Why Great Leaders Put People First with Chris McClure | #LeadwithLegacy | Episode 25

What does it take to become a leader people genuinely want to follow?

In this episode of Lead with Legacy™, Amanda Chambers and K. Sloane Lott sit down with leadership coach, author, speaker, and strategic partner Chris McClure for an inspiring conversation about leadership, faith, personal growth, and building a lasting impact.

Drawing from his experience as a pastor, executive coach, chamber leader, author, and entrepreneur, Chris shares powerful lessons on developing people, navigating change, embracing God's direction, and becoming the kind of leader who creates meaningful influence.

In this episode, we discuss:
• Leadership lessons learned from ministry and business
• Why caring for people matters more than managing people
• The importance of personal growth and continual learning
• Faith, purpose, and navigating unexpected career transitions
• Building healthy teams and organizational culture
• The inspiration behind The Magnetic Leader
• How great leaders develop themselves before leading others
• Legacy, mentorship, and multiplying impact

Whether you lead a business, nonprofit, ministry, team, or family, this conversation is packed with practical leadership wisdom and encouragement.

🔔 Subscribe for leadership insights, honest conversations, and practical wisdom you can apply immediately.

🌐 Learn more about IOL Global:
www.iolglobal.com

Support the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2600300/support

Contact our team to book a time to be on the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast:
https://iolglobal.com/podcast

Connect with Chris McClure:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisrmcclure/
Website: https://mcclurecoaching.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mcclurecoaching
Podcast: https://mcclurecoaching.com/podcast/
The Magnetic Leader: https://a.co/d/02Zbcb6R
The Way to Greatness: https://a.co/d/0epiytUI

#LeadWithLegacy #IOLGlobal #ServeGod #ServePeople #FaithBasedLeadership #ChristianLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #LegacyLeadership #KingdomLeadership #ServantLeadership #LeadershipPodcast #AmandaChambers #PublicServiceLeadership #LeadershipWithPurpose

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Lead with Legacy, the official podcast of IOL Global. Here we will explore leadership that outlives titles and trends. Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we will discuss integrity, conviction, and purpose. To learn more about us, visit us at iOLglobal.com. Hello, and welcome to this episode of Lead with Legacy. I am so excited today. Um, I have with me uh Sloan Lott, my director of operations, who is incredible. But we have a very special guest today, Mr. Chris McClure. So this is Chris's second time on our podcast, which is he's our first second timer. I don't know, like we should probably give you some kind of award or something. We should probably get like a player.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Man, do I get some have a yeah, do I get a badge or something? I know.

SPEAKER_04 0:45

I should really think about that. I should have I should have our director of operations think about that. Yeah, so you're our first second time guest, but I I don't think that it'll be your last time on, for one. And I think we'll have some other second time arounders too. We've had several of our our guests contact us and be like, hey, can we do that again? Um, and so it's always good conversation. Before we get started, um, if you're listening, I'm gonna do like a shameless plug. Take a moment, like and subscribe us, or you know, follow us on whatever your favorite platform. I think Sloan's got us pretty much everywhere now. So you can listen to us if you if you dare on any platform that's out there. And we just really hope that these conversations bring life and leadership skills and and information to the people that are listening. It's just a um meant to be a fun conversation. Also, um, we'll have the information below this. Um you can contact Chris and you can get a hold of him. Um, you can follow him on LinkedIn and Facebook. And so we're gonna talk about Chris, what you do and what you have going on and why you're here. So let me just be clear the last time you were on, you were on with my dad, Dr. Chambers, and um, Dr. Leander, who is one of our other strategic partners. And you guys got to have a really great conversation. But Sloane and I were left out of that conversation. And so we said we want to have Chris back and we want to talk to him. So you tell us a little about who you are, what do you do, um, all that.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks again for letting me come back twice. That's great. Uh I I guess the first one went well if I got to come back twice. That's good.

SPEAKER_06 2:18

Yeah, that's a good indicator.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

It was fun to be with your dad and Brian because they, as we shared in that episode, like it was a kind of a full circle moment for us working together 17, 18 years ago, even back in the day. But no, so yeah, so I was a pastor for 20 years, and not at the uh it wasn't a hard line for me of shifting from being a pastor to my leadership business. Back in 2015, I ended up joining the John Maxwell uh Maxwell Leadership Certification Program. I was in really a very challenging leadership spot as a pastor in the role I was in. We were dealing with some internal conflict uh at our church where we were dealing with among the staff and leadership, and it was one of those moments where I would say it, I say now, God used it to kick me out of the nest that I wouldn't have probably flown out of without the conflict.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

But even going back to when I was working with your dad and Brian back in 2008, 2009 timeframe, I started to have this leaning toward the business community and I, and and uh kind of a I I couldn't explain it. I just was drawn to the business community and I didn't know why, because I went to college to be a youth pastor, ended up transitioning to more of an associate in executive pastor roles, and then all of a sudden I had this business like prompting, and I was like, Lord, what is this all about? And I couldn't figure it out. It made no sense because I didn't have a business degree, I never had done anything in business, you know, thought I'd be terrible, blah, blah, blah, right? Like had all the self-doubt and self-talk stuff, right? But through that challenging situation back in 2014, 2015, and I I started really seeking the Lord saying, like, God, if I'm not doing this, what I'm doing right now, what would I be doing? What would you, where would you want me to go? And and I looked, I started interviewing some local leaders that were nonprofit executives, that were corporate leaders. I went to uh Wright State University, which is here in the Dayton area where I am, met with them about uh master of organizational leadership, like trying to just explore like what would I do if I wasn't continuing to do what I'm doing, right? And uh I believe God connected me to a local woman who was a part of the Maxwell organization. And I said I I knew and known about the program like from a distance, but not really fully. And I just said to her, hey, Kristy, you know, what what is this about? Let's talk. So anyway, she she helped me understand what it was. And long story short, that was like beginning of 2015. By June of 2015, I joined the Maxwell Leadership Program. And then at that point, I was thinking more about skill development of it's just something I could do to kind of put on my resume, right? To go find a different job if I needed to or whatever. And then I had a client, I had a friend of mine said, Well, why don't you do some, would you come work with my team? And I was like, Huh, I better actually start a business if people actually want to pay me. So take in mind, I'm I'm full-time at my church, dealing with a bunch of you know, leadership conflict and starting a business, and I didn't know what the heck I was doing.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

Same.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

So maybe some people out there could identify, like, you take that step and you don't know where you're going, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:29

So that was 2015. Oh, progressively for the next four years, I was doing my business, trying to figure out business building, trying to understand that. Every time I, you know, I kept running into like, well, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to promote myself, market myself, all these things, right? And um, and so by 2019, I got to the point where a friend of mine actually, a good friend of mine, he was one of our elders at our church that I was working with, and he said, Chris, what's got something's got to give? I can watch you being pulled in directions. You're, you know, my family at that time was, you know, middle school and elementary age. My kids were, we were very busy and active as a family in sports and activities, all that, right? So he's looking like your family, the church, your business, all these things. And he's like, and I said, Well, and I knew in my heart that it was time to let go. Yeah, but it was hard, right? Like I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, it was a step of faith to let go. So I so that was like early night 2019. I resigned in March, with like I think my end date was in May sometime, and I stepped out and I just went with it with my leadership coaching business and and started just working with I was working with IT companies, nonprofits, small businesses. I didn't really have like I still don't really have a specific niche that I focus on per se, like an industry. It's more about, I'll say the demographic of the small business and you know, teams that need you know, they don't have like a big robust HR department and and have trainers and everything. They're they're looking for that outside help. Um, and so I did that, but then COVID hit. So I was doing really well. Like I had a couple of big contracts. I was, I felt like things were humming long, I could felt feel the momentum. And then COVID hit. And my one big contract kept going, but we were pivoting into the digital virtual side of things because they weren't meeting in the office. Another company that I've been working with for three years, they said we need to stop the it was like a six-month uh workshop kind of a program that we were doing. They were like, we need to, we need to end it for now. And so we had a stopping point and it and uh and we never went back to that. So all of a sudden I'm back to what do I do? You know, like I stepped out a year later, here's all this, you know, collision in the world, everything. Um, and so then I'm back to kind of not square one, but it felt like that, right? And yeah. I was simultaneously on in uh 2020, I joined our local chamber of commerce board, and three months later, COVID hit. So I was all excited about being on the board and helping with the community businesses, and then COVID disrupted everything for that next year. 2021 comes around, and the staff at the chamber, which was a small office, left. They went to different opportunities, and we were at like we had an emergency meeting, and our current CEO and president, she was our vice chair of the board. She said, I'd like to be considered for this position because she was very active in the community. She's a realtor and she was very, you know, had a heart for the local businesses. So we hired her, and uh, I was a part of hiring her on the board. And then we got out of that meeting and I said, Hey, I'd like to talk to you about maybe working together on this because we had another position. It was an operations manager type role at the time. And so we sat down and we kind of had a common shared vision of helping our local businesses. And, you know, for me, I looked at it as maybe this is like a couple year thing and it's like a temporary stopgap that God was providing for me to still keep in the business community, still do what I do, but be in, you know, having the chamber, you know, job to day job to work with. And so that was kind of my focus and my thought at the time. Now I've been there, it'll be five years this summer. My role transition into vice president so that um, you know, really I I handle the marketing, the member relation, a lot of the things, you know, yeah, kind of it's kind of a COO type role for me in what we do, kind of making sure everything's happening. But but it's been it's been a platform for me to really help a lot of small business leaders and owners and really sit down and help them be strategic. So for me, it's been this winding journey from full-time ministry to full-time ministry and build a business to full-time business to my business kind of getting disrupted to now the chamber job and my business. And and I've wrestled with it, to be quite honest, you know, because I thought, God, I thought you were gonna, I thought we were going all in here, and then it's like, and it was like disruption or challenge or blur roadblock. And yet what I started to see, and if I and I've had some very special friends and and mentors around me say, Chris, you got helping me, I guess, get with my perspective, right? And it's seeing each opportunity as a platform, not just as like it's not a failure that my business had a COVID disruption. Right. But it did make me pivot, right? It did make me adjust. And the chamber job isn't like it's not me being a failure because I have I'm working at the chamber now. It's like, no, I get we have 600 business members and lots of community relations. Like, I'm more engaged in our community than I ever was before because of just the job in itself and the people. So all these relationships, all the things, the influence and the impact in the community. So for me, it's been a journey of learning, you know, my own skill set, learn, you know, learning different, you know, the chamber has actually taught me a lot of different things to help my business. Sure. You know, it's been mutually beneficial. Um, you know, I'll be reading books and I'll be like, I'll be thinking about one half of my brain is my business, the other half of my brain is how can this apply in the chamber? And and so it's been kind of fun because they're so interconnected now. So that's kind of a long, I guess, story of where I am. But it, you know, I work with small business owners from a one-on-one coaching side of things. I train their teams in leadership development. I've written two books that we'll talk about as well. You know, I mean, I honestly, it's like if you know that whole question of like if if money were no object, what would you do? And I'm really at the place where I would be doing what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_04 11:22

Yeah. Isn't that amazing though, how God does that? Like, you think you have these plans? We were talking about this before we came on the recording. Like, you know, I'm a planner. I love to plan, you know, every I want everything planned out. And then God's like, well, you know, I want to do something a little different. And so, you know, I think when you got kind of shifted on that trajectory with COVID, God still, God still had a plan, right? He still knew that that there was gonna be things going on for you and that there was a trajectory there. Um, it was just a little different than you thought it was. And so, um, yeah, so the things you've been doing have been really amazing. And yeah, what an incredible opportunity to be um that involved and that immersed in the chamber, though. Having this vision long ago that you were gonna, you know, work with businesses and you are working with businesses. And so sometimes it's not, I think, I think that's important to know. And it's like we know it. Um, but when we're walking through it, it's a little difficult to go, oh yeah, well, we don't have to, you know, we can go left if we we're planning on going right. And it's really about what God's telling you to do in the moment. And and that sounds cliche sometimes too, right? Because we're walking through, like, well, I don't hear what God's telling me to do. Like, I don't know what he's saying. But you just you have to, I think it's important, and this is something I've been learning um through through this process with IOL too, is taking that time to stop and just spend the time with God and take a walk or just sit down and read the word and just really try to listen to what is he saying. Because sometimes it's really, really clear and other times it's really not. You know, like hiring Sloan, that was really, really clear. There's other things that are really not. Um, and then, you know, we pray about things together and try to try to do that as a team. I know, you know, when we were kind of going back and forth talking some things with you, you know, I had I just I was really I had you on my heart and I had been praying. Um, our family had been praying, and I I just reached out and I was like, listen, I think, you know, I think we should have some partnership here, and I think it would be beneficial. And so I think it's important that we stop and we listen sometimes rather than just all the I I'm a very in my head noisy person, you know, and so I have to clear my head a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

So Well, I just gonna say real quick, it it's interesting because years ago, and it I it's it's probably been eight or nine years ago now, honestly, but I was doing like I'd walk around my neighborhood and I'd kind of prayer walk and just pray. And you know, it was it wasn't anything super, but I was I was literally like struggling one day and and I felt like and I'd really just read and I think I even heard a message. Stephen Furtick did a message years ago called Don't Stop on Six. And it's about the Israelites marching around the walls of Jericho and that story in the Bible, right? And so I go out and it's about a mile walk around the loop that I take in my neighborhood. So I I went out and I was just walking and praying, and I was early in that tough out, like Lord, you know, provision, you know, what am I doing? All this you know stuff. And I made a lap around the neighborhood and and I felt like the Lord said, take another lap. And I'm like, okay. My my brain goes to, am I walking this, am I walking seven miles today around this neighborhood, right? Like, so then I go and I do the second lap, and it's like, and I felt like the Lord was like, take another lap. And I'm like, here we go. I'm like, so so anyway, on that third lap, the thing that I felt like the Lord really impressed me, and he's like, Chris, you're worried so much about being the financial provider and everything being about money to your family, and you are so much more than that. And but it was in that quiet, like you said, it's getting out of your head that I felt that was like this burden lifted off me. Like, trust me to provide for you. I've got you, I've got your family. You don't need you're trying to make, you're trying to be the provider, trust the provider, right? Like, and so for me, thankfully, I stopped at three, not seven, you know.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Seven would have been great, though, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm afraid the houses would have fallen down in the neighborhood. I don't know, you know, but no, but it was but it was one of those moments where to your point of when we don't know, and we you know, I can sit in my office and sit here and just try to think my way through it, right? And it's like that doesn't work to you know, you get you get so tangled up. And but yeah, so you're right. It's and and that's been part of my journey, right? It's been it's been a walk by faith. I mean, I there's certain kind of I'll say repeatable phrases that God has given me. And you know, my uncle years ago said, Chris, just keep moving forward.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

And that had stuck in my head for 10 years now. And then, you know, the whole just walk by faith, not by sight. And you know, that has been the journey. And I think for a lot of leaders, whether they really identify it as a faith journey they're on, but they really are in some way, shape, or form of you don't know what tomorrow brings. You don't know what the next you don't know when the next disruption's coming, but you know, it's got you can be ready and you can keep succeeding, but you may have to pivot. And I actually just real quick too, there I was just rereading a little book that I I heard a speaker years ago at a men's event I was at, and it's called GPS Your Success. And and he talked about, you know, like the whole GPS analogy of you put your end destination in, but along the way, you you may have to recalculate, right? It recalibrates when there's traffic ahead, when there's a wreck, when there's an obstacle in the road, whatever. And he's like, sometimes it's shifting lanes, sometimes it's a different route altogether, but doesn't mean your destination is different. It just means how you get between here and there might change. And that's where I think my journey has been is that it's you know, I wanted and expected a straight line 10 years ago, uh, 11 years ago, when I started my business, and it's been the entrepreneur roller coaster, as they say, you know, and and there's been lots of twists and turns. But those twists and turns have built me into who I am today, which also now, ironically, when I still feel incompetent or or lack of experience, I have people going, Hey, would you help me with my business in this area? And I'm like, why are you asking me? Like, what in the world about me makes you think I can help you with that? And then I realized, no, it's because of all the things I've had to learn and go through. Like I used to hate marketing. Marketing was a curse word to me. And then I was one day the Lord said, Chris, that is the thing you need to learn. So for two years, I read every marketing book I could get my hands on. I was digging into marketing, and you know what, I love marketing now. And then I people said, they'll be like, Can you help me with this? You're like a like an expert marketer. I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, because for me, I hated this.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

Yeah. I feel that way a lot when um, so I behind the scenes, um, I do a lot of executive coaching and it was like never a plan. Um, but it just kind of it orchestrates that way, God orchestrates it and puts certain people and they're like, hey, you know, can we talk to you about this or that? And I'm like, sure. And um, I feel that way about that. Like I'm very, I feel very unqualified, but then we'll walk away from meetings that we have and they're like, that's exactly what I needed to hear. This is exactly what I needed to do, and I'm so grateful. And then, you know, three months down the road, we hear about this you happened and that happened, and I'm like, okay, well, I get, I mean, I don't know what I said or what I did, but it seems to work somehow.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

So on our social media marketing, I started offering, I was telling people, you know, yeah, we do executive coaching. And so Miss Amanda one day, she's on LinkedIn and she sees this graphic for our executive coaching, and she says, When did we start coaching executives? And I said, What do you think you've been doing? So when they call you and they ask you and you tell them, I'm gonna hold you accountable. I'm gonna call you and email you and follow up with you, and we're gonna get through this together. And I was like, What what do you call that? That's exactly coaching. Yeah, you offer it, you've been offering it.

SPEAKER_04 18:57

Yeah. I had I had to do um what do you call that? When you like you have to do a self-examination, I had to kind of look back and go, you know what? I've been doing this for a long time and didn't, you know, didn't really know exactly what's the name for that, or what do you call that? So, but that's a good example too. We'll stop right there for a second. That's a really good example why it's a really important thing to have a good team because Sloan, you know, I Sloane saw something that I didn't see. I was just doing whatever I needed to do that kind of came naturally. But then she saw that as, oh no, you're actually doing something. This is something that you're doing. And so that's why it's important to have a good team that recognizes things that you you don't sometimes recognize. Um, and because it wasn't in my plan, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:41

So, you know, and and just you know, it's a real-time example for me. Like I have been kind of tangled up in my head for a while because I've and we'll once again, we haven't even gotten to some of this stuff, but it's like what I've done for the last 10 years, there's so much content I've created, there's so many resources I have available to help people with. I'm actually meeting with a coach next week. I I reach out to a guy that I really respect this week and said, Can we have a session just to help me organize all this stuff that because I it's hard sometimes when you have a lot of things and options that you can do about how to structure it and and you know, organize your thinking and organize your offers so that it makes sense to the outside world. And so for me, it's like people probably heard it's like, you know, if you a coaches need coaches need coaches, right? Like, and and I think we all do, right? I think that and it may not be forever ongoing thing, it could be like a one-off thing sometimes, like help me with this project or the situation. Sometimes it's just that ongoing kind of keeping me centered and grounded on what I need to do. So yeah, I think because we don't see we don't see in ourselves what others can see for us.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

100%. And I've had several people since we started to ask me, like, well, what is it? You know, what is it that you're doing? And I'm like, I am currently doing what God tells me to do. I'm not really sure because I think I want to do this, but this is not what, you know, it's kind of like what you're saying, like it's not what where my heart is or where I thought it was, is not where God's heart is holy. And I want to align up with what he has for it. So it's interesting because you know, when the podcast came around, it was like, okay, well, that I I have never been the front facing person, I've always been everybody's back facing. If you need it done in the background, I've got it. And so this has been a challenge for me. Just to be really transparent when so we usually record on Fridays. Um, and we typically record ahead of time. And so when we think it's the Friday, I I start stressing out, I'm getting panicked. I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if I can, you know. Not that I I I wouldn't even say that it's that I can't do it. It's just I don't know what to expect. And I think that this is I was thinking about this the other day. This is one of the refining moments I think that God's working on me because I don't know the expectation. I don't know what the conversation will really be. I can't control it. And so God's like, that's okay. I got It. I, you know, it'll go. And then we'll get off of a recording, and I'm like, that was the best conversation ever. That was so fun. And I loved it. And every time Slone's like, you say that every time. And I'm like, I know. But it's it's the work up to it, I think, you know, and I don't really know. Like, there's different, there's people like you that we're we're closer with, that there's a better expectation. And then there are some people that have asked to come on the show, and I don't know these people. And I'm like, I don't know, you know, what to expect or what to ask.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

You don't have the same rapport with them built up already and everything.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

So yeah, and it's kind of like that lump in your throat, and you're like, Am I gonna mess it up? But on the bright side, we pre-record, so you know, we we could just we haven't done that yet, but um well I'm gonna let Sloan take over for a minute and ask some questions of you of you, Chris, and and we're gonna get just a little better idea of what it is, and then we are going to talk about your books here in a little bit. I do want to talk about them uh in and go over a little bit about that, but I'll I'll let Sloan have the floor a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

So you have a unique experience. Not many people can say I was a pastor for 20 years and now I'm in this executive space, but doing that 20 years as a full-time pastor, what did ministry teach you about leading people that most business frameworks they miss?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, I think a lot of it for me when I think about that, uh I hear John Maxwell in the back of my head from whack back when I was a pastor and a young leader, I, you know, he said, if you want to grow as a leader and really test your skills, lead in a volunteer organization that when people don't have a paycheck attached to them and that you can't, you don't have leverage, right, because of the money, you have to lead in a in a different kind of way. And that's probably the biggest thing I learned was I learned all my leadership experience from the time I was 18 years old going in, you know, into college and and you know, beyond in those 20 years in my roles, was based on volunteer experience. So I had to lead from a place of caring for people, I had to lead from a place of trying to help them achieve their goals and vision. It wasn't just about what I needed or wanted or our church needed. In fact, there was a woman, and and she would had been teaching Sunday school since she was like a teenager. She was in her 60s. So she'd been teaching Sunday school like 50 years at this point, okay? I went to her, I I just come to our church where we moved here to Ohio to serve in. And it was, I came here like in, we moved here in the beginning of June. And so I think it was that summer, and then like going into the school year, I went to her like in let's say July or August, and I said, you know, Linda, do you want to keep going next year? Like, do you want to continue on? And she said, Chris, nobody has ever asked me that question. They've just assumed that I'm going to keep. And she's like, Of course I'm going to do it. You know, she's like, I've been doing it since I was 15 years old. And I'm like, no. I said, I that's fair. I said, but I want, but I but I always kind of had a policy of asking, I did I didn't want to assume that everybody who said they would help with the youth group or the teaching in the kids' class or whatever world they were in, volunteering, were that they didn't sign up for life necessarily, right? Not everybody does. And so for her, that was her heart, that's her calling, and and she loved it and was great at it. But nobody had ever asked her, Do you are you good or do you need to take a break? And for me, that was really an aha moment or a pivotal moment for me to realize what I was doing just kind of intuitively at that time, asking people was really important. And so I think I think that's part of it, Sloan, is in business, there's there obviously any leader in any organization of any kind can make a lot of assumptions. I think at the same time, caring for the people and making sure that, you know, Jim Collins talks about in good to great of are the right people on the bus, are they in the right seats, get the wrong people off the bus, or sometimes help people move off the bus to a better situation, even. And I helped and I had to do that as a leader, you know. I mean, we had a staff member at a church, and he he'd been there 10 years, had done a great job, but he was burning out, and we would have these one-on-one conversations. I was leading him, and we ultimately offboarded him, but we did it in a way that was it helped him, his family, and the church simultaneously because it wasn't like we we didn't fire him. It wasn't that he didn't need to be fired for anything, right? But but he did but he was a he didn't know how to let go. And so we walked him through that process. And then I had another employee that similar situation, 10 years, and she's like, she felt terrible because she felt like it was time to move on. And I'm like, it's completely okay. Like, yeah, we have that's what I learned. That's when I learned about hey, things happen in seasons. So I think for me, you know, when it comes it's when you're in that environment of it's gotta be about caring for these people, and you don't I mean, some of those were staff situations there, but many of them are volunteer situations where they could have just quit today and it wouldn't have affected them whatsoever, but I would have been behind, you know, trying to pick up the pieces. But a lot of it was do you really care for your people and and do the best for them? And so I think in business that gets lost a lot because of all the deadlines and pressures and all the things.

SPEAKER_04 27:14

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly with that. And and I think of all the thing, I I I do not do fantastic at all the things, but this is one thing that I try really hard. And I don't know if it's just based on, you know, my raising or if it's through different processes I've been through, through different jobs in my life. But I try really, really hard to make sure that the people that I'm working with enjoy what they're doing. They really want to be in that position. And I agree with you on if it's your time to move on, if God's giving you a different path, it's that's okay. Let's support you, let's raise you up in that and let's do what we can to to support you in that. Um, I think that's so important. I think that you're right. It's it's truly missed in business. You know, the role that I was in before, I had kind of grown outside of it and that wasn't a bad thing. But I I kind of had the same thing. I had been working in it for so long and it was so comfortable and so, you know, I w I wouldn't say easy as in like the, you know, it was right. I wasn't getting, you know, but I had kind of worked out of it and but it was hard for me to see the whole picture of it. Um, and so I talked to the ladies, Sloane and Amy, that work for me, um, and I I tell them quite a bit, you know, hey, I want you to like what you're doing. If you're not liking what you're doing, we need to figure something out. One of my favorite books of the Bible is Ecclesiastes, and I go back to that all the time. Like, there's a season at a time. And I think I really had to embrace that when um we were walking through the journey with my mom's cancer and losing hers, like this is just a and this is just a time, it's not forever. I'm gonna see her again. Um, and really, really learning that hardcore lesson of you know, things do change, they don't always go as planned. And we do, you know, have to just follow God's lead in that. So that's really good. I'm really glad you brought that up. All right, Sloan, what you got next?

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I want to talk about the magnetic leader. Miss Amanda and I got those. And I started with magnetic leader, she did too. It's really good. If you don't have a coffee, you need to get one, and we'll make sure that you have the link below for that. But I would read it at night and I kept telling my husband, Oh, you've got to read this. It's so good. And then I would read a line or a paragraph and and I'd be quiet, and then I'd read a line or a paragraph. And he said, if you keep reading it to me, I'm not gonna have to read it. I'm just reading my audio ball by the time you're done. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna stop because I really do want you to read all this. But in that you break down 18 essential actions of leaders people love to follow and don't give away the whole book because I want people to buy the book and read it for themselves, not let their spouse read it to them out loud. What is the one action most leaders skip and what do you think it costs them?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

So, you know, it's interesting because I think we could all we could obviously skip any of these on one level and you know without thinking about it. I think the one that people don't think about the most, and I and the irony of it is it's right in the middle of the book. And I didn't, I didn't make it this, but it came to me later, like it's kind of the heart of the book is essential action number nine, which is loving people. And I think that is, and it goes back to what I was saying before. Do you care for the people you're leading enough to do what's best for them, not just what's best for you? And I think that's you know, all the other actions are great and I and they're needed, but I think that if you don't get that one right, then the other things, they're not gonna at least have the same kind of impact. You know, you could still do them, but you know, why, for instance, why would like chapter one, why would you meet needs of people if you don't care for them?

SPEAKER_06 30:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Why would you give generously to people if you don't care for them? Why would you develop people if you don't care for them? Like there's all these things, right? Like these other actions. And so, like I said, I didn't intend. So this is one of those, maybe God just did it, you know, and placed it right in the center of the book. And, you know, like, hey, it right in the heart of all this, in the middle of it all, is loving people. Because honestly, let's see. I mean, I, and even in the book, I talk at the end of each chapter, there's a section. I wrestle with putting this in honestly the way I did, but at the end of each chapter, there's a section called Jesus, the ultimate magnetic leader. And I talk about how he did these 18 essential actions from what we see in scripture. And loving people is the starting point, right? If he didn't, for God so loved the world, he came, you know, he gave his begotten son. It's like, so if he didn't love, if God didn't love us, he wouldn't have sent Jesus. And if Jesus didn't love people, he wouldn't have done everything he did in ministry and then sacrificed himself on the cross. So so loving people is the core and the heart of it, so that the other actions are coming from that place of true care and concern. And I and I address that in the book as this seems like a very weird topic for business, right? But you have to look at, but but we set up these professional boundaries and walls and all these things in business so many times. You don't have to cross barriers, right? You don't have to do this in in in a very weird, you know, way, right? But you but caring for people, you know, people I think people like just look at the term love and they they think the erotic or they think the the the marriage related, all the things, right? Like it's all about the and it's like no, it's about do you genuinely care for people's best interests? And if you do, then you'll do these other things.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

Yeah. So this is this is probably gonna be my most exciting part of the conversation because I've been waiting for this. So when we first got the well, when we first got connected with you, you actually reached out to us. You saw the stuff that we were putting out the company in the podcast, and you said, Hey, I want to be on it. And um, so my original plan was is that you know, we had we had immediately ordered your books because I I gotta know what you're about, I gotta know who you are, because I don't know who you are. Um and so I gotta I gotta know about you. And so um we ordered the books and I dove into the magnetic leader to begin with. And you know, in my mind, I'm just gonna run through it, I'm gonna get through it. And I just really felt like, well, first of all, let me say the first thing that I noticed was that each chapter ends with this Jesus as the ultimate magnetic leader, and I was like, oh man, okay, God. Like this, because this is kind of the same trajectory of what we've been on the path with IOL. And I thought the same exact thing, like this must have been a challenge to to put this content in here because this isn't what I expected when I picked up this book. But I'm gonna tell you, it was so refreshing to me. And I thought I was gonna blow through this book, and I haven't. I have systematically and I think with God's direction, just slowly read this book and really, really just soaked it in. One because I I need to, we all I think I'm not just gonna say me, I think we all need to become a better leader. And there's all kinds of ways to learn how to do that. Um and and I'm sure people could say, oh, we're shamely, shamelessly plugging your book. I am, but also because it's good. Um, it is really good information, and I really had to stop at each chapter and just really, really think, okay, am I doing this? And if if I am, am I doing it well? And if I'm not, how do I do it? And to really kind of soak in. There's there's many chapters in this I've reread several times and just stopped and soaked it in and said, okay, how can I do better or be better? And then there's some of them I was like, oh yeah, I'm killing it at this one, you know, I got this one. And so it's really, really good at just the perspective um, am I doing and it and I want to be clear to you that like I sit currently in a in a CEO position for whatever you want to call that. I don't really know what the worth of that is at this point. But I say that because it's not just for me, it's for my team, it's for other people. It's learn how because there's all kinds of different leadership positions. But I think that the heart of it and what I love so much about it is that it goes to back to Jesus is the ultimate leader, and he is, and that's kind of been it was just really refreshing to open it up and see it. So whatever hesitation you had about it, which I know, I know that comes because it came from me. And we've talked about this in other podcasts when when I started the company and I just really felt so heavily the Holy Spirit was like, You need your tagline's gonna be serve God, serve people. And that was difficult for me. Not because I don't want to serve God, and not because I don't want to serve people because I've come from a corporate background like you, and it's just you know, it's what are people gonna say about that? But the things that people have said about have been amazing. Um, and it just solidified what God had put in my heart that this is really where you need to go. And so when I picked up this book and I opened it, I was like, okay. And and just God is so good and it is and it is amazing. We're not gonna give it all away because we do want you to buy it. But it is is truly one of the best books I have written read about leadership. It's really well written, short, bite-sized kind of pieces, which I like. That's one of my favorite things, where I can just kind of take that chapter and kind of marinate on it for a little bit. And then I don't feel like I'm lost when I pick it back up. And I really, really like that. So kudos to you, did good. I have not read the second book yet. Um, we were just talking about I finished this one finally. We have uh a unique situation that we have a lot of people with books that they're contacting us is funny, not funny.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, trying to keep up with everybody's books, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:37

Like I know, I'm like, well, I have I can only read so much at one time. And so um, we try to move through, you know, what we can, but we it's been a blessing too. We have so many um strategic partners, clients that have amazing books, and so that's been a real blessing and such a blessing to contact with you too. So, anyways, I just had to I had to kind of put that out there because that was I can only imagine what the hesitation was, not because your heart wasn't in the right place, just because I know you know, coming from the same kind of situation, like how difficult that decision is that you know God's telling you to do it, but you still, you know, you're like, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen. So I I say to you, kudos and and well done because it really spoke to my heart. And there is no better leader than than Jesus' leadership. So we can learn so much from that.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

So, anyways, I'll give it back to Sloan. So now I'm ready to talk about the way to greatness. And like Miss Amanda, I haven't jumped into that one yet, uh, but I am really excited. So that one, the way to greatness, focuses on five core areas that hold people back, and that's faith, relationships, mindset, stewardship, and time. How do those um how do those areas show up inside an organization when you have a leader that hasn't done the personal work in those areas? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Yeah. So so once again, the whole journey of my business, you know, that I talk about and and and even I I still it it almost feels silly like I'm like 11 years in and I feel like, okay, duh, I've missed this, right? Like, but I recently was able to, and once again, God put a woman in my path who threw another connection that just, hey, you ought to, you guys ought to talk. You have similar, you know, things and what you do, kind of things. And uh, she really helped me think through and just uh it was almost like an intro networking kind of call, but we had this conversation about all the content, all the things I've created, and what it how does it all make sense, right? And put it together. And so out of that, I'll say, is I came up with four phases of what I really teach and I and I'm gonna continue to develop content around is for phase one is lead yourself. Phase two is lead others, phase three is build culture, and phase four is multiply impact. So the way to greatness is really about phase one. It's about leading yourself. Phase two, with leading others, that's where magnetic leadership definitely falls into play. And then there's future books I got to, you know, already in my mind of what to do for the other two. But going back to your question, if a leader's life, personal life, isn't in a good working order, it's going to come to the office. It's going to come to the organization, right? If you have if you have issues that you're dealing with at home, they're coming to the office. You just can't avoid it. And that's the thing I feel like is one of those big misnomers in business, leadership, whatever, is that we can just compartmentalize and leave your work life at work and leave your home life at home. No, we're we're a holistic one person, right? So if you're having, if you have a sick spouse or you're going through challenges at home, if you have kids that are having issues, if you're what if you're having health issues or some kind of financial, whatever, all these things will affect how you show up. And that's where I didn't understand the connection, honestly, Sloane, for a long time. And my friend Mark, who's actually been my editor and even my writing coach, I call him, for both of these books, he has tried to help me for years to understand this. And I have resisted and fought him and all these things, right? Like even when you talk about how it's laid out and all this, and I'm like, I literally, the battles we went through to get these books to print, because he's like, Chris, he would just and he stayed with me, right? He stayed with me and helped me get to this point. And so in each of those five choices, I call them about you know, build your God core. I talk about in there when you go to the gym, you build your core so that the rest of your body can be strong, right? So faith is the core of our of our existence. Now, some people don't have the same faith we would have, but they have faith of some kind. They may not even recognize it as faith. But this is really what I call a life coaching, a faith-based life coaching book of sorts, very biblical, very deep, you know, biblically in it. But you know, building that God core. Then I talk about protecting your relationships, not just not just managing relationships, but truly protecting your relationships. And then I talk about your mindset, right? Renewing your mind. Paul talks in Romans 12 about renewing your mind, transforming your mind. I go into that. Then I go into you know managing your resources, being a good steward, because it's not just about money, even, it's about the stuff of life that we own and possess. And then finally maximizing your time because time is the only one renewable asset we don't have. You know, when it's gone, it's gone. And so basically, if a leader is struggling in any of these five areas, it's going to ultimately affect what they do when it comes to leading others. And so that's where the connection finally would. I tell people I'm slow, but I eventually get it, and I'm simple, and it'll finally click. But it did. And it finally, and so I think that's where a lot of this comes to play is the way to greatness is leading yourself in these areas, and then you can be ready and more equipped to lead others well, and that's where the way to great or the magnetic leader can come into play about this the essential actions of what to do.

SPEAKER_04 42:08

So basically, we read them backwards. That's what I'm taking from this.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

But I've quit, but you know, but here's the thing that's funny. It's like you're right, but I didn't even know that. For the like, literally would I've ignored. So here's what happened. Literally, I will tell you if this is the behind-the-scenes stuff of writing and publishing, right? I I launched my the way to greatness was launched on my birthday, September 6th, 2019. I had a big party, we launched it, it was great. I I started writing the way to the magnetic leader the next week.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

And I didn't give the way to greatness any airtime after I launched it. And I focused solely on the on the magnetic leader for all these years, primarily since then. And so it's almost like the way to greatness is the sidebar thing project I did. And yet what's crazy is, and I and I joke, but it's true, like I've had people tell me, Amanda, I have had to reread this book multiple times, or I've had to reread these, because in each of these five choices, what I I have a five-step action plan that you go through. So really, they're almost like five mini books, I'll call them booklets, maybe, because each one can you you don't you could just pick up a section and say, okay, I'm gonna talk about the financial side, or I'm gonna do the you know, from the stewardship side, or I'm gonna do the time. Like you don't have to read them in order, but you know, I do say the build your god court is the centerpiece of it all, you know, to start with for sure. But my point is that they are really like I had a woman, she she was one of my uh reviewers, and my before I ever published it, she's like, Chris, you gotta give me a workbook. There's two because I have a ton of questions and exercises.

SPEAKER_04 43:47

So I was just thinking, as you're talking about this, I'm thinking, okay, so we haven't read it yet. And I'm thinking, my team is gonna absolutely love me because we're about to do like a team, we're gonna go through this together. Um, the three of us. And walk through this together and kind of, you know, work it out. So yeah, we need a workbook, Chris. Where's the work?

SPEAKER_01 44:06

Well, I've got I just I do. I have I create a digital workbook. I do have a discussion guide, so I can send that stuff your way and you can be my test group for some of it.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

So what we'll do, our team will do it. We're gonna do the whole thing. Yeah, I'm just gonna say it right now. We're gonna do it, and then we're gonna come back. Our whole team will come back on here and we'll talk with you about it and tell you how it went. I think that's really good. Maybe it worked out that way on purpose that because I wouldn't have probably thought it otherwise. I probably would have just started reading through the book. So yeah, no, I think that would be really good. That'll be a really good thing for our team to do together. But and I was also thinking, too, again, I want to kind of go back to his because God just kind of really keeps putting my that on my heart. Learning about leadership is not just for the people at the top. And here's one of the reasons why, and I don't know, maybe somebody needs to hear this, but how do you know if you're in a situation, a job, whatever the case may be, where you're under poor leadership and you are just kind of enduring it because I've been there before where you know the leadership isn't great. Now I've had great leaders, don't get me wrong, but I've been in places where the leadership is not great and I've just endured it not knowing better because I wasn't well informed at the time. And so I think it's important regardless of status or place in corporate or however you want to um clarify that. It's important that we all learn what a good leader is. One, because you know, God might have in your path to be a leader who knew that you would be where you were, that I would be where I am, or Sloane would be where she is. And who knows what's gonna be in the future. So it's important to prepare your heart and your mind for those things. One, because you need to be aware of of the situations that you're in. Um, and that way, you know, you can listen to the Holy Spirit and say, okay, well, this is not a good leadership position. I really shouldn't stay here, shouldn't have to stay here. And also I think a good lesson from what you're talking about is sometimes you have to jump out and take that leap of faith, right? And do something different, even though it wasn't what you thought should be, or it might not be financially comfortable, you know. Um, it might just be something that you have to do regardless, or that you should do. So I just kind of was throwing that. I felt like that was I don't know, I f I felt like that was on my heart. Like you should know.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yeah, and I think too, you know, I think the one thing is you can only control what you can control, right? And you can't control other people. You can't one of the first leaders I worked under was he did a he was a he was a hard worker and he did a good job at what he did, but he was not a great leader of the team. And in fact, I was and I was it was my first full-time ministry job. I was a youth pastor, I was hungry to learn and grow, and I had mentors that were challenging me to keep growing. And and I I sat down with him and uh I'll never forget, I was at this restaurant with him, and I was frustrated with the state of things and how and I was trying to be honest and open with him, and and he said, Christian, your problem is you read too much. And I was 24, 25 years old at the time, and that that was the exact moment I resigned in my brain. I knew it was I knew I was done. And the reason I was done was because two of my mentors, who we'll talk about later, I think, is they basically told me when I was coming out of high school, Chris, leaders have to be continually growing, leaders are readers, yeah. And and so that was what I you know, and I believed it because I was experiencing it. And then I have this guy who I'm reporting to tell me that my frustration I I'd just be qu I wouldn't be as frustrated if I didn't read as much. And I'm like, this makes no sense to me. So you're right. It's so you might run into those situations, but to me, it's like whether it's about your long-term path or whether it's about you know just controlling the controllables, you know.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Every one of us we have to take responsibility for our own development.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Yeah. So it's that kind of thing that we just need to think you run into situations like that with like with that individual. Like there are people that you're going to run into through your lifetime and especially in business that do not want you to succeed. Um, they don't want you to become smarter, they don't want you to become better. And so you need to surround yourself with the people that go, Yes, I want you to do better, and I want you to learn better, and I want you to read and I want you to know. Um, but you are going to encounter people who don't want you to know. They don't want you to know how to to rise above or to be better or to grow or or to flourish in the situations that you're in. And and so it's important that you learn that in that path so that you can recognize it and go, This is not this is not the right place. So let's just talk just a little bit about and then we're gonna we're gonna be respectful of your time and other people's time too. But so on the other podcast you guys talked about how you know you came to know IOL and to know my dad and and Dr. Leander and and how that all came about. Um so if anybody wants to know that backstory, they can go and listen to that other episode. But then now you had kind of reached out when we opened IOL and we were kind of going back and forth and looking at the books and and the different things you do. You have a lot that you do. Uh you're very, very busy. You have courses on your website. Um, and we want to just implore everybody to go check it out. You also go into businesses and you do speaking and training. So I want you to talk a little bit about that because we kind of chose in our discussions that could do a tr a strategic partnership because we believe in what you're doing and what you're putting out there. And so, and we don't take that lightly. We're we're very careful. I wouldn't say we're snobby, we're just careful about you know, the people that we're partnering up with. Um, and so I want you to talk a little bit about what is it that you're teaching and training? I know it's leadership, but I want you to give us a little bit deeper dive. If somebody was interested corporately or small or large business, what would that look like? What is it?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I do work one-on-one with mostly the executive ownership levels. You know, I do some one-on-one with managers as part of a program if they need more one-on-one help. Uh for instance, right now, I'm wrapping up a series of one-on-one with a young leader. She's 28, she's in a big global company out of Germany. She took on a took on a very big project management situation that was a it was a development thing for her to stretch herself as well. She's done a great job, but but she was a young leader saying, Hey, I know I've never done this, so I want to grow and make sure I have support along the way. So, you know, working with her, working with small business owners who are just saying, Look, I don't have a I don't have a sounding board on, you know, on my team because we're very small, or I just need to have somebody outside, you know. So I do one-on-one executive coaching, that side of things, really just being that for them. As far as training-wise, you know, I have my magnetic leadership, what I call an academy, is basically walking through my magnetic leadership content. I've recorded it, I have a video course that uh component to it where the participants will watch lessons and you know, they have a workbook with that. And then I'm actually creating and enhancing it now with creating some more tools for each of the 18 essential actions that I think are going to be even more beneficial to participants and uh you know, people that that even just buy the course and do it on a self-study basis. Um, yeah, but with like I said, with the Maxwell organization, I'm licensed to teach a lot of John Maxwell's materials. And so I'm getting ready next week, actually, to go into a credit union and teach 35 of their managers on John Maxwell's book, uh, the leadership uh content about adaptability and flexibility as leadership. So I'm I've been, you know, I'm getting ready to go do that, which is exciting. So I have I have his resources that I'm licensed to use, lunch and learn, brief presentations. If you're saying, look, I just we just need something fresh to do with our team. Corporate retreats where you're saying, hey, I just want to give our, you know, we're going off site. I want to have some some leadership and personal growth training. So I kind of do, you know, I really try to customize, you know, to the need of my clients. So it, you know, I don't like to try to just create one thing for one time per se, but but at the same time, it's like, how do we implement and facilitate? I can do the group coaching on Zoom and and we can do group coaching calls, you know, I do it that way. And then I also do in-person workshops and speaking engagements too. If you have an association or an industry gathering that you're saying, hey, we we need a speaker on a topic or a breakout session. I've I've done a lot of those over the years as well. So a lot of it just comes down to kind of what is your event or what is your need, and then we'll figure out together what's the best content for your goal. And that, like you said, because I've got my own books and courses and resources for sure. I also the Maxwell, there's a lot of things I can bring to the table, but I always want to make sure it's serving you as the client best on what your goals are for your event or your team.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Yeah. And that's one of the things that I really love about the what the work you're doing and your model there is that it's really tailored to what what the organization or the person needs instead of just being, hey, this is just this one thing, this is what I have. You're really, really good about tailoring to what the what the needs of the people and the leadership and and their team.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

Yeah, I don't I don't like to force fit people into something and say, you know, it's because for me, honestly, it's like if I show up and they don't really care about it, you know, yeah, you might get paid to do it. But I'm like, what's the real impact of that? You know, and I'm and I'm you know, I look at and I started this from day one is I when I sit down with people to talk about whatever we're gonna do together, it's like I don't I can come in and do one-off things to help you, but I'd rather have a partnership with you to develop your people and to help you as an individual or your team. So that to me, that comes back to I think the heart of how I want to run my business is you know, it's it's not just about jamming and force fitting people into a box. It's what's best for you. And sometimes people come to me with they have this idea, but I'm like, you know what, maybe we ought to do this instead of that because of this. And they're like, makes total sense. So they can have an initial idea that might get even morphed and and shifted a little bit. But once again, I look at that as a very collaborative approach of what's best for your team and and what your goals are.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

Yeah, agreed. And and that's yeah, like I said, one of the things that I really love about what you do is that it's not, it's not a one size fits all. It's like, let's make it work for what you have going on. Um, all right. Well, we're gonna wrap up. Sloan, I'll let you go first.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

All right, Mr. Chris, who has had the greatest influence on your life or your leadership style and why?

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Yeah, I alluded to them earlier, but it was my it was my senior pastor and my youth pastor at my home church. Um D. Campbell was the pastor at our home church for 40 years. Uh Tommy Baker was our youth pastor for, he was the youth pastor for like 25 or 30 years. And and so they were long-term leaders in our in our church. They worked together for a long time and they grew the church, and and it was a it was a very welcoming and amazing place for me to grow up in that environment. I took it for granted, obviously, at the time, because I just thought that was normal and what I experienced, and I realized later it wasn't. So, but they were both very instrumental. In fact, my wife and I are married because of them. You know, we were we were on a bus trip to watch Kentucky play Tennessee and basketball, and and that she was getting on the bus with her family. It was a church trip we took every year for a while, and they were like, You need to be hanging out at her house. And I was like, Who are you talking about? And she was a couple years younger, and uh we met on that trip, and uh we started dating the next week, and we're getting ready to celebrate our 25th anniversary, and we've been together 31 years since then.

SPEAKER_04 56:08

So, you know, we were Congratulations, you guys. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Thank you. Yeah. So anyway, but they were but but once again, they they modeled for me all these things I'm talking about of being a grow continual growing leader and learner, and then helping other people be the same. And so they were they were the foundation. Like I once again, I've had other great people I've worked with along the way too, but they if it weren't for them, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

Right. So we typically ask when you think about legacy that you're building, what do you hope people will say? And I think I'm gonna let you answer too, but I want you to know that you I I believe you've already built a legacy. You've built something that people can take with them. And it's not just a book that I can put in my bag and carry with me. It's the information that I need to be a better leader or to know what a good leader looks like when I when I encounter one that's not or that I can help mentor and help shape people. I think you've already created a legacy in that. And I love what you're doing. The more that I dive deeper into the stuff that you've written and the stuff you're doing, just the better it gets and the more I learn. And so yeah, I I think we have this conversation so that maybe I would have our team do this walk through the next one instead of just doing it individually. And I love that. But I'll let you answer too, and then I'll let Sloan um follow up with closing this out.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

I I when I was when I started to really grow as a leader, I had this image in my mind that I said, I want to be the wise old guy when I'm 80 years old that people come to and seek advice and counsel and just be the guy that's worth coming to, right? Like that, that was that was uh I I literally at 20 some years old. I was thinking that you know, 50, 60 years down the road, I want to be that guy. Um, you know, John Maxwell said something, and I used to have this as a I printed up on a piece of paper to put on my wall at my first actually my first job was there's no success without a successor.

SPEAKER_07 58:05

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

To me, that's that is like like for me, it was like actually when I left when I left that youth pastor job that I was telling you the story about, sure, the guy who followed me did a much better job than me, quite honestly. But he was a friend of mine and I recommended him to be considered, and they hired him, which I thought they were very wise to do, and he did a great job. And he had he actually was a little bit older than me, he had more experience than me already, but I really had seen what he had done in our community because he was a young life leader in our community, and then I and then he became a youth pastor at the church after me. And I was always thrilled and excited to watch how they were growing after I left. I'd been there four years. He, I think he was there, I forget five to ten years, somewhere in there. But I felt like I came in and I built on a foundation of who had built before me. And I wanted to make sure that when I left, I wanted to leave well, and I wanted to make sure that as much as I could control, that it was passed off and handed to somebody else who would build on that. And they, and that was a very good picture for me of it of it being done well. And to me, it wasn't like he was, I wasn't responsible for him being a great leader there, but it it really just reiterated that the succession plan matters. And so for me, from a legacy standpoint, you know, for me, I've got a 20-year-old son who's a sophomore, finished up in sophomore year in college. I got a senior in high school getting ready to graduate in a couple weeks. I've got a daughter who's a sophomore in high school. So I look at it from a family standpoint. Obviously, I want to build a legacy that they want to, you know, see me as a model. Well, my grandfather was actually dying of cancer when I was 14 years old. I watched him live out his faith in a way that I'd never seen anybody do. And I had I had accepted Christ when I was younger. I'd grown up in a Christian home, but it was what he was dying was when I realized I want to be, I want to be that guy. Yeah. When I'm when I'm his age and beyond, right? And I saw him and how and my dad is actually my dad is 10 years older than him, even now. So he's you know had a healthier, longer life, thankfully. But my dad has been uh not an exact replica, but the characteristics that I see in him and my other uncles are like what my grandfather had modeled and done. And I and now I want to be that, right? And carry that forward, and my kids to carry that forward. So for me, it's about just being every day, living the life of faith that I have and and being an example. And just like you, like you say, there's these hard days where you're like, I don't think that, like, I don't even know what I'm doing. Like, what in the world is happening? And then I have these conversations with people, and they're like, Chris, that what you said here, what you did there, and it's like it made such a difference. I'm like, we need to hear that, right? We need to speak that to people too, because people don't hear it enough of how they are impacting people. And so speaking that life into people, I think, is huge. And for me, I'm not that I'm perfect by any means about doing that, but I'm trying to be intentional with it. And being a model, you know, I do daily videos on Instagram and LinkedIn, I put out there, and they're like two-minute videos, and and they're certainly not highly produced or anything, but it's like, you know what? I put it out there and I'm like, you know what? Somebody needs to hear this, probably. And I don't know who they are, I don't know when they need to hear it, but you know what's funny? I did the I do those videos thinking about executives and leaders. You know who's following me that I didn't even imagine? Teenage, teenage friends of my kids.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:40

And they're probably learning so much from you, and that you know, you don't even know the impact. I think you've really uh you're really doing an amazing thing. And I think that sometimes we're doing amazing things in because of and in spite, we don't even know that we're doing those things, you know. And so um, kudos to you. It's it's such an honor to to be in contact with you and to learn from you and and to grow and have these conversations. I have no doubt that we're gonna have more of them. And so, yeah, I just thank you for coming on today. And like I said, it's like I I kind of work myself up in these conversations, I don't know what to expect. And then we have it. I'm like, that was so good, I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

So you can only you can only prepare and plan for what you can.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

Let it go, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

I know. God is really working on me.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:31

Well, Chris, thank you so much for uh joining me and Miss Amanda today, and we'll make sure that everybody has your website. They can find you on LinkedIn, we'll get you those links to his books. If you haven't signed up for his magnetic Monday newsletter, we're gonna have that link for you. It's great. Miss Man and I both get it and we learn something every time. And then also Chris has his own podcast, so we'll make sure that you can find that. Be sure to like and subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you never miss an episode. Go ahead and like and subscribe for for Chris and for Lead with Legacy here. But you can also support this podcast so we can keep bringing you conversations like this one and the support link will be below. But thank you to Chris again. Thank you for your time. Thank you to our listeners. We hope that this conversation means just a fourth of what it meant to us this morning, and we appreciate everyone's time. So thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:25

Yeah, it's funny too, because I'll get on the conversation. So I feel like we could keep going for three hours, but I know people don't want to listen to us for three hours. But I I'm so grateful. Um, Sloan, thank you for your time today. And and Chris, thank you. Let's come back on when we get done with the way to greatness and we'll talk about it. All right.