Confidence, Courage, and Communication | Tanya Boyd | #iolglobal

Lead with Legacy is the official podcast of IOL Global, where we explore leadership that outlives titles and trends.

Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we discuss integrity, conviction, courage, and purpose — the kind of leadership that leaves a lasting legacy.

In this episode, host Amanda C. Chambers is joined by Tanya Boyd, Director of Creative Collaboration for Project Success Academy.

Tanya shares her journey from disaster recovery after Hurricane Katrina to leadership roles across government, healthcare, marketing, and technology. Drawing from her experience with PMI, global speaking, and creative leadership, she unpacks what people truly need when there is no clear playbook.

In this conversation, we explore:

Why confidence and having a champion can change the trajectory of a career

How leaders regain footing during uncertainty and overwhelm

The role of communication preferences in modern leadership

Why fear, burnout, and rapid change impact teams more than we admit

How creativity, storytelling, and humanity belong in project leadership

What it means to empower people through education rather than entitlement

This episode is for leaders navigating complexity, change, and ambiguity — and for anyone who wants to lead with courage, clarity, and purpose.

🔔 Subscribe for more leadership insights from IOL Global
🌐 Learn more at IOLglobal.com

Connect with Tanya Boyd: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanya-boyd-pmp-project-personality/

Learn more about Project Success Academy: www.projectsuccessacademy.com

#LeadWithLegacy #LeadershipCommunication #StakeholderEngagement
#ModernLeadership #EmotionalIntelligence #LeadershipDevelopment
#ProjectLeadership #WorkplaceCommunication #IOLGlobal #ServeGod #ServePeople

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Lead with Legacy, the official podcast of IOL Global. Here we will explore leadership that outlives titles and trends. Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we will discuss integrity, conviction, and purpose. To learn more about us, visit us at iOLglobal.com. Today it is my extreme honor to introduce you to Miss Tanya Boyd, who is here. She is the Director of Creative Collaborations for Project Success Academy. And she's going to tell us a little bit more about herself, who she is, where she's from, and what she does. And then we'll have a little bit of discussion and learn some really interesting stuff about leadership today. So, Tanya, I give you the floor. Thank you for having me here, Amanda.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

So I'm Tanya. I live in a town called Lafayette, Louisiana, which identifies as Cajun culture. Y'all can see I got my Mardi Gras earrings on. Everything is kind of a theme with me. And Mardi Gras comes really early for us this year. It's actually going to be happening on Tuesday, February 17th. So all of Louisiana is kind of in preps for that. So I have worked in a variety of different industries. I kind of defined my project management start in disaster recovery after Hurricane Katrina happened in 2005. So since that time, I've actually worked in a lot of different industries, such as government, tech, marketing, also, difference in healthcare as well. And for about seven years, I was with the Project Management Institute for the PMI Baton Rouge chapter. So those stories and that journey has brought me to a lot of where I am now. And currently in the role of director of creative collaborations. That's a very fancy way of saying that I do a lot of different things. I help elevate our instructors who teach the P and other PMI certifications, as well as develop partnerships and business and try to educate.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

So that's that was probably enough. That was relatively. And so you and I have done some work together in the past. So tell us a little about the past work and then we'll talk about some things that we're doing now.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Absolutely. So I was super grateful when you reached out to me in September of 2024. So I'm gonna go back and tell a little bit of the origin story. So you had reached out to me. I had been seeing Joseph Phillips communication of needing somebody to create video content and teach on video for two hours self-recording. So I didn't think that was me. I didn't think I could do it. I was used to speaking in front of people in person or virtually. I was like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to watch myself, record myself, speak, do all the things, and get through it. So third time was a charm when you reached out to me. I remember I was in Gatlinburg, Tennessee at the time, and I said, well, if the universe is knocking on my door in this specific way, then I guess I really have no other choice but to answer. So I loved working with you on Pure, and you're an inspiration to me because just watching you in action and how you help over 20 project managers stay on time and on track. There's an irony there with project managers. And I think anybody listening to this knows that irony. The way that you coordinated all of us to get our videos done and our PowerPoints in the format they needed to be done, and then even just marketing effort. So flash forward to today, I'm grateful to be able to work with you in continued capacity with the work that we do for Project Success Academy.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

Yeah, so now, you know, fast forward to this year. So when we started IOL, we started working together a little bit here and there at Project Success Academy, working through some marketing initiatives and stuff like that. And then we are working together kind of dual. Um, so Corbo Tech Um and Project Success Academy are, I guess you could call them sister companies. Yeah. And so we're working together through those two companies on contract. And so we get to spend a lot of time together. We get to chat a lot, and it's a lot of fun. And recently, um, a few months ago, we got to meet in person. Mew came to Branson, Missouri, and I'm not too far from there. So we got together and got to have brunch and meet each other in person. So that was really cool. That was a lot of fun. So hopefully we get to do that again soon.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Absolutely. And next time we won't be sick. That'll be sick. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

We can't do it. But we did it anyway. So we made it happen. It was amazing. Yeah. Okay. Well, so that kind of gives everybody a little history of like who you are and how we're connected. And even though the work that I'm specifically doing now is not so much in the project management space as I've been for the last six years, still working closely with people like you and quite of other quite a few other people in the industry, project management as we move along. It was just really exciting because it kind of aligns with where I've been. Um, and it kind of strategically goes forward with the things that we're trying to do at IOL with some coursework, some book publishing, um, and things like that and marketing. All right, we're gonna start out with your first question. Much of your work centers on helping people navigate spaces where there is not a neat playbook. When things feel uncertain or overwhelming, what do people most need to regain their footing?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Confidence in a champion. So a lot of times, you know, I I've definitely faced instances in the past where I didn't have the confidence in myself to be able to get something done. I didn't see that in myself. And so I was fortunate, you know, at different points in my life that I had people champion me and say, you've really got this, or they view me in a different way than I view myself. Like I even go back, I mean, there was there was a mentor of mine in disaster recovery that his belief in me set me on the trajectory to even go about getting my PMP. If he hadn't had that conversation, I don't know that I would have. And even the PMI chapter at one point, so we were always in Baton Rouge, but Lafayette's about an hour, I wouldn't have to I live kind of in the country. But it's about an hour away from Baton Rouge. And there was one period where somebody came to me and said, we really need something in Lafayette. And I proposed, well, let's do a venue because actually starting a full board, it's it's so much paperwork behind the scenes and so much board structure that people don't know. And so I was like, Baton Rouge is already up and running, and we've got the financials. I'll help you start a venue in Lafayette where we meet monthly. And our first one started at University of Lafayette. And I remember going on stage, which this was, I mean, well, stage, but like to a podium. And I remember the president of the PMI chapter at the time, you know, saying, This is going to be the face of this. And I was like, you know, I like literally grimaced on camera, made jokes about myself, stumbled over words. But then later on, like I look at the journey and I'm like, this is kind of crazy that now, years later, I can go to a global conference and people recognize me. I mean, probably a lot of my selfies on LinkedIn and such, but no shame. Um, but it's just, it's just weird. It's like looking back at those periods and never being able to imagine it before, but yet here you are. And then same thing with Pure and the video. You know, I went out of that experience. And when I first got my job with Project Success Academy, the first project was doing a communication series, which evolved into three separate segments. So when you have no playbook and you're uncertain and you don't know what comes next, a lot of times I just tell people to start. Find somebody to talk to, find somebody who's done what you want to do, take those first steps. And like a lot of times once you get to the top of the mountain, you're like, How did I even make this journey? But life's just weird that way. Yeah. I don't know how else to explain it other than just start and find good people. Surround yourself with good people. Don't surround yourself.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

A good tribe of people around you. Like I know that there's times we have conversations where the day was just crazy or there's just the week was just insane. And sometimes it just takes that coming together and saying, hey, you know, like what's, you know, what's really going on? What can we put in perspective? I know we've had to have some of those conversations for you and for me. Yeah. Yeah. Just to kind of collaborate together a little bit and get on the same page and say, hey, okay, well, it's bad, but it's not that bad. We can fix it.

unknown 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Or, you know, let me help you with it. It's good to have a helper in a lot of different capacities. And sometimes it's good to just go, hey, I've been looking at this way too long. I can't look at this anymore. Can you look at it for me?

SPEAKER_01 9:30

Yes. Having that QA piece. I mean, and that's big in work days too, even like all of the AI conversations and stuff. I'm like, everything needs QA, everything needs a second set of eyes. When you're stuck in something for too long, you start to lose the ability to see the forest for the trees. And so that's when you go to your network or people that you know, like, and trust, you know, and even on uncertainty, again, this goes back to tribe and good circle of network and friends. There's a lot of times in the past I was surrounded by everybody that were like, oh, you're so talented, but you could never do this. You could never do that. Don't even go for that because that's not you. If you have goals and different dreams, then you need to start. I'm not gonna say totally cut those people off, but you need to limit the interactions and focus more on people who help highlight your abilities and your strengths. Yeah. And share you on.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I can totally empathize and agree with that. And I think one of the things that like at my age now that I've really, really learned is like, I don't want to sit at the tables that I'm not welcome at anymore. I don't want to hang out with the people that aren't gonna encourage me and share it be. And I'm not saying like, oh, everything has to be positive all the time. It's good to be positive, but I wanna I want to see people that will tell me the truth. Like, hey, you really shouldn't do that. But what you're really good at is this, and you should do this. And I think that in my younger years, it was a lot harder for me to to kind of say, hey, it's time to exit, it's time to move on. This isn't fulfilling anymore. This isn't really where I'm supposed to be. Now I feel like I have a unique opportunity more to have the understanding and the wisdom to say that project really isn't for me, or really to know that I'm working on a project, right? Because when we were working on Pure, everybody's like, you know, you're doing like you're doing the thing, you're a project. And I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_01 11:31

You didn't see it, but you were we all saw it. That was the coolest thing, you know. And I remember those conversations because I was like, everybody on this team sees it. They see your ability, they see your fortitude, they see your resilience, you know, but it really hit my heart because like there's so many identifiable instances in my past where I'm like, I felt exactly like that. I understand what this is like. So that to me is partially why it's so important for me to help other people and champion them because I fully understand what it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I agree. I agree. So let's talk a little bit about you. Have a course on Project Success Academy that's about communication, which is so important. I I'm I'm big, I'm a big advocate of communication. I've watched the course. It's amazing. It's really, really well done. It's on sale right now, I think. And so we're we're pre-recording this. I don't know if it'll be on sale when this comes out, but hopefully. If not, it's still really worth it. So let's talk a little bit about that. So you have said that projects rarely unravel because people don't care, but because the communication breaks down. So, what patterns do you see most often when that breakdown begins, or how could you speak to that?

SPEAKER_01 12:44

So, a lot of times, I mean, when we think about communications, it is, you know, that's just one word, but that one word spirals off into so many different modes that we don't always think about. So we've got different communication styles and different preferences. I mean, you've got the emails, you've got the phone, you've got the text, you've got your multiple, you know, Slack teams, all of the different things. People are missing the messages lately. So just even understanding how our stakeholders want to be communicated with. I mean, I've a lot of times in the past I used to be a phone person, but now it's like it's so busy, even after work. I'm typically working on other projects for other speaking or all of these different things that I don't love when people just call me. And I hate to say that, you know, but I'm like, please text me. You know, and it makes me feel so bad, but I'm like, just text me and see if I'm available, you know, type of thing. And then me even trying to learn other people's preferences so I don't overwhelm them with my communication style or just chatter constantly and distract them. You know, so just even thinking about those things, but moods and emotions can impact communications too. So right now we're living in a time of there's a lot of stress and you know, I hate to go back to it all the time, but the pandemic changed us forever. I mean, that that changed all of us forever. And then AI becoming so widespread in 2023, and even watching it over the years, like even last year was just such an acceleration race with AI, and then there were so many layoffs, and you got all these qualified people, but so all of that to say there's a lot of fear and fear of job loss or somebody taking on your role or anything like that, that will impact communications and teams to an extent that's it's really tough to qualify sometimes, but like leaders need to be super uh mindful of that. I think it's very important to create safe spaces at work where people can talk and bring their emotions to the table. I mean, I know there's a lot of people they're like, no, we don't need all of that, but you're never gonna eliminate that from the mix. Like you are never gonna be able to control that. But if you're a respectful person and you're mindful and you acknowledge it and figure out how to talk to your team and meet them where they're at, you will usually get better outputs from your team. So I know I ran all around the block on that, so I don't know if I answered the question.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

No, that's good, and I understand. Like, I I think too, with so much of the AI and so much of us working remote, because I know that I have someone in office with me now, which actually is kind of it's totally new for me because I haven't done it in like six years. Right. And Sloan is incredible. She likes to come here, she likes to be in office. Um, and at first I was like, that's no, we don't do that. You know, because I've worked remote so long and by myself so long. But it's really refreshing to be able to bounce ideas, to be able to talk through things. And working remote makes the communication process different, not necessarily bad, right? Because you and I work remote together, and so we might, you know, be chatting on Teams. Um, and so I might be able to, you know, be doing certain things and then, you know, answer your questions or answer somebody else's questions. So it's a different kind of communication. So I love my I love what you said about learning what other people's communication styles are. Like, where do you want me to ping you? Do you want me to text your phone? Do you want me to get you on Teams? Do you want me to email you? What do you like to do? Because for me, my phone is typically off. It's sitting to the side. I'm not like because I'm so focused on the work that I'm doing, because I got a lot of detailed work that I have to work on. Um but if you ping me on my computer and it dings on this side of the thing, I'm gonna see you. And so it's really learning what do you like? What's your preference? Kind of learning those stakeholder preferences with the people that you work with, whether it's remote or in-house. Hey, do you need me to leave you alone for the next four hours? And and just understanding like this is my team, this is how they prefer to communicate, or this, this, these are my clients, and this is how they prefer to communicate.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

And I love what you teach in the class. It's really, really well done. Thank you. And highly recommend it to everybody. So your work at the intersection of project management and creativity. So you you do some pretty um creative and interesting and different kind of things that I haven't seen with anybody else. And anybody who isn't connected with you on LinkedIn needs to get connected because they can see you going through with alligators and all kind of crazy stuff, which is a lot of fun. So, and you also work with a lot with AI because with Corvo and Project Success, AI is is integrated a lot. It's encouraged to a great extent, which has been a huge blessing to me because I have learned so much and had the opportunity to learn so much. So, how do you help people approach the technology thoughtfully without losing that creativity or that humanity in it?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

I just I approach it with storytelling, you know, and I had a really cool conversation last night. I'm gonna share a little bit of this because it's my first time really sharing it, other than with my dad. So I went to a local Lafayette Veterans event last night, and one of the men that I know from a local company, Techno, introduced me to his wife. Well, his wife, as it turns out, is she's a teacher at a community college here. She teaches a culinary course that also covers business. So I went off on my little tangent about how food can trade on project management. So I started using gumbo as an example, which you know, gumbo is one, and even tacos. Like when you think about tacos, for instance, there's so many different flavor profiles that you could pull together. Some people are going to want chicken, pork, meat. Some want some vegetables, some want crispy, some want flour tortillas. People are vegan. There's different options that can be worked into tacos as well. So it's just understanding those different differences. So we just wound up in this really, really cool conversation. She's like, I'm going to have to come get you to be a speaker for my students, you know, Friday. And then we went off into another subject later in this year. And I'm not sure if I can say the name yet, because it's I'm going to let the chapter announce it first, but I'm partnering with somebody to do a talk on neurodiversity and specifically how organizations can embrace that and see different people with different abilities and different styles as being an asset to the organization. And there's a lot of research too, just even on creativity of neurodiversity. So she and I got off into that topic and we just went down another whole rabbit roll world about it. So creativity and talks and educating people. Some of this, like, I remember even when I was in high school, I was one of these kids that would get straight A's, but I would fall asleep in some of the instructors' classes because I would, I would get bored. I'm I'm just that person that I'm like, you have to hold my interest. So I started modeling my behavior and my styles off of some of those favorite teachers that I had that just taught, I had a very interesting physics teacher, had a very interesting history teacher, and then one in college on Greek mythology that made it like soap opera time. So I just picked up what I really liked. And I think to it makes the style more unique. Like I don't think there's anybody out there that's gonna go copy the exact same idea of kayaking with alligators and tying in swamp tails and not a whole lot of people. Yeah, you know, how it uh how it ties in with project management. I mean, I see a lot of people talking about nature and their influence and how it impacts projects, which is totally true. Totally, totally true. You know, but just I create those different styles to just to have my own distinctive blend. But like I I grew up like that. I think I was that kid that was always a little bit strange and quirky and like dancing to the beat of my own drum. So it's just I'm an Aquarius, so it's like definitely carried over into adulthood.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

It's worked out really well for you, though. You do a lot of speaking, you go and and talk at a lot of different uh events of the PMI Global, which is a huge event for people who are not in the project management arena. That's a massive event that they have. And Tanya has spoken there, she spoke at um other map, many, many, many other PMI events as well. So I think it's I think it's working out pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

Yes, but I think we're all on a journey to be ourselves. And I don't know if that makes sense, but like in my past, I felt like I had to conform to everybody else's expectation. And I think with age and wisdom and experience, you start moving more in the direction that I want to be me. I don't want to hide all the sides of me. I just I don't want to have to play like I'm something that I'm not. It's just easier for me to be exactly what I am. And whatever that encompasses, that's what it is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

I agree with that wholeheartedly too. And I think that comes with maturity and age too. And learning that, you know, I need to be the person that I was created to be and let that shine versus trying to conform to what everybody wants all the time. And exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. I had to learn that the hard way. I like to learn things the hard way. So yeah. Me Chang. Me chang. Yeah. We're we're gonna ask you a couple. I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions. Um, but these are some general questions that we're gonna kind of ask everybody on this podcast just because I think it's really interesting to hear what people have to say about these two things because we all come from different backgrounds, different people, different situations. And so I kind of want to get everybody's take on these two particular questions. So the first one is can you name a leader that you admire and briefly share how or why that leader influenced you and the things that you're doing now?

SPEAKER_01 23:04

So this one is always, I'm gonna admit, this one is always hard for me. It's like me picking a favorite movie or a favorite song. So I'm gonna go in a different direction, and maybe this is a little bit of tie-in with timing, and it's a fictional character, okay? So it's not like it is a real person that plays this fictional character, but just timing-wise, I'm gonna go with Ripley from Aliens. So, where that ties in with timing, next week on the 20th, there's gonna be a launch of Project Land Goes to the Movies. So, this is a book that's gonna be available on Amazon. It was spearheaded by Don Mayhand and Jerry Manis, all creators in the project management PMO space. There was 22 of us that were authors, and we had to write a chapter on Hollywood movie and how that relates to project management. So I chose Ripley because even when I was a kid watching those movies, like The First Alien and what she went through. And then when the sequel came around, which the sequel is, I don't know, like it that's interesting in movies of the first one and the sequel are almost equally good. But you're watching this movie going off why would this woman actually get on this crazy ship after what she went through? Is she nuts? You know, there's that thought, but it's kind of like my topic is on being haunted by projects of the past and how you face your fear to keep going and not let like a horrible experience keep you from trying again. So if you're watching the second movie, it kind of encapsulates that. And I loved her too. Not that she was perfect because there's some dynamics about Rip Ripley that can be a little rough around the edges, but I just loved that she was the character that even when the people above her may have been making not so smart decisions and not leaning into their courage, she was the person that just put the pedal to the metal and said, you know what, if you're not gonna do this, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna take charge of this, and I'm gonna do whatever I can to get people to safety and do what's best for my team. So to me, I just love that because like a lot of times people suffer from the organizational politics and they don't stand up and they're afraid to stand up because retribution or I will be fired or this or that, you know, and I've I've lived through seeing different stuff in the whistleblower days. I'll put it like that, with some of the banking things. It's I feel like some of that I I watched some of those stories with people I know play out. And I was like, you have to stand up. You have to. You know, it doesn't mean that somebody's above you is always doing what's right or what has integrity. If you see something going wrong, be a good person, stand up, help other people. So, like I just I loved her character.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

I think that's so great because I think that is a huge part of leadership, right? Is to one be aware of when something needs to be said and then having, like you said, the courage to say it. Because it's it's really hard to be a good leader if you can't say the things that need to be said that are the hard things that need to be said. And it's not easy, right? It's not, it's not easy to say, hey, you know, this really needs to change, or this dynamic is not good, or um, you know, I'm really undervalued, or I, you know, and and to do it with grace and with dignity um to where you're heard because people aren't gonna hear you if you're screaming and yelling and throwing a fit and and all that. So I think I think what you your example is really, really good. I love it. I I expected something really fun from me. So I'm glad we got that. All right, last question, and then we're gonna wrap up. When you think about your legacy as a leader, because you are an incredible leader, what lasting impact do you hope it has on people?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

I just want people to start believing in themselves. I want to motivate them to think differently and creatively, like even simple, maybe it's not so simple, but like so many people are losing their jobs right now. And there's a lot of people that reach out to me for resume advice, you know, and I will help people, you know, up to an extent because that's again just kind of managing the time and my work and my priorities and different speaking. And and even with Project Success Academy, partnering, you know, with different career coaches like Michael and Scott, you know, but when people come to me, the first thing I've started telling them, and this is because of AI, you know, because you used to, I used to spend like an hour reading it and dissecting every word. But again, I don't necessarily have the time to prioritize that. But I tell people, look, I'm gonna put your resume through a spin on Chat GPT. You know, I am going to get it to pull out the keywords, power action verbs, tell your story differently, prioritize metrics. But a lot of times I'm doing that in an effort to get them to think for themselves, you know. So I'll send them those results on a Word document and then tell them to tailor it. I mean, of course I've had people, can you do it for me? And then boundaries come in, and the answer is no. Um, you know, it like I said, if that was a line of business that I was pursuing, I'd charge for it and I'd do it, but like free time for everything has to stop. Um but legacy, get people to believe in themselves, get people to think of their own feet, get people to self-triage. I've had a saying for a long time, and I hope this doesn't come on right. But I empower education, not entitlement. I want people who may be a little bit entitled to start being a little bit more self-aware and learning how to do things for themselves. Because I think a lot of times now with where we are in technology, that opportunity really, really, really exists. Yeah. And then just encouraging them to have hope, stay inspired, when things go wrong, you know, seek out the bright side of things and just keep going.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

And you really embody that. It you're not just saying that, like you you really do that, even on the hard days, because there's there's days that are rough. It's a lot going on. Um, you wear a lot of hats, you do a lot of things. You're going here and going there, and then you you embody that too in the fact that you try to take some some self-breaks um and and do some fun things and travel and things like that, and do what your passions are outside of the project management world. So I think you really, really can speak to that in truth. And I love that. So so when we finish this up here in a second, people will have a link. They can find you um on LinkedIn. They can find you at Project Success Academy. Um they can reach out if they want to get a hold of you, which I'm sure they will. I personally want to thank you not only for the working relationship that we have, but for the friendship that we've developed. It's been a lot of fun. It's been really, really good getting to know you and and doing the stuff that we we work pretty, I think we work pretty well together. We we do a lot of fun stuff together.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah, yeah. We're well, we're both transparent. And I love that too. I was like, there's never any angles. We'll just call it, you know, and go, okay, we got to do this.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

I think we're both at a point in our lives where we're like, I'm just gonna say how it is. And if I don't like it, I'll say I don't like it. And if I do, I'll say I like it. And you can just kind of take it as it is. So it works pretty well for us. So, Tanya, it's been an honor. It's been an honor to have found you on LinkedIn, to have reached out to you, to have done the work that we've done together. Thank you for being on this podcast. Because again, I think you truly do embody leadership at a high level and a very creative level. And so you were certainly on the list very high up of people that we wanted to interview. And we'll have all your contact information. So if anybody wants to get a hold of Tanya, you can. And I just want to thank you again for being on here and for for all the things that we've gotten to develop together so far and all the things we're getting ready to develop.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

So I know, I know. We've we've got a we've got a path to carve ahead of us, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

We do. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much, everybody, for listening. Thank you for Tanya for being on here.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Thank you.