Human-Centered Leadership with Dr. Ellen Ramsey | #LeadWithLegacy | Episode 27

What does it mean to lead with both competence and compassion?

In this episode of the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast, Amanda Chambers and K. Sloane Lott sit down with Dr. Ellen Ramsey, professor, executive coach, consultant, and creator of the CREATE Leadership Model, to discuss human-centered leadership, emotional intelligence, resilience, trust, self-awareness, and the importance of helping others feel valued.

Drawing from decades of experience in academia, executive coaching, consulting, and industry leadership, Dr. Ramsey shares practical insights on leading with integrity, building trust, embracing lifelong learning, and developing healthier workplace cultures.

Topics discussed include:

• Human-centered leadership
• The CREATE Leadership Model
• Building trust and alignment
• Emotional intelligence and self-awareness
• Leading through adversity
• Toxic positivity versus authentic encouragement
• AI, leadership, and maintaining human connection
• Coaching, mentoring, and personal growth
• Developing future leaders
• Creating a lasting legacy

This conversation is filled with wisdom for leaders at every stage of their journey.

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🔗 Connect with Dr. Ellen Ramsey:

LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellenramseyphd/

Website:
https://ellenramseyphd.com/

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Lead with Legacy, the official podcast of IOL Global. Here we will explore leadership that outlives titles and trends. Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we will discuss integrity, conviction, and purpose. To learn more about us, visit us at iOLglobal.com. Hello, welcome to this episode of the Lead with Legacy podcast. We're so excited today to have Dr. Ellen Ramsey. We met a couple years ago via LinkedIn and we were on a project together. And we just kind of got to know each other. We kind of fellowship back and forth via emails and messages and stuff. And she's definitely was high on the list to have on this podcast. She's so brilliant, so intelligent. And so we're going to do a little shameless plug. If you haven't liked and subscribed, or if you haven't followed us on whatever platform you're listening on, please do so. Um we would love to have you be a part of that and be a part of future conversations that we're having. Um, if you ever want to be on the show, contact us. We'd love to talk to you about being on the show. This is just an easy conversation kind of podcast, just to talk about leadership and different things that people have going on what they utilize in their leadership journey in the past, what they utilize now, lessons learned over the over the time in different kinds of leadership models. So without further ado, I thank you so much for coming um today and joining us on here, Ellen. And um, I'm gonna let you take a little time to tell you just tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you, what do you do, where are you at, all this kind of whatever you want to share.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Thank you so much, Amanda and Sloan. I really appreciate being on here and just sharing of ideas and whoever can learn from whatever we talk about or or what have you. But I guess this span, I always remember that what have you done between the dash born and hopefully many years uh ahead. But I've been in industry, I've um a college professor with leadership and management courses, mostly MBA, and also our undergrads and their capstone guiding the future leaders of tomorrow, I would guess I'd say. But I have so many different environments that I've been in over the last 30 some odd years that it's been a real great moment for me to see what's worked for others, what hasn't, what you can learn positively, and what you can learn from negative outcomes that you've witnessed of leaders who don't really do a great job of feeding the soul or making their employees feel valued and appreciated. So from that, that's uh where I learn from what to do uh for future people.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Yeah, yeah. And so you are in Florida. Yes. Which we're super jealous about, but that's okay. Just it's just because we're in the middle of the United States, and so we're jealous that you're in Florida. And so um, let's just talk a little bit about your work, your um, I know you just spoke a little bit about it. You do teaching, executive coaching, consulting. What experiences most shaped your understanding of leadership and your desire for others to grow?

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Well, I wouldn't say one specific example. I would say over time, even when I led a radio program with uh finance, it's just about different people that come into our lives unexpectedly, like you and I. Never know we would have met and made a beautiful friendship from there and a uh respect for one another. Yeah. And so I would say what shaped me is also my professors, you know, as far as using the uh the golden rule or um, I don't want to say the word scare tactics. They they might have been a sweetheart, but in the classroom there was a way to guide you so that you could uh think quickly on your feet. So uh different examples like that have shaped me, as well as what kind of instructor would I like to be for my students. And the value that I see is when I receive my course evaluations that are consistently high and what they've learned, and then they come back to me years from then, from now, also through LinkedIn, I it makes warms my heart that okay, I've made a a positive impact in their lives because I respect them as well. It's not like an authority figure, okay. You're taking my class because you want the education, also the MBA students that might be even older than me coming back uh into the into the academia. So I just lead, I'm a person of faith, so I lead when I put my head on the pillow at night. What do I want to say how I've treated others? And that's just whether it be personal life, work life, people that I might meet at the grocery store. It's just that how I lead my life. And it's uh not to say there's perfection at all.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

You have learning there's no perfection at it. But yeah, I do think I think it makes a difference when you you have that kind of mindset of, you know, we're leading as a Christ follower because we're leading. We talked about this on another show, maybe more than one, but you know, in my opinion, Jesus was like the prime example of, you know, a leader. And so if we follow that example, I think that the the better we try to follow it. And again, like you said, there's no perfection in it, right? But the better we try to follow that leadership example, our leadership will improve. The way that we deal with other people, the way that we deal with ourselves when emotions are high, or there's, you know, like this morning, we just had a what seemed like a thousand things, you know, before we ever even started. Phones were dinging, messages were dinging, this and that. But it it's a matter of like, how do you deal with those situations? And and when our emotions, and I'm look, I I'm not an expert at it, but it's just trying to navigate, okay, like nothing is anybody's fault. We just need to correct and and and move this way or that way. Um and I can imagine when you're when you're teaching students, because I I have not, well, other than kids, I haven't taught with adults, but I have worked with so many of you who do. And I can imagine that you kind of have to take a different take on it when you're dealing, like you said, with your peers or with people that are even older than you and trying to train them and teach them. You can't be like, oh, you're gonna do this this way, and you know, be that authority in it, versus, I mean, there has to be a happy medium, right? There's gonna be, but but people will respect you um if you lead well. And so yeah, I I I'm so honored and blessed to know you. I I think the world of you um very, very highly. I follow you. Um, I think other people should follow you in the stuff that you're doing. You you're brilliant and very humble in it. Um I'm gonna let Sloan ask a few questions here and kind of get involved. Sloane is our director of operations with um in the Institute for Organizational Leadership, which is IOL Global. And she is the brains and the power behind all the things that we're doing. She's amazing. So we're gonna let her kind of ask some questions so that you can stop listening to me for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Well, good morning. I'm excited to jump in here. I want to talk to you a little bit about the create leadership model and the create leadership compass that you developed. So, what inspired you to create those frameworks and what do they help leaders see about themselves?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Well, what it inspired me is that, you know, through theory and textbook and knowledge that we've gained in academia, I've seen many men develop models and ways of behavior. And that's fine. But I'm saying, where are all the women? And not not to use a gender issue at all. And again, when we were talking about Christ, that that's just what I follow in my academia. I don't, you know, push my views on anyone with politics as well. It's the students to grow and let them find out. But I feel if I lead by example, that's just who I am. And, you know, Jesus was a gentle soul. So that's how I interpret uh life and would like to be, you know, treat others as you'd like to be treated. So that's exactly my theme. But getting back to the create leadership model, I thought, well, what better way, other than just textbook theory and just, okay, this is a model, but how do you treat others and human-centered leadership? So I came up with this framework and CREATE as an acronym, C-R-E-A-T-E, for different avenues so that leaders can decide, okay, how I'm working, but how can I improve? And just it's a it's not just an assessment, but it's uh it's a framework to lead by. So I thought, and I've been I had a pilot study also with a CEO that had contacted me. And I'm so thrilled to work with him and his team because they were also, you know, in an engineering aspect. So they had the technical and some were great with the leading, but others weren't because they weren't uh based on uh self-reliance or or emotional awareness, reading a room. You know, you had the brilliance, but then how you talk to others can also affect how they uh, you know, are working on, you know, if you're stressed or yelled at, just say, not that this happened, but just generally, you know, how are you going to, you know, you know, I don't want to work I don't want to work under those conditions and then your morale, you know, as far as you want the uh sunny days rather than the dark cloud. So that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

People are much more apt to to take criticism if it needs to be given, because we all need some criticism, right? I don't even know if criticism is the right word as constructive feedback. Yeah. I mean, look, there's not a day that goes by that I don't need that too, you know. And so I think that people are more apt to receive that well if we're generally leading well and we're not doing like the whole screaming, yelling, throwing a fit, you know, you didn't do this right, it was wrong, or, you know, the feeling of being unworthy at your job or what you're doing. Because, like you're saying, you're dealing with brilliant people, right? Who are brilliant in their own right, but they might only be brilliant with this one thing because they haven't expanded their knowledge to these emotional intelligence kind of things and being aware of the way that they're behaving or the way that they're acting, or maybe even just the way that it comes off, right? Because I know that sometimes as me, just like if I have a thousand things going on, it's not that I'm not caring. I just my brain is in a different place. And I think that happens a lot of times with really technical people too, is that their brain is so honed in on what they're working on, they're not really thinking about like, well, what does Ellen think about what I'm thinking about or whatever, you know? And so learning those skills are learnable, they're trainable. So I like that you've created that too, and that you're willing to kind of get in the trenches and and deal, you know, like teach people how how to manage that kind of stuff. Sorry, I kind of took over, but I I like that idea.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Well, not at all. It's a conversation. I don't want to be on a a pulpit at all. There's there's things that I can still learn. We're constantly learning. A PhD doesn't mean, okay, checkpoint, you're done. You know, you can't. You're constantly learning from others. And a title to me, okay, not to say sound philosophical, but when we pass, we don't take our titles or or other um monetarily stuff with us, you know. So what do we leave behind? What what is it that can be written about us or how others felt in our presence? And yes, you can't be, you know, you're not an automaton robot where you're going to be perfect always, but you can learn, and it's not toxic positivity like positive all the time. Yeah. You learn, and that's how leaders can learn also from experiences. The more experiences, there's growth. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

And I think that too, the um, the the freedom, the comfort of the space to be in. I know like Sloan and I, we work very, very closely together almost every day. And so it's like this the opportunity just to be real and be who you are. And I love her for who she is. I'm grateful for her for who she is. Um, and that does not mean she's perfect, but it means that, you know, she is real about who she is. This is, you know, this is my strength, this is my weakness. I'm not good at this, but I'm great at this. And and just being able to kind of flow through that and learn from each other too, and be respectful of who each other, you know, who our teams are. Um and and how they like to work and how they work well. I think a lot of times we try to put people in a box and go, hey, I want you to do this this way, only this way. And it's like, well, if you would let them have a little bit of room outside that box, they might do amazing things that you're not letting them do.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Absolutely. Yes. Even talking about team dynamics, that's a whole other topic. But it's true. It's like, again, you can't just cookie-cutter people in a cookie-cutter type of framework because emotions might run high, or there are people that aren't extroverts and they internally have brilliant ideas as well, but not given the time or the ability to have that growth. Because if you don't have experiences, it just can stay stagnant. So communication and trust is so important because once trust erodes, that's really hard to get that back, whether it be in business or professional, uh personal lives.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

You mentioned toxic positivity, and I'm so glad you did, right? Because we have it is a real thing, right? It is a real thing. And so I know that if I come in and I'm really struggling with something, you know, and if if Miss Amanda was like, everything's great, it's perfect, everything's great, keep going, you know, live, laugh, love, glitter, you know, all time. She's not, by the way. But then I would think, oh, well, it's me. It's just me. It was just me, you know. And so those emotions that we bring into our workplace, because we are humans, like you said, we're not robots. You know, you think, oh, that's just me. And so you you cram it down and it festers. But we do have a great relationship. We work very closely together. And I can say, you know what? This morning has been really stinky. Can we just stop and pray? And we do, you know, and so, or if I'll be over there huffing and puffing, she'll say, Why don't you just take a lap? And I'm like, that's what I need. Yes, I need a lap. I don't need, I don't need a plaque that tells me just to fake it till I make it. You know, I need to get up, out of my seat, get a cup of coffee, take a break. And so we do have to be careful with that positivity. It's necessary, but it has to be authentic, right? And but we do have to recognize when people aren't in a positive situation and maybe the outlook isn't positive, and how can we minister to them in that moment? And so that's very important.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Exactly. And also being able to be aware of someone, even if you've known them a while, you could say something doesn't seem right with them. Let me talk with them. Or if you don't know them well, you can just say, is everything okay? Or what can I do to assist, or what can I make this class or this um uh I'm talking about academics, how can I make the class more enriching? Or if you're working with your team, how can this be more enjoyable for you as we reach the bottom line and the scope of the project? We have outside lives as well, and that can affect what's going on in the company. So how can we not to say separate it, but we care about you as a human being, not just okay, the deliverables, get this done and go home. You know, how do we support you as one of our uh teammates? So that's and people I can tell the difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

I think for a long time we had this kind of like, you know, I guess culture of like, oh well, home is at home and work is at work. And I think to an extent that that's true, right? Because when we come to work, we need to focus, we need to be focused on the job that we're doing. But I think that it got too stringent because I have a life, you know, I have a family, I have things going on. There's, you know, I got a, you know, my car broke down or this happened or that happened or whatever. That's real life. And I think we tried for a while there um as a society to like really, really separate the two. And I don't think that you really can. I think that if you're a leader, you need to know your team. If you, if your team is 10 or 100, now you're not if you have a hundred people that you're leading or that you, you know, you're managing or whatever, you're not gonna know every single detail. But I do think it's your job to know. Um, I think it's your job to know those people well enough to go, hey, you seem a little off today. Like you said, what's going on? Is there something we can help with? And then I think as as leaders, as C-suite, um, as teachers, as instructors, it's our job to not only be in tune to that, but to have some like fail-safes for that. Like, hey, I'm so sorry you had like you had a bad day. Now, in academia, of course, you're gonna have people who are like, oh, you know, my car broke down and my kid's sick of this, and it's every other day. And you you're gonna have to put a stop to that. But when you know your people well, you know when somebody is off um and there's something going on. And I think that, in my opinion, it's the people that as leaders will pour into that and say, hey, you know what? Don't even worry about it today. Don't worry about this day. Go do what you need to do with your family or your car or whatever needs to be done, and let's regroup tomorrow. And one of the reasons why is let's say Sloane has some major thing going on, and I know that she's reliable. I know she I can count on her to be here and to do the things that she needs to do or to get them done remote or whatever the case may be. But she comes to me and she says, hey, we have this major thing, it's an issue. If she tries to work during that time, she's not going to be very productive in the work that she does, right? And so is it better off for me, the business, her, the whole, our clients, everybody, for her just to take a break, do what she needs to do to solve that problem or to come down from that issue or whatever it is, and then come back and regroup and start again. And in my opinion, I think when you're attuned to your teams or the people that you're close with or that you're leading or training, you're gonna get a lot more productivity out of that. I think you have to set boundaries and you have to say, look, you can't call in five times a week, you know, what we're gonna have a problem. Or when the tenth time you've called in because there's a problem, you're taking advantage of me. But I think that in most cases, if we're really attuned and we're really looking out for people and kind of looking out for the situation as a whole, they're more apt to be honest and upfront with you and say, you know, this is the situation.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Absolutely. And um, people can tell the difference between being authentic and really truthful and honest versus uh those who are just saying certain things just because they think that's the way it should be. You need to have empathy for others because if we don't put ourselves in someone else's shoes, and I I don't want to sound like a cliche, but it's true. Even I have some exercises on you might not be thinking a specific way about this type of person. If you were them, how would they handle a situation? And then it just like makes opens your eyes a little bit more. And then when we also talk about if you will say business is business on the flip side as well, how can you be one way at home and then unethical in business? It's just like not a not a a great way to be. Because how do you sleep at night knowing that you're I don't want to say that I don't want to say screwing over somebody, but whatever the word I can't think, you know, as far as your clients or or even um competitors, I mean, people, there's enough to go around as far as not having to be so, you know.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

I mean, as a general rule, just in generalities as a society and as humans and all of that, it's it's good to just be good to one another, right? But if we're going to biblical principles, then it's even more so important that regardless of the circumstances, that we're doing the right thing. We're we're doing what we should. Even if, even if the bottom line and the dollar amount or whatever is not in our minds going to come out the way that it should, if you're doing, if you, if you're following Christ and your business as well, you're gonna be rewarded for that in ways that you can't even imagine. And it and it may not be money. It may be really, really great teammates, it may be facility, it may be other blessings that come. But if you're doing the right thing for the right reasons, I'm not gonna say it's all gonna work out because we all we all have to walk through things, right? There's gonna be things we're gonna walk through. Um so I don't want to give like a false um kind of a false gospel there that oh, like if you if you just do the good things, good things about no, it's probably not gonna be like yeah, and yeah, in my experience, it's you know, there's you're gonna get hit with a lot of stuff. Um, but there's a difference there. There's kind of a core difference internally, I think, that you know that regardless if it's today or six years from now, God's gonna work this all out for his good, not mine. It's not about me. It's about what his plans are and what his goals are. So if I'm following that, then it will eventually work out um for what his plans are. So Sloane, what you got for us next?

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Sleeely, this kind of touches back on that being authentic and having textbook knowledge, you know, but then being emotionally intelligent. Many executives are strong, right? They're in strategy and execution, but they struggle with that trust and alignment. And what uh what patterns do you see when leaders reach the point where their technical skills and I don't know, what do we want to call them, human skills when when they level out? What do you see?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

When you say level out, when you're saying they're they're not aligned, or what happens when they when they become aligned.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Well, when they become aligned. Yes, what are we seeing that's different? What for the team, for themselves, their leadership style?

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Well, it just seems there's more harmony because uh I know when you have business, you have to look at the end result and the bottom line. And of course, that is about money many times, but it's also about performance, it's also about longevity. You know, you could have a client that you get the money, but you treated them poorly, or you didn't get what they wanted, and they'd go to somebody else. Right. But if they see you consistently, uh they know if someone's acting. So if you're consistently behaving the way that you should be ethically, moral, Marley so forth, you you can't act like that. When they say sometimes it takes three months for someone's true colors to come out, depending, right? So if you're consistently a certain leader, that will show through with your team. Even with the CEOs, the CFOs, if you're consistent that human uh aspect does uh take place. Now I know there's AI, there's positives about AI with performance, as far as, you know, let me let that do the mundane thing so I can get back to what really matters. And so if people are using it for the good versus evil, that's where I I guess I have the rose-colored glasses on. Like this is this can work well. I mean yeah. Yeah. People who know AI might take the jobs or those who just don't want to learn more of the technology and how can that benefit uh the team and the bottom line. So as far as aligning, uh it just it's just something that clicks. Then it's also about more more examples that you have.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, I agree with that too. And I think like let's switch over because we had some questions about AI too. Okay. And we can talk a little bit about that because I know it's like super hot topic, everybody wants to talk about it. We uh we feel very much the same. We use a lot of AI. Um, we are we have some strategic partnerships with a couple of people who are deep into AI training, AI governance and things like that, and just using it wisely, using it well, being proponents of training their teams. And I'll let Sloan speak about this too, because she's she's very knowledgeable about this subject matter. But I would say the same, it's it's it's a tool and it's a matter of how you use it, right? I could take any tool and use it poorly or bad or for for things that are not good. And so it's important. Um, and again, I'll let Sloan kind of talk more about this, but it's important that we use these tools wisely. We use them for what they're, you know, what I believe they're intended for, but that we don't replace our people with them, that we train our people how to use them. So Sloan, I'll I'll let you talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

No, I had a great uh conversation the other day with uh Matt Zimbreski, who does is it leading agility, the AI Yeah, AI agility is this company. AI agility. And it was great, and we talked about using AI, like you said, to get to the mundane stuff, right? Like I can use AI to summarize and file emails, and I can spend time face to face with people and really develop those relationships that that you need to be authentic and real. And and we do need a certain level of depth with that so that we can continue to work together and meet the bottom line, even when it's hard, right? So definitely I am a a fan of AI, I am a proponent of that. I am not a proponent of the mundane work, so yes, I let it do that so that that people can be people. But I really like that. I do want to ask you. So your company is called Silver Lining, and I love that. Silver lining, coaching and consulting. What does finding the silver lining mean in your work with leaders and organizations?

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Well, it's about I know when you think the silver lining, if some there's adversity or something that happens, it's like, okay, let's look at what's the best scenario from this outcome. As we were talking earlier, growth happens after you have certain experiences that might not go the way as planned, but how do you grow from that? And what do you learn from that? So the silver lining to me is letting them know, okay, if you come to me with an issue or a, I don't want to say problem, but it is some most of the time, how can we get our team to align and have that human connection? You you learn from the past and how you move forward together as a unit. So that's the way it's almost like having that positive sound. There's always a silver lining no matter what we go through. There's always a rainbow after the rain. So that's how I like to look at life. That's how I like to look at if I'm helping a CEO or helping their uh leader of their team, let them know, okay, you're human and you have resilience. But it's also about being there for others and just, you know, don't be so hard on yourself because if you have the right feelings about what you're doing, then everything else should flow. And we just always learn. So it's always a learning curve as well as what we've done in the past and how we can move forward from that. Past performance is not always a guarantee of your future results. However, consistency does matter as well as having your self-regulation through life.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Self-regulation is important. I yeah, I worked on that this morning. Total transparency. Still working on self-regulation. Have done it this morning, check.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

So we're laughing because we just have, I mean, and not bad, right? It's just like, you know, when the whole day starts with like this is this and this, and like he said, I don't know, is it an issue? Is it a problem? I don't know what it is. But I think sometimes for me for sure, I don't like change. And so it's really, really I have a hard time. Like, I don't know if you've ever, if you've ever read that book, Who Moved My Cheese? You should read it if you haven't. Everybody should that's listening, it's great. But it's like my stuff is here. This is, I have my day planned out in my head, right? Like the night before, every day I start, I have my list, my task list that I'm gonna do. So if I can't, like, there are some days I'm better at this than than other days, but if I can't come in and like start working down my list and this happens and that happens, like I get really like, I don't want to, I don't know how to describe it. I'm like discombobulated. Like, oh my gosh, like I don't it's have a hard time getting back to where I was supposed to be. And when I get kind of derailed like that, and I'm not saying like it's always negative things, it's just like anything if you changed it. And so it's something that I, it's a lifelong issue for me that I have to work on. But when you were talking about the the silver lining, I'm reminded of a book that I used to read with my dad when I was really little, and I have looked for this book high and low. I don't know the name of the book. All I can tell you, maybe, maybe somebody listening could figure out what book this is and let me know a link that may I don't know if you can get it anymore or not, because this is you know a hundred years ago. But um, so in the book, there was some kind of character, and so there would be like a situation that happened, right? And then the little character would be like, Well, it could always be worse. And you would turn the page and something happened, and the little character would be like, Well, it could always be worse, and you just keep going and going and going through this book like that. And I I I wish I knew the book, but anyways, and it's probably a little different than I remember it, I'm sure. But this is what I remember of it. But I my takeaway from that is like not to be a humdrum about it, but like to stop and take a minute, like look around, get your surroundings. Could it, I mean, it could be worse, right? I mean, not to say that there's not really terrible things that happen, don't get me wrong. I'm saying like in your everyday, but it could be worse. And so sometimes we just need to take a step back and just say, okay, it's really not that bad that my quote unquote proverbial cheese got moved today. We can handle all of this and we can deal with all of this. And so sometimes it's a good reminder to me to just kind of step back and go, okay, like it could be worse than this. It's okay. It's gonna be all right. And so I really going back to the silver lining thing, I really, really love what you do. I know we've talked about this in the past. Highly, highly recommend your services. I I think what you do is amazing. And you really are a very positive person. I know that that's difficult when we go through trials in our life, but I think that that's part of our refining process, right? I think that's what God's, you know. I don't, I'm not, I'm not a proponent of like, oh, God's putting bad things in your path. No, I think we go through things because we are a fallen world, but it's how we go through those things and the refinement that we have in those things. And I'm not gonna go into personal details, but I know that we've we've all been through some things. Um, and going through those things is is how we refine who we are, the person that we choose to be or want to be. In my opinion, that's how I know, and it's a long process, and every day it's not the same, right? Every day I'm not like, oh, okay, so positive and it's so great. There's some days when I'm like, you know, the sky is falling, the sky is falling. But I do think it's a general idea and a general mentality of, hey, we're we're gonna work through this, we're gonna get through this, it's gonna be all right, it's not the end of the world.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Absolutely. But if you look at the news or social media, it seems like everyone is out to get you, and that that can't be the case because like it's who you put yourself around. Show me your friends and I show you you. I know I'm giving these little quotes, but it's true in life, and you know, we have had tragedies, and I'm sure people wouldn't even realize what's gone on if they knew with my smiling face. But I try to be like want people to to feel that value and appreciation, even my co-workers. And um getting off of where I was going with this, but it's just a matter of uh staying true to you, and also even though I was just saying, oh, it could be worse, but we have to be good to ourselves because we can have burnout, and I I don't I know what that feeling is going, going, going. And then all of a sudden your mind just feels like something's going like this, and you just can't focus. So you have to reset and recharge and know what's good for you because, like they say, put the oxygen mask on first, or you don't run your car without fuel till the end, what's gonna happen? Yeah, so you just have to make sure you treat yourself kindly, how you treat your best friend, treat yourself, put yourself on a calendar, you know, block out the time you need because things do happen, it's not always the set schedule. So you've got to prepare. You don't hope a hurricane comes, but you've got the supplies just in case.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Right. And what like what's the buzzword, like pivot? You have to be able to pivot. Everybody likes to use that word. Pivot. So all right, Sloan, you have anything for that?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

No, I think you guys covered it. That was beautiful. Yeah. I I like that, but yeah, the pivot. I'm still working on the pivot.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

That's a very AI uh word. That's a very chat GPT word, the pivot.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

It makes me think of friends.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Wasn't there a friends episode where it was pivot? Yeah, Ross was with the ch the uh couch trying to pivot down the um up the steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

That's exactly that's what it makes me think of.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

Not AI, not technical. Makes me think of Chat GPT because like it's not doing it so much now, but for like when it first came out, it was like every single thing that it would like pivot, pivot, pivot. I'm like, please stop. What's the other word that resonated? Resonate. Resonate. Resonate and pivot. Okay, we got off on a tangent there.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Go ahead. You do have a project management background, and a lot of the people that we work with and and get to speak with, they also come from a project management background. How does that discipline strengthen executive leadership?

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Um, not everyone has the project management background. Simplifying it, even if you don't have the uh credentials or the certifications, everyday life, whether you're a mom or a CEO, there's projects. So you have to be able to balance, have to be able to know what the scope of that project is, have your deliverables, you know, have the timeline. So, in one way, that balance is having the leadership. Leaders should know when you're leading or even managing your team where we want to be, where the timeline is, but also make room for the things that happen that we're not planning on having. So, and the emotions of your team, having that resilience, leading with humanity. All of those characteristics do come together with a full recipe of a great product. So having to just keep those in mind is what's important rather than again just looking at the words on on a list or a handout. That that you can have your notes, but life life happens and it's never going to be that that it's expect. That's why they even say with project management, you have to also plan for the other outcomes that might happen and how do you move instead of saying pivot, how do you change so that you keep on that direction, keep on seeing the finish line. And nobody's gonna want to say pivot now that I said that.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

So I'm kidding. You can use the word pivot and resonate if you want to. So when you're talking about project management, though, that's why it's also really, really important to like continue to learn and grow and to kind of have that kind of extenuating, extensive growth path. I think we can go like with anything, it can get too big, right? Like we're just doing too much, we're trying to do too much learning development. Um, it gets overwhelming. But I think there, I know last summer um I took some time, I had some downtime, and I took some time just sat outside in the sun by the pool with my laptop. Um, and I took some uh product management courses, which for those of you who aren't in that space, like there's project management where you're managing a project, and then there's product management where you have a product, like a tangible thing, whether it's you know, a book or a phone or you know, whatever the product itself is, and you learn how to best approach the development of those products as well as the branding of the products. I spent some time, about a month and a half, maybe two months, like really, really diving deep into that just for myself, just because I wanted to know. What I didn't know at the time was that that God had this trajectory planned and that I really needed that time to really kind of hone in on some of those skills that I've been doing for a long time, but didn't really know like the proper language for it or the proper output for it. And so my point being in that rambling is that it's important that sometimes we do step back and we take that opportunity um to do just some personal learning and development on different topics. And I know, like with in your teaching and your training and your coaching, you advocate for that as well. And of course, you know, with degrees and and in the in the academic space and things like that. Um but I think sometimes it's just like, okay, get what are you interested in? Sit down, take a break, learn about it, um, just to kind of keep your mind and your your skills sharp and things, or learn something new, learn something you don't know anything about. So, anyways, my point in that is, you know, regardless of whether it's project management or not, I think part of that discipline is just continuing to hone in on, you know, learning and development and and what can I grow from? And then you you might be just shot into a totally different trajectory, you never know. Um, I love that you I know I know that you're a big proponent for that, and I love that you are. So I'll let you speak to that a little bit too.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Absolutely. As far as self-reflection, we have that a lot in our leadership and management specializations because what better topic than you, as far as who knows you better than yourself and how you can learn more about yourself through examples. And some of the students haven't gotten a job yet. They're doing internships. So they are time is on their side, which is wonderful. Then we have those who have maybe changed their uh position and wanted to come back for a degree as far as management and then leading others, or they just wanted to have that a credential for themselves. That was their goal. So as far as having the self-reflection and accountability, those two things really make a difference as you're moving through life, having different examples of um, you know, it's it's so hard to say or give you just one cookie cutter example, but it's it's really important for others to just know themselves instead of having someone else tell you who you are. We focus better when we can just not be like the group. You know, sometimes they say the black sheep, well, maybe that person stepped out of the comfort zone. I'm just giving an example. I don't know anything specific about that, but just like, you know, don't just listen to what's told, not to respect authority, yes, and rules, but just don't go based on what you hear. You know, do I like this? You know, maybe there's another way to do it, maybe there's a better outcome.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

So I think that's a lot of that's listening to your teams, right? Right. You know, if if one, we've talked about this before too. Like if there's something that you don't like doing, I mean, you're gonna have to do things you don't like to do. It's like, you know, when you're when you're raising kids and stuff, you're gonna have you gotta go to school, you gotta do, you know, your chores or whatever. There's things in life that, well, that's not our favorite thing, but we have to do it. But then there's opportunities that we have if we're leading well, for you know, our teams to come to us and say, hey, this is not really where I shine. This is not really my thing. I know you gave me this task and I'll do it, but I might not be the best person for this particular task or project or whatever the case may be. And instead of as a leader, instead of getting all bent out of shape about that, you should encourage that. You should encourage your teams to be able to come to you and have those discussions. And you may have to have a hard discussion and say, look, I am sorry that you don't like that, but you still have to do it. But we'll work on in the future, you know, we'll put that on the list of maybe we need to hire somebody else to do that in the future. But right now we're gonna, we're gonna pull together um and do that thing. And then also just giving people the opportunity to be open and honest about those things and creative. I think a lot of people, regardless of the space or the industry, they have creativity in their head um that they would like to be able to do and not just, you know, like punch a clock, you know, nine to five, eight to four. And, you know, let them have ideas too. Let them share their ideas too. Um, and and then be respectful about, okay, well, that's not something we can do right now, but maybe in the future we can do it. Or, you know what, that sounds really interesting. Let's set up a meeting and let's talk about that. Let's like have some dedicated time. But I think it's a lot about, like you said, like allowing people like we can't all just be it's like not a free-for-all, right? We got to come in, we got to do the job that's created or the project that's that that we're working on force an end goal that we're trying to all make an income. But I think that it's really important that we can, I don't want to say like have fun, but I do kind of want to say have fun. Like we can enjoy the work that we're doing. We can enjoy the people that we're working with. And I think too, like, don't don't let somebody who is on your team who is toxic. If you've had five people come to you and say, This person is toxic, we cannot work with them, and you just keep the person and keep this. Sometimes you have got to make a decision that this person is toxic to my team. And rather than losing nine of my team members, I'm gonna let this one go, regardless of the credentials, right? It's not right.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

And the productivity, a toxic person could be, you know, being the best performer, but it's it's bringing everybody else down. And it's not a big, especially when you're at work more than you're at home, if it's you know, your profession.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Yeah, absolutely. And you don't want your team carrying the load of somebody else either. You know, I mean, you you need to listen to your team. You need to have one-on-ones with your team. You need to, or your students or what, you know, whatever the case may be. I think it's really just that human connection. And I think in the age of AI that we're in, you know, that could be lost too. You could just say, oh, well, you know, I could say, Sloan, you can do anything with AI, just do it with the AI. That doesn't, that doesn't mean that it's gonna be done well. It doesn't mean it's gonna be the best output for our clients. It doesn't mean that it's the best case scenario. Um so I think learning and listening to your teams is really, really key, regardless of if it's small teams or large teams.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

And you don't want to lose your creativity either with AI. I mean, we we tell our students, okay, it's not like we're gonna catch you, oh, you're copy and paste a paper. When you graduate, your employers want to know how are you going to use and embrace AI. So what we do, at least many of us, we have exercises. Okay, let us know how you used AI. What are the references that you utilize? Use it as a reference versus your your whole being because you don't want to use it in replacement in place of your own mind. And that's where your skills develop. Even though it's not a good thing. Well, that's integrity, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:04

I mean, that's especially in academia, that's integrity. Are you gonna do the work or you can utilize that as a tool, right? It's no different than an encyclopedia resource. You can use it as a resource, cite it as a resource, right? But don't say that it's your own because it's not. Look, I can do 20 hours worth of work in five minutes, and and I'm uh well aware of that. But is it wholeheartedly my work? No, of course it's not. You know, is it good? Sometimes, but it doesn't make that it wholly Amanda's work. It's it's a collective effort. It's like if I was to do something with you, Ellen, then that would be a collective effort of work. It's no different. So I think we can kind of yeah, I I could see in academia that that would get really, really tedious with people like just utilizing that to get it done. But then where's your integrity? And at the end of it, do you really have a degree? Did you earn a degree? I don't know that you did.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Yeah. We've got some great students. You know, of course, you have those that just need to get by because they're stressors outside of the deadlines, and then you you talk to them and then they learn, and then you just see brilliance transforming them and coming out of the final product. So it doesn't matter. And then even when we talk about toxic people at work, I mean, maybe no one's ever told them, hey, what you're doing isn't working. So if they even had a talk with them, maybe maybe they're hurting. I don't know. This is a psychology aspect of it. They can transform too, rather than you know, you're fired. Maybe like it depends. Everyone's different. Agreed, agreed. Everyone has their goal. It's just like you hope that you know you're here for a reason and uh what kind what kind of legacy can you leave behind that lives beyond you, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

And if that's oh, we're about to talk about that. So that's good.

unknown 43:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Um, so on the we're gonna wrap up because I want to be respectful of your time. Um, but on this podcast, we ask every single guest the same two questions. We've not had Had the same answer to any of them. So don't get hung up on that. Um, but we're gonna ask you the same two questions we asked everybody.

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Okay, so who has had a significant influence on your leadership and why?

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Oh, that's a great question. Personally, I would say my father, as far as he was an idea man, he was really brilliant, I'd say, as far as you know, he had a different sense of humor. So you could either did he just say that or did he mean that? But he led with integrity. You know, he was in the financial industry. So when you have someone who's Italian that moved to South Florida, you know, you have people, oh, you know, but he lived with integrity. Um I just remember him taking the time to speak to me no matter what. He'd have a home office too, and as a kid, I'd come in, he'd always stop what he was doing. And that really resonated with me. And I've tried to do that with my daughter as well. Stop what I'm doing if I can, you know, other than if I'm on a podcast, I can't stop what I'm doing to listen. But yeah, so I feel he did have a big influence on me. And as far as when you think of leaders out there now, I think Brene Brown is wonderful. Researcher from Texas, she's also a professor, but when she talks about vulnerability and people, you know, sometimes they shy away from that, whether whatever gender it is, but it's okay to be vulnerable because in the right sense, because people can use that against you if they're not uh ethical or have integrity. But if you allow that, then that shows your human side, and then that just makes a difference with uh those around you. So that's that's what I think as far as leaders out there and then leaders personally to me.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Great answer. Wonderful answer. All right, last question. When you think about the legacy that you're building, what do you hope people will remember about you?

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Well, that I was kind, um, that I also made you feel valued with what you brought to the table, or even in our own interactions personally, or in a group setting for work, I'd also help to lead healthier and um also human-centered uh aspects of life rather than just the technical, because it's we're on a really fast moving, fast pace, and sometimes it's okay to get off the uh to spin the hamster wheel, I guess, and just really think of nature, not to sound corny, but I mean nature's all around us, and we can kind of learn from animals too how to behave. So I would hope that what I leave is just empowering others to recognize their strengths and use them in a positive way, not to hurt them.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I can honestly say that you that's exactly what I would say. You said that you're kind, and that's if I had one word to describe you, that is what I would describe you as. Um when I was telling Sloane about you because she didn't she didn't know you. Um, and I was like, you're gonna love her. She's amazing, she's such a beautiful person and so kind and so good. And you're always very, very good about like just checking on people and hey, how are you doing? Even in the midst of what things that you're going through. And um, that's exactly how I describe you. I wear yellow today because you always send little yellow hearts, and I will remember you because of that. Wow, that's friendship. Yeah, I love it. And so yeah, that's exactly how I describe you.

SPEAKER_00 47:16

Aw, thank you. Yeah, you do the same. You you make me feel comfortable. Yeah, I know there was spontaneity in our my answers, but I just hope that whoever might be l listening, there are people that care out there and you're you aren't alone. Yeah. Uh just you know, reach out to people if you aren't sure of something or want to learn because you know, we're all in this together and we're in this timeline together. And you know, the world is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

And don't listen, you know, don't listen to all the noise. Know that there are people, real people, like us three, you know, ladies. Like it life is real, right? And and we've walked through some very real stuff, and it's okay, you know. And I think we just need to, I think we need to be more like you. I think we need to be more kind and more attuned to um other people's feelings. And I I aspire to be more like that. You you are one of my role models, and it's been yeah, absolutely an honor to to work on some projects with you, to do some things, just to stay in touch, to connect. Absolutely. One day I'm gonna come down there and just visit, and we'll go to the house. I love you too.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

I'd welcome you with open arms and yellow of art.

SPEAKER_01 48:27

Well, so we're gonna put um below this episode how people can connect with you. Um, because you should. You should go connect with Dr. Ramsey. She's brilliant, and you should be a part of what she's doing um with her business, her silver lining coaching, the leadership model, all of these things. And then if you if you guys teach online too or just in person? You're too kind. Oh no, we we teach on campus and online. Okay. I thought so, I but I didn't want to say something. So she's at Lynn University, and so you can kind of look her up there as well, and and you can take some courses and classes from her there. But yeah, one of my favorite people for sure. You're you're such a beautiful person. What an honor to be in touch with you. It's amazing to me. It's it's never lost on me the way that God orchestrates things and puts people together and puts people in my life. And so I'm I'm so grateful for you. And thank you, Sloan, for doing another podcast with me.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Sloan. Of course. So nice to meet you too. Yeah. And hopefully this is not the end of talking with you, regardless of a podcast. Sloan, too. Absolutely. Very sweet.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

What's the best way to pe for people to get a hold of you? Is it your LinkedIn or Yeah?

SPEAKER_00 49:34

I guess LinkedIn would be a a great way. Okay, because I'm on that frequently.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

So that would be we'll we'll put that information and and how people can get a hold of you and all of that. And then your website too. It's Ellenramseyph.com. What's your PhD again? I can't remember. It's in corporate leadership. That's right. That's right. I have a hard time remembering everybody's alder. You shouldn't have corporate leadership.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

I'm I'm like an anomaly. Um my master's is in international business. My undergrad is in psychology and business. So I guess you know it all blends.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

That's why we can't talk to you too long because then you'll be like the psychology part will come out too much.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

It'll be No, no, no judgment here. I know what you're saying. I'm totally kidding.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

No, I love you to pieces. I'm so grateful for you. What an honor to have you on the podcast. I hope that whoever's listening that you guys will will have taken something away from this and that you will connect with Dr. Ramsey. And thank you for listening to us. If you made it this far on the podcast, because I know we're we're we're a little kooky. But like and subscribe and all those good things and and follow us. And I I don't know why, but that you know, so that you can hear other crazy conversations that we have. So thank you for watching. Thank you, ladies, so much for being on with me today.

SPEAKER_00 50:43

Really appreciated it. Thank you.