Christ's Object Lessons - Chapter 16: Lost, and Is Found

Pastor David Asscherick is joined by Deb Snyder to discuss Chapter 16 of Ellen White's Christ's Object Lessons, which examines the parable of the prodigal son. David and Deb explore Ellen White's profound insights into this beloved parable, emphasizing how the father's love—representing God's love—meets both sons exactly where they are. The chapter reveals that true freedom is found not in separation from God, but in returning home to His embrace. Through personal testimony and poetic reflection, Deb shares her own journey as a modern-day prodigal, illustrating how God's grace is offered forgiven, forgotten, and forever to all who turn toward Him.

Guest: Deb Snyder
Scripture References: Luke 15:11-32
Covers: Chapter 16: Lost, and Is Found
Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZOivM_8J6o
Light Bearers

Transcript

Greeting and Announcements

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody and welcome to I almost said OT. I almost I do that almost all the time, Deb. Welcome to with DA and DS. Yes. Deb Snyder. For those of you that were wondering who our mystery guest was, we pulled a little bit of a fast one on you yesterday because Tanya knew all along who it was, and Deb was sitting in the other room.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

She did.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

She knew and I knew, and I guessed, I guess we were kind of being deceptive. We were a little bit. Or what was your word you used today? Not lying, not deceiving, but Oh, misdirecting. That's what we were doing. That's my new term when I when my kids say misdirect. Yeah, that wasn't totally honest. Somebody say, No, it was just misdirecting. Yes. I love that. So yesterday we were not being deceitful or lying. We were just misdirecting. We were. So Deb was in the other room, and she and Tanya drove down. They'd both live in Nebraska. Yep. And originally the idea, well, maybe was not the idea, but we had wondered if we could do all three, but it's really impossible. We've done it in the past with DA. Yeah. But it's so hard when we did DA with DA. It's so you can see how tight we are right now. Yeah, this room is a lot smaller, guys, than it looks on Instagram. And just imagine, where would you put the third head on Instagram? I know. Yep. It's very hard to do. So we're sitting right next to one another. Yeah. Okay, so let's greet some people. Deb, you're normally on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, I'll get a bunch of people in the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

So look, Matt says, Hi, Deb. Uh, hello, Matt. Hello, Audie. Great to see you in church today. Hello, Brent. I saw Ruben on there too. Hi, Ruben. Oh, yeah. And Gerald says, we're early tonight. Yep, we're two hours early. We announced that last night. Uh, kids are for Christ says, so cool. Uh, greetings from Florida says Deborah. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Tamara, Grace, Faith, Hope, and Love.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, that's Tamara. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

And then my blessed Chuck.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah, so good. So you're basically you're a local. You can get a green. I like. Hello, everybody. You're the local. I'm gonna go get my tea. I'll be back in a few minutes.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Hi, Patty Connell. Grace, peace, and blessings. Hello, hi Lord Hugh. Zach Northrop. Hi, Deb. Hi says hi Deb. Kelly Michelle. Hello. Hi, everybody. Hi, Maria King. Yes, Ruben. I did have some famous pizza and it was awesome. It was delicious. Hi, Cindy. I see you. Hello, everybody.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Death had a pizza.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Hi from Texas. Good. And somebody asked me if I had your delicious pizza, and I said, yes, I did.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yes, it was delicious. It was funny. I went in the other room, and Violetta is in there preparing me a tea, and Tanya was watching you, uh, but it's on a little delay. Yeah, it is. It's weird. So I think that was the first time in my life I've ever watched with VA live and have not been present. I was in the other room and I got to see it's great. Maybe I should go in the other room and you should just do the whole session. Could you do that? That's too much pressure for me. Wouldn't that be amazing? What if I just went in the other room and you know, I just I could be commenting on the other side. Great point. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

I don't know if they want that.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Okay, maybe that's too much. Um, so you've seen some people on here that you know?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Yep. A bunch of people. A bunch of people. I met a few people at um Arise Houston. Oh, great. I got to meet Ruben. I got to meet Kattersty. Yeah. She's on here sometimes. And I think Sierra Hiker, I think I can meet him too.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

It's so cool when you it's funny, people will come up to me and they'll be like, I'm Katersky. And for a moment it takes me just a second to register. Yeah. Or I'm Grace Faith Hope Love3.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

And I'm like, oh, of course, with DA. Yeah, Ruben says I'm talking to a DA vet.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah, listen, because you've been with us like Tanya from the time. From the very beginning, yep. DA with DA. Yep. OT with DA. All the way through. Okay, now let's talk a little bit about yourself, Deb. Some people on here know you, but some people on YouTube. Welcome, everybody. We are doing with DA. This is a month-long study through the parables of Jesus. And, Deb, I've got news for you. You just happened to land on my favorite parable.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I love this parable.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

I think it's probably everybody's favorite.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, because it's so relatable.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

What parable is better? I mean, all of them are great, to be clear, but isn't everybody's favorite parable kind of the prodigal son? I think so. Yeah. If it's not, don't tell us because that's our working theory right now. Okay, so Deb, you came from Nebraska. Yep. But that is not your home.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

No. We're born and raised in Massachusetts.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Okay, so you're from New England. Yep. Uh, the other N-E. So there's New England N-E, and Nebraska N-E. And if I'm not mistaken, uh, that might have been how you uh met or connected with your now husband. Yes. Tell that story.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

We met on an Adventist dating site. And at the time, I love this story. Some um his ex-girlfriend actually, funny or not, okay, introduced, kind of told him that there was a girl on this chat room that he needed to talk to and said he's from NE. And I'm like, oh, New England, great from New England. From New England, close. Yeah, exactly. No problem. Okay. And then when we started talking and everything, I realized he's from Nebraska.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I had no idea where Nebraska was. Thank you so much. Hey babe, say hi to everybody. Just say hi. Just oh come and say hi. Okay, I tried to say hi. She won't do it. Okay, so then how long was it before you figured out that N E was Nebraska and not New England? Was it the first time you were talking about?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I think after we talked a little bit, then I was like, oh, he's did you like any was Nebraska too?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Did you say something like, where are you located in New England?

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, something like that or like where are you from or whatever? And then I think he said, like, no, whatever in Nebraska, and I'm like, oh. I'm like, way off base here, not even close. Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And you didn't lose interest at the time?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

No, I was kind of like, well, all right, that's gonna be a little wrinkle to figure out, but so then you moved from New England to Nebraska. I moved here to Nebraska, yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

And what now you've lived in Nebraska for what, 14 years?

SPEAKER_01 6:18

Or almost 14 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

And uh what what's your opinion of Nebraska, especially having moved from the northeast? Because that's a totally different world. It's completely different. Um and how's Nebraska? Flat and no trees. Okay, so not enough and a lot of corn.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Flat corn. Yeah. But do you like it? I do like it. It's growing on me. It took a while to get used to. It's quiet, it's quieter. People are more friendly. Now you don't really have a New England accent. I don't. My my husband was actually a little bummed when he talked to me. He's like, you don't have an accent. Can you put it on?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Uh, kinda. A little bit. Okay. How many times tonight are you gonna say wicked? Wicked.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

It was wicked good, man. Because isn't that like a Boston thing? It's a Boston thing. It's like it's a New England thing, and they do it in like New Hampshire and stuff too.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

New Hampshire. Even there you sound like New Hampshire. New Hampshire.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

It can be either something really good or something really bad.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Wicked can be.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah. So you can be that pizza was wicked good, or you can say, Man, I wicked stunk at that.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Oh, so it can go either way.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

It can go either way.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Yeah. It's just kind of like saying very.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Like very, very. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

And you have children or no children?

SPEAKER_01 7:27

We have three kids.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Three kids, ages what to what?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

My our oldest Jacob is 23, and we have twins, Samantha and Stephen, that are 21.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

So you have twins? Yeah. Your kids are almost exactly the same as my kids, because mine are 20. Let me think about this. 22 and 24. 23 and 24. And yours are 21 and 23. Yeah. Uh soon to be 22 and 24. Okay. So you have two boys. Two boys and a girl. Two boys and a girl. And your youngest is the girl?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Um, well because it was twins. Yeah, they're she'll say she's older than her brother because she's like a minute older.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Oh, okay. But they're basically the same.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah, they're the same.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Okay. And uh any grandkids yet? No. Are any of your kids married?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Uh two of my kids are getting married this year, so.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Two weddings this year.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Well, my daughter's getting married in September, and my son is getting married in December.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

So we've got all right, weddings coming up.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Yep. All right, it'll be fun. My two of my friends, their daughters are both getting married this year, too. So it's like all three of us are having a lot of weddings. It is a lot of weddings.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

There's a phase in your life where you go and then a lot of your like people that you know are getting married. I'm kind of out of that phase now. I end up at a lot of weddings just because people ask me to do their weddings. But there is a period there where it's like lots of weddings, and then it kind of stops. Yeah. So when you get invited back to a wedding, like your kids' wedding, that's awesome. Because weddings are great. Yeah, they're fun. I love weddings. Yeah, we are super duper glad that you were here. We've been talking about you coming on with DA for like two seconds since the beginning almost. Well, I made another year since OT with DA.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah, since OT with the day.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

And finally, you and Tanya got in a car, road tripped over. We drove over. Drove over six hours or almost six hours.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, it's close to six, like five, five and a half hours.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

And last night you listened to Tanya. Yep. And tonight Tanya's listening to you. Yep. Well, welcome everybody. We are super glad that you are here. By the way, we have another guest tomorrow, and Deb can confirm. This is no misdirection. This guest is not in the house. No. Not here. Do you even know who it is? Don't say if you do. Have I said it? I think I have an idea. Okay, all right. All I'm gonna say is this guest is a guest we've had before, and this guest specifically requested chapter 17.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Which is tomorrow's chapter. But the chapter that I am, I mean, I love all of it. It's all been A plus. But for me, chapter 16, The Prodigal Son, A.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Amazing. Yep. Now, in addition to being uh with DA, uh follower and a mother and a wife, and from New England, Deb is a poet. Yes. A poet. And she has brought not one, not two, but three poems to share tonight. And Deb, you're gonna start us off with a poem. Is that right? Are you ready? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

Hi Kaderski, I just saw her.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

There we are. She's guessing some pe somebody's guessing, Nathan. Our lips are are sealed. But I will say it's not Nathan. Okay. Lips are sealed. We're not gonna tell you, but this is a guess that has been on before. Okay, so Deb, you've got a poem for us. What's the first poem you're going to share with us? Okay. How long have you been writing poetry?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

No, a few years. Okay. Five or six years. Yeah. It's it's nice. It's I like writing. I've always liked writing. It's kind of a creative release.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, good for you. And people seem to like them when I share them. I can't wait to hear them. And this poem looks like it's called His Hands. Yes. And how long ago did you write this poem?

SPEAKER_01 10:51

Um, probably six years, five or six years ago.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Oh, so you wrote it a while ago.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Okay. So Deb's going to share a poem with us now, then we'll have prayer and do our study. And then you've got a couple poems for the end. Yes. Kind of like Jennifer. The point, the person, the prayer, the practice, the promise, and the poems. And the poems.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

You're going to have to start requiring people to write a poem when they want to hear their poems.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

People might demon might be like, uh, I can't make it. I'm not doing a poem. Anyway, Twine have done a poem. I don't think so. I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

She's very talented at many things, but poetry is probably not one of them.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Okay, I am so excited to hear a poem by Deb Snyder, who we are super glad is here, called His Hands. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

When you took your first breath, my hands were there embracing. They felt your tiny form and held you close, a life with no replacing. The day you took your first fall, my hands wiped your eyes dry. I can't bear it, my dear child, to see you hurt and cry. When you were sick and weary, unable to get out of bed, my hands were holding you close, wiping the sweat of fever off your head. The day you came to me and committed your life with a ceremony of rebirth, my hands were raised up rejoicing, leading heaven's choir in unseen mirth. On the day life got you down, you walked away from me, saying the world was enough. My hands held my face as I wept because the thought of losing you was so tough. Every day you went through life trying to do things on your own. But I was always there in the background, waiting for the seeds that were planted to be regrown. Then on that day you have finally broken and came to me completely worn down. My hands held you tightly so you know that no matter what, I could always be found. They picked you up and held you around your shoulders as you confessed your heart to me, and your face started getting bolder. They waved goodbye as you went out to do my bidding, and were open and welcome embrace every day when you sought me daily committing. Now we have finally had the chance to meet face to face. You can eternally feel the touch of my hands, it can never be replaced. And when you finally feel my hands and ask about the scars, my child, that's when I'll tell you they are my finest works of art. With for without these nail marks in my hands, there would never have been you. This has been my purpose and plan right from the start. There was nothing that would stop this from coming true. You then put your hand in mine, and now the book is complete. My hands are the story of love, a story that would never know defeat.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

So this is like from God's perspective.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, like looking at us and like his hands.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

No, it's I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. Very creative. Okay, excellent. Well, we have two more of those to look forward to. And they really tie in, at least one of them in particular, really ties in with the prodigal sunstore.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yes, I wrote it just for this, actually. You wrote it for this? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

So you pulled like a Jennifer Schwarzer. Right. Well, you're stepping up, Deb. Okay, all right. We are so glad that you are here, Deb. That's an absolutely beautiful poem. And I'm gonna ask you to have our opening prayer.

Prayer

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Father in heaven, we thank you for this time to come together and study more about you and how much you love us and just how much you keep seeking after us when we go astray, and how much you love us. Lord, we ask that you guide this conversation with your Holy Spirit and just help this conversation to help any of those out there that might be struggling to really know and understand how much you love them. Amen. In Jesus' name

Discussion

SPEAKER_01 14:17

we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Amen. Beautiful. Thank you, Dev. So glad you're here. I'm happy. Now, I asked Tanya last night uh what was her nervousness scale on a scale of one to ten. What hers was? No, what your now I'm asking you. She's about two.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah, I was a little nervous before I started.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Right. You get a little nervous, but then you sit down. It's just my office. It's small, right? It's fine. We're just talking in front of, you know, several hundred of our favorite friends. And then by tomorrow, yeah. Within a few days, it'll be several thousand of our favorite people. Yeah. Nothing to be worried about. Nothing. Okay, so this chapter is amazing. It's called Lost and Is Found. It's about the third of the uh parables in Luke 15, all of them about lost things. So yesterday we did lost sheep, lost coin, and today lost son. And if you don't mind, I'm gonna have you read unless you want me to read. Are you happy to read?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I can read.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Okay, so I'm gonna have you read uh from the NIV the parable of the lost son, and then I'm gonna have the same from NT Wright's translation. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Jesus continued, There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, Father, give me my share of the estate. So he divided his property between them. Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country, and there squandered his wealth in while living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. When he came to his senses, he said, How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and I am here starving to death? I will set out and go back to my father and say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants. So he got up and went to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him. He ran to the son, threw his arms around him, and kissed him. The son said to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son. But the father said to his servants, Quick, bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fatted calf and kill it. Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found. So they began to celebrate. Meanwhile the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. Your brother has come, he replied, and your father has killed the fatted calf because he is because he has him back safe and sound. The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, Look, all these years I have been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. You never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when his but when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fat and calf for him. My son, the father said, You were always with me, and everything I have is yours. But when we have well, but we had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again. He was lost and is found.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

No matter how many times you read it, it's great every time. Yeah. And it just gets better and better, and that line, this son of yours, stings. It does. It stings every time. This son of yours. Okay, let me read it now from Rice Translation. It says, uh Jesus went on and said, Once there was a man who had two sons, the younger son said to the father, Father, give me my share in the property. So we divided up his livelihood between them. Not many days later, the younger son turned his share into cash and set off for a country far away, where he spent his share in having a riotous good time. When he had spent it all, a severe famine came on that country, and he found himself destitute. So he went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into the fields to feed his pigs. He longed to satisfy his hunger with the pods that the pigs were eating, and nobody gave him anything. He came to his senses. Just think, he said to himself, there are all my father's hired hands with plenty to eat, and here I am, starving to death. I shall get up and go to my father, and I'll say to him, Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I don't deserve to be called your son any longer. Make me like one of your hired hands. And he got up and went to his father. While he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and his heart was stirred with love and pity. He ran to him, hugged him tight, and kissed him. Father, the son began to say, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I don't deserve to be called your son any longer. But the father said to his servants, Hurry, bring the best clothes and put them on him. Put a ring on his hand and shoes on his feet, and bring the calf that was fattened up. Kill it, and let's eat and have a party. This son of mine was dead and is alive again. He was lost, and now he's found. And they began to celebrate. The older son was out in the fields. When he came home and got near to the house, he heard music and dancing. He called one of the servants and asked what was going on. Your brother's come home, he said, and your father has thrown a great party. He's killed the fattened calf. Because he's got him back safe and well. He flew into a rage and wouldn't go in. Then his father came out and pleaded with him. Look here, he said to the father, I've been slating for you all these years. I've never disobeyed a single commandment of yours, and you never even gave me a young goat, so I could have a party with my friends. But when this son of yours comes home, once he's finished gobbling up your livelihood with his whores, you kill the fattened calf for him. My son, he replied, You're always with me. Everything I have belongs to you. But we have to celebrate and be happy. This brother of yours was dead and is alive again. He was lost, and now he's found.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Amen.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

I mean, this is another one of those parables, Deb, where we can just say, All right, let's pray. We can have closing. Yeah, prayer. Yeah. But we're not going to do that because we are here to talk about this parable. And this is a parable that over the years I've had the privilege of preaching on many, many times. And as I said there a moment ago, it never gets old. No. It's always fresh, it's always good, and there's always some new. In fact, in this study, I learned several things, or at least I saw several things that were fresh to me, new to me, things I hadn't seen before. Me too. And it felt like I had the same experience when I was reading through the chapter.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

I'm like, oh, I like that. Oh, I really like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

You had the same experience? Yeah, because I mean we've all read this story a bunch of times. Exactly. When I was really studying it for this, like there's I just saw a lot of things that I had never really picked up on before in it.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Okay. And it was Is there one in particular that that you want to just share preliminarily that you're like, this jumped out to me?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Well, um, the whole attitude of the um the older son, it just kind of really struck me that that's Kane.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Yeah, yeah, she actually makes that comparison.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

He's like, he's like got Kane's spirit, and I like it never really picked up on that before. Like because it's like this son of yours, it's like when Kane's like, Am I my brother's key?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Am I my brother's key? Yeah, yeah, that's I don't care about that. That's a great point. That's very much the Kane spirit.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, and I never really I guess I just never really connected it before.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

And something on that that's really cool is that the father is the only one capable of restoring the brothers. Yeah. And one of the things I picked up on this story that I had noticed before, but I it really jumped out to me. Me this time around is that in many ways, okay, there's three major characters in this story.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Right? So you have the younger son, the father, and the older son, kind of in order of speaking and appearance. And two of the three characters are unfinished. We don't we don't know what happened. Yeah. Right? We don't know how the younger son handled his newfound status and responsibilities and what happened after the homecoming. We don't know. Jesus never tells us. We can hope for the best, but we don't have the answer to that. And we also don't know, and Ellen White actually makes this point in this chapter, how the older son responded to the father's overtures. But the only thing we do know is the father's character is complete. Right? There's no further development of the father's character. His love is perfect, his fatherly love is perfect, and he's the only one, he's the link. If there's going to be healing between the brothers, and if the brothers are going to live into the opportunities that are set before them, it's going to be through the father's love. So the father is complete in the story, and the two sons are incomplete in the story, right? We don't know what happened. And what I love about that is that this parable, as we know, was told specifically to the Pharisees who were upset that Jesus was fraternizing with the publicans, the sinners, and all of the social outcasts that we talked about last night with time. So it's almost like Jesus is placing, and Ellen White actually makes this point, placing this parable in their lap and saying, How will you respond? You're the older brother. These are the younger brothers. We'll see if they not just come to me out of curiosity or interest, but do they live into this opportunity to really be my follow uh my followers, my disciples, and we'll see if you, the older brother, will live into this opportunity. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I actually I'd written this down about the observation because I said the father's posture to both sons was the same. What was the difference was their recognition of themselves and their need of their father's love. You got it. And their own state.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yeah, exactly. That's a great point. One was a son, the other was a servant. And and both of them thought they were gonna act like servant. I mean, the older son's acting like a servant, we'll get to this, but the younger son thought he was gonna come back like a servant. So they both have this kind of servant mentality, and the father is the link that is the only hope for the sons individually and relationally. Yeah. And and really that's the lesson here. The father is God in heaven is the only hope for this world. Both vertically and horizontally. Yes, exactly. Okay, all right. So let's get into the chapter itself, titled Lost and Is Found. Big chapter, a lot going on here. By the way, full disclosure here, I was a little nervous because I was like, I wonder how, I mean, I've read this chapter before, I've read this book before, but I was like, I I didn't remember how Ellen White handled this parable, and I love this parable so much that to be honest, I was a I was a little nervous. I was like, I hope I'm not disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

No, I think.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

But I was the opposite. Yeah. She handles this, I think she handled it perfectly. Yes. Especially the ending. Yeah. Which we'll get to. Which we'll get to. Um, okay, so let's start, if you don't mind, uh, reading the first paragraph. This is page 236 of the uh types and symbols, 198 of the original.

unknown 25:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

The parables of the lost sheep, the lost coin, and the prodigal son bring out in distinct lines God's pity and love for those who are straying from him. Although they have turned away from God, he does not leave them in their misery. Amen. He is full of kindness and tenor pity toward all who are exposed to the temptations of the artful foe. Okay, and keep reading the field line. And the parable of the prodigal son is presented the Lord's dealing with those who have once known the Father's love, but who have allowed the tempter to lead them a captive at his will.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Okay, then she starts with quote. So something that I really like there is that twice in those two paragraphs there, she talks about the tempter. Yeah. Right? And he's kind of the silent adversary, the foe that's operating behind the scenes, behind the curtain, because something is drawing, especially the young son, away from his father, away from his land, away from his home. You can feel the pull, and that pull, the riotous living, the opportunity for a new identity, is you know, she uses this word here, the temptations of the artful foe, and that the tempter was going to lead him captive. By the way, that word, the whole notion of sort of captivity, slavery, bondage, freedom is all throughout this chapter. Yeah, it is. I'm sure you picked up that. Yep, I did see that. I mean, it's unmistakable. And one thing right at the outset here in these two paragraphs, we get is that God is not the enemy. The father is not the enemy. The tempter, the unseen, unmentioned tempter is the enemy. Yes. God is the reconciler. Again, God is the only one that can put this story back together. Uh-huh. That can put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

Not just the broken boy, but the broken family. Um, you got anything in those two paragraphs that you really liked? Not particularly. Okay, so you're happy with that? Yeah. Okay, so then we've already read the parable, so we'll jump down to this younger son. This this is on page 237, top of the page 199 of the original. This younger son had become weary of the restraint of his father's house. He thought that his liberty was restricted. His father's love and care for him were misinterpreted, and he determined to follow the dictates of his own inclination. I'll read one more paragraph. The youth acknowledges no obligation to his father and expresses no gratitude. He claims the privilege of a child in sharing his father's goods, the inheritance that would fall to him at his father's death, he desires to receive now. He is bent on present enjoyment and cares not for the future. Okay, I got several things here. I have a couple things. Okay, go ahead. What do you got?

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Well, what stuck out to me in this um paragraph about the younger son, where she talks about he became weary of the restraint of his father's house. So that's so that made me think of discontentment. Oh and what happens when we're discontent? We are not happy with our circumstances, we're unhappy with our life.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

We start thinking that things are better somewhere else, or I'm not getting what I need here. Yep. And when we live in that kind of posture, we we sometimes get ourselves into trouble because we go after things that really maybe aren't the best for us or what we should have.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

You nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

And then I was reminding you, like, what does Paul tell us in Philippians 4, 11 to 13? Was like, well, he talks about being content in whatever circumstance he's been in. Correct. And like he was not being content in the circumstance that he had. No, he wants the he wants out. Yeah, he thought things would be better if he was out in his father's.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

What do we say? The grass is green. Yeah, exactly. Right. And and there's several indications in the parable. This is really important. Like, this is really strong, and it's it's really strong, especially in the first century context. So just a few things here. If you look at verse 12, the younger son said to the father, Give me my share in the property. Now, the Greek word there is like property, like my inheritance. Yes. But then this is quite interesting. So he divided up his livelihood between them. Now, that word there, listen to this word, is bios, from which we get words like biology. The word literally means life. So that's why most of these translate this livelihood. So this is you have to get the idea here in your mind that the father has worked hard. He's poured his life into the soil, he's poured his life into his resources, into his property, and into his sons. Yes. And the son basically says, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

I don't want to be here.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Give me what is mine, give me a half of your life. Actually, now, sort of as I understand it, the oldest son is going to get probably about two-thirds, and he's going to get one third. But he still wants the life of the father. In other words, here's what he's basically saying. He's effectively saying something like this. It's equivalent to this. And this is how Jesus, first century, this is audacious in Jesus, in the audience that Jesus is telling this to. This is absolutely audacious. In fact, one of the things that's kind of audacious is that the first person to speak in the parable is the younger son. Right. And and this is already, people would have been like, wait a minute, wait a minute. You would expect seniority. The father's gonna, if you would have known there's three major figures in this parable, the father, the older son, the younger son. Yeah, you would have expected them to speak or to be introduced in terms of importance and significance as father, older son, younger son. So for the younger son to be the first one that speaks and then asks obstinately, selfishly, for half of his father, his portion of his father's bios life, everybody in the audience is going, I mean, they just immediately see what's going on here. And the son is effectively saying, Dad, you're dead to me.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I have that exact same thing. Okay, read it to what do you got? I just put like inheritance is something you usually get when somebody's dying. Right. Asking for the inheritance was like saying he wanted his father dead. That's what he's saying. His father's livelihood was his life. Correct. All that he had and all that he worked for. The father was, in a sense, giving his life for him.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Exactly. Like he like Christ gave his life for him. No, he nailed it. I mean, the the the the son is saying, I don't like this place, I don't like this land, I don't like these people, I don't like your God. Yeah, I don't I want out, I'm done, I'm gonna completely reinvent myself. You're dead to me. Yeah, and I'm gonna go, and the language here of he goes into a far country was kind of an idiomatic expression for like on the other side of the sea. I mean, as far away as you could go, and the son is gonna completely kind of reinvent himself. Yeah. And now the father here could have taken a number of postures, right? The father could have been like, he could have been like, okay, son, like let me talk you off the ledge here a little bit. I think this is all a bit excessive. He could have kind of taken the like negotiation.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

He could have taken the, who the heck do you think you are? You don't talk to me this way, like the top-down. But I think if we're kind of reading between the lines here, the father knows that the son's heart is already gone. And so he thinks the only way I'll ever get my son back is to let him go. Like, like no other strategy is gonna work here. You've he's he's got to be free to go do what he thinks he wants. What he thinks he wants. Then he's gonna find out what he thought he wanted was not what he actually wanted. But I love that the father who gives him a long leash. Yeah, he he he he he acquiesces. He acquiesces, he says, okay, here's your portion, and he's like, peace out, I'm out of here. And he's off to a far country to reinvent himself effectively.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

As a parent, that's probably one of the hardest things to do is see your kid making a bad choice, yeah, going down a wrong path, and you can't do much about it because they're adults. You got it, and you gotta just let them figure it out on their own, correct? Make that mistake and learn from the mistake.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

You got it. And and you know, you learn this the way you parent a 10-year-old is not the way you parent a 20-year-old or a 25-year-old. It's exactly if you're if your son who's of age comes and says, Hey, I want this, I want this, I want this, and you love them, your hands are tied a little bit. I mean, what are you gonna do? You could go, you could go, you know, hard and heavy and say, No way, that's not happening, but that would be dishonorable to the father. The son would have kind of a legal complaint against his dad. And so the dad sees rather than trying to take the hard role or the negotiating role, he just gives his son over to the decisions that he that his son thinks he wants to make. And I think the father wisely knows this is the only way to potentially get his son back.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yes, very wise. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Okay, so this is strong, and we need to hear it as strong as it would have sounded to the audience to whom Jesus says it.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

In a shame honor culture, this is totally upside down. It's totally unacceptable. And again, the younger son is effectively saying, You're basically dead to me. I want out of here. Exactly. I want out. Yes. Okay, so then uh, why don't you start paragraph having obtained his patrimony?

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Okay. Having obtained his patrimony, he goes into a far country, away from his father's home, with money and plenty and liberty to do as he likes. He flatters himself that the desire of his heart is reached. Yep. There is no one to say, do not do this, for it will be an injury to yourself, or do this because it is right. Evil companions help him to plunge ever deeper into sin, and he wastes his possessions with prodigal limbing.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

There's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

I have something on this.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Okay, go. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Okay. The whole thing about the flattery stuck out to me.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Um, if we go back to page 191. Okay. 191 of types and symbols. Yep, 191 of types and symbols.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Looks like that's 161 for the original pagination. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

So if we look at the bottom paragraph there, begins, we need to shun everything. Yep. She goes, we need to shun everything that would encourage pride and self-sufficiency. Therefore, we should beware of giving or receiving flattery or praise. It is Satan's work to flatter.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

So every time I hear the word flattery, I always think like he's he's talking to himself in Satan's language. He's flattering himself. He's like, Yeah. He's making it smooth, like, oh, you're not doing so bad. What you did to your father's not so bad. You're doing the right thing. Just go your own way, you know? And anytime we flatter ourselves, we are in danger. We should check ourselves when we start doing that. Or if somebody's trying to flatter you.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah, well, one of the most important things to think about, um, this is a great point you're breaking up here. The idea of flattery is to say something that is disingenuous. Yeah, you're trying to get the floor. If I say, if I say, Dad, you look really great today and I love this shirt on you, that's not flattery. No, it's because I mean it. Exactly. But if I say a bunch of flattering things and I'm just trying to grease the wheels to kind of ingratiate myself to that's flattery. Yes. This is why back in the Bizarre of Ages, some of you might remember Owen White says that Jesus never spoke a word of flattery.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

No.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Because flattery is basically lying.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

And it can appeal to somebody's like prideful ego and stuff too, if you're just stroking that, you're just like getting them all more self-involved.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

And think about this. How much I mean, who's the easiest person to deceive? It's yourself. Yeah. So when it says that he flattered himself, it's basically saying he lied to himself to make himself feel better. Yeah. That's what's going on here, right? So basically it says he flattered himself. Yep. Where is it at here? He flatters himself if the desire of his heart is reached. He's lying to himself and never forget, friends, the easiest person to fool is yourself. Yep. Don't lie to yourself. There's two things you've got to do. You've got to be honest with God, you've got to be honest with yourself. And the prodigal son is not being honest with himself. I think he knows this is a dead end. And happily for him, he's going to run out of money and there's going to be a famine in the land. Because that's only going to shorten what could have been a much longer, drawn-out period of partying dissolution, harlotry, et cetera. Yep. So this is what looks like it's going to be, oh no, my money's running out and there's a famine in the land. Best case scenario. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Okay, very good. The other thing I like here is you really pick up on a couple themes here that she's going to unpack. This whole theme of liberty and restriction. You see these words up here: restraint, restricted, liberty, uh, to follow the dictates of his own inclination, obligation. And then here, she specifically says there's no one around to say, don't do that or do that. So he just wants to be completely free of restraint. Or we should say, more precisely, he thinks he wants to be completely free of restraint. And this is what the fallen person wants, Deb. It's what you want. That's what I want. What we think we want is to be totally free of restraint. But actually, that's not what we want. If we got that, we would end up, like the prodigal son, hanging out with pigs, coming to ourselves, and finally returning home to our father.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

You got something there? It looks like you're turning somewhere. No, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

It's for our next when we get to the next one.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Okay. I was just getting a Bible stuff. So let's jump down there and read then the Bible Tells of Men. Why don't you read that for us?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

The Bible tells of men who professing to be wise became fools. And this is the history of the young man of the parable. Yep. The wealth which he has selfishly claimed from his father, he squanders upon harlots. The treasure of his young manhood is wasted. The precious years of life, the strength of intellect, the bright visions of youth, the spiritual aspirations, all are consumed in the fires of lust.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah, and he would not be the first young man about whom this is true.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Yeah. She uses that word squander a lot in this chapter.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Oh, exactly. Yeah, it comes up here on this next page. Yeah. You notice the NIV rendered it that way. When you read it, the NIV, squandered living, which is quite an interesting word. So I just want to say something here briefly about this paragraph that Deb just read. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Masculine energy has to go somewhere. Right? Like, like there is inside of young men, especially a drive. It's a lot of it's hormonal. There's testosterone, there's muscles, there's, I mean, as the father of two boys, you just see that that young male energy is not going to dissipate. It's not going to go away. It's going to be channeled somewhere. Now, sometimes people get into drugs or they get into gaming or whatever, and then it just kind of just turns people into shells of themselves. But in general, young men crave adventure. They want to go out there. They want to try themselves. They want to prove themselves. They want to throw themselves against the world and see if they can succeed. Now, here's the thing this masculine energy can go positively or negatively. Like you can throw yourself into service and into the kingdom and into helpfulness and into education and into building a family. That's like a good use of masculine energy. Or you can throw yourself, as the prodigal does, into riotous living.

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

But this energy is that the language that she uses here, look at it. The treasure of his young manhood is wasted. The precious years of his life, the strength of intellect, the bright visions of youth, the spiritual aspirations or ambitions. All that's the language. Not that young ladies aren't also driven, but there's something in young men to throw themselves, as it were, against the world and to see if they can make something work. And they, that's either going to be channeled negatively or positively. Yeah. And it's channeled negatively. Yeah. Like he throws himself against the world and he loses all of this. She says that all of this, what could have been really good masculine energy channeled in the right direction to serve his father, to build a family, to raise children, is now, in her words, consumed in the fires of lust. Yes. And then happy, happily, he would have not thought it was happy at the time, but a famine comes. Yeah. This is great news. He doesn't think it's great news. And a lot of times the things that happen in our lives that we don't think are great news are actually really great news.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

And this doesn't look good, but it's really good. Why don't you read that for us?

SPEAKER_01 40:45

You want me to do this whole next paragraph?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Yeah, a great famine.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

This is a long paragraph. All right. I got something to say after it. Okay. A great famine arises, he begins to be in want, and he joins himself to a citizen of the country who sends him into the field to feed swine. To a Jew, this was the most menial and degrading of employments. The youth who has boasted in of the youth who was boasted of his liberty now finds himself a slave. He is in the worst of bondage, caught in the cords of his sin. The glitter and tinsel that enticed him have disappeared, and he feels the burden of his chain. Sitting upon the ground in that desolate and famine stricken land with no companions but the swine, he is fain to fill himself with the husks on which the beasts are fed. Of the playful companions who flocked around him in his prosperous days and ate and drank at his expense, there is not one of them left. Where'd they all go? Yeah, where'd they all go?

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Where they're all going.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Where now is his riot as joy? Still his concise, benumbing stilling his conscience, benumbing his sensibilities. Yeah. He thought himself happy. There it is again. But now with his money spent, with hunger unsatisfied, with pride humbled, with his moral nature dwarfed, with his will weak and untrustworthy, with his finer feelings seemingly dead, he is the most wretched of mortals.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

This paragraph's incredible. Okay, what do you got? Okay, he's saying that several things.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Well, there's two things that stuck into me. The famine.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

And where he thought he was free and now he's a slave.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah, I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 42:11

So the famine part, um, what really what really got me about the famine, I started thinking that there's actually two famines going on here. Okay. There's a literal famine. A literal famine. The literal famine that's going on the land. There's no food. People are starving. Yeah. And he's also in a spiritual famine of God's word. Excellent. And that made me think of Amos A.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Amos A. Yeah, I wonder if you were going to go to Amos chapter A.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

A famine in the land. Um, let me read that. The days are coming, declares the sovereign Lord, when I will send a famine through the land, not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the Lord. Yes. Come on now. So I'm like, he's he's in a physical famine and spiritual because he can't hear his father's spiritual love anymore. And then the whole part here where he says the youth who has boasted of his liberty now finds himself a slave, it made me think of um Romans 6 16. Do we hear the same thing? No, I just I just imagined that you were gonna hear Romans 6 and Amos saying Like you're slaves to the ones who you obey either from sin or righteousness. You got it. So when he thought he was free, he really wasn't free and he became a slave.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Exactly right. And the language that she uses there, you know, like where's all the tinsel, right? Like it's all the thing that you thought would bring great joy. And she uses that language here again. He thought himself happy. Yeah. In the page before, he flattered himself that he'll be happy. Do you know what I had the tell me if you like this, Deb? I love this line here. It says, sitting on sitting up on the ground in that desolate and famine stricken land, and I love your point about how the external, actual famine is mirroring the internal famine. Exactly. How about this line? With no companions but the swine. And then I think she's purposely making this point because she goes on to say, after she says his companions are just the pigs, right? Which again, you have to hear this in the first century audience. Every Jewish Here it would have gone, oh pigs. Right? And and the language here, he didn't just make a friend when it says he joined himself to a citizen of another country. Yeah. He kind of like relinquished his Jewishness. He he became, as it were, non-Jew. He joined himself to the people of that land. And then to twist the knife, Jesus says he was hanging out with the pigs. And you know that this is the point she's making.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

Because she says, of the playful companions who flocked around him in his prosperous days and ate and drank at his expense, there was no one left to befriend him. And here's what I wrote in my margin. The people that he has left, or the friends that he has left, are the pigs. And check this out. The pigs are better friends to him. You want to know why? They're telling him the truth about a situation.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Right? Yeah. Because you think about all those other friends. Nobody's flattery, friends that are around him. They're not telling him the truth. The pigs are telling him the truth. The pigs are better friends to him than his so-called friends because the pigs are telling him the truth about the actual situation that he's in. Yep. And friends, like I like to, I used to say to my boys all the time, show me your friends and I'll show you your future. Exactly. Show me your friends. And I just love this idea here that she's purposely making this point. Like, the friends are all gone. But his faithful companions, the pigs, are there, and with their eating the pods, they're telling him the truth. Yeah. They're telling him the truth. I love it. This is what you chose to be here with us. That's right. Here we are. Just all of us pigs hanging out together. And then he comes to himself, right? And so let's read there at the bottom. What a picture here of the sinner's state. Although surrounded with the blessings of his love, there is nothing that the sinner, bent on self-indulgence and sinful pleasure, desires so much as separation from God, which is another major theme in this chapter. Like the ungrateful son, he claims the good things of God as his by right. He takes them as a matter of course and makes no return of gratitude, renders no service of love. And then she makes the comparison with Cain. As Cain went out from the presence of the Lord to seek his home, as the prodigal wandered into the far country, so do sinners seek happiness in forgetfulness of God. And here's where she really starts speaking up on this language of the far country, because the whole idea of the far country is separation. I want to get away from debt, I want to get away from my home, I want to get away from my land, I want to get away from my people. And now she's going to start driving at this point that we think true happiness will come in separation.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

We've got to get away from the restriction, from the constraints, from the obligations and duties.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

That's the point she's clearly driving at.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

So actually, then both both sons were like Cain at one point.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Yeah, that's exactly right. Now is like Cain in that he leaves, and the other's like Cain in that he says, Am I her brother's keeper? Yeah. Yeah, very good point. Excellent. And then the next paragraph is the one where she uses the word squandered over and over again. Why don't you read that for us?

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Whatever the appearance may be, every life centered in itself is squandered. Whoever attempts to live apart from God is wasting his substance. He is squandering the precious years, squandering the powers of mind and heart and soul, and working to make himself bankrupt for eternity. The man who separates from God that he may serve himself is a slave of mammon.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Slave.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

The mind that God created for the companionship of angels has become degraded to the service of that which is earthly and bestial. This is the end to which self-serving tends.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

Yeah. And he's hanging out with the beasts. Yeah. Right? Like that's part of the point here is that he's hanging out with the beast. He has become like a beast. But at least again, these beasts, these pigs, are telling him the truth about his condition, about his situation. And in a way, the pigs are telling him the truth about his father because it's the pigs that bring to his mind, hey, wait a minute. Here I am feeding these pigs, and my servants in my father's house are doing far better than I'm doing right now. So here again, the pigs are kind of telling him the truth. But she, in this paragraph twice, she uses this to live apart from God. And then she says, the man who separates from God. She's gonna drive at this point about separation over and over again. What else do you got in this paragraph?

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Um, I don't think you're really having any single words.

SPEAKER_00 48:13

Okay, so you're happy with that? Yeah. Okay, let's go to the next paragraph. Bottom of page 239. If you have chosen such a life, you know that you are spending money for that which is not bread and labor for that which satisfies not. There come to you hours when you finally realize your degradation, alone in the far country, aka separated. You feel your misery, and in despair you cry, O wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death, Romans 724.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

It is the statement of a universal truth which is contained in the prophetic words: cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart departs from the Lord, separates from the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

For he shall be like a shrub of the desert, and shall not see good when and shall not see when good comes, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness in a salt land which is not inhabited, Jeremiah 17, 5 and 6. God makes his son to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust, Matthew 5, 45. But men have the power to shut themselves away, separate from the sunshine and the shower. So while the sun of righteousness shines and the showers of grace fall freely for all, we may be separating ourselves from God still and still inhabit the parched places in the wilderness. Okay, so she's driving here this idea that we are, we can be like this prodigal son, separating ourselves, thinking we're gonna get freedom, we're gonna get liberty, we're gonna get opportunities, we're gonna have the time of our lives, yeah, only to wake up and be like, wait a minute, I'm hanging out with pigs, and all of my friends have gone, and I'm in a far country. These are not my people, this is not my land, and I want my dad. Yeah, right? I want my mom, I want to go home.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

And this is really great. It's the best possible thing that could have happened to him. Yeah. Right? When you get a lot of people, you gotta hit rock bottom before you realize you were on your way down.

SPEAKER_01 50:08

Yeah.

unknown 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

So I love it. Uh, you got anything more there? You want to read the next paragraph?

SPEAKER_01 50:13

I can read the next paragraph.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Okay, let's do it. The love of God still yearns.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

The love of God still yearns over the one who has chosen to separate from him.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

There it is again.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Separate from him. Yep. And he sets in operation influences to bring him back to the father's house. There we go. The prodigal son in his wretchedness came to himself. The deceptive power that Satan had exercised over him was broken. He saw that his suffering was the result of his own falling, and he said, How many of my father's hired servants have bread enough to spare, and I perish with hunger? I will arise and go to my father. Miserable as he was, the prodigal found hope in the conviction of his father's love. It was that love which was drawing him towards home. So it is the assurance of God's love that constrains the sinner to return to God.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

The goodness of God leads you to repentance. A golden chain, the mercy and compassion of divine love, is passed around every imperiled soul. The Lord declares, I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore, with loving kindness I have drawn you.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Amazing. So good here. So now the prodigal is coming to himself. Yep. And we need to make this observation about the prodigal son. This is a crucial part of the story, everybody. The prodigal son does not return to his father out of pure motives. No. His motives are clearly, I mean, his motives are actually selfish.

SPEAKER_01 51:30

He had a need. He was hungry.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

He's like, I'm hungry, and I think my dad will take better care of me than this stranger that I've joined myself to. And the and the lesson here is unmistakable. When people come to Jesus, when people come to God, when they're coming out of a broken life, and in our sermon today that we went to, we talked, you know, Pastor Kenneth talked about brokenness. Yeah. When we're coming to God, God does not hold us to account that our motives are absolutely perfect. God can grow and develop and mature our motives, but we don't have to have the idea that people need to come to God for the right reasons. We just need people to come to God. Yeah. Right? To come to God. And when people come to God, God can sort out the motivations, the details, the reasons that they came. And the prodigal son is going really out of self-interest. He's starving, he's hungry, and he knows he's going to get treated better better in his father's home, even if he goes back as a servant.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Yeah. Like I like in this second paragraph, which where he talks about um where she says, but he adds, showing how stinted and is his conception. Yeah. His father's love. Make me like one of your hired servants. And I just have here that we really don't understand God's love and how much he loves us. Yeah. It's like we we think God will treat us like we would treat us.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Yeah, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

He so he doesn't understand that his father is not gonna do that to him because he doesn't understand his father's love. Correct. So he thinks, well, I would I would say how ourselves. I would make myself a servant, so obviously he's gonna make me a servant. God does not relate to us that way. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

We don't understand that. And she even makes the point a little bit later that that that's how the older brother would have related to the younger brother. Yeah. Like if the older brother was in charge and the younger brother came back, that the older brother would not have received him. So the same kind of thing. He would have made him a servant.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:19

Now here's a really important point. And and it's it's very important that everybody gets this. So when Jesus talks about in the parable itself, when Jesus talks about the the things that the prodigal son is planning to say to his father, right? It's it's basically made up of, let me grab this here. It's made up of a couple parts, really two parts. So let's go look at it. Join me there in Luke 15. You've got to see this, because if you miss this, you miss a really important part of the parable. Okay, so the the young man has come to himself, and it says here, uh, when he came to his senses, he said, How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death. Verse 18. I will set out and go back to my father and say to him, now you're gonna want to make a note of this if you didn't already do so. There's two parts to what he's gonna say to his dad. Two parts. So here's part one, or part A. Father, I have sinned against heaven, and against you I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Okay, that's part A. I've sinned against heaven, I've sinned against you, I'm not worthy to be called your son. A, here's B. Make me like one of your hired servants. That's the B part. Okay, now this is very important because as we're going to see, when the prodigal son comes back home, he says exactly the first part. Yeah. I mean, he says it literally verbatim. And when Jesus tells the story, he says, I am no longer worthy to be called your son, make me like one of your hired servants. But before he gets to say, make me like one of your hired servants, the B part, the father wraps his arms around him, puts the robe. In other words, here's the key. Did Jesus leave that part out? No. The reason that Jesus includes that detail, the actual rehearsed speech, is because he wants you to know the mentality with which he's coming back. He's coming back, like your point. Yeah. He thinks he's coming back as a servant, but he never even gets those words out because the father cuts him off.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

But the reason that Jesus includes that is not that Jesus is being sloppy in his storytelling. Yeah. It's that Jesus gives us an insight. He's letting us know what was going on in the mind of the young boy. And the young boy, and this is your point, it's a great one. The young boy thinks that his father is going to treat him the way that he would treat himself in that same situation or the way the older brother would treat him. Yes. Bam. I'll come back as a servant. I will work my way. I'll show you I'm worthy.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

I'll work my way back into your good graces. I've done wrong, and I'm going to make it up to you. I'm going to fix this. It's basically what he's saying. I'll fix it. Yeah. But there's not going to be, not only does he not fix it, God doesn't even the father doesn't even give him a chance to say that he's going to fix it. No.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

He doesn't even give him a chance to say he'll be a servant. It doesn't even come out of his mouth. No. Okay, so let's go here to middle of page 241. The young man turns. Why don't you read that?

SPEAKER_01 56:08

The young man turns from the swineherds and the husks and sets his face toward home.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Home.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Trembling with weakness and faint from hunger, he presses eagerly on his way. He has no covering to conceal his rags, but his misery has conquered pride. Woo! And he hurries on to Betty's servant's place where he was once a child.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Oh, underline it. To beg a servant's place where he once was a child. He thinks he's gonna go back as a servant. Because again, Devin, this is your that's how he would treat himself. Exactly. And that's how the brother that's how any person other than the father would treat him. Yep. Yeah, you're darn right. You wronged me. Yeah. You disgraced my name. You brought shame on this family, and you're gonna have to work long and hard, even as a servant. That's what he thinks is gonna happen. Yeah. And he would have taken it. He would have. It's better than hanging out with the pig. Yeah. He has no idea what's coming. Okay, keep reading.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Um little did Little did the high-spirited, thoughtless youth, as he went from out from his father's gate, dream of the ache and longing left in that father's heart. When he danced and feasted with his wild companions, little did he think of the shadow that had fallen on his home. Mercy. And now, as with weary and painful steps he pursues the homeward way, he does not know that one is watching for his return. Yes. But while he is yet a great way off, the father discerns his form. Come on now. Love is quick of sight. I love that. Love my highlight of sight. Not even degradation of the years of sin can conceal the son from the father's eyes. He had compassion and ran and fell on his neck in a long, clinging, tender embrace.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Ah, okay. I got a lot to say here. One of them is first of all, this never gets old. So good. It's the best parable that Jesus told, in my opinion. It's my favorite. Yeah. But we have to hear this how the first century audience would have heard it. What the father does here is unexpected. It's it's it's humiliating. They wouldn't have run in that culture. No, and certainly not to the son that has brought dishonor to your name and disgrace to your name, and who's wasted who effectively you said to your dad, you're dead to me. Yeah. I'm out of here. You're dead to me. And so so there's all kinds of reversals of expectation in this parable. One, the son, younger son speaks first. And now, to we haven't even heard from the older brother yet. Yeah. Now for the father to run out in this way and kind of genuflect and prostrate before his son who brought shame on him. I mean, everybody would have been wincing at this. Yeah. Like, what? What kind of a father does this? And this is the very point that Jesus is making. This is the heart of God for the outcast. Remember though, all the social outcasts are sitting there. Yeah. And they're all leaning in to hear this parable. And the religious leaders are going, what on earth? What kind of a crazy, yeah, shameless, dishonorable person is this father? He has no self-respect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

I love the whole great way off part. Yeah, okay. I'm just like, while he's yet a great way off, the father discerns him. I love it. And yeah, like when I when I started coming back to God, I was a far way off. A great way off. And like he just met me where I was and like just brought me back slowly, you know? And well, it's so it's so great when you think about it and you see like all the ways that he worked stuff out to like bring you back.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

And he never held all the years I was away from him, all the things I did I shouldn't have, the way I was living, that wasn't the best.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

Yeah, and you had your little practice speech. Yeah. But he didn't get to say it. Yeah. He's like, My daughter's home. Here's a robe, here's a ring, here's some singles.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

I mean, and like you like were saying earlier, it's it's usually when you hit rock bottom, like my life blew up. My life totally fell apart. Yeah. My husband left me. I had no plan. There was a famine in the land. There was a famine in the land. I was famished. And he just he just met me there. He's like, I I didn't know how to even start. I just my you know, I had my brother that came alongside me and helped me, and I just started slowly going back to church, and he just thank you, Jesus. He just kept like bringing me along every little step of the way. He never made me feel this is your brother. He's a pastor, right? He's a pastor, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

Well, yeah, he never made me feel, and I never felt that God was making me feel like I was I couldn't come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

I would tell myself I couldn't come back. I, you know, I was like, I'm done, you know, I've left him for so long.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

And you were beating yourself up. Yeah. But he wasn't beating you up. Oh, he's not beating you up. Remember yesterday in the lesson with Tanya, when the when the shepherd finds the sheep, she makes the point. She says he doesn't scorn the sheep.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

Like he's found the sheep and he's just happy. So he doesn't, he doesn't, you know, remember, like, you know, when you're like potty training a little puppy, like my dad used to like when the puppy would like poop in the house or pee in the house, my dad would like put his nose in it. Yeah. And I was always like, oh, does the dog really understand the point you're making here? And I don't know enough about dog training to know if that works or not. But God doesn't do that. No. God's not like, Deb, look at this mess you made of your life. What have you been doing for the last 20 years? 20 years. Yeah. Look at this. Putting your nose in it. No, that's not what he did with you. It's not what he did with the prodigal son. And that's the point that Jesus is making. Exactly. It's full, instantaneous reinstatement because of the Father's love. You don't have to grovel back into his presence. You are my daughter. You are my son. Let's have a party.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

And it takes, I mean, it takes a while to really get your head around how much God loves you and the way he loves you. And I'm still learning that, but I've got a better picture of it now than I ever had.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

And parables like this and chapters like this are gonna help.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

Yeah. And what you were just saying about God doesn't hold it against us. Like I even had that note on like page 243 in the paragraph where it says, in the parable, there is no taunting, no casting up to the product of his evil course. The son feels the past is forgiven and forgotten, blotted out forever. I mean, that happens instantly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

Then again, the son feels that the past is forgiven, forgotten, and forgotten. Ladies and gentlemen, if God relates to your past as if it's forgiven and forgotten, don't be beating yourself up about it. No. I mean, forgiven and forgotten. She says it, blotted out forever. Look at those three words there. For given, forgotten, forever. Yes. Write it down. Underline it. For given, forgotten, forever. There's no period of groveling. There's no intermediate state. There's no liminal phase where it's like, well, you're on probation.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

We'll see, Deb, how you do. We'll put you in the field of work for a while and see how you're going to do it. Yeah, we'll see how you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:53

It's like instantaneous reinforcements. Yes. Did I ask? Wow. I wrote God doesn't say I told you so.

unknown 1:02:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

He treats us like we had never done anything wrong. We come back to heaven.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

And I actually, my father said I told you so to me when my marriage fell apart.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:08

He did say so.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

So you're your earthly father. Yeah. Well, does your earthly father love Jesus? Um He'll come around.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

He's he's passed now.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

He's passed away. He won't come around.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

I I hope he made us, I hope he was right with God before he died.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

And that's between him and Jesus. That's because we're not going to be able to do that. But the point is this is a great point. Yeah. Our earthly fathers, I mean, my first dad left me, my second dad left me and my brother. Like earthly fathers can let us down. Friends can let us down. I mean, look at the friends here, the ones that were hanging out when they were having a great riotous time, squandering all of uh the prodigal's father's livelihood. Yep. Yeah. So people get it wrong, but God doesn't get it wrong. No. God gets it right. You know, even our friends around us or our family around us will pull out the old I told you so. Yes. But God, God was the one who could say this is the whole point of John 8, right? Like the woman is caught. She's in adultery. She's right there. It is absolutely true. And Jesus says, He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone. The only one in the room who could have legitimately cast the stone was Jesus. Yes. And he doesn't. Nope. So the only one who can give you the great big giant, I told you so, Deb. I told you you were going to wreck your life. I told you you shouldn't have gone with that guy. I told you doesn't. Because what's the language here? What's the language? Forgiven, forgotten, forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

Woo! Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Great. Yes. And then you know what I love? I love. To me, this is just kind of a great little thing that Ellen White does here. On page 243, she like throws gospel passage after gospel passage. And did you notice every one of them is from the Old Testament?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Isaiah 44, Jeremiah 31, Isaiah 55, Jeremiah 50, next page, Micah 210, Isaiah 44. Like, she throws all of these gospel passages at the story of the return of the prodigal son. And every one of them is from the Old Testament. I think she's making a point here. The point here is all of these passages were available for the religious leaders who were listening to this parable. Yes. If he starts quoting Paul, well, Paul is yet future to when Jesus is speaking. And Paul was not accessible, obviously, for chronological reasons, to the people that are listening. But all of these passages, Isaiah 44, Jeremiah 31, Isaiah 55, Jeremiah 50, Micah 2, Isaiah 44, and hosts of others are available to the religious leaders and to the prodigals that are all sitting there. And it's such a strategically smart move. Ellen White throws all of these gospel passages against the wall, and every one of them sticks. Yep. I love it. I absolutely love it. I see you've got the next paragraph like highlighted.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Well, I actually have an all-time paragraph. You got an all-time? The bottom of page 244 for me is an all-time. Okay, all time. First all-time paragraph this time, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

Okay, this is an all-time. This is an all-time for me. I had one all-time earlier. Remember that great. Oh, you did. I missed a lot of things. I actually didn't say it, but here it is where she says, Um, no man can empty himself of self. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Then a language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart, for I cannot give it. It is your property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for you. Save me in spite of myself, my weak and Christ-like self. Mold me, fashion me, and raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere where the rich current of your love can flow through my soul. To me, that's all time.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:22

Yeah. So for this, you can't do it. This one's watching me because I feel like this is like this is your storm. This is me. She says, Arise.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:30

Read it.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Arise.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Let the record show this is an all-time dead paragraph. Let's see if it's all time for me, too.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:39

All right. Arise, go to your father. He will meet you a great way off. If you take even one step toward him in repentance, he will hasten to enfold you in his arms of infinite love.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

His ear is open to the cry of the contrite soul. The very first reaching out of the heart after God is known to him. Never a prayer is offered, however faltering. Never a tear is shed, however secret, never a sincere desire after God is cherished, however feeble, but the Spirit of God goes forth to meet it, even before the prayer is uttered, or the yearning of the heart is made known. Grace from Christ goes forth to meet the grace that is working for the human soul. I agree. I'm sold. It's all time. It's like to me, this was me. I was like I'm writing it down all time. I was like in this pit. I was like in the pig's dye. I was like, Where are you, God? And I was just the one that was just, you know, offering little barely feeble prayers. I mean, you can hardly call them prayers. You're just like I was like on aspiration for it. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know how I'm gonna get through this. And to me, this is just like God saying, Agree, I see you, I hear you, I got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

You love the threefold use of never.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

Never, never, never. And my favorite line of the whole thing, and by the way, I agree. This is all time for me. I totally agree, Deb. Yep. You convinced me, and it didn't even take much convincing. The last sentence is out of this world. Pay attention to this, you guys. The theology year is incredible. Look at the last sentence here. Even before the prayer is uttered, or the yearning of the hard-made note. Watch this. Grace from Christ goes forth to meet. Well, that's like the father, right? The father's not to meet. The father closes the distance. Watch out. Grace from Christ goes forth to meet the grace that is working upon the human soul. So this is incredible. Christ is gonna complete the circuit because Christ's Christ's grace is working on you, Deb, is working on the prodigal, is working on all of us. So then that grace is gonna go and meet the grace that's reaching out toward it. So this circuit, the circuit of grace, the circuit of beneficence, as Ellen White sometimes says. Yes, the circuit of divine love is God was working over there, and then he closes the distance. And the the language here of the father recognizing the son a great way off, and then almost like, you know, in a humiliating way, closing the distance is exactly the point she's making. That the grace kind of, you know how you get two magnets close to one another? Yeah. Right? And like not pulling, not pulling, and all of a sudden they go, Yep. Right? That's what's happening here. The grace over here, which is the grace of Christ, and the grace over here, which is also the grace of Christ, goes and meets in the middle. Yeah. And that's the father running to close that last little bit of distance. Yes. He meets Deb there, he meets the son there, he meets all of us right there. Amen. I did write this. Amen. I love this so much. Yes. To me, it's all time. All time, I totally agree. Yeah. I'm sold. Absolutely sold. And then Ellen White does the Zachariah 3 thing again, which we did back in like chapter 14. Right? She loves Zachariah 3. Right. She's absolutely Yeah, I know that too. She brought that into return. Zachariah 3. Okay, now we get to my least favorite part of the story. Yeah. The older brother, the only thing I'm going to say about the older brother, and I think it's a point he already made, and it's a good one. The older brother is a son acting like a servant. Yeah. Right? He was a servant. Both sons, in a way, are exactly the same. They both are sons with a servant mentality.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

Both are sons with a servant mentality. The one, the younger son, thought he was going to come back as a servant. And then the kind of surprising revelation, the disclosure here in the dialogue between the father and the son while the party's going on, the oldest son, is that the son has been an outsider, even though he's living inside the house, he's an outsider to his father's love.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

The younger son was an outsider to the house and to his father's love, right? But the younger son was an insider to the house and outsider to the love. And clearly, this is the religious leaders of the day. An insider to the father's house, but an outsider to the father's love. And I love, again, what Jesus does here. He leaves both stories just dangling out there, right? Like, okay, what happened? The stories are not complete.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

We don't know, again, if the prodigal son fully lived into the amazing status and vocation that was now entrusted to him. We assume that he did. We assume that he did. And we have instances of that, right? Like Zacchaeus and Levi Matthew and others that lived into that vocation. But it's still hanging there for us to say, no, I'm going to rewrite that story. And then it's there for the religious leaders. How will you rewrite this story? You're center stage now, Jesus is effectively saying to the religious leaders, are you this recalcitrant son living in the house, acting like a servant? The invitation is there, and I love that it's open-ended. Yeah. It's purposefully open-ended. And Jesus invites the decision of both the social outcasts that are listening and the religious leaders, and of course the disciples, yeah. Say, what role will you play in these parables?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Yeah.

unknown 1:11:45

Whew.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:46

What you got?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

I said um that the older son was focused on profit and what his service would get him.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:52

You got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:53

And then that reminded me of Mark 8:38.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

What what profit does it profit you to gain the whole world don't lose your soul? Excellent. It's the language of economics. Yeah. Which is clearly how the older son is thinking. He's thinking economically. Yeah. Oh, I've been living here all this time. I've done all this. You didn't give me a small goat to make merry with my friends. And you can just hear the father's incredulity. He's like, What? Yeah. He's like, everything I have is yours. Yeah. You can just feel the breaking of the father's heart. Like, wait a minute. You only look like a son, but in your heart, you're a servant. Yeah. Neither son knew the father's love.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

No, they didn't.

unknown 1:12:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:30

I said that he was looking for the great reward, but he had the reward of his father's love, and he didn't recognize that as the great reward.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

But the younger son realized what he had, and he went back to his father, and he was happy to just be a servant. Yes. He realized that his father treated even his servants with kindness and care.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:48

As the older son had the father with him, but he had no real relationship with the father.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:54

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:55

Just like those who, you know, if you just because you go to church and you might do all the right things, quote unquote, doesn't mean you have the father.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:02

Like she said yesterday, they're preeminently religious.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Yeah, it doesn't mean you have the relationship. And I wrote that it's transactional, not transformational.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

You got it. You nailed it. In fact, if you go to page 248, the top of page 248, she does this open-ended story thing in the paragraph that begins, was the elder brother? So this is page 209. Was the elder brother brought to see his own mean, ungrateful spirit? She's asking the question. Did he come to see that though his brother had done wickedly, he was his brother still? She asked the question. Did the elder brother repent of his jealousy and hard-heartedness? Again, she asks the question. And then watch this. Concerning this, Christ was silent. For the parable was still enacting. It's happening right there in front of them. Yeah. And it rested with his hearers to determine what the outcome should be.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:56

It's brilliant. In fact, I read this thing today in one of the commentaries I was reading about Luke 15 and the parable of the prodigal son, and it was saying that of all the stories of Jesus, this story has inspired more sculptures, more paintings, more songs, more art, more poems. Like you just think, I mean, I didn't count how many verses it is, but it starts in verse 11 and ends in verse 32. So it's like 20 verses. Yeah. 20 verses, and this incredible, incomparable story has captured the imagination, listen to me, of literally billions of people throughout history, including not just sinners and ordinary people like David and Deb, but artists and sculptors and painters and musicians. I mean, Jesus just spoke these words. And here people are hundreds and thousands of years later creating art to try and capture the beauty and profundity of what Jesus has done. Again, friends, no one could have written these stories. No one could have made this up. The reason that we have these stories in the Bible is because Jesus was real. These things actually happened. He actually said these things. Amen. And we should just stand in awe. I mean, you're you're an artist. You've written poems about this. Yeah. I mean, this should inspire us to go, wow. Yeah. The love of God. I'm going to read it again. I'm going to read it again. I'm going to read it again and again and again.

unknown 1:15:20

Horrible.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:21

And like I said, I just got so much more out of reading this story this time than I've ever gotten before.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

And there's so much there if people like really like search for it. Absolutely. I think a lot of times people just get a surface level view of it. They just think, oh, it's a great story. He came back and he took the father, you know, took the son back. I'm like, but there's so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

There's a lot going on there. And I'll tell you one of the things that's going on here. Here's another subtext of this parable. This is unmistakable, one of the lessons that Jesus is clearly driving at. Grace softens some and hardens others. Yeah. Right? Like clearly the grace of the father softens the younger son. Right? Like you can just feel that the younger son is astonished at the immediate, remember the words forgiven, uh uh, forgotten, forever. Yeah. Like the son is softened by the father's grace, but the other son is hardened by the father's grace. The jealousy, the seeming injustice of it all. And Jesus is holding this right in front of the religious leaders and saying, Here is grace available to you. This is the heart of God, quoting Old Testament, Old Testament, Old Testament, Old Testament, as Ellen White does. And then he's saying, Will you be softened by the grace of God? Or will you be hardened by it? Exactly. Yes. So I love your point about how you can just read it at a surface level, but there's layers upon layers upon layers of deep emotional, psychological, relational, theological profundity going on underneath all of this. Exactly. I'm with you. I'm with you a hundred percent. Um do you got anything else?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

Um, page 248, I know forty at the bottom. Okay. Where she says it's the bottom paragraph there. It starts. They saw Christ inviting publicans and sinners to receive freely the gift of his grace. And she's talking about the Pharisees here. The gift which he which the rabbis hoped to secure only by toil and penance, and they were offended. So that made me think we read another parable earlier on in the hidden treasure.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:26

And on page 126 of that parable, let's read what like that kind of twinle is, because there's two different kinds of worlds she's talking about. So on page 126, 111 of the original. Yep, she saw in the bottom paragraph there, like in the middle, she's talking about how we have to like find the earthly blessing. You can't get the blessings without searching diligently the scriptures and everything. It says, and we cannot expect to gain spiritual knowledge without an earnest toil. So that's the good kind of toil. Right. The Pharisees were doing a toil of penance and and works, and I'm gonna get myself to heaven because of how great I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

And like, look at the condition that they were in because the toil they were doing was not the right kind of toil.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

You nailed it. I mean, it's really our is it lay is it labor from or labor to? Yes. That's it. Is it toil from or toil to? Yeah. If it's toil from a right relationship with God, that's the good kind. Yes. If it's toil to get to a right relationship with God, that's the wrong kind. Exactly. So toil from or toil to, working from or working to. We're always working from a right standing with God that comes to us totally by grace. I mean, think of this. How much work has the son done when the father puts the robe, the ring, and the sandals? Zero. His status is immediately reinstated, forgiven, forgotten forever. And from there, he now lives a life of commitment and we can use the word toil or obedience or whatever language you want to use, holiness, growth, maturity.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:59

But he's growing from the right relationship that he has with God because of God's grace, not to it. And the Pharisees here again believe, the religious leaders think that they've got to kind of get their act together. Yeah, they don't want to solve it. You've got.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:13

And this is this is not the kind, this is an economic way of viewing reality. Yeah. Just like the son, the older son. Hey, I've been doing this and this and this and this. And the father's like, You're missing the point. You're my boy. Yeah. You're my son. Yeah. What do you mean you're working? Yeah. Um, I want to go to the very last page, page 250, 211 of the original. Okay. Paragraph begins. This is the service that God has chosen. Speaking of the right kind of service. Yeah. This is the service that God has chosen to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free. So she's back on this like whole freedom, liberty, slavery motif here. That you break every yoke and hide not yourself from your own flesh. Isaiah 58. And then this. When you see yourselves as sinners, saved only by the love of your heavenly Father, you will have tender pity for others who are suffering in sin. The social outcast that Jesus is speaking to in Luke chapter 15. You will no longer meet misery with repentance misery and repentance with jealousy and censure, or the grand I told you so.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:21

Right? Yep. When the ice of selfishness is melted from your hearts, you will be in sympathy with sympathy with God and will share his joy in the saving of the lost.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:33

Why don't I should read the next paragraph, then I'll read the last one.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

Okay. It is true that you can that you claim to be a child of God, but if this claim is true, it is your brother that was dead and is alive again and was lost and is found. He is bound to you by the closest ties, for God recognizes him as his son. Yes. Deny your relationship to him, and you show that you are but a hireling and the household, not a child of the family of God.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

Exactly. She's right back there. And then this though you will not join in the greeting to the lost, the joy will go on. The restored one will have his place by the Father's side and in the Father's word. He that is forgiven much, the same loves much. But you will be in darkness outside. Speaking of those that don't respond to the grace of God. For he who does not love, does not know God, for God is love. He is. It's the perfect ending. And I I love the parable. It's my favorite

Rubric

SPEAKER_00 1:21:35

parable. It's the best one. And I think her treatment of it is A plus. Yeah. Okay, you want to do the rubric? Yes. Rubric then poems. Okay. Because we gotta do blank person prayer practice. Poems. Um okay. Let me just look at my notes here to see if there's anything I didn't. I don't want to miss anything. Okay, uh, got that. Grace, yep, got that. Got that. Yeah, I think I got everything that I got that I wanted to say. Yeah, I'm happy. Um, okay. What was I I did kind of a funny thing on the rubric tonight. Something I've never done before. I do a funny thing, so we'll see what people think of that. Uh, Deb, for you, what was the point?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Um, I show said to show that you can always go back home to the Father, no matter how far you've strayed.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Yeah, beautiful. Excellent. Uh, my point was God is love. To tell a story or parable that perfectly captures this most essential biblical truth. That's clearly what Jesus is driving. Yeah. Okay, sir. How about the person?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:38

I put God is the loving father that is patiently waiting with open arms for his wayward children to come home.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:45

Whoo! I love it. Yep. I put God is love. Not merely loving, but love. I mean, this is what we learn about God's parable. Like it's the thing. God is love, not being loving an adjective describing a behavior. He is love, a noun describing his essence, who he is. So for me, God is love.

unknown 1:23:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:07

All right. Yep. Uh, how about the prayer?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:09

I put Father, help me not to take you for granted and to serve you not for what I can get. Yes. But to serve you because you first love me to take me as I am.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:19

Yes. Uh, can you guess what my prayer is? My cries is God is love. Father, teach me to love like you love, to hope like you hope, to believe like you believe. Not just to be the prodable that returns, but to facilitate other prodigals returning.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:40

I want to love like God loves. I want to hope like he hopes. Yes. I want to endure like he endures. I want to believe like he believes. Amen. Okay, what do you got for the practice?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

I put return, return, return.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:50

Love, return.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:51

Never stop going back to the Father.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:53

Yes. I love that. I love the fact that you make the point there that this is something that it's not just something we do once, what we do over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

You have to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:01

Guess what my practice says? God is love. God has love, treating others, prodigals, and Pharisees alike. This is important because remember, when Kenneth was here, he talked about the trap that Jesus laid for us with the parable of the uh tax collector and the Pharisee. That instead of us going, you know, I'm glad I'm not like this, yeah, you know, this tax collector, uh, you know, uh, and the adulterers and the robbers and all of this, we don't want to be like, I'm glad I'm not like these Pharisees.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:29

So I say, God is love. I want to treat others, prodigals and Pharisees alike, the way that God has treated me. Yes. Okay, finally, the promise.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:39

I put, no matter what you've done or how long you've been gone, God is waiting for you with open arms. All we need to do is return to Him.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:47

Beautiful. God is waiting for you. Uh my promise, unsurprisingly, is God is love. There is no greater promise for truth than this. It's the promise that contains every other promise. Friends, if God is love, every other promise in Scripture is true. Yes. So my point, God is love, my person, God is love, my prayer, God is love, my practice, God is love, and my promise, God is love. Yeah. Now let's do our words. Let's do our word. No, let's not do our words yet. Yeah, let's do our words do our poem and then our word.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:18

You want to do the poem?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:18

I want to do the poem. The poem. I want to do the poem, uh both of them or just one? Let's do the back to the father one. Okay. So this is you wrote this for this.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:26

Yeah. This is kind of like my story.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:29

So I wrote this. It's called Back to the Father. Back to the Father. Okay. The love of a father was always for me like trying to grasp the wind. I never knew when or if I would feel it. It felt out of reach, like something that would rescind. For me, a father's love felt harsh and critical. Why can't you do better? Be like them. It made me feel pitiful. So when I was told when I was young that God was my father, I wasn't sure, would I measure up? With me, would he even bother? I tried to do everything right and do it as best as I could. But I felt like a failure, trying to do things as I should. As the years went on, in my teens, my family fell apart. Where was this heavenly father now? I asked, and away from him I started to depart. The older I got, the less I ever sought him. I'm gonna find my own way in life. I don't need God to begin. For the next few decades I lived just for me, did what I wanted to, enjoyed life. I felt like I was free. But this freedom I thought I had started slipping through my fingers. Loneliness started hanging around more, started to linger. Then one dark December day, everything I had set up came crashing down. Worldly comfort and peace suddenly was nowhere to be found. When all I had left was nothing but my shattered heart, I started to remember the God I learned about growing up. Should I pray? But where to even start? There you go. So I decided to pour out my heart to a father I hardly knew. Were the things I learned about him when I was young really true? I always I was already at rock bottom, so life could only go up.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:07

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:08

So I started coming back to him, and little by little, each day he filled my cup.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:13

Slowly over time, he restored what the locusts had eaten. The world had let me down, but with him I wouldn't be beaten. The more time I spent with him, I realized I had him all wrong. He loves me more than any earthly dad, for over me he sings a song.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:28

Broken love he restored and brought a new family to me. Everything felt right and good, like it was meant to be. I am a modern-day prodigal that left my father's care, but I am living proof that it's never too late to come back to him. Call out, and in an instant he's there. No matter what you may have done or how far you think you've gone, it will never be too far for him. He's running to you with open arms, rejoicing as soon as you are back where you belong.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:55

Beautiful, beautiful, so good. I found myself trying to guess what you're. Rhyme word was gonna be because you'd you'd say something, and and I think I got song right when you did belong and then you did well I snuck some Joel and Zet the Knife. Yeah, yeah, that was good. I was waiting for the pigs to show up.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:14

Well, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:16

No pigs. No companions. I mean, you had companions that left you, but no pigs.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:22

Okay, let's do our word, and then we'll close with a beautiful poem called The Last Tier. Yep. Is that right? Okay. So you can okay. Let's do our word here. Now remember the rules here, Deb, are if you see your rule. If you see my word. If you see your, yeah, exactly. That's the rule. If you see your word, you gotta say, okay, Karen says that was beautiful. Stacey says beautiful. Dashy Dash 707 says beautiful. Very nice, Deb says Sabria.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:42

If people want copies, they can message me and I'll email them to you. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

Message Deb at Deb Snyder. She's on here. Okay, here we go. Katerskey says father. Uh Reiner and Alice say drawn. Servant. Return. That's my word. That's your word. Return. Okay, good. Excellent. Yep. Uh Cassandra says assurance. Uh Pac R828 says embrace. Ooh, great word. James says fell. Sandy says so real and beautiful. Maria says gift. Tia BB2 says assurance. Porovita SLP says reinstated. Great word. Bella says thanks for sharing. Beautiful poem, says Nicholas Smith. Let's see, forever. Great, Deb. Unconcealed love and pursuit. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:30

Another return.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:30

Another return. Run, says Tanya. Ooh, good. Love it. Forgive, share, says aka Shaggy99. God longs for us to accept our share of his inheritance. That's good. I like that. And then we share with others. Oh, I know that's very good. Love the double meaning. Home word. Okay, that's close to mine. Uh love, recognize, liberty. How do we message Deb? says Grandma Paparazzi. Love. I'm on Instagram. Yeah, we'll go over that in just a little bit. Love, meet, one step, or one step. Got it, Laura Campos. Restored. Her name's Laura Mapes. Laura Mapes. Okay. Just says who is Laura Campos on there? So why do we say that? Uh claimed David and Deb. Did you catch all the no's in the chapter? No, I guess I didn't. I'll have to go back and look for those. Lots of no's. Um, is your word homecoming or love? Oh, well, she says no sooner than a no. No, yeah, that's right. That's right. Uh Sandy says ties, worthy, love, home. Gay main 44. That's my word. Home. My word is home. Correct. Uh let's see. Unrealistic love yearns. Found. Uh Laura says, thank you, Deb. Shaggy says, Andrew says his word is oink. Oink. I like pig. I kind of like it. I kind of like it. That's good. Not gonna lie. 17 no's, apparently, in the chapter. Hope, joy, love, meat, says Wits Messi. God is always ready to meet with us. Uh, meet us with open arms. And you also have the killing of the fattened lamb or the fatted calf, and they ate some meat. Hi, Rubens, why? So you can do that. Um, Yuli says hello. Yeah. Let's see what else we got here. Unconditional love. Tanya likes home. Nicholas Smith. Okay, thanks, Deb. Sent you an IG request. Coral RN says, great presentation. Okay, so we've got another poem, and this poem's gonna be really beautiful because it's called The Last Tier. It's about heaven.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:27

Um, it's about Revelation, is it 224?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:30

Yeah, where he wipes the tears away.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:32

Where God wipes the last tear away. Now, that I really like this verse because when we were um when my kids were young, their mom died, and so I'm their adopted mom, I'm not their real mom.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:45

Um one time one night he was kind of sad about missing his mom because they were five when with they were five when she died.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:53

Um, so I told him I brought this verse up to him about that God will wipe every tear from their eye, there will be no more sorrow, no more suffering. And that kind of comforted him some little butt so I've always really liked that verse from that. So I just wrote this poem from the perspective of what the last tier can mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:11

Okay, I can't wait to hear the last tear by Deb Snyder.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:16

In the beginning of this world, when I first created you, there was joy and many great plans of the things we would do. Sorrow, pain, and suffering were never meant to be. But my plans for you or for your life were changed in an instant at the tree. From that moment on, sin and sadness came to stay, but I promised you it wouldn't be forever. Someday I would take it all away. As you've gone through this life, I've seen your highs and lows. I've watched your tears come and I've seen them also go. There were tears of joy when you met the one that you love, also ones of sadness when problems into your life did shove. Ones of anger when you were disappointed by a dear friend, what and ones of regret when you came to this life journey's end. The tears of joy are the ones I love the most, especially when they are because you've discovered the love of your heavenly father, and two others start to boast. The tears of the truly repentant, broken at the foot of the cross, remind me each time that the price I paid to save you was worth all that it cost. Tears are a part of this world, but they will not forever be. I promise to make all things new and right when I come back to take you home with me. For I made a vow that things in this life would not stay as they are now. I paid the price to buy you back, went to the cross, and wore the thorns upon my brow. So you see there is a tear that means more to me than you will ever know. It is the last tear that will ever be shed when I wipe them from you forever and never let you go. They will dry up and be gone, sorrow will be no more.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:47

The last tear that you shed will then bring you joy forevermore. So the next time you shed those tears, think forward to that day. When I come to claim you as mine always and send the darkness eternally away.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:59

The last tear is the sweetest one. It's seen so much, it's true. It also sees the end result of what my undying love will do. Woo, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:08

The last tear. That was beautiful, Deb. Thank you. Have you written a lot of poems over the years? Yeah. Okay, so you're a poet.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:16

Uh yeah. I posted, I started a Facebook like called Soul Food. Oh. Like S O Ul Food. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. Like, I haven't done much with it in the last couple years, but I I post a lot of my poems on there and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:28

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:29

And I have a Substack page now, too. So if people want to follow me on the page. Oh, Substack? Yep. Substack, so you write on there. I write on there and post stuff, not just poems, just like devotional thoughts and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:38

So people can send you messages. They just message you on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:43

And then you can put them in touch with your various.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:47

If they want to give me an email, I can email them the poems if they want them.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:50

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Deb, thank you so much. And you did great. It was fun, right? I loved it. It was great. Easy. It's just sitting down, talking to David about Jesus, and you were here for what is my favorite parable, not to be quite. We love all of them. But if you had to choose one parable, I mean, in my opinion, this is kind of like I said, everybody's favorite parable. I mean, except for maybe the older brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:15

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:17

All right, let's close with prayer. Okay. Father in heaven, what a great lesson and a beautiful lesson and a life-changing lesson. Father, as we mentioned there briefly, this story that Jesus told has inspired art down through the centuries. And many millions, probably billions of people have been affected by this story. 20 verses, so simple and yet so relatable and so profound. And Father, we are just beyond happy that this isn't just a story. It's not just a nice uh tale that is told. It is the truth. It's the truth about you, it's the truth about your heart. It's the truth about the way you relate to us. And Father, we just want to claim right now that when we come to you, when we're tired of hanging out with the pigs and all of our friends, the quote-unquote friends have abandoned us, we come to you. And Father, we take the ring, we take the robe, we take the sandal from your hand, we sandals from your hand. We are happy to be reinstated immediately, forgiven, our past forgotten, and we are yours forever. And we receive that right now. And Father, we all, I think some of us have this sort of sort of residual older brother in us. And Father, forgive us where we are tempted to act like the older brother, to think like the older brother, to pull out the old I told you so. Lord, help us to live and then to extend, live in and extend the amazing love that you have shown for us and for the world. Father, we just want to rest right now in the great truth, the incomparably good truth that you are love. We believe that, we receive that, and bless us now, Father, as we go forward, whether in poem or in preaching or in whatever capacity we can to share this love with those around us. Bless us in that endeavor is our prayer. In Jesus' name. Amen. Love you guys. That was so good. Easy, right? And fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:24

You did great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:25

Was it fun?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:26

It was fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:27

Last night, Tanya is like, that was so fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:29

I was getting a little hot in the beginning.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:30

I was like, I'm telling you, let's get hot in here. Especially like all of our energy and the lights. Oh, you did great. I can't wait to do another one. Especially when we do.