Becoming Known with Cambria Pardner
Becoming Known is a podcast where faith, formation, and meaningful conversation come together so Christ becomes more known to us, and people become more known to one another.
In each episode, Cambria Pardner invites you to join her on a journey of reflecting more deeply, living more intentionally, and growing with purpose.
Becoming Known with Cambria Pardner
#016: Becoming Stories: Who Is Mike Zhang? (Part 1)
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Mike Zhang is a scientist, leader, and Seattle resident whose journey to faith is both thoughtful and compelling.
In Part 1 of this conversation, Cambria explores what brings Mike joy, how he practices Sabbath, and why he ultimately chose Christianity after exploring other worldviews and religions. Mike also reflects on the significant role that having access to a physical Bible played in shaping his faith.
Tune in to hear Mike’s story and the experiences that have shaped who he is becoming.
🙏🏾 Resources and Scriptures Referenced:
- Practicing The Way founded by John Mark Comer - a pathway for apprenticeship to Jesus.
- Numbers 6: 24 - 26
Hello and welcome to another episode of Becoming Known. This is a podcast where Christ format kind of meaningful conversation come together. So Christ becomes more known to us, and people become more known to each other. And finally we see the last episode of B 24. And the last episode will be 1v24. Thank you all for coming along with me on this journey for the first season, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Mike. I'm really excited for the guest that we have today. It is Mike Zhang. Mike is one of the most fascinating people I think I've met in the last two years, and I'm being honest when I say that. One of the big reasons why I wanted to have Mike on the podcast and why I find him fascinating is his faith walk is different than mine and his path to Christianity. I was born and raised in a Christian family, and Mike has come to Christianity a bit later in his life. So I definitely want to ask him some questions about that. And Mike, question for you Have you ever heard of the term hostile witness?
SPEAKER_02Hostile witness? Yeah. Never? I don't believe so.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Enlighten me.
SPEAKER_00They have that in like the courtrooms when they have witnesses there, but they don't want to be there.
SPEAKER_02Oh, oh, okay. I don't know what that is. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I feel like you are not on that level, but you were definitely a reluctant guest. So I'm glad that you were. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. It is totally fine as is. So I'm glad you're here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, some other things about Mike Singh that we'll definitely get into today. Um, he has a PhD, which I find super fascinating. Um, he was born in a town that's not that's now famous in China. Um so we'll get into that too. Um, but Mike, to kick us off, can you let us know um what's one thing that's really bringing you joy in your life right now?
SPEAKER_02Uh let's see, one thing bringing joy in my life. Uh I don't know if there's a lot of big things, but I think a lot of small things right now, I would say, are all um helping me enjoy life. Uh of course, uh my faith in church uh is a big one, but just a bunch of small things. Um spending time with family. I I uh speak with my family members a lot, especially my brother. Um I are pretty close. Um and of course I see um them whenever I can. They live on the East Coast now. Okay. So what part? Uh they they live in Massachusetts.
SPEAKER_01Okay, nice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, and then um yeah, just I think suspended family is a big one for me.
SPEAKER_00Okay, good, okay. So big family person.
SPEAKER_02I like to think so.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, and so your brother, I've definitely heard you mention your brother before. Remind me, is he older or younger?
SPEAKER_02He's younger, yeah. He's eight years younger.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Do you that's that's kind of a sizable age gap. Do you feel like you were definitely the older brother in the relationship?
SPEAKER_02Uh I think when we were younger, definitely.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Uh, as we both got older, um, I mean, he's an adult now too, of course, but I also kind of intentionally um act, well, I try to at least act more childish around him to just kind of needle and prod him. Uh right. And I enjoy, I find it funny. He doesn't, which makes him kind of the almost uh um annoyed older sibling sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02But but it's all like fun and games kind of deal.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So this is this to me is a fascinating aspect of your personality, and maybe this is why I find you intriguing, because I can't quite figure you out. When most people by the way, you're welcome. When most people meet you, I sometimes you present as one thing and then there's layers to you, and I think layers are really fascinating. To me, you sometimes come off as a bit serious with the whole joking with your brother. I mean, and trying to like needle him a bit. Would you describe yourself as a more serious person, more playful, sometime in between?
SPEAKER_02Um I think probably more playful, I would say, at least with people that I um know well and like close with, I think. Okay. Like, you know, if I'm at work or in a professional setting, I would say, yeah, I'm pretty serious, you know, I've tried to be professional and things, but um, and maybe when we first met, like earlier on, I think um, you know, when I joined the church, I probably was pretty reserved. I never really belonged to a church before Coastline. Um so I wasn't super sure what I was getting into, kind of what um uh yeah, what the expectations are and stuff like that. So um, and even now I don't know if Coastline is more um extreme in terms of like that type of community or not. Like, but but I also get the sense that uh the church is like fairly informal, that's what I would, and um casual. Um uh which is nice, I think.
SPEAKER_00Um I feel like that's pretty spot on um from the churches that I've visited as well. So um okay, so what what drew you to Coastline? Just how did you get there in the first place?
SPEAKER_02Uh Coastline specifically, or just church in general?
SPEAKER_00I I would say both. Let's talk about your faith first and then Coastline if that works.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um I think a lot of things uh brought me to my faith, but to keep it simple, I would say um I would say my journey really started like five years-ish or so ago. Um, I started questioning a lot of things that made me ultimately uh want to read the Bible. Um and I was reading on my own for a while, and uh I was reading a good chunk, but to be honest, I wasn't understanding it very well.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02And uh a good friend of mine actually, uh, whom I didn't know until around like six, five, six years ago that he was Christian, uh, I started asking him some questions. I was like, hey, like I'm trying to read the Bible, and let me take a step back. I'm I was trying to read it like a book, so like sequentially, like page by page, so like from the Old Testament forward. And you know, I was reading these things in the Old Testament, and based on what I knew about Christianity, I like wasn't able to jive like those two pieces together. Um and talking with my friend really helped. And um and then he suggested actually to me, oh, maybe um you know you should look into joining some Bible studies or or churches even to help you um like learn more. And uh so I did that. Um actually we he and I ended up starting a Bible study ourselves. Um he lives on the East Coast, it's a virtual Bible study. Um and then and then uh eventually he suggested, oh, you should actually just join a church because you know you can only get so far reading the Bible on your own or doing even Bible study, you have to really be a part of the church. And um that's how I ended up in Coastline, which was almost two years ago now, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so you and I started going to Coastline around the same time then. Um and how did you find Coastline? Was it a Google search or yeah?
SPEAKER_02I think I just looked for a church that one was um fairly accessible for me to get to. And then um, and then just uh looking at the website and seeing kind of what is it that is being advertised on the website.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, you know, one thing I uh was advised to like focus on is to see um you know how uh Bible-oriented is the church. And coastline seemed to me uh you know, Bible-oriented and Christ-oriented, of course. Um and Coastline seemed to fit the bill, at least um from what I could gauge by the website compared to some of the other churches I was um kind of glancing at a bit. And um yeah, I I joined. I uh I actually still remember decently well the first uh service I attended. Um I remember the first people I met. Um I remember Bryce's first sermon that I saw.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um and yeah, it was all, I guess, a positive lasting impression. Okay. And I uh yeah, I've been in coastline since.
SPEAKER_00Okay, nice. Uh so you said you want to find something accessible. I do feel like proximity is definitely an underrated factor when people pick a church. I think it's a lot easier to just get involved, show up to things, learn when you don't feel like you need to travel like an hour or something to go to church. So that definitely makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02How did can I ask, how did you uh find close line? Is it similar or like you know, as someone who grew up in the faith, are you looking for other things too beyond kind of what I just said?
SPEAKER_00Um, great question. Those are a lot of the factors what you listed as well. Some of it's kind of a vibe or feel, because I've been to a fair amount of churches over my life. Um non-denominational. You described Coastline as having a little bit more of a relaxed feel. Um, and I agree with that compared to some Lutheran churches I've been to, even Presbyterian or certainly Catholic Mass. And so I'm more comfortable with something that leans a bit more non-denominational in feel. Um, but I went to a lot of different methodologies um and branches of Christianity, like those types of churches when I was in college, and not because I was necessarily looking for something, but just wanted to find a church home and knew that that was important. Um, and that's how I grew up. So um, but yeah, I was looking for the I guess the other things, a church with people around my age too. That was something that was really important to me. Um preaching that I felt like I was taking some things away. But um, for me, what surprised me about Coastline and what I didn't expect was the discipleship and the focus on actually walking like a Christian. Like, how do you live this out? Um, so for you, have you had a chance to go to many of the practicing the way type things? And how have you found those? Um, has those have those been helpful, um, interesting, confusing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they've been helpful, I think. Um, because it's one thing I think to uh you know, just go to Sunday church or even reading the Bible, I think it's another thing to learn and understand how to actually apply it to your life. So I think those have been really helpful for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Definitely not something, or at least some of the things, not something I feel like I can just turn the switch and do like immediately, but something I'm trying to learn to be better about, um doing more uh consistently um and you know, doing it with of course uh God in mind. Um so yeah, I think, and also just hearing other people's stories about how they have been uh learning the practice themselves, whether they're starting new, similar to me, or have been doing it for years or decades or whatever, um, I think that's been very helpful as now as well.
SPEAKER_00Okay, thanks. Yeah, I definitely feel like we have a strong community. Um and for people listening, when I say practicing the way, what I'm referencing, um it's ministry by John Mark Comer. Um, it talks about you know, how do we actually live the way of Jesus? And there are several um series where it's podcast and it's designed to be discussed in community, um, but the prayer one was super impactful for me. Uh fasting, Sabbath, solitude, uh, scripture is the one we're in the middle of right now, and then service. And those are the ones that come top of mind. But that to me, I feel like has really changed my Christian walk in such a positive way. So have any of those uh the ways have any of those stuck out to you more than others?
SPEAKER_02Um I think I mean ones you listed for sure, but I think the two for me specifically have been uh Sabbath and fasting.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, I feel like those are very um, or I shouldn't say very, but they're more like concrete examples of like what Christians, we as Christians should be doing, and not something I've never honestly consciously thought of ever doing before I became a believer.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, uh, I think uh Sabbath actually in particular was one that I kind of struggle with, um, especially going into it, because um, you know, I've kind of been of the mindset for a long time that you know don't be too like wasteful of your time or like uh procrastinating kind of deal, which means you have to always be productive and you know not that not that Sabbath is the opposite of that, but Sabbath is teaching us right to be like like know when to rest, like as as um you know, as God did in Genesis. And I think yeah, that for me is still something I'm trying to learn a lot more and be better at practicing, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Okay. And for you, what does Sabbath typically look like for you?
SPEAKER_02Um well I I try to do it on Sundays because those are I feel like usually good days. Um and lately, um last I would say you're so um if uh I don't have work stuff, um, then I definitely don't try to like do anything work related. Um there are some days where it's inevitable because of the nature of my work where we have to um that I can't avoid unfortunately. But but before I was like, you know, working a few hours every Sunday night to like prep for the week. Um and I'm like not doing that. Like I'm not even like checking my Monday calendars anymore. Whereas before, it's like the very least, I didn't know what's going on on Monday. Do I need to prep stuff? I need to be um getting ready for certain meetings and stuff like that. Um so so yeah, so definitely not work in terms of what I do do, I would say um sometimes exercise, sometimes like trying out some new cooking recipes, things like that, um hanging out with friends, of course. Um and um yeah, I think that's probably the the gist of my Sundays now.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so he cooks. What's your favorite thing that you cook?
SPEAKER_02I didn't say I cook like as of like cook well. I try my hand on cooking.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay. Are you a recipe person or more of a wing it type situation?
SPEAKER_02Uh somewhere in between, I guess. Like I need to know the steps and ingredients, but like I don't do like measuring cups or anything like that. I'm not I'm not good about that, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Okay, interesting. Okay, so what's been your favorite thing that you have made lately?
SPEAKER_02Um I've been doing a lot of soups. Um, like trying to do things, soups that um uh like my mom or my grandmother used to make for me. Um definitely not doing at the same level as they are doing, but like my mom, for example, give me at least the ingredients. She'll give me like some very casual instructions, and I I've been trying to figure it out from there, I guess. Um, but it's um it's uh it's not the worst thing that I've ever made, but it you know, they can be better, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay, good to know. Multi-talented, love it.
SPEAKER_02Um talent's a strong word, but sure. I'll take it.
SPEAKER_00I think you're humble, Mike. Um okay, I have one more question about the faith, and then you said something I put a tab in about your work. So I'll circle back there. Uh, but you had mentioned you had questions, and so you started reading the Bible. Why did you turn to Christianity and the Bible amongst all the other religions out there? What was it that pointed you to Christianity?
SPEAKER_02Uh that's a good question. Um, I think um, I mean, based on the other religions I knew, I didn't exactly think those religions were gonna offer me the answers I was seeking for. Um, and then not to say I know all religions, of course, at least based on the ones I knew, um, like a little bit more than um like a casual understanding of at least.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then I will say another part of it is um, so I didn't grow up Christian, but I have had like Christian um what's the right word? Like influences, I guess, like sporadically in my life.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um, like to name a couple, um, like for again, my my family uh is not Christian, but for whatever reason, um my mom, uh I think it was my mom and not my dad, uh, she gave me a picture Bible or like a picture version of the New Testament when I was really young. And I remember reading that a lot as a kid. Um when I was in, as another example, when I was in um, I think sixth grade or seventh grade, like 10, 11 years old, whatever age that is, uh, I went to a Christian summer camp. Okay um and um I mean it was just like camp and fun and stuff, but there were some elements of it in terms of like the teachers that also stuck with me as well, um, even to this day. Um so like things like that, just like sporadically like regarding Christianity specifically, that have kind of stuck with me. And um and I uh uh this was around a time where I was you know questioning a bunch of uh things um in my life around me, and it just so happened that um uh I was given a Bible, like I didn't own a Bible at that time. Um I was given a Bible and I was like, oh, um you know now that I have this, I I I I should read it. Uh I might as well um read it.
SPEAKER_00Given a Bible in summer camp or somewhere different?
SPEAKER_02Oh no, like um like five, six years ago. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um when I was like around the same time, I was like, oh, like I feel like I need to be um you know trying to understand uh God or religion better. Um and I I happened coincidentally to be given a Bible and I was like, oh maybe I should uh read it. So that was um it sounds like a small thing, but I think that helped too. It's like I had a physical Bible to actually read. Um so that I think was actually very helpful and and uh um in hindsight at least.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So a combo of the physical Bible being there, and also it seems like there was something inside of you that kind of nudged you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I I would um I would say so, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, friends, we will end it there for this week. That is the first part of Mike Things episode. I would encourage you to listen in next week for the final half. For today, I will leave you with one of my favorite blessings. The Lord blessed you. The Lord makes a full card on you and the first. The Lord takes a closer.