kids there and I'm like we might never leave and he's like you're not the only people who you're not the only people that come here and they never leave so I know exactly what you're saying. I haven't been there. I I mean my wife and my kids are so looking forward to watching me in Vancouver for a couple days doing something with the team the the Canadians there and then we're gonna be taking the the ferry over and I can only imagine how beautiful it is that time of year in July.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah buckle up it's pretty amazing I live in an uh in a almost as beautiful place in in Kelowna British Columbia the the 90 mile Lake Okanagan surrounded by vineyards it's you you get the reference when I tell you if Lake Tahoe and Napa Valley had a baby, this is where I live. Oh man it's insane.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yeah and I was you know I I I felt like maybe there was an opportunity um when I was in college to I I don't know if it was a real opportunity, but I definitely remember like that collegiate summer league. And I don't know if Kelowna at the time was part of the Alaskan League or what it was. I obviously knew of Kelowna at the time when I was in college and I remember kind of being sold on this idea where I had teammates of mine that played there and they described it exactly the way you described it and I was always hoping I got a chance to you know as a collegiate athlete come up there and play there because it sounds amazing.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah it's pretty it's pretty insane. It's uh Kelowna is one of the original members of the West Coast League uh same ownership group that has been here for 26 years the Nona's family and uh how have you been how have you been enjoying coaching there and you know kind of on that same topic topic we were talking about what have you kind of seen in terms of I guess the modern day baseball player a lot of these guys just very you know almost robotic to the game are you seeing a lot of the guys that you know have an opportunity to play at this level are you seeing a lot of that multi-sport influence uh on some of the athletes that you're getting sent to you uh no actually I I and quite frankly I haven't actually coached in this league yet it'll be May 29th is our first date okay so you're looking forward to oh god yeah I've been I've been working at this since uh October putting team together selling outfield signs I do a lot of I work a lot of this organization and uh it's been a lot of fun but you know to your point you know I I was in Mexico last year managing the year before that was in the uh the Atlantic leads managing at Kentucky I've seen a lot of these kids you know they are byproducts of the stuff that they're growing up in the picture statistics instead of actually getting to the deck circle to time it up and I finally had the when I was managing it in F I finally had to kick we're not gonna look at the iPad until after our bat and that seems to help them learn how to get timed up kits F I mean if you had a teammate who came right in from defense looking at the iPad and then goes up and swings at the very first pitch of the i bat and he's late on a fastball down the middle, you're probably going to feel as stealthy as I am when I'm thinking well maybe if you had just gone out there and timed him up old school you might have been on time. Instead of you know worrying about the vertical break or the ride or this or that. I'm like, come on dude get ready to hit.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yeah I mean I I feel like kind of just you know m my career arc of like when I played was like you know I played at the very I played I I was in the game long enough ago where we didn't have iPads in the the dugout and you had to like make a an effort. Like you really had to want to go up into the video room to either look at your swing, look at a strike call or a ball call. Like it took a lot of effort. So more than likely you know whatever kind of the issue was whether it was a pitch or your mechanics more than likely could wait till after the game and then you could go into the uh video room with a hitting coach or a teammate of yours and kind of try to you know spitball some ideas try to kind of figure out mechanically what was wrong. And then obviously I played as recently as last year where you know by the time you're you're ground out at first base and you hit the bag, there's someone there waiting with an iPad for you as if you feel like you can, you know, solve the mystery that players have been trying to figure out for the last hundred and fifty years. You know So, you know, the the the ability to have it instantaneously is great, right? And it's it's also very tempting, right? And I think there's value in it, but there's a time and place. You know, I think there's something invaluable of I want to know, you know, roughly I I you know I'm you know new school enough to know what that y and x axis looks like in terms of ride and movement and think and you know the the the vertical and horizontal movement of the guy's pitches. That's all great and dandy, right? On a perfect day, if the pitcher's really got his stuff going, I'm probably not hitting the pitch that has 23 inches of run on it anyways, right? But by me watching the game, maybe he doesn't have the 23 inches of run, or maybe he doesn't have a good feel for it, or maybe his Kerbal doesn't have the 19 inches of drop it normally has. Maybe he's hanging at a ton. There's still a lot of value in me coming back after that bat. You know, one cheering on my teammate so I can, you know, if I'm selfish as oh hell, I want to hit again, so let's cheer on our teammates so I can get up there again. Two, I can also just kind of see what the pitcher has working that day. Does he have a feel for all three pitches or four pitches? And now some of these pitchers have nine pitches. How can I eliminate some of these? So, yeah, there's value in both, but I think there's a ton of value in still watching the game, seeing what the pitcher has, seeing what your teammates are swinging at. Um, you know, that was how we did it for a long time. You know, I can go I can go and look at the the the new charts that we have and know runners in scoring position, he might throw a breaking ball 75% of the chance. That gives me a pretty good insight that maybe I want to sit on a first pitch breaking ball, but what if the guy in front of me with runners in scoring position just whacked that shit off the wall and now he's standing in scoring position? Do you think there's a high likely you know percentage that he's gonna throw another breaking ball right there? You know, the game still kind of tells you, you know, what you should be doing and what you should be looking for.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Amen. Amen. We I was told early by Cal Ripkin Jr. don't ever take your eyes off the field because it'll tell you everything you need to know about the game you're playing today. And you know, I I I learned that at a very early stage in my career, and and so I always never really wanted to take my eyes off the the the field, and and I'm glad I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

And you know, I I I mean how would you feel how would you feel about you know, and obviously there's some good things that come to it, you know, in terms of pitch calling and understanding guys' strengths and weaknesses and all that stuff, but you know, uh a huge part of probably what made you successful as a major league catcher was the relationship that you had with that starter that day, those guys in that bullpen, having an understanding of you know, the the the feel those guys had for those pitches that day, where now everything's coming from their wrist guard, and you know, if you have you know your closer in the game that you know has a nice two-pitch mix and it says, hey, this guy can't hit slider, but you know your closer, slider is not that good that day, but you're kind of handcuffed by hey, this is it says throw sliders to this guy, you know, it it it makes your job difficult back there, and that's you know, ultimately what allowed you to play a long time is to have this great relationship, to have this great feel for calling a game behind home plate.

SPEAKER_00 47:19

Yeah, they they trusted me. And and I and I kind of lucked into it because I came to the big leagues with some pedigree having an uncle that played 24 years at the position. You know, he he taught me a lot about game calling right from the start, you know, 18 years old. I had been calling my game the entire baseball life, like since the league. Um so I understood what it was like to make mistakes. Um, you know, playing with a guy like Brad Osmus, I was he taught me how to digest information at the at the statistical level in a different way that took my game calling to a completely different stratosphere. And the thing that I was able to establish was a trust. When I put something down, more often than not, the guys they threw what I wanted. I told him, I said, look, guys, I don't want to be out here any longer than you do. I got your best interest at heart. So if you just concentrate on making pitches, execute a pitch for me. Don't worry about what I put down. It's the right one right now. It may not be your favorite, but detach yourself from it emotionally, execute a pitch, and we'll get home early. And and that was how it went down most of my career. And uh I was I was able to establish that. You know, there were times when I couldn't throw out the trash, you know, at the end of my career after all the surgeries and guys running me over, I mean I could barely throw it all the way to second base. But I put the right fingers down, I caught it well, I blocked it all the time, and you know, I I I get going on, you know, this one knee style and all this kind of stuff, but at the very heart of my game was that pitcher, catcher, trust, and relationship. And that was the the thing that that drove me to be able to play as long as I did. And uh, you know, I was thankful that I grew up around it. So the the the the way they've got it set up now, I watched the game and I watch it really closely, and I nitpick the heck out of what catchers are doing. Um, you know, I imagine you probably do the same thing with outfielders, is is just watch the way they they they take routes, the breaks that they get on balls, how they're mostly standing still when the ball's being delivered, um things that I never saw you do. And you always got great breaks on balls, and it was fun. Fun to watch, and and I had a I had a blast here talking with you, man. It's it's this was a treat.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

Yeah, let's do it again soon.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

I I would I would love to. We're gonna really get into some of the some of the finer points of the position and and how you see the game going in in today. But uh we got to get out of here because I got the uh Sunday roast coming up. All right. All right, my man. I appreciate it. Hey, thanks, Kevin, for being here. And now the Sunday roast with grains on a lot of major league coaching staffs are full of yes men and inexperienced personnel, and they wonder why they aren't getting the results that they're looking for. Coaches used to spend years in the minor leagues proving their worth and polishing their craft. It was rare to see a guy with little coaching experience land a big league job. Those situations were usually reserved for ex-players with lengthy storied careers. Five teams can say that their director of baseball operations is an ex-big leaguer. That leaves twenty-five teams being run by analytics departments. I love stats. I love to profile people and project lightly outcomes based on numbers. But do analytics guys have any idea what it feels like to go for 0 for 20 and get themselves out of it? Do they know what it feels like to be slightly out of rhythm in a game that requires the ultimate precision to square up 95 plus? Can they say without a doubt what a baseball player looks like based on decades around the game? Well the answer is no. So why aren't they hiring guys who do know? The answer is simple. They're terrified of what we might say in a meeting. We might contradict them, brand their ideas for blasphemy, or mock them openly in a room full of their peers. If they had played and they had any clue, they'd understand that one of the first things we learn as pros is not to show anybody up. The game has devolved into fantasy baseball for guys that never played the game. In my opinion, another failed experiment. The single season record for wins is still 116, 262 is still the record for hits, Cal Ripkin is still the Iron Man, and no one's batted 400 since Ted Williams. What do all these records have in common? They all happen before analytics. If analytics are so great and the players are s bigger, faster, stronger, and way better than us, then why aren't records being smashed left and right? Maybe it's because they hire unqualified yes men and women to coach less polished, specialized early athletes. Here's what hitting coaches have said recently. We need to execute better in the game. We need to drive the ball more. We need to be committed to what we want to swing at, what we're looking for, and just stick with that the whole time, regardless of the situation. That's maybe some of the most selfish, dumb advice I've ever heard come out of a coach's mouth. Don't worry about the situation. Don't worry about having a team at bat. Is the other team gonna all of a sudden feel sorry for you and throw you what you want? Shouldn't the hitting coach be able to offer up how to do it instead of the desired outcomes? Shouldn't they be able to speak from personal experience or years of coaching? And why are they answering questions instead of the players? More often, teams are hiring based on agenda and social narrative. Their hires will say just about anything just so they have a job or to break a ceiling that in my opinion should be made of stone. Big market teams should hire the best qualified, period. The last place teams, they're the ones that take chances on less experienced guys. Because all the teams have hired the good ones that are worth their salt and nobody's left. If I were a player, I'd be livid at the idea of this person in the cage with me has no clue what to say to me, and that they're just going to speak in broad, general, safe space terms that get me absolutely nowhere. Word salads and YouTube gurus and cargo shorts, they don't help solve hitting problems. Experienced coaching does. There are over 30 uniformed coaches currently in the major leagues who never played professional baseball at any level. That's 30 jobs that could have and should have gone to more qualified candidates. Baseball teams need to stop being afraid of what experienced, articulate baseball lifers have to offer and say and hire people that know what they're talking about. Doesn't a coach's mileage, conviction, and the ability to communicate add value and help shorten a player's learning curve? Isn't the goal to give your players their best chance at success? It's Sunday morning. Can you smell that roast?