Season 1 Episode 13

Doggie Gilmour interview

Transcript

0:00

This is Walk Off Slams with Greg Zahn on AM 1150. Welcome back to Walk Off Slams. This is a brand new episode, and I am your host, Greg Zahn, coming to you from the beautiful AM 1150 studios in downtown Kelowna. Well, let's get right into the Jays news. As you well know by now, David Schneider was sent back to the minor leagues when they called up Nathan Luke's, comes off the DL, immediately put him in the top of the lineup to try to get some things going. Schneider, you know, visible guy, energetic guy, versatile guy, just wasn't getting it done on the offensive side of the ball. They had a guy who could play second base on the outfield, and he was a pretty formidable threat power-wise against left-handed pitching, but just wasn't able to get going this year. And you know, for that reason, he's back in triple-A. Pinango is kind of emerged. He can't play any defense in the outfield, but he can swing it a little bit, so they're happy with that. Uh they're they're gonna have to piece this together. They've been treading water since day one. This season has just been one punch in the mouth after another. And uh I think they're uh, you know, doing the best with what they can. They don't have the deepest farm system, uh, too early to make trades, pretty much sink or swim. And you know, it's funny with the Jays, unfortunately, they get healthy, or at least they get something happening, and all of a sudden, you think, okay, we're gonna turn the corner, and we're going to get our regular lineup, regular rotation, everything's gonna happen. I mean, obviously the rotation was a really huge source of pride. There was depth. Well, it evaporated before opening day, and now again, everybody knows you know, Dylan Seas goes on the DL with a hamstring strain, a 15-day DL. And you know, I've been pretty vocal about hamstrings and injuries to soft tissue in Major League Baseball over the years, especially now. Uh I I just don't understand how a guy is throwing a pitch, just a pitch. We're not even talking about fielding his position, running to cover a base. Like, not even in the old days when pitchers hit and they had to run the bases. You're talking about a very mild temperature day, so much so that the roof had to be closed in Toronto. It's not hot, nobody's sweating. In fact, I'd be surprised if anybody broke a sweat that day. It's May, and you're throwing a pitch, and you blow out your hammy? I I just don't understand. I I just you gotta ask yourself, you know, how on earth does a professional athlete land himself on the DL, delivering a pitch. He didn't even look like he fell off balance or anything, and you land on the DL, you pull a hamstring severely enough, doing your regular job. I just don't get it. The players today, they they just they play catch, they hit. How hard can I throw it? How far can I hit it? That's it. You'd you'd understand if these problems were stemming from overuse on the arm, even though in my mind it's a farce, because you know, guys today throw less than they did 30 or 40 years ago, and the amount of injuries to arms, especially under collateral ligaments, it's it's become commonplace. We don't even bat an eyelash when we hear, oh, somebody's got an elbow strain or a forearm strain or there's there's there's a problem with their elbow. We don't even we don't even bat an eyelash. You know, 30 years ago, if somebody had a Tommy John surgery, you're like, oh my god, it's over. You know, these guys are these guys are done. You know, obviously the the technology has made things a lot easier on players to come back. You know, we'll be talking about Derek Schubel later in the program. I mean, this guy's he had surgery in early May and he's already back, but you know, going back to the J's and Cs, I just how on earth can John Schneider and the Blue Jays not be completely pulling their hair out, sitting there thinking to myself, oh, I've got these $30 million a year athletes who can't stay healthy because they're not in baseball shape. They're not fit. You know, this is a guy who the team is depending hugely upon. He was having a very good year. Frustrating at times that he wasn't able to take the next step and really do what the Jays needed, in my opinion. It's not just keeping guys in ball games, it's winning ball games. But how do you not stay fit enough to do your job? What are you doing between starts that throwing a pitch without slipping and falling? It's not August 19th at a hundred degrees outside. You're not sweating your you know what's off. And I just don't get how that can even happen. It's just it in a re in a real-world situation where guys are doing what they need to do to stay fit, to stay hydrated, to stray f to stay fueled, these kind of things should not happen. But you know what? One window closes, another opens. You know, Tanner Andrews has been called up. He's gonna pitch out of the bullpen, uh, presumably until Cisa's spot comes around again, and they're gonna need somebody to step into the rotation, then they can send him down and bring somebody up. Uh, you know, he was putting up pretty solid numbers in Buffalo. Gotta be happy for him. Uh, you know, unfortunately, the theme of it is like we're talking about injuries off the top. Wouldn't it be great if we were talking about, you know, winning streaks and whatnot? Well, but we're talking about injuries, so we're we gotta keep going. We've got to figure this out. Uh, you know, Alejandro Kirk continues to make progress. I know some people might be looking at it going, oh my god, uh he just got put on the 60-day DL. Well, that's just a byproduct of paper shuffling. It's it's to create a roster spot, and he'll be able to come off the DL after the proverbial 60 days retroactive to where he was injured. So no big deal. Uh don't panic, Blue Jays fans. He he's making progress and trending in the right direction. Uh Barger is actually going to start throwing again pretty soon, sooner than I thought. Um I'd still guess that it's going to be a minimum of a couple of weeks. And I'd be very clear with him if I'm the Blue Jays. He would have to pass a series of tests for me. Run the bases full tilt, uh, throw to bases multiple times, play a week's worth of rehab games, because because quite frankly, uh Barger wasn't exactly swinging the bat well when he went on the DL first time, uh, and he only was there one game. So make sure the guy is game ready before you rush him back. So uh, you know, Kirky same boat. He wasn't exactly swinging the bat, wasn't exactly off to a hot start. But both of these guys are gonna be morale boosters for the club. Everybody's looking at this team and going, oh, when are we gonna get our lineup out there? When is the rotation gonna happen? Well, resist the urge to rush these guys. Make them pass a series of fitness tests, make them play enough games, hopefully get them in a rhythm. I mean, you want the you want the real deal Barger that drove in 70 plus runs last year. You want the Alejandro Kirk that you signed to a multi-year deal. So, you know, yes, the morale boost would be huge, but they need an offensive infusion. And if these guys can't get it done and can't get it going in the minor leagues, then wait a day a day or two. Give them an extra few days to get it going. But uh, you know, hats off to John Schneider and the Jays. I mean, they've done a great job treading water, uh, waiting for this team to get to full strength. Uh, good thing for the Jays and anybody else that's kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop and for the worm to turn, so to speak. You know, the league's soft this year. Only four teams in the American League are over 500. Now you remember when we were marveling in previous shows about the NL Central, the entire division being over 500? Well, the entire AL West is under. Under. The entire division is under. Seattle was leading the division last time I checked, and they're two games under 500. It all balances out. You know, you've got 30 teams, and you know, on any given day, you're gonna have 15 games, and there's gonna be a winner and a loser. So it's pretty simple math. You got a whole division over 500, you got a whole division under 500. And the good thing for the Jays is uh, you know, they're only eight and a half back at a raise right now. The bad news is the Yankees are right behind them and they're seven back of New York. It's extremely difficult to leapfrog multiple teams in your in your same division. It really is. And the way they've done the schedule now, you're not gonna see those classic matchups in September. In fact, I think last time I checked, the Yankees and the Rays, or excuse me, the Yankees and the Jays don't even play each other in September. I mean, who does that? Like that that's I don't understand that. I mean, I'm sure the the geniuses over there making the schedule uh are uh you know aware of it, but let's be honest, it's uh it's the Jays. They gotta go out there and beat whoever's in front of them. They gotta start to separate themselves from the rest because it's gonna happen. The league's gonna start to separate, the cream's gonna rise to the top, and the Jays need to be trending in the right direction if they want to be relevant in September. Charles McAdoo is rumored to be getting called up, or by the time you hear this, he probably will have been. I'm not sure what move they're gonna make, but uh they're calling him up for what they say is a need for offense. Well, I'm looking at his slash line and I'm thinking, eh, 250. OPS is average for a big leaguer. It's it's not it's below, right below 800. 800 is usually where you start to say, yep, this guy, this guy can bag a little bit. Uh eight jacks, 27 ribs in triple A. Uh, if these are big league stats, I'm thinking, okay, this guy's having a pretty good year. Uh, if he's a you know halfway decent defender, I like him in my lineup. You know, you you project those numbers out. We're not to the halfway point that you could be looking at, you know, close to 100 RBIs at the end of the season. You could be looking at, you know, 20 homers. Pretty good. Pretty good. Uh, but those are triple A numbers. And so I'm wondering, like, is this what is this what we look at in the minor leagues and think this guy's gonna help me offensively? This is what I'm calling up to help. Yeah, not in my opinion. I mean, good lord, I played with 20 or 30 guys whose careers in the minor leagues were as good, if not better, and they never even got called up. My old roommate Brad Tyler, you could put him, you could book him for 270, 15, and 65, 70 ribs every year, and he played all over the diamond. He never even he was never even considered to be a candidate for a call-up. It's almost like you're giving these guys call-ups nowadays. I just don't get it. I mean, stranger things have happened. I've seen I've seen guys that were 250 minor league hitters come up to the big leagues and scratch out a really nice career. Uh my former teammate Mike Redmond comes to mind, 250 minor league hitter all of a sudden in the big leagues, and now he's a career 300 guy and played 10 years in the show and solid defender, solid guy. So actually managing the big leagues. But uh we'll we'll see. We wish we wish all the luck to Charles McAdoo, and and hopefully for the Jays' sake, he can get hot because you you see that sometimes the lights are better, the balls are a little more juiced, everything's a little bit shinier in the big leagues, and it sometimes it translates. The Jays, you know, they they had a nice series against the Marlins. You know, Marlins are an interesting club. Uh they are some running fools. Uh and they were in the final game of the series. Uh Heineman got credited with four caught stealing. The Marlins did steal five bases, though. Now they're leading the league in stolen bases attempts. They're second in caught stealing. Uh but nine nine stolen base attempts, that's that's a big day. I'm I'm pretty sure Heinemann was icing his arm after the game. Uh, pretty pretty crazy to think that somebody tried to steal nine bases. And in modern day baseball, you just don't see it. But you know, the Marlins, they're they're a team that does that. They live and die by the stolen base, and they certainly died by it the other day. Uh it's it's uh an interesting, interesting situation um to watch old school baseball. Uh and the Jays certainly did the best they could. I mean, four if you're four out of nine uh throwing out runners, you're pretty darn happy, especially for the season. That team, that team runs. And thank God for the the Jays, they kind of gifted it to them. They ran it, ran themselves out of some innings the other day. And yeah, you know, the Jays did what they could to kind of mitigate the running game. Because, you know, if you if you go overnight in stolen bases, that's a different or throwing their throwing runners out, that's a different game result. You don't know what you're gonna get if if some of those guys don't get thrown out. I mean, they they got thrown out two times in one inning in the sixth inning, and it was a one-run ball game. Uh you know, capped off with some really good bullpen work by Hoffman. Yeah, I said it. Hoffman, one and a third. Um, he actually picked off a guy at second base. And uh yeah, maybe we're gonna see some some trending in the right direction. You're getting a kind of a closer by committee, even though I still think Barlin should be hands down the guy. Uh his stuff is so lights up, but you can see how the team is using him. Uh, they're using him when they need outs, and and the game's on the line. And obviously, you you let Rogers close that ball game the other day against the Marlins. Yeah, the numbers don't lie. He's got he's got good numbers and he has that ability to close them as well. It's it's not prototypical unless you go all the way back to say 1979 and Kent to Colby, where you've got a guy throwing from underneath closing out ball games when it was kind of a novelty. But uh the Jays are treading water, as I as I said, and I I think it's uh I think it's good. They're waiting for waiting for guys to get healthy and hopefully it's gonna happen uh sooner than later. Um we're gonna jump into a little quick news around Major League Baseball and some more of the Buster Posey rule. Leading off the latest MLB news. The rules are there to prevent injury, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that that may be a good thing in some ways, but you know, collisions they happened on a regular basis before Buster Posey was injured. Uh they were a part of the game and a part of the game that everybody loved. Um I've been vocal about it. I I think it's been bad for the game. You've taken away a runner's ability to knock the ball out of the glove. Well, kind of. I mean, if the catcher's in the baseline and it's bang bang and you can't avoid, you know, the tag by sliding, you you can run him over. You can't go out of your way to run over a guy. But if he's in the line, you can still truck a catcher. But now it's gotten to the point where we've got a we've got a we've got a generation of catchers who don't expect to get hit. I mean, this is something we used to practice in spring training. They used to have, you know, those football pads and they would whack you. Heck, I've even been hit by a trash can. You know, they simulate collisions at home plate so you learned how to hold on to the ball. They weren't, they weren't even really concerned with your health. They just wanted you to hold on to it. You know, we were always taught to get our left foot pointed straight up the line to try to make sure our knees weren't injured. But these guys nowadays, they I'm I'm I'm kind of half joking when I say, what do they even need a mask for outside of a foul ball? Because there's just no contact. That guys barely even slide feet first into home plate anymore. Even though it's slower and more dangerous to go head first or do the slide past home plate and reach backslide, they're not sliding into home plate aggressively anymore. So I don't really understand it. Um you know, going back to the injury thing and and the new the well, not so new, the Buster Posey rule, players, they just they don't understand. We used to have to brace ourselves from impact because we knew if we got the ball way ahead of time, somebody was going to try to run us over. Most guys would look at their teammates sideways if they didn't try to run the catcher. Because if you're out, you might as well try to inflict some body harm. You might as well try to knock the ball out of the glove. And in today's world, it just doesn't happen. So you get the other day, you know, Wilson Contreras, a former catcher, kind of half-heartedly runs into Victor Caratini from the Twins, and he's on his knees making a play, and you can see Wilson Contreras pull up, and yet Caratini puts his arm around the guy and starts saying, Well, you don't want to do that. You know, let's uh let's not do that. Really? Really, dude? Okay, A, who are you to be talking to Wilson Contreras like that? And B, toughen up, Buttercup. It wasn't even a hard hit. Like, give me a break. The the bench is cleared. Obviously, nothing happens other than a little bit of patty cake when the bench is clear as in Major League Baseball. Rarely do you see any kind of blows being thrown, but it just speaks to a bigger problem uh around the game and these changes. We we don't have any action. I mean, the NFL is like the premier league when it comes to revenue and fan support. They love it. That league's built on collisions. It's awesome when you see that play it plate. It's just it's so exciting. It's it's like for me, it's the most exciting thing. I mean, I was 0 for 4 a lot, so I wanted to be able to help my teammates out, try to block a block a plate, turn a double play, something. I had to do something to help, but you know, these guys right now are just not playing the game hard. I didn't want the umpires to screw it up. I didn't want them to miss the call, so I was trying to block the plate, fold somebody up, but nowadays these guys have just gotten way too soft. This league's got to be looked at, and it's gotta be the rules gotta be looked at and changed. Um, but these guys don't even know what to do anymore. They're kind of in between. Do we do we slide? Do we not? Do we tag? Do we block the plate? Something's gonna give. We'll definitely switch gears a little bit and get to a topic that everybody seems to be wanting to talk about, and that's you know, the Tarek Scuble sweepstakes. Uh, if you follow baseball closely, uh he threw 40 pitches to hitters the other day. I think he had surgery on May 6th, a non-invasive surgery. Now, I don't understand how you remove loose bodies from a body, meaning you got bone chips floating around inside a body. I'm wondering how on earth can you get them out without going in? I gotta look this up, but nevertheless, he had. A surgical procedure and he's already thrown 40 pitches to hitters. It's just it's I'm gobsmacked. I don't even know what to say about that. The modern medicine is just unbelievable. But this is good, this is happening. You know, and when Tarek Schubel comes back and he starts throwing like the two-time Cy Young Award winner that he is, AJ Hinch, my old teammate, and the Detroit Tigers are gonna have some questions that need to be answered. They've got some decisions to make. So, you know, he's gonna be ready to go pretty soon. And you sit there and you think to yourself, do we trade him? Do we not trade him? If we trade him too soon, do we lose the fan base? If we don't trade him, are we missing the hall of prospects? Do we even need to trade him? Because our minor league system is ranked one through six, somewhere between there, uh depending on who you listen to. Uh well, I think they're in an unenviable position. I think they got to trade him because the Detroit Tigers are not a top destination for number one ranked free agents. Just gonna say it. Um, they need to get something in return, but they might be able to use the hall of prospects that they have already in their minority system, couple that with what they're gonna get from the Tarek Scuble deal and go out and get what they need. Now, what do they need? Well, in my opinion, they need some depth in the rotation. Everybody does. Um, they need a third baseman. Uh, you might be able to go out there, yeah, you're gonna lose the Cy Young Award winner, but if you get two or three guys that can step into the rotation that are solid number twos and threes, your rotation just got better because right now the rotation is Terek Skubel, or it was, when he comes back, it's Tarek Schubel, the Cy Young Award winner, and everybody else. Uh you might be able to really establish yourself as the top rotation, get some get some rotational depth, which is what they what they need. Uh they need offense. Their offense is not good. Uh they don't get on base, they don't hit for power. Uh yeah, they need they need some help there too. There's there's a few teams out there that are already being mentioned. Dodgers, Yankees, Padres, Jays, maybe the Brewers depend. The Dodgers, they've got Chase Harlan and Nico Perez in the infield. River Ryan is in absolutely lights out in the Myer Leagues. He'd be a guy. Uh they also have uh former Blue Jay Eric Lower. Once Glasnow and Snell come back, that might be a nice little piece to sweeten the pot in that deal. Uh the Yankees have an interesting situation in George Lumbar Jr., who happens to be the son of the Tigers bench coach, George Sr. Uh Elmer Rodriguez and Ben Hetz are nice looking pitching prospects. Uh the Padres, I don't see them being able to pull it off. They're being rumored, along with the Red Sox, uh, being, you know, send Ethan Sallas, their number one catching prospect to the Red Sox. Uh, just don't see that being able to happen. And I and I just flat out going to tell you, the Jays don't have the prospects in their minor leagues. Because if they did, they'd already be in the show contributing. As needy as they've been and and and hungry for offensive help, they don't have what it's what it's gonna take to pull a guy like Derek Scuble. And again, no offense to Blue Jays land, Toronto's not exactly the destination for number one free agent prospect. So uh it is what it is, gang. Uh there's gonna the rich is gonna get richer. You know, if the Dodgers pull it off, Major League Baseball's heads are gonna collectively explode, and I'm gonna giggle because they just keep getting better and better. When we come back on Walk Off Slams, we'll have a nice interview with my friend Doug Gilmore. You're listening to Walk Off Slams with Graves On on AM 1150. Welcome back to Walk Off Slams. Recently I had a chance to sit down with NHO great Dougie Gilmore and have a little bit of a conversation about baseball and life and dads and uh just a wonderful opportunity for me to reconnect with an old pal. Yeah, let's have a listen. With me is a veteran of 20 seasons in the NHL, seven different teams won a Stan Cup and broke my heart in 1989 with the Calgary Flames. I had just gotten into hockey in the LA Kings, and goodness gracious, they took care of care of my boys out there in LA. Uh he's been a head coach, he's worked in the front office, uh, Ontario native, former Toronto Maple Leaf uh Doug Gilmore. Welcome to the program, Doug. Hey, Greg, good, great to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited. I've been uh trying to get you on the program for a while. I know that uh you you and I met a number of years ago, and uh I I like you right away. There was a lot of similarities in our stories. Uh one I didn't really know about was the the your dad was a correctional officer, and uh, you know, mine was a cop. And I I I was reading a really, really great piece, uh a letter to uh your younger self where you talk about the look that you know your dad could give you, and it was something that didn't even need words, you just knew. Um, and I think you went on to describe Pat Burns as a guy who who had that ability to do that. Um, but you know, just being in the room with you, you can kind of feel kind of a kindred spirit there with you know similar stories. You know, I was a sleight of build catcher. Uh, I know that you know people early in your career probably slighted you a little bit because of you know lack of size and whatnot, but the grit, the determination, um, you know, it kind of fueled you through your career, I bet. And I I I'm just wondering, uh, you're a little older than me. Does that chip on your shoulder ever go away? Uh I I I don't have that much compete level anymore. But uh you know, growing up through the minor or not minor, sorry, minor hockey. Uh you know, it was it was something that you know everybody said I was too small. And I got drafted to Cornwall in the third round, and uh I was defenseman and then I weighed in at camp at about a buck 35. Um I said, oh by the way, you're a centerman now. So I took it because defense and center is kind of the same. You you see the whole ice in front of you, and uh I just learned I I watched a lot of uh NHL players how they played center and uh take it from there. So um yeah, I you know you gotta thank uh the naysayers on me because uh that's where I thrived and said, okay, I'm gonna get there. Yeah, I I I feel like the same. I was you know really small. I don't think I cleared five foot until my freshman year in high school, and and I was you know dug in on being a catcher, had to be a catcher, and everybody's like, oh no. And it's funny now they they're all looking for you know kind of stockier, shorter guys now to to do certain positions, how the games have changed. Um but I I noticed, you know, you you grew up playing hockey and and I remember you and I talking, I think you shared some really great photos with me of your of your dad, uh how he was uh really big into baseball and uh you know growing up there in Kingston. Uh tell me a little bit about you know his love for the game and and how it kind of affected your love of the game because I I read some really cool things about you and baseball, so I I'd love to know where that all comes from. Yeah, so I am my brother is 13 years older than I am, and uh my dad was a baseball guy, was not a hockey guy. So he got into baseball and hockey. Um he did very well. He played with the London Knights with Daryl Sittler and Dan Maloney. Um I watched him play a little bit. He played about eight years in the minors, and then when he shut it down, he came back and became uh correctional uh guy that would work with at Millhaven would work with all the inmates in uh the sporting departments. So remember as a 16-year-old, you I uh we have a ball game in the prison against the inmates, and you know again, I'm a little guy and walking in there. Um it was it was kind of surreal, but it was uh it was something that I always say they don't have too many away games, so we had to go in there. So like but for me growing up, I played baseball as well. Um I played a lot of fast pitch. And uh again, I uh my brother was on the team as well. And and again, um what he the mistakes he made was Grapes always said, Don Cherry always said that, oh, by the way, Doug, he was a much better player than you. But he but he didn't like criticism. And that's something that uh I learned from my brother who said, you know what, coaches yell right or you do something, just accept it and move on. Yeah, the uh Grapes was a bit of a mentor for me when I started in the TV business there. And it's funny too, I when I was playing for the Blue Jays in the American League East, it was you know the days of uh you know the the the Yankee juggernaut teams with Jeter and and Mariano and Pettit and Posada, and then of course you go to Boston and it's you know Poppy and Manny and those guys. We called it prison rules baseball, but I think you you got you got exposed to something else that was more prison rules than than what I was experiencing. Yeah, so again, my dad uh um played baseball probably into his late 40s, uh played a little bit in the New York State League, um like a trip, not a triple A, just a single A kind of thing. And um after he put my uh brother through hockey, and he got to know the game a little bit, and then uh um you know again I played both sports, but uh hockey was uh better for me. Well you're a busy guy these days. I know you you you've done a lot of different things. I I I feel like um I might be taken after you in that that that perspective because I'm you know doing sales and marketing, coaching, doing all kinds of stuff. You've been a front office guy, busy, busy. Um do you get a chance to watch much baseball these days? Oh, I watch almost every game, uh the Blue Jays. So um, you know, Dan Schild was uh a friend as well. So uh during the game, I'm texting Dan, going, Hey, what's going on? He gets right back to me just like that. He's he's such a professional. So uh yeah, I I watch a lot of baseball, and you know what you mentioned uh uh I was with the Toronto Marlies for a little bit, and I got a call from my hometown, Kingston, to the junior A team, uh the front next to go there. So I spent uh 11 years back in Kingston. Um got to spend time with my parents before they moved on or passed on. So um, as you guys know, the Kelowna, the Memorial Cup's there right now. And yeah, it's uh that's the league I was uh coaching in, and then I became uh general manager for eight years. Yeah, I literally live right across the street from Prospera Place and here in Kelowna. Um, and everybody's in town. The the whole town is buzzing. Um unfortunately for us, our opening night is is up against Memorial Cup. So I I don't imagine uh we're gonna be getting too many fans, and that's kind of why we were giving away Costco memberships to draw some of the people that didn't get hockey tickets to come to the ball game. So uh you say you're watching a lot of the Jays games now. Um who's your favorite player on the Jays right now? Again, I played first base uh or outfield, so um Bladdy's my favorite. Um, you know, for him to change positions and uh to be a pretty good uh defensive player as well. So uh again, it's it's sad right now with all the injuries and it just uh keeps on going, but they're they're they're still finding a way to get uh some some uh games in. So uh their pitching is going to be pretty good considering uh the guys that they're missing. Yeah, no doubt. I mean they're they're they're kind of treading water, as I like to say, you know, all the injuries that have happened. You know, they they got real close last year, game seven of the World Series. You know, you you experience the the the pinnacle, the top of the mountain. You you win a Stanley Cup in '89, and then some frustrating things happen. What's it like when when you get to the top of the mountain as a as an athlete, and then you sit there and you think, oh, okay, we're here, and we're gonna be able to do this. We're gonna be able to keep you know, keep going. How frustrating is it to go from the the top of the mountain to dealing with all the other stuff, just like one year later, injuries, uh front office type of stuff, contract issues. Um, how tough is that to deal with as an athlete? Yeah, I think uh I was fortunate enough to win it my six-year pro. And uh we won the president's trophy that year, so it was a phenomenal year. We had a little centerman, our fourth line center was a guy named Theo Fleury. And he's he's not a fourth line center by any means, but that's how stacked we were. And um Mike Vernon was a great goaltender and we found a way to win. And then, you know, as time goes on, uh changes uh are made and you know, contracts and different things that go on. And I moved on to Toronto and I spent five and a half years there that uh I'll never forget. Um we got close, but we didn't get close enough. Do you think that the uh there's always the chicken and the egg conversation? Do you think culture comes first or winning? How do you think that works in in a in a dressing room? I you know there's so many leaders on that hockey team. I'll go back to Calgary. And that didn't have a letter on. And it just meant that uh you know, Lanny was the voice for us, um, settled us down. And um again, I could go through 10, 12 guys on that team that were leaders, and you know, you just kind of follow their routine and and uh just make sure you're you're prepped before the game and ready to go. As you moved on in your in your coaching career, did you find yourself um becoming kind of attached to some of the players, almost rooting more for certain guys than than others? Yeah, it's junior's a little bit different because you're you could have them for two years or you can have them for four years. So sometimes in the draft when you're taking a first round pick and he's a good player, um I passed a Mitch Marter because I know he was gonna be a two-year player and gone. So I took uh Lawson Krause, a big left winger, that uh still playing the NHL this day, and I had him for four years, so you don't have to trade for a piece like that as went on. So it's uh it's a little bit different. You have a 50-man uh roster every draft, and you get 15 uh rounds, and then you gotta delete 15 players. So you might have a guy that uh you might keep on the list, that maybe he's committed to NCAA. Again, the rules have changed since then, but um you just there's a lot of uh kind of little moves that it's it's not easy to make, but it's not hard to make. And sometimes you gotta sell some players to make your team better for the next year. Yeah, so I guess i I'm finding it to be difficult as as well, you know, trying to put together rosters and and and and not be overly involved and and overly committed to one guy. I know a lot of people are probably wondering, like, you you were doing all these crazy things, you know, coaching, front office guy. What are you doing these days? Why do you what are you doing for for fun? Well, after um my last uh draft, we drafted a kid named Shane Wright, and I just said to the team, I said, guys, my parents have passed on now, and I live in Burlington, but I go to Kingston every weekend pretty much for eight, nine months of the year. So that drive got to me, and uh as soon as I shut it down with uh the front acts, I got a call from the Toronto Maple Leaves to be an ambassador, and uh there's five of us, there's Daryl, um uh Curtis Joseph, uh Darcy Tucker, Wendell, and I so we do a lot of the charity stuff that's around here. Um I do a lot of stuff with a company called Jackson Events that uh put on a lot of uh great things for Easter Seals. Yeah. And I just uh I got a call last week and I'm in Niagara Falls tonight for a banquet. So well, there you go. I think I think the the ja Andrew Jackson does a great job of the that we've that we've put on. I I think I got a chance to play in uh Wendell's barn before he sold the farm. Yes. They always want a goalie even when they can't skate like me. Just so somebody to fire pucks at. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, hey, Doug, I really appreciate the time, man. It's just really great catching up with you. And I hope that uh you know, if you're in Kelowna or if I'm in Toronto, uh let's get together for uh a cup of coffee or uh social soda or whatever. Maybe uh sounds good. You ever get the blades on anymore? Are you playing in any of the events? You you know what? Yeah, I'm uh I took a a year and a half off, and then last year I said, you know what, I don't like stand behind the bench in a charity event. And yeah, I said, I'm gonna put them back on. Well, good. Because I I I'm getting the itch too because I still growing up in LA, Marcel Dion was one of my guys, and we were playing in one of those uh Easter Steels events, and I actually made a like a diving stop on Marcel, and he went came up to me afterwards and he's like, You gotta be kidding me. He goes, I can't believe you can do it doing the old king like that. So I missed I miss those days of fun, fun times, kind of you know, intermingling different sports guys, and uh always been a pleasure. And I I thank you again for taking the time to be here. Hey, Zani, my pleasure, man. Great, great to uh hear from you. Great to see you. Take care, bud. See you, man. That was a great time with Doug. You sitting down, great to catch up with him. You and I met you know a number of years back working for some Easter Steels events that usually ended up you know being pickup hockey games. Uh uh really great guys, just a wonderful culture, these NHL alumni dudes, but you know, they're they're sports fans nonetheless. And uh, you know, Doug is a huge baseball fan. I had a great time talking with him. It's just you know, when when you when you catch up with guys or you meet dudes that you vibe with, that you understand, you you can see the similarities in the upbringing, the stories that people uh tell, and the the ones that that get you and the ones that you get. You have similar stories and paths to the top of the mountain, and and and there's a lot of parallels uh between Doug and myself. I I really enjoyed uh getting a chance to sit down with him and even better getting a chance to meet with him. Uh can't wait to put the blades back on and jump out there on the on the ice and and hopefully uh stop a fuck or two. But uh when I come back on walk-off slabs, your favorite part, my favorite part, the sundae roast. And now the Sunday roast with great song. What on earth is going on in San Francisco? They're 10 games below 500 and somehow spending all their time making up celebrations that involve a series of pelvic thrusts. Major League Baseball had to send the seats and desist, and of course, the Giants players react to the edict in a mocking fashion. Frankly, I don't understand what there is to celebrate in San Francisco right now or how they find the time between all the losses to come up with these antics. You have a $200 million payroll, and only the Rockies have a worse record than you in the league. They've got a pitching coach calling the game from the bench, so what's the San Francisco Giants excuse? Maybe it's time to focus on things that matter, like winning games and how that gets done in professional baseball. Celebrations are for winners. The Giants are 29th in run scored, 28th in on base percentage, 21st in team ERA, they have the 7th most walks and ranked 22nd in strikeouts. I imagine Giants fans are finding it hard to see what there is to celebrate, let alone in such an embarrassingly engraphic public way. Who's in charge over there? Oh yeah, the college guy, the one who had the culture issues at Tennessee. His team's had a reputation for being unsportsmanlike and unprofessional. The unprofessional you can understand, because the kids aren't professional baseball players, but the unsportsmanlike part, it's classless and ridiculous. I don't agree with putting someone in a leadership role who's never led professional grown men with families. I'm on record as saying I can see hiring someone with no pro managing experience as an A-ball guy, but not the big leagues. Pro ball and college ball are different, and so are the players. Both groups have bats and balls and gloves, but it's a different game. The athletes are on a different level and so is their attitude. The culture that would encourage publicly demonstrative celebrations of any kind when you're 10 games under 500 is a ridiculous one. I understand baseball is supposed to be fun, but it's also a job. It ain't college ball, and the name on the front of the jersey is the important one. Did ownership really wait for Major League Baseball to step in here? Hard to believe anyone in the Giants uniform would think this sort of thing was acceptable. The players should be focused on winning games first and then figure out the dugout dance and all the costumes that go with it. Modern-day athletes celebrate the most fundamental execution of their job, first-base celebrations after meaningless no-out, no-one-on-base hits. Why? Are they scared that they're never gonna do it again? It reeks of insecurity. Can you imagine a postal worker dropping his bag on your lawn to crotch chop himself in order to celebrate the delivery of your mail? Now picture everyone else on earth requiring a costume, a special handshake, or a choreographed dance to mark the completion of the most simple tasks on earth. I'm all for enjoying the moment in the dugout, but it's gotten out of hand. Celebrations are for winners. Losers need to stay humble and earn the right to celebrate. We love watching great players make great plays. We love watching great teams win. I remember when high five became a thing. I was a kid when Dusty Baker and Glenn Burke first deployed to Hanchester on October 2nd, 1977. I was six years old and everybody thought that was crazy. It became a phenomenon and variations of it have become the norm over the decades. Dry hunting the air in front of families has taken celebration a little bit too far. I can't help but think of the Giants manager had any credit again in 3, 2, 1. I can't help but think if the Giants manager had any street cred with his players, or anybody else's for that matter, we would have never seen something like this happen on a Major League Diamond again with a team that's 10 games under 500 and dead near last in every major category. I can't believe it took action by Major League Baseball to end it. Former players like Kurt Suzuki are on lame duck one year contracts to begin their managerial careers, and the Giants are tethered to a three year experiment with a college guy whose players are pelvic thrusting their way to mediocrity. It's Sunday. Can you smell that roast?