Second Chances: Prison Reform, Redemption, and the Heart Behind Cook DFW

Some conversations you don't walk away from the same. This is one of them.

Kerri Cook is the engine behind Cook DFW — running the office and the operations, the moving pieces that keep one of North Texas's most trusted contracting companies running clean. But this episode goes somewhere deeper. Kerri is passionate about prison reform, and she's the one who put Lyndol onto Chrisley Confessions — which cracked open a conversation he doesn't tell often.

Lyndol opens up about his own experience with the system, and what he and his wife went through during her incarceration while she was pregnant — including how she was treated after giving birth. It's raw, it's honest, and it's a side of the justice system most people never see. Kerri and Lyndol talk about why second chances matter, what real reform could look like, and a shared hope to connect with the work the Chrisleys are doing in this space.

Hard truths, real heart, and a reminder that clarity doesn't skip the hard parts.

📲 Need windows? Schedule a consultation with Lyndol — text CLARITY to 214-225-1922 or visit woodruffwindows.com.

This episode of Clarity Changes Everything is brought to you by our sponsor partners:

🪟 WOODRUFF WINDOWS — North Texas's #1 window replacement company. Text CLARITY to 214-225-1922 | woodruffwindows.com

🏚️ COOK DFW — Roofing & general contracting you can trust. 833-COOKDFW | cookdfw.com

📦 TEXAS DELTA MOVING — White-glove moving and junk removal with fully vetted employees, so you always know exactly who's in your home. texasdeltamoving.com

Hashtags:  #PrisonReform #SecondChances #CriminalJusticeReform #ChrisleyConfessions #Redemption #WomenInBusiness #Fatherhood #Sobriety #DFW #CookDFW #WoodruffWindows #ClarityChangesEverything

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yes, I am because clarity changes everything. Now just in your house with your windows. And in the cave of a culture, when you find clarity, your whole life changes. So I wanted to bring in some cool people. Let's talk to them. Grab some coffee. Let's do that. Welcome back to Clarity Changes Everything. I'm your host, Lendell Woodruff. I got the one and only Miss Carrie Cook in the house. Yes, the Mrs. of Cook DFW. Just watched the episode a couple weeks ago. We had Daniel, her husband, on here, and we've we've been blessed to be able to do a lot of business together over the years. And yeah, it's been awesome. I mean, when when two people in that are community driven and are committed to excellence, especially in home improvement, um, can align, right? It's it's always great to have a few strategic partners that can rely on each other. Yes. Um, and and things are gonna get done properly. And uh that's really our mission collaboratively is to help more homeowners in the area have a great experience and not worry uh because there's a lot of horror stories involved in homeowners.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

I'm sure Daniel shared those.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Um we've talked about a lot of different ones, yeah. I mean, it's uh especially in the realm that you guys operate in, doing GC life. Like I made the decision very early on when I decided to get into home improvement. I'm only gonna stick to Windows. Like, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

It's fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well, I guess perspective is everything too. Just like clarity changes everything, perspective changes everything. Yeah, because I I don't do good with frazzle, yeah. At all. Frazzle is recipe for crash and burn for for I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

I don't I don't love it, but you gotta roll with the punches, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Um, and you you know, you you basically you make sure all the stuff is tight on the financial side, the office, back end, all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Um, do you handle like procurement of of materials that need to get ordered, or is that the project manual? The office does. Okay. So you work directly with um with our office staff. Yeah, I know, but I I keep wanting to say Sabrina, and that's is it Sabrina?

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Sabrina and Leanne.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Okay, Sabrina and who? Leanne. In Leanne, okay. Um that handles all the all that stuff, makes sure that everything is.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Leanne does all the ordering, um, get trades out. So you'll be hearing from her. We're starting to ramp her up on that.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Um, as far as what again?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Starting to ramp up on vendors out for events, subs and no subs out for jobs.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Oh, okay. So are you y'all gonna start doing like I know y'all do a newsletter, you're doing the podcast. We talked about the podcast with Daniel just a minute ago, and my episode just came out a few days ago. That was a lot of fun being on there. Dan's great, yeah. Dan is really good. He's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

You know, he was on the Russ Martin show. Yeah, forever.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

And I'm a huge fan of that show. Oh, me too. What did he do on the show?

SPEAKER_02 3:18

He was and well, he started out phone calls and worked his way up, and he pretty much was running it.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Was he like the engineer and producer and all that?

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Yeah, he was producer, I believe, when he began, and then he just he kind of moved up with um Alfie and him and the one that went to prison. Oh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

So he he really stepped up, and then when Russ was going downhill, you know, he stepped up and ran it. And he he just does a great job.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

He was very good. He was very good, very uh, very laser focused, very clear-cut on what he wanted to cover. And it was awesome because uh a lot of a lot of those being able to cover frequently asked questions in in such a structured way and have that content to repurpose. Yeah, it's so cool what we can do these days with this with this technology, with AI. It's insane. Where are you from? I don't even know where you're from originally. Missouri. Missouri? What's your what's your story?

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Oh born and raised there, moved to Memphis when I was 15.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Were you wanting to be a country star?

SPEAKER_02 4:27

No, graduated high school from there and then moved to Florida in 1994. Moved here in 1997 and haven't left yet.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

When you say here, do you mean Colin Grayson County or Texas or Colin. Colin. How did you meet Daniel?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

Country dancing.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Country dancing?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Red River.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Uh Red River? Did you know, did you ever meet Elliot? He's uh he's one of our techs, one of our installers. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

You ever met Elliot? No, I have not.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

He's been with us since '97. And he has been the drummer at Red River for 35 years.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Oh, then I probably have seen him.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

He is the house drummer at Red River.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

35 years. That's a long time. Consistently. Yeah. I think he's he's been on the road with some other some other acts. And yeah, that dude is a beast on the drums. So drumming in windows. That's it's about that's cool. Yeah, and and homeowners love him because you know, when he when he works, he he like kind of plays the air drums when he's installing windows. Yes, and he just humming, and he's just a cool, fun, outgoing guy. And um, you know, because it's all about who works on the house. That's oh absolutely that's the most important thing. How they relate to the homeowners. Yeah, it's always key for us. Yeah. So do you what's uh you know, clarity changes everything. The whole the whole concept of this, right, is we all go through obstacles, we all face challenges, and in a crazy, chaotic, very loud culture, um, it seems like if we don't have a good grip on what's important in our life, uh, we can just be dragged along and end up uh just destroyed, right? If we don't have um what was it uh in in your life that you found a purpose in? Um was there something in your past that you overcame? Have you ever had like a situation that was overwhelming and caused you to pivot to a certain direction of uh of a passion or a purpose? Or are are you what are you connected to? What's what's purposeful to you?

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I know you love your grandson.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Oh my gosh. Yes, he's my favorite little human. Yes, nobody's better than him. Yeah, and I love my dogs. Yeah, um, no, I can't think of anything.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

And your little rooster, don't you have what's your little rooster in the garden? No, that's a flower bed, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 6:57

That's a porch geese.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Geese, it's a geese. Why is it? Her name is Gertrude. Gertrude the geese. Gertrude the porch. Well, I know you love bingo. I do. That's fun. And rotary and rotary. Yeah, I mean, you guys are very chambers. Yeah. I love you. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

What did you want to do early on? What did you want? Well, a nurse, because in Missouri, that's all you can do pretty much where I was at.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Two major hospitals that fed Illinois.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

So a very servant heart.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah. Like to serve and take care of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

I love doing real estate too.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

You know, just helping people with that huge purchase.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

It's it's overwhelming for people. You know?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

That's a big decision. And there's a lot to it. How long have you been in real estate?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

2016.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah. And you just something you it's like a hobby?

SPEAKER_02 7:47

No, I um well, it started out that way, kinda. And then I went into it full time, and then when we started this and it grew so much, I've kind of I do both, but I don't focus on real estate as much.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And y'all started this what six years ago?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

2019?

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So seven years now. Yeah, so I think I've met you guys just shortly after. What's what's your favorite cause? Alzheimer's.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Oh, really? Were you touched by that? My grandmother.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

My brain is horrible as I age, and I'm like, I hope I don't end up like her.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

It's very sad.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

It is sad. It's it's tough to watch. Yeah. It's miserable to watch.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Yeah. Were you hands-on with it?

SPEAKER_02 8:30

No. My dad was because he lived there.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

Yeah. In Missouri? It was in Missouri. How long ago was that?

SPEAKER_02 8:40

2009.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

2009? Yeah, it can be a scary thing. Um, and there's a lot of interesting studies that are coming out now about the correlation with diet.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Yeah, I know. I've I've heard that too.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

And I guess that like all the toxic levels of crap that's processed nonsense. Process nonsense and uh in the food causing different amounts of inflammation or something.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I have experienced that and I've thankfully found a nurse practitioner that has saved my life and really gotten all the inflammation down.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Oh, for you personally, yeah. Yeah. Uh so you're on a big diet health transformation.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

I try to we try to eat clean. Uh-huh. You know, dairy, I have learned after all these years, is a no-go for me. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

It's not really not good for anybody.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I I can't, my stomach can't handle it. I try to make my dad feel guilty for that too, because he always made me sit at the table and drink the milk. Yeah when I was little and I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, because it can inflame, like it really messes with allergies too. Like where we live, I mean, we have bad enough. Yeah, it's horrible enough as it is. Yeah. And I'll notice like I don't do a whole lot of dairy. But when you do, you oh my gosh, it's like I instantly can't breathe. It's like a blockage. Wow. It's so weird. Like I love ice cream, but I can't eat it very often.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Well, get the dairy free.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Well, that's that's what I do. But every- Yeah, no, that's what I do whenever I I try not to. Well, when you have a toddler, yeah, you know, I'm having to make a lot of changes uh because so much of our stuff is just poison. It is so bad. It's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

It's terrible, and it's not cheap to eat healthy. It America wants us to be fat.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Yeah. You know, what do you think about RFK? The the whole make America healthy again thing. Do you follow anything? I haven't heard anything along with that.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

I listen to Chrisly Knows Best and Unlocked with Savannah Christly. Yeah. I have a podcast when I'm on the road, that's what I do.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

And thank you for introducing me to that.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

I think it'd be very cool too.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, yeah, Chris Lee's Chris Leys, listen up. If you guys are listening, uh we're gonna get you a reel, but I gotta connect with you guys uh because you know, my story is very insane. And when you told me about them and digging deep into their story and what they've been through and what they're passionate about as far as bringing change uh to the prison system, because the prison system is horrible. Um, you know, I've got first hand experience personally, and then now dealing with it with my wife, you know, being uh it's been four and a half years now. Wow. I know four and a half years. Um, it's been there's a lot to that as far as navigating it, but um the the severe lack of programs or care or tools or any like if you want, they have programs available, but you have got to grind continuously, consistently, dropping like they call it dropping kites, I think, to to the warden or whatever. Like, you gotta keep hounding them and hounding them and hounding them to like you know get either therapy or get into a program. And I think there's a lot of things that are starting to change with that.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

Um Todd has Todd and Julie have made a huge difference. Yes, and I love it. I love listening to hear what they've done and what they've accomplished for these people that live in a camp with no AC in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

I mean, that's inhumane to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Same here in Texas. A lot of people don't realize it, but most of the prisons here don't have uh air conditioning. And and thankfully, we were blessed to um the first place that they sent my wife, um, we got her, we were able to get her transferred to a different unit just before her first summer hit of being incarcerated. And the first place she was at did not have air conditioning. And and that was one of the things that I was concerned about the most because they had her like working in the fields at at the beginning and hoeing weeds.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Todd and Julie will talk about people that die in there because there's no air. It's like how how is that okay?

SPEAKER_01 12:50

It's not okay. I don't see how uh I don't understand how it exists still. Uh I don't either. And and it is truly wild to me how many people don't realize that, right? Exactly. That it goes on.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

And that's what I like about their podcast because they do talk about it. They talk about what they went through. I mean, he's I can the other day he mentioned how many he's gotten out in about a year.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

What podcast?

SPEAKER_02 13:15

No, how many people he's gotten out of prison. Oh, how many people he's gotten out of what's that halfway through, what's it called? That you can get out parole? No. Halfway through?

SPEAKER_01 13:27

What do you mean? The good behavior stuff.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

There's something that Biden or somebody put in. The first step back? That that thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

The first step back.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

He's gotten several people out with it.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

But in that comes also what's re-entry like? Where how are they educated to re-enter the society?

SPEAKER_01 13:47

They're not.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

There's so many different um there's so many different aspects to it. Because when I when I had to go, the program that I was in was called Safe P and it stood for Substance Abuse Felony Punishment. It was technically a treatment program. Okay. Um basically just disguised as treatment, I guess, for funding. Really, it was just prison with a counselor that came in the dorm once a day. You know, it wasn't anything special. They were still brewing prison hooch everywhere. They were they were smoking letters in the shower, sneezing up, like smoking K2. Yeah, it was it was really nuts. I was in this big dorm of 52 guys. Right. Um, and it was a program for people with special needs because I have a history of taking antidepressants, right? So the way the way those programs work is if it's part, like if it's if it's documented that you take psych medication, whether it be for depression or bipolar or or anything. Right. And you get in trouble on probation and you have to do a program, you have to go to the one for people with special needs because you're considered special needs if you have to take psych.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

We always knew that, Lindell.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Yeah, I know. I'm special. My mom said, You're you're you're the only one on the short bus that gets to wear a helmet. You're extremely special. No, I'm just kidding. My mom hadn't told me that. Oh, yeah, it's it's uh, and there's such a huge like there were some people that were in that dorm that were absolutely special needs, like true definition. Like true definition of special needs, like severe schizophrenia, you know, talking to the wall, like banging their head on the wall, you know, and then and then you got there's gotta be a little more accountability around labels. Yeah, right. Um, and the fact that you just have one like that covers everything everything, which yeah, which extreme. So you could be in there for multiple DWIs, right? And then be sharing a bunk with someone that slaughtered his whole family with an axe. You know what I mean? Like there's a there's where's the accountability on on that? The classification is the word that yeah has been going through my head. Like uh there's gotta be a a little better system when it comes to classifying the person. Like, let's just take my wife, for example, right? Um, when her accident happened, and yes, someone lost their life, super tragic, and it happens way more than it needs to. Yeah, uh happens all the time. I mean, there's a lot of sad tragic drinking and driving related deaths um and and accidents, but there's a difference between, in my opinion, right? There's a difference between someone that their whole lifestyle is robbing houses, kicking indoors, killing people, aggravated robbery. Like that, when I think of crime, that's what I think of. Right, that's what comes to mind. Yeah, right. And my wife had just graduated University of North Texas with a bachelor's in counseling. She was had just got accepted to grad school to work on her master's to be a therapist. That's what she wanted to do. Um, great listener, great supporter, a lot of the same kind of heart that you have for people, and you know, want to take care of people. I think that's also a lot of women possess that. Um, and uh, you know, the accident happened and it was it was tragic. She she'd never been in trouble a day in her life, and then the conditions that she was a part of, like the first place she was at um was this big metal barn, and she was housed with a whole bunch of, I think 200, there was 200 ladies in there. Wow. And every single one of them was there for either like uh um manslaughter or murder or you know, uh assault with deadly weapon, like that's their lifestyle, yeah, type thing. Yeah, and there's a few kind of mixed in there that there's a classification again, a mistake involved. And you know, my wife's like this fragile, shy, overly anxious girl that they threw out in the fields to hoe weeds and the you know, with no AC. With no AC, right? Returning to no AC. And we had to fight. Like I had to make calls incessantly. I I was trying to, because she didn't get in that environment. Let me backtrack just a little bit because I think because there is a baby involved in this, I want to be careful how I talk about this because it's not like that's the environment she was in when she was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Right. Okay, correct.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

So a little timeline recap here. We went to court. Well, I came home. I came home from being incarcerated. Three weeks later, like I'd been gone 17 months. Okay, I came home, got us an apartment. Three weeks later, she was sentenced to eight years. So that's the only that's all the time we had together after me being gone for 17 months. And that's when we got pregnant. What else do you think we're gonna be doing? Daddy's been gone 17 months.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

You know what I mean? Lock the nose. We're gonna be in here a while. When no customers can wait. Because I knew we knew she was gonna be going away. You know, um uh we were trying for probation. That's what we were really kind of fighting for. It was a first offense, never been in but death involved. It's very tough. We were really, really trying for that. Um, so uh she was sentenced. Two weeks later, I went to go visit her, and she had her head was kind of tilted to the side. And I go, Oh god, you're pregnant, aren't you? Like I just knew it. Wow, I just felt it. She was like, Yeah, I'm I'm pregnant. So they what they did quickly was transfer her out of county and transferred her to a medical prison first. Okay, she was in a great environment. Uh, it was like the Taj Mahal uh of Texas prisons, it's down near Galveston, you know, air conditioning. Uh she just basically relaxed in the dorm all day. There was no drama. I mean, it was a medical facility, yeah, right? So the the only thing I have to say about that is the they were still eating, she still had to eat the same prison food as a pregnant woman. Um, there was no uh beefing up the milk or stuff like that. No, nothing. It was the exact same stuff, right? That was the first thing where I recognized something needs to change there. Like if this woman is pregnant, there needs to be, I think they gave her like what's the prenatal gummies or yeah, whatever they're called. That was really all that they provided. Um, but like, you know, they should be getting like veg veggies and all that. Oh, yeah, they should be eaten cleaner. They should be eaten cleaner and and and healthy and and like some type of people don't give a crap. No, they really don't.

unknown 21:07

No.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

And yeah, you did something wrong, but are you condemned for the rest of your life? You shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

No, you shouldn't. And you know, that's just how it is in incarcerated. They talk to you like you are an idiot. Um, they talk to you like you're a scum of the earth. Uh so really all she did was just mind her business and lay it like lay on the bunk and read. You know, I would just send her books, make sure she had, you know, money on her books to call uh call her her children, her other two children. And um then this is the next part of it to where I think this really pissed me off. So Chris Lee's listen up.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Todd, Julie, Todd, Julie. I need you guys to come alongside me in this because this really threw me for a loop that this could happen, right? So she carried the baby to term in this medical prison. Her water broke at 7 a.m. They put her in a holding cell because the hospital was 45, uh maybe 20 minutes, 20 minutes from the prison. Okay. Uh it was University Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. There's that hospital on the beach. That's where my daughter was born. So when her daughter broke, they put her in a holding cell because they they do transports a certain time of day or whatever. And they kept her in the holding cell until all the other inmates that needed to go to the hospital that day were all present, and then they all got on the van together. Oh Lord. To drive over to the because we're only making one trip.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

You can't stop a baby.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

My wife got to the hospital just in time. Like she didn't get to get any dimmerol or you know any of that stuff. It was almost like she walked in, they put her the whole time she's laying in the van. Like the other girls that were in the van with her were like stroking her hair and she's freaking out, like just saturated, you know, like this baby coming. And they're just like, Okay, we're gonna get to the hospital. Let's let's get everybody that's supposed to be here first, you know. And she gets there just in time. To where it's almost like as soon as she got there, they put her in the wheelchair to get her to the room, and they're like, Oh my god, get her in there now. And it was almost like as soon as she got there and popped up on the thing and put her a little Were you were you able to make it down there in time since no? The the the dad's not even allowed to be a part of the birth. So the way that it works, um, like I didn't get to be there for it. Um, the mom gets to keep the kid for 72 hours in the hospital alone so they can kind of have their bonding moment. Um, they called me whenever well, my wife called me first. As soon as her water broke, she went straight to the phone. She's like, My water broke, I'm gonna go to the hospital. That's when you should have taken my wife to the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

You'll put her in a freaking holding cell. And wait on other people, and wait on other people just because you only have one transport.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

So, what time was Everly born?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

She was born at 1055 in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

That's fast. But she's had two other children, so it's gonna be faster.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Yeah, 1055 in the morning. I think it was 1055. But they called me as soon as she got to the hospital. They called me and let me know hey, your wife's here, uh, your daughter's been born, you know, go ahead and head this direction. She gets her for three days, and then, you know, once on the third day, uh, my my mom rode down there with me. And uh we we went to, you know, it was cool getting to hang out with my mom for a few days. I didn't get to see her a whole lot. So we we made a trip of it. We went to Galveston as soon as we got the phone call and went to the beach and did some stuff. And um, yeah, on day three, me and my mom went to the hospital and uh waited out in the because there's a special wing of the hospital for the prisoners, right? Um, so there's no windows or anything like that. So we just sat in this kind of box waiting room and then uh then they wheeled out my my little daughter on a cart. You're like, what am I gonna do with this?

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Man, you're gonna go nuts. She was the cutest little baby.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

She had a cute head, massive head. I didn't even realize it at the time. It was so big. I look back, I look people because a couple people said that to me. I'm like, what are you talking about? But now I'm looking at these old school pictures. I'm like, good lord, she did have a massive head. Um it was uh it was so surreal, man. But they, you know, they they wheel your little baby out there, and um I put her first little outfit on her, and uh it's just been me and her since she was three days old. But I do I do want to say this though. I don't I think that you know you hear a lot of stories of people saying, Oh, well that that was a prison baby, feel sorry for them, they were born in prison or or whatever. Um I honestly think because my wife had no outside stress, because the the baby takes on what the mother is taking on. Exactly, right? So daily stresses of life, if you're worrying about bills or you have work going on or just the fast pace of life in general can create a lot of stress, and the stress is passed on to the baby, right? Well, my daughter didn't have any of that, and I think she's been a 12-hour sleeper since she was two weeks old.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

I know that was impressive.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, and I largely I largely think it has to do with that because she was just in a chill environment. Yeah, like there was no drama going on, you know. My wife just laid there and read books and talked to her, you know, the whole pregnancy. The only stress really was, you know, on visitation day when she would leave to, you know, come out and see me because I visited twice a month during the pregnancy. Um, I would drive down to Galveston on a Friday and get a hotel, visit for four hours Saturday morning, have a we could get a full contact visit for four hours. Visit for four hours Saturday morning, stay in the hotel again and come back Sunday morning and visit for another four hours. Okay. And I did that every other weekend. Wow, the entire pregnancy. Yeah, it was a whole lot. Uh so now my Ford Escape is on its last limb because it's about dead, man. 230,000 miles is a 2017. Wow. Yeah, things about dead. Um but even though she was in a chill environment, like she would the visitation room, like the people that worked there were just rude. The way that they talked to me, the way that they treated the scenario, um, she would tell me things about you know how they would still yell at her in the hall, and like, you know, hey girl, where you going, and just like stupid stuff like that. Like, not especially in a medical unit, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 28:01

This is what Todd and Julie are working on. Yeah. That right there. Yeah. Because you're still a human being.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

You're still a freaking human being, a pregnant one at that. Yeah. Right? So, um I mean, the food thing was probably the biggest thing that I noticed from that part.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

But here's the kicker. So she um man, I shouldn't have had I had some dairy this morning. My my nose is inflamed right now. I can't even bring it up. Goodness gracious. Um, when she got back to that medical unit, she was I think she was in the hospital. She had the baby for three days there, and then she was in the hospital for two more days before they sent her back. And they sent her straight to that medical unit. And within not even three days, I mean, it was fast. They transferred her out of the medical unit to the regular prison, and she was in solitary confinement for several days while just having a kid. Whoa. They went from they literally, there was no assistance with any type of transitioning or counseling. Within a week and a half of having a baby, she's hoeing weeds in the field. That's garbage. That is freaking absolute garbage.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Yeah, that I don't disagree with that. So that's no AC again?

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yes. Yeah. So she went from uh she went from the medical unit which had the AC, everything was cool there. But then the unit that she went to immediately after that, they housed her based on what her charge classification was. So where they first put her, there was she was just in this big metal barn with a whole bunch of violent women, right? Right. Um, that there was no classes, there was no programs, she was hoeing weeds in the field, there was no, like, I'm like, there's no accountability around let's you know rehabilitate them. Rehabilitate them because there are good places, right? So at what point, like there's there's good programs and there's stuff available, right? Um, it took me, I don't know how many phone calls. I started blowing the unit up, calling, going, my wife just had a kid. Like she's an educated person. I know there's programs available. Can we like at least get her to where there's AA? Like to be able to get, you know, a a regular. She was there a long time. It was really it was very that was one of the hardest things to deal with. Is I think she was maybe in solitary for like nine days or ten days. Weird. Um, and she didn't have access to a phone or anything whenever you first get to the unit. So it was maybe about a good two weeks before I got to talk to my wife after I picked up the baby. Um, and it was every every night the phone calls were just just tears and worry, and like, and that was very hard for me to handle on a few different levels because I got this kid by myself, sleep deprived, which thankfully, as soon as she hit two weeks, she turned into a she was a sleeper. And I'm like, how's the first answered prayer? Amen. Um but really having to figure out how can I, because I've never been a dad, right? You know, this is my first time doing this. Um, I there's a certain level of energy I have to maintain, right? To still work and be a single dad. I can't have these conversations every single night on the phone. Yeah, it's gonna, yeah, that are mentally just depleting. Right. And I'm like, look, I get it, it sucks. The only thing that I can do is keep calling and keep doing research and keep figuring out programs and keep calling on your behalf, and and like so the first uh, you know, I advocated for her for a really long time before we finally got some movement. Um, because it's been four and a half years. It's crazy, it's been four and a half years. Um, but we finally started to get some movement, and you know, she made it to a really good place and some really good programs, and she's got to, you know, there's a there's a program down in uh this one unit that she's in right now in Lockhart, Texas, south of Austin. Um it's called um EWAP, Empowering Women Out of Prison.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Yeah, empowering women out of prison. And it's the only unit that has that program. It's there, it's a nonprofit. Um, and and she it's so crazy how things work out. They only take a certain um a certain number of women. Uh the the program's nine months long.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

Um, and women from all over the state apply to be in this program and they only take 90 women.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Um, per year.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Well, in that first building she was in was over 200 women.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

And there's when you go to that part of Texas where all those prisons are, I call it prison valley. As soon as you go over the hill and start to depart down into the valley where the prisons are, it's just nothing but prisons. Really? I mean, it's so depressing. It's out in the middle in the middle in Gatesville. Okay. In Gatesville, they're everywhere. Um, just barbed wire as far as you can see. None of them have AC. I mean, it's just we live in Texas, it's terrible. Um, so it took a whole lot of effort, took a whole lot of phone calls. Um, and it was it was a blessing how she even got in that program in the first place because it is so limited. Um, and uh I've my phone calls may or may not have had something to do with squeaky wheel. Um, yeah, but well, there's a backstory I don't really want to share, but um I I was able to um talk to a couple of people um that made it happen really quickly when it shouldn't have even happened. Like she got into that program two years before she was really even eligible for it. Oh wow, because they don't really let you in that program until you have closer to right. It's more designed to be like as you're getting ready to leave. Um, so thankfully uh I happened to know somebody that knew the director and kind of whatever you gotta do. Connected some dots, yeah, got her in the program. And then after the program um was done, they decided to keep her for another year in that program as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Oh, nice. Well, she's got the history of therapy and everything. So that's really cool.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yep. So she's been able to be a part of a lot of stuff over the last couple years, both from an entrepreneurial development perspective, a personal development perspective, um, and just really like she started a program, or not a program, but she started a group in there that other dorms started to learn about, like kind of like a support group for other ladies that were there with the same charge. And then it kind of trickled down and like the office found out about it. And so, like, she's grown so freaking much being there, being there, but but all the work that was necessary to even get her the opportunity to be involved in something like that, uh, it shouldn't have to be that hard. Yeah, is what I'm getting at. Yeah, it shouldn't have to be that hard.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

They should be treated like humans, yes. Better food. You know, if you don't have somebody sending you money, you're not gonna eat well.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

No, it's really sad, and a lot of people don't have anybody to send them money on on the outside. You know, I mean, uh thankfully we've been we've been blessed and have you know been able to keep money on our books and send her books and um you know, and bless a couple other people that are in there. And uh, you know, like if you're if you're bunky or someone you know, you know, need needs some extra, I'll put a little extra on your thing so you can help somebody. Yeah, you know. Um, because that's really what it's all about. I mean, we're we're we're humans at the end of the day. Now, but but the the individual person though has to want to get better. That's that's true. That that is true. You can't make them. No, you can't make them.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

But there are people that do want to get better, they want to get out, they want to go back to society, and they're not equipped for it.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

Right. But the access that the problem is it shouldn't be so hard to get access to stuff while you're in there.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

I mean the internet.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Um, what's that?

SPEAKER_02 36:53

The internet, yeah. I mean, how can you not do classes there?

SPEAKER_01 36:56

You know, just they well, they have stuff like that. They have, you know, I think they don't have anything past there's certain things you can get a bachelor's degree in. Oh, but what I'm saying is there's very limited units that have that stuff because you can you can go, you can learn a trade. There's so many things available to them, but it's not available in all the units. Not everybody gets that. Right. And there's limited amounts of people that get to do it. Um so there, I I think is is it Norway or is it there's another there's one of the other one of the countries, their whole prison system is designed around personal development and healing from trauma. So when you get in trouble, like their whole system is designed to, whenever you come in, counseling is a part of it. Therapy is a part of it. If you don't want to repeat it, you need to treat the person because most people that do bad things, there are there are evil people out there, don't get me wrong. But most people that have like a bad lifestyle or a criminal lifestyle, deep in there, somewhere there's good. Something, yeah, yeah, like somewhere. Yeah, I met a lot of them. Childhood trauma, childhood abuse. I mean, all kinds of things could have happened that they never got help with. That that pain and trauma is what's running the show. Yep. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

The repeat offenders.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

The repeat offenders, because the insides has not been addressed. You can't just lock somebody up and think it's gonna be and think it's gonna be okay. No, I agree. It there's there's got to be a whole lot of changes designed around healing, like internal healing. It's gotta start there. But the it's some of the stuff that I saw. I mean, I was supposed to be in a treatment program in prison, and there was 15 gallons of hooch available every single day, being brewed two bunks over. Oh wow. Um, were you tempted? No, you know what? I was the only person in that whole entire dorm um that did not have one sip or one smoke or one toke of anything the entire time I was there. And um, because when I got there, I was like, you know, if if I have to have if I have to be separated from everything and I have to go on this time out, I'm gonna make the best of it. Yeah, I'm gonna make the best of it. I wasn't even tempted. I mean, of course, they were, hey man, you want to come shoot? No, I don't, I'm not interested, dude. I read 144 books when I was there. Wow. I exercised, I got my GED. I wanted to get out of that dorm as much as I possibly could, but we were there during COVID. Like we were locked down in this dorm most of the time. Um, I was able to get out and go to class to get the GED, but you know, everyone was wearing masks, but we didn't we had hardly any wreck time. I think I had saw the rec yard three times the whole nine months I was there. Um, because everything kept getting you know, locked down. A lot of prisoners die. No. No, not where I was at. Um, and the the place that I was at was different programs. There's like a DWI program, um, there was uh you know different sanctions for probation violations. I mean, it was still Texas Department of Criminal Justice, so I still had to have my head shaved and prison ID and behind barbed wire, and you know, it was the same exact thing, but everything was program driven. Um, so but still we called it trash treatment.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Well, because they talk to you like trash.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Well, they talk to you like trash, and it's just all it's all a joke, man. It's really just designed for funding, you know. Like um, there was no I had to fight really hard and write letter after letter after letter after letter to the warden because I I was there. I had been in I had been in that program for a month before I found out about my wife's car accident. It happened the night before I got transferred from county jail to prison.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

No kidding.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah. It happened at 8 p.m. on January 22nd. It happened at 8 p.m. on January. No, no, January 21st. It happened at 8 p.m. on January 21st. Eight hours later, I had been in county jail for five and a half months while my attorney was fighting it and trying to figure out what they were gonna do with me. Right. Um I'd been there five and a half months. Her accident happened at 8 p.m. Eight hours later at 4 a.m., I transferred out of Collin County to go to the prison, and she came into Collin County that night. Oh her and we weren't even talking at the time. I hadn't talked to her in three months. Yeah, I had filed for divorce, I told you that. I filed I knew that. Yeah, I I was filing for divorce. I hadn't talked to her in like two or three months.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

When the accident happened. There was a lot of elements to that. Like that was one of the the the culprits to leading up to you know her her her uh her downfall. Yeah. Um and so I had no idea the accident happened. So I get to this prison unit and my dad didn't know how to tell me. Oh, yeah, because she was living in our apartment, like all my stuff was still there. Uh my car was in the garage, my clothes were in the in the closet, you know. Yeah. Um so my dad and my sister had to save the day, and my wife's aunt, and they all met over at the apartment, and my dad and my sister packed all my stuff. Tiffany's aunt packed all her stuff, and her aunt took her stuff one way, and my dad and sister took uh my stuff the other way. And it was about a month later, yeah. A month later before I found out the accident happened.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

So how long was she in county? A month.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. My it took my dad that long to figure out how to tell me. But she was in county for three months before she was able to get bonded out. And so, you know, I mean, I'm in this program and committed to to getting better and working on myself and and uh you know, reading and mentoring a couple guys that that I saw um that I saw a lot. Uh what's the word?

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Needed help.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

No, um potential, yeah. Yeah, saw a lot of potential in, you know. Uh so I would have I would just needed help. Yeah, I would get extra copies of certain books brought in, you know, have my mom send me extra copies of books for them, and we would like read together and do little workshops together and and stuff like that. And um, so yeah. Yeah, there's a couple of them that I still talk to. Nice, yeah, absolutely. And one of them is just uh um he's gotten awards at work for the last two years of like top sales rep. And he'll call me on FaceTime every once in a while, and he's like, Man, I'm telling you, dude, if it wasn't for you, man, like you believe in me and you believe in him.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, uh, I wouldn't be where I'm at. Because, like your wife, that was an absolute mistake. That was absolutely nothing she would have ever. Do right. So but she shouldn't have to pay for it for the rest of her life.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

More. Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of it depends on what type of person you are. Yeah. But people look at things like that obviously totally different. Yeah. You know, absolutely. Some of the things that were said about my wife online, like when the whole thing went up on a Facebook page, some of the things that were said about her were just so awful and so evil. So it's not nice. No, it's terrible. And I'm and I'm thinking to myself, I guarantee you, all these people that are saying all this stuff have been behind the wheel when they shouldn't have been. Yeah. I mean, I don't personally know anybody that can say they never have. I don't either. I mean, honestly. I'm sure there are people out there. Because there are people out there that have never drank a day in their life or smoked or smoked or done anything like that. So yeah, of course there's people. Uh, but but the vast percentage, especially in this culture, when alcohol is associated with every single thing that is America, you know what I mean? Like movie theaters, alcohol, concerts, alcohol, everything. Alcohol, alcohol, alcohol, alcohol. Hey, and if you they they make you feel like a complete loser if you don't partake. But then if something happens in your life because of it, they all turn their back on you. It's it's crazy. We live in such a nutsbag society.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Social media is just something. I mean, it can take somebody down in two seconds, a business, a person.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:37

People people kids get bullied on it.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

It's uh it's really wild to see the state of uh of where our society and our culture is at right now because it literally um Daniel and I were talking about this just before you got here. Um about you know, if you if you do want to play around on it a little bit, you you've got to like block a little bit of time and just hold yourself accountable to just using it maybe 30 minutes a day or whatever. But when you see like these threads of people spending their entire day arguing on Facebook, it's the same culprits. Yeah, it is absolutely um it's it's almost to the point of probably destroying more lives mentally than anything else. Um alcohol and drugs, I mean I think alcohol probably destroys more lives than anything else.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

You think more than drugs? I know there's been a lot of drug deaths.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Well, I think and the reason I think that is because you don't have to try to get alcohol. True. It's everywhere. Yeah. If you have like if you have an alcohol problem, you can go to the store. You just go to the store. There's no ramifications. There's no man, I gotta go to I gotta get hold of the whiskey guy today. You know what I mean? I hope that whiskey guy is holding. Like you don't have to put in an exorbitant amount of effort to get alcohol. So if it takes you over and you become dependent, bro, you're in trouble. Yeah. There's no you everywhere you turn, it's there.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

Does she have AA meetings where she's at now?

SPEAKER_01 47:18

There are people that bring AA meetings into the into the prisons. Um, I think that where she's at, they may have one every two weeks that they can go to. Uh they do have church services. Um the unit that she's in, and it, you know, it took some it was a miracle that we even got her there. And it's such a cool story. I'll I'll share it with you offline how how we got her there. Um but the place that she's at, it's kind of like a one-of-a-kind unit in Texas. It's like the Taj Mahal of Texas Prison. It sounds like it. And they've got like the program that she's in. I mean, there's people that come and they bring yoga and meditation and like uh there's mindfulness things that they can do. Right. Well, it it and or just learning how to be a person in general, because so many people have never even been taught that.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Well, and they're treated like crap in the prison system, so they just well, a lot of them are treated like crap in the world. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

That's how they've that's how their whole life has been.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

That's why they're there. So if we could do some reconstruction on what what their what their first I don't know why my words are so often, introduced to like whenever their first get to prison, like the process that they go through to get introduced into the system, there could be some changes on the front end that are geared more towards, hey, you know you did some awful things, you're here now. We we will we want to help you develop some skills. Like if that's how you're greeted, yeah, if you're greeted like a person, you'll act like a person. What I notice in these programs, the one that I was at, is you can't just scream at people and talk down on them and yell on them and treat them like idiots and expect them to not be idiots. Yeah. Like it's so completely backwards.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

It's like, you know, listen to some of the stories that Todd and Julie have talked about, and it's just like it's amazing that these people are allowed to treat people that way. They have some like some kind of complex. I don't know what the deal is. It's just like the prisons are just they're punching bags. Yeah, and that's the worst. I mean, you're not gonna rehabilitate anybody that way.

SPEAKER_01 49:54

No, it's it's it's really crazy. So, Chris Lees, once again, if you're listening. Yeah, we need your help. Yeah, I want to get connected to you guys. I want to come on the podcast, I want to talk to you. I want to figure out uh how is there some things that my wife wants to get involved with whenever she comes home? We have another year and a half. We have another year and a half before she gets another parole chance. She was just denied in December, didn't make her first parole. December 2027 is our next shot, and there's definitely some things that she wants to get involved in. Uh, and it's she would far better be able to speak on her experience than me, right? For sure. So I want to get connected with you guys. Uh, we're gonna go have to go ahead and wrap this up. I gotta get to Louisville. Um, but I want to get connected with you guys so we can have deeper conversations about what you guys are doing and figure out how we can get involved. Um, because there's there's so many things I'd love to see change, um, not just for her side, but the things that I experienced. Um the whole system is the whole system is terrible. So I want to hook up with you guys. Uh, thanks for coming in and talking to me. Absolutely. Uh it's always great kicking it with you. Uh, so you guys remember 833 CookDFW. When you need anything roofing or GC related, these are your people.

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