Leadership Lessons from the Band Room with Scott King | #LeadWithLegacy | Episode 29

What can project managers learn from a high school band director?

More than you might think.

In this episode of the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast, Amanda Chambers sits down with Scott King, longtime Director of Bands and aspiring project management professional, to explore the surprising parallels between music education, leadership, and project success.

From leading marching bands and mentoring students to managing stakeholders, building team culture, and navigating change, Scott shares how decades in education have shaped his approach to leadership. Together, Amanda and Scott discuss resilience, fairness, accountability, collaboration, and why some of the best future leaders may be sitting in your local band room.

Whether you're leading a project team, managing an organization, raising a family, or developing the next generation, this conversation offers practical wisdom and heartfelt encouragement.

In this episode, you'll discover:

• Why music programs develop exceptional leaders and employees

• How fairness and inclusivity build trust

• The connection between marching band and project management

• Why failure can become one of our greatest teachers

• The importance of leading by example

• How to create a culture where people thrive

🔔 Subscribe for leadership insights, honest conversations, and practical wisdom you can apply immediately.

🌐 Learn more about IOL Global:
www.iolglobal.com

Support the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2600300/support

Contact our team to book a time to be on the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast:
https://iolglobal.com/podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Lead with Legacy, the official podcast of IOL Global. Here we will explore leadership that outlives titles and trends. Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we will discuss integrity, conviction, and purpose. To learn more about us, visit us at iOLglobal.com.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hello, welcome back to the Lead with Legacy Podcast. Thank you so much for listening with us. I am so incredibly honored to be here today with Mr. Scott King. We're going to talk a little bit about how we connected with one another. And we're going to talk about talk to Scott about who he is and what he does. He has some fascinating background and what he's doing. And we have some commonalities that we're going to kind of talk about today. Before we get started, and I let uh Scott introduce himself, just a reminder to follow us or like us or subscribe to us on whatever channel you want. We are on BuzzSprout, YouTube, iHeartRadio, Amazon Podcast, Spotify, and Amazon Music, believe it or not. Never in a million years did I think that would happen, but here we are. So make sure you make comments and follow and like us and all the things so that we can reach other people with great leadership, advice, and information. So without further ado, uh Mr. Scott King, will you please let us know who you are, where you're from, and how we got connected?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Hello, thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here today. Um, I am a high school band director, director of bands in the Atlanta, Georgia area. I've been doing that for a good while. And uh I am working on moving into a new career, project management, uh consulting, uh things where I can help other people and keep keep organizing things.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yeah. Yeah, very nice. So you are in south of Atlanta. Like I don't even know that is it Senoya?

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Is it actually Sinoia? Uh yes, Noia. So people would know it as uh that's where they feel walking dead.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

I would not know that. But so I um we have some commonalities, a couple. One, I I grew up in band, love band, have a very musical family, was in marching band, color guard, and concert band. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit. And so we have some great connection there. I also, um, for those who haven't heard that on another podcast, I I was raised in uh north of Atlanta in Marietta, so actually almost the opposite. Um, so you're like, I was looking it up, you're basically the opposite south as I was north of Atlanta. And so we have some some super commonality there. Um, super nice to see somebody from Georgia. I do I do miss it. It's not home for me anymore, but I do miss it sometimes. Um miss the varsity for sure. I would do a lot for a varsity burger. So um, but yeah, so so honored to have you on today. So we just saw your mug. Let's talk a little bit about your mug while we get started.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Okay, so uh I was honored from where you cake to work from Project Insight. Uh, they honor me with the mug uh for doing all the superhero things that uh project managers do. And as a director of bands, I could I consider myself a project manager.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

We have project You were absolutely a project manager. We're gonna talk a little bit about that. So, Project Insight, tell us who they are and what they do. We'll get we're giving them a free shout-out on this. Oh, because I want a mug too.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

So well, they have they have software that helps uh project managers do their job easier.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Fantastic. I love that. So y'all go check them out as well. All right, so let's talk about that. So you uh well, let's talk a little bit about your education too, because I had to look this up. Um my dad has an EDD, and so when I saw EDS, I was like, what is an EDS? So I looked that up. So it's an education specialist, make sure, make sure I'm saying that right. Right. And so it's kind of in between the masters, it's after the master's and in between the doctorate.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

That's exactly it. So I got it. Google helped me. That's right. So it's uh right, it's uh uh an add-on after the masters. And at the point where I could have kept going into uh doctorate at Auburn, um, my daughter was very little and she would start crying every time I would open up my my uh my computer to work on it. I couldn't go any anymore. She's while I'm stying I am still teaching.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

So yeah, no, wonderful. So is it just one daughter or is there just one daughter? Just one daughter. Okay, uh for some reason I had two in my head. And she's going to be a senior, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Yeah, so major, I'll state the soonist, but she's a varsity soccer player.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

Awesome, very, very good job. Yeah, so but let's let's not devalue uh the the education that you have there and the degree you have there, because that that takes a lot to get to that point, too. And you never know, you might go back and and finish into your doctorate as well, but it never don't never say never. You never know what God has in store. He might send you next week. But no, uh, congratulations on that as well, because that's no small feat. Um, you went through a lot of schooling, a lot of education for that. Um, and it that's that's really, really cool. Uh, I just I thought it was interesting because I was like, I don't, I don't think I know that one. Um, and I just went to a college graduation the other day um and I learned a lot. Not that I have never been to one because I've been a lot, but it was it was really interesting. So they had um just kind of like off on a rubber trail, but they had like a huge silver trophy. Um and my six-year-old son was with me, and he was like, I wonder who's gonna get that trophy thing. And I was like, I don't think anybody gets it. I think it's just part of like, you know, all the pomp and circumstance and everything. And um, he's kind of wise beyond his years, so you can kind of talk to him like that. And he's like, Oh no, I think somebody's getting it. Sure enough, somebody got it. And unbelievably so, the the lady who got it is actually has been scheduled to be on this podcast. And so she hasn't been on yet, but she was, and I was like, Well, there you go. So, anyways, that's kind of a side note, but uh no, no, no shame to that degree at all. You worked really, really hard to get it, and I think it's really cool. I learned something new today. So yeah, so I'm super happy to have you on. Um, we have we got connected on LinkedIn. I'm not sure who connected first or how long we've been connected, um, but I love LinkedIn for the connections because we get to meet people that we wouldn't normally normally um you know have conversations with. I love these conversations. I I walk away every time learning something and taking something away. Um, and so it's really, really great. And I'm really honored to have you on. You're brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, I was like, I love LinkedIn because uh I've never and and I might be new to it, but I've never had a bad experience. Um everybody seems so so helpful and so willing to do whatever they can. So unlike some other problems.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah, I agree. Um I yeah, I think it's um for for anybody who's not on LinkedIn, and there are people who aren't on there, which which to those of us who are, it's a little strange. It is it's such a connection site, it's such a great way to meet great people all over the world. I have I have connections on there um in England, uh, Scotland, and in the Bahamas. It's really, really great um in a way to learn from other people and grow and develop and think about things differently. And so it's been really, really great for me as well. Um, I'm I'm a huge, huge fan of LinkedIn. Shout out to Lincoln as well. Uh I'm not a huge fan of a lot of we're we're on a lot of other platforms, but I'll be honest, you won't find me on there very much. So not personally. All right, so let's talk about you've spent several decades leading successful band programs and mentoring programs, which is super cool. What leadership lessons from that music education apply across the board, not just to a band? And for those of you who don't know what a marching band is, or just a, you know, even just a regular concert band, a lot of planning and detail goes into this. Um, so I'm gonna let you talk about that. You're the expert in it, so take us away.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

So a couple things that's transferable is leading by example, uh, fairness, inclusivity, making everyone feel valued, humility, and encouragement. So I can talk a little bit about those. So let's do that. I need to be the model and reward things like strong work ethic, uh, accountability, curiosity, resilience, because you don't win every contest. You lose well, lose more of them than you win and teamwork. So again, a team that big, you need to make sure that uh you're doing everything to lead by example so that way they can take my team can take all the things that we're teaching them advanced life skills throughout the rest of their life. Fairness. I think fairness is very important to me sometimes at a to a fault. I I I like just like for instance when we have auditions or anything related to that, we make sure there's a blind audition where we don't know who the who the students are. Uh that way they feel even solos, that way they feel like they get, you know, I I you know, I'm not biased towards or against anyone, even though they know I'm not. And and a lot of times I'm surprised, uh, pleasantly, where where somebody that really wanted that position and really wanted that solo comes through and like that's great, and it encouraged them to work hard. If if it wasn't fair, they they wouldn't even work hard because I knew one conclusion. So I I try to get the most out of them. Selfishly, I want the most out of them too.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I I I don't I've I've met a few band directors in my life, and I I had two great ones for for many years. And well, I'll actually all the way through middle school, all the way through high school. And I haven't met one yet that isn't and isn't driven and doesn't want the best for everybody. So let's talk a little bit about this. So for people who don't know, um who may have never been in that space, when you are in band, whether it's concert band or marching band, you audition for different positions within um the area that you play. So for instance, I played the flute. Um so when I was playing concert band, I would have to audition for the seat that I wanted, whether it was first seat or last seat or the middle seat. And so we audition for that. And so we would be given different songs that we would learn and then we would audition for that. Now, Scott, you and I were talking about this before. This is a new concept to me because you know, 150 years ago when I was in band, they did not do blind auditions. And so I really like the concept of that, and I like how it transitions into um our leadership in other areas and other organizations. I think sometimes we have lenses, and uh, we um our pastor was kind of teaching on this Wednesday night, and so it was interesting as well. It kind of coincides. We have different lenses on lenses of judgment, lenses of bias, um, different kinds of lenses that we might put on. So the fact that you do what we call blind auditions, um, where you don't even see them, you're only hearing um what the production is that they're making, and you make a judgment call on that is so beautiful. I think it's so great. I think we should take that into other parts of our lives in our organizations and our families to not have like, you know, those opinions already pre-formed because you don't know who's gonna play. You just need them to play and play well. And then they kind of earn and and and I would go so far as to say is win that seat. And then it's also um, I think the beauty of it too, and I'm gonna let you talk a little bit about this being the last tier or the last position, that's that's not always a negative thing. It can give us an opportunity to regroup, redefine when when you're playing instruments, especially early on. Is that really the instrument you should be playing, or is it that the best position for you? And again, that translates into leadership roles in organizations. You might have to start somewhere, but that's not not necessarily where you end up, right? And you can go from last year to first year pretty quick if you have determination and some grit to it. So let's talk about, let me let you talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Well, that's a very interesting concept because uh we've had students uh where they were we have three different concert ensembles and we place them where they're most successful based on that audition. And we have had a couple of students who uh one particular who started in the in the third band and worked his way up, and now he's a professional musician. Yeah, so so that we encourage them to keep working hard and keep doing that, and and the three, you know, the three ensembles are there for a reason, and it's really not as much as talent, as much as dedication. How much are they willing to put in? Uh, you know, these are really smart students, so you know, we want to try to get the best out of them and to keep moving towards that. And sometimes they'll have a great audition, and then when we get into the ear, it's not the same. And I'll almost use that against them. I'll go, hey, where where was that? What happened? Get in here. And they're like, oh Katie, all right, because I worked real hard for a couple of weeks to get in here, and then now I gotta produce, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Yeah, not doing the work. And we can be guilty of that in in in real life too, right? Quote unquote real life. Like we work really hard to get to a position or get to a place professionally or personally, right? And then we just kind of let it go.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Well, that's that's a that's a a good point because as I'm transitioning into a a new career, I don't want people to hold hold against me that I have not been in that industry. I'm uh, you know, I have lots of skills that transfer and I want them to look at me uh, you know, fairly with fresh eyes, because um I'm I have a lot to offer. And it's the same thing with our last year player net player. You know, they wouldn't be there. And in fact, in Marching Band, every single person is important and from their contribution visually and musically.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

So yeah, absolutely. So if you don't know a lot about marching band, you should go and look it up, especially um I what I love about this conversation with you, Scott, is that this does really translate so much to project management because marching band, especially both, but we're gonna kind of focus on marching band a little bit. Marching band takes a massive amount of planning, um, project planning, every single step has to be correct on every single person. Um, you mess, you can mess up the whole thing. I don't know how so you guys are at Star's Mill. How many do you have in your marching band generally speaking?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

About 80.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Wow, yeah. Yeah. So that can you imagine 80 teenagers having to coordinate that they take every step correctly? Well, if that's not project management, I don't know what is. And I've so I I have the the opportunity to be connected with some teachers who have transitioned from teaching um to project management. And then also quite a few military who have translated from um military into project management. And I was thinking about you, I was thinking and kind of just praying about this conversation last night. And I was like, you know what? You kind of have both because marching band, it I'm not saying it's the same as the military, but it's very, very rigid like that. You you really have to plan ahead. You really have to have, and I'm gonna let you talk about that. I'll be quiet in a minute. Um, but you really have to have these kind of ground rules, things kind of set out already, expectations. You guys do a lot of training, a lot, and I'll let you talk about that too. And so both sides of that transition into project management, you've been managing projects for eons. Now, maybe they didn't call it that, you know, maybe they didn't say at this school or that school, hey, this is this this setup is a project. But let's talk about that, let's talk about what goes into creating a show like that. Um, and for those people who don't know, the marching band it marches and and does a show for the football games, and then they also go and do other shows, parades and different things like that. So I'll let you talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Right. Well, it's it it it's a dual responsibility. We do we do support our football team and some other teams sometimes during the year, but we also compete. Yes, and that's where a lot of the planning goes in. Uh again, just like at any other project. You think ahead and you plan out uh these are deliverables that are time bound. So when Friday night comes, you gotta you gotta perform, you gotta do it in front of a lot of customers.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

So there so there's you know very little room for error. We uh I teach them how to how to think about the very fine details, how to recover when there's mistakes that are live performance. And uh yeah, a lot of planning and a lot of uh teaching goes on before that.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of dedication from everybody, from you, your team, and and from the students as well. I know uh I I can honestly attest to you, I am better because I was in band. Um it taught me a lot. It taught me how to fail, right? Because you don't always get the position that you want. You don't always get to do what you want, where you want. Sometimes you've got to be moved for the whole of the team. And so uh it taught me a lot about leadership. So let's talk about that, the leadership structure within with inside of that. I know we talked a little bit about you kind of run your um your group like a scrum team and they eat so explain that how that works. Because I think to project managers, that's gonna be really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

The more research I'm doing about my mixed steps, the more interested I'm I'm becoming into uh scrum masters. So what somebody suggested that I take the marchaband and I use it as a scrum of scrums. So each section leader is a scrum master, and they're able to run their section as they see fit within a framework uh of our culture that I've I've created. So that gives them buy-in, that gives them uh you know freedom to do some things again within the framework. Right. And uh and that helps to overall include that psychological safety, that teamwork.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

They're working for each other. Because that way, uh because I they see me the older I get, that I know they see me as a salesman, you know, uh they but they want to oppress their their peers, you know. So when their peers say it, that it means a lot more to them than when I say it.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that we've we sometimes lose a little bit of that as we grow. And we've kind of lost it in our in our culture here in the United States, a little bit of that that good peer pressure, right? Wanting um and striving because that it's it's good for the whole of the team. And it's not just about me. And that if it if I make it about me, we're all gonna fail. So, you know, as much as we all hated when I when I was kids, like the group project, um, I don't even know if they do that anymore. But it there was so much more to that than just, oh, getting the project done. It was working together, collaborating together, learning from one another, learning together, and then learning that if one of the pieces fails, we're all gonna fail. And I think we've lost a little bit about the uh of that because it's, you know, it's well, we can't, you know, let everybody fail and everybody has to win. I I think it's good to fail. It's okay to fail. I've learned a lot from failing, uh, you know, over the years. And and you reminded me in our other conversation that um, so I went to Sprayberry High School, and so you'll have to remind me which school you were at at the time, but you guys beat us. Well, your color guard team beat our color guard team, and I was not on color guard at the time. But yeah, so you we failed a little bit in that. And we at the time, um, back when I was going to Spraybury, Spraybury was like our our marching band was it was it was one to to envy for sure. Um, I think that at one time, and I would have to look up the statistics on that, but I think we had like 400 people in our marching band between ColorGuard and and and drill team and all that. Yeah, so you guys beat us. Uh, not a whole lot of people beat us, so congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Well, I was at Stockbridge High School as a Stopbridge, that's right. Uh-huh. And I was in charge of the Keller guard. Um, now what you didn't see was the year before it was horrible. My first year, they said fix it. Uh, and it was there was a lot of seniors that that did not want to listen, didn't do anything. So we I started the steps that year. We didn't win a whole lot that year, but the following year that paid off. So we've got to go.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I'm gonna tell you what, if you could turn it around and and beat Spraybury, you did something amazing. I we got to go with concert band to New York um and play in Carnegie Hall, um, which is ri which a lot like trip of a lifetime, right? And then uh a lot there was a group, and I I honestly can't remember uh it really was like forever ago, but a big group, I don't Know if it was everyone or what the situation was, but it but a big group went to the Rose Bowl of ours, and then we also went down to Florida and marched. I can't even tell you. Um, but we we were able to do some really cool stuff, and uh I again I'm a huge proponent, and I really do agree with you that so much of the principles and just the leadership style and stuff came from what I learned during that time. I think that your transition into project management is a fluid one. I think it's uh it's so much more than logical because you have been doing that for the whole time. And I think a lot of a lot of people don't realize that that the work that they're doing already transitions and you're already managing projects, right? If you've done a big move, you've managed a project. You know, that's a project in and of itself. Um I think kind of raising a kid is a project. And you're you're helping to raise 80 of them right now. So kudos to you.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

That way too. We try to, you know, I try to instill as many life skills as possible. Something that uh I never thought would be an issue with uh now with a uh teenager's attention span being so short, you know, you're talking about a uh eight-minute marching show where if they unfocus for five seconds, they're blown. It's something's wrong. We in my um my top ensemble, we're playing college level music. So a piece could be 15 minutes long. Yeah, these kids cannot, you know, you know, they can't just zone out after you know 15 seconds, like a TikTok video or something. So we're teaching that skill where it's gonna be very valuable for them label.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah, I do. I it's really good that you brought that up because I wouldn't have really thought about that. I think we even adults, we have that problem now, right? Because we're being drawn in so many different directions. There's a video here and a this there. And um, that's one of the things I like about these conversations because they're just a little longer, a little more in-depth. You can kind of sit through it. I love listening to podcasts. I have several that I listen to. Um, and I learned something, even if it's just something small, every time I listen to one, and I I've learned so much from just having these conversations too. Um, and that's a really valuable insight. We need to work as a culture on our attention spans. And I I love that you guys are doing that with this group of teens because we are we're we're being drawn to not have good attention spans, and we need to because that's how we listen well and that's how we communicate well. So you've mentioned about being a collaborative leader who values ideas from everyone on the team. Um we talked a little bit about that with the scrum and allowing them to kind of have some some ownership there, but why is that leadership style important to you across the board?

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Well, I'm working with teenagers, but I'm working with a lot of different generations. Uh also I have a parent group that I work with, an admin that I work with. Um I have uh stakeholders in the community that I'm working with. So a lot of different generations that I'm communicating with. So again, our uh our brand that that we've created is important to get across to to all the stakeholders. Um and we do that by you know, social media and other ways of communicating. By communicating concisely, everybody's on the same page, uh same expectations. That way everybody knows what to do. And there's accountability. So when something does go wrong, you know, we can we can assess it and we can determine the best practice. But again, uh including uh including them in the decision making makes it much more valuable, much more buy-in.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

I'm dealing with a lot of hormones, a lot of uh ego sometimes when I deal with uh older stakeholders.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

So uh even even instructors that come in and work with us, you know. I'm I I you know, I'm dealing, I I'm the program coordinator, so I have to be able to make sure every decision is is best for the whole group. I don't want somebody coming in and going, well, let's have a you know three-minute drum solo here, you know, and or whatever, you know, so so it's important that I'm balancing all that and and I'm the go-between and I'm the person that, you know, ultimately it's my name on it. So I I want to.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, I don't envy your position at all. For anybody who's managing big organizations, Scott is managing 80 teenagers on a field and their parents. And if you think T-ball parents are bad, you haven't seen banned parents. And I think too, um, something that's interesting to know is that you you probably and I'm I'm I'm guessing here, but um, and we can kind of talk about that. I'm guessing that your parent generations are very varied as well, because I know for me, uh, we didn't have our son until I was 40. And so I'm an old parent. Um, but then we have some very young parents because we're coming back into the culture of okay, we want to have families, we want to have children. And so there are probably some very young parents, and so you probably have a at least a 20-year span in the parents' ages alone.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Easily. We just uh but we just graduated uh a family, and I say family because I had all four of their kids for 10 years, 10 year span. So uh it yeah, and I'm an older parent also. But but I'm glad because Me too.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

Shout out to that because it was a great idea.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

So so yeah, you're right. I mean, even in the span of of our and and so really, you know, I have parents that that uh I could easily have taught. So so uh I am they're I'm not gonna say they're kids, but they're you know, they're they're they're older, older kids, so I can relate to them more, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Yeah, but what what a uh what a unique personality and ability you must obtain like must have to be able to work. I mean, that is so I mean, if you really think break that down from a freshman in high school to, you know, somebody my age, 46, 47 years old, um, maybe even older, because if I had a teenager right now, you know, I would I don't even want to think about that. But, you know, I'm you're talking, I mean, many, many, many generations of people that you're dealing with. And and band parents are typically, um, I don't think we could put everybody in a box, but they're typically very involved. They want to be a part, they want to know, they want to encourage the kids, they want to um, you know, help them along. That a lot of times a lot of band kids are taking lessons outside of theirs well to to increase um their knowledge and to grow in in what they're doing. Some kids play more than one instrument. And so, yeah, I can't even imagine like if anyone, Scott, was equipped to deal with an organizational team, I think that you you would probably find it a breath of fresh air because you've been when you throw in the hormones of the parents and the teenagers, and then everything in between, yeah. I wow.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

I well, I appreciate it. And again, that's where the fairness comes in. That's where you know we we try to to create a culture to where the kids and the parents want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

And they're they're learning and they're making memories. That we have some students, obviously, we're very good musicians who might go on professionally. We have some students who enjoy playing their instrument and being around all their friends. All that has to it has to be in one program. So we have to offer that to to everybody. So you know, I can look a parent in the eye easily and say this is the best activity that your child can be in with 100% honesty.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah. And and honesty is so important and so key too. And and having that good, clear communication all the way throughout helps so much. Again, I can't say enough about how those years formed kind of who I am. And I even, you know, even if it's not a conscious effort of thinking back like every day or even every week, there's so many things I learned from being part of that and being part of a good organization where we were equipped well, but we were also pushed to do better, to do more, to accomplish more. Um and it was it was just really exciting, and to have just that camaraderie and just it's like a it's a whole family in itself. And team sports are like that, right? Um, and there's some people who will say that Marching Mid is not a sport, it is a sport. It is so a sport. So is ColorGu. I cannot tell you how many sprints across the football field I had to do. And I should probably go do some more now. But yeah, I mean, the culture within it, just the the camaraderie and the and the communication um and the free-flowing um between. So um, yeah, kudos to you for that. Absolutely. I cannot even imagine trying to organize and keep that chaos at bay. Um, and and that brings us uh to as well, you've talked about wearing many hats and learning every aspect of the work that you're doing, whether it's with the band or with projects that you're working on. How does that mindset help you build trust and credibility with the teams that you're working with?

SPEAKER_02 31:46

All right. So I made a point early on to learn as much about what I was teaching as possible. And that's what I'm enjoying doing for my next steps for project management. Again, a lot of that is is the same. So, you know, whether I, you know, can put on a bass drum and show show them something or throw a double and catch with the with the flag, or just pick up a you know, a bassoon and show them how to figure whatever, that adds credibility to what I'm doing. I create a lot of our content uh and uh of our project. So that helps me uh do that better. And as we go through the season, you know, I'll you know, in fact, I'll I'll have the the students contribute as much as they can, like for choreography or anything that that I feel like could could uh enhance the show, enhance the product. Um so as I'm going through and I'm managing that project, or actually uh as I'm managing our program, I'm I have uh lived a lot of it, so I I have a lot of different perspectives where I can come at it. And uh adding that curiosity to to knowledge. If you know, as we go, I'm not uh and again I've done this a long time, but but I'm not done it all, I'm not been all. Uh so as I'm seeing another group and they have a better whatever, I'm curious. What are they doing? How they how they figure that out. I, you know, again, they're usually very helpful, and then I apply it to our situation, and then we become better, uh just by helping each other. So the great band is a great community of educators, but also again, I'm saying project management is the same thing. They want to help each other, they want everybody to succeed.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah, that's so sure. And I was thinking while you were saying that, I think, Scott, I think that you you well, I don't deny at all that you you've you're a project manager for sure. I think you're a program manager more than anything, because when you look at a project, and for those people who don't know, a lot of a lot of people who tune into this are are project manager. I think they're probably gonna agree, they're probably, you know, listening, shaking their head, no, no, he's a program manager. Because a project is is the entity that you're currently working on, right? And that can have a lot of moving parts to it. But what you're talking about when you're doing um within the organization of the band, so it's again, let's let's go back. It's con you you have concert band and you have marching band. Those are two different things. And you're running those sometimes simultaneously. And so you're doing and you compose as well, which is incredible. And I like to talk about that as well. But so there's a bazillion moving parts because not only do you have let's just take the the um concert band, for example, you have groups within that. So there's all of these groups, whether it's flute and you have your clarinets and your trumpets and your trombones, and then you have your drums, percussion. And so you have to take all of that and make all of that work together. And that's not just a project, that's you have different programs within that project that you're managing all at one time simultaneously. And so, kind of off off subject a little bit, just out of curiosity. Um, how many instruments do you play, or what instruments do you play? Do you play them all?

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Play all the band instruments, all of them.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

What?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

To a certain level, not that is great.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Well, I think I do think at a certain point, right, the a lot of them overlap. Like I know um, you know, I learned on flute. I started on flute when I was in sixth grade, and so I played flute, and then I played piccolo, of course, because that's like a natural kind of transition. And then I also um did bass clarinet a little bit um here and there. And so there's some transitioning over that's not too super difficult. But that that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Every single one of well, I took uh an equivalent of an extra semester on my undergrad at Jacksonville State University to learn more. Then in my master's at Bandercut College in Chicago, I I doubled up on some other instruments and learned even more. That's very applicable. And then I I did not ever want a student coming to me and say, How do you finger this? or what's wrong with my instrument? I had no idea.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

So I wanted, you know, again, adding that credibility, adding so I'm I'm sitting here thinking, what an incredible leader you are that you would learn. That's a lot. I mean, that's a lot. You had to dive in a lot to that because although there's some that do transition over pretty, you know, fairly easily, there's some that, you know, don't. And so that's really you you have really, really worked really hard to have a well-rounded leadership style. Yeah, and so important that any any of them that come to you, you know, you're you know, you're not like, hey, let me Google that. Let me figure that out.

unknown 36:47

You know.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Well, when I started, there was no Google, but uh even even uh in Marching Bank, you know, I was a I was uh marching technician with management. Wow. And uh I did telegraph, I did percussion, uh drum major, I have a drum major also.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

I was thinking last night too, somewhere I have my rifle. Um I kept it all these years. I don't I don't have a flag. I don't know why. I don't know whatever happened to all the flags, but I have my rifle somewhere. Um, but Lord knows where, so I'd have to dig it out. But you got me thinking about that too. Those are like the good old days, you know, like now I'm old enough now. I can look back and be like, oh, those were the good old days. And so let's let's talk a little bit about. So when I was growing up and I was in band, and and I I'm a huge believer in this as well. There is statistically, there's a lot of statistics behind this that the the kids or even adults who play music um perform on a higher level educationally. And yeah, so there's some so there's some research that's been done for eons and eons about even so. So I'm gonna tell you how I how I learned this. Okay, give a little bit away for myself. I'm horrible at math, and I mean horrible. Uh, like really terrible. Now, if you want a paper written, a book written, proofing, publishing, any of that, I I'm your girl. When it comes to math, I just terrible. My teachers would just pull their hair out with me, call my parents constantly. And so back then in the way olden days, there some re I'm sure there was research before that, but some research had come out that the kids who were in band, whatever class they had next, they would perform better in. And so actually, my band teacher came to me because you know, we hadn't talked about this on here yet, but to be in band, you have to have good grades. You don't just get to do it. Um, and so they go hand in hand. And so because I was not doing well in math, that that had something to do with my band. And so my teachers kind of came together, which was really a beautiful thing. And they were like, hey, you know, there's this research out, there's these studies out saying that if you will go to math after band, you will perform better. And sure enough, lo and behold, whether it was true or not, it was in my head or not, I did really well for me, uh, which is which is not great. But I I ended up doing a lot better. And so throughout the rest of my high school years, they planned it out for me that way to where I could go to math after my band class, which was really, really helpful to me. And I'm so grateful that they did. I'm still terrible at math, but but it did help. So I say that to say, you you mentioned that band students often become incredible future employees and leaders. And I think there's so much more to that. One, we've talked about, you know, the teamwork and the camaraderie and working together and having accountability, which I think is really important. But what other qualities do the performing arts programs help to develop that last for the life of somebody? Because it certainly has for me.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

Right. Well, first, let me commend your band teachers for valuing you, valuing you so much that they they took the effort. They did just let, okay, good luck. You know, they took the effort, they they really wanted you in their program and saw you as uh somebody that you know that they should help. So that's great. That doesn't surprise me at all. Uh you had great band directors, and uh that doesn't surprise me with the math because you're using the same part of the brain for both those, you know, the band is band is so wonderful because you're using multiple parts of the brain at the same time, and all the instant collaboration and and everything is just so much more enhanced. And that, you know, those kind of things make band students so much more valuable as and employees when they when they leave high school or some sometimes when they're in high school because of their their accountability. Because, you know, I did a um and I'm trying to think, I know somebody will be able to correct me here, but there was a there was a little concert, a little demonstration uh by a composer where they the orchestra played 95% of the correct notes. 95%. So all only notes they miss one out of every 20 notes. So you you know, you think 95, that's pretty good. It was horrible. It was horrible.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

It's interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Uh I'll I'll I'll find it now.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah, send it to me. That's really interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

So I've done that actually at a couple of uh uh holiday concerts where we're combined with the middle school. And I I preface it with 95, you'd be happy with your student, your child's, you know, grade for that.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

If I got a 95 in math, my dad would have been really happy.

SPEAKER_02 41:47

But our expectations are so high, you know, that that accountability, that grit and determination of learning an instrument, being bad at it to begin with, and then sticking with it and following the process and living with you know with that determination of getting better through time. Again, that that's something that's getting less and less in society. So still value though in in uh in corporate America. The curiosity of like like I said, of learning different instruments or learning different music or doing things throughout uh just it's amazing now. Uh uh, what's at their fingertips where they can just research something and instantly get that. So that curiosity is gonna make them better employees because they're gonna be, if they don't know something, they're gonna pass, they're going to find it out, they're going to to to do whatever they need to do to get it better. The confidence that we're instilling in them. A lot of times it's before they are confident where I'm their biggest cheerleader. I know what they can do. I have confidence in myself that I can pull that out of them. So once they achieve great things with us, they're going, they're gonna transfer that and say, Yeah, I can do that in any situation. But the uh again, attention to detail. We talked a little bit about uh about their focus, so they have to be you know focused on on what they're doing at all times, because if not, then something's gonna go wrong and livable and performing under pressure. One of you know, one of the things that we talk about is in a live performance, we're gonna go wrong. Here's we can do this, we can do this, so we plan for that, okay? An agile way of thinking. We plan for that to go wrong, and this is what's gonna happen. And you quickly recover, and a lot of times the audience or judges will not even see it. Or you make it part of the show. I mean to do that.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, yeah. That learning, uh, we talked a little bit before too, like that learning how to pivot regardless and having a plan when something fails, this is the next thing, and the next thing. And it's really, really beautiful how you're able to do that and teach that and instill that in. So my two, my two biggest takeaways is one, I think that Scott, you're a program manager. Although also anybody who's a program manager is I believe also a project manager. And you would be an amazing asset to any team. I wish I could hire you. Because I mean, good grief, the takeaways and just the lifelong lessons and the ability to work with so many different people in so many different facets. But the other takeaway is people who are looking at resumes. One of the questions should be, were you in band? And I do, I think so. We should ask that question. Like, were you in band? Because I know you're better equipped to kind of navigate when things, because when you were out on a football field and it poured down rain and you still had to, you know, do the thing or figure out what to do. Um, and so yeah, what a great question for for the HR teams. It's like, hey, did you know we're I don't know, can you ask that? I don't know if it's like you're not allowed to. You should ask that. That's the little takeaway from here. Ask whoever you're interviewing, were they ever in band? Because if they were and they made it a while, they're probably uh gonna be one of your better candidates uh to hire. And since since Scott teaches those people, he's even a better candidate. So I just those are two little takeaways. Uh well, Scott, I want to be I want to be respectful of your time and everybody who's listening. So, who is the most influential person or persons, can be more than one, in your life that left a lasting legacy on the way that you lead and mentor and serve others?

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Okay. All right, that's a great question. So probably initially Dr. David Walters. He was the uh band director at Jacksonville State University when I got there, and he created a wonderful band, but also a wonderful. I know in corporate and corporate speak now, when you say family, that's a trigger. Now, but but definitely an inclusive family, uh, and just such a very opposite personality of me, just very laid back, he's very uh very calm, uh, doesn't get overly excited. So when he spoke, it was very, very important what it what he said. He was hilarious too. He was a great arranger and he created such a wonderful band that continues to just be exemplary of uh university bands. Also, Dr. Ben Esper was one of my early uh administrators.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

I know that name. I know that name.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

I I taught in Northwest Georgia, so you might know him.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

I have to look that up. Yeah, Ben Esper. I know that name somehow. Okay, go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Dr.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Ben Desper, uh he was uh when I was at a middle school he was the the principal there and actually asked me to uh to move with him uh at a super as a superintendent. He was a superintendent at a uh another school system, so to uh to take over the band there. Um but again he had so much confidence in me and uh he he was uh you know he was very instrumental, no pun intended, and in building when I started teaching, you know, building that that confidence and uh and just helping me, you know, go through some, you know, jump through some hurdles and things that you know missteps as a new teacher would do. And really I was especially in Northwest Georgia, I was fortunate enough in that district to have a lot of of uh very established and very um successful band directors in that area who really mentored me. And I I don't know why, but I was I was a very energetic.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

They saw something. Yeah, I I I shout out to to Georgia as well for really pouring into the music programs um in the schools. I think there's some some other places in our country that could could learn from that, um, and learn from what we talked about here too, and just looking in how we're growing leaders within those programs. So those are great. Is is that all of them?

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Is it well that that that that kind of motivates me too, as I'm now in in my situation, motivates me to you know consult and to talk to younger directors about how, you know, obviously things have changed, but a lot of things have not, you know. So it it it it really uh excites me to get back.

SPEAKER_01 48:38

Yeah, absolutely. All right. So the last question, which is typically the hardest one, when people reflect on your life and your leadership one day, what do you hope your legacy will be?

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Well, that's a very pointed question because I know when I'm leaving, and it actually less than a year, a year from last night, uh I'll be uh I'll be leaving my my current school. I'll go into another industry completely. I want to completely so that is really on my mind because my daughter is in my is in my band, she's at my school.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

I want to start You will not be the first one to cry on this show, so it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

So as as that's very much on my mind. Every single week is gonna be on my mind. So I want them to love music, I want them to to love each other, and I want them to to to know that that we all care about them, and the reason we do things that we do is is we do care about them, and we want them to have the the most life skills that they can have to be productive and to be uh successful in whatever they do. And I see it as my last chance, my last year to do that again because I care deeply about what I do, and I've always I always have, and I and I work really hard to make sure that they have the best experience possible. So as they leave, like you said, you you remember those those times very fondly. So I want to be a part of that. I'd love to be a part of that. Um so I want them to, you know, to remember the things that we accomplished, remember how we've been successful, but I also remember, you know, them them owning the results. If if something didn't go right, you know, what happened, learning from that, and just being a better person, being, you know, being helpful to others, being a great citizen, a great employee, everything human.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

That's wonderful. And and here here's my takeaway for it. I think that you have already left a legacy. Um uh more than you probably know. I know that I can honestly say that of all the different people I have encountered in my life, my band directors and the group of people, and just the camaraderie and and the family that we had there, it is lasting forever. I learned so much, and I I know I can tell from the conversation that we've had that you have taught them so much. We're gonna give a big shout out to Stars Mill High School, to the Panthers. So, shout out to them. Uh, Mr. Scott King, amazing to talk to you, to know you, to learn from you. Just really incredible. I'm so glad that we got synced up on LinkedIn and that we're able to just kind of communicate back and forth. It's really, really been great. Anyone who is looking for a project, program manager, you need to reach out to Scott, connect with him on LinkedIn for sure. Um, because uh I have no doubt you're gonna get snatched up just as soon as you're available. Um and you know, I have no doubt God has big plans for what's in the future. It's always difficult to leave something behind, but when we're called to do something different and we we follow God's purpose in it, he will bless that, just like he's blessed the things that you've done at these different high schools. And what you've poured into these kids, I believe is absolutely invaluable. And um, you could never put a price tag on it. So I'm honored to get to know you better and and just to kind of collaborate with you and and and I hope the others will connect with you and get to know you better too. Yeah, I mean, what what a cool connection. And we had so many many things. I could talk to you for hours about different and now I'm like, oh, I need to go pick my flute back up and start playing it because somebody asked me, somebody asked me not long ago about um, oh, what do you play? And I was like, well, I don't really play anything anymore. My dad plays like a whole bunch of different stuff. And then our son is taking piano lessons and singing lessons. And so, you know, he's he's working on that. And I'm over here like, well, I should probably probably get back in it. So thank you for the motivation, for the conversation. Thank you for pouring into the youth and to the families, and there's not as much of that as I think we should have. And and I again, I have no doubt you have already left quite the legacy. Um, and may maybe some of them will be watching this and they can say, hey, and they shout out to to how much they appreciate what you've taught them. And and so thank you. Bless her heart. It'll be okay. You we'll just tell her, like, one day your dad will, it won't be embarrassing anymore. You'll you'll be so grateful and and and so glad. And I know uh my dad is the founder of IOL, and um he he'd really rather be fishing than anything else, but sometimes I pull him in to work on some stuff with us, and it's such an honor and such a blessing to be able to to have that time with him. And and what an amazing opportunity you have to to teach your daughter and to help and in the in the the additional raising on that side of it. Yeah, kudos to you, dad. Good job.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Um I want her to be a part of you know, this band program that I built.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

Get the benefits from that. And she's gonna be a great drum major leader. And I'm I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Very exciting. That's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Honored to be a part of your podcast. And thank you. I appreciate the conversation and and uh letting me tell my story. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Yes, absolutely. And I'll love to have you back on sometime. We'll see how it goes after you get through this year. You got a you got a lot to do this year. So well, thank you again for being on. Um, I again everybody go connect with uh Mr. Scott King on LinkedIn. We'll put his information below um and and definitely connect with him. He's he's a great asset. And we just appreciate you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

Thank you so much.