PRO | ORA PODCAST
A podcast exploring the lives of remarkable people in their professional era. The pivotal years where discipline, purpose and identity converge. Honest conversations with those shaping their craft, their character and their impact.
PRO | ORA PODCAST
Ep 3 - Louise & Jos Buttler
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PRO | ORA founders Gemma and James sit down with England cricketer Jos Buttler and Louise Buttler, founder of el be Pilates. They talk honestly about what it takes to run two high pressure careers and a family at the same time, the trade-offs, the logistics, and what actually holds it together.
Take one.
SPEAKER_05You've done that before.
SPEAKER_01I have actually.
SPEAKER_05That was his moment. That was his moment.
SPEAKER_01Right, are you gonna tear off?
SPEAKER_03No, I thought you were. He often doesn't realise like what he does, or he never sees it from our point of view. And when I'm sat in a stadium, you know, in the IPL final like a few weeks ago, and he's in front of a hundred thousand people and he's won World Cups, he's lost World Cups, he's Captain England. I think imagine as a seven-year-old boy looking at yourself.
SPEAKER_01But you're always pretending you're gonna be someone great. Do you feel the next generation come through? Is it getting more and more competitive?
SPEAKER_06And the mentality I think of youngsters is so different now. They're fearless.
SPEAKER_05What are you doing in your life to mentor someone coming up behind you?
SPEAKER_06I've probably had labelled at me sometimes as I look a bit grumpy and not that approachable.
SPEAKER_00So I try and just in bitch face, I get that all the time.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so that's why why does no one ever ask my advice? Is that because you look grumpy?
SPEAKER_01Cricket in the media, constant scrutiny, getting a fair uh fairly tough time at the moment.
SPEAKER_06It's good to see yourself through other people's eyes occasionally.
SPEAKER_01The other great lesson I learned from there was are there any relationships that you maybe lost in the pursuit of your success?
SPEAKER_03Just mean. It's a mean trust. But I do think that you can't like say yes to everyone anymore.
SPEAKER_06Like there's it justified everything I'd ever put into my cricket.
SPEAKER_03I always remember Josh saying to me about 10 years ago and it's something that really sticks me with me.
SPEAKER_06You know, it's only that guilt comes out. You'll be lying in a bed, a hotel room somewhere, and then you're like, what am I doing? Like why why am I doing this?
SPEAKER_03Um last week I actually launched a new programme called Elder Mummer.
SPEAKER_06Personally, I I wouldn't have the balls to do it on my own and have a vision and go for it.
SPEAKER_03Um I have to pretty much be front and centre on a stage, tell my story.
SPEAKER_06My issue is that I'm in my 40s.
SPEAKER_01It does turn 40.
SPEAKER_05Well, I hear that the 40s will have yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Business, family life, just constant. We're very enjoyable. James, when are you gonna go and go and do something?
SPEAKER_04That's so true. You work together without you. Even in the middle of the night. I thought something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, we do a lot of that.
SPEAKER_01Hello, and welcome back to the Pro Aura Podcast. Um, today we have some super exciting guests. Uh about three, maybe four weeks ago now, we um ran a little event for founders in the health and wellness space. Uh the home of Louise Butler's LB Pilates. Um Louise is married to Josh Butler, England cricketer. And we thought it would be a really nice opportunity, one, to do a bit of a workout with all the founders that came along and to sort of share our experiences and uh war stories from running our businesses and trying to balance uh all the challenges of uh life in and amongst that. So we filmed the event, uh, asked some questions, we used um symbolics and uh conversation cards and messages to help uh shimmy things along um and try and get into some more depth with everyone. Um but today we are just going to uh play the uh conversation that we had specifically with Josh and Louise. Um they are fascinating, super humble, disarming, just delightful, couple, completely and utterly uh unfazed by the trappings of success. And it was a massive pleasure to sit down and talk to them, but also who is needless to say, away a huge amount with credit. Um so um here is the conversation.
SPEAKER_05Right, I'm gonna start with this one, and I for both of you actually. So Lou, I'm gonna start with you. Was there a moment in your career where you said to yourself, I've made it?
SPEAKER_03You know what? There's not a specific moment where I thought, I've made it. I feel like there's quite a few times and I thought, ah, I feel like that's gone really well.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And surprised myself. Um I think a lot of things that you do then builds up to a moment which you feel quite proud of. So last week I actually launched a new program called El Be Mama, and it's specifically for pre- and post-natal women. Um and I think now I've had three children I feel really, really um passionate about supporting women during that stage. And last week it was the first time that I did an event and I had influence there. I worked with a PR team, it was in London. I felt like I had to pretty much be front and centre on a stage, tell my story, and that moment of feeling like, oh, all those moments over the last six years have now brought me to this. So I yeah, I think possibly that's a highlight, but like I think there are all these moments that then build it to then that felt like a time that yeah, it felt.
SPEAKER_01This is kind of like stepping stones as well, isn't it? In the sense that you have probably a moment like that. More than likely will be another moment in the next whatever time frame, obviously your life has pretty much been dictated by just massive explosive moments.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, along the way, you sometimes don't realise that then in that room that I'd formed and and built relationships over the last five years, that suddenly they're there supporting you. That you then think, oh, like all of that brought me to here. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06That's good to see see yourself through other people's eyes occasionally as well. So for you, that's uh this big moment, and you're you're taking that in. But if you know, for me seeing it, I was like, wow, Louisa's in Sloan Square in London running this event, all these people are here for you. So to see it through my eyes, you know, that feels like a moment where you've made it. Even sitting in this studio uh feels like a made-it moment, I would say, for you know, because personally I I wouldn't have the the balls to do it on my own and have a vision and go for it. And yeah, when we moved to this house, you know, you had this, I'm gonna build a studio, I'm gonna run a business, and I couldn't I can't let see it. I I'm not brave enough to actually like go for it uh as you are, and you're so optimistic, and and I'm now like, wow, we're sat in this studio and you run a business and all those things. So I think it's really good to see yourself through through other people's eyes sometimes, and just to give yourself a bit of turn that around to him as well.
SPEAKER_03But just to give he, you know, he often doesn't realise like what he does, or he never sees it from our point of view. And when I'm sat in a stadium, you know, in the IPL final a few weeks ago, and he's in front of a hundred thousand people.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03Or he's playing in a World Cup final, yeah. Yeah, and he's won World Cups, he's lost World Cups, he's Captain England. I think imagine it's a seven-year-old boy looking at yourself in 20 years' time.
SPEAKER_01It's not when you're seven time. Is it you're not thinking, oh I'm gonna. I mean, I know some people are, because they're some of these through the woods, I'm gonna be the best in the world, but you're dreaming.
SPEAKER_06Is that the case for you? Uh sort of. Actually, not really with England. It was for me, it was all about Somerset. So I grew up in Somerset. We were close enough to the professional ground, we went and watched loads of so uh that was sort of, I could see it in front of me, that was where I wanted to be. And then I think the England stuff sort of came later as I, you know, got um close to that. But you're always pretending you're gonna be someone great in the garden uh and you're playing, and you talk about like moments where you think you've made it. For me, that was the 2019 World Cup when we we won that, and it was sort of it justified everything I'd ever put into my cricket, all the sacrifice that I'd made, all the sacrifice that you know my parents had taxied me from here, there, and everywhere, and it sort of made it all feel worth it and as if you've made it. But the other great lesson I learned from there was I assumed that for the rest of my cricket career after that, I'd just be riding this wave. I wouldn't feel pressure anymore, I wouldn't be bothered as much about results or that kind of thing. And a week later it's like, oh my god, yeah, I'm having the same feelings. Like I had this, you know, this uh peak of the mountain, which I thought would just you know dissipate any anxieties I'd ever have again playing cricket, but you know, you're straight back into it. So you you have these major moments, but then whether you win, whether you lose, the next day you've got to go and do the same stuff, you know, you knuckle down, work hard.
SPEAKER_05Well, I wonder if anyone ever has that real moment of, yeah, I've made it. This this is it. Because if you're a professional sports person or a founder of a business, where does it end? Where does it end?
SPEAKER_03Surely there's always that drive to keep going, and and you're always like, you know, you're being put in front of new people, you're having to there are new challenges that you have to take on, you're constantly like pivoting and having to do different things with different people. So it's always it's every day, I feel like is a is a learning day or school day.
SPEAKER_01Just to that point with where you're at now, do you feel the next generation coming through? Is it getting more and more competitive? So when I look at tennis, for example, just these young guys coming through. I can't imagine how daunting it would be to try and compete with just the youngsters, they're just incredible. And I guess it's the same across probably all sports, just the competition is just constantly getting better and better.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, definitely. And the mentality I think of youngsters is so different now. They're fearless, absolutely fearless. They're not overawed by occasion straight away. Whereas I would say back in the day it was like you sort of ease your way in, and you'd be nervous and you sort of try and come through it. They see they don't seem to see that, they just fly straight out the blocks. And and actually, as an older player, it's cool because it pushes you on again. Yeah, it's like uh you're like breathing down your neck, yeah. They inspire you to try and reinvent yourself a little bit and and be a little bit different. But again, to that point, you know, don't forget that they're looking at you in uh in that light of wow, I'd love to get to their stage. Uh yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05But actually brings me on to another question I wanted to ask on this card.
SPEAKER_01Secondary queen.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no, it's connected. Um, what are you doing in your life to mentor someone coming up behind you? Which is basically what we're already talking about. So I feel like you've sort of seen a very clear way of how you can help some of those.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, and you're doing it sometimes without even realizing. Yeah. I think just by being a good role model, being a pair of ears a lot of the time for a younger player to sort personally, you're sort of sometimes quite worried about you know, saying, telling them I know all the answers and I've seen everything. This is how it is. You you know, you're listen to me, you'll learn. Whereas no, I'm just sharing an experience. You may or may not uh get it, and sometimes you actually talk to someone, and it might not be for 12 months that it go, oh right, I get it. What they were talking about back then, yeah. You know, it's just sort of played out in front of them, and and they realise. So I think just trying to be a good role model, you can do that a lot by actions, just yeah, being a really good professional, training well, doing the right stuff. You know, you like I said, you're doing that without realizing your mentoring, and then just trying to be available. It's something I've probably had labelled at me sometimes as I look a bit grumpy and not that approachable.
SPEAKER_00So I try and just in bitch face, I get that all.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so that's me as well. So I try and tell the younger players, like honestly, I I am open to having a chat and a conversation.
SPEAKER_01I might look grumpy, but um I think that's a healthy just in case.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, why is why is no one ever asking my advice? It's like trumpy. So uh yeah, just trying to make sure that they know your failure.
SPEAKER_01Do you obviously cricket in the media, constant scrutiny, getting a fair uh fairly tough time at the moment, probably. Does that do you feel like a lot of sympathy for the team? How do you how does it what's it like looking in, knowing what it's like, but also maybe it comes with the territory? I don't know.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I think there's a little bit of that. It comes with the territory. There's obviously some great things that exposure and social media has given players and the platform and the awareness now of cricket and how it's um you know just the growth, but obviously it comes with added pressures, it comes with scrutiny. I do think I feel like I was quite lucky at the stage I started my career that Instagram hadn't really started, Twitter was so I I was never really I didn't have to grow up with that. It's all too late, yeah. But like I just think um, yeah, but a lot of the young players they're so into it, right? And they they read every comment, they want to know, and suddenly there's you know great stuff that happens, and you're reading all this positive news, and you know how great you are, and then suddenly you know how fickle it can be, and it switches. So it's quite difficult for players, the young players especially to try and balance that out. And I think I'm at that stage now where I can I still get affected at times, but it I do have a at arm's length, I would say. And Louise is really good for for me in that space and about just keeping me honest about you know, does that really matter what someone says? And then kids like they don't care if your score runs or not, like they just want you to be a good dad and be available, and that kind of gives you a nice perspective. So um, yeah, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, I think. There's there's huge positives to that social media and and that stuff, but there's some pitfalls to be aware of, I think.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I think having kids, we've always said, it's just being one of the biggest turning points in perspective in so many areas, and what we're saying about you know what you do and follow by example. We all know that with as soon as you have kids, they're not gonna listen, they don't do what you say, they do what you do. And I think it's the same for adults as well. We just we need to have kids to give us that perspective. But it is far better, I think, to lead by example and you know pave the way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um so success often comes at a price, and one of those is the relationships we lose along the way. Are there any relationships or a certain person that you maybe lost in the pursuit of your success? I feel like this is mean.
SPEAKER_05It's a mean traction.
SPEAKER_01Trevor Burrus, I'm still um, but uh it could be more broadly speaking, but um obviously when you start your own thing, it can yeah, you sort of have to focus in.
SPEAKER_03I think we're definitely in a season that it's really hard to keep up with everyone, and you know, I think back to the last ten years of who my like closest friends were, and and actually, do you know what my closest friends are still my closest friends because we've we've sort of been on a journey sitting similar time where we've both you know, we've all been kind of pursuing careers, having children. But I do think that you can't like say yes to everyone anymore. Like there's yeah, there's priorities that you know for me. I feel like you know, when I think of you know, I'm such a people's person, I love people, and my network is big, yeah, and I can't keep everyone happy, otherwise I'm not keeping myself happy. And you know, I think you then realise I definitely feel like I'm in a moment now that I'm like, what is the most important thing to me? The most important thing is my family and um and my business, and so you do have to say no and sacrifice, but I always remember Josh saying to me about 10 years ago, and it's something that really sticks to me with me, is that if you're saying no to something, you're actually saying yes to something else. So, okay, you might be saying no to that party, but you might be saying yes to okay, you're having a night in with the children, and you might have been working really hard this week and you haven't had that time with them. So it's just like yeah, I think relationships is like you know, it's quite cliche, but it's like you know, people who don't get it, like you have to you have to kind of be okay with that and be like you know, you can't you can't give every and the people who will be there for you will and who understand will be there for you and understand, yeah. Um but I think running a business like you know, you guys do there's always there's always something to do, there's always something else to do. It's like how can how we're like you never switch off. Yeah, and that's something that I do find difficult, is that you know, when I know something needs to be done and I but I may have said yes to a plan with somebody, it's like what is more important, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um you've got your principles, and then your quickly health, yeah, like your mental health.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. Yeah, so yeah, um, but I think in this moment in time, I actually always like try and think about this is it is definitely a chapter of the children being young, the business probably being big the busiest it's ever's gonna be. Yeah, and it's gonna there's gonna be a time when you'll come out of that, and then you will probably reconnect with those people who possibly were in a different season, and definitely we'll we'll probably catch up and we'll get into our forties and everything will successful. Hopefully.
SPEAKER_05We tell ourselves that on a daily basis, and I don't know if that's the my issue is that I'm in my 40s.
SPEAKER_03So just turn things fully in. Well, I hear that the 40s are the best year, yeah. And also, I mean, I sometimes say that's to Jos because he's away for you know 80% of the year, you know, like since the 18th of December, he's only spent seven nights in our bed. So it's a long time. So then when he comes back, and I feel like I've seen a lot of people, but then I feel like we've done a lot where we haven't done it together. So then I think, oh, should we be seeing lots of people when together? But then Josh says to me, No, let's just let's have family time.
SPEAKER_06Let's have family time because I think it's that priorities, and I think as you said, people do understand if they know good friends and people who matter, they they understand that it's important for us to spend time together. As much as I've been away and not seen friends, uh that's the cost of success, is is time with with your wife, with your children, and I think that's probably the biggest cost of success that I've I've felt is exactly that time, you know, missing important milestones. You know, when the children are young and they don't quite understand, it's sort of a bit easier, but they're just getting to a stage where you know Georgia, our eldest, was really sad that I wasn't gonna be at home for her birthday. And it's the first year that she's sort of said that.
SPEAKER_01How old is she?
SPEAKER_06Uh she just turned seven.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_06And you know, she's well, you're gonna be home for Maggie's birthday, and you're gonna be home for the and it's that's not fair. And then you know, suddenly that guilt comes up. You'll be lying in a bed, a hotel room somewhere, and then you're like, What am I doing? Like, why am I doing this and for the cost of that? But then you know, you rationalise things, and it is you know, hopefully, because it will buy me time back with them uh a little bit later. So you just try to try and balance things out. Balance is probably the word that I've always come back to in in life, is about trying to find the right balance. That doesn't mean 50-50. And it's trying to barely ever mean. Yeah, so it's trying to work that out.
SPEAKER_02Spending the time together, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Then we have children.
SPEAKER_01Do you do you go right? Do you have Josh's back? We will, you know, we'll go, we'll we'll dedicate time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, try, don't we? We do try to, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Tony dedicates time away from me. Business, family life, it's just constant. We're very interested. James, when are you gonna go and go and do something?
SPEAKER_04That's so true. We're gonna put time without you. Even in the middle of the night. I've thought of something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, we do a lot of that.
SPEAKER_05I try and lean on it as well. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say it's um quarter second. Okay, great. Oh lord, yeah, we should be probably starting. So we had to cut the conversation there because we had more uh guests arriving. But um really enjoyed sitting down and speaking to Jos and Louise. They've been hugely supportive of what we've been doing, and uh needless to say, that is unbelievably uh appreciated and valuable for a young start-up like Pro Aura. Um massive, massive thanks to them for taking the time and allowing us to uh share their involvement across our social platforms and this podcast. Um that is it for today or coming, but for now, thank you for listening and enjoy your holidays if you're heading off.