PRO | ORA PODCAST
A podcast exploring the lives of remarkable people in their professional era. The pivotal years where discipline, purpose and identity converge. Honest conversations with those shaping their craft, their character and their impact.
PRO | ORA PODCAST
Ep 1 - Steven Gregory
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Steven Gregory was a professional footballer playing for Wycombe Wanderers, AFC Wimbledon and Bournemouth amongst other teams. Since retiring from football he now owns the independent FitLife gyms, the FitLife Academy and Roam Retreats.
Steve's humility and honesty is disarming and makes for a highly entertaining listen.
Welcome to the Pro Hora podcast where we dig into the professional pursuits of our guests to understand how they go about raising their own bar across all areas of their lives. And I am here today with Steve Gregory, good friend. Steve played for Wick and Wanderers, AFC Wimbledon and Bournemouth, father of three young boys, founder and owner of the FitLife Gyms in Oxford and Haddenham. And you've also got the FitLife Academy as well. Busy, Steve.
SPEAKER_00Busy, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I thought format-wise, it'd be really interesting to dig into your football career, obviously. Talk about the challenges of setting up FitLife and how you have gone about creating a community, which I can only imagine is not an easy task. And then would like to dig into a few of your thoughts on kind of sporting mindset as a I'm gonna call you a semi-professional athlete in this precise moment in time, but you push. I thought you wouldn't have that, but you are. And then yeah, a few quick fire questions at the end. Um so that's the plan. Right, let's get into it. So football. Um I just thought for people who maybe don't know quite so much about your rich tapestry past, yeah. Um what's start let's start with the beginning. How did you get how did you get picked for Wick and Wonders? How do you even get the picketing?
SPEAKER_00You know what, this of all the questions you sent me prior, this is the one that I've thought about the most. Yeah. Because um, like let's let's be real, I think we've got we've got boys the same age, seven years old. It's Bowden Seven now, nearly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So, and they go and play for Crendon on Saturday morning, and there's 40 kids there running around, and half of them want to be professional footballers. And it's only really recently, having seen that from my son, my oldest son, how much he wants to be a footballer, that I've given myself credit for becoming a professional footballer. Yeah. I think like up until a year ago, I've I've pretty much taken that for granted. And it seems now like a distant memory, like being a professional footballer seems like a distant memory so long ago. But then seeing your question come up, it's the first time I've sort of then actually given myself time to reflect and think that's actually seeing how hard it must be is quite impressive. It's must be, it's completely impressive. Um how it came about um is wildly different to today's world. It's like from being from a rural place like where we live, you know, a village in Buckinghamshire, it's pretty hard, I think. Also, you're at a disadvantage where there's so few clubs, professional clubs around. Wick and Wanderers and Oxford United, the only two locally that you could probably be a part of, unless you're wildly talented and you get picked up by one of the London clubs. So I played for Tane um in the under-nines is when I joined, so older than what our kids are now. And then, you know, after kind of six months, got scouted um by Oxford United. At under-9s. At under-nines. It's so early, isn't it? It is, but it's late these days, is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_01So Ezra, because I know Ezra's actually Okay, so little segue. Bowden comes home from football.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean he's never scored a goal.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01Ezra plays the matches, Bowden doesn't even play the matches, Bowden hasn't even scored a training. Ezra, he's nearly hitting 100 goals, and he's played how many matches? Like 17.
SPEAKER_00Okay, let's take this, because this is what I thought about actually. Ezra scored 96 goals in 17 matches for Long Crendon. Which you get that reaction, right? It's it's nonsense. Okay. Outrageous. And there's there's a group of kids, like there's a couple that are over 50. Ezra's got 96. And that has led him to be invited to Oxford United and have.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so he's already having those conversations.
SPEAKER_00And I've taken him, he's he's done maybe six training sessions there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he's not even at that level. Right, so you're talking about a kid that at Long Crendon Village, right, he's scoring six goals a game, right? And then you go to an academy and he's like off the pace, right? There's these kids already at seven years old at academies that are levels above. And this is Oxford. We're not talking Premier League here, we're talking Oxford United, who are good, but not Arsenal, Chelsea. They're they're on a whole different level, right?
SPEAKER_01It's frightening.
SPEAKER_00So this made me reflect on thinking, God, how hard is this to make it as a professional footballer? And Ezra's dream is to be a professional footballer. Then you take it to like when you start growing and you get all like weird and gangly, and your limbs are like out of sync at like 12, 13, 14, really hard age. So you can be really good at 7, 8, 9, and then lose it by the time you're 12, 13 when you start to go through these growth spurts. Um that, then you get to a level of like 15, really awkward. Like you start wanting to get girlfriends, your mates are starting to hang out at parking.
SPEAKER_01You need to be ramping up the work, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It gets serious as well, like because you're starting to play like proper proper matches, yeah. And another low just slight fall by the wayside. And then if you manage to get yourself into a full-time academy at the age of 16, when you leave GCSEs, you finish school, and you go into uh you know an academy program full-time, you get a two-year contract. You've got two years then to prove yourself that you get into the first team. I was at 18, you're cut again. And so there's all these opportunities just go cut, cut, cut at every age group, at every level, at every sort of defining moment along that journey. So to actually make it, and I say this to my friends like you've got no idea how good you need to be to play in League 2 for Wickham Wanderers, where you could go and watch Wickham and go, God, that was terrible, wasn't it? Like that was a terrible standard because we're all used to watching England and Premier League. Yeah, but to actually get there is so difficult, and I haven't really taken the time to reflect on that as a journey. Yeah, because yeah, so my journey was got scouted, went to Oxford United, 150 kids. The first trial day that I went to at Oxford United. So they basically invite the best four or five from each club locally. You go, you have a trial, you play in this like enormous tournament, round robin tournament, and then you get a letter through the post, because we're talking 30 years ago, unfortunately. A letter through the post saying you either got in or you didn't. Got in, so then you get invited to another trial. There might be 50 kids there. You play another round robin tournament, you wait for your letter to get back in the post. Okay, you're invited back, there's 25 kids, and then you're playing like a match, and then it's a bit more like skills-based and like talent ID type thing, and then you get invited back. And I made it all the way to get into the team, and I played a year as a nine-year-old for Oxford, and then my dad made the decision like actually, you just you're like middle to lower end of what these kids are like at Oxford, you need to be like at the top. So he pulled me out of Oxford and sent me to Wickham. So Oxford were better than Wickham at the time.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And um, I went to Wickham age 10, left Oxford, which I was annoyed about because Oxford were better, but it was totally right decision. Like went straight into the Academy at Wickham at age 10, I think it was under under 10s or under 11s, and then just stayed there, each age group, bum bum bum bum. Wasn't really a question of not being like signed on for another year, because he was right, like you have to be in the top three or four, even at that level, for them to take you seriously. They're just looking for the next one to come and replace you. It's just a cutthroat thing.
SPEAKER_01And if you don't make it, if you don't get scouted when you're nine, say, are there I presume there's still chances later on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, of course. But there's loads of um examples in in the game at a very high level. Yeah. Jamie Vardy, of course, Troy Deany, like there's a lot of these guys that have come through grassroots at an adult age and then get picked up and go through the levels. So you don't have to. Yeah, it's the game over. These guys are getting a massive, you know, the kids that are in these academies do get a massive advantage. The exposure to the coaching, the amount of football they play in the right environments, you just start around the right, you start earlier, and they're therefore getting into the system. But it's so hard. Like in my age group, so bear in mind I was at Wickham from age 10, all the way through to under 18s, as a youth career, eight years, not a single other player that I ever played with in those entire age groups made a single professional match.
SPEAKER_01Do you think it's psychologically damaging for the kids? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't I it's probably a bit bit intense, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm I'm in touch with a lot of them. Um and yeah, they're just like football's still a part of their life in a way because they love it. Yeah, but they never made any money from from football. They, you know, just play it on a Sunday or whatever. And um it's really it's really tough, really tough sport to to crack because so many 40 kids on a sat Saturday morning at our kids are playing it, and each one kind of wants to be pushing to that next level. It's just really, really, really hard to do. And so, actually, long-winded answer to your question, on reflection, now that I'm a 38-year-old man, looking back, I stopped playing at 28. I'm like, was it luck? Was it like what was the I don't know what the difference was?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, it's not luck, is it? I mean, you it would you could sort of put it down to luck if you didn't actually have an enduring career, but you did.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I played over 200 games in the end. Yeah, and so for professional games. And so to make one appearance is like a dream. Yeah. And like the journey to get to that one appearance is is so hard. There's so many variables that can happen. Injuries, people's decisions on you, because that's what you're that's what needs to happen. People need to give you the contract, people need to select you for the team. So you're reliant on other people thinking you're good. All of that has to happen from the age of like nine, which is when I started playing, all the way to when I made my debut at 18 for Wickham. So yeah, Wickham, I had uh I got a two-year professional contract at the end of my youth team scholarship. So you get two years scholarship, and then I ended up getting a two-year professional contract at the end. So I was there till I was 20. Um, and I didn't get that renewed, didn't get renewed. Okay. Um, there's a change of again, change of management, didn't like me as a player or or didn't think I fit into his plan, so he didn't renew my contract. That's how I became professional, uh, a um personal trainer. So I had a year basically being a semi-pro for AFC Wimbledon. Um, because at that point they were in the National League, which is the league below League Two. Okay. And the first year I joined them, they were in a semi-pro stage, they were transitioning into a professional team, but they weren't quite there yet. So the first year, I was only training on like Tuesday and Thursday evenings, and so I went and did a personal training qualification and started PT in on the side because the money was terrible, and then the year after they became professional and we got promoted to back into a league.
SPEAKER_01But you went on loan to Bournemouth as well.
SPEAKER_00No, I signed for Bournemouth. You signed for Bournemouth. Yeah, so okay, this is another kind of interesting turn of events. So get released from Wickham, who are in League Two at the age of 20, being told, like, you're not basically you're not good enough to play in this team in League Two.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you kind of start to believe that when someone's telling you at that age, and so I take a step down to the to the next level, and I do I'm doing okay at that level, and I think okay, this is this is my level. Um, but then you start to like in sport, in life, in anything you do to be successful, you have to have self-belief. And when you get released, when you're rejected at 20, your self-belief gets a massive hit. Gets a massive hit. And um, you've got to find a way to like get that back. And playing in men's football week in, week out, against people whose like livelihoods are like on the line, you know what I mean? It's not like in the Premier League where people are on £100,000 a week, it doesn't really matter if they win or lose. I I'm sure it does to them because they they care, yeah. But it really does matter at that level when you're on 30 grand a year. It's bread on the table, isn't it? And it's bread on the table, you've got to pay the mortgage. So, as a 20-year-old lad, like going into that environment was a massive wake-up call when my teammates are 30 years old, and it does matter to them if you win or lose, or if I give the ball away and they the other team score a goal and it costs them their win bonus, that's a big deal. And so that was awesome because I learned then to like stand up for myself, to play every single game, to know what it's like to be part of a process to go into the league matches. Um, and then going into that second season when I then started to be professional again and play and play every day and train every day. My self-belief went back through the roof of being like, no, do you know what? Like I am actually good enough to be back in the football league.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we just went on this incredible run at Wimbledon that that year we were professional. Uh, we came second in the league and we went up through the playoffs back into the football league, which was mega for the club. And Bournemouth, who were in League One, a very, very good League One side at a time, now in the Premier League, um, bought me. They said, yeah.
SPEAKER_01How old were you then?
SPEAKER_0023. 23. So 23 years old. They um there was a lot of rumours going around that whole season about different clubs coming to watch me play in League One, and not in Bournemouth were never on the radar, but there was a lot of different ones. And so I knew there was like a chance maybe that I might get a move back into the Football League if we didn't get promoted. And then um, yeah, and then Bournemouth came, just as at Union Bournemouth, weirdly, my wife. And so I knew it really well, I knew it was a great town to be. And then, yeah, I was I was in Portugal on holiday after that year, and then got a call from my agent saying, Yeah, Bournemouth have put a bid in um for you, hundred grand, which today's world's nothing. But when someone's willing to pay that money for you, you think, okay, two years ago I was released from League Two, and now a League One club want to sign me for 100 grand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Went and joined there, and um, yeah, spent two years there. And then and then went on loan back to Wimbledon.
SPEAKER_01Okay, that way round. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So being at Bournemouth was great. Um, but again, management change at the end of the first season. I played about 35 games in the first season, did okay, did well, and then change in management, Eddie Howe, who's now Newcastle manager, came back to Bournemouth. Yeah, and a new owner came in, Max Denham, who's like made the club what it is today, what everyone sees Bournemouth today. And they decided, right, we're gonna go to Premier League, and so I got left behind.
SPEAKER_01That's very much.
SPEAKER_00They were like, You're not Premier League, mate. So um you're telling me this story when we So yeah, they just I just remember being that summer, like in between the season, just seeing like every day, like we've signed a new player, we've signed this player, he's playing the premiership, he's playing the championship, and like I've come up the other way, and these guys are coming down to bring the club back up, and I just thought, oh, I'm not gonna play this year. I just could see what was happening. And being at the age that I was, I think it was 24 or 25, I thought, no, I need to play every week. I've been playing every week for the last two, three years. Yeah, I can't sit on the bench now. Um, so I went back on load to Wimbledon, which was great. Like, I knew I was gonna play every week, it was a club that I knew and familiar with, and that's key. Like, again, that that key to keep your self-belief all the time is there. So, how do you start a gym? It's more like what can I do tomorrow to get some money and like just make that next step? Yeah, so my nephew's birthday, second birthday party, and he's 14 now, so that tells you 12 years ago that was. And um, my sister obviously was there with all of her friends and her mum friends, and I sort of kind of announced it to my friends and family at that moment. I'm not gonna be a football player anymore. And then it's like, what are you gonna do then? I'm gonna be a personal trainer, and there's all the mums that are got two-year-old kids, which are like peak for that's basically how my business is made, right? I think it's every gym, right? Every gym. So there's this captive market there of mums then going, you can train me, and like, oh, you can help me get fit. So it's like, okay, cool, let's do it. This was in the summer, so I said, right, meet me. Well, this is in my mum's garden, okay. Meet me back here tomorrow, we'll do a boot camp. So, boot camp number one, I've got three people, my sister and two friends, and just like literally just loved it. Just a couple of old kettlebells in a garden, doing a workout, chatting, having a laugh. They loved it.
SPEAKER_01I mean, there's a lot to like, isn't there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it's a quite a strange transition to go from playing in front of 10,000 people, sort of two months prior, to training three people, one of which is your sister in a garden for free. So it's quite a big transition. Yeah, 100k salary to you know what I mean. Yeah, humbling. But I was like, this is it. Yeah, I'm all in for this. So then it's like, right, let's do that again. Let's do this again in three days, bring some more mates. Yeah, and it just like that's just how it happened. It was called the secret boot camp. Um, was the first ever thing. So the secret boot camp in my mum's garden, word of mouth, great name, just tell your mates to come along. Yeah, they can pay me a fiver if they want, I don't care. Like, I'm just here to have a good time. And then the community, I guess, that FitLife's foundations have been built on came from that. The people that came to those boot camps are still members today at FitLife, and that's just like when you say you build a community, it's like there's no strategy really. It's just like make it fun. Be a good person, yeah, make it fun, and do what you say you're gonna do. Yeah. If you say you're gonna be there at a certain time, be there at a certain time. If no one turns up, then it's fine. And that happened more than I care to remember, especially when it starts to get into winter and you're still trying to run boot camps and no one's turning up and you're still there stood in the rain with your kettlebells. It's like, okay.
SPEAKER_01At least you can fit a workout in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, workout in. So um, but then the gym, like, I I went through that first winter doing boot camps. Okay, and the gym still wasn't my radar. So I'd done kind of six months on my belt, and we had about we had over a hundred people coming, not in one go, but like over the course of a month, I could count a hundred people that would sort of come dipping and out on my database. And I was like, okay, I don't want to do another winter here because this is rank. So I started to think about premises, right? Where can I do an indoor style boot camp? And I wanted to do like a barn, like rural, keep it like as a boot camp, but just have shelter. That was my initial idea. Um, I just could not find the right spot. Yeah, like these kind of farms that have been converted commercially now didn't exist. They were a traditional farm. Funny thing, isn't it? Yeah, and so like it'd be really easy to do that now. Yeah, there's a lot of them kicking around, but back then there wasn't any. So I would either go to a commercial, like landlord, or I would, I don't know, crack on outside and see. I got a marquee that blew away. Why did you do it without hadn't them? Two years.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_00So the boot cam went for two years. So I did the first year, but that okay, so I could do the first year and then started looking for premises. Couldn't find anywhere for a long, long time. The place where FitLife hadn't them is now had been just this boarded up old building that was falling down that used to be a doctor's surgery. So like it was never a I'm gonna finish football and I'm opening a boutique gym and then I'm gonna open one at Oxford and like we're gonna start this massive kind of movement that we've created with FitLife.
SPEAKER_01It's just process, meandering through the flow of Oxford.
SPEAKER_00It's seeing opportunity and being open to opportunity and um and diverting, like, and and thinking, is that gonna work? Is it not gonna work? And if it's gonna work, let's just go two fit it in and do it.
SPEAKER_01So running a gym has got to be very different to being a PT.
SPEAKER_00Extremely different. Yeah, so we've talked about some of the challenges. We have, and I'm going 360 with it, it's probably a good time to say because it's again, it's um, and it's probably the same for any founder of any business. The reason you start the business is not where you end up and what you end up doing in the business is totally different. You have to do a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff. You're winging, yeah. So um I started with PT. Now, Jess gave up her job in education to come and start start that gym with me. Without her, doesn't work because her skill set, organization, like diligent, by the book, working with staff, um, payroll, like she was doing all of that and just allowing me to go and coach. I would coach 12 hours a day every day. Oh my god. And like, I don't mean wrong, I was shattered, exhausted, didn't have kids, we didn't have children. We would open the doors, me and her would drive in, we'd get there at six, and we'd leave at nine o'clock every day for six months when that thing opened. And we had Lawrence, who was part-time, yeah, and we had two other full timers, one a coach and one a front house. So we had a bear in mind we've got in Hadnham alone, I think we've got 16 staff. A cross contractor part-time. Yeah. But we had me, Jess, and three others, one of which was part-time. So we were working like I don't know how many hours. Oh, is it any hour the gym was open, we were there.
SPEAKER_01It's a problem that gyms open early and close late. Yeah. So we were there for you. We were there a little bit.
SPEAKER_00And then, but it worked, right? And we got we got busy quick. We, you know, we did well, quite well financially early.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But we still didn't really know about like scaling, we didn't know about staffing. We just kept doing it until the point where we both were like so exhausted. Six months later. Like I was like, I had a bit of a meltdown, like after sitting so tired, no time for anything else other than just working. It's like, what are we doing? And then you take advice about staffing and you just start that process. And then once that happens, then your life changes in terms of okay, it's not sustainable the amount of hours that I'm doing coaching. So now I need to bring staff in to do coaching. But then that kind of like, what do I do then? You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, they're doing the coaching now and they're doing all the classes. Like, what am I doing? And then your roles start to change, and then you become a manager and you become a salesman and all of the other stuff. Yeah. And you get hooked into the business chat and doing all that. So, and that's kind of what happens. And I've never, but I've never taken myself fully out of the coaching world because I have to remind myself of that's what I love to do.
SPEAKER_01You were very involved, obviously, with building the membership at um Oxford at Summertown. How did you because it must be so daunting, you know, you managed to get investment, you found a great location, decked the place out, yeah, lovely setup, and then you open the doors and you've got to have a membership, haven't you? Just how did you solve that? Because I can only imagine that you think you're gonna find a great location and they'll just walk in. Well, you may not have thought that. No, I did. I probably would have.
SPEAKER_00I did, yeah. I mean we I made almost every mistake you could probably possibly make, I reckon. I don't think you'd be alone. And in in opening a second location, right? Right, so much of it was driven by ego, I think. Um I don't think, I know, so much of it was driven by ego that I kind of just was ignoring everyone else. I was being so stubborn about how it's gonna be that I was just making continual mistakes. So, yeah, it's a fast track, we did really well in Hadnan. We started to get attention from people wanting to invest in it to do it in different locations, which I wasn't on my radar until those conversations happened, and then you're like, yeah, okay, let's do that. Um, and then yeah, we found this site for quite a long time, like COVID was in the middle of that. Um, so like coming out of that, we found like location in Oxford. As you said, it's literally like prime location, yeah. Um, it was a bank, so again, a big job to renovate. Um, and look at what we've done in Hadnham. If we can do that in Hadnham, like surely we can do that in Oxford, but it's so wildly different. If you think about what I've just said about the effort that it got to make Hadnham successful, and that isn't there in Oxford, so why on earth would someone come and join my gym when they could go and go and get a cheaper one up the road or and there was competition, wasn't it? Yeah, go to Nuffield, which is like 500 metres away, and they've got crash and swimming pool and tennis, and I'm charging the same money. And I was like arrogant enough to be like, yeah, but it's fit life. You know what I mean? Because like well, obviously they're gonna come, it's fit life, and it's like, well, they didn't know who fit life is. No, so I don't know what I'll do, I'll start a boot camp in Summertown. That's what I did. So I was like, how did I make Fit Life successful? I did a boot camp. I'm gonna do a boot camp every Saturday morning. Copy paste. So I ended up getting like 20 people coming to this boot camp on Saturday morning. Yeah, I know. So then I was like, oh, there's 20 people that come to the boot camp. We're definitely gonna get 500 members. And then um, and then we opened the doors, yeah, and like you say, it was like no one coming in. I think month one, month one in Hadnham, we had 300 members in the first month. That month one in Oxford, we had 80. I think Hadnham's a bit unique.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's outrageous first month membership.
SPEAKER_00So we we had 150 pre-sign-ups in Haddonham, mainly because of the boot camps, and then 300 after month one. In summer in Oxford we had 80. That's still very good. Well, I don't think it was. No, I mean it depends what good is, doesn't it? But and and it was like, oh my gosh. So then anyway, we it just didn't work. The first year in Oxford, you know, I was hanging out with you a lot at that point, like I was stressed. You were um I couldn't really figure it out, and my go-to when things aren't going well is just to work harder, and that wasn't working. I need to teach classes, that's the reason, because they don't like the instructor, so I'll do it because I'm Fit Life, so I'll go and do that. So then I'm teaching classes, and it's like they're still not coming. It's like, what on earth are we what's going on? And then I'm over here concentrating summertime, and hadn't over there falling apart. Yeah, because I forgot that hadn't them is like that because I was there 24-7. With the identity, and then like I've just abandoned ship, and then that's falling apart, and this isn't working, and I've I had this amazing gym, and now I haven't got an amazing gym, and also I've got this failing one over here, and the whole world is just crumbling around.
SPEAKER_01So stressful.
SPEAKER_00It's how it was, like it was just chaos, it was awful. So we're losing members in Hadnham because it's not doing very well, we're not getting enough members, and suddenly, yeah, suddenly it's like, are we is this it? Yeah, you know what I mean? Is this is this how it all ends?
SPEAKER_01But you turned it, you did turn it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so then then it was so I use the word surrender now a lot, and like not surrender is in give up. It's not what I mean at all. But surrender to what your belief is and surrender to the reality of the situation. So rather than trying to fight against what I thought was right, I was surrendering to like just decided I can't do this anymore because whatever I believe in is not working, and I started to be not the guy that I wanted to be to my Hadnam staff as well. Because I was like, you don't understand how hard this is for me. I'm genuinely like they would come to me about some innocuous thing that they want me to decide on, like I don't know, whatever, and I'd just be like, I'd be horrible. Do you have any idea? Yeah, literally. Yeah. I'd be like, do you think I care about that? Like, I'm dealing with this over here. Yeah. And I and then they left. And I was like, oh, why are you leaving? And they're like, obviously you're leaving, because honestly, and then the moment I was like, I can't do this anymore, I'm going to employ the best person I can and leave them to it. And your your job is to fix this situation, right? Not that I'm abandoning ship, I'm not, but like, whatever I'm I'm the problem is how I started to identify it, which may or may not have been true, but I started to feel like I'm the problem here. And if I don't remove myself from this and allow someone who's done this before or is better than me to go and sort this out, fit life doesn't exist. Not only does it not exist in Oxford, it doesn't exist in Hadham anymore. And that's a problem because a lot of people like that place, right?
SPEAKER_01So you solved it by stepping back.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And delegating. For the first time in my entire life as a businessman, I delegated. And I got the right people in the right seats, which is a very business term, but right people in the right seats, and I gave them specific instructions. Reformer. Okay, we need reformer. Alright, let's do reformer. Reforma's been good for you, isn't it? Like transform the Fit Life. Like, took spin out, put reformer in. Suddenly, you're getting the right clientele walking into your your business who are happy to pay £25 for a single session, and then like, oh, you do personal training, let's do that, and then you buy a shake, and and it's suddenly like, so that was cool. Then we did small group PT. So it was like we need to do small group PT. No, but we do we do one-to-one PT here. We don't do small group here, but we need to do it because of this, that, the other. It's gonna get this okay. Let's do that then. Boom. And then takes it to the next level. And those two standalone things is what saved Summertown from going under. They were holds.
SPEAKER_01Sorry? They were your ideas.
SPEAKER_00And when you say you stepped back and you bit some of the things, they were my ideas, but like I don't think I would have been able to implement them in the current space that I was operating in previous, where it was just like grind, grind, grind. Yeah. Until I stepped back and looked at like, what's the problem? Like, why is no one coming to a spin class? Why has no one come to a hit class? They should come to it, so let's do it, let's do more of it, let's do it harder, let's do it better. As soon as I surrendered to that and like checked myself on ego and been like, okay, this isn't working, then you give yourself permission to make those bold, bold decisions. Because when we removed spin, the backlash was unholy.
SPEAKER_01I remember you telling me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Unholy. Like from members that love spin. Um, I mean, like, they wanted to like hang me, honestly. It was crazy. Literally. Yeah, literally. And um, yeah, get an email saying, you know, how dare you literally, like, how dare you do this? And obviously, little did they know, like, without that decision, the whole thing breaks, but you can't say that. So you're just dealing with that. And and but yeah, without kind of that word surrender of this isn't working. Um I can't just keep pushing, pushing, and pushing and pushing. I need to step back, I need to surrender, and surrender to what the people want, yeah, and not what I think they want. It's hard to do though, isn't it? It's hard, it is hard. Um especially for the you've never had to do that before.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so um there's so many like ebbs and flows of business that you're experiencing right now that you never thought would experience. And one day you think you've nailed it. And the next day, you think you're dead.
SPEAKER_01It is literally day-to-day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I don't know if we're more prone to the spikes of it. But you can feel like you've got all the luck in the world, it's coming, you're on it, and then bang, next day, and there might not even actually be anything to trigger it, it's just you psychologically in your head talking shit, you know.
SPEAKER_00Let me just give you someone, like, listen to this, a quick snapshot into a small business that I run. Um and the and the and the ebbs and flows of a week, right? So we um at the start of last week, it might have been the week before, I lose track. Yeah, start of the week before, I was getting a few calls of some amazing opportunities for Fitlife. Like, we spoke on the academy, we were getting a few calls about putting academies into other schools, had some really great conversations with people that want FitLife to be part of their premises, or like, you know, not like really just great opportunities. We had like loads of sign-ups, you know. Since January, we've had 18 new members join, like, it's amazing. Everything's going great. And then I had a bailiff turn up to FitLife, right? At 7:30 p.m. whilst I was putting Otto to bed, I'm doing Otto's bedtime, and I'm getting missed calls from one of our staff members. I'm like, this is weird. Answer it, he's like, Steve, there's a law enforcement officer here. I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, there's a law enforcement officer here from uh a company called PPL. I was like, what, the music license, guys? Yeah. And he was like, yeah. So anyway, he puts puts me on the phone to this guy. And so we've had a music license for since we opened.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. And we've always we've always had to have an excise to music license because we used to run spin and classes like boxing, which were to music, right? So when music is the focal point of your class, you have to, and that's a really high tariff. We're paying four grand a year for a music license.
SPEAKER_01Four grand a year?
SPEAKER_00Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Well, I wasn't getting any of that. Anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so the premise is you pay this license and they distribute that wealth across wherever. And um we don't do those classes anymore. Okay, so we need a background music license, which is £800, okay, right? So they bill me for four grand on our renewal, and I wrote back to them and said, no, like, we don't need that license anymore. We need this one. And they they replied to say it's too late. Like, we've issued the license, pay the license. I replied to say, I'm not doing that, it's four grand. Like, I don't need the license. Yeah, I need a background interview's license, 800, please issue it. Didn't hear anything, and then um I got a letter in December to say that um from like an external debt collection company from the same PPL thing for five and a half grand. Yeah, saying you now owe us five and a half grand, we've escalated this to a debt collector, pay the thing. So I ring them up and say, look, pause this, I'm dealing with a company direct. Anyway, next thing, I don't hear anything, right, from this stage. So the my communication is just getting lost in the ether of this company, and then a freaking lorem for some comes. That's so over the top. Six and a half grand. Six and just I would just add another grand on, whatever. Six and a half thousand pounds for an £800 licence that I should have had. That's unbelievable. And uh I had to pay it, right? So I paid this guy to get off the premises because I've got a young staff member who's freaking out. I've got a gym full of people. Like, if I was there, I would have said, alright, take my treadmills, like whatever. Good luck. Yeah. Do you want me? Do you want a hand with that? Like, I'm not paying it, but at that moment in time, I was like, alright, I'm paying this guy to get off and I'll then chase it and try and get the money back. But that is the ebbs and flows of business. Like, the moment you think you're winning, yeah, there's always a bill coming. There's a bill. There's a bill coming that that you can. And even if you think you're on top of it, like some someone's gonna come and get you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Whether it's HMRC, whether it's definitely HMRC, some company that needs money off you for nothing. Like, and that's just like a thing where people don't see that as well. So keep your mind a bit. Yeah, it's the ebbs and flows of it. And then the next day you just have to do it all over again.
SPEAKER_01So um just a quick one. Thanks for listening to our first Pro Oral podcast. This Saturday, the 7th, we will have the full range for you to view at Steve's gym in Hadnham. So if you're in the local area, do comment down. We'd love to show you the collection and explain to you exactly why we have made this whole new sportswear brand. Thanks for listening. Right, so while I'm gonna segue slightly because I had some there was a few bits I wanted to ask you, and it's quite fun getting into just a little bit of the sporting mindset stuff, which you've got experience with because you've had to perform under pressure. Um and I send you a few questions about golf and flawed. So I have been corrected. So you used to play off one, yeah, you now are typically three, but you reckon you're about maybe seven, eight. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and obviously I'm a five.
SPEAKER_00I still think I'm a one until I hit a ball and it's like going over it.
SPEAKER_01It's humbling, humbling feedback loop, isn't it? Um but I obviously play a lot of tennis, and I think there's a lot of overlap with kind of the mindset that you have to apply to both those things. Um and I have some of my own sort of structures and techniques that I use when it's basically when it's all going wrong, you know, how do you fix it in that moment um and how do you put how do you put it back together? I just I'm really intrigued in that that whole piece. Um but so so to that point, if you're preparing for let's say a clutch putt. Yeah, um what do you have any any thought processes, any things you anything you come back to to help you in that moment to steady the mind? And I know that you know there's lots of things that people use, but I just wondered in the in the in the mind of Stephen Gregory, what are your tips and techniques for people?
SPEAKER_00Well, there's a word that I use in golf called disconnect, and you have to disconnect from the out from the result in golf, and I think probably in tennis. Yeah. Where the reason it all goes wrong in golf is when you become so focused on your score and what the result is going to be. And so that could be a t-shirt, that could be a putt. If you are so obsessed with getting it right, which means you're obsessed with getting it wrong, it will go wrong. So disconnecting from the result is really key, and I think that's it can that can relay over to so much right. But absolutely. So, like for a putt, for example, you've got a 10-foot putt, which is a make of 30%, 40% at my level. Um if you can basically read that part, look at that part, step over the ball, and then completely disconnect from the outcome of that part, I think you've got an immense chance of making it. The moment you're over that part and you go, I have to make this, I have to make it, I feel like you're never gonna make it.
SPEAKER_01Here's the thing, right? Because I say I've got to hit a surf, just to use my own kind of um frame of reference, but I've missed my first, second surf. Yeah. I'm in my head. James, you don't care. Yeah. You don't care. Relax, deep breath, hit the serve. Don't fall. Okay, you're the opposite. Well, no, I didn't just you can tell yourself a message like the disconnect piece, can't you? But it's really hard to actually embody it.
SPEAKER_00So there's two things. Okay, maybe I missed the first thing. A laser focus on what you're doing. Okay. Is still different to a disconnect to the result. Yeah, okay. So a lay a laser focus. So with a t-shot, right? Most people just see the fairway. I think I just need to hit the fairway. What I do, and I know what a lot of professionals do, is they'll they'll pick literally a blade of grass that they want to land that ball on, and they'll hone in and zone in on that blade of grass or or a leaf on a tree that they're like that's that's my end point. Not the fairway's not my end point, it's a hundred yards wide. I'm lasering in on that that leaf on the tree, and you're laser focused and you're blocking everything out, but once you've got that laser focus and you're addressing the ball, then you disconnect from yeah, okay, and then it's like fric because the moment you tense up and that's when it all goes wrong. Yeah, so it's different to like being super chill and serving, yeah. Like your the intent is there, but the like stressing over the outcome, yeah, I think is really key.
SPEAKER_01So I'm gonna take this the same analogy. Yeah, you're taking a penalty, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's mega. Um have you done this? Did you have to take penalties? I haven't taken one in like a hugely pressure environment. I've taken penalties, but not in like a penalty shootout that so much is on the line.
SPEAKER_01Because obviously, you know, World Cup, whatever. The guys are professionals, mind-blowing pressure. And I and some of them, how they deal with it is just so impressive. Yeah. When you run up, they'll have like a routine that they're doing in their head, won't they? So steps back to the side, like where they decide to look, what they're kind of what what penalty they're gonna take. That point of striking the ball, and I guess the same with the putt. Are you are your eyes on the ball at that exact moment that you're striking? Or are you is it not as strict as that? Like are you sort of because you've got your you've got your so is it's the same with the drive, okay? Is this golf or is this? Well, it's kind of both, right? Right? You've got your blade of grass in the distance when you're doing your drive, you've got your penalty, that point of impact. Are you kind of not focusing on the ball? As in, is it more you you're sort of almost free-forming it, you're now just go, you're in the rhythm of the of the motion, and you're sort of letting that automatic body control take over.
SPEAKER_00I think it's that, yeah. I think you can't, again, you can't really be thinking about your technique at that point. Yeah. It's too late for that. That's what training's for, that's what practice is for. So you just swing your swing or you you hit your shot.
SPEAKER_01I honestly think this is one of the biggest locks for amateur sportsmen, is that they haven't got the time to put in the practice beforehand. So then when they're in a really key moment where they're trying to beat their mate, they keep losing two, and it's starting to get more and more important that they get one back, they dial in on right, well, the coach said I should do this, this, this. They're getting really into almost the sort of the technique aspect. Golf is a rinness. The last thing you want to do when it is that important moment, that needs to be second nature embedded into your system, and in that moment, you're sort of more in flow and you're just focusing more on the rhythm. That's how I work in tennis.
SPEAKER_00But is that the same for you with your experience of golf? Golf, yeah. I think well, the most important thing in golf is the club face hitting the ball, and what most people focus on is this whole takeaway process where the club is above their head at like there, and then how they're transitioning down from the top of the swing, and they forget about hitting the ball. Like, that's the most, just square the club face up at the ball and hit it in the middle of the club, and you're gonna hit a good shot. So there's a massive like overcome. Now, obviously, you can optimise that through your swing to get it on the right plane, to get it on the right motion, to give you the best chance to marry that club against the ball.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But ultimately, it just matters about that final piece. And if you're worried about where your club is at the top of your backswing, and you're forgetting about actually hitting that ball, a lot of things are gonna go wrong. You're gonna top it, you're gonna duff it, you know what I mean? That's where you mishit it. You might have had a perfect looking swing. So maybe keep that for the driving range. If you can. Yeah. And like in annual practice swings. So like you usually would have like two or three practice swings before you address the ball. Sure. So have that as your and the pros do it as well. You see them do all sorts of weird stuff in their practice swing. And then they step to the ball, they forget about it, and they just hit the ball. But like those drills, like drills, and we do that, I do this in the gym sometimes with with clients, when we're exaggerating things so much. Like there's a big thing at the minute in our gym about cleans, because we've just done a competition that had cleans in, like power cleans, yeah. And that's a highly technical skill movement. And like when you're doing trying to get better at cleans, you're breaking that movement down into segments, yeah. Like the pull away from the ground, the triple extension through your joints, the hip drive, the shrug, the pull. Like you can't possibly address a hundred kilos and think about all those things and think that that's gonna work. Yeah, you just have to address the hundred kilos and rip it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But all the drills you've done prior to that lift has made sure that the sequencing is all right for that to be able to happen.
SPEAKER_01So you do that with a lighter weight, and then you can build up.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you do it with a lighter weight, you break the movement down. Like you'll just do the initial thing and you'll do reps and sets of the initial thing, and then and then you'll work up into shrugs, and then you'll go into a high pull, and then you'll start to work on your catch, and you just break up all these segments of the movement, and then once you're in the actual thing, you it goes. And that's like I think when you see practice shots before you hit the ball, especially with a professional game, they're like doing crazy stuff because they're just trying to drill one part that's missing in their game, yeah, and they'll do some weird swing in their in their practice and they'll address the ball and whack. And it's like, well, he didn't do that. Yeah, it's like, well, of course he didn't do that. Like, because he wouldn't hit the ball if he like was trying to, but he's just trying to get this like unlocking the thing that's not quite faring. And yeah, and then like drills exaggerate the thing so that when you do it in a in in a game or in a in an actual thing, you're taking maybe 10% of that drill to plug it in, compensating for the deficiency. And like with tennis, like you're gonna work, you might go in and have a lesson and just work on forehand, and you're just pinging these forehands, like, and by the end they're absolutely they're beautiful. Yes, basically. But the reality is you might hit in a whole tennis match, that exact same shot might never come.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it usually doesn't.
SPEAKER_00No, but you but you've you've hit that repetition so many times that if it does come, you're gonna hit a winner, or like it can relay into other parts of the game. Um so it's weird, it's like recreational golfers who never get any better, but they enjoy the game, like just go and enjoy the game. But you can't really address a ball.
SPEAKER_01Well, the thing is, I think the issue is a lot of recreational players, they still care. Like they still want to improve, don't they? And that and which is where it you know, that that's where I think it's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so if you want to improve, you have to practice. Yeah, I don't think you just go and play all the time and expect to get better. So you have to practice driving range, putting green, all that stuff, and uh, but then when you go and play, you have to play with as much freedom as possible. Like football, especially, is played on freedom, and you see that with performance. I'm a Man United fan now, and the difference in the team because they're playing with freedom is wild, and um any sport, any sport has to be played with freedom.
SPEAKER_01So, to that to that point, uh, if you've if you're uh an amateur golfer and you want to put a bit of work in and you want to focus on an area where you're gonna get an outside's return on the effort, say against someone else that you're playing with regularly, have you got any advice on areas of that game or things they can do and focus on to achieve that? Um I can give you an example. Go on. So, for example, in in tennis, your your cross-court shot should be your go-to shot because it's a longer distance across the court, the nets lur in the middle, yeah, it's a safer shot. And if you're sitting in rallies, just just get that cross-court routine, stay in there, and and that and most people don't have the patience, like patience will deliver outsized results, I think, in tennis, assuming that you've dialed in the ability to get the ball in in the right place. Yeah, um, but is there anything like that that translates across, do you think?
SPEAKER_00I would say don't worry about distance. Like, people get obsessed with how far they can get the ball because it's the most fun you can do, yeah. It's the pool driver and just bang it as far as you can. But like my mates who have gone from say 18, 20 handicappers down to like 10 have done it because like we we call it the nudger, like they just start nudging the ball rather than like trying to rip the ball, they'll hit a 7-iron from 150 yards rather than a pitching wedge. So play for consistency. And it's just like, yeah, because if you if you shorten your swing a little bit and you're going to there rather than here, the room for error is a lot smaller, the margin for error is a lot smaller. And if you're not trying to hit it as hard as you can and you're you're working on rhythm, the consistency of your shots will be massive in comparison to try and rip and hit like the all-timer shot every single time. So I yeah, so like now because I don't play as much, I honestly hard it's really sad because driving used to be a real advantage for me how far I can hit the ball, but now because it's so wild in terms of like dispersion is so wild, and I could lose a golf ball, and that's damaging for me school-wise. Yeah, like I I now like I go to the range a little bit, but it's mainly with my kids, and that's a whole different thing. I'm not there getting my alignment sticks out, and like you know, I'm just there trying to make sure they don't hit each other, and um but now I still like once a year I go away with my friends and play golf in these amazing places, and we like go to visit great courses, and you don't want to be hacking it around. No, so my thing now is like I'm just gonna shorten this game right up. Yeah, I will only hit driver if I really have to, and I'll just like make sure I'm in play play the whole time. And at least I've got a putt for par or like yeah, you know what I mean? I might not be hitting birdies, but it's not gonna be through off the T and in the water, and and you know what I mean? It's just like and it's enjoyable when you can be on the fairway and you can be like you know, stroking it about, it's so much more enjoyable than trying to find your ball in the roughery about so yeah, to your point about the cross court, it's probably just shorten the shorten the game up, like don't try and hit it 300 yards every time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, play within your ability, yeah, and your score will be like so much better. I'm banking that for the road because uh my golf is yeah, there's room for improvement. Yeah, um, right, let's do just a few quick fire questions just to finish that I think I don't know, it's always fun getting someone else's opinion on. A Zempic Wagovi, Wajovi. I don't know what that how how that's pronounced. And then what have you got, Manjaro? What are your thoughts as someone in the fitness space on these drugs?
SPEAKER_00And the reason I ask is this isn't going to be quick fire. This it's cast.
SPEAKER_01Probably not, is it? No. No, okay. Well we can do a slightly mid-phase.
SPEAKER_00There's no right answer to this.
SPEAKER_01No, so the reason I ask is I think that they obviously they like it's it's nuanced, isn't it? They've got their place, but it just slightly winds me up when I I put quite a lot of effort into trying to stay in shape and um you know eat healthily and all those things, and then I will just you can tell when someone's hit the shortcut, um, and as it's definitely a place for it, no question. But I feel I then feel guilty about feeling slightly irritated by it because I'm like, well, it's it's helping their health and all these other things. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00So I've got quite a lot of clients that take it. I would believe so. So I've had to obviously keep an open mind, which is the best thing to do, and ask questions. Um and the reason it's not a short answer because you're probably right, it depends on the person taking it. So it's a drug, there's risks on taking drugs. We probably don't know all of those risks right now because it's you know it's early days, it's early days on mass use, yeah. Right? Um, and with any drug, if the reward outweighs the risk, maybe it's worth taking it. Yeah. And for a lot of people who are really obese and have limitations and health uh issues because of their weight, maybe it's a good option for them. Yeah. And um the psychology of people who are overweight that I've learned through people taking GLP1 is nuts. Like I've learned more about um because what you don't realize, or what a lot of people don't realise, is overweight, I've trained overweight people 10 years, right? Not just, but like part of my job, get people to lose weight. They lie. And that's not like, and I know they lie because everyone who has tried to lose weight and then started taking GLP1 has lost suddenly and will suddenly admit, yeah, I can't believe how much I was eating before. Yeah. But when they were doing that, they would say, I eat really healthy, I don't understand why I'm not losing weight. And it's and it's really hard to use a. By the way, that is no calorie tracking. I'm not trying to offend them, right? I'm just going through what I've observed and the conversations I've had with people that are now taking it and are obviously losing weight. They the psychology of eating is so much more than the actual eating itself. And so the food noise, they call it food noise, where you and I, well, I can speak for myself. Like, I'll eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I'll probably have a snack or something like that in between, but I'm not like thinking about food all the time. Or I'm not seeing a chocolate over there and thinking, gotta resist, gotta resist. Yeah. Yeah. But food noise is such a real thing and a psychological thing for people that are overweight because they are on the whole, they've got a big appetite, right? Because they've been used to eating a certain amount of calories over a certain amount of time, their bodies become used to that. They also have this huge complex about not eating it. Yeah. So then that food noise becomes louder. That chocolate sat over there is louder. Literally chatting to me. I can't eat that. I can't eat that. Yeah. Like, I can't eat it. It's an emotional, like, so that, so what GLP1 does is just switches that off. Yeah. Like straight away, it switches that off. There's no food noise, you're not hungry, so there's no food noise. You're not even thinking about it. You have to actually force yourself to eat on GLP1. And what they learn about themselves in the conversation I'm having with people on it, is like, I cannot believe how much I used to eat. Because I just never stopped thinking about food.
SPEAKER_01Well, you don't it's not.
SPEAKER_00And even though I was like, yeah, I just have a handful of nuts, or like, like, I have a bit of chocolate oil, it all accumulates into overeating, yeah, which is why they can't lose weight. And so what GOP1 does is switch that all off. And people have said the words life-changing to me more than I care to admit on GLP1. Yeah. And it isn't because of the physical, it's because of the mental. Yeah. It's because it switched that food noise off. They're able to actually get on with their lives without like constantly having an internal battle about eating. They're able to make better choices on eating because it isn't like cravings and it isn't all of this. So, so for some people that are sat over here, I've seen a massive positive effect on their life. Like, like life-changing stuff. Like people who are obese, have like health conditions because of their weight, to now running marathons, doing high rocks, climbing mountains, right? Have they managed to come off it? Yeah. So I've had two clients that have really successfully come off of it. And this is another key education piece that people need to be aware of. Is like, if we as trainers know that people are on it, we can help them come off it. If we don't know, we've got no chance. Yeah. Literally no chance. So come clean. You've got to come clean. Yeah. And I I've I know people are on it, and I've asked them if they're on it, and they lie because they're embarrassed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like, I think there's a lot of people come on with it. There's so many. And like, if you don't admit that to me, especially if I'm trying to look after you as a client, like I can't help you. Yeah. And like the way in which it works, in terms of like you take it once a week, the few days after that, you're pretty much not eating anything. Like you you feel sick at the thought of food. So your energy is so low, right? And I was training someone who I was they they shouldn't have been on it, right? They weren't overweight. It was a vanity thing, they wanted to lose a few pounds, and they were on it, and I know they were on it because their friend or friend of theirs told me they were on it, but they would lie to me that they're on it, and I would train them, they feel sick halfway through the session. We're doing like compound lifts or whatever, and they just like have to stop. Compound lift with no food in the system. They got no energy, they like, and so if I knew that, I'd adapt session, yeah, and I'd plan accordingly and would and then like so. First of all, you're getting no value out of my sessions because you're feeling sick halfway through and we've got to pull the plug. Second of all, I can't help you like with what you are eating or give you some advice on what you should be eating. Because I've I've read so much about this, because it's as a trainer, like it's gonna be the biggest thing that we have come up against. Yeah. No, I've come up against, just just as our clients will have it as an option to lose weight, we need to know about it. And so if I know about it, if my team know about it, we can help you. If we don't know about it, we can't help you. Yeah, so my take on it is if the reward out outweighs the risk, great. I would say for probably only 20% of people that are on it, that is the case. Yeah, and then how quickly can we get you off it? And we can only get you off it quick if we know you're on it and you're willing to work with us on that. Yeah. And I think there's a massive opportunity in our sector to help people on GLP1. But the shame is, and I get why people's opinions are like this, but the more we shame it and the more we say, I can't understand it, and I think it's a cop-out, the more people are gonna lie, and the more shame there'll be around it, and the harder it will be for those people to come off it.
SPEAKER_01I I don't have any issue with people doing it. I just still slightly I'm I'm almost like slightly envious.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I mean like I wouldn't be, mate. I wouldn't be able to do it. There's it's not all glory. Like it's okay, they lose weight, but they stop eating nice food, they stop being able to join it. People go out for birthday meals and they sit there and look at their food and they can't eat. Yeah, it's it's still a sacrifice. Yeah, it's not all okay, it is it's basically just a hormone that switches off all the food noise, and it allows you to not be hungry and not have appetite. And that sounds great. I do I freaking love my food.
SPEAKER_01And I also think it's gonna bring more people into health and wellness. Because ultimately, oh my god, like it's gonna fuel, it's not gonna take because you could think, oh, there's an alternative to going to the gym, I can take GLP1.
SPEAKER_00So I would love to say that FitLife supports people in GLP1, but I don't because that backlash could be huge. Yeah, and also what I mean by that is is we can help people on GLP1 come off of GLP1. Yeah. And um, like that's my goal, is like I will never ever say to any of my clients if they told me, even if I don't agree with them taking it, how dare you do that? You're you're cheating, you're I don't think I'd be just be like, right, well, how can we best support this so we don't have to take that drug?
SPEAKER_01I don't think it I actually don't think it would be that uh controversial to to sort of for for gyms more openly to have have GLP1 management programs kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm going to a um conference expo tomorrow called Perform X.
SPEAKER_01I'll see you there.
SPEAKER_00Are you going?
SPEAKER_01Thursday. You're going tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm going tomorrow now. So um last year I went and I heard a talk with so it was trends, future trends, right? I go to every year. And last year they did this whole thing and no one mentioned it until the very end when the Gymbox guy, who's quite controversial dude, um said, Why have we not spoken about Manjaro or his MPEG, GOP1? This was February last year, where it's still a bit like, oh, no one's really heard of this thing. Yeah. Or certainly in like the masses like we do. Sure, not mainstream. And he was like, It guys, if we do not talk about this, it's a massive issue. If we keep like what I've said, if we keep pushing people away, it's a massive issue. Everyone needs to be taking this seriously, needs to learn about it, needs to understand its benefits, its risks, and all of that so that we can help support our clients. And I came way back, I bought like loads of books on it and read up just on that. They didn't even discuss it off that. There's an entire one-hour talk tomorrow about GLP1.
SPEAKER_01That's a quick change in one year, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because it's this wave of hardware.
SPEAKER_01And I think it's an opportunity for the whole industry to bring in new. And I'm not the first person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because these people now that have lost 20-30 kilos are now suddenly confident to walk into a gym, whereas previously didn't think it was for them. So there is an opportunity. Um, and I just I encourage anyone that does use it just to be honest about it because it's really hard otherwise.
SPEAKER_01I'm laughing because that I that that's just not a quick fire question at all. I'm gonna scrap that off the list a few years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not. Okay, two quick fire questions then. You and these are just sort of more specific to you, but you can only do five exercises for the rest of your life. What would you go for?
SPEAKER_00Um do you count like running as that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whatever we can go cardio, we can go straight.
SPEAKER_00Running number one for me. Just mind mindfulness, head space, more for mental gains, full package, cardiovascular health, whatever. So running. Um I would do front squats. That's niche. Not back squats. Why would you do front or back? So front squats are like biomechanically a much better movement than back. Um just like spine angle, you get way more core engagement.
SPEAKER_01Um they're flipping hard, aren't they?
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, so tech so technically they're hard. Yeah. Once you unlock the front rack and can get comfortable in a front rack, they're not hard. I do can't lift as heavy, usually it's about 10% less. But like most athletes do front squats and not back. Like they're just I need to bring they're just a better lift.
SPEAKER_01I need to bring them back into my game.
SPEAKER_00Okay, carry. In my opinion. So front squats. Yeah. Trap bar deadlift.
SPEAKER_01Trap bar deadlift. Why the trap bar instead of the uh barbell?
SPEAKER_00Uh again, for me, it's more about the position of the body and the distribution of load. So obviously, deadlift conventional deadlift, barbell, forward.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's fine if you're technically very sound, but I think for longevity, trap bar would be superior. Forgiving. You're still working hip hinge, but you're also getting a bit more quad in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um upper back, yeah, trap bar for me. Um pull-ups.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00And it's tough.
SPEAKER_01What if you want? Four?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's really tough. So I need now an upper body push.
SPEAKER_01You need something that's going to do shit.
SPEAKER_00So I've done squat, hinge, pull. Yeah. I need a push, and I probably would go four. I'm either going incline dumbbell press.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or I'm going barbell over strict press. I'm going to go incline dumbbell press.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a good choice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's giving you shoulders a bit chested in there. A little bit of shoulders. Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_00I just worry about range of motion then from struggles, but because I'm going pull-ups. Yeah, I think I'll go incline dumbbell press.
SPEAKER_01Okay, running. What's yours, James? Front rack. Oh, he's got me good. Yeah, it's a horrible question, isn't it? Now you've spun it the other way. I it's hard not to include running just because it's just so it's just yeah, all round, yeah. Good one, and it's easy and enjoyable. Um I would definitely go incline press because I think you've got the coverage across shoulders and chest. I'm and I'm gonna from that, once you've got the running coverage, I'm leaning more into strength training. Yeah, yeah. Um I would have also said deadlift, but I'm not going to because my back is pretty fragile. Yeah, I think what's what I was asking, I'm thinking I've got to get off the barber. Um so yeah, I it's a good choice, isn't it? I often I started shifting away from compound movements because of the question marks over my back. So I would have chucked in a row, but then if you've got a uh you've got your pull up in that, I would definitely glue pull up wide arm. That pull uh pull up. Um what I'm on, I'm on three. It's really hard to argue with what you said because you've done good solid compound movements.
SPEAKER_00Um lunges would be a shout, though.
SPEAKER_01Lunges is a shout, and I I tell I I would I actually do lunges more than I do the squats again because of my back, and it's just got the weight below the spine, so it just feels a little bit less less brutal. Lunges is a good shout, actually. I'll go lunge. Um I think I've got one more. Have I got one more? Running. Have you got my lunges? I've got my incline pull up. Uh ba ba. You've done a hinge which I haven't really done. Yeah, I mean, it's probably mad not to do some kind of deadlift maybe. So I might include your uh yeah. Your what is it, your bar, your shifty bar, your trap bar. Trap bar. Yeah, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, lunge though. I I don't know. Yeah, we could go talk about it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's quick five. Done well to shift away from the floor. Last one. Go on. Favourite guilty food when no one's watching. Oh, I don't mind if people watch. Because you are.
SPEAKER_00I see your meals and they are clean at the moment. Yeah, but I do let it go sometimes. So what? I can only eat one thing. Or is it cheap meals? Is it cheap? Yeah, you're like your when So I'm a big like biscuity cake guy. Are you? Right, and this so we did a comp the other day and it was like a picnic, right? Because it was like all day uh, four workouts, all day long, 30 of us, people just making food and bringing it. And this girl, this this is gonna so weird because it was like a kid food, but it was a jammy dodger blondie. Anyway, she made so many that I took a load home for the boys and I just rinsed the whole lot. Yeah, that sounds like I mean I ate like masses. But blondies are problematic, aren't they? Honestly, that was like that so right now that, and that is when no one's watching because it was meant to be for my kids. Yeah, and I'm like, these are too good for them. Well, yeah, they're not gonna appreciate this. So I'm like, I like hid them all, and I'm just like pounding one a day at the minute.
SPEAKER_01I can't talk about the number of times I buy treats for the kids, and then I tell them I've got them, they forget to eat it for pudding, yeah, and then I like to accidentally.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you slip it in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all of that stuff, like Blondie's brownies, like I'm on croissants, I absolutely love. Um that sort of like I'm a big kind of like tray bakey croissant.
SPEAKER_01What's your what's your body fat percentage at the moment?
SPEAKER_00Don't I haven't done it for a long time. I would say it's eight, seven, or eight.
SPEAKER_01It's crazy. I don't know how I was four when I was playing football. Yeah, I'd be dead. Well, I wouldn't be. Um but yeah. Wild. Last uh last thing, two last things. One, I've got some more kit for you. Two, um, what are you working on? You've got the academy. Is there anything that we should be talking about? What that you're excited about, or anything up and coming that you want to mention?
SPEAKER_00So with FitLife, I think I've learned the hard way that scaling a gym with bricks and mortars is really tough. Scaling a gym business, bricks and mortars are really tough. I think you need so much backing, so much runway of cash to make that work. Um people can do it, but you you just need to be a big player, I think. So what I'm turning my attention to is yes, I I want had them to be the best gym in the UK. Like, first of all, so like we're gonna reinvest in it, we're gonna make it a thing. Like that, honestly, like, and I think we were there like when we first opened, and like worlds moved on. You've done quite a lot of work on it recently. Yeah, but like we're like putting plaster over bullet rolls, like it need it's been 10 years, like we need to do it. So you want a facelift. So facelift, I want to just make that like I hate saying how it used to be, because it isn't how it used to be, it's different. No, you're just moving with the time. Yeah. Um do you have a time scale on that? End of the year? Okay. So we've got like nine months. So it's ten years, it needs it needs work, but not just work, it's exciting. It needs to be better than it's ever been before.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The academy excites me beyond like I can really say because like so. We've had the academy since the very beginning. Lawrence, who's like a close friend of mine, worked at Fit Life the whole time, he's a teacher as well. Yeah, he's a wizard with kids, and we've had the academy for teenagers forever, and we've had so many success rates. I mean, some of the teenagers that went through in the original days are now in their 20s and late, late 20s, and they're still come to the gym five days a week. It's like what we do with the academy is fast track people like me and you who know the benefits of excise and we install it into teenagers, which isn't just sport, which is what it usually is, but we are without like banging this drum, we make them feel that from such a young age. And it's like they want to be fit and healthy.
SPEAKER_01It's an education piece. I didn't get until I was much, much older. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I mean it, you know, times have changed, but well, you either play sport, you don't. And we're trying to reframe that and give children and teenagers a great platform for health and fitness for the rest of their life. And I think that would like as like a purpose, like that would correct so many issues in the world. I agree. Um so are you targeting more schools? Because obviously you're in with so obviously with us at a gym, we can only get 12 people in a session. Like, it's not very we can't, and we're sold out most of the time. And so we now have approached schools, and we've we started off with private schools. There seems to be less red tape and less like definitely, there's more sort of oh yeah, you can do that, and you're in the next day. But getting into them is quite hard. So we're in Ashfold, which is a local private school. We we've got convers really good conversations going with a few more. Um, and that's first of all to be an after-school club, um, uh, because that's like a low barrier of entry for us to do that. Outside of curriculum time, and parents will pay, so for the schools, it's no easy. But our grand sort of goal would be in school time to be able to deliver this as part of the curriculum, or um yeah, to just educate more children on the academy and uh and what our purpose is with that, which is really exciting. Super exciting. Um retreats. Yeah. So we hosted our first retreat last year, it was amazing, like so cool. And I think there is a massive need for the wellness community now to shift into that. Wellness is huge, and um it's great to have wellness in everyday life, but what we experienced on that thing about harvesting that across a weekend was incredible.
SPEAKER_01I we have a problem in this house, my wife and I, and that we both want to go. Yeah. And then obviously arranging care. Just neither of us end up going. Yeah, yeah. And it's just stupid, we need to sort that basically.
SPEAKER_00But so I want Jess to go more than I want me to go this time. Yeah. And so I'm trying to honestly send her and have me look after kids because I think ev I think everyone needs a weekend in their calendar. I agree. Maybe not even with their partner, because it's like Oh, I thought you meant not with the partner. Yeah, like like go without your partner because like just focus on yourself for 48, 72 hours, whatever it might be, that the whole weekend is not about drinking or like you know what I mean. Like, if you go away with your mates, that's a completely different gig. Or girls go away, it often revolves around unhealthy food, drinking, yeah, like social. But honestly, it is transformative when you have this and some and with people you don't know, so you're creating connection with like-minded people that you're which is really daunting, but like it was such an eye-opener for me to see what happened on that weekend. Um, in beautiful places that you want to go to. Are you sold out for is it September? We just sold our last room, but we have the option to add more houses.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, so we've got three beach houses that we've just sold out for Fit Life, but I want to partner other gyms. Yeah. So my goal is to like make this a thing that we can, or communities, so it doesn't have to be gym, but people that have got ready-build communities that we go in. So I started a company called Rome, um, and that's a retreat-based business, basically. And we could go into businesses and host retreats for for corporates, yeah. Or we could host retreats. What I would like to do with gyms, where we're the gym partner, and they promote it to their membership, and we go and run those for them. Um, what's your what's your what's the Instagram handle for that? Is it Rome? Rome Retreat. Retreat. Yeah. Um we need to up that. It's kind of been on an internal publicization yet. The Instagram's got like three posts on it. Um, but yeah, so so yeah, it's basically four communities that are ready built and engaged in that space, and then bring in them who vaguely know each other, they're like-minded to a retreat for the weekend. Um, we're hoping that that will that will grow. Um, so they're the two main areas, and then with gyms, my goal now is to kind of partner up rather than landlord, rent, and all that kind of way. It's like there's definitely a shift towards like rural farms and these places that have uh like cafes, restaurants, you know, commercializations of rural areas, which is happening. And I think there's a big opportunity there for these people to have a fitness offering there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the easy plug-in, the easy plug-in would be like, oh, we'll rent a barn to you, and away you go. And I think I think what it needs is like if you look at kind of a Dalesford or or this where it's all under one umbrella, I'd like to partner and help landowners generate revenue for themselves with a fitness offering. Yeah, so kind of like that as well. So there's a lot, a lot of things that I'm thinking of. Primarily it's Fit Life still, yeah. Um and then it's trying to, yeah, like those real passions of mine: wellness, retreats, academy, and then having more gyms available to more people, but not necessarily in the way that I thought was gonna happen. Yeah. Can I just talk about Pro Aura?
SPEAKER_01Can I you hold on, hold on, hold the phone, because I have. I wasn't just gonna cut you short. These are for you. Am I giving that the right way around? It didn't happen. Look at the wrong way around. Beautiful. Um, yeah, I said I'd get you a few more bits. I actually didn't get you the outfit I was wearing the other day, but so nice. Oh mate. I love this combo. Wow. Um, he's not even on the wall, damn it. Anyway, it's the it's what our model was wearing on the homepage.
SPEAKER_00Um, it's so good.
SPEAKER_01So you you got here then couldn't look like him, which I try to do daily. Um, so these are you breathed, yeah, but they're really nice, soft um pencil, like a gun deck, it's lovely. And then this is our it's called our performance tea, so it's the men's tea. Nice. Um and then down here we've got um our men's torque. So yeah, you've got a you've at least got a something to get you out of the block.
SPEAKER_00Can I just say, like, it's it's such a a beautiful thing. And what I want to say to you is like, and you Gemma, who's behind camera. We obviously went on holiday, what, two years ago, two and a half years ago? Yeah, yeah. Together. It's an amazing time, and I just all I just keep coming back to that moment that we had a little chat about it, didn't we? When you were like still in the thick of your job and you told me about this and you've made it happen. And like, I can't tell you how incredible that is.
SPEAKER_01I'd love to say it didn't take two years, but no, but it's better than it did.
SPEAKER_00It's a lot of work. Saying it's better than it did because like you haven't cut any corners with it, and you've done like exactly I remember you saying I want to create a you said men's at the time, men's clothing brand. Yeah, we got the cat for the professional era. That's it. And um I thought that is like genius because I I've told you I'm sick of wearing hoodies and baggy buggers, and like I want I wear gym gear every single day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I'm nearly 40 now. You know, I can't just wear Gymshark stuff all the time. Doesn't really suit my how I think. It's such a good thing.
SPEAKER_01So this is like a beautiful it's obviously super competitive, but I you know, we felt like there's there's loads of players, but there's loads of players solving for cost mostly because they've got you know venture capital and all the rest, and and we're not we're not tied to that, we're playing different games, so we can actually focus on the product and the colour and yeah, just trying to make you feel like it's gonna make the workout better, basically, and enjoy it more. But I really appreciate all the kind words, and you've been a bit more.
SPEAKER_00But but not even that, like for me, like I think the women's space, the women's clothes is absolutely beautiful, and the unisex stuff you do is amazing, but I feel like the women's space is is kind of been like nailed with they can wear it to the drop-off. If I wear gym gear to school drop-off, I feel like a bit of a tramp. You know what I mean? Yeah, you feel a bit like baggy hoodie, like, and then you chuck this stuff on, and it's like you feel like you don't need to get changed to go and do anything else. You can wear it. I agree, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And obviously that was part of part of the solution process, but uh but yeah, thank you. You're saying all the right stuff. Unprompted as well as it's like. That's beautiful, and this is amazing. Um Steve, thank you so much for being our first guest on the podcast and for speaking with such honesty and candor. Um, it's been absolutely fascinating getting into the challenges of your professional interests, and it's no surprise at all that you've managed to cram so many careers into uh one lifetime. So in short, really appreciate having you on and thank you so much.