What Makes First Aid Training Memorable? With Chloe Betts

In Episode 7 of Voices in VET, we're joined by Chloe Betts from Central West First Aid Training Specialists, an Allens Training partner, current paramedic and business owner to explore what makes first aid training truly memorable. 

Drawing on years of frontline experience, Chloe shares how real-world emergency response has shaped the way she delivers training and why building confidence is just as important as teaching practical skills. From realistic scenarios and learner engagement to creating training experiences that students remember long after they've left the classroom, this episode explores the qualities that make great first aid education. 

We also discuss the importance of preparing students to act when it matters most, the value of creating a positive and supportive learning environment, and why authentic stories and practical experience can have such a lasting impact on learner confidence. 

Beyond the classroom, Chloe shares her journey of growing Central West First Aid Training Specialists, building a strong professional presence on LinkedIn and social media, and the role networking has played in the success of her business. She also discusses balancing family life with running a growing organisation and offers practical advice for trainers and business owners looking to grow both professionally and personally. 

Throughout this episode, we cover: 

• Bringing frontline paramedic experience into the training room
• Creating engaging and memorable learning experiences
• Building student confidence through realistic training
• The difference between completing training and feeling ready to respond
• Growing a successful training business
• Building professional networks through social media
• Balancing business, family and professional development

Whether you're a trainer, assessor, business owner, or simply passionate about quality first aid education, this episode is full of practical insights, real-world experiences and ideas that can help create training that leaves a lasting impact.
 
Learn more about Central West First Aid Training Specialists:
https://www.centralwestfirstaidtraining.com.au/
 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Voices in Vet. I'm your host, Taylor Leeson. In every first aid course, there's one goal that sits above everything else: giving people the confidence to step forward when someone needs help. But what is it that makes training truly memorable? Is it industry experience, realistic training scenarios, or the way a trainer conducts with their students? Joining us today is Chloe Betts from Central West First Aid Training Specialist, an Allen's training partner and current paramedic. Chloe has built a successful training organization known for delivering highly engaging first aid training and consistently receiving outstanding student feedback. Throughout today's conversation, we'll explore how frontline experiences shape the way we teach, what makes training truly memorable, and how to build students' confidence, building a strong professional network and balancing a family life along the way. Chloe, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. Can you give us a bit of background about yourself and how you got into training from being a paramedic?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'm Chloe. I run Central West First Aid Training Specialist. I am an intensive care and an extended care paramedic, and I've been on road for 11 years. I've sort of spent half of that time was in Southwest Sydney in like Bankstown, Liverpool areas, and then which was great for exposure and experience and quite colourful. And then I've spent half of the time out in the Central West in Bathurst, Orange, Conundra, and Walgott. The time in Southwest Sydney, we were really blessed. We had every resource we could need within sort of 20 minutes on a scene. And then the time out west, we feel the strains of geographical isolation, just like a lot of our community is where we're from. And so it was during that time that what we came to realize was it actually is what people do before we get there that actually has the potential to change a patient's outcome. So that's sort of why we started it. Um so I mean, yeah, I've been on road for 11 years. I am a mum, I've got three young children, and I've got a husband that I've been married to for 10 years, which is really weird because I don't understand how I've been married for that long. I feel like I'm still 23 years old. Um, but he spends more time on a tractor baling hay than he does at home at the moment because we just bought a farm. So yeah, that's you really do it all. Look, we troll.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

We really try. So you've mentioned that you work in, you've worked in like the high pressure environments being intensive care paramedic from the frontline ambulance work that you do through to the mining and disaster response as well that I know you do. How much has that shaped the way you approach training?

SPEAKER_01 2:22

I think it's hugely changed the way I approach it because I think that I mean, training is a is it's a compliance issue, right? Like people have to have their first aid for workplaces, for example. But there's a very big difference between getting the certificate and actually being prepared to respond. And what we know is that when we are responding to an emergency and we feel like our brain completely empties and we switch into something called the amygdala in our brain, which is that fight or flight response, what we know is we actually fall back into muscle memory. So if we can create muscle memory in that training course and make it largely practical, then we're better preparing people to be able to step in and do something.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

From your perspective, what makes first aid training memorable for students?

SPEAKER_01 3:06

I think what makes first aid training memorable for students is I feel really passionately about it's not just about having numbers in your course, it's about connecting with the person. And I think that this is gonna sound a little bit different, but no one cares more about you than you. And that's really important. You can feel selfish about yourself. But the thing is, you want to feel heard. So when people are in courses and they're sharing their experiences or their perspectives or they're asking questions, there's a very big difference between listening to somebody and actually hearing them. And I think in today's world, something we lack is that human connection. And so I think that's what makes it memorable. People want to leave feeling empowered, but they also want to feel heard.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

It's a really different and unique way to look at it, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's very, it's very different. We do, we all care about ourselves and get caught up in just about us, really.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

It is, and I think anybody can teach CPR, right? Like place a heel of your hand in the center of the chest. Like some days, I swear, I even say to Aaron all the time, when I'm training sometimes and you're you're sort of going through the motions, sometimes I catch my mind thinking about other things at the same time because I do it so often. But what makes it just second nature to you? Yeah, but what makes it different is actually hearing somebody and connecting with somebody. And I think I listened to a podcast with Stephen Bartlett, and I genuinely believe in a world of AI, what wins is the human connection and interaction. And it does because that's what leaves a lasting impression.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

As humans, we crave the human connection really. Yeah, yeah. With that, then going into because you do a lot of realistic training. Why do you think students respond differently when training feels more realistic?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Because I think that it's creating a lived experience. So we have to be careful of vicarious trauma. First aid training should not be about me dumping all of my war stories on you, right? Because the problem that we have with that is you create we create vicarious trauma whereby you now create a picture in your head about how that might have looked for me. And it might not be the way it looked, but that creates a trauma response in you. So we don't want to be doing trainings, setting up stories. But what we do want to do is make it realistic because a lot of people who come and do first aid, we do a lot of work with mines. Miners, as a workforce and demographic, they are kinesthetic learners. They learn with their hands. They don't learn sitting in front of a PowerPoint. And of course, you have to go through the compliance stuff. But what we want to do, like I said with that fight or flight response, we want them to fall back into the muscle memory. You're only going to shape it by simulation-based learning. So using their first aid kits that they have on site with expired equipment because otherwise very bad for the environment. So I think that that makes a different experience.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah, it's the muscle, it's the muscle memory that you rely on when you're in the situation. If you've got to do CPR or provide some type of first aid, especially in like traumatic injuries, that's it's the muscle memory.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

It's like with paramedics. I think our bread and butter is cardiac arrest. A cardiac arrest is something that we should be able to do really well because we practice it all the time. So even in that stressful situation, you can tune out and rely that, rely on your hands will do the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, well, I think we've just answered the next question that I was going to ask you, which was about is there a difference between students completing training and then students feeling confident to step in during a real emergency? Massively.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

And I think it's about you've got to find a balance, right? Because you have to tick the box with two minutes of CPR. You don't want to tell them all of your war stories about cardiac arrest, but you also need to prepare them for a realistic situation. So it's finding that balance that I think makes them leave feeling empowered. Do you find finding that balance is hard or has it just kind of come with time and I found a bit of an ability to read the room because I think sometimes you'll find there are people in the class that maybe are quite vulnerable and fragile and maybe have had some really big um big things happen in their past. Because, you know, if you said to me, Oh, this is the worst day ever, it depends on your experience. If you were someone that grew up with a lot of childhood trauma, then the worst day will be very different to somebody that hasn't had that experience. But it doesn't make one less than the other. So you have to sort of read the room to have you got people in the room that maybe won't cope with more realistic training, or have you got people that actually want the hands-on full experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Did that answer that, or did I go around? No, that's a really good answer. It's also a very different look to everything and how some people may think about training. And it's a just a different takeaway that is beneficial. I'm a bit of a woo-woo girl too.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

I'm a bit woo-woo.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

I guess leading into that then, what do you think some things trainers do unintentionally that disengage students during a first aid course?

SPEAKER_01 7:48

I love this. So I think there is a big difference between confidence and cockiness and arrogance. And I think sometimes we get the balance really wrong. And I have lectured in paramedicine with the undergrad paramedic students in Bathurst. And when I first started, I remember being in that classroom and I had these students in front of me, and I had some that, you know, they were there for the learning and they had their notebook and they were so engaged and so interested, and they wanted to get a lot out of it. And then there were people up the back that were just sat back on their chairs, quite clearly didn't want to be there. And I remember initially I was like, well, I'm not gonna try with you because you don't want to be here. So I will put my time and energy into the people that do. But what I actually found really interesting as time went on, I got much more satisfaction out of engaging those that weren't engaged than just building on the people that were engaged. So I think that that's something that we get a little bit wrong. And I think sometimes it's that listening and hearing thing. I think sometimes we listen, but we don't hear because we're just waiting for the opportunity to respond. So I think some trainers, and I think this is only from speaking to students that have had past experiences. Sometimes they they sort of ask a trainer something, but they feel like, sorry, the trainer asks them something, but they feel like it was only because they wanted to tell them something and they talk at them. People don't want that. People want the connection of talking with them. So I think that's probably what disengages people. And I think you can never tell somebody they're wrong, right? Like, don't get me wrong, I say all the time, like in a when we do fully face-to-face, I will say to them, like, what have you been told about rescue breaths? Because there's 10,000 things out there, there's no right or wrong answer. What have you heard previously? And you hear some really interesting things. And this guy said to me, We're in a mind site. And he was like, Well, I've been told that if someone's choking, what you should do is blow really forcefully into their mouth and maybe it'll go down further. And I was like, you know, I said, like, there's no right or wrong. It might be wrong in this situation. But other than that example, I feel like there's a way that if somebody is going down the wrong path, if maybe what they're they're thinking to do is incorrect, there's a way that you can shape it to encourage them towards the right way without just saying that's wrong. Because that's awful. Nobody wants to feel embarrassed or feel like they're told they're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yeah, you don't want to be told that you're wrong. It's also then you can kind of phrase in a way that then you can hopefully like reshape their thinking and then they can also think about being, oh yeah, maybe it was. And especially people who've been doing first aid training for so long. So long. We've had changes over the years. So you know, you just fall back into 10 years ago you used to do this where it's now changed.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And I think it's supporting it, you know, and it acknowledging when people say, like, oh, it changes all the time. You can't keep up. I get it, it is so frustrating. I can see how frustrating that is, and I understand that. That's enough sometimes. Even Aaron, my husband, he was um, he's been training at a mind site all week, and he had a guy over two days, and on day one, he was saying to me, like, oh, got this guy in the course, and he just wants to argue about everything and he just will not listen. And then after the second day, I was like, Well, how did today go? And he was like, you know what was really cool? I think we won him over. Like we actually had a really cool conversation at the end. There's more satisfaction in that than just ticking a box.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

I think a lot of trainers also can understand the pain of that when they just have that one shooter that always argues back. Like I think a lot I think it will resonate with a lot of trainers.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yeah, I think sometimes, like, you know, you when you walk into a group, if you're doing a fully face-to-face delivery, if you have a good group, you're just like, oh, it's such a good day, and you can build off the energy. And then when you get maybe a group that they're there for all the right reasons, but they're just there to get the job done. There's they they're not keen to interact, they're not very lively, and you're like, ooh.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Sometimes it's harder.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

So obviously we've just spoken about some things trainers do to unintentionally disengage students. What do you think are the small things though that great trainers do that students always remember?

SPEAKER_01 11:58

I think empowering somebody, if you can make somebody feel empowered, I think you've done a really good job. What we know is when we talk about the development of mental health conditions post-responding to emergencies. So things like post-traumatic stress responses and then at times the resultant post-traumatic stress disorder. And I always say this is not putting everybody with mental health conditions in one group because people suffer it for a range of reasons. But what we know is if we can walk away with the mentality of I did the best I could with what I had at the time, nothing more I would have done would have changed that. You are much more likely. Close the door, move on to the next day. Versus when you start to go, I couldn't remember how to do CPR. If I had been there earlier, should I have done rescue breaths? I can't remember, was that the right decision? That's when things start to unravel a little bit. And so I think if you can, if somebody can leave the classroom feeling really empowered, but also feeling um resolute in their understanding of things, that's really important. Rather than walking out going, so I don't get it. Do I do rescue rats or do I not?

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Because I can't remember. It's knowing that they're capable and then whatever they do if they face such situation that they have done enough. You receive strong student feedback around trainer knowledge, engagement, training quality, including comments from people who've completed CPR training every year, saying it's the best training they've received in 16 or 17 years. What do you think is contributing to the success and growth of I think there's a few things.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I try and make the experience from the start to the end super simple. So I think the most important business decision I can make is how I hire people. Because at the end of the day, who you hire is going to represent your brand and is going to owe to your success. So I feel like I'm quite strategic in that process. So I know that the girls that work with us that do um like our operations management and admin, they are very, very good at what they do. So I feel like if a student reaches out, they they can't figure out how to log in, get their system working, they are very, very good at supporting them through that process. But I think it's I feel like I'm just repeating myself what I truly believe it's in that room, them feeling heard, them feeling acknowledged, and leaving with sound instructions. Do you know what I mean? There's nothing vague about it. This is exactly what you need to do. I think that that's probably and I think I also talk about rather than so cardiac arrest, for example, rather than just harping on about um the doom and gloom of it, I talk to things about our survival rates are increasing. Some of the reasons for that, high performance CPR, that's one reason. Another thing is mechanical CPR devices. And I actually in our um in our CPR training, we show a video of a Lucas device, which is what we use on road. And my purpose for showing them, it's not to create that trauma response for them. I only pick videos that have good outcomes for that reason, but it's because one, I want them to be exposed to it so that if they are in the community, they're doing CPR on someone, we turn up to assist them. Chances are they will see us put one on. So I want them to be exposed to it, but I actually want it to give them hope because it's a big reason our survival rates are increasing. So I think it's giving that knowledge and giving them hope, making them feel empowered that changes.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Can you explain a little bit more about what the is it the Lucas system, what that is in case people haven't heard of it?

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, so the Lucas device is a mechanical CPR device. Uh, we've had it on road, don't quote me on this, but it's about five or six years. Essentially, the way it works, a hardboard goes underneath the patient's back and a plunger drops down onto their chest and it measures the distance between the two. So it does the perfect compressions for that person's chest. Because we talk a lot about, you know, you want to compress a third of the depth of the chest. You're not gonna get a measuring stick out at that moment, are you? So that device, perfect compressions. The other thing is what we know is for every compression we miss, it can take 20 to 30 to build the pressure up that you've just lost. So an automatic CPR machine, we don't miss compressions. What we used to find on road is if we were trying to get the patient from wherever they'd arrested into the back of the ambulance, you're missing compressions in that movement phase. And that's inevitable because you've got to get them into the ambulance. However, with the Lucas device, we can continue that throughout that process. The other thing is it's there's very strict guidelines though on who we can use it. So you'll never see us put one on a child, a pregnant woman in cardiac arrest, you won't see a traumatic situation like a car accident, a fall, a crush. Uh, and the person has to unfortunately physically be able to fit inside because it's sort of like a dome. So if it's quite a large person, then unfortunately it just won't fit.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

It's really the first time I've heard about it and being used. I think I've seen stuff on social media about but that it's actually being used. And I guess as well, being out on road, and if you're further away from a hospital, would also be very beneficial and very helpful just to increase the chance of survival, like you mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah, it is really, really cool. There is another device coming out at the moment. Um, it's not being used by state services yet, but it was in America, and it's basically it's designed by Zoll, but it's like a hardboard that goes under their back again, but like a band just goes over their chest and it provides circumferential CPR. Now, the benefit is it was actually built for the American cohort that can be a little bit bigger than Australians, and so it will fit on the biggest of people and the smallest of people. So that's another device that I think you'll start to see. I think it's out in Western Australia and a lot of the mines, but we haven't seen it yet in New South Wales.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Uh I think it's really interesting as well, all the new devices that are coming out, and some that you may not know and sometimes may not be spoken about in all first aid courses, too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

And you've got to find little like intricacies and differences because the other thing is no one wants to do the same thing over and over again. And the hard thing is, CPR, there's only so many ways you can teach at RAS.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

And if you're coming back every year as well, it can get a bit repetitive, especially if you've done it for 16 years or so.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Exactly. So we change all of our content every 12 months because I don't want the course you do today to be the same as next year. I need it to be different for your experience.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Now, speaking about your job, has it ever been a real job or moment where your paramedic career that has completely changed the way that you teach first aid? So something that may have happened on road that you would then change the way you teach?

SPEAKER_01 18:21

I don't know that there's a job in particular. I think it's probably 11 years is quite a long time to have been on road. And I think it's probably a combination of seeing quite a lot of jobs with poor outcomes with people who didn't know what to do in that situation. And I think that that's made me feel really motivated. I genuinely, my goal is to improve the quality of first aid training and learner engagement. They are like my two biggest things I want to do because I actually see the difference it can make. And it's not about somebody being on scene, being like, I know first aid and ignoting themselves at all. It's just about somebody actually having the confidence and knowing what to do in that situation. I was um, it was really random, but I flew to London for a day the other week. Yeah. And when I was on my way over there, I was sitting next to this guy, didn't know him from a bar of soap. And as we're coming into land in Singapore, I saw him like lurch forward and there was a pillow behind his chair, and he grabbed it, it was white, and he grabbed it and like threw his face in it and leant forward. And I remember out of the corner of my eye, I was like, What's going on? I thought, is he gonna vomit? That was my first thought. And I I am petrified of vomit. So I was like, oh, not today. Not today. And then he pulled it away and it was covered in blood. And I saw his nose was um streaming, he actually had an arterial nosebleed, which is really random because you wouldn't think you'd have arteries in your nose. Um, nosebleeds can rarely, very rarely, be life-threatening because you do have arteries right at the back here. And I looked over at him and I just took a second and he just sat there like this, and I thought, pinch your nose, like pinch your nose. And so I like leant over and grabbed it myself. And I remember thinking, I was like, how didn't you know to pinch your nose? But then at the same time, it's intuitive to me, but it's not intuitive to everybody. And it's trying to remember that because for him, that's I mean, maybe I don't know, maybe he's an IT wizard and that's not intuitive to me, but it is for him. So that's why I feel passionately about it.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Did that answer the question or did we go on and like No, that it didn't. It I no, it did definitely answer the question because you've seen, obviously being on road, you've seen that sometimes if you don't have the knowledge or the, you know, doing a first aid course, you don't know what to do. And you don't, it's not someone sticking their hand up saying, I know CPR, I've done a first aid course once. But sometimes, and I know I've heard it from some first aid courses that I've done, is even if you're the one that knows how to do CPR, you can instruct other people. You don't have to do the CPR, you can instruct other people to go grab the D FID to call help. This is how you start CPR, so then you can swap.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

And you know what it is as well? Empowering people to have the confidence enough to know their limits. Because the reality is just because you have your first aid certificate in the community setting, you are under no obligation to assist if you don't feel comfortable. That is also okay. But maybe you can instruct somebody else what to do if you know. If you don't want to have that sensory experience, that's acceptable. So it's also empowering people with that knowledge as well, because you you're not expected to. And you can only work to your capabilities. So if you can't do something or you're at your bandwidth, that's also okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

And you don't have to be the person that's on the plane if they say, Is there a medical professional here? You don't have to put your hands up. Doctor of philosophy. What's something that the public often misunderstands about emergencies or what happens before the paramedics arrive?

SPEAKER_01 21:41

So I think something that the public misunderstand unless they've been involved in an emergency situation is the way our brains are wired. So if something were to happen in the room right now, right, like we heard a big bang upstairs or one of us went unconscious, what the other person would do is actually revert back into it was actually. Our caveman brain, what we had back then. And our caveman brain was really effective because it was that fight or flight response. So you needed to know if you were being chased. The other two responses you might have are freeze and fawn. Mine is freeze. I'm very acutely aware of it. So when we go into jobs, I always, as I'm entering a job, I always clear the path because I know that I'll freeze. So I need to clear a path. So in the event that I was, you know, I needed to get out of there, I need to clear path. But the problem is with that part of your brain, you actually can't take in instruction. The next part of the brain that form, it's like at a car accident when people talk about like, oh, they were walking around in shock. We're not actually talking about clinical shock. What we're talking about is that person has witnessed something really traumatic and they are now caught in that caveman part of their brain. So when we show up and say, I need you to move, and they don't move, right? Because they're in that part of their brain. They're not trying to be stupid. They actually can't take in that instruction. The next part of the brain that forms sort of like your emotional brain. So you have the initial shock is that fight or flight. The next thing that follows is usually that emotional response. Some people cry, some people are composed, some people even become physically violent. But again, you can't take in information in that part of your brain. In that emergency situation, what people don't realize is the part of the brain that you need to switch on is this part in here. That's the part of the brain that thinks. So in a cardiac rest, it's the part of the brain that tells you, I put that heel of my hand in the center of the chest. I do 30 compressions to two breaths. It's really hard to do. What people don't understand is that fight or flight and that emotional response where they cannot think is very, very normal, which is why with training, you're creating that muscle memory so that in that situation, just like me on the plane, you just it just happens naturally without even thinking about it. So I think they need to understand that because people need to understand to grant themselves the grace to understand that is a normal reaction and it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

So I think that's probably something that's misunderstood.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

A hundred percent. I know I've just learned something then. Like I've obviously know about flight or flight, but then everything else about it that's really interesting. It's cool, yeah. It's a very different way. Like flight or flight is always mentioned. Yeah. It's also really interesting that yours is to freeze, given that you're a paramedic and you're going in like that. You go head first into danger. It's it's quite interesting that yours is actually to freeze.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Do you know? And I've become really acutely aware of it. Like I always laugh and joke to my partner, like, if we're going into a volatile situation, I'm always like, you'll be fine. Like, I'll be the victim. You'll get out. Don't worry about it, because I'll just freeze. I'll stay there. But the good thing is, because I think people need to be aware of it, because now that I am aware of it, I don't put myself in that situation. So I always make sure that, okay, well, if it's a volatile situation, I'm not going in until police are there because I understand that I might need them to get me because I won't move.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Well, I think we've actually just answered then the next question, which goes into when people freeze in emergencies. So you've that is it. You've also answered that one.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

That is literally it. So that's perfect. I think it's like I just there are very few ways to actually switch on that part of your brain in the front. And so it's having that ability. I remember speaking to um a psychologist once, and she was telling me how the only way if you're in that fight or flight to actually move into the the thinking part of your brain, she was like, What's your favorite colour? What's your favorite colour?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Pink.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Pink? Yep. So if you're in that situation, right, in that room, think of five things in the room that you can see that are pink. And at the same time, you count with your breathing. Because when you do that, when you try and think of the five things that are pink, plus you're counting, you know, how long to breathe in, hold it, breathe out, it actually forces you into the front of your brain. Yeah. You physically requires a lot of thinking. It does, though, doesn't it? Yeah. You're like, oh, what's pink? I try to think about it now. I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Picked a really bad colour for this room. Do you think students today expect something different from training compared to even five or ten years ago? I do.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

I think there's two parts to this. I think students expect something different, but I also expect something different for us training. So I think from the student experience, um, we are now dealing with people who we've all been through COVID, right? So we're now in a digital age. And I remember I was at this business seminar and I was saying how frustrating I was finding it because we would deal with, and I was lecturing at the uni, and it's a cohort that are largely very early 20s, late teens, and they just want the quick answers, right? And I was feeling really frustrated because I remember for me at uni, if I if I wanted an answer to something, right? My lecturer said, go and research X. Okay, well, I might go and read the chapter of a textbook, and as I'm reading that chapter of the textbook, inadvertently I take in extra information that I wasn't looking for, but I I take it in. Or I might go and read a couple of articles, and as I go to search for the answer, I get these extra bits of information and learnings. Now with AI and the digital age, if you asked somebody a question, well, just put it into Chat GPT, Claude, Gemini, and you will get your answer very quickly, which is great, but you're not getting that full learning experience. And I remember saying in his business seminar, I'm just so frustrated, like they just want all of the answers and they just want the certificate, right? They don't want to actually sit there and do the learning. And he was like, you need to not conform, but you actually need to be empathetic and compassionate to that situation. And it's on you to shape that for them. So, which I think was really powerful. So because of that, if you look at things, I was listening to this podcast with this dopamine um, she's a neuropsychologist, and she was talking about dopamine and pleasure and pain. And she was saying that with doom scrolling, for example, right? With reels, and I do it too. I I love a reel, right? I too. Love a reel. And even with doom scrolling, those quick, like less than a minute videos you're watching, you're actually releasing dopamine. So you're getting that pleasure. But the problem is it's addictive. So now you want the next bit of pleasure. And so even our um, I was saying to the guys out there earlier, even now your subscription services like Netflix, Disney, they've gotten onto it. So they now are also looking at, instead of watching you watching a two-hour movie, they're now in production movies that will have 84 small parts because that's our attention span now. And it's not our fault, right? This is just the age we're in, and that's okay. And so, whereas, you know, 10 years ago you might watch a movie, but you've got to work hard to get to the resolution. So you've got to work through the highs, the lows to get to the ending. So, whereas now you want the answer, you want it quickly, you have a short attention span. But that then means that we need to shape our training that way. So you need to be able to find a way that you can get the information out in short, sharp segments, but change it, right? So now we're watching a video, now we're doing something practical, now we have to do the compliance tick-the-box stuff. Now let's go back and have a break. Now let's go and do a video. So if you can change and pivot in short time frames, I think that helps. But I also expect something different as a trainer because I think compassion fatigue, because of how busy everybody's stressed, right? Like, are you busy at the moment? Yes. Do you feel stressed by life? Most of the time. And do you feel like it's just all too hard at the moment? Yeah. Yeah. Everybody feels it, right? Everybody feels it. And that's okay because life is hard at the moment. And it's hard for everybody for different reasons. And this comes back to that you want to feel hurt, right? Because you you're struggling. You just want someone to Sometimes you just want to have a rent, and sometimes you just want to have a wind.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

No one to give you a solution. You just want just let me have it.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah. And so I remember I was in this course and um this guy he yawned and I was like, Oh God, am I keeping you up? And I was making a joke, and he was like, Oh, he said, Yeah, you are actually. And then what he shared was he um his daughter had just had a baby and she was living with him. And he said, Oh, I've been up all night with the baby, like his grandchild. And I was like, Oh God, you're good. Like, I wish I had a dad that was with me through that process and could have been up with my kids. And he was like, Oh, well, my daughter actually just lost her husband a week before she had the baby. And I was like, I'm really sorry. Like, and but and the thing is, and it's still it honestly gives me chills because I had no idea what he was going through. And arguably, that is one of the worst of the worst things to go through, right? That poor woman is going through the hormonal changes, she has a new baby, this person that relies on her, that she now needs to be with, but selfishly, she's just lost her husband, and not selfishly, but she needs to take care of herself as well. And so this guy in the course was there for his daughter and now grandchild. And so I think that as trainers, sometimes I don't know if we feel like we've got this place of power, but we really don't. What we actually have is this unique ability to be a part of someone's life. And I wouldn't have known what was going on if I didn't make that joke, but I'm actually glad I did because I did find out because now that whole day I approached his training very differently because he also did CPR on him. Do you know what I mean? So it it changes everything. And it's that I I think we develop compassion fatigue at the moment because selfishly, I feel like I'm going through a lot. Selfishly, you feel like you're going through a lot. It's all relative. No one's worse than the other, but it's hard to actually step back and be like, hey, how are you going? Like, is everything okay? How was your day? Yeah, so I think that that's something. I've forgotten the question.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

That's okay. You you've answered like how you like balancing, ticking the box while also still creating realistic engaging about because we live in a world now where everything is so short. So you do things in shorter bits, and then you know, you do a video, then you'll do practical. So that's a way trainers can look at balancing boxes. And it's also I think it was really interesting too how you answered that students, yes, expect something different now from the 10 to five to ten years ago, but also now you as a trainer also expect to be different from how you were five to ten years ago training. Definitely. I think that's a really interesting and unique way to look at it.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

I think I also expect to be different as a business owner now as well, because I think unfortunately, as a paramedic, the flexibility to return to work post-maternity leave, it's not great. They do the best they can, but it's not great. And because you you're competing with shift work and that's not conducive to daycare and things like that. And because life is so busy, with the hiring process, I have three women that work with us that are all new mums that are on maternity leave technically, and they have hours for the week. They work from home, and I put a lot of trust in them that over the week they will do those hours. If it's at 11 o'clock on a Wednesday night or if it's at 4 a.m. on a Thursday, that's okay. I actually, before I flew in this morning, I voice noted um one of the girls that work with us, Mel, and said, like, I needed her to do something. And she just sent me a quick text back, going for a run, I'll do it shortly. Okay, cool. Because you know what? I'll get more productivity out of her by supporting what she needs in life as well. Because you don't live to work, wait. You don't work to live. You live to work. Yeah. So you have to have the balance. I haven't found the balance, but I want that for other people.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Well, speaking of LinkedIn posts that you've done, it has been mentioned around the Allen's office about because it's really quite interesting, 24 hours in your day. I don't know how you do it all. I honestly think you have a different 24 hours to everyone else. Like, are you getting extra hours in a day? I think I've got 27. Yeah, I do. Like I've read that, I've looked at everything you've done. I don't know how I genuinely don't. Like, you're still an active paramedic, you're a mum, you're a wife, you're a business, you're a business owner. You'd also be a friend and at so many at a trainer. I don't know how you balance everything.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Do you know I don't either? And I think this is something it's pretty pivotal at the moment, actually, because only in the last week I said to my husband, I was like, I, this is not sustainable, what's happening right now. And because I, you know, I want to be there for my friends, I want to be a mum, and I want to be there for my kids, and I want to be a good wife. And Aaron, my husband, um, just before Christmas was diagnosed with testicular cancer. And he one night he said to me, This might be a little bit of overshadow, but he said to me, Oh, have you noticed my testicle swollen? And I was like, Look, I'm sorry. No. And then I looked and I was like, oh my God, when has that happened? And he was like, literally in the last week. And I was like, Well, you are going to the doctors, and he's like, I'm not classic male. Anyways, and then within honestly 24 hours, we were in Sydney at the urologist booking in surgery, and he had testicular cancer. And it was just like I honestly felt like I was in this wind tunnel. And I was like, What am I doing? Because these little things don't matter. So I think it's definitely, and he's he's well now, but I think it's shaped my perspective very differently. And so now all of my time is accounted for. I won't be honest, I am fiercely OCD, but I think I'm quite strategic now. So I've just started doing this thing. It's my little hour of power. So I get up at 4.30 in the morning because at 4.30 in the morning, I'm a morning person. I'm not a nighttime person. And so I know I'll be productive. I know I won't impede on my children's lives because they're asleep. I won't impede on Aaron's because he's probably asleep too. And I can get work done for an hour uninterrupted. Because the worst thing is if you're my friend and you call me and you want to have a chat, I don't want to be like, yeah, yeah. You know, when you're on the phone to someone and you know they're not listening, you know they are not listening and it just shuts you down, right? You're like, you know what? I give up, I'm not doing it. And so that hour, no one needs anything. If you call me or my friend, you want to have a chat, I actually have capacity to speak to you in that space. So I've started trying to do those things. Definitely not perfect at it, but I do, yeah. And even the accountant the other day, he was like, So when are you gonna give up being a paramedic? And I was like, never. And he was like, You can't do it all.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

No, I I genuinely don't know how you do it all, like how you time manage across everything. Like, is it just time blocking?

SPEAKER_01 36:15

Is it I think so, and I think it's just clearing space for what's important. And I think there's been some really pivotal moments, like that London thing. I have a friend who um she had terminal cancer and she is from England, but she lives in Australia. And I went to see her and she'd been told she had a few weeks to live, and she said to me, I just want to get home to England to die. That's that's my wish. But she was really frightened about obviously going over there. And I was like, Oh, well, I'll take you. And the words came out before like I thought of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, Oh, yeah, I'll I'll I'll come with you. Anyway, so the next day we were on a flight to England and off we went and then turned around that night to come back. But it's you have to be able to make space and time for what matters because do you know what that was really important in that moment, but it was quite hard to move things around. Yeah. Um, and I think, but I was like, oh, it's fine because on the plane, like I'll stay awake and I'm sure Qantas has Wi-Fi on the plane, it'll be fine. Quantas did not have Wi-Fi, but you know what? I actually think it was the universe having my back and telling me to slow down because I watched some really good movies, and normally I don't have the attention span because I'm like, oh, I've got to do this or I've got to do that. It force it was forced rest. Yeah, yeah. So I I do believe this is the woo-woo in me. The universe puts things in front of you for a reason, and that was a reason, that one there. I think there's lessons in everything.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I can't believe you went to London for a day. Yeah, I have no idea. I generally don't know how you do it all. I don't know. 24. I think you've got 27 hours.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

I think so. That's what Brit who works with me, she's like, I think you like Beyonce, like you have extra hours in the dam. I was like, I will take Beyonce.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Are you paying for these extra hours?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Like, I I I would like some extra hours myself. Yeah, just put it through, click and collect.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

So to maintain your balance, do you think there's any habits, systems, or routines that help you maintain the balance while continue to growing your business? I know you've mentioned like the time blocking. Do you think it's mainly time blocking? Do you think there's anything else?

SPEAKER_01 38:12

I think it's time blocking, and I think it's now I've come to understand that maybe the time I have for myself, I need to appreciate the time that I have. So um this week I drove from Bathurst to Singleton, and then I went from Singleton down to Wollongong and then obviously up to Queensland. And that was all within 48 hours. And so I really like listening to podcasts. And so I listened to a podcast, and I actually went away that had no phone service. That was brilliant. That was my time. So I think it's being grateful for the time that I do have rather than seeking out the time that I don't have. And then I've also learned to ask for help as well, which I think is something we get caught on, right? Because we're all like, oh, you've got to do it all. Like it, you you're supposed to be doing this. But I lean on the girls that I work. I could not do what I do without the girls that work with me. Um, Brit, I swear, is like a personal assistant. Yeah. Thank God for Brit.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Yeah, I think sometimes as well, we struggle to ask for help. Oh, yeah. And I think as well, you're a mum. Is that hard to ask for help as well being? Like you're you you've got so many roles. Like as a female, it's sometimes it's hard to ask for help because you're supposed to manage everything.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, I think it is. And I think you know what else I need to learn, and I think it's something that we all need to learn is to say no. It's hard. Yeah, because when we started this, I was like, I'm gonna say yes to every opportunity. Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. And then I missed a call 24 hours later, and I didn't call them back that day because I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not doing it. They've technically called outside of office hours, and this is not work time now. And I called them back 24 hours later, and she was like, Oh, thanks for getting back to me, but I'm sorry, I've gone with another provider. And initially I was like, oh, but then I was like, okay, that's okay. Yeah, that's okay because I said no.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

You're doing at the moment research around mental health well-being. Are there lessons from that research that training organizations or other people, even trainers, should be paying more attention to?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

That's an interesting one. So my research interest is in um, it's more about workforce attrition and retention, primarily in frontline workers and paramedics and understanding occupational factors that influence health and well-being. What we know is that I remember when I joined, and this is just anecdotal, but when I joined Ambulance, we were told that um five years was sort of the career span. So if you made it to five years, you'd be in it for life. But getting to that five-year mark was where we would see some um attrition. Now, though, what we know is the average career span is one to two years. Now, there's a lot of factors that are at play for that, and I think it's something that can be felt across organizations, but things that come into it, um remuneration is something that's been a consistent theme. Um, a lack of support from management supervisors, uh, and another big thing is shift work patterns. So it's finding that work-life balance. I think that that's a big, a big thing that we need to take out of it. And it's understanding your worth. So at the risk of sounding like the ultimate hype girl, like know your worth, right? Because there are people that maybe the training we do in the mines, it is fully face-to-face, it's immersive, it's simulation-based. We've got a heap of equipment that goes into it. Um, we actually go underground, we do simulations with them. It's my absolute passion. Comes with a cost. Now we have had people balk at the cost before, and it's a hard one because you do have to balance being competitive. And at the moment, I did run a thing through at this workshop I was doing, we were looking at what is going to be the biggest competition for us as a business over the coming years. And the biggest thing that it came out was the competitive landscape. So it was providers that are offering really low cost options because times are tough at the moment and it's just a compliance, they just need to tick the box. So, and at first I would always be like, Oh, we'll do it cheaper, we'll do it cheaper. And now it's like, well, there's a balance, and I'm not overcharging, but I also value what we do and I understand what that value is. So I think that's something that people need to hold on to as well.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Do you think first aid confidence becomes even more important in regional and rural communities where help may be further away?

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Definitely because some of these rural and remote communities, they can be a significant distance to getting one frontline help. Understanding things like Life 360, Good Sam is the other one, and uh Emergency Plus. Good Sam Responder, we're seeing some big things out west. We're really trying to promote it, but we're very careful about it because Good Samaritan, uh, one, obviously, we've had good outcomes because people can start CPR. We're finding a lot of rural communities. We did a job out at uh, I think it was in Rockley, and they actually had it, they've the community has purchased a DFib that they have there, and so they had brought that to the scene. And so Good Sam is great, but word of caution, it does open you up to more experiences of cardiac arrest than you otherwise would be. So you have to be comfortable with that. If you're not comfortable with it, that's okay, don't register on it. But I think it is more important in rural areas, but then we see these really nice.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

It's really important for communities to kind of do stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

You're very active on social media and you've got a presence there, especially on LinkedIn. I've seen a lot of your LinkedIn posts, some have done quite well as well. How isn't how important is it networking and social media been for you?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

Oh, this is a big one. So there's community versus corporate because they're very, very different. What I will say with social media, and it's something that I feel very passionately about, AI is brilliant, right? I use it. I use it and I think it's an amazing tool, but it needs to be used the right way. So I don't use it for content ideas, I use it to spell check. What I'm saying or rephrase something that I've said. I think that we are seeing a lack of organic content on social media. And I find, and it might just be my personal take on it, but if I'm scrolling Facebook, because I'm Doom scrolling and I'm seeking the dopamine, I see a post and I can pick if it was written by social media, very social media written by AI very quickly and I disengage. I don't even keep reading, I don't look at the photos, I'm not interested. Whereas when I see something that's authentic and organic and maybe has a stance or an opinion, I engage in that. So I've been very careful about making sure that I don't want to be, I'm not sitting here saying, you know, posting needs to be fiercely opinionated because we also don't want that. You you have to be flexible in your opinions, right? You can feel strongly about something, but you have to be flexible because maybe it's not correct. Um, like doing CPI with your foot, not correct. That's been something. That was a controversial one. Um, but I think that be authentic and you have to have your own unique content. And it's finding a balance between this is a course that we did, but then this is also me as a person, because both are true and both coexist, and they're maybe they're like split personalities. I don't know, but that both are there. So I think that's something I think from a community perspective, I think that it's important. Um, I think that we shouldn't be overposting. I don't think you need to post every single day. Uh, I think we our sort of niche is around three times a week, maybe we post. But then if things are busy, maybe it's a bit longer. Um, but then for the corporate world, are mining bosses looking? Probably not, but I think it's still important. And we have some really cool client connections on LinkedIn, and so it's really important. And I actually use that as a as a place to be able to shout out because for mines, for example, or heavy industry, there are training teams that work relentlessly and tirelessly to put training together, and it is a very thankless task. So I do try and use it as a moment to shine a light on what they're doing to support their workforce and to thank them as well. Because quite often they're on LinkedIn, not so much like Instagram, Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, LinkedIn is very much for the professionals in the corporate world where Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, what whatever else is more that community, public course space. Yeah. And you are right about having a human element still on social media because we are, as a society now, slightly more advanced in AI and technology. People are looking at whether it is AI or if it's human, and people are engaging more in human content.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

It's like I actually find if someone makes a spelling error, I find it refreshing on social media. Don't hit me with heaps of grammatical errors, but like if I see the odd spelling mistake, I'm like, you know what? That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 46:56

You are right. It's having that human element to be slightly different, and that's what people are looking for and wanting to engage. Because like we mentioned earlier, yeah, humans still crave the human connection. So seeing it is refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

And same with photos. Like, I'm not very good at taking photos. Like some of these photos I see on Instagram and Facebook, I'm like, oh God, that is such a good angle. Like, you look so good. I'm not saying they don't look good in real life, but I'm like, how did you do it? Because I swear I take photos of myself and sometimes I look at them and I'm like, is that how I look? Because I swear that's not how I look. And so I think that sometimes just taking the candid photos, just run with it. You are who you are. Do you know what I mean? I think I've become very unapologetic in that sense. One of my very close friends, she was very concerned about what people will think or what people will say. And you have to be careful of that stuff, of course, but you can be you and you don't have to apologize for that. And if your photo has the 12 chins because we haven't been to the gym in a while, it has your 12 chins, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

You know, yeah, it's okay. Do you think your strategy on social media then is having that human element and that's what's been working for you the best? Have you tried different strategies or have you just found that's worked and you've kind of stuck with that?

SPEAKER_01 48:09

I think so. I think I've found that that's worked. I mean, we've tried and failed with a lot of things, it's been a lot of backwards and forwards. It's like I was saying to you at my email address, like, Lord knows I wish that I had of fixed that earlier, you know? Like, hi, what's your email? It's Chloe at Central West. I'm still going, sorry, first day, still going training.com.au. Like there are things that we've done maybe not the right way. But I think it is a big thing. Stock photos, I hate stock photos. I know that's really opinionated, but I just I disengage from it because it's not real. It's not real.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

I want to see what you're doing. What advice would you give someone trying to grow their presence professionally online, either social media or website?

SPEAKER_01 48:49

I'm very strategic in, or not strategic, but I'm very picky about where I choose to invest my time and my energy and money. And what I've come to realize in business is sometimes you have to spend money to make money. And obviously you have to do it with care, right? Because you can't send yourself broker into debt. I'm not saying that at all. But you know, if you get money from a course and you it's a side hustle and you're still working your job, well, maybe you use that to invest in something. So I I have done that with growing my presence online, not like bots to follow me, but in terms of like getting coaches and guides to understand and to find my personal brand. And that owes into you have to find your personal brand because more people follow Elon Musk than follow Tesla. You follow the person, not the business. So it's understanding that I think that would be the biggest thing is find your personal brand. Find your niche. Exactly. Yep. Exactly. Now, what's one thing you wish everyone felt more confident doing in an emergency situation? It's having compassion for themselves about how they respond and understanding it's okay if they don't know what they're doing, and it's okay if they do know what they're doing, and what they're doing is probably enough.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

I think that would be it. Because I think even if you don't know how to do some fancy sling, if you can make that person comfortable, that's important. I think with first aid, I feel very strongly about it is you want to package a person, make them comfortable, make them safe to get them to where they need to go. We don't need to be open heart surgeons. You just need to make them safe and comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

So even if you're the person providing comfort, you've done an amazing job. Do you know with our management when we do our case sheets, we put in things like, you know, morphine or IV access or airways, whatever it is, there is actually a button for management, reassurance provided. Because it's actually a pain relief method. That is the first step of pain relief is reassurance.

SPEAKER_00 50:40

I think it's a really beautiful way to look at it too. Like if you can just provide someone comfort in that situation, that's maybe that's all they need. Now, if students only remember one thing from a first aid course, what would you want it to be? My email.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Like, flick me an email. If you have a situation, we had someone call us after they did a course, they went, they were on the golf course, someone went to cardiacarists, they did CPR and they called us. And I they wanted to tell us about it, but I think they wanted to debrief and they wanted someone to hear them. To reach out. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

It's okay. Just because you've finished your training and you're but not doing training, they can still come back and reach out and that you want to still help you. Definitely. For the final question, we may have already kind of answered this throughout the whole conversation, but what does good first aid training look like to you?

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Training where your students are engaged, even the ones that don't want to be there where they're engaged in it, and they walk away actually feeling empowered and feeling good about the training. Because I think some people are like, oh gosh, world the world's expensive, right? And oh, I've got to pay for my first aid course. And they are expensive. So if they can walk away being like, Do you know what? That was actually a really good use of my time. And I actually enjoyed that. That's enough.

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Chloe, thank you for coming on the podcast. It has been an amazing conversation and definitely eye-opening from my point of view of even the way you look at things and how you think about things differently. It's really interesting and beneficial. Slightly unhinged, maybe. I think sometimes we need that. It was really refreshing. So thank you so much for coming on the Voices in Vet podcast. Thank you. As we've heard throughout today's conversation, great training is far more than just delivering course content. It's about creating learning experiences that builds confidence, encourage action, and leave students feeling prepared to respond when it matters most. Thank you to Chloe for sharing her experience insights from transitioning to frontline knowledge into meaningful learning experiences to growing a successful training business and building strong relationships within the vet sector. If you'd like to learn more about Central West first aid training specialists, we'll leave a link in the show notes below. Thank you for listening to Voices in VET. We'll see you next time.