Christ's Object Lessons - Chapter 13: Two Worshippers

Pastor David Asscherick is joined by Kenneth Martinez to discuss Chapter 13 of Ellen White's Christ's Object Lessons, which examines the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. Ellen White explores the dangers of self-sufficiency and self-confidence through the contrasting attitudes of these two worshippers, drawing powerful parallels to Peter's experience of denial and restoration. David and Kenneth work carefully through some of the chapter's more challenging paragraphs, showing how Ellen White emphasizes complete dependence on Christ rather than trust in self. The discussion highlights Ellen White's pastoral insight that we must fear our own weakness rather than doubting God's love, mercy, or willingness to save us—a theme beautifully illustrated through Peter's transformation and the assuring look of Christ that saved him in his moment of deepest failure.

Guest: Kenneth Martinez
Scripture References: Luke 18:9-14
Covers: Chapter 13: Two Worshippers
Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc0pXt3Nrx8
Light Bearers

Transcript

Greeting and Announcements

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to With DA. And once again, KGMM. That's right. Yeah. KM KGMM. That's right. Uh we are so glad that you are all here. Uh we have an enormous chapter tonight in our study of the incomparable parables of Jesus. We are in Luke chapter 18, and under normal circumstances, I would spend a long time greeting people and welcoming people, like between five and eight minutes. We're going to skip all of that tonight. Yeah. I'm just going to quickly say, Kenneth, how was your day? It was fun. It was busy but fun. Busy and fun. Right. How about yours? Uh I had an amazing day because I went rock climbing and I have not been outside rock climbing very much in the last month. Fun. And so I went out today. I met a new I have a new friend that I met. I took him out rock climbing. And uh it was his first time ever climbing outside. Oh, nice. Yeah, 19-year-old kid named Henry. And we had a great time. But we've got a lot to talk about tonight, Ken. Oh, for sure. We can talk about rock climbing. We've got to talk about Jesus. We are so glad that you are all here. We are going to get started. I invited Kenneth last night. I said, Kenneth, if you want to, if you're interested, send me a text. I cut the last part and I texted you. What did you say? You said, I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. The text just said, Here am I, Lord. Send me. So Kenneth is back. We are so delighted. We're in chapter 13 of our textbook, right? Studying again through the incomparable parables of Jesus. This chapter is titled Two Worshipers. It's long, there's a lot, and we're going to just get right to it. So, Kenneth, welcome everybody. We're so glad you're here. Welcome to Instagram Live. Welcome to YouTube. We're going to be in Luke 18 and in chapter 13 of Christ's object lessons. If you're just tuning in right now for the first time, you don't know what this is. It's a month-long study through the parables of Jesus. Tonight we're in Luke chapter 18 looking at one of the most interesting parables that Jesus told about two people that went to the temple. Brilliant. Okay, so Kenneth, uh, if you would have prayer for us, we're going to get right into

Prayer

SPEAKER_01 2:16

this.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Let's pray. Lord, we love you, but we only love you because you loved us first, Lord, because uh your salvation depends from beginning to end in you, in your work, in your intercession, in all of you, Lord. So we trust in your salvation, we trust in your character, we trust in you. We also trust that you will send your spirit to guide us in this study. I pray and I thank you in the name of Jesus.

Discussion

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Amen. Amen. Beautiful. Kenneth St. Thanks so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah, thank you for the event. I'm so glad you're here. I was so excited to be. I said to Kenneth when he walked in, I was like, Kenneth, you must have been quite a wild child with just so much energy bouncing off the uh walls, but he said no. No, I was just always with a book.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

I was just reading. Reading that reading, reading, reading. I've read. Studying, studying, studying. Right. I was never good at sports. I never excelled. And then I just said to him, I want to take him rock climbing. Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Are you gonna let me take you climbing? Sure. You can try it. He'll be fine. Many of the best rock climbers in the world are very skinny.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Oh, all right.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

So let's go. It doesn't matter if you're skinny, you just have to be strong. Okay, I'll try. How do you say strong? Fuerte? Fuerte, yeah, fuerte. Fuerte. Okay, we are in uh page 178 of the types and symbols. Looks like 150 of the original. Chapter is titled Two Worshippers. Welcome, everybody. We are super glad that you are here. Look at Landy says, Look who's back. Look who's back. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. Kenneth says Katherine. Thank you, guys. All right. Yeah. I mean, come on. Two times was not enough. Need it a third time. Uh, a lot going on. A lot of parable, long term. Why don't we start by you read the parable through in the NIV? You've got the NIV there. Yep. And then I'll read it through in NT Rites Translation. So we're in verse, is it Luke chapter 18, verse 9? That's right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

You read it and then I'll read it. Okay. To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable. Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed, God, I thank you that I'm not like other people, robbers, evildoers, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get. But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, God have mercy on me, a sinner. I tell you that these men, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exal exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. Okay. All right, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Yeah, I I've got so many thoughts. I know. Okay, let me read it here from the anti rights translation. He told his next parable against those who trusted in their own righteousness. Or excuse me, let me read that again. He told this next parable against those who trusted in their own righteous standing and despised others. Two men, he said, went up to the temple to pray. One was a Pharisee, the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed in this way to himself. Greedy, unjust, immoral, even like this tax collector. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I get. But the tax collector stood a long way off and didn't even want to raise his eyes to heaven. He beat his breast and said, God, be merciful to me, sinner that I am. Let me tell you, he was the one who went back to his house vindicated by God, not the other. Don't you see? People who exalt themselves will be humbled, and people who humble themselves will be exalted. Wow.

unknown 6:01

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 6:02

It's really good.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

It's so good, and it's so powerful. It's so it's not okay, like some of Jesus' other parables are like the kingdom of heaven is like yeast. You gotta think about you know the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard. This one's like everybody knows what it's about. Yeah, right, right. It's very do you know the word serrated? No. Like you have a you know, like on a knife, okay. You know, you'll have a knife's edge and sometimes they'll put the little ridges on the knife's edge. That's why it's serrated. And when you talk about, like if you say a comment was serrated, okay, it means it's kind of cutting. Cutting sharp, right? Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

It is sharp. This is like that. That's right. I think some of the parables in Luke go for the shock. Yes. We wouldn't expect correct what's happening. Because remember, Pharisees are not the spies in society in these moments. They are venerated. Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

And for Jesus to be so straightforward, so confrontational and and non-mysterious. Right. There, this doesn't this at one level, let me say it this way, Kenneth. Tell me if you agree with this. Yeah. At one level, this parable requires really no commentary. It's pretty straightforward. Like we could just read the parable, and the lesson is right there on the surface. That's right. But then at another level, I have so many questions. I want to why did Jesus tell this parable? Why did he tell it in this way? What would this have we know what it sounds like to us in 2026, but what would it have sounded like to the hearer in the first century? So I just have so many questions. So at one level, it's perfectly self-explanatory. It's evidence. And then at another level, you're like, what is going on? Right, exactly. And it's very surprising. It's just a great point you make about how the parables in Luke, I hadn't thought of this before, but some of the Lucan parables, including this one, are very pointed.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Right, right. Very serrated. Yeah, serrated is the word you use. Yeah, you're going to expect to have this type of ending. Everyone thought that Pharisees were righteous. Jesus is saying, no, actually, the tax collector, the tax, and the prostitutes are going behind you or before you, sorry, to the kingdom of God.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Remember back in the Sermon on the Mount when Jesus said, Accept your righteousness, exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees. And I imagine that many that were listening were like, Why? How could you have a greater righteousness than the super righteous, super holy Pharisees? Right. And Jesus here turns, and this is toward the end of the Gospel of Luke. So this is toward the end of Jesus' ministry. Right. Yeah. He turns the whole kind of cultural expectation of what it meant to be a Pharisee and what it meant to be a tax collector above its head. Right, upside down. Yes. Okay, so any preliminary observations about the parable before we get right into the chapter in Christ's Sobject Lessons.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

What's your sort of initial thoughts on the parable? The parable is uh surprising, it has a shocking ending. Yeah. Um, I think that these two people go to pray. I don't think she mentions this to the prayer time or during the prayer time. Yeah. Yeah. Twice a day. Yeah. So they're going to do that, but this guy, the first one, the Pharisee, comes a lot more confident. He fasts twice a week and gives a tenth of all that he earns. Those were not specific commandments of the law. Yeah. Those were extra additions by the Pharisees. You know, fasting twice a day. Twice a week. That's not in Torah. You only needed to fast during the a young kippur. Yeah. That's the only day that you were required to fast. And you remember when Jesus said you die even from your backyard garden. Yeah, yeah. Matthew 23, 23, you die mint and cumra and anise. So he's going beyond the expectations of the law. Right. Exactly. It doesn't work super well for him.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

Interesting. And I love the way that N.T. Wright says it there, that this one goes down to his house vindicated. Uh-huh. The other. In most translations, justified. Right. Justified. Which we tend to think of as a very Pauline word. Uh-huh. That's right. Yes. So this is quite an interesting.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

This is a use by Jesus, a word that he doesn't use a lot. That's right. And I actually, Luca, the root is uh the same root that Hilasterian. Yeah. That you're familiar with Romans. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Is usually used by Paul, but also by Jesus himself. It is justified or vindicated in your version by God. By God. The first one, the first one was a righteous in his own sight. Right. The second one is vindicated by God.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah. Okay, we've got a lot to talk about here. Um there is uh a lot of there's too many pages here to go through, but what we'll do is we'll just read. Yep. We'll do kind of what we did the other day, Kenneth, on the longer. What was this the longer one that we did together? Um the Things New and Old. Yeah, things new and old. And so we'll just sort of spend time in the opening couple pages. I mean, the first five paragraphs I actually found kind of hard to read because she's the first five paragraphs I said here, it almost feels like a caricature. Like really? But then Jesus' description almost feels like a caricature. Right, right. Like, is this the way that it actually was, or do you think Jesus has exaggerated for effect? Oh, that's a good question. Right. Like d I mean, I think that probably Jesus is capturing the way that they felt, but maybe not the actual things they said. Like maybe it wasn't so straightforward. Right. But in essence, in principle, this self-exaltation was the way that they conducted themselves and prayed and talked. Right, right. So I re- I found the first five paragraphs kind of hard to read because she's describing the whole time, basically, the experience and the perspective of the Pharisee. Right. And it's it seems simplified, right? It seems close. And it just seems I mean, are people really were people really like this? What do you mean? I mean, the temptation is to think that this is a flattening of something that was probably more nuanced and more but maybe not, because in Jesus' own telling of the story, it's not very flat. It's not very nuanced. Like, God, I'm super happy. I'm not like that guy. Right. I mean, it's like, right.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

There it is. Well, you know, uh, from my experience, yeah, I was reading the first uh, and it is like a description, right? Yeah, and it really captured it, captured it from me. It is in period 151 of the old, you know, I know how this start, how does the paragraph? He proceeded to recount his good deeds. Okay, let's read that. Uh I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. I love this next line. The religion of the Pharisee does not touch the soul. He's not seeking godliness of character, a heart filled with love and mercy. He's satisfied with a religion that has to do only with outward life. I want to tell you why I appreciated this so much. I grew up in, you know, in a in a traditional church. It was a good church. But my brother and I, my younger brother, we always kind of we have a level of religious trauma. What's your brother's name? Uh Harrison. Oh, I met him.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's really cool. Yeah, he's awesome. Yeah, he's like a great preacher. He's a he's really he's like you. Yeah. But he's got he's not as skinny as you. That's right. Yeah. And he's he smiles just like you smile. Oh, yeah. He gives it back. Yeah, that's right. I met him.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

He's like cool. Okay, so you and Harrison grew up weird. Kept complaining about what we call the religiosity of you know, some people that we were familiar with. Yeah, okay. So you may think that this is uh one unidimensional. I've met people like this. Oh, okay. That really are all about the outward expression of faith. Yeah, you can see that they can be very uh into the minutiae of what you're supposed to keep, but within the heart, there is no, what does it say? Like expression of love and mercy. Yeah. So I feel I appreciate the fact that uh she is calling out a type of religion. Now, here's the brilliance of the parable. Yeah, let's hear it. The moment that I start doing thank you. Yeah, exactly right. And I'm not like this Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

You can reverse. Yeah, exactly. Okay, there's actually a I'm gonna make that point a little bit later, but that is the brilliance of the parable, right? That it it's almost a trap. Like a good trap. Like Jesus has almost laid a trap for us religious people. Because Kenneth, uh, you're a religious person, you're a pastor. That's right. I'm a religious person, I'm a pastor, I'm a teacher, I'm an evangelist. Like, if we're like, whoo, I'm glad I'm not like oh, wait a minute. Instead of saying instead of saying robbers, evildoers, and adulterers, I'll say Pharisees, legalists, racial Christians. Right. I'm glad I'm more progressive, I'm more advanced, more nuanced in my intention. So it's a trap. Right, yeah. But in a really good way. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Okay, I like it. I like it. This is a great point. Yeah. Um, so the first five paragraphs really are describing the experience of the Pharisee. This is Ellen White's fleshing out and teasing out of how Jesus describes the Pharisee in Luke chapter 18. So if you don't have anything more there, we'll kind of skip over. Okay, then she has the paragraph on the tax collector. But I think we should definitely read that. Yeah. Starting with the publican. Okay. Okay. You want to read it for me. I gotta put your right on this one. Okay. So while this is uh excuse me, top of page 180.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Top of page 180. Right, okay. The publican had gone to the temple with other worshippers, but he soon drew apart from them as honor worthy to unite in their devotions. Standing afar off, he would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smartered upon his breast in their anguish and self-abhorrence. He felt that he had transgressed against God, that he was sinful and polluted. He would not expect even pity from those around him, for they looked upon him with contempt. Well, he knew that he had no merit to condemn, to command him before God, and in utter self-despair he cried, God be merciful to me, a sinner. He did not compare himself with others. I love that. And that's amazing. That line is so good. As if alone in God's presence. His only desire was for pardon and peace. His only plea was the mercy of God. And he was blessed. I tell you, Christ said, These man went down to his house justified rather than the other. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I love the line. He stood as if alone in God's presence. So one thing that's kind of interesting is that she in in the kind of opening of the chapter, and she's setting the stage, she gives us five chapter or five paragraphs, excuse me, describing the Pharisee, but only a single paragraph describing the experience of the publican. And I wonder if this doesn't in some way mirror the many words of the Pharisee. Because the Pharisee has a lot to say. God, I thank you that I'm not like other people, robbers, evildoers, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and I give a tenth of all I get. That's long. That's a lot of words. But look at what the publican says. God have mercy on me, a sinner. Simple. And it kind of feels like, from a like an almost strategic literary perspective, Ellen White five paragraphs describe the experience perspective of the Pharisee, but only one paragraph for the because it it's simple. Right. He feels unworthy. He has an internal sense of condemnation and shame and guilt, and he can't even lift his eyes up to heaven, and he just is basically saying, God, I'm a sinner. That's right. Have mercy on me. And a short prayer. And that doesn't need a lot of embellishment. That's just it is what it is. Well, that's right. Isn't that good? Yeah, that's really good. Now let me ask you this question. Uh-huh. Let's make it very personal here. Uh Kenneth, have you ever that you can think of had the experience of standing as if alone in God's presence? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Tell us about it. Yeah, for good and bad. Okay, let's hear it. Uh, you know, there are moments I try to, you know, do my devotions to see the Lord every morning. Okay, yep. And there are mornings, you know. You probably are familiar with this. There are mornings when I'm in the presence of the Lord with my Bible open on my knees, and I and I feel that nothing else matters. Uh I'm not in my office, I'm not in my house, I am in the presence of the Lord. It's the messing speech. But sometimes when I make a mistake, make a mistake, when I uh sin, I feel it's really hard to go before him. Yeah. And I feel, you know, the ideas, he's not gonna forgive me. I've gone too far, I'm doing this, you know. So in that sense, I also feel alone in the presence, but it feels a little bit. Oh, this is a good point. So you can feel this both ways, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Right. You can feel it in a moment of kind of devotional or religious, like almost ecstasy and joy, right? But then at other times you can feel that you're just almost outside of the presence. Right. You're just okay. You know, this has got a lot of Isaiah 5 in it, right? Like, so you have I'm sure you're aware of this, but in Isaiah 1 to 5, you have this, you know, Isaiah is a prophet, and he has a favorite word, and his word that he uses over and over and over again is woe. Right? Woe to you, woe to you, woe to you, woe to you, woe to everybody. Right. But then in Isaiah 6, when he goes into the temple and he sees God as God is, yeah, high and lifted up, the train of his robe filling the temple and all the glory and all the seraphim. Wow. Then he says, What? Woe to me, woe is me. Right. So he has this encounter. So we could say of Isaiah that he's having the publican experience, the tax collector's experience. Experience, right? Yeah. Because he's in the presence of God. Right. And he literally says, instead of saying, God have mercy on me, a sinner, he says, Woe is me, for I am undone. I am a man of unclean lips. Uh-huh. And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips. There are so many similarities. And they're both in the temple. That's right. There's so many similarities between the parable that Luke tells and the Isaiah 1 to 6 story, especially chapter 6. It would be a really great sermon. Right. Right. To preach the comparisons between because what's happening with Isaiah is he's going into the presence of God and in the and Ella White makes this point several times in this chapter. When we're really in the presence of God, this will not give us a heightened sense of our self-sufficiency and our ability and our righteousness, it will cause us to smite our chest.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

That's right. I love that you mentioned that because I haven't thought about it, but it really throws light into what she's saying, the belief that she's making. Exactly. That no matter in what stage of your spiritual life are you completely completely to be, you're still very dependent on God. Yeah. And either you're a tax collector or a prophet that just reviewed your nation, you got it, but in the presence of God is the same. It's the same. You realize that you're still exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

And clearly Isaiah must have thought that he was, and in fact, Ellen White actually says this in Patriarchs and Prop or Prophets and Kings, maybe it is one of the two. She says that Isaiah felt righteous. Wow. Because he's condemning. He's a woe is you, and woe is you, and woe is you. And he thought he occupied what we might call the moral hybrid. Uh huh. But then when he goes into the presence of God and he sees God as God is. In other words, Isaiah's not the standard. Yeah. Uh-huh.

unknown 21:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Isaiah's God is the standard, his infinite love, his infinite glory, his infinite holiness. That's the standard. And then Isaiah says, Woe is me. Uh-huh. Woe is me. I am undone. I'm a man of unclean lips. You get the sense that when the Pharisee goes in, he's comparing himself to his fellow Pharisees. Right. And he's doing all right. Yeah. I'm going to bring it into tax screen. And comparing himself to robbers and evildoers and adulterers. But the the Pharisee compares himself to others like him. Right. But what the tax collector does is he compares himself to God. Wow. So he has the Isaiah. That's right. I love that. That's right. Right. There's not even any mention of any horizontal relations. He just says, God have mercy on me. In other words, it's just him and God.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Right. Yeah. He's alone in the presence of God. Right. And that's why comparison that you married is so deadly. Because I think she says a little bit earlier. What does she say? What does she say? Which line? She says his mind, the mind of the Pharisee, is turned away from God to humanity. It's exciting on the point you mean. Exactly. This is the secret of his self-satisfaction. Anytime that you think about others that you compare to others, you're going to come out in the good side. You're going to pick the people that makes you feel better. Right. Anytime that you focus on what others are doing wrong, you're going to come out as a good guy. That is the right approach. That's why comparison is so deadly.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Paul says those that compare themselves among themselves are not wise. Right. Okay, so um then she goes on at the bottom of page 180 or middle of page 180, 152 in the original, she basically says that, and this is fairly self-explanatory, that these two individuals represent classes of people. That's right. Right? Classes of people, and maybe I'll just read that here. Yeah. The Pharisee and the publican represent two great classes, into which those who come to worship God are divided. Yep. Their first two representatives are found in the first two children that were born into the world. Cain thought himself righteous, and he came to God with a thank offering only, which I thought was interesting. He made no confession of sin and acknowledged no need of mercy. But Abel came with the blood that pointed to the Lamb of God. He came as a sinner, confessing himself lost. His only hope was the unmerited love of God. The Lord had respect to his offering, but to Cain and his offering he had not respect. The sense of need, the recognition of our poverty and sin is the very first condition of acceptance with God. And then she goes back to the opening line of the Sermon on the Mount. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. And she uses this language of poverty. So she just has this brief little paragraph here on Cain and Abel, which is fascinating. That's an interesting idea. Right. That, you know, one presents a bloody sacrifice, one a bloodless sacrifice. And that the idea is sort of embedded, because that's a fairly skeletal uh narrative. Like we don't get a lot of internal what's going on, nothing like we did here in Luke 18. But the basic idea is that one was a bloody and one was a bloodless sacrifice, and therefore Abel's offering signified Jesus, typified Jesus, but Cain's did not. A substitute. A substitute. Right. So you kind of get the idea here, and she's teasing out the idea that there was like self-sufficiency in Cain. Right. Right. Right? Like, I'll just bring she calls it a thank offering. Right. So that's kind of an interesting point. But then what she really goes deep on and spends a lot of this chapter on Peter. Right? She just has the single paragraph on Cain and Abel. And then it's like, we're going to be talking about Peter for pages. Yes. That's the main pages and pages and pages. I want to tell a funny story about this. So the first church that I ever worked in, not as a pastor, but as a Bible worker. Oh. I was a Bible worker. And I was a brand new believer, like six or seven months. Oh, wow. I was zealous. I was zealous. I was probably closer to the Pharisee and the tax collector at this stage. I was on fire. I was zealous. I knew what to do. I knew how to do it. I knew the Bible back to front. Right. This is what I thought. So, but I was passionate, and I ended up getting placed in a church with a few other Bible workers and a pastor who was from England. His name was Pastor Terry Mason. And uh he's I'm sure he's still out and around, out and about. You know, he's probably in his early uh early 40s, late 30s when I was there. So I'm sure he's still doing great. Um and I'll never forget, I think that the Pastor Mason detected pretty early on that I was zealous and I was a know-it-all. And he sat me down in his office one day. And he said, David, I'd like to have a talk with you. I was gonna be working with his church for almost a year, like eight months. Right. And this was maybe in the first month. He sat me down and he said, David, I I like you. And remember, I'm 20. How old am I? I'm like 24. Okay. I'm young, I'm like 24, 25. And he's like 42 or 43, so he has more life experience.

unknown 26:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

And he says to me, David, you remind me a lot of Peter. Wow. And here's the thing the moment he said it, I hated it. Really? I inside I was like, oh, who is this guy thinking I'm like Peter? Oh. But in in hindsight, I don't mind being like Peter because, like David in the Old Testament, Peter in the New Testament, you have your ups, you have your downs. Right. You have your ups, you have your downs. But both David and Peter ended up in the right place. And I think if I'm being totally honest now, uh, I think Pastor Mason's diagnosis of me was exactly correct. I think, I think he made I wasn't Peter, and the fact that I the fact that I resisted it was kind of it's like the trap of the terrorist. Everything, right? It's like the fact that I'm like, I'm not like Peter. Wait a minute. Right. I am like Peter. It just confirmed it. So I've always had a very special place in my heart for the story of Peter and the personality of Peter because I don't think it's too far off from me.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Uh-huh. For me, like for the regular person, right? Yeah. He's like any of us. He's like us. Right. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

In fact, I've often said that we would be far more tempted to give up in despair as God if we didn't have David in the Old Testament and Peter in the New Testament. Amen. Thank God for these men. Amen. Yes. Right? I mean, there's others as well, but thank God for people. So what she then does is she starts talking about Peter, right? She's using Peter as an example of someone who thought a certain way about themselves, but the way they thought about themselves was not entirely accurate. That's right. Right? So even if all are made to stumble, yet I will not. Right. Right? Mark 14, 27 and 29. Right. And she uses a number of phrases here. Peter thought himself strong. She says self-confidence misled. That's right. And he thought himself able to withstand temptation. But in a few short hours the test came and the cursing is for any denied his Lord. Right. So she she's going to now segue off of the Pharisee to talk about Peter, because, and I think it's a really smart thing that she's done here again strategically, because it's easy to hold the Pharisee at arm's length, right? Like you were saying. Like to say, okay, I'm not like that. Right. Because it's kind of exaggerated. Yeah. It's kind of extreme. Like, right. But then Peter, it's like, uh-huh. Yeah, that's I can relate to that. Yeah. So I think it's a really clever thing that she does, where she begins to describe the experience of Peter, the self-sufficiency of Peter, the self-confidence of Peter. And I find this very relatable. 100%. Where like the Pharisee, I find him repulsive.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Right. I would never really off-put it. That's my first reaction. Right, okay, right. But with Peter. And something that I really appreciate from her. Listen, I've read the Gospels many times. I've never come to this insight that she provides here. In the telling of the experience of Peter. Yeah, that his first was self-sufficient, but and compared it with others, he thought he himself would be the one standing. Yes. But he lost indeed that after the failure. I never uh recognized or realized this until she pointed it out. I guess it's in page uh 154 in the original.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Christ the paragraph start. Christ, after his resurrection, thrice tested Peter. Okay. And he asked the question. We are familiar with the story. Simon, do you love me more than this? I never noticed that Peter drops the more than this. He's not comparing himself anymore. He simply says, I love you, Lord. You know it. Like he's not saying, although no one else loves you, I will love you. Right. I'm better than all these guys. That's right, that's right. He left that behind, which is exactly her point. He matured out of that fainter experience. Wow, that's incredible. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Do you love me more than these? Peter did not now exalt himself above his brethren. Right, right. Yeah. Wow. And if you all pick that up, that's really good. Because the particular weakness of Peter was to compare himself to his brethren. Right. And here he doesn't do it. After his conversion, after his transformation. That's right. You know, Lord, you know all things. You know that I love you. Yes. Not that I love you more than them. The others. That's between them. Right. I love you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, this is so this is so good. Um, one of the things that I really like here is that she talks repeatedly about the look. Right? Repeatedly the look that Jesus gave Peter. At that moment, Christ looked at Peter, and beneath that grieved look in which compassion and love for him were blended, and this is key. Peter understood himself. So the look of Jesus. Have you heard this saying? We have a saying, Kenneth, and you probably have heard it before. It's fairly common saying, but we'll say things like, if looks could kill, have you heard that before? Yeah, yeah. So, like, like somebody gives you a real bad face, a frown, they're kind of glaring at you, and we'll say, ooh, if looks could kill. But how about this? Not only can looks kill, but looks can save. Amen to that. See, the look of Jesus to Peter was not a look to kill. It was not a look of condemnation, it was not a look of disappointment. Amen. It was not a look of how dare you. Right. It was a look of compassion and of love. So I often think about that. If looks could kill is something we say, but in the case of Jesus, that look saved Peter. That look was a mirror to him. She says, Right. When when when when Jesus looked at him, he understood himself. And here's what I try to do. Here's a great little practical lesson for everybody. Just try this. Sandy Patifer says, made me cry. Such love. Beautiful, Sandy. Try this. The next time you fall, you fail, you say something you wish you hadn't said, you've done something you should have done, you thought something we should have thought, and you're really suffering under guilt and shame and the sense of rejection. Try this. Try to go to this passage, remember this passage, and if you don't remember the passage, that's okay. Just remember this idea. The way, right in the midst of denying with cursing and swearing, and uh having said he would never do such a thing, right in the very midst of the sin. In the midst of the sin, Jesus gave him a look of love and compassion that instantly made Peter know God does not condemn me. God loves me, God has compassion on me. Right. And try to imagine that look in your mind's eye when you're feeling, like you said, like God is distant, like you need to wait a few days for him to crawl for you finally overcome with guilt and shame, saying, No, no, where's the look? Wow. Look for the look.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yes. Look for the look. Look for the look. Right. Wow, can I extrapolate that idea? He's fascinating with the two other people that we've been talking about. The tax collector. Okay. He feels the worst in the presence of the Lord in the temple because he knows he's a sinner. Yes. But he went home vindicated. Can I imagine that when God was looking down, he wasn't looking with anger or judgment? Amen. He looked with love. He looked with love and compassion. Exactly. And Isaiah, when he says, Woe to me because I'm a sinner, is not because he's seen condemnation in the face of God. He's just realizing his own sin. Correct. But probably most likely, definitely for sure, God is looking at him with love. Correct. With compassion. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Yeah, I love that. So if if looks could save, and looks can save. Yes. We say if looks could kill, which is just a saying, but looks can save. Yes. That look of Jesus saved Peter. If just imagine this, do a thought experiment. Imagine in that exact same scenario, Jesus gives Peter a look of total disgust and condemnation, anger, and hatred. Uh-huh. That's it. Peter might have done what Judas did.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Right. Because Judas, Judas couldn't see the look. He was gone. He was out. Right, yeah. So so all he had was the incriminating internal voices, Judas. Yeah. And he couldn't live with himself. Right. But when when Peter meets eyes with Jesus, the look that comes back at him is a look of love, pity, compassion, pardon. Wow. It's incredible. It's incre I love it, bro. Thank you, Jesus. Okay. Amen. Um so then she says, go to the top of page 182, one uh 54 of the original. Okay. The paragraph that begins, when the crowing of the crow in fact, why don't we read that paragraph? When the crowing of the cock reminded him. When the crowing of the cock reminded him of the words of Christ, surprised and shocked at what he had just done, he turned and looked at his master. At that moment, Christ looked at Peter and that grieved look and compassion, in which compassion and love for him were blended. Peter understood himself. Yeah. He went out and wept bitterly. That look of Christ's broke his heart. Peter had come to the turning point, and bitterly did he repent of his sin, which is something Judas did not do. Right. Now watch this. That's right. He was like the publican, the tax collector, in contrition and repentance. And like the tax collector, he found mercy. Now watch this. This is going to become very important for us later. The look of Christ assured him of pardon. This is very important. As you know, we're going to get to a couple. Right. Yeah. In fact, on the very next page, we're going to get to a couple kind of tricky paragraphs. Yeah. Yeah. You even mentioned it when you think last one. Well, there's a couple paragraphs there wasn't a lot of things. Kind of thorny. Right. But but we have to understand what Ellen White's going to say, and the thorny paragraphs are on page 183 and 155, and it begins Peter's fall was not instantaneous. Okay, we're going to get to that.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

We're going to go through it with a fine-toothed cone. Right. But we have to understand that before she ever gets to this, she clearly says that the look of Christ assured. So what's the root word of assured? Assurance? Is that a root? Yeah. Assure. Right. Uh huh. Sure. So if you say to me, if you say, hey David, could you do something, something? Sure. Oh sure. Sure. Absolutely. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Right? Like, or if I say the promise is sure, it means it's definitive, it's definite. It's a yes. It's not like a, oh maybe. Right. So the root word of assurance is sure. It's sure. It's certain. It's steadfast. It's solid. Right. So look at it again. Who? She says the look of Christ assured him of pardon. Uh-huh. Okay. So you need to drive that stake in the ground of your mind, in the soil of your mind. Drive that down right now. Now let's ask a few questions. Uh-huh. Let's ask a few questions. At that point, has Peter repented? At the moment he gets the head of the head. No, no, no. Let's think this through. At the moment he gets the look, he has not yet repented. Right? Who? Okay, at that moment has he confessed his sin. Technically, no. No. He has not yet repented. Right. Has he met with Jesus after the resurrection on the beach and had the conversation about feed my land? No. None of that has happened. So this is the key point. The pardon was in the look. Oh, pardon was in the look. And Peter's response to the look was almost a foregone conclusion because this is key. Remember, Jesus actually said this to Peter. Yeah. He said, he said, Satan desires to sift you like weak. Yeah. And he says, but when you are converted, or some translations, when you turn, strengthen your brother. So this is key. Wow. Jesus could see this self-confident, self-sufficient weakness in Peter. And this is amazing. Jesus saw the Peter on the other side of his denial. That's what he sees. He looks at him. Right. He doesn't see, oh, look at you wallowing in your sin, like a dog knew its vomit, like a pig in the mire. How could you? Jesus knew this was coming all along because you could read the self-sufficiency, the self-confidence of Peter. And so the look communicates, I know this is not who you really are. Whoa, bro. Right? Yes. Because in the look assures him of pardon. Now, the other things are not mere formalities like the repentance, the confession, the meeting on the beach. These are not mere formalities. Yeah. But it all came down to the look.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Uh-huh. That's right. Isn't that amazing? It's amazing, brother. Wow. Jesus is not looking at the snapshot of Peter, at a moment of failure. Exactly. He's looking at a trajectory of his life. You nailed it.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

This is not a snapshot. Oh, you guys. What Kenneth just said is so important. God does not take snapshots of us in our lowest moments and define us. There's two great sins here. There's two great problems. Right. One problem, watch this, is under identifying with our sin. Right. That's what the that's what the Pharisee is under-identifying with his sin. He doesn't even feel like a sinner. Right? Like he he he's fine. Under-identifying with our sin. Right. Um, just yesterday in our parable, Jesus says, if you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children. So so if we underidentify with our sin, this is going to lead us to self-deception. We're going to think we're something that we're not. Right. But what's the other major error? Over-identifying. Over-identifying with ourselves. Wow. Right. And this is for believers. Because even for people that are not yet fully repentant, and I know we sing Psalms like Amazing Grace, How Sweet the Sound that saved a wretch like me. That's true. But it's also true that we are made in the image of God. Yeah. It's also true that God sees potential in us, He sees beauty in us. There are good things in us. Exactly. We're not thoroughly, completely devastatingly evil. We're so evil we need a savior. So we can under-identify with our sin and we can over-identify with our sin. And the mistake that we often make, especially if we have just sinned, fallen, failed, we over-identify with our sin. I want to say to you what Kenneth just said is so awesome. God does not take a Polaroid picture of you in your lowest moment, your worst sin, the stupidest thing you said, did, or thought, and go, This is who you are. Oh no. He takes a picture of what you can be. This is why he said the woman caught on adultery. You don't have to sin anymore. Go and sin no more. That's right. Uh-huh. He saw a future for her that she couldn't see for herself. Let's go. And that's what Jesus sees from the world. Amen. Wow. He and I love your point about a snapshot. Right. That's awesome, dude. Okay, now let's get to these thorny paragraphs. All right, yes. Now I want to read the just before the thorny paragraphs. This is the paragraph that begins. The evil that led. Yep. Okay, so bottom of page 182, 154 of the original, right? The evil that led.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Okay, uh, why don't you read that for us? The evil that led to Peter's fall and that a shot out of the Pharisee from communion with God is proving the ruin of thousands today. There's nothing so offensive to God or so dangerous to the human soul as pride and self-sufficiency. She uses that a lot in self-sufficiency. Of all sins, it is the most hopeless, the most incurable.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Okay. Friends, listen to me very carefully. It is that paragraph that you have to bear in mind as you read. That's what she's thinking about when she gives the two thorny paragraphs drives. So the idea here is that Peter and the Pharisee manifested a similar view of the situation. Right. And that view of the situation and of themselves can be summarized in one word. Self-sufficiency. Self-sufficiency. Okay, now, with that in mind, let's go through the next two paragraphs here very carefully. And you've got some ideas? I do. I've got some ideas too. Uh-huh. Because there's some things that Ellen White says in here, just to put a very fine point on it, that are hard to understand. Right. And if she's saying what it sounds like she's saying, it's it doesn't seem to square with the gospel. Yeah. So I'm going to show you how if we understand what she's saying within the flow of the chapter, and then I might even bring some external sources to bear on this, look up. You're going to see it's actually totally reasonable. Okay. So why don't we just go through it? Fine-tooth comb. All right. In fact, no, I'm going to know what I'm going to do, Kenneth. I'm going to read that whole first paragraph. Okay, whole paragraph through then we'll go through it with a fine-tooth comb. Let's do that. Okay, so Peter's fall was not instantaneous. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence had led him to the belief that he was saved.

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

And step after step was taken in the downward path until he could deny his master. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel this side of heaven that we are secure against temptation. Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be. Taught to say or to feel that they are saved. What? Okay, but stay with me. Watch this. Uh-huh. This is misleading. Everyone should be taught to cherish hope and faith. But even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. Right. God's word declares many shall be purified and made white and refined. Daniel 12 10. Right. Only he who endures the trial will receive the crown of life. Okay, now there's another paragraph that's a little thorny, but let's start with this one. Okay. Okay, now what I want to do, Kenneth, unless you have any like sort of preliminary observations, we're going to go through it with a fine-tooth comb.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Well, before you give you this explanation, I just want to tell you that without the context, this will be something hard for someone to listen to.

SPEAKER_01 44:52

Exactly right. If you lifted up that line there, those who accept the savior, however since their conversion, should never be taught to say or feel that they're saved. If you just lift that out and you're a critic of Ellen White and you're just trying to find a zinger, you lift that out and it sounds totally at odds with the gospel. You have to admit it.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Okay, what were you gonna say? No, that's it. I just want to point out the obvious. That is a harsh saying. It's it's hard to hear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

So now let's read it in the context and see if it's if it if what Ellen White is saying in 1900 when this book was published is how we use the same language and ideas today. Okay, you with me? Let's go through it. Yeah. Peter's fall was not instantaneous. Okay, so so you talked about trajectory. Lazis could see that Peter's general life or life in general was oriented towards self-sufficiency, self-confidence. Right. He could see the downward spot. Right? He knew that at some point Peter's gonna have to come to himself, like the the prodigal son. He's gonna have to have a meeting with himself. And that did happen when he got the look. Right. The look. The look and remember this the look assured him of pardon. He meant to that. You gotta bear that in mind. Assured him of pardon. And the paragraph that we just read a moment ago was the thing that she's pushing back against, listen again, is there is nothing so offensive to God, so dangerous to the human soul, as pride and self-sufficiency. So let's ask this question. Yeah. In a single word, what was Peter's weakness, and what is the attitude that was Peter's weakness that's typified by the Pharisee? Self-sufficiency. Self-sufficiency. I got it. This is key. Okay, so now with that in mind, let's go back to this paragraph. Peter's fall, and I'm gonna say this Peter's fall into self-sufficiency. Okay, right? Was not instantaneous. Uh-huh. But his fall into self-sufficiency was gradual. Gradual. So far, so good. Right, yep. And then she uses a synonym here. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was. Now it says saved. Okay, and I'll just read the last little bit here. And step after step was taken in the downward path until he could deny his master. Uh-huh. Now, a really easy thing to do here is to understand that what she means here by the word saved. This is my opinion. I want to see what you say. What she means by the word saved is not the exact way that we use the word saved today. Like if I say to you, if I say, Kenneth, are you in a saving relationship with Jesus? Yes. Okay, ask me. Are you in a saving relationship with Jesus? Yes, I am. Yes. Okay, how do you know you're in a saving relationship with Jesus? Because you have faith. Right. Your faith in him, you're trusting in him. Yes. Okay. That's not self-sufficiency. That's Christ's sufficient. Amen. Yes. Okay. So Peter is not, or Kenneth is not saying, I am in a saving relationship with Jesus because I'm so awesome. Uh-huh. He's saying, I'm in a saving relationship with Jesus because Jesus is so awesome. Okay. But remember, she's not talking general here about people saying they're saved. She's talking about Peter and Peter's specific weakness, which was self-sufficiency or self-confidence. So watch what happens. And she's talking about the experience, the experience of the night before the crucification. That's what she's referring to. She's talking about a very specific time and situation. Now watch what happens if you just change that word saved to safe. Watch what happens. Watch this. Make a note to yourself. Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was safe. Safe. That's what she means. And you know that's what she means because what is the very paragraph before this? It's about self-sufficiency. Peter thought he was safe. He thought he was better than others. Right. He thought he couldn't. Others might deny you. I will never deny you. So she's not even here talking about are you in a saving relationship with Jesus in the eternal sense? Peter thought he was on safe ground. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

That's what she's saying. Exactly. You with me? Yeah, that's actually, yeah, you're probably gonna have other, but that's exactly what we see in the very next sentence. Exactly. Why don't you read it for us? Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel beside of heaven that we are secure against temptation.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

Okay, exactly. So the word secure there functions exactly like the word safely and saved. Uh-huh. She's using it in exactly the same way. So never can we safely, that's why we have license, we're not just moving words around. Right. She's using these words as as parallels. Right. See, he he uh his confidence led him to the belief that he was saved. And the very next sentence, never can we safely that Peter was not in a saving relationship with Jesus, though he certainly was playing with fire, right? Right, but just I want to remind you this. Right. I'm gonna remind you that when Peter's still in the midst of his sin, in the midst of his fall, dog to the vomit, pig in the mire, the look assured of pardon. Amen. Right. Okay, let's keep reading.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

So so if I can just put up there, this is not um treat on soteriology. No, um, how excited are we being put these words in the interchange that Jesus and Peter are having. Exactly. Jesus tells Peter, hey, watch out. Correct. Satan has asked to save you. He wants to safety like we're and Peter says, No, I'm good. Even though everyone No, no, no, no, no. Satan can might get them. I am safe. But not me, I'm safe. And the point is making we can never be the safe side of heaven secure against temptation. Temptation.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Uh-huh. That's how she's using the word saved. Right. To feel that you are so safe, so saved, so secure, she's using all those words as synonyms, from temptation. In other words, Kenneth cannot say, Oh, yeah, no, I'm fine. Right. I'm fine. I'm definitely on my way to heaven because I got it. Right. That's what Peter was doing. If I say to Kenneth, are you in a saving relationship with Jesus? And you say, Yes, I am. Well, how? How are you in a saving relationship with Jesus? Because I have faith in what he has to offer me. Yeah, we have faith in the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus. Yes. That's uh that's Christ's all-sufficiency, not our self-sufficiency. Okay, let's keep reading. Never can we safely put confidence in self or feel this side of heaven that we are secure against temptation. Safe from temptation.

unknown 51:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Those who accept the savior. Now she's talking about she's coming to us now.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Those who accept the Savior, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are safe. Right. She says safe, but she means safe from the possibility of temptation. That's right. She explains that idea later. She explains that. She exactly explains it. That's why she says this is misleading. In fact, I'll show you something very good in just a second. Everyone should be taught instead to cherish hope and faith. Right. Right? Hope and faith. Okay, let's ask this question. Hope in Faith. Hope in who, though? Hope in who? In Jesus. In Jesus. Faith in Jesus, which is Christ's all-sufficiency, not self-sufficiency. So what she's warning against here is not the way that we often think. And she's writing in 1900. And in 1900, and in her day, this uh very important idea of the assurance of salvation was probably not uh as front and center as it is today. Right. If you read the writings of her contemporaries and the way that she wrote, this this is language that today in the in the Max Luceto and Philip Ryan C world, like it's very important to people to have the fence of the assurance of salvation. Right. That's not what she's addressing here. She's not saying you can never know. Right. I mean, just cross your fingers and hope for the best. Yeah, that's totally not what she's saying. That is not what she's saying. What she's saying here, and look, look at this, this is so great. She says everyone should be taught to cherish. What does cherish mean? To love, to appreciate hope and faith and implication in Jesus. But even when we give ourselves to Christ and know that He accepts us, and this is how you know that this is how we're supposed to understand this, she says, we are not beyond the reach of temptation. Exactly. That's her point. Right. Not that you're not in a saving relationship with Jesus, but that you should never say, I'm so safe, I'm so secure, I'm so rock solid, nothing and no one can tempt me. Oh no, Satan desires to save you as we. Not me, Jesus. Right. Uh-huh. That is what we should never say.

SPEAKER_00 53:14

And that is totally sensible. Exactly. Yes. So you know how she's using the word safe because in the both occasions that she uses in this paragraph, she explains the idea of finalizing saying, We can never be secure against temptation.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Like it's all about saying, no, temptation is nothing for me. Right, right. I mean, David probably thought he was secure from temptation, just to use him as an example. Because we've been talking about Peter, what about David? Until he walks out onto the you know the rooftop and he sees Bathsheba there, and it's like, ooh, right. Ooh, now I'm tempted. Right. Uh-huh. Right? But he would have thought, well, I'm the king. And then there it is. Right. And how many times, I mean, I can, you know, I don't have to speak about a king from thousands of years ago. I can speak about my own experience. Yeah. And I'll be I'll be very honest here, very open and honest. One of the reasons that I am so insistent on traveling with my wife. Okay. I don't know if I've ever said this publicly before. So prepare yourself for some real talk here. Real talk. Um over the course of my ministry, my wife, Violetta and I have traveled together at least 95% of the appointments that I get. I was committed to it early on. And I'm very happy to report since I've been married, I'll just let you know this right now. I have never kissed another woman. I've never had an affair with another woman. And I don't say this out of self-sufficiency. I'm saying I don't give myself the opportunity. Right? It's not that I'm strong, it's that I know I'm weak. So I'm not gonna go traveling by myself. And here's here's what I was gonna say. Here's the point. My wife is beautiful. I think she's beautiful, but I don't think she's the only beautiful woman in the world. I have noticed that there are other women in the world. Right. You might have noticed it too. And I often say to people, look, if there was a button right here, a button right here that I could push an imaginary button, and I push this button, and the only woman that I find attractive is my wife. I would push that button in two seconds. Would you? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

unknown 55:14

Right?

SPEAKER_01 55:14

So, in other words, that's my heart. My heart is to only want to be attracted to my wife. The problem is I have a broken brain, male brain, and I notice that there are beautiful women in the world. That's right. Right? Now they're not my wife, they're not my leave, and I don't I don't want to lust after them because there's a difference between being cognizant of beauty. Right. Because there I can even notice that a man is good looking, even though I'm totally heterosexual. Right. So, so there's a difference between cognizant of beauty and lusting. Okay, these are these are different things. This isn't what that's about. But here's right, here's what I've noticed. This is incredible. Yeah. When I'm around my wife, if we're walking together, or if we're on vacation together, or if we're speaking together, whatever, I barely notice other women. Because you're with her. Because I'm with her. Right. It's not that they're not there, but I don't. And here's an amazing thing. When I have occasionally traveled over the years by myself, the weirdest thing happens to my broken male brain. Oh. I start noticing pretty women. Uh-huh. And I've told my wife this. I'm like, babe, this is not good for me. Because now, to be clear, I'm not getting with these women. I'm not flirting with these women. I'm not sleeping with these, nothing like that. But what's crazy is, as soon as I'm in a hotel and I kind of have a little freedom, and and uh, you know, I could just go out in the town and nobody would recognize me, probably though I do sometimes get recognized, this really crazy thing happens. I start to be like, I feel like this is not safe. Wow. This feels not safe to me. Yeah. Not because I'm strong, right? But because I'm weak. And this is the point. This is the very point here. I don't have to talk about it. Thank you for sharing that. Right? Yeah. I don't have to talk about David seeing Sheba. I can tell you that over the years, when I'm traveling without my wife, I will call her, I'll say, babe, I'm not doing this anymore. Because sometimes it'll it'll just be she wants to go visit her family and I've got a speaking appointment. And as soon as I get in the airplane, some cute girl sits next to me. Right. And if I were Violetta, I probably wouldn't even notice that she's Wow.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Bro, that isn't that wild. Yeah. Can I share something with you? Please, please. And I would have never imagined just telling you this, but I've watched you for years, right? Early on. You watch what I I watched you. Well, you watched me. Okay, got it. I heard you saying at some point, I always travel with my wife when preaching. You said something like that. And that's a policy that I have also acquired. Yes. 95%. Yes. We're going, I'm preaching next week somewhere else. Yeah. And I'm taking my wife. Yeah. Like precisely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Almost everywhere I I'm not gonna list here, but I could list. I could not list on one hand. I would need two hands to list the ministers that I personally know. Some of whom are friends, who wound up in bed with someone other than their spouse. Wow. And do you know when it happened? When they were traveling. That's right. Yeah. I'm not doing that. It's that emotional. I'm not doing that. So back to the point here about Peter and safety. Yeah. If I were to say, oh no, I'm fine. When I know I'm weak. Right. Yeah. Well, I would be on that trajectory. Uh-huh. Right. So, so that's what I don't want to say, oh, I'm safe. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm weak. That's right. I don't trust myself. Not self-sufficiency, but self-doubt. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, now let's read the next paragraph. All right, uh, why don't you read it? Those who accept. Uh the whole thing, the whole paragraph?

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Just yeah, let's read the whole thing in the Willow Threadline. Those who accept Christ and in their first confidence say I am safe are in danger of trusting to themselves. They lose a sight of their own weakness and their constant need of divine strength. They are unprepared for Satan's devices and under temptation, yes, like Peter, fall into the very depths of sin. We are admonished. Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. First Corinthians 1012. Our only safety is in constant distrust of self and dependence on Christ.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Clearly, this paragraph makes the previous paragraph make so much sense. Notice first of all how she uses once again the word saved and the word safety as parallels. Right. Okay. So your point, Ken, is she's not talking here about soterology. Right. How we know that we are in a right relationship with God. No, she's talking about the sense of self-sufficiency. That's strong. And that we are strong. When in fact we're weak. And then she makes the great point there. When we do this, we're in danger of trusting to ourselves. Right. And we are unprepared for Satan's devices. Because Satan knows my weaknesses, he knows your weaknesses, he knows everybody's weaknesses. And under temptation, and there it is again. The idea that she is using here for saved is that you are so safe that temptation, you would be impervious to temptation. It would be like water off a duck's back. And no one should say that. And she says, especially not the new believer. Right. Right? Yeah. Those who accept Christ in their first confidence. And this is like the stony ground here. Like you think about the parable of the sower. The stony ground, the root went down just a little bit and it sprung up quickly. Yeah. But when the sun came, so in other words, those that in their first confidence, this was me. This was me. I never thought of this. But when Pastor Terry Mason sat down with me at you know, seven months, one year a Christian, and he says, You're like Peter, he was right. Yeah. He diagnosed me correctly. Wow. I was self-confident, I was selfish, I was cocky, I was a know it all. Wow. And it was a very good thing that God was. I mean, I definitely had many nights where I would have to repent and for being unkind or being lustful or being whatever. Yeah. But thank the Lord Jesus, I was able to come to him day after day. Right, get on my knees, pray, see the look, look for the look, and then hallelujah, June 6, 1996, I got married. Wow. No, that was the that was the I got baptized. April 4th, 1999, I got married. Wow. And my wife has so insulated me. I mean, dude, marriage is good for everybody, but it's great for men. Yeah. Dude, I'm telling you. My wife, she she's in the other room right now laughing about this. Two things happened yesterday where my wife could have had the biggest I told you so to me. My wife actually, I'm not gonna go into all the details. Violeta actually said something to me yesterday that was very strong. It's not her personality. She said something to me that was very strong and I chafed under it. I chafed under it. I was like, Oh, how can you say such a thing? Uh-huh. She was completely right. I actually went out on a walk by myself to get some fresh air and I texted a few friends of mine, and I said, Hey, I got the situation that uh I'm praying and fasting about. And uh they know about the situation. Wow. And they literally, one of them literally responded, and the first one said, Well, just remember this whatever your wife says, she's right. Wow. Now they said it kind of joking, right? But the Spirit of God pierced my heart because the very thing that Pylona had said to me that I chafed under was exactly correct. Wow. And it's good for me. It's good for me. Like I need not to be too press here, but we need someone in our life that will call us on our BS. Uh-huh. Right. Right? Like it's okay if everybody out there thinks I'm a Christian, right? And when I'm preaching thinks I'm a Christian, and your church thinks you're a Christian. Does your wife think you're a Christian? Oh, right. Right? That's what matters. And my wife was like, hey, you're not showing faith. That's what she said to me. She's like, you need to have faith. Whoa. You're rebellious. Why aren't you having faith?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

I was like, what? How could you?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

Yeah. But she was right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:27

Wow, bro. And I love your story because progression in your story, what it looks like is 20 years ago you were, you said you were cocky, you were know it all. I was Peter, man. Right. Now you're not saying, Oh, I'm stronger. Right. Now I got it. Now you're saying I recognize my weakness. Correct. My wife needs something to shepherd me and guide me. Thank you. That is progress, right? Amen. Realizing your uh need of saving and of the savior. Amen, brother. Okay. So hopefully it was really helpful to go through those. Um can I say you just one last thing towards the end? Our only safety is in constant distrust of self and dependence on Christ. Right. So sadly, a lot of our brothers and sisters in the faith were taught to be uh in emotional distrust. Yeah. It would be a sin. It would be uh to to think too much of yourself. You think that you are safe and secure in the hands of Jesus. You can be safe. You can have emotional safety. Yes. Not trusting in you, trusting in Christ. So the Christian experience, you're gonna talk about that later, is not of doubt of what if, anxiety. Right. Yeah. Uh is he is he really accepting me? No. There's safety in the arms of Christ, and you can be safe. You can't in your own. I'm gonna okay, I'm gonna do something.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:45

I wasn't sure if I was gonna do it, but now I'm gonna do it. Oh. So this is a letter I read years ago. This is a letter that Ellen White wrote. I'm gonna share this with you. It's amazing. Okay, so this is a letter that Ellen White wrote in uh she wrote a number, she wrote many letters. She had a very pastoral presence. She was, she loved people, she would write to people, and she wrote this letter in 1894. So I think she died in 1914 or 1915. So this is toward the end of her life. Yeah. And she wrote a letter to a woman named Lizzie Innes. Lizzie Innes. Now I'm not gonna read you the whole letter, but Lizzie Innes was struggling. Um, let me just read you the opening line, a couple of the opening lines here. She says, I hear that you are being much afflicted, and I am in deep sympathy with you. Since my acquaintance with you, I have felt a tender, loving sympathy toward you. My dear sister, while you are suffering, while infirmities are pressing upon your soul, do not doubt the love of your heavenly father. Satan will try to cloud your mind with the thought that Jesus does not love you. He will try to make you believe that you are unworthy of being acknowledged before the Father as his child, but do not believe his suggestions for a single moment. Amen. I know that the Lord loves you. Wow. And that there will be souls in the kingdom that will be saved. As a result of your unselfish labor. Okay, so she's writing to somebody, and it appears as though, I don't know the whole background, but as I recall, Lizzie Innis was uh she had a number of sicknesses and she felt discouraged, and she felt that these sicknesses were proof that God didn't love her, kind of like the John 9 thing, like you know, why is this guy blind? Because he sinned or his parents sinned. And so she's feeling she's feeling like she's an outcast. She's not sure that she thinks these sicknesses have come upon her because of her sin, because of her okay, now watch this. I'm gonna skip down. Yeah. Are you do you know what I'm gonna read? No, I actually don't you prepare yourself for this. You listen to this. She says here, okay, let me read you this.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Okay. I'm gonna read you two paragraphs. Okay. When Satan comes in with his suggestions, look unto Jesus and say, Who is he who condemns? Amen. It is Christ who died. Yes, rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, also makes intercession for us. Romans chapter 8, verse 34. Only think of this, my sister. Christ is the one who has died for you, who has purchased you with his own precious blood. Amen. Will he permit those whom he values so highly to walk alone? No, he will not. The apostle continues, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation? No. Amen. Jesus bore all this on my behalf when he accepted humanity, and he bore it in order that I might not perish but have everlasting life. He has done all this for will he who has done all this for you be indifferent to you when it is difficult for you to engage in the warfare and fight the good fight of faith? Because she was sick. She thought, oh, this is all happening because I'm I don't have faith and God has cast me off. You are weak. And the trembling hand of faith can scarcely grasp the promises. But can you cannot you now say, Lord, I am now too weak to use the weapons of warfare, but I can rest in you as my only hope. Amen. In you and in you alone, my redeemer, is my only hope of eternal life. You are my refuge. That's paragraph one. Paragraph two is even better. Paragraph two is even better. You get ready for this. Okay, okay. The message from God through me for you. Uh-huh. This is what God told me. Okay, wow. Wow. Okay. God told me to tell you that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out. Amen. If you have nothing John 6 37. Uh-huh. If you have nothing else to plead before God but this one promise from my Lord and Savior, you have the assurance that you will never, never be turned away. Never. It may seem to you that you are hanging upon a single promise. Wow. But appropriate that one promise, and it will open to you the whole treasure house of the riches of the grace of Christ. Cling to that one promise, and you are safe. Safe. Him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out. Elizabeth. Present this assurance to Jesus. And you are as safe as though inside the city of God. Let's go. Come on. Present this one promise to God. And you are as safe as though inside the walls of the new Jerusalem. Don't tell me this woman didn't believe that we could have total confidence in Christ and know that we're saved. Safe. Amen. But what we cannot do is what Peter tried to do. Have self-assurance, self-dependence, self-confidence, and then say, no, I'm safe. I'm fine, I'm fine. That's right. But all we need is a single promise. John 6 33. One promise. You cling to that one promise, you hold on to that one thread. Yes. And it is as though you are just as safe as if you were already inside of the walls of the New Jerusalem. Amen. The same woman that wrote that letter wrote this book. Amen to that. Yes. Have you heard that one before? I know actually. That's such a great letter. It's such a great letter. I'd love to share that with people that are struggling. I'm like, no, no, right. Listen to this letter that she wrote to the struggling sister. Imagine how safe you would feel right now if you were inside the walls of the New Jerusalem. There's nothing here. Okay, people, somebody's asking where it's from. It is um it's manuscript number 813. I'll just put it right here. It's MR, that means manuscript release. Uh 813. So if you look that up, and then what I'll do is I will take some pictures. Awesome. And I'll put this uh up tomorrow as uh I'll put this in my Instagram post. Right. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

That's a new Jerusalem. Amen to that. Yeah, let's believe in that. I listen, I think that speaks to the versatility of her ministry. Oh, the pen limited right? Uh for example, you say that again. That was people needed to hear that. That speaks of the versatility of Ellen White's ministry. I love the use of versatility there. Different people would require different types of messengers. Correct. I mean, look at Paul's ministry. Yeah, exactly. Uh so I think of my children. Um, I have two kids, right? Carla has a very soft conscience. If I were to tell Carla, and she's so sweet. She's incorporated. If I were to tell Carla sweetly, like not in a in a loud voice, Carla, you could have a lot better. She's gonna be deflated. Yeah, you say Carla, you could have you could have done better. Right. She's gonna be, oh man, no, I did something bad. Alex on the other side, the younger, I can tell him stop doing that. He won't care. He doesn't care. Whatever, right. No, he's wild. Right. So to different people, sometimes you need to address in different with different tomes, even. Correct. Right? So she's she's talking about Peter. Like people like Peter, people like the Pharisee.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yes, like the Pharisee. Exactly. So if you're like the Pharisee, then yeah, you should not have assurance of salvation.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

Right, right, right. But people that are that trust in Jesus, that struggle, you know, with a soft, sensible consciousness, they need to bear that burden. Thank you. They can be as safe as already in the city of God. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

And and I love the point that Kenneth made earlier about how many people have religious trauma because statements like these from the paragraphs have been lifted out and thrust upon them. And then this insistence on an external religion, it's actually it actually makes me angry because as somebody who's read thousands of pages of Ellen White's writings, both her published writings and many of her letters, they are perverting the way that she herself. Yes, amen. People do the same thing with Jesus, they do the same thing with Paul, they do the same thing with Moses, so we shouldn't be surprised. Yeah. But this is one of the reasons that I do the with DA challenges is it's like get actual exposure to the thing she says in the larger context. The paragraph, the page, the chapter, the book, the series. Oh, okay, I get it. Yeah. So you can't just go grab that sentence. And this is what many of the people that are totally criminal of Ellen White. By the way, yeah, we've actually mentioned this before, but I'll just say this. If somebody comes to me and says, you know, I don't dig Ellen White, it's I don't I don't like it. I don't read it, I don't like it, it's not for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

I say, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Sure. In the same way that if somebody comes to me and says, you know, I don't like apple pie. I don't like apple pie, I'm not good at apple pie. Oh, I don't want apple pie. I say, okay, then you probably shouldn't eat apple pie. Yeah. Okay. But when people are trying to lift things that she supposedly said, place them in context, right? It really hurts my heart. And I don't feel the need to come to her defense. That's never what with DA is. It's never like, we're gonna prove. To me, the proof is in the writings. Amen. And I've said to numerous people over the years that have had questions, I'm like, look, just read Desire of Ages or Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, or Steps to Christ. Just read that book. Yeah. If it helps, keep reading. If you hate it, read the Bible. Amen. To me, the proof is in the pudding. Yeah. 100%. Love it, bro. Okay, um, we can say so. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, here's what we're gonna do. Oh, okay. I'm gonna give you how much time we got. No, we got a little more time. Okay, so we're gonna press on. We got a little more time. Okay. Um, so we dealt with those kind of thorny paragraphs. Um, then she spends a lot of time just basically talking about how to have how to not live in that space of self-confidence, yeah, self-assurance, how to know that we are sinners, right, how to know that we're redeemed sinners. Um, and maybe I'll put you right on the spot and ask you a tough question in just a second, but I want to show you this. Go to page 187. Okay. This is uh 159 of the original. There's a long paragraph that sends, begins, but we must have a knowledge of ourselves. There it is, right there. Oh. But we must have a knowledge of ourselves. Um bottom of page 186 and 158, it looks like, for those of you that are reading.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

Kenneth, why don't you read this paragraph for us? All right. It says, but we must have a knowledge of ourselves, a knowledge that will result in contrition before we can find pardon and peace. Let's just pause right there.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

Did the Pharisee have a knowledge of himself? A true and accurate knowledge of himself? No. Did Peter have a true and accurate knowledge of himself? Only after. Only after. Yeah. Did the tax collector have an accurate knowledge of himself?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

Yes. Correct. Keep reading. The Pharisee felt no conviction of sin. The Holy Spirit could not work with him. His soul was encased in a self-righteous armor, which the arrows of God, barred unthrough aimed by angels' hands, failed to penetrate. That's incredible. Yeah, that's really good, writing. It is only he who knows himself to be a sinner that Christ can save. Thank you. And I put something here. Are you a sinner? Then Christ can save you. Amen. Do you know you are a sinner? Then Christ can do everything else. Correct. You can do the rest. It starts right there. Yeah. He came to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised. Luke 4.18. But they that are whole need no day. Luke 5.31. Now, this I love this part here. Let me read this part. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

Look at this. I want you to underline all of these. We must know. Underline that three words. We must know our real condition, or we shall not feel our need of Christ's help. Right. Number two, we must understand. Underline it. Three words. We must understand our danger. Or we shall not flee to the refuge. And then third time, three words. We must feel the pain of our wounds, but we should not desire healing. That's very Isaiah there. Yeah. Right. So you've got the we must know. We must understand. We must feel. This is all about knowing who we are and what we are capable of in our sinful nature, in our fallen nature. Did Jesus die to redeem us? Yes. To save us? Yes. To grow us? Yes. To mature us? Yes. And apart from Christ, detached from Christ in a moment or in a trajectory of self-dependence or self-sufficiency, we're we are in trouble. We are liable to tumble off into either self-deception or total despair. We don't want either. I mean, if you think if you the the Pharisees, if you try to live the life of a Pharisee, you've only got two options. Self-deception, you think you're something that you're really not, which is clearly what happened with the Pharisees. Right. And the other option is total despair. When you wake up one day and you think, this has all been a lie. I wasn't righteous. I wasn't, I wasn't what I thought I was. And people will collapse with self-despair. Uh-huh. So we want to walk the thin line, that fine line between self-deception and total despair. And the way to do that is to know the truth about yourself, to know, to understand, and to feel. Amen. And then, unsurprisingly, she goes right to the Laodicean message. Which she's already done back in the Pearl of Bray Price. She goes to the Laodicean message. You think you're wise and in great wisdom and and and you have need of nothing, but really you're poor and wretched and miserable and blind and naked.

unknown 1:18:38

Right?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

So the Laodicean condition is frankly a lack of awareness about their actual status, their condition before God. That's right. Wow. What else you have?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:49

Well, you know, a little bit before that, uh, when he describes the failure of uh Peter, yeah, uh, she actually goes in describing the work of Christ. The work of salvation and his role as an intercessor. Intercessor. Right. That is in page one, let me see, 56. How does that verify this again? Uh it uh right here. Christ offer up his broken body. Christ offered up his broken body. This is 185 in the types and symbols. So it's almost as she's making a contrast. You cannot be self-sufficient, you cannot be confident on yourself. On the other hand, she quotes Hebrews 7.25. Yeah, he's able to say that. Why? The argument of Hebrews 7.25 is because he lives to make intercession, always make intercession for them. Thank you. By his respondents' life, his obedience, his death on the cross of Calvary, Christ intercede for the lost race.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

And now, not as a mere petitioner does the captain of our salvation intercede for us, but as a conqueror claiming victory. His offering is complete, and as our intercessor, he executes his self-appointed work, holding before God the censor containing his own spotless merits and the prayers, confessions, and thanksgiving of people. And she finishes like this The offering of Christ is wholly acceptable. Yeah. 100% acceptable. And pardon covers all transgressions. Dude, that's one of the best. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

Yes. Okay. Are you familiar with this amazing statement? I okay. I can't believe I'm gonna do this. Okay. Are you familiar with this amazing statement on page 344 of another book that Ellen White called First Selected Messages? It's a compilation. Okay, right. Are you are you familiar with this? I I Okay. I'm gonna read it to you because it's a it's a more detailed version of what she just said. Okay? Okay. Okay. I'm gonna read this. This is on uh I'll put it right in here. This is another, I don't often do this, but this is 1 SM, first selected messages, 344. Okay. Okay. I just put it in the chat. God job. Okay, now I'm just gonna read this here. Because it's very much what she said there. Okay, listen carefully. Christ, our mediator, and the Holy Spirit are constantly interceding in man's behalf. Amen. Amen. Wow. But the spirit pleads not for us as does Christ. Right? They they have different roles. Right. Christ, who presents his blood, shed from the foundation of the world. Right. The Spirit works upon our hearts, drawing out prayers and penitence and praise and thanksgiving. Right. Wow. The gratitude which flows from our lips is the result of the Spirit's striking the chords of the soul in holy memories, awakening the music of the heart. So she's simply saying here, it's very simple. She's like, Jesus has a ministry, he died on the cross. He was incarnated, he died on the cross. The spirit also has a ministry. It's to draw out praise, penitence, uh, prayers, and thanksgiving. The Holy Spirit didn't die on the cross. Okay? God, collectively, in a sense, died on the cross, but it was the it was the second person of the Godhead Jesus that literally historically bodily died on the cross. That's right. Okay, now watch this. So then she says this the religious services, the prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin, ascend from true believers as incense to the heavenly sanctuary. So you pray a prayer, you sing a psalm, you preach a sermon, you it now there it is. It's ascending, okay. There it goes. It's ascending to heaven. Uh-huh. Okay. Watch this though. But passing through the corrupt channels of humanity, they are so defiled that unless purified by blood, they can never be of value with God. What? What can never be of value with God? Well, how about this? The prayers, the praise, the penitent confession of sin, and the religious services. What happens? Watch this. This is incredible. They ascend all the good things that we, all the spirit-inspired good works that we do, they ascend not in spotless purity. And unless the intercessor, capital I, Jesus, who is at God's right hand, captures and presents and purifies all by his righteousness, it is not acceptable to God. All incense from earthly tabernacles must be moist with the cleansing drops of the blood of Christ. Jesus holds before the Father the censer of his own merits, in which there is no taint of earthly corruption. He gathers into that censor, Kenneth's prayers, my prayers, praise the confessions of his people, and with these he puts his own spotless righteousness. Then, perfumed with the merits of Christ's sacrifice, the incense comes up before God, entirely acceptable. Then gracious answers are returned. And then this paragraph. Oh, that all may see that everything in obedience, in penitence, in praise, and thanksgiving, all the good stuff, spirit-inspired good stuff, right? Must be placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. The fragrance of this righteousness ascends like a cloud around the mercy seat. Wow. Dude, this woman understood. Yeah. I mean, this is one of the clearest and most beautiful descriptions of how the heavenly sanctuary works. The spirit works on our hearts. Uh-huh. We pray, we sing, we praise, we confess, we assist, we serve. And then all of that goes up. The problem is, is that even the best that we do, it's got some pollutants in it. It's tainted. Uh huh. So Jesus grabs it, as it were, grabs it, uh-huh, and then he mixes with our spirit-inspired works that even then fall short. Right, right. His own spotless righteousness. That is then presented to the Father, placed upon the glowing fire of the righteousness of Christ. Right. And then it is acceptable to him. I love it. It depends completely on Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:52

100%. And that's the more extended version of what she's doing. Yeah, I love it, man. Amazing. Yeah, that's awesome. Wow. The high priestly ministry of Jesus. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:04

Okay. I want to point out that on page 188, she once again, I made this point in night number one or session number one, the phrase infinite grace. And she uses that right in the middle of page 188. So you want to underline that. You want to underline there that we shall see, this is page 159 of the original. We shall see that if we are ever saved, it will not be through our own goodness, but through God's infinite grace. Wow. Amen. And then the last thing I want to sort of highlight, maybe I've got two more at the bottom of page 188. No outward service.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:41

This is page 159. Why don't you read that? No out or servants can take the place of simple faith and entire renunciation of self. Renunciation of self. Right. But Peter and the Pharisee did not do. Yep. At the beginning. But no man can empty himself of self. Right. We can only consent for Christ to accomplish the work. Here we go. Then the language of our soul will be, Lord, take my heart, for I cannot give it. It is thy property. Keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for thee. Save me in spite of myself, my weak and Christ-like self. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere where the rich currently current of thy love can flow through my soul.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:29

That's a prayer that I think everyone could and should memorize. Amen. And you can just pray that prayer every single day. Even surrender is impossible on our own. We can't even surrender on our own. No man can empty himself of self. No woman can empty herself of self. What we say is, Lord, take my heart, can I give it? It is your property. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchrist-like self. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere where the rich current of your love can flow through my soul. That's what we should pray every single day of our life. Exactly. Salvation is from faith to faith. Faith every step of the way. Amen, brother. Um, okay. What else do you got? I've got one more paragraph I want to highlight, and then I can do the rubric. So what's what's on your mind?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:16

What I listed is all the things according to her. She doesn't say that explicitly. We shouldn't doubt, but she affirms all of this. So these are things in this chapter that we shouldn't doubt. Do not doubt. Don't doubt. Okay, let's hear him. Christ's work of salvation. Don't doubt it. Don't doubt Christ's work of salvation. Don't doubt Christ's intercession for you. Don't doubt it. Don't doubt Christ's love for you. Amen. Don't doubt Christ's readiness to forgive when you fail. Don't doubt Christ's support during temptation. Yes. Don't doubt the reality of conversion, because she goes at the end of the chapter. Uh she says, When you come to the cross, there is a new creation. A new creation. Makes that point. There's a new creation. A new heart is given. He becomes a new creature. Don't doubt that you are a new creation. I love it. You don't doubt any of that. There's one thing that you should doubt. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Self. Self. I was going to say doubt yourself. Yeah. So do it again. Don't doubt Christ's work. Christ's work is on Christ's intercession. Love. Christ's readiness to forgive. Christ's support during temptation. And the reality of the conversion experience. The only thing that we should doubt is our own sufficiency.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:30

That's right. I love it. Okay, here's uh the last paragraph I want to read, and it is um kind of similar to what you just did there. It's on page 191, 161 of the original, and it begins in harmony with this experience. In harmony. It's almost at the very end. So it should be page 161. In harmony with this experience. I got you. There it is. Okay, this is so good. All right, are you ready? 191. In harmony with this experience is the command. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for his good pleasure. Philippians 2, 12 and 13. We've already dealt with this. Yeah. There's two different words there: the actual act of working and then the energyho, the way that it is worked out. We've already dealt with it. Now watch this. God does not bid you, the word bid here, command. God does not command you fear that he will fail to fulfill his promise. That his patience will weary, or his compassion will be found wanted. Don't be afraid of that. This is what you should be afraid of. She gives a long list here. Fear, lest your will shall not be held in subjection to Christ's will.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:46

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:46

Lest your hereditary and cultivated traits of character would control your life. Now notice it's not that you fall occasionally here and there, but does it have total control of your life? Uh-huh. It is God who works in you both to will and to do according to his good pleasure. How about this? Fear lest self should interpose between your soul and the great master will. Fear lest self-will shall mar the high purpose that God or that through you God desires to accomplish. Fear to trust to your own strength. Fear to withdraw your hand from the hand of Christ and attempt to walk life's pathway without his abiding presence. Wow. Here's you know what she's saying in this whole paragraph? Write this in the margin. Yeah. Fear self, not God. Oh, I know. That's what she's saying. Yes. She's like, do not be afraid of God. Uh-huh. Be afraid of yourself. Amen. Never mind. I'll tell you something kind of interesting. I spent a lot of time over the years in New Zealand. Okay. And have you ever been to New Zealand? Someday you should go there. Okay. So when I lived in Australia, it was very easy to go over to New Zealand. It's just like a four-hour flight. I've probably been there all ten times. Wow. And in New Zealand, there are no native mammals. Oh, really? Yeah, no native mammals. There are mammals there, possums that have been brought in from Australia and some deer, and uh there's uh some goats that live high in the mountains, and a few seals and sea lions. But I think there's like a species of bat, and then the seals and sea lions. But like land mammals, there's really no native mammals there. So there's no lions, okay, there's no uh uh mountain lions, there's no wolves, no coyotes, no elephants, no gorillas, no tigers, nothing dangerous. Okay. There's also no poisonous snakes. Okay, and there's no poisonous spiders. Cool. Okay, it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Oh so this is what they will often say in New Zealand. If you go to New Zealand, they will, if you go in the backcountry, which I spent a lot of time in the New Zealand backcountry, hiking, climbing, fishing, and this is what they say. When you go in the New Zealand backcountry, the most dangerous thing in the woods is you. The most dangerous thing in the New Zealand backcountry is you. Friends, I want to tell you this. Wow. The most dangerous thing in your walk with Jesus is you. Wow. It's you. Your self-sufficiency, your all of the things she tells you to fear. When you go down that list, that paragraph, uh-huh. What she's saying is, be afraid of yourself, be afraid of yourself, be afraid of yourself, be afraid of yourself, be afraid of yourself. You know what she says, do not be afraid of? Don't be afraid of God. Right. Don't be afraid of his lack of love, his lack of patience, his lack of willingness to forgive you. Those are not the things to be afraid of. The things to be afraid of is yourself. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:30

I love it. Isn't that great? Yeah. God, Jesus wants to save you, Jesus wants to fulfill his promise. Come on. Jesus wants to redeem you. It is only you who can self-sabotage you. Correct? It is only you who can trip you over. Because I don't even say it. There's that uh above in 157. In the whole satanic force, there is no power to overcome one soul who, in simple trust, casts himself on Christ.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:59

In the whole satanic force. Let's just imagine you just remember that one prom that comes to me, I will in no wise cast out. Amen. Yeah. Only you're beating back the powers of Satan with a single

Rubric

SPEAKER_01 1:33:14

verse. Uh-huh. Alright, ladies and gentlemen. Let's do the rubric. Uh-huh. Wow. Let's do the rubric and the word. Kenneth, dude. So fun to have you with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:24

Okay. Thank you, bro. Uh, what was the point? Uh, I need to stop relying in my own righteousness and trust completely in his righteousness. Okay. Very good. For me, the point.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:37

Look to Christ. The look. The look. I love it. Yeah. Look to Christ and his all-sufficiency, not to self and its profound insufficiency. Oh, wow. Yep. The person. Yeah. Here's what I wrote. Jesus can save with a mere look.

unknown 1:34:00

Who?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:01

You know, I love the look. I love the look. Yeah, I look and see. What do you got? Yeah. Person. Uh, Christ will never ever ignore my plea for mercy. Exactly right. Thank you, Jesus. Okay, prayer. What's your prayer? Uh, it's the prayer that she puts in there. Lord, take my heart. No, it's all that the same way. You guys, uh huh.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:21

You should memorize that prayer. On page 188, 159. The prayer is this uh the language of the soul will be, Lord, take my heart, for I cannot give it. It is your proper keep it pure, for I cannot keep it for you. Save me in spite of myself, my weak, unchrist-like self. Let's go, man. Mold me, fashion me, raise me into a pure and holy atmosphere where the rich current of your love can flow through my soul to the world around me. Amen. I love it. Then we had the same prayer.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:54

Okay, uh, how about your practice?

SPEAKER_00 1:34:56

Um, I need to check my heart every time I feel superior to someone.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:01

Oh. Oh, I like that. Check your own heart whenever you're tempted to feel superior to another person. Because we don't know their story, we don't know their situation, we don't know their circumstance. I'm so glad that God is the one that's going to judge an infinitely complex world. Oh yeah. Right? Uh-huh. Like we we can evaluate behavior. We've talked about this. And Paul actually we've actually talked about this when Jennifer was here. We can evaluate behavior. But what we can never do is evaluate the heart. We don't have we don't have access. That's right. Behavior, like if people are, we talked about this when Jennifer was here. People are behaving in a certain way in the church, and those actions are out of out of harmony with their voluntary covenantal will with the church. Right. Sometimes the church can say, hey, listen, this is a voluntary arrangement, right? And you are not abiding by your own voluntary covenant that you made with this body of believers. So we're going to ask you to voluntarily step away. And if you don't voluntarily step away, we're going to vote you out. Now we're not voting you out of friendship or even membership. Right. We're or out of fellowship. Yeah. We're voting you out of membership. Right? Yeah. So so that's not the point. The point is not that we can't discern and say, hey, listen, uh, that was an evil act. Yeah. But what we can't do is get inside of anybody's head and say, this person is rotten. That's Jesus. That's right. And never ever be Oh, I'm better than them. I'm better than them. I got it, and they didn't. My practice was just that everybody should memorize the prayer on page 188. No, that I just that's the it's so practical. Memorize that and pray it every day. Love it. And then the promise.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:39

Um, what don't you have as the promise? Uh my promise is what you just said about uh working out your salvation. I don't need to fear that Christ's promises will fail, or his patience will run out, or his mercy will be exhausted. That is the promise.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:52

Thank you, Jesus. Amen. Here's my promise, page 193. Great as is the shame and degradation through sin. I've had some shame. I've had some degradation, I've had some falls, I've had some fails, a lot. But as great as David's shame and degradation is through sin, even greater will be the honor and exaltation of David through Christ's redeeming love. Where sin abounds, grace abounds much more. Amen. Okay, ladies and gentlemen. This was a great chapter. What was your and by the way, we we could have we could do this whole thing again and talk about all the paragraphs that we didn't talk about. That's right. There was a lot of good. There was a lot going on in there. That's right. Um, okay, let's see. What do we have here? Sarah says, Christ has pledged himself to be our substitute in surety, and he neglects no one. Amen. Okay, let's see. What do we have here? Save me, Lord. Um, okay. My word says BUCA BP is mercy. Mercy. Okay, look. By the way, if you see your word, just okay, right. Uh-huh. I missed a lot of this. I'm going to watch it tomorrow. Let's see. David, could you leave these two live sessions, IG, for a day or two? Pretty please. Yes, they'll be on there. Uh-huh. Self, self. My that's mine. My word. My word is self. Oh. Assured himself, self. Uh-huh. Heart check, fear, or self. Okay. Heart. No, my word is not look, but it could have been. My word is self. That is my word. What? Um dependence. Brent. Oh, Brent Lane. Dependence. Okay. Brent said dear friend. Oh, no. Dependence. Cassandra says intercessor. Uh assured, constant, assurance, nice. Dependence. Yes. Dependence. And other books. A lot of dependence. Dependence. Nice. Unless we realize or realize it's very good. Shun, save. Save. Self. Yes. She uses self in so many interesting and creative ways in this chapter. Shun, substitute, must, says mung bean. As in we must recognise. Recognition. Excellent, Sarah. Out to chat says surrender. Stefan always has great words. Introspection, juxtaposition, and look. Oh nice. Love that. Self-renunciation, incense, look, look, achievement, behold, hide in the rock. Fear, says Victoria. Oh, that's good. Uh-huh. Fear fear. We know what to fear and we know what not to fear. Very good. Contrition. Selflessness. Uh-huh. Yeah, very good. Ruth Brown. And then we've got here fear not. Sarah says consent was my second. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, she uses so many times. And here's a if you didn't notice this, this is interesting. Somebody says clay. Clay. Recognition. Okay. If you didn't notice this, it's quite interesting. Listen to this. I'm going to read you the first sentence of the chapter. And then I'm going to read you the last sentence of the chapter. She often does this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:02

Here's the first sentence of the whole chapter. To some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others, Christ spoke the parable of the Pharisee and the publican. Here's the last one. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. Wow. I mean, you really, that's all you need. Yeah. Right? There's those that exalt themselves, and then she talks all about it, and then she basically says, here's the punchline. And it was Jesus' punchline. You exalt yourself, you're humbled. Right. You humble yourself, you get exalted. And by the way, we didn't mention this, but in this kind of macro christological motif in scripture, in Isaiah 14, we see the fall of Lucifer. He says, I'll go up, I'll go up, I'll go up, I'll go up, I'll go up, I'll go up. And then he eventually is brought down to the lowest steps. Then you go to Philippians 2. Wow. Jesus goes down, he goes down, he goes down, he goes down, he goes down, and then Christ gives him, or God gives him a name that is above everything. All the names. Satan wants to go up, uh huh. He ends up all the way down. Christ is willing to go all the way down, and so he's highly exalted and given a name above everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:06

Does a punchline in pride before you? That's the punchline. Wow. Everyone that excels will be at least. Exactly. Woof. Hey everybody, so great to have Kenneth here now. Kenneth, you're leaving to go uh overseas. Uh yes, I'm going to uh I'm preaching at the university, the Adventist University in Thailand. In Thailand? And you're doing like a week of prayer? Yeah, it's like a Bible camp, something like that. Praise God. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. And is it just you or it's a bunch of people? It's it's just me. It's the family. But I is this who's preaching? But I'm bringing the how many uh presentations are you giving? Uh like four or five? Yeah, three or three, Saturday, Sunday.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:40

And then will you, since you're gonna go all the way over there, will you do a little vacation?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

I'm gonna say a few examples. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're in time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:48

Have you been there before? Uh many years ago. Okay. Many years before. You're not that old, it couldn't have been so we want to pray for you, Kevin, yeah, that's you travel. Yeah. Now you're gonna leave your church for a couple Sabbaths.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:01

Um who are you gonna get to preach in your church?

SPEAKER_00 1:42:04

Oh, well, there's this guy, okay, a friend of mine. Yeah, we got it for you. David Asherick. February 28. Yeah, you need to tune in. Okay, I'll be there.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:13

Um then who's preaching this Sabbath? Uh February 21st. Uh Tim Gillespie. Oh, yeah, yeah. So Tim and then me. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Let's pray. God in heaven, we thank you for your love and mercy, your goodness and kindness. We want to pray a special prayer over Kenneth as he travels to Thailand with his family. Uh Lord, we pray that they have a safe trip, but not just safe in body, but Lord, that they would just be in the center of your will. Amen. And that as Kenneth is preaching and teaching there at the university, that you would anoint his words, that you would bless him, that you would pour out your spirit upon him, and that the students and faculty and others that are there would be deeply blessed through the ministry that he is bringing. Amen. Uh, Father, then, uh, because he's busy and active and he's a pastor, and this work can be very draining, I pray that he gets some time, a week or less, whatever it is, just to be in the sun and to maybe see some beautiful birds, and just to enjoy the delicious food. Amen. And Father, we want to thank you for everybody here on with DA. Lord, it's just so fun to sit down, read through it's sometimes kind of some thorny stuff, Lord, tonight. We but we came through it, we came out the other side, and we had a lot of clarity. And so, Lord, we want to distrust ourselves. Amen. We want to be like the tax collector that says, Lord, have mercy, God have mercy on me a sinner. And Father, we believe, and we claim the promise, that when we have that attitude of self distrust and total trust in the sufficiency of Christ, that we will go to our house vindicated. And it is in Jesus' name that we pray. Amen. Amen.