Christ's Object Lessons - Chapter 25: Talents, Part 1

Pastor David Asscherick is joined by Nathan Renner to discuss the first half of Chapter 25 of Ellen White's Christ's Object Lessons, which examines the parable of the talents. David and Nathan explore Ellen White's commentary on how Christ calls His followers not to idle waiting, but to diligent service and ministry. They unpack Ellen White's concept of perfection—not as flawless performance, but as maturity and growth at every stage of spiritual development. The conversation covers the gifts of the Holy Spirit, natural talents, and mental faculties, emphasizing that God expects returns according to what each person has been given. Drawing from the parable's framework of five, two, and one talent servants, they discuss how believers are called to aim high, cultivate a growth mindset, and turn defeats into victories through curiosity and self-examination, all while serving others in partnership with Christ.

Guest: Nathan Renner
Scripture References: Matthew 25:14-30
Covers: Chapter 25, Part 1
Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WduAVk6IJ8A
Light Bearers

Transcript

Greeting and Announcements

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to With DA, and in this case, NTR. Hey, Nathan T. Renner in the house. Glad to be in your house. I've been telling people that we had uh we've had a number of first-time guests this time around, but uh I've been telling people we're getting a an inveterate guest, somebody who's been with us, because you did DA with DA. Yep. And then you came and did at least one of the OT with DA's. Maybe both. Did you do Prophets and Kings and Patriarchs and Prophets? I think I've come. And then did you do Thoughts on the Mount Blessing? You did Thoughts on the Mount of Blessing, too. I think you've done all of them except Steps to Christ. Okay. And I just realized. Why didn't you invite me to Steps to Christ? I don't know. I'm a bad person. I'll be right back. I just feel as I have to touch something here.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

There we go. Okay, so we are back with none other than Pastor Nathan T. Renner in the house. Uh many of you know that Nathan and I have been dear friends since uh we were teenagers. You were like 16. I was like 19. Yeah. Does that sound about right? Yeah. Both from South Dakota, Western South Dakota. Nathan's from a little town called Spearfish, but also you lived in Deadwood, too. Yeah. Multisyllabic, very earthy names. Deadwood, Spearfish. Oh, I got it. Deadwood, Spearfish. And I was from the big city, Rapid City, South Dakota. And back then it had like 50,000 people or 60,000 people. That place is blown up. It's really blown up. It's big time. So Nathan just flew in today, and it is so awesome to have him. We've had so many amazing guests on the With DA program this year. And Nathan is our final guest that I know of. Now, maybe after Nathan stays for a few days, the Angel Gabriel will make an appearance. I don't know. I don't know who else might show up, but Nathan is our last scheduled guest. And I don't want to say I've saved the best for last, but I've said I can say this. I've saved my best friend for last. Wow, that's sweet. How's that? How's that? Um we've just had so many great guests, Nathan, so do not let us down. I'm gonna do my best. I uh I had a great time reading the chapter this morning. It's a long chapter. 50 pages. It made the flight fly by. Okay, so you flew from Nashville the year today. Yeah. And you read it on the flight. Yep. Okay. And uh we've just made the decision, the executive decision. I made the decision to break it up into two parts. Yeah. Because I mean, trying to do this in a single session, we would be giving short shrift to some really great material. So we're gonna do half well, actually, we'll just kind of go tonight until we maybe an hour, hour and twenty minutes. We will not do the rubric tonight or the word. We'll do that tomorrow night. And then, Nathan, I think you're gonna be with us the following night as well. So you'll do parts one and two, and then you're with us on Wednesday. That's correct. So three nights in a row of Pastor Nathan Renner. Uh Nathan, I picked you up today from the airport at just afternoon. And what did we what was the first thing that we did? Uh besides go to the grocery store? Yeah, we went to the grocery store. What was the second thing we did? We went rock climbing. When you go to a climbing gym. When rock climbing, yeah. That's exactly right. And uh Nathan and I have been climbing together since we were, again, very young. And Nathan has just recently had, if you didn't know this, quite a serious injury. And today, you've climbed now four times since your injury. Yeah. And why don't you just tell us a little bit about that? What happened to you and what's your recovery been like? You had surgery. Give us the update. What's going on? So at the very end of the last Sunday of October, I was uh rock climbing and I was doing a move called a heel look where you just kind of pull with your heel. And uh I had what's called an avulsion of the hamstring. So I tore the hamstring off the bone. And an E or an A? A. Evulsion. And uh Yeah, it it was uh, you know, I mean, it's really a confusing thing. It's like, why did that happen? Uh I tell people it's because I was just so ridiculously strong. Uh you were so strong that you just tore the muscle off of the bone. Yeah. Your muscles are stronger than your bones. Yeah. Or the tendon. Or the tendon. So yeah, it was a bad thing. We were two miles out in the woods, and uh Did it like did it go pop? Yeah, there was an audible pop, and there was instantaneous searing pain, like the worst Charlie horse in the world plus the worst sciatic nerve pain. What was the pain on a scale of one to ten? Fifty. A fifty out of ten. Yeah, it was And it just probably it went from zero to just It was instantaneously the most painful thing I've ever experienced, and I have broken my back once. So you've got a you've got to scale it. Exactly. No, it was it was pure agony. So you're two miles out in the wilderness. How did you get back to your car? Uh you know, I had some friends that were there, and uh basically we had a stick in my right hand and an arm over the shoulder of another person, and I just kind of hopped out with my uh we strapped my injured leg like fully folded at the knee. So like bent all the way. Correct. And strapped it. Strapped it. And then the hamstring would be in the shortest position. In the shortest position. Got it. And then I just put my arm around somebody and just hopped out on one leg for two miles. And uh yeah, it was really an amazing story because there was just a total stranger there out for a hike. And the weird thing is there's no hiking trail there, right? It's uh farming area. And there was this guy named Chris there who was a former Secret Service agent, and he was like the perfect height. And you could put your arm around him. Correct. And he was a CrossFitter, and so he was very strong. Yeah, very strong, very fit. It sounds like an angel almost. Yeah, really. I mean, I have his phone number though, so he's re He's a real person. He's a real person. But he was an angel to you. Yeah. Anyway, yeah. So twelve days later, 12 days later 12 days later, had surgery. Surgery. And what is the surgery? They basically make a little um incision and go find the tent the the go find the muscle, which is like pulled back now. It's retracted, shortened. Yep. Okay. And then they just stretch it out. Drill some holes in your sit bone, and then stretch it, and like how do they they like tie in theirs? They just tie it, yeah. They just uh it's actually pretty wild. I had no idea. So they drill the holes, yeah. And then they put the suture into the hole, and the the the anchor itself, the suture, is made out of the string. So it's like it's like somehow they they then like twist it in. Interesting. Yeah, it's very, very interesting. And you told me it's it has a name? The stitch they use is a stitch called the crakow stitch. The crakow stitch.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

So then from injury to surgery was 12 days. Yep. And that was your injury was I think we looked at it today, and it was exactly 120 days ago, or roughly 120 days ago. And what's the recovery been like? What was it what was the first month like? Was it just insane? Uh at post-surgery, it's uh you know it's interesting. By the day of surgery, as long as I kept my um my leg totally strapped, like like you were kneeling the deepest kneel possible. Okay. As long as I kept my knee in that position, I was basically pain-free. Which completely shortens the correct. But if I was out of that position, it was complete agony. Oh mercy. And um I can't even imagine. But then you know, you have the surgery, and then of course that's painful. And then you are they put you in a brace. And the brace is is horrible. It goes around your waist. Okay, and and it's like a half half a circle, and it's made of plastic on half the circle. So, and you have to wear that thing 24-7 for six weeks. Oh, and you cannot straighten your leg, you cannot bend your leg. It's just like a very limited range of motion. Very uncomfortable. Oh, well, like try imagine trying to sleep. I I was just thinking, laugh, how do you sleep? You just sleep on this plastic lump on your back.

unknown 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

It sounds like the the the cure is uh almost as bad as well. I mean, the long-term outcome of the surgery is positive. Very positive. And so Okay, so here we are 120 days later. So I can you're you're basically normal, right? I mean, yeah. Uh so I was in the brace for six weeks. Okay. Got out of the brace, took me about a week and a half, two weeks to learn to walk. Wow. And then uh and then since uh yeah, that two-week period, I've been pretty much normal. Like as far as day-to-day activity goes, right? Like So you can walk, can walk, I can go up two stairs at a time if I want. Um, I've not really been running or jumping, nothing not much. Um, but you know, I'll just keep doing PT and get better at all those things. So And you're rock climbing. But A we rock climbed and you climbed extremely well and you were strong. So I've gone rock climbing f four times now. Um and you know, I'm just very, very cautious um in in the climbing. And yeah, it's have you learned anything? How about that, Nathan? Like you've this is your first series. I'll tell you I did a I did a um What have you learned? Climbing was totally fine, by the way. But I had to be careful. So the thing I learned, I preached four completely, I mean, I I see this in the most humble way possible. I preached four completely awesome sermons, super meaningful sermons, at least they were meaningful to me over the Christmas season. Um basically uh my first week preaching, I did a sermon on vulnerability. Okay. Um, so so the idea of the sermon series, this is during Christmas season, was that um God became physically vulnerable in a way that was impossible for him to be vulnerable before that. God was emotionally vulnerable when he created humanity. Right. He could be right, right, but he became vulnerable. Yeah, totally. So um, and so because God is love, he became vulnerable, and he became vulnerable because he was humble. And uh Wow, that sounds like a great series. So there's a sermon on humility, vulnerability, um, and then empathy. And so love, vulnerability, humility, empathy. And do you feel like I think you even said to me that after this happened, you know, when you were kind of in the middle of it still weeks afterward, you were like, I'm learning so much about how to minister better to people that have ailments. Because up to that point, you're a healthy guy. You're strong, you're fit, you're climbing. It's interesting. There's a lot of things that you know, the New Testament over and over again talks about learning through suffering, right? Right. Right. And it's true. And I think um, you know, it's weird to say it because I mean I'm still not normal as far as my physical health is concerned. Um, but it it's kind of been a blessing. Really? Yeah, yeah. I mean I've learned from it. Yeah. I feel like I'm a quieter person, not in a bad way. Um, I feel like um it's kind of slowed my life down in in a good way. In a good way. In fact, it's weird. I thought to myself, because I've you know Are you 50 yet? Not quite. No, you're 49? 40. Yeah, I turned 50 April 1st. Yeah, I know your birthday's April 1st. I didn't know if you were already 50 or you're journeying. I'm turning 50. Okay. But you know, it's like it's kind of weird how you how when things are taken out of your life that you you end up filling your life with different things. And then it's like anyway, it's been a very good experience. A very I mean, it's been painful, it's been uncomfortable. Sitting is still not great, like the air f the airplane right here. I was like, oh, this kind of bummer. No, I got it. But uh, because they the you know the incision is they have to have access to the sit bone. So it's right where you sit. Correct. And when will you be at you know, as close to 100% as you will be? Is that a year out? Yeah. So it's funny because I told the doctor occasionally, like, for example, I get uh a little numbness in my foot still, and different things, you know, there's still different problems. I told the doctor, I was like, look, if this is all the better I got, I would be totally happy. Wow. But he kind of spirit of contentment. And then he looked at me and he was like, Yeah, this is not all the better you're gonna get. You're gonna continue to get better for six months to a year. So, like when you were climbing today, there was a couple times where you would do a particular move and you would say, Oh, I there's an awareness there. You can tell something's not a hundred. Well, and I frequently just climb differently. I noticed that today because I've climbed with Nathan for decades, and I noticed today that you did several things to just keep the margin around your right leg. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, very smart. So normally, like I would put my right foot really high. Well, it's like oh I'm gonna tick-tac- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're kind of dancing up the wall. Well, we are so glad to have Nathan here. Thank you for sharing that with us. Thank you. Now, just quickly, am I mistaken? Is it after you were injured and had the surgery, did you preach the next weekend? Um I took a How many weeks did you take off of preaching? That's quite a few. Oh, so yeah. Like a month? Uh I can't. Because I have it in my mind that you are the kind of person that would be like, no, I've I've got to preach. I've got something to say. I've been studying. I honestly I can't remember, to be honest. I think I took four weeks. Four or five weeks off. Okay, good for you. Because that's not your But I mean, I like preach for several weeks in crutches. I saw that. I saw it. Which is pretty wild. Yeah, standing in crutches, preaching. Yeah. Okay. You know, I had a I had an aunt who had cerebral palsy. Yeah. And so we were always kind of raised with an awareness of of disability and things like that at the end. But man, I thought to myself, you know, it's like you have this brace on, right? So like you get out of bed, and even like showering, you gotta like get in the shower with the brace on, you gotta take the brace off, then you gotta shower, then you gotta put the brace on to get back to the bed. Right. And then you gotta you gotta take the brace off to get dressed, and then you gotta put the brace back on. So it's like uh one, two, three, four, right, right. Taking the thing on and off. And I just thought, man, just living life for some people is so ridiculous. Hard. Hard it just takes so much time. And one of the one of the talents that we're gonna talk about tonight. Well, I don't know if we'll get that far, but she talks about health. And I think the first thing she says is that health is something that people take for granted. I'm gonna just grab it here. I think it's literally the health is a blessing of which few appreciate the value. It's like they say that health is like freedom. You don't really think about it until it's taken away. How do we not underline that one? I don't know. Maybe I did. Maybe you did. Um, so Nathan, we are super glad that you're here. We're super glad that you are on the road to recovery. And we are in chapter Matthew chapter 25 tonight. We're doing part one of the talents. And in our secondary textbook, Christ's Object Lessons, written by Ellen White, published in 1900. Uh, we're in chapter 25. Well, that's convenient. Matthew 25, chapter 25, the parable of the talents, or as uh the NIV says, the parable of the bags of gold. There you go. We'll get to in just a little bit. So welcome, Nathan. We're super glad you're here. Thank you for sharing your testimony with us. Thank you. And we're glad that you're well. And we're gonna have Nathan pray, and then I'm gonna ask him a couple questions about the chapter. Okay. And then we're gonna we're gonna motor through this. Sound good? Sounds awesome. Okay, why don't you pray for us?

Prayer

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Okay. Father, thank you for the privilege of being here with David. Thank you for the privilege of being with all the people who are now watching online and those who will watch over the coming years. Father, as we uh open your word, we thank you for the promise that you are present when two are gathering today. Amen. And so we are um just acknowledging your presence and eager for more of it every day. As we read now your uh your word, we pray you'd speak to us, and we uh ask for the inspiration of your spirit. Everything in Jesus' name. Amen.

Discussion

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Amen. Beautiful. Um okay. So let's start by reading the talents, Nathan. You've got the NIV there. And why don't you just start in verse 14 and read down and let's give it a listen, and then I'll read it in NT Wright's Kingdom New Testament. Again, it will be like a man going on a journey who collected his servants and entrusted his wealth to them. To one he gave five bags of gold, to another, two bags, and to another one bag, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received five bags of gold went at once and put his money to work and gained five bags more. So also the one with two bags of gold gained two more. But the man who had received one bag went off, dug a hole in the ground, and hid his master's money. After a long time, the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received five bags of gold brought the other five. Master he said, You entrusted me with five bags of gold? See, I have gained five more. His master replied, Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful with a few things. I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness. The man with two bags of gold also came. Master, he said, You entrusted me with two bags of gold. See, I have gained two more. His master replied, Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness. Then the man, who had received one bag of gold, came. Master, he said, I knew you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See here is what belongs to you. His master replied, You wicked lazy servant, so you knew that I harvested where I have not sown, and gathered where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags, for whoever has will be given more. And they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have, will be taken from them, and throw that worthless servant outside into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. What a story. Yeah, what it's it's really emotionally charged. It is, especially at the end there. Okay, let's read it in right's translation. Uh, this is what it will be like, Jesus went on. It will be like a man who was going off on a journey. He summoned his slaves and handed over control of his property to them. He gave five talents to the first, two to the next, and one to the last, each according to his ability. Then he left. Straight away the man who had been given the five talents went out and traded with them and made five more. Similarly, the one who had received two talents went and made another two. But the one who received a single talent went and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. After a long time, the master of those slaves came back and settled accounts with them. The man who had received five talents came forward and gave him the other five talents. Mastery said, You gave me five talents, look, I've made another five. Well done indeed, said his master, you're an excellent slave, and loyal too. You've been trustworthy with small things, and I'm going to put you in charge of bigger ones. Come and join your master's celebration. Then the mas then the man who'd had two talents came forward. Mastery said, You gave me two talents, look, I've made another two. Well done indeed, said his master. You're an excellent slave and loyal too. You've been trustworthy with small things, and now I'm going to put you in charge of bigger ones. Come and join your master's celebration. Then the man who'd had the one talent came forward. Mastery said, I know that you are a hard man. You reap where you didn't sow, and you profit from things you never invested in. So I was scared. I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here it is, it's yours. You can have it back. You're a wicked and lazy slave, answered his master. So you knew that I reap where I didn't sow and profit from investments I never made, then you should have put my money with the bankers. When I returned, I would have received it back and would have had interest. So take the talent from him, he went on, and give it to the man who has ten talents. If somebody already has something you see, they will be given more, and they'll have plenty. But if someone has nothing, even what they have will be taken away from them. But as for this useless slave, throw him outside in the dark where people weep and grind their teeth. Okay, again, uh in both translations it's emotionally charged. You get the sense here that the you know, first of all, we need to set the kind of biblical context here. Jesus is telling a number of parables, the ten virgins, then the parable, this is all in Matthew 25, then the parable of the talus, and then the parable of the sheep and goats. And all of these are in Matthew chapter 25. Literally, one chapter before Jesus will be arrested, two chapters before he will be crucified, and three chapters before Matthew chapter 28, he'll be raised. So the the point I've been making, Nathan, is that that Jesus is, as it were, turning up the volume, turning up the intensity. He knows he's at the end. And the parables are not now merely the kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed or like yeast, but these are pointed, unmistakable parables that are often targeted at the religious leaders themselves, like the parable of the tenants we just did a couple days ago. So the overall context here is Jesus is speaking with passion, he's speaking with urgency. And these parables are they they're straightforward, they're honest and earnest, and we need to hear them in that context. And then we need to go, okay, what did it mean then, but what does it mean now? And before we get into Ellen White's exposition of the parable, let me ask you this question, Nathan. You read the chapter, uh, chapter 25. Yeah. And you've we've just read the parable. When you read, for example, Christ's Object Lessons, chapter 25, it's huge. Yeah. It's a lot of moral exhortation, right? Like how to be better, how to do better, how to think better. Yeah, yeah. Striving for excellence. She uses the word perfect or perfection a lot. When you read it, just sort of psychologically, emotionally, theologically, however you want to come at this, uh do you find it encouraging? Do you find it uh discouraging? Do you find it um like difficult to read? What's your sense about the chapter uh now that you've read it? You're good, we're gonna talk about it. But I just want to get the airplane overview. It's an interesting question. I I feel like there's a certain allergy to exhortation in modern Christianity. Okay. And the, you know, it's almost as if there's a certain brand of Christianity that focuses so exclusively on grace and forgiveness that the challenge of discipleship almost sounds like legalism. Interesting. And that's such a great point. And the way that Ellen White says it um in my version on page two uh uh 326, paragraph three, by living to minister for others, man is brought into connection with Christ. The law of service becomes the connecting link which binds us to God and our fellow men. I feel like there's a lot of um spiritual growth advice that's like pray, study the Bible, fast, keep the Sabbath, all of those things are great, important elements of discipleship. Yeah, love it. But one of the most repeated tools of discipleship is to imitate Christ. Yeah. Right? Like what does Paul talk about in Philippians 3, right? Like, like it's it's coming into fellowship with Christ, living in the way of the cross, serving others. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is how this is how we know Christ. We don't know Christ. I mean, we do, but it's not, we don't know Christ sitting in a room by ourselves studying as much as giving ourselves in the service of others. And if we are sitting in a room studying, we should be continually thinking, how can I a teach this or b practice this so that I can be a blessing to those around me? It's not just study for study's sake. Correct. And so if you kind of I don't know, if you if you come to a text like this and you're in and you are in a secure relationship with Christ. Well, okay, if you understand if you understand that well, if you understand exactly the opposite of what the one talent guy understood, right? Like what does he say? He's like, um, you know, uh I knew you to be a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown, gathering where you have not scattered seed. Right. So I was afraid. Well, look, that's not the way God is. Right. That's not who God is. God is generous, he is compassionate. If you understand that, then when you come to a chapter like this, you're not just the anxiety. Yeah, there's not anxiety. Yeah. We've already noted that that there are several parables that Jesus told where the parable is a parable of what we have used the language of a parable of contrast more than a parable of comparison or consonants. Right? Like so the man that's unwilling to get out of bed in the middle of the night, or that the unjust judge that doesn't fear God or regard man. You know, Jesus is not saying God is like this, and neither is God like this. Correct. A stern man that treats people unfairly and has unreasonable expectations. But Jesus uses these points of contrast to say, look, even in these situations, people know the right thing to do. So how much more if God is good and kind and loving and gracious and forgiving and God is love, will we then want to behave in the ways that he encourages us and exhorts us to? Because if if the slave can get it for his harsh master, why can't we get it for our loving Lord? Exactly. Yeah, 100%. I love, love, love your point that that we often that that this is a that there's an allergy almost in some modern, you know, some variations of modern Christianity to exhortation, to excellence, to striving. And people will think, oh, this sounds this sounds like lethalism. But the point that we've made before, and I'll just make it here again quickly, is that grace is not opposed to effort. Yeah. Grace is opposed to earning. Correct. And there's a big difference. Correct. You know, and and and here's the thing. If you enjoy physical training, like, you know, well, I enjoy rock climbing, you enjoy rock climbing. And we train to be strong for rock climbing. Correct. And that sense of progression actually brings joy. Totally. It's it's it's it's growth that makes life pleasurable. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, yeah. It's one of the reasons that I loved I was into running, as you know, for years and the better part of a decade. And then I got really into cycling when I was in Australia for like seven years. And one of the things I really liked about running and cycling, um, I still climbed through that, but one of the things I really enjoyed was you could see progress. Yeah. You could measure, oh, the last time I did this ride, I did it in this amount of time. The last time I went up this hill, it took me this long. Now I do it in this time. Wow, this is amazing. So you could sort of chart, and I'm a goal-oriented person. I like goals, I like to see progress. And we do the same thing in rock climbing. Climbing has grades. You have very easy 5'7, 5'8, 5'9. Then you get a little more difficult, 5'10, 5'11. That's kind of intermediate. Then you get into harder climbing, 5'12, 5'13. Then you get into elite climbing, 5'14 and above. And it's really great to know kind of where you are and to gauge yourself, not only from your peers, but from the grades themselves. And one of the things that comes up, and I can't wait to talk to you about this, Nathan, in this chapter is her repeated use of the word perfect or perfection. And I just looked it up because I was curious. I counted 19 times that she uses it. I checked it, and that is, it's 19 times, and it's far more than she uses it in any other chapter in Christ's object lessons. Now, a part of that's going to be a function of this is a longer chapter. But the point is, she goes to it over and over and over again. And we don't have to get into it right now, but I want to talk about that as it comes up. You feel me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so let's go to just let's go to paragraph one. Okay. Let's go right to the beginning and um I'll read here the first paragraph. Christ on the Mount of Olives had spoken to his disciples of his second advent to the world. He had specified certain signs that were to show when his coming was near, and had bidden his disciples to watch and be ready. Again, he repeated the warning: watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming. Then he showed what it means to watch for his coming. The time is to be spent not in idle waiting, but in diligent working. This lesson he taught in the parable of the talents. And then she quotes the talents. So, as Ellen White often does in this book, and those of us that have been on this journey, she'll use that first paragraph or sometimes two to make the point she's going to make. And here she's saying, what does it mean to be ready? What does it mean to watch? What does it mean to be aware? Well, it's not sitting idly, sitting idly by, twiddling the thumbs, you know, with your eyes on the sky. It's, I love your language, it's living the life of Christ, identifying with Christ. It's, as she says here, diligent working, service, ministry, helpfulness to others. Right? And you're in pastoral ministry, this is what you do. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. There's a sort of like a pathological watchfulness. Right? Like where people they they're obsessed with every disaster that happens. They're obsessed with every bit of suffering. And it's like, it's like, do we really think that God is waiting for the world to just get a little bit worse? Get worse, right? Right. Like, no, it's like, what does God want? He wants the church to to co-labor with him. That's what God to live into the fully to live into the vocation, spirit-filled vocation. I agree. I totally agree. I love that word vocation, by the way. I think that's such a great one. These are the right one. Okay, so then she actually quotes the parable a little bit, and then we get the third paragraph, Nathan. Can you read that? The man traveling into a far country. The man traveling into a far country represents Christ, who, when speaking this parable, was soon to depart from this earth to heaven. The bondservants or slaves of the parable represent the followers of Christ. We are not our own. We have been bought with a price, not with corruptible things as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them and rose again. Okay. So that's the theosis, is the fancy word that the theologians use. Okay. Theosis. Explain that to us. It's becoming like God. Okay. Right? Like that's the Christian life, becoming like God. And God is humble and God is a servant. God is kind. And when we we're going to need, and I love your point, that we're going to need other people around us. You can't just do this, you know, lopped away in your ivory tower studying by yourself. You're not going to find many opportunities to be humble or to be of service to others. And that's what Jesus did. Jesus could have remained sequestered away in heaven, but he came here to serve, to love, to minister, to heal. And now we call ourselves Christians, followers of the Messiah. And that needs to form a large part of what it is that we're doing on earth. Yeah. We're living out the life of Christ. Theosis. You know what's funny? Um funny is not the right word. Okay. Yeah. Super meaningful list. This summer we did an evangelistic meeting at our church. Okay. Um, but instead of sending flyers, we didn't send out a single flyer. We did what are called compassion giveaways. Compassion giveaways. So we basically took out a Facebook ad that said, uh, come to our church, we'll feed you dinner, you'll listen to a sermon, and then we'll give you a $50 gift card. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And we like it. Tons of people come. And um it was super fun. Uh the people Did you do the preaching? I did the preaching. Okay, love it. Um and I preached, we did the meeting. It was like a week-long meeting. And um, you know, that was in August. A couple weeks ago, I looked out and I just saw a bunch of people from the meeting there, and I counted, and I was like, you know, we still have 11 people at church almost every Sabbath from that evangelistic meeting. Love it. And, you know, people think, well, are you just gonna get a bunch of people that are there for the bread, like Jesus in the Bible? Right. And the thing is, they never even once asked me for anything.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Got it. So it's it's like when the church put itself out there just to say, we're gonna love people, we're gonna bless people, we're gonna serve people. I love it. I love it. Um and you know, you've like, and and what they it was tons of single moms, and what they said to me was I literally had a mother say, It's like you read our mind. It's like you knew exactly what we needed, particularly as it's back to school time. Wow. Thank you. Anyway, it's kind of that's just that's the church standing in to the gap into the spot in that local community that was needed. Right. But it's that it's that you just sta, you know, it's like, and the thing is it didn't cost us any more than sending out flyers. Right. Right. So it's not like it even cost us any money. We're gonna spend fifteen thousand dollars sending out pieces of paper that are gonna fill a landfill. Right. Or we just take out, you know, $1,000 worth of Facebook ads and then give away $14,000 worth of free free gift cards just to see. I love it. Anyway, it's that's that's such a good you finish what you're gonna say. It's just that coming into fellowship with Christ in a practical way. So practical. And that is such a great segue into the next paragraph because her point in the next paragraph is everybody belongs to Jesus. Oh, I love that. Everybody belongs to Jesus. That is so beautiful. Right, so let's go through this. Is one of the best paragraphs in the whole chapter, and it's a long, long chapter. It's gonna take us two sessions to get through it. But I love this here. All, and you want to underline these, all underline it. All men have been bought with this infinite price. By pouring the whole treasury of heaven into this world, by giving us in Christ all heaven, God has purchased the will, the affections, the mind, the soul of every, underline it, of every human being. And I love this point. Whether believers or unbelievers, all underline it. All men are the Lord's property. That's so great. All are called to do service for him, and for the manner in which they have met this claim, all will be required to render an account at the Great Judgment Day. Well, which is exactly what the next parable is, the sheep and the goats, right? Yeah, exactly right. The sheep and the goats is the next parable, and it's the point about giving an account. So, so I just love this idea. To me, I find it so consoling and so comforting and so beautiful that Ellen White here makes the point, and it's such a profoundly true theological point. Everything belongs to God. We say, well, the silver belongs to God, the gold belongs to God, the hills belong to God, the stars belong to God. Every person, even if they are rebellious, they are rebellious with a will and with a voice and with an attitude and a brain that is a gift from God. Like every person belongs to God, and God therefore has some rightful claim on every person. Now, God is gracious and generous, and he's a gentleman, and he gives people over to their rejection of him if they insist on that rejection. But I just love the idea that even the most incorrigible, rebellious sinner, God says, You're still mine. You didn't create that body, you didn't bring your yourself into this world, you didn't give yourself life. At some level, you are mine, and an infinite price was paid for every single person. I love you you probably heard Lewis's great point where he says that God not only died for every man, but for each man.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

I love that. For each man.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

And I just love, love, love that. Read the next paragraph for us, Nathan, if you would. But the claims of God are not recognized by all. It is those who profess to have accepted Christ's service who in the parable are represented as his own servant. And that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense, right? Like there are those that have said, I'm a follower of Jesus, I am a follower in this case, you know, the religious leaders, we follow Yahweh, we are descendants of Abraham. Okay. Okay, and if you take that name, then there are certain um requirements and stipulations that go along with that name. Go. Yeah, or even more precisely, yeah, there's a mission. Yeah, exactly. Right, like the this is the thing as I've thought about it over the years. It's like so often we think like, oh, the church, those are the people of God. Those are the people God loves. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Those are the people that are on the mission. Those are the people who have stepped into the vocation. Thank you. Those are the people that have the call to make him known to those who don't yet know him. Yeah, that's such a great point. It's not like, oh, God loves the church more than everybody else. It's like, no, the church are the ones participating in the mission of Christ. Going therefore and do all nations, baptize, make disciples, teach, serve, heal, bless. The church is on mission. Yeah, and you know what I liked about this chapter, and I know we're kind of breaking it through piece by piece, but what I liked about it is, yeah, I read this book many years ago called Nurture Shock. And in the book, Nurture Shock? Yeah. Oh, that's about it. It's kind of like a sociological book, parenting book. But one of the things that they they they bring out is that you really shouldn't tell your kids they're smart. Right? Because if you say to your kid, well, you're smart, and they get an A on their math test, they're like, Yeah, that's because I'm smart. But then if they get a C in a class, then it's like, well, that's actually because I'm dumb. And what they said is that instead of complimenting your kids for their intelligence, you should compliment them for their work. And that so, like, hey, you must be doing a lot of study in here. Well done. And and you know, the idea is that you want to cultivate a growth mindset. Yes. And I think yes, yes. That's a element of the Christian worldview that is not in vogue. Again, there's this sort of allergy to this exhortation, this allergy to growth. Yeah. And I love that mindset, I actually think is the thing that has made the world the way it is. Yeah. Right? Like the surgery I had, it wasn't invented until 1989. Whoa. The specific, uh, the specific way that they do that they never repaired a hamstring before 1989.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

What?

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yeah. What do they do? What do they what if you had this injury in 1985? You'd just be disabled. No way. But thank God you live in 2025. No doubt. No doubt. And but the thing is, is that somebody had a growth mindset. Somebody was not, you know. Somebody wasn't satisfied with people tearing their hamstring and limping around. Correct. They're like, well, hey, let's give this a try. Let's try to do something. We we fix an Achilles. This is just the other end of the leg. I love that. Anyway, and it's that way. It should be that way in every part. And it's like if every single person, whether she she talks about builders, she talks about cooks. Yeah. It's like if every single person was like, you know what? I just want to be a force for good in the world for God. I want to be a force for good and for God. And I'm just going to just grow. I'm going to just grow. I'm going to get better and better at building. Yeah. I'm going to be a great builder. And then when people are like, wow, you're a great builder, you're going to say something like, To God be the glory. And they're going to say, That's right. What do you mean to God be the glory? And you're going to say, Well, everything I do, I do for Jesus. And he made everything in the beginning very good. And I want to try as best as I can to emulate his creating things very good because I'm a follower of his. Oh, tell me more. Right? Like we're we're doing things in the world that are not always expressly religious, but everything is expressly religious correctly understood. That is so that is such an important point. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Okay. Such good stuff here. All right. So I'm going to keep reading here. Okay. Christ's followers have been redeemed for service. Our Lord teaches that the true object of life is ministry. Well, there you have. I mean, we could just close the book and say, there it is. The true object of life is ministry. And then she goes on, she has a great sec uh section here where she talks about the law of service. This the next paragraph is about service, living for others, ministering for others. She calls it the law of service. And then I'm going to read the last paragraph there. Why don't you read it? To his servants just before the break. And to his servants, Christ commits his goods, something to be put to use for him. He gives to every man his work. Each has his place in the eternal plan of heaven. Each is to work in cooperation with Christ for the salvation of souls. I love it. Not merely, and excuse me, not more surely is the place prepared for us in the heavenly mansion than is the special place designated on earth where we are to work for God. I love it. Yes. So there's a place for us in heaven. Amen. And you know, we're believers. We are looking forward to a longing for eternal life. But her point is just as certainly as there is a place for us in heaven, there's a place for us in the here and now. And that place is in the very niche, the very spot that Jesus Himself would occupy were He here.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Ministry, helpfulness, smiles, hospitality, kindness, I mean uh building, we mentioned that that Jesus occupied these places in society, blessing people, helping people, talking about the love of his father, and we can occupy those same spots. Then what she does is, and does yours have the subheadings? No, no, like you go. Yeah, where's the next subheading? Uh that's on the next page. Oh, yeah, got it. Yes, I'm not sure. So as I count it here, I count ten areas. I just went through and I just I wanted to make sure I had them all. So I've got ten areas here. You've got are you counting them? What do you got? Well, she's got gifts of the Holy Spirit, talents, mental faculties, four, influence, five, time, six, health, seven, strength, eight, money, nine, kindly impulses and affections. Which I love. Talents. Yes. Yeah, but then other words, these are the areas. Yep. The these are the areas that she then specifically spends time on and itemizes. And let's get through at least three of these. Okay. Right? If we can, three or four. So gifts of the Holy Spirit, and then other talents, by which she kind of means like your natural abilities, mental faculties, speech, influence, time, health, strength, money. These are uh money and then kindly impulses and affections. These are things that are committed to us and to varying degrees. You know, you you have some of one thing and less of another than me, and I have something more than you, and we're not all the same. You know, that's the point of the parable, right? Yeah. 521, not everybody gets exactly the same. I mean, we've all met a super talented, super brilliant person. Well, good, good for them. That's great. Yeah. Go ahead. Which is uh kind of an interesting thing when you think about the word, the the use of the word perfect so frequently. Oh, I can't wait to talk about that. But go ahead. Well, it's just it's just like, well, if perfection is this sort of static thing to which a person might attain, right? Then how does that work when there is relativity built into the parable itself? Correct. Exactly correct. So you've got the one, you've got the two, you've got the five. The five is expected to be perfect in bringing a return on five. Two should be perfect in bringing a return on two. The two is not expected to bring five. Correct. And the one is not expected to bring five, and the five is not expect expected to bring one. Okay, great point. Now let's talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit. That's the first thing that she does, and maybe just a bit of an overview here. Uh, there are four, three, excuse me, three lists of the gifts of the Spirit in the New Testament. Ephesians 4, Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12. You can go look at those on your own time. She quotes in here from Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12. I don't think she quotes from Romans 12 here, but that's where the third list of the gifts of the Spirit is. And the idea here is, and you can pull out anything that you want to, Nathan, but just that at Pentecost, I actually preached on this just two days ago, at Pentecost, the Spirit was poured out, as she says, in its fullness, right? But not until after the ascension was the gift received in its fullness. And the idea here is that for the furthering of the kingdom, for the advancement of the church, God has given certain capacities, capabilities, and in some cases, supernatural gifts, like the gift of tongues on the day of Pentecost, so that we can have a growth mindset. The church is moving, it's advancing, it's growing. Christ is reclaiming territory from Satan, and the church is to take these gifts, like he might almost take, you know, weapons from an armory and go and advance, not a physical warfare or a military warfare, but a spiritual warfare on the kingdom of darkness. Right? I like this sort of imagery here, and you know, you have spiritual gifts, Nathan. I have spiritual gifts. None of us got left behind. Yeah. But I think her point here is that there are certain kinds of things that God has capacitated people to do. And it would be a high crime against heaven to not use the capacities and capabilities that have been granted to us, especially supernaturally by God. It would be a high crime to not use those things to advance the cause and kingdom of God. You feel me? A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, go. The list in 1 Corinthians is different from the list in Ephesians, correct? It's different from the list in Romans. Correct. Right. So I I think it's important not to be kind of legalistic, like, oh, these are the spiritual gifts. We have the list. Right. It's like, well, probably not. Probably Paul is listing things that were relevant and important. And perhaps, and then if you included like the book of Exodus, uh there's a whole nother set of gifts there. Right, like all the artisans when they were building the tabernacle, they had a bunch of new gifts. Correct. Yeah, fair. Okay, so so the idea here is that we have in some cases, I mean, I'll just use myself as a quick example here. I can use you too, Nathan. But I was always comfortable speaking in public settings. And I believe that when I became a follower of Jesus and dedicated my life to ministry, God turned up the volume, so to speak, or the capacity that I had to communicate clearly and effectively, because I wasn't just doing it as a sales pitch, not that there's anything wrong with selling something if that's the line of business you're in. But I think that God's like, look, David, if you use this talent that I've already kind of invested in you, like I spoke at my high school graduation and I was on the debate team, and I used to uh participate in what are called extemporaneous speaking tournaments, um, which I enjoyed. But since I've become a preacher, God's like, okay, now that you're using this for me, for my kingdom, and for the church, I'm gonna gift you with this. Well, it would be quite a thing if I, and I know now, I used to be actually kind of I had this almost false humility about it. Like, no, no, no, I'm not good at speaking. Well, well, that's not that doesn't help anymore.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

Right? You know what's you can still say, I'm a capable communicator, God has blessed me in this way, all glory to God, but I want to use these abilities that God has given to me to be a blessing to others, to God, to the kingdom, and then by extension to myself. You know what's fascinating? Yeah. Later in the chat, he talks about the role of education.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

And I've often thought about the privilege of education uh in building a base of knowledge and skill that that allows a person to peak a little bit higher later. Oh, I like that. I like that. Right. So that's so you're sort of investing early so you can get a larger return later in your life. Correct. So just even thinking about you having the opportunity to be in speech and debate and develop those skills that that perhaps, and then you were a performer in a punk rock band, but still, you you know, maybe those were opportunities that God was using to build your base. I never thought of that that way. But I think you're exactly right. And so then when I came into uh when I became a follower of Jesus and I thought I was gonna be like a doctor or studying medicine or something, when the opportunity came to go and preach, I was like, uh, I don't know how to preach. But I guess I did, kind of. Yeah. And then God used that, and then it became increasingly clear over the next two years that this is what God was calling me to do. And now I just feel so blessed to have been able to bless, by the grace of God, hundreds and thousands of people in the world by this capacity that God has given to me. And I'm just so I'm just so honored. I have a lot of weaknesses, by the way. Like if you want anything done with spatial reasoning or building or uh mechanical, you know, I am not your guy. I am not that guy at all. Just like you have weaknesses and strengths, you know, you might not be a five-talent person. Maybe you and I are two talent Pete. But with the two talents that we have, we want to return two. Yeah, yeah. So I love your point there about, you know, you have Ephesians 4, Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, and the lists are not identical. So Paul is clearly just like, you know, say, oh, and this and don't forget this. And like, for example, the gift of tongues occurs only in the list to the Corinthian church.

unknown 52:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

So, and then I think it's only prophecy that occurs in all three gifts.

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

Yeah. Okay, so gifts of the Holy Spirit. Brilliant. Now let's go to the second one. Other talents. Other talents, and I'm gonna have you read, Nathan. I want to read a couple paragraphs here because she says a few things. I want to read the first paragraph and the second paragraph at least. So why don't you read the first paragraph that begins the special gifts of the spirit? This is on page 396 of types and symbols and 328 of the original. The special gifts of the spirit are not the only talent represented in the parable. It includes all gifts and endowments, whether original or acquired, natural or spiritual. I love it. All are to be employed in Christ's service. In becoming his disciples, we surrender ourselves to him with all that we are and have. These gifts he returns to us, glorified and ennobled, to be used for his glory in blessing our fellow men. And there it is again, for his glory in blessing our fellow men. So again, it's hard to get that dynamic in a study by yourself. You know, it's always funny in you know, in the the in the parable of the talents, this is such a confusing thing. Right. Exactly. Because talents are it's a fixture, it's a demarcation of money. Correct. But it just turns out that the word in English also means like a capacity or an ability. Right, right. Isn't that good? I love the idea here that we surrender ourselves to God with all that we are and all that we have, and then He He gives us, we give our gifts to Him, we give our talents to Him, we give our lives to Him. He then gives them back to us. Hmm. Yes, exactly. So back to your point about, you know, the the speak speaking that I did and being in pump rock bands, or you know, it was just like, how can this ever be used? Well, I was in pump rock bands for years and up front, and you kind of have to deal with the nerves and the nervousness and how to be in front of people. Who would have ever thought that God could take those little skills that you're learning and that little confidence that you need? And then when I give that to Jesus, I'm like, Jesus, I don't know what you want me to do with my life. Do you want me to do medicine? Do you want me to do whatever? He's like, I want you to be a preacher. And then he takes those things, gives them back to me, but purified and ennobled, you know, scrapes off the bad stuff, so to speak. And then now I'm able to use those talents because God has given them back to me. I just love the idea that we give our life to God, he gives it back to us. We give our will to God, he gives it back to us. We give our gifts to God, he gives them back to us. Yeah, that's really important because sometimes you you'll see things. I noticed actually this uh as I was reading this chapter. There's so things that seem kind of extreme. Right? Like where she's like, You are gods. Yeah. Right. But like when God buys you, he buys you for freedom. Yeah. Right? So it's it's it's like if you hear that in the wrong way. You belong to God. Right. Yeah. But if you hear it through like the harsh taskmaster in the parable, you're gonna be like, oh, that doesn't sound so good. Right, right. But if if you say like, if like if I say to Violetta, I am yours, well, that's a beautiful thing. Like I'm I am yours. I'm I'm belong to you in all the ways, all the wonderful ways that a spouse can belong to their lover. And in the same way, we belong to God. He sees a higher purpose for us than we often see for ourselves, especially for unregenerate and unconverted. So when we come to him, that growth mindset that you're talking about is like, hey, here's some gifts of the Spirit. Hey, here's some natural talents and capacities that you already have. Let's advance those. And and I want to show you something in this next paragraph that I think is so great. The paragraph that says, To every man, to every man God has given according to his own ability. The talents are not apportioned capriciously. He who has ability to use five talents receives five. He who can improve but two receives two. He who can wisely use only one receives one. None, this isn't now. This line is amazing. And I see you highlighting that too. None need lament that they have not received larger gifts. For he who has apportioned to every man, and this is where the math doesn't exactly work. He who has apportioned every man is equally honored by the improvement of each trust, whether it be great or small. And I wrote here, the math doesn't really work. But it actually does, and here's why. Okay, follow me on this. So the the math, it doesn't make sense that God would be as pleased with the one that now returns two as he would be with the five that now returns ten. It's like, well, wait a minute, the ten is five hundred percent more than the two. Right. It's five times. How then can these, in her language, be equally honoring to God? And here's why. Because in each case, it's one hundred percent of what was given. Yeah. Right? So one brings two, that's a 100% increase. Two brings four, that's a one hundred percent increase. So I love the idea here that in the words of Paul, you know, those that compare themselves among themselves are not wise. The one doesn't compare to the five, and the five doesn't compare to the one, because the one compares to the one that they receive. Right, right. The two compares to the two that they received, the five compares to the five that they received. And God doesn't say, well, I like this one a little bit more, this one a little bit medium, and this one a little bit less. They all equally bring honor and glory to God because our particular capacities and even our time, like you think about a single, like you were talking about those single moms. I was raised in part by a single mom for a period of my life. Like, it's not like they're flush with time. Right. Right? Like sometimes it's not just like an IQ or an EQ or a sort of innate capacity. It's just at different seasons in your life, you have greater and lesser availability to do things. And I think there would be seasons in somebody's life where they might be able to return one talent for the one that was given. And then in another season in their life, they might have more time. They might have more, let's say that they've uh actually made money. They've done well for themselves. And now they can throw their resources into other things. So then they can become a two-talent person that's now returning four total. So I don't think we should think of ourselves statically like you're a one, you're a two, you're a five, in different seasons and cycles of our lives, we can bring what's available to God based on the particular season or circumstance in which we find ourselves. Yeah, I love that. You like that? For sure. I by the way, I've always loved Second Corinthians 8 12. Yeah. That God expects returns according to that a man hath, not according to that he hath not. Yeah, he does not so good. By the way, in the next paragraph, I gotta tell you something a little cute. And I I'm a little reluctant to say this because you might not find it funny, but in our family, this is hilarious. So I'm gonna let you in on a little inside asher. I totally know what you're gonna say. You're saying about cows? No, no, no, no. It's another I I don't now I'm curious what you're talking about. Like the tin cow woman or something. Oh, yeah, no, no, this is not that. Okay, so this is really cute. So down in the middle of that hex paragraph, the paragraph that begins, the talents, however few are to be put to use, uh, the question that most concerns us is not how much have I received, but what am I gonna do with that which I have? Jump down just a little bit. She says, in making a profession of faith in Christ, we pledge ourselves to become all that it is possible for us to be as workers for the master, and we should cultivate every faculty to the highest degree of perfection. There's the I think that's one of the first uses of the word perfection, or maybe it's the first, that we may do the greatest amount of work which we are capable of. Okay, so this is kind of cute. Um many of you know that when I was in Australia, pastoring in Australia, we our church ran, we built and ran a climbing gym for the community. You came to that climbing gym. And we ran it for the community. It's 10 years later now, and that that gym is still going strong. Uh, at least the last I heard it was, and I'll be there in a few weeks. I'll check it out again. But anyway, just as a funny little thing, in the area where the climbing gym was located, right next to the climbing gym, there was a jiu jitsu gym where like a guy had his jujitsu business there, and I don't remember what the name of it was, something like, you know, whatever, Kingscliffe Jiu-Jitsu. But this is the funny thing. They had like a little logo, a little logo on their jujitsu gym. And sometimes we'd be in there climbing with our climbing community, and then we'd look over and see all these people rolling around wrestling in jujitsu. And my son and I, Landon, we got the biggest kick out of this jujitsu gym because here was their motto. Okay, are you ready? And you know, if you don't find it funny, it's okay. But for some reason, my son, Landon, and I, we thought it was the funniest thing, and we say it to one another regularly. And their motto was Kingscliffe Jiu-Jitsu. Da-da-da-da-da. Exceed your potential. We were like, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. How do you exceed your potential? Isn't the potential the maximum that you're capable of? Oh no, exceed your potential. So we always laugh about that. Like, I'll be like, Landon, come on, you can do this, just exceed your potential. But she actually kind of makes that point here. Yeah, that God enlarges our capacities and we can exceed our potential. So I would say what we are redeemed and what we are in partnership with Jesus is even greater than we would be alone. So in that kind of quirky way, um, we can exceed our potential. Okay, now uh that's hilarious. It is funny. Landon and I all the time will be like, come on, Landon, you can he's like, Dad, I got a big meeting today. I'm a little nervous about it. I'm like, don't worry, exceed your potential. Anyway, go ahead. So now there's this great study uh that uh La Sierra University did called Cognitive Genesis. Cognitive Genesis. So they did this study of Adventist students. And when you take this test, it actually is a pretty accurate predictor of your potential. Okay. And, you know, it takes things like your parents' income, your parents' education, you know, how you're doing in first grade. Okay. Now here's the interesting thing. The longer you stay in Adventist education, the more you exceed your potential. To exceed your potential. But seriously, no, I guess so. They're like, yeah, based on all your demographics, we predict you're capable of X. And but if you stay here, you can be capable of 1.5 X. Correct. And the longer you stay, the more you exceed. I love it. The longer we stay with Jesus, the more we exceed our potential. The more we exceed our potential. Okay. Uh, so I really love that point there. Um, turning the page then. Page 398, 399. Anything here, Nathan, that jumped out to you? And then I want to spend a little bit of time on Well, give me a few words from where you're at. Well, uh just right. So the paragraph, the Lord has a great work to be done. It was right where we just were. You're all over the place. There we go. The Lord has a great work to be done. Um, the next paragraph, I love that first line. God will accept only those who are determined to aim high. Yeah, that's Grove mindset. I love that. Yeah, I mean, why not? Our God is the God of the universe. He's an infinite, eternal God. That paragraph is one of the most fascinating paragraphs. Okay, read that whole paragraph then. Read it for it. God will accept only those who are determined to aim high. He places every human agent under obligation to do his best. Moral perfection is required of all. Interestingly enough, it seems like moral perfection is to do your best. By the way, I'm gonna do a whole thing on perfection as soon as you're done. I got a whole I got a whole thing, and I can't wait to see what you think. Never should we lower the standard of righteousness in order to accommodate inherited or cultivated tendencies to wrongdoing. We need to understand that imperfection of character is sin. All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole. Which is fascinating. And everyone who receives Christ as a personal savior is privileged to possess these attributes. They possess these attributes. He has them as a perfect harmonious whole, but we possess them. Correct. But she doesn't say in a perfect harmonious whole. Oh, now I see what you're doing there. He is the pattern, he's the divine pattern. Correct. And we possess these to the degree that we can possess them. Correct. Okay, so now I'm gonna give my little speech here, Nathan, about perfect, because she says it so many times, almost 20 times, in this chapter. And she just here says, for example, uh, moral perfection is required of all. Uh, the paragraph before, they may gain perfection. And she leans heavy into this. So I was like, I know that for a lot of people, they hear this and they kind of freak out. They find it a little traumatizing because we have this rather static, rather robotic understanding of what we mean by perfection. Now, for those that have already been with us in this journey, let me just remind us all of that great section uh that we did with Jennifer when Jennifer was here, the chapter titled First the Blade, then the ear. Right? This was early on. This is chapter three. And Ellen White has this great line here. I'm just going to read it again. I know I read it a couple days ago. I'm going to read it again. This is on page 72. Look at this, Nathan. The germination of the seed represents the beginning of spiritual life, and the development of the plant is a beautiful figure of Christian growth. As in nature, so in grace. There can be no life without growth. The plant must either grow or die. Those are your options. As its growth is silent and imperceptible but continuous, so is the development of the Christian life. At every stage of development, our life may be perfect. Huh. Yet if God's purpose for us is fulfilled, there will be continual advancement. Sanctification is the work of a lifetime. As our opportunities multiply, our experience will enlarge, our knowledge increase, we shall become strong to be a responsibility, and our maturity will be in proportion to our privileges. So this is kind of Ellen White's, I think this paragraph is hugely helpful to help us to see how Ellen White understands perfection, not as static. And your point earlier about how, well, there's five and there's two and there's one. So perfection is relative even within the parable itself. Okay, but now here's something interesting. I was like, man, she uses this word a lot. And so I had a strong hunch that if we went and looked up the word perfect or perfection in Noah Webster's dictionary, which is the dictionary that Ellen White would have used, 1828 Noah with Noah Webster's dictionary. So I went and looked it up. And it is very interesting. So I'm just gonna read you a little bit here from uh the 1828 dictionary, uh Noah Webster's dictionary. And it says, I'm just gonna read you not all because there's like there's a it's quite long, but I'm gonna read you part of it here. It says, um not defective, having all that is requisite to its nature and kind as a perfect statue or a perfect likeness. And then it says, fully informed, completely skilled, fully performed, completely skilled, and then now listen to perfection here. That's all perfect. Here's perfection. Um uh when a natural object has all its powers, faculties, or qualities entire and in full vigor, and all its parts in due proportion. Okay, so now here's what's quite interesting. So I was like, wait a minute. What about like the word perfect the way we use it today? Because you kind of get this idea that the thing is what it is, as good as it can be. Right? Not this, like, not that your level of perfection is the same as my level of perfection, because you're a different person. You're starting from a different place, but Nathan can be perfect as Nathan, David can be perfect as David, but those two things might not even be comparable. Right now, what's quite interesting is I went and looked at the modern definition of perfection, and it's kind of the things that you might guess. Flawless, right? Flawless, which is quite different. And then I came down here to number four, and this is an obsolete use of perfect or perfection, but the word is mature. So I was like, that's how Ellen White uses the word. She uses it like mature. So then I was like, I want to know more about this. So I actually went and looked up John Wesley. Okay, just quickly here. So, so Ellen White was a Methodist, heavily informed by Methodist views, Methodist theology, uh, the Wesleys. And I started looking into, I was like, I bet, I just had a hunch that John Wesley used the word perfect and perfection a ton. And he does. I actually found a number of articles. I read an article here from Seattle Pacific University on Wesley's doctrine of perfection, and Wesley as in Methodists wrestle with this because he loved the word so much, and he loved it especially from Hebrews chapter six, verse one. Let me read it to you in the King James Version. Okay, so he loved this verse and he quoted it a lot. Hebrews chapter six, verse one. Therefore, leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God. And he would quote Hebrews 6, 1 over and over and over and over again. I was like, I wonder how other translations render that. So listen to it in the New American Standard. Leaving the elementary teaching about Christ, let us press on to maturity. Let us press on to maturity. How about the NET? Therefore, we must progress beyond elementary instructions about Christ and move on to maturity. Quite interesting, huh? And uh so basically the short version here is I believe, and I I didn't do like an you know a scholarly look at this, but then I, oh, just quickly, I just went and compared the the word here for let us go on to perfection or to maturity, and it's the Greek word teleotes. Teleotes, which you can hear the word telos there. And the word means basically mature, right? To grow, to mature, and it's the it's the and to be in a state of of advancement, advancement for the thing at whatever the stage is. So Paul here in, for example, the author of Hebrews 6 is saying, hey, look, let's not stop here at this level of theological theological development, thinking about Jesus, thinking about his ministry on our behalf. Let's advance, right? And then at that next stage of advance, there's a greater maturity. At the next stage of advance, there's a greater maturity at the next state of advance, and at every stage, we can be perfect. This is how Wesley used the term. And I read this little great little article here from uh Seattle Pacific University, and they're like, Yeah, he basically used the word as synonymous with maturity. Maturity. And that's exactly what we just read there on page 72 of this book that we're growing, we're enlarging, we're becoming strong, and at every stage of development, we can be perfect. Now, let me just throw this at the very end of this chapter. Let me just read you this line. This is where it really jumped out to me. Listen to this. And I won't come to this tomorrow, but I just want to quickly read it. It's on page 435. She says, if your duty is in the kitchen, seek to be a perfect cook. Okay. Does she mean flawless? Yeah, like like, okay, let's say what is a perfect cook even, what does that even mean? Go ahead. Yeah, like like what's the difference between a one-star Michelin restaurant and a two-star Michelin? And a two-star Michelin restaurant or a three-star. A perfect cook is a is an excellent cook. Yeah. A cook, but a perfect cook can, for example, we've been making pizzas, as you know, in our oven. And I think our pizzas are pretty good for the fact that we've made them 10 times. We're getting better and better with the dough. We're getting better and better with the sauce. So we're trying to become great makers of pizza. But if I said to someone, my pizza is perfect, they'd be like, You mean your pizza's flawless? No, no. I'm saying for where I am right now, with the talents that I have, the ability that I have, the oven that I have, the limited, you know, I'm not even Italian. But we're trying to, with what we have, I might be a one-talent pizza maker. I want to make perfect pizza with my one talent. And I think if we can hear Ellen White's emphasis here as for each stage of spiritual development and maturity, be that. Be all that you can be there. Bring all that you can bring there. Strive for excellence, like the paragraph that you just had us read. We aim high, but I don't think it's helpful to see perfection as a static, immovable, flawless, like like the like the work of a like a like a like a great violinist who's studied violin her whole life and has been playing violin for 50 years and can play the hardest, most difficult violin concertos and things with perfect faithfulness to the that's not what she's talking about. No. She's talking about where are you? What do you have? What are your natural abilities? What are your natural live to that, bring all that you can there, and then God will, as you were talking about, grow and increase our capacities and abilities. So I I just think it's helpful to see that the way that we today understand the word perfect is not identical to the way that Ellen White uses it, because the way that we understand the word perfect, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to try to be a perfect cook. Be a great cook. Be an exceptional cook. Be the best cook that you can be. You feel me? A hundred percent. It's like a perfect violin concerto. Right. And if you think about being a perfect cook, what's the opposite? Like you know, like a person who's uh, you know, jamming their hand into the pickle jar without washing it. And you you know what I'm saying? It's like Yeah, that's a words it's like there's a lot of ways to be a really bad chef or a really bad cook. Right, right. But there's also a lot of ways to be a perfect chef. Exactly right. And so Exactly right. Uh give it your best. That's that's what she's saying. Yeah and for each stage of spiritual development that you are at, you're a, you know, even Jesus, we used this before, Luke chapter 2, verse 52. Jesus increased in wisdom and favor with God and men. But was there ever a stage at which Jesus was not perfect for that stage of development, social, intellectual, right? Spiritual, moral development? No. It was perfect stages. Now this is interesting. This person asked a question about moral perfection. How does it relate to moral moral perfection? That's interesting because actually there's a tremendous lack of emphasis on moral perfection in this chapter. Right. Well, she does see her say that moral perfection is required of all. Correct. But most of it is about perfecting your talents. Like if you were to look at the sum total of the content of the chapter. Yeah, yeah. And I would say that the answer to that is that the moral perfection that is required of all is available to us only in the perfect robe of Christ's righteousness, which is we learned last night. There's not a single thread of human devising.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:47

Right. So as we try to live into the example of Christ, the life of Christ, the service of Christ, we will not measure. It's like the moon to the sun, right? Like we never measure up to the fullness of the example, the pattern in Christ. But insofar as we can, we should strive to be true Christians. And I what I love about this chapter is actually the focus is on the aim. Yes. Yes. Like God will accept only those who are determined to aim. Aim high high. He places every human agent under obligation to do his best. Moral perfection is required of all. She defines moral perfection as doing your best. As you doing your best, as aiming high. And then she says, Never should we lower the standard of righteousness in order to accommodate inherited or cultivated tendencies to do wrong. So rather than self-justification, right? So we're not saying, well, I always fall in this particular area, so this particular area doesn't matter. Yeah, great point. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, like, oh, my dad was this way, my granddad was this way. I'm we always lose our temper. We're just this way. We're just we always lose our temper and we're just mean. We just have periods of mean. And she's like, well, I don't think so. I don't I because we are, if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature, all things are passed away. Behold, all things are become new. Was Jesus this way? No. Should we try to be more like Jesus and less like your granddad? Yes. Okay, well then try to do your best. You're a new aim high. You're learning. Aim high. Yeah. You say, oh, I fell. I got really angry, and I okay, well then you know we have a we have a fix for that. It's called repentance and confession. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when you repent and when you confess, then you remain in right relationship to God. We talked about this yesterday. Repenting and believing is the way that we receive the perfect robe of Christ's righteousness. And unless you're walking in the opposite direction in obstinate rebellion against God and his goodness and his government and his will for your life, and you just stay on the path. Can I say it this way, Nathan? We aim high, we strive to be like Jesus, and we let God take care of the perfection such as it is. Agreed. 100%. You agree. Okay. Now, the the next paragraph has one of the most unique things I have ever read. Okay. Is it the paragraph that begins and those? Yes. Okay, you read it. And those who would be uh by the way, it's 330 in the 398 of the types and symbols. And those who would be workers together with God must strive for the perfection of every organ of the body and quality of mind. Quality of the mind. What do you make of that? I don't know. I'm r I really want my spleen to be perfect. I need perfect I want my kidneys to be perfect. You know what? You're in big trouble. Why? Because you had your appendix removed. My appendix was removed. So my appendix is never perfect. It's not even absent. It's totally absent. Okay, keep going. Unpack it then. Uh yeah. Okay. Every organ of the body and quality of the mind. So I was thinking about this, right? Like, like I've read several books about the behavioral. Like Adventists, we don't we don't have a soul, we are a soul. Right. I understand. Yeah. So we're we're kind of physicalists in the sense that we understand that that human nature is mediated through the physical body, right? So you know, you know, it's like um This is a really important point. I it's a fascinating point. And I don't even I uh there's a lot I don't understand about this. But you know, you'll think about like you know, everybody's heard about these drugs like Wagovy or Ozempic, right? Right. So so you have different different people have different amounts and of GLP1 receptors. Okay. So that person, if you have a lot of the receptors. Just pause. Nathan is a total nerd, by the way, about science, medicine, nutrition. Okay, unpause. I just wanted everybody to know that. Keep going. Okay. So let's say you have a ton of those receptors. Okay. And they're highly uh insensitive. Okay. So you're gonna have this massive drive to eat. Okay. Somebody else has fewer of the receptors. They're gonna have a much smaller drive to eat. Okay. So so you look at two people and you're like, well, this person is very slim, they must not have any problem regulating their appetite. They're they're or or they're very disciplined. They're disciplined. But really, they're just not as hungry. They just don't have the drive. It's literally not there. And it's the same thing like with testosterone, right? Like people with very high testosterone are very competitive, right? But like if you've got a uh a group of Buddhist monks who are um, you know, the thing that defines goodness in their culture is the practice of loving-kindness. Okay. They're gonna they're gonna outcompete one another in an effort to be loving and kind. Whereas, you know, if it's a football team, they might be out competing each other to crush one another's skulls. So, so it's it's it's just a fascinating thing when you think about I mean, I have no idea what she's saying. I think she's saying that our I think your first point is the point that that we are Adventists because we are uh anthropological monists. We're not dualists, we don't believe that we have an immaterial soul, right? An immortal soul. Our body, our organs, the inside of us as well as the outside of us, should be, we should take care of it. You know, she's gonna talk about this in a little bit with health. Yeah, yeah. But that we should be our spirit is mediated through our physical body, through things like our brain, yeah, our ears, our mouths, our eyes, and we should try to keep these things in optimal health so that we can be a blessing to the world around us. Yeah. Bring glory to God. Great. You like it? Yeah, I do. I just think it's interesting. The more you understand about the physical nature of behavior, yeah. Right? Like it it really does help you to have compassion on people. I was just gonna say, be empathetic. And then also kind of to understand the limits of people. Yeah. Well, this gets down to the one, two, and five talents. Like Jesus here is addressing something that is just fundamental, that we all know that there are brilliant people in the world that are driven, they have capacities, they were raised in great homes. We just I mean, there's just people in the world that are just astonishingly brilliant. I don't know if I'm amazed by that. I mean, just I mean, uh I sometimes will just be scrolling on Instagram and I'll see a person, a human being, do a thing. And it can be everything from paint a picture to play some piece on the guitar or the flute or the clarinet or the oboe to um uh recite a poem, to build a cabin. And I'm like, I could never do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

I just like pe there are so many, my wife and I say this all the time. There is so much talent in the world. Yeah. There's just so much talent in the world, and it's astonishing. And the idea here is that we have capacities, we have talents, we have capacit, uh capabilities, and God wants us to lean in to those capacities and let him, as we've said, enlarge, exceed our potential. And that's, I think, part of what it means to be morally perfect, yeah, is to give our bodies, our souls, our spirits, our desires, our ambitions over to God. And then again, he gives them back to us, and we use them to build up his kingdom and further the church on earth. Exactly. That's moral perfection. That it's not robotic static perfection, that's moral perfection. Okay, so we're still here talking about mental faculties. Let's let's advance here, Nathan, if you don't mind. Uh, that was under other talents. She has a lot more to say. I'm happy to pause it any place you want. What do you think of that line? It's it's the very last paragraph. Christ has given us no assurance. The last sentence of that paragraph, we shall have to criticize ourselves closely and allow not one unfavorable trait to remain uncorrected. You know what I wrote here? I was yikes in 2026, because that is so the opposite of the spirit of the age. You know what word I thought of there? Yeah. By the way, I think that's a great comment. Is the word I like to use is interrogate. Okay. So, or be curious. Exactly. So I I like to interrogate, like when I respond badly in a circumstance, I like to interrogate that. Like, what's going on here? What's the matter with like what what happened? Like, what was going on that that made that go that way? Right. And I talked about this just yesterday that when we sin or we do something we wish we hadn't done, or we make a fool of ourselves, don't go immediately to condemnation. Go to curiosity. Yeah, yeah. Like, especially if you're like, whoa, what was I thinking? That was, you know, you're repenting. Go to curiosity and try to figure out how did I get there? Yeah. Why did I end up there? And that's what she's talking about here, right? Like when she says criticize ourselves closely, scrutinize, evaluate. What was your word? Interrogate. Yeah. You know, ask yourself, why did I blow up at my kids? Why did I do that? Well, probably not because you wanted to, because now when you're more sober moment, reflecting, you're like, well, that was stupid. Right. So there was probably a chain of events that got you there. What was the chain of event? And cut that there, interrogate, analyze, evaluate, and figure out how to not do that again, not just to be sorrow, sorry once you've done it. And not to say, and this is her point earlier, oh, this is just how I am. Right. This is just who I am. I when my kids do something, I just lose my mind. It's like, that's not okay. That's not good for you. It's not good for your kids, it's not good for your spouse, it's not good for anybody. So figure out why that's happening and aim high. Yeah. Figure out why that's happening and aim high. Couple of paragraphs. Many whom God has qualified to do excellent work accomplish very little because they attempt little. Yeah, bottom three ninety nine. The next thousands pass through life as if they had no definite object for which to live, no standard to reach. No, they're not aiming high. Yeah. And and when we think about aiming high, you know, Christ is the model human. Jesus is the second Adam. He showed us how to love, how to live, how to be a human being. Okay, so here's a really important thing, right? So so some of these things are very easy to kind of then then interpret through like a modern capitalist ideology. Okay, unpack it. Right, like as if the the kind of perfection that like like you hear here is about like, you know, just having the perfect home, the perfect family, the perfect job, the perfect life. Yeah. Right. Rather than the sort of moral and relational frame that Ellen White is operating in. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, that's a really good point. We need to hear what she's saying in the context of the Christian worldview, which is a worldview to bless others, to serve others. And we do need to be continually reminded that we are Christians. We are taking the name of Jesus, not just in the sense that he saved me to pluck me up from this earth and drop me in the roller coasters and merry-go-rounds of the new heaven and the new earth, but because I want to live the life that he lived, a life of self-sacrifice, a life of self-giving. That's the thing we're learning how to do. And it's totally contrary to our nature. And we don't like to be told uh or even encouraged, you know, like you said, we have an allergy to this kind of moral exhortation. But the New Testament does not have an allergy to moral exhortation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, think about it this way. When you think about Jesus' life for the first 30 years, yeah. Okay. Right. Prior to his public ministry. It was not ambitious. It was a quiet life. Correct. So you can be a person who is advancing in the ways Ellen White is describing without grasping for something outside of yourself. Correct. Yeah, yeah. And that's a really good point about the point that I made earlier, which is that there's different seasons in your life where you're called to throw yourself into something, and then there's seasons like you have kids or you've just got a new job and you've got to really stay focused. It doesn't mean that we ever turn off our discipleship. But what it does mean is that there are just life has its seasons and cycles. I mean, one of the things that I have really admired, actually, about a number of some of my closest friends that are aging, and uh, I could say their names and and they're dear, beautiful people, but these are people that have retired in a couple cases retired early, and they have just thrown themselves into volunteer work, service work. Now, you know, prior to that, they had to work for a living. You gotta put your kids through school. You you gotta, you know, put food on the table, you gotta put a roof over your head. But when they got all that sorted out, in the last like, I mean, some of these people, like one of my friends, retired like at 59, and he's not even 60 yet, and he's just throwing himself into volunteer work and ministry and service. And it's like his kids are out of the house, he's got grandkids, which he absolutely loves, but he's just throwing himself into the work. Love it. And and he right now has maximal availability, which you might not have when you're 30 years old and you've got uh, you know, two kids, one's young, another on the way. You know, it's just like uh that's a different stage of life. Um, okay, so one thing I want to go down to is the last line that's one of the great lines in in all of Ellen White's writings, I think. Right before she gets to the mental faculty section, the last paragraph there, bottom of page 401, 333, as the will of man cooperates with the will of God, it becomes omnipotent. Right? Whatever is to be done at his command may be accomplished in his strength. And then this famous line: all his biddings are enablings. And I just wrote here that all of this is basically what we would say today like self-improvement, aiming high, but with a Christian worldview and with Christian assurance and with confidence in Christ. And you think about like the Andrew Hubermans of the world or the Rhonda Patricks, like there's a lot of people out there, and and these are just two in this kind of whole space right now of like trying to live well, you know, eat well and exercise well and live well and practice good discipline. The whole diary of a CEO podcast is huge right now. And a high percentage of that's really about it's about self-improvement. It's about trying to be the best version of yourself, whether it's the best father or the best. But but the Christian has a unique perspective on self-improvement because it's not just self-improvement for the 70 or 80 years that we're gonna live on this life, and then we just molder in the dust. We're trying to become like the pattern. In fact, some of the self-improvement stuff at times strikes me as a little selfish, right? A little bit like, well, I'm gonna live to, I want to live to 100 and I want to be healthy until I die. Right. But but to what end? Yeah, that's the point. To what end? So I can enjoy as much pleasure during that time as I think. I just so I can live for another 20 years of pleasure. The the Christian view on self-improvement and the Christian view on what we might call maximizing human potential is we have a pattern, a perfect pattern. We know what it looks like to truly be human, and we want to lean into that. We want to be followers of Jesus. He is our model, he is our pattern, he is our example. And to be clear, and Ellen White's already made this abundantly clear in previous chapters, we live in the light of the acceptance that we have in Christ because of what he's accomplished, because of what he's done. We now grow into grace. We we don't grow to become worthy, we grow because God has made us worthy in Christ. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ, and now we're learning, so to speak, how to fight in this armor, and all the while the world, the devil, our own nature is kicking back against it. And we're saying, no, we want to be followers of Jesus. We think this is the best way, the truest way to be human, but it's not always easy. And that's why sometimes we get these allergies to these like, hey, let's aim hide. Let's be followers of Jesus, let's live for others, let's love like he loved. It's like, well, I just want to, I just want to watch Netflix, man. Leave me alone. I just want to, I just want to I mean, I'm not a Netflix guy, but I'm just using that as an example. Like, I just want to have fun, dude. I don't want to deal with people. But then the irony of that, Nathan, is that the more we live for others, the more we live like Jesus, the greater joy. Right? The the the the more fulfilling our life is versus just living for sort of selfish pleasure. And she actually talks about that selfish pleasure. Yeah, idle pleasure, idle pleasure, selfish pleasure. Okay, so we got through, I think that's a probably a good place to start. So we've done the intro, we've got through gifts of the spirit, other talents, and those are the two kind of, those are especially other talents are really long. We've talked about the nature of perfection. We'll come back tomorrow and pick up mental faculties, speech, influence, time, health, strength, money, and kindly impulses and affections, which I'm really looking forward to. And this is a big chapter. And what I love about this chapter is it is a it is a well-rounded chapter, right? Intellectual, physical, moral. God is inviting us by his grace, by his power, and by his spirit to aim high and to live fully into the Christian life, not just this kind of lazy, indolent Christianity that we sometimes get where it's just like, hey, I'm fine, man. I'm good, I'm going to heaven. It's all sorted. It's like, well, I want to think like Jesus thought. I want to love like Jesus loved. I want to serve like Jesus served. And that does sometimes run right across the grain of what my body wants, what my unregenerate spirit wants. But I'm not, I'm not happy with that. I want to be the best version of myself, whatever that looks like. Yeah. I want to be truly human. I want to be truly human. Okay, Nathan, I'm going to give you the final word. Did you have the opening prayer or the closing prayer? I have the opening prayer. And then I'll have the closing prayer. What's our, what's our, as we prepare, as we end part one and get ready tomorrow for part two, what's our kind of any any word that you've got, any sort of macro takeaway, or just an insight? Or I'm just going to read this sentence. Yeah. If you've made mistakes, you certainly gain a victory if you see these mistakes and regard them as beacons of warning. Sentence two. Thus you turn defeat into victory. Yeah. Disappointing the enemy and honoring your redeemer. Incredible. You know, with the I love the encouragement to do better, and yet the encouragement in the failure. Okay, here's a good example. I'll use a rock climbing analogy. Okay. So when we climb, uh we climb with ropes. And when we're out there, we're trying really hard. You're trying not to fall. You're trying to execute the sequence. You are doing your best. And if you don't do your best, you fall and the rope catches you. Yeah. The rope catches you. And every time, and any climber will tell you this, you learn by failing. You're like, oh, wait a minute. That I have my foot in the wrong place, or I didn't grab that hole just right. And when we fall and fail in our striving to be like Jesus, we learn, they become beacons of warning to us. And it's like, hey, and I love her second line there. It's such a great one. She says, We thus turn defeat into victory. I love that. Have you ever heard the you know you you've heard win or lose? You've heard win or lose, win or lose. Have you ever heard win or learn? Which is a way better paradigm. Not just win or lose, win or learn. Oh, you didn't win. Okay, you didn't you didn't get that just right. So learn from it. Yeah. You know, back to the curiosity, back to what was your word? Interrogate. Interrogating your own motives and yourself. Win or learn. And let's learn how to turn those defeats into victories for our Lord.

Rubric

SPEAKER_00 1:38:31

Okay, this is a bit of an unusual with DA because we're not ending with the rubric and we're not ending with the word, but we're gonna stop here, uh, mid-chapter, chapter 25, The Talents, and we'll be back tomorrow. Uh, same time, same place, same guest. And by the way, a big shout out to Nathan because he had a big day today. He had to get up early, and I made him go rock climbing, and he's tired. And what time is it for you right now? It's like it's a little later than this. It's late. Yeah, and I I'm like an old man. I turn into a pumpkin at like nine o'clock. Dude, I turn into a total pumpkin at nine o'clock. And it's like 11 o'clock for you. Uh 10. 10 o'clock. Okay. You've made it this far. Okay, let's close with prayer. Father in heaven, I thank you so much for my brother Nathan. It is so awesome to have him here, to hear his insights, Lord. Uh, decades of pastoral ministry that you've done in his life and through him. And Lord, I'm just so thankful for him. I'm so thankful for the With D community, all the guests that we've had. Father, we do want to aim high, but at the same time, when we fail, when we fall, uh, we want to learn what we can learn. And we want to turn these defeats into victories. And we want to beat back Satan. We're not going to let him get the best of us. Uh, Father, our confidence is in you, our faith is in you. We're trusting in Jesus. And help us to believe that when we give our life to you, you give it back to us, refined and ennobled. When we give our desires to you, you give them back to us. When we give our ambitions to you, you give them back to us. And Father, bring us back tomorrow to learn more about how to increase and multiply the resources, capacities, capabilities, and talents that you have committed to us so that your kingdom may be further advanced on earth, is our prayer in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.