Leading with Service with Maisel Mazier, PMP | #LeadWithLegacy | Episode 35

What if the secret to great leadership isn't authority—but service?

In Episode 35 of the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast, Amanda Chambers and Sloane Lott welcome Maisel Mazier, PMP, for an inspiring conversation about servant leadership, customer success, faith, integrity, and building meaningful relationships.

Maisel shares his journey from nonprofit leadership to customer success, explaining why genuine care for people, humility, and adding value are the foundations of lasting professional and personal success. Together they discuss emotional intelligence, active listening, trust, data-driven decision-making, and how serving others reflects our greater purpose.

Whether you're leading a team, serving clients, managing projects, or simply striving to make a positive impact, this episode offers practical leadership lessons rooted in faith and authentic relationships.

In this episode, you'll discover:

Why trust is earned through consistent integrity.
The heart behind customer success and servant leadership.
How listening creates lasting relationships.
Why adding value always comes before receiving value.
The importance of emotional intelligence in leadership.
What it means to leave a legacy that points others toward hope.

🔔 Subscribe for leadership insights, honest conversations, and practical wisdom you can apply immediately.

🌐 Learn more about IOL Global:
www.iolglobal.com

🔗 Connect with Maisel Mazier, PMP

LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mmazier

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https://www.buzzsprout.com/2600300/support

Contact our team to book a time to be on the Lead with Legacy™ Podcast:
https://iolglobal.com/podcast

#LeadWithLegacy #IOLGlobal #ServeGod #ServePeople #FaithBasedLeadership #ChristianLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #LegacyLeadership #KingdomLeadership #ServantLeadership #LeadershipPodcast #AmandaChambers #PublicServiceLeadership #LeadershipWithPurpose

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Lead with Legacy, the official podcast of IOL Global. Here we will explore leadership that outlives titles and trends. Through conversations with faith-based and marketplace leaders, we will discuss integrity, conviction, and purpose. To learn more about us, visit us at iOLglobal.com. Hello, welcome back to the Lead with Legacy Podcast. What an honor it is to be with you guys again. If you're listening in, thank you so much for listening to us. We're so glad to be here today. I am here with my director of operations, Sloan Lott, who is phenomenal. And no, you can't have her because I want to keep her forever. And uh I want to do a shout-out, thank you to Amy Scott, who does all of our video editing. She's incredible. We don't see her on camera, but she does all the work. And I am truly so, so excited and so blessed to have on here today Mazel Mazer. Um and Mazel's gonna introduce himself to us and who he is and what he does. And we're gonna talk about a little bit about how we got connected. Um and then Slan's got some questions for us. So Mazel, welcome. Thank you for being here with us.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Sloan. I'm so excited to be here. Really excited to uh to be on your podcast. Amazing. We finally did it. We got we got we're making we're making this happen. So just a little bit about me, guys, uh, for your audience. So yeah, Mazel Mazer here. I'm uh born and raised in New York City. So as you can imagine, I'm on Cloud9 with the next victory. Right. First NBA championship in 53 years, long suffering mixed fed. So incredibly excited. Um, I'm currently in customer success. I've been doing it now approaching a year, but most of my professional career was uh in nonprofit management, fundraising, development. Uh sort of did everything, soup to nuts, from events to planned giving to annual fund to major gifts, kind of did it all, alumni relations, which is uh kind of an offshoot as well. But yeah, overall, really excited to be here and talk about leadership and and everything else. So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Yeah, we are so excited to have you here. So I'm gonna give a little backstory where we're not gonna stay there, but so we met Oh yes, I'm sorry. We should have looked it up and said, I think it's been you said two years. I think it's been more than that. I think it's I think it's been when did you get okay? So we met because you were going to study for your CAPM.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yes, that's correct. So I was I one day I just decided, you know what, I want to get a credential to project management. I had been doing project management like sort of uncredentialed, right? We also I think all of us are project managers in some to some extent, but I thought it would be a good professional kind of like notch to have on my resume. So I decided to do it. And I initially went for the Kappa and then I eventually went for the PMP. And so, and when I was looking for best courses, I again this might be more more my imagination. Maybe this is the way this is I'm sticking to this story now. I think I typed in best project management course in Google or something like that, and I came across Joe Phillips' uh courses on and so that's and he is the best, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

He is the best.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

He is the best, he is frankly the best. He I I his CACM courses and then his PMP course a PMP course were I I it prepared me very well for an incredibly difficult test. Um and uh and yeah, yeah, I I passed I passed the first time taking both of them, and so I was really I attribute that to the courses and also to you, Amanda, because you were wonderful. So whenever I had questions and I had challenges or whatever, you would you were right there to answer them. So I appreciate Joe. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And again, I think Joe's do just doing, has done and continues to do a great service for those who want to pursue.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

Yeah, for over 30 years, it's done great. I I honestly I I talked to him a few weeks ago, but I we didn't talk uh shop. And so I don't know uh what to what extent he's teaching at this point. Um, but for those of you who don't know, I worked um as as his assistant for six years, and so that is how we got connected because you were emailing um some questions about some stuff, and I was like, hey, let me help. And we kind of went back and forth. So we have emailed literally for years back and forth. For years at this point, yeah. Now we have this amazing opportunity to meet and um God is so good at the open stores like that. And I have watched you grow and develop and and gain your certifications and change into this new role. Um, I've seen pictures and videos of you up on stage doing all kinds of amazing nonprofit stuff. And this company was a nonprofit when my parents had it for the 30 years that they had it. And when I reopened, I did not, I did not want to go through what my mother had to go through to have a nonprofit. And so I watched that for years and it was very difficult, and that that was very scary, so I did not do that. But I could have, I could have I could have called you and relied on you for that. You would have had a lot of information, probably.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

You got it.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

But I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, for you had to kind of plan this out pretty far in the future, and so we've we've anxiously awaited.

unknown 5:05

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

I think Sloan has some some questions for us, and she's gonna uh kind of ask back and forth, and then we'll talk about a few things. So we'll just get going.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

That's rock and roll. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

I'm I'm ready. Here we go. Okay, Mazel. What first drew you to relationship-centered work?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Goodness. I think I was drawn to it at a very early age. Uh when I was one of my very first uh memories is when I was in high school, I started volunteering for an organization out of the sop rocks. And it was just working. So I was a teenager and I was working with like my peers, but also a lot of them were you know kids, you know, who you said a few years younger, you know, when you're 15 and a kid is 10 or 9, there's like a huge gulf. You know, it feels like there's a huge gulf. But you know, dealing with the little ones. And I I loved kind of teaching, adding value, being a mentor, um, you know, as much as you can provide wisdom at 15 or 16 years old. But I think I I was always sort of drawn to that type of work. Uh the people who I admired were often the folks that managed the program. And these were a lot of them were social workers, a lot of them were folks who had really developed a career, you know, had developed had had invested time and money and resources to working with, you know, kids in the sub rocks. I mean, I I just found them to be incredibly noble, decent people. So those were like my idols in many respects. And so uh they were selfless, they really cared. Um, I gravitated towards one in particular. We were very close friends. I'm an older brother, so I didn't have an older brother of my own, but this gentleman was sort of an older brother to me. And I think he was a he had his license. He was a like a yeah, he was a licensed social worker. So and you know, he was into music, I was into so we just really and I I I again that type of work, service work really was kind of it just seemed incredibly attractive attractive to me. So when I was when it was time to eventually, you know, as I got older and decided on a career, I felt like I definitely wanted to do something that was service oriented, and that's why I started my career at Doc Prof.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

Yeah, and you've done that for a long time now. I mean, in different in different ways and in different um positions. And so get tell us a secret about that. How how do you gain client trust? What was the best way that you do that?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Well, I think you're you go you gain client trust. I think it was Stephen Covey said you become you develop, you acquire trust by being trustworthy, or or something like that. I I I'm a big fan of Stephen Covey. I've read his seven habits numerous times. And uh But I believe it that I believe that you have to it's not about faking it, it's about being a trying to you're trying your hardest. And we're you know, we're all imperfect, right? We're all sinners, but trying to have virtue, to lead a life of virtue, to lead a life of service, because that is what we're called to talking a little bit about that off-camera before we came on, that you know, it's really just so much more about who you are as a person.

SPEAKER_04 8:12

Um, and that's gonna come out. You you you know, there's people who can maybe fake it for a little while and get bobby a little while, but that only lasts a long time.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

It only lasts so long. People have a real, you know, uh a strong BS radar, you know, they could tell when someone is lying. And I think again, they are some people who are incredibly deceptively, you know, very good at that, which is sort of scary. But I think most people, I think, just have common good common sense, and they could they can feel whether or not someone has their genuine, the the has their the their self-interest. Like they say, I want you to succeed, I want to add value to your life. This is incredibly important for me because I feel that that is my vocation. My vocation is to add value, and it gives me happiness to know that. And so, yeah, so I I think people can tell whether you mean it or not.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

And I I do too. I think I I I I know that I can tell when people are very sincere or they're more off on their own agenda. Um, and it's you know, and I'm I'm okay with that too. Just be transparent about it. Tell me you're running, you know, that you're feeling it's just about more about what you want, and that's you know, at least we're being honest about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I think uh another, another, what is like another of uh I think it was Covey's peer, maybe he was a little older than Covey, was uh my God, uh Zig Ziggler. Yeah, he said that if you help people if you help people get what they want, they'll help you get what you want. And I think it's mutually it's a mutually beneficial, like look, you know, we all have you know, we all have needs, we all have, you know, uh we have to pay mortgages, we have to put our kids through it everybody gets that. But the way you do it is by adding value. And I think I heard that money really at the end of the day are just certificates of appreciation with president's faces on. That's all money is. It's just a certificate of appreciation with presidents' faces on.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

If you yeah, so we were having some conversations about this the other day, just in in general, and because of some other situations and just people that you know we've been praying for and situations. And and I think like what and what I keep coming back to and in a Bible study that I'm in too is what I keep like God just keeps putting this on my heart is like this is not my home. My home is an eternity. God is my provider. It doesn't, you know, I'm not gonna say it doesn't matter because what I do does matter, right? It matters my attitude, my behavior, the way that I do things.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

It matters to use.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

Yeah, but ultimately God is the provider, right? He's the one who is going to provide the things that we need resources, money, people, all of the functions that we need. We we have to rely on that. And when the world seems like it's crumbling down around us, which often it will, that that's the key, is you have to stand in that hope and that peace. And it has taken a long time to really, really embrace that. It's it's hard and you waver on it sometimes, right? Like, ugh, I want to fix it. I wanna, you know, like I wanna I want to make it right. And it sometimes is just not within our control to do that. And and and unfortunately, I keep having to learn that lesson over and over again because I I But we are but we are what do you got for us next?

SPEAKER_03 11:22

How did these earlier experiences, especially you were talking about you were doing your your volunteer work in was it the South Bronx?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah, the South Bronx in New York City, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

How did some of those early experiences prepare you for customer service?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Oh my goodness. I I I think foundationally people want to be heard, people want to be respected. Everyone, you know, is made in the image of God. And they and because of that, they deserve respect, they respect honor. And so, and I learned that, you know, again from my experiences growing up, you know, in my family and and and my grandmother doing such a great job, I think, inculcating us with those values. And then, you know, applying those values to just uh the kids that I worked with. And uh and that I think those values, those those lessons really I I I try to apply to my personal life and to my professional life. When it comes to colleagues, when it comes to clients, and you know, recognizing that they have inherent worth, they have worth just whether or not they're rich, whether they're poor, doesn't matter, doesn't matter where they come from, doesn't matter how they worship. At the end of the day, it's that they're made in the they're made in the Imago Day. You know, they have the Imago Day, they have the image of God.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah, you need to come on your Dr. Leander, shout out Imago Day.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I'm you throwing some Latin out.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

And uh so Yeah, you guys need to get together.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah, and uh We have shirts for that and everything Imago Day, all right, Imagude.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

And and I just please do.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And I don't know, I think that um that's really I think that's sort of it. I I think it it's just it's pretty simple, but it's I think it's the truth. I uh you know those those principles are true, whether or not we agree with it, with some whether or not someone agrees with them or not. At the end of the day, people are they have inherent worth. And because of that, they and us, we all are we all deserve respect, and we all deserve in uh to be treated with integrity and uh and you know we have to add value, and um, and hopefully people add value to our lives as well. And so, yeah, it's a such a virtuous circle, and I really believe that's the way that God created the universe, create you know, create that those are so just laws that are baked into reality, and so Amen. That's how I I agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 13:41

You didn't know you were gonna come on here and preach to us today.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Oh no, no. Again, you never know, but uh but not much.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

The Holy Spirit has a really amazing way of just putting the right things and the right people in the right places at the right time, and so um no, I what a what a blessing. And we were talking a little bit off screen about that too. We won't go on a whole theology thing, but we're talking about how it's not those it you and I and and and the basics are there, right? We we serve God. And so if that's there, we have a great foundation. And even if it's not there, we have a great foundation to pour into other people and to love other people as Christ would do so, regardless of what their current belief is, right? And it's not, you know, it's not so much our job to try to change a person. That's not our job, right? That's God's job. We can't, we can't change a person, but we can show them the love of God and and that we're all, you know, here for a purpose and that each individual person has a purpose. And so what a what a beautiful umbrella to sit under for all of us as well. And and for those who don't agree with that, that's okay too. You know, we we just want to love you. We want um to surround you with, you know, kindness and goodness because that's really what what we're here for. And anyways, that was like, you know, we kind of got off on a tangent.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

That's fine. No, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

No, I think it's really important. And what I am drawn to and and other people, what I noticed quickly is if someone is a respecter of persons or if they just respect people, right? Like I give you the utmost respect because you're successful, you're wealthy. That's not what Jesus loves about you, you know, and so we're we're called to to respect people who the at you know as who they are right there in the moment, and hopefully show them the love of Jesus if they don't know it and affirm the love of Jesus if they do know it. And so that basic respect and dignity, you you said the word respect, uh, and it just it reminded me of that. That are we respecting people for who they were created to be by God.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that the the their value, a person's value comes from the fact that God willed them into existence. That good old.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

And it kind of goes against like our human nature because of sin, right? It's not our it's it's kind of more, I would say, um, in all transparency, it's more sometimes innate to go, well, you know, they don't believe the way that I do, or they don't do the way that I do, or they're not doing right and they're not living their lives right, whatever that means, right? Whatever the definition of right is, um, which of course we we go to the Bible for that and and and God's command. However, it is kind of like this sinful human nature to just kind of look at people and not automatically see and and behave the way that you're saying. And so we kind of have to retrain ourselves. And I think that's part of just the um the process of sanctification through it is like becoming who Christ wants you to be so that you can treat other people the way that they should be treated as well. And and the further along we get in that, the better the better we are as people, as humans, as family members, as co-workers, as all that, you know, is because we're we're actively seeking uh the process of not just like being a good person, but being a Christ follower and giving mighty action.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Yeah, being holy, become holy, be holy because I'm yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Okay. We have other questions? We do, but I'm enjoying this. I'm like, I don't even want to ask my question. Go for it.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Let's do it. We can mix it all together.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Yeah, let me ask another question and we'll just come back to this point. I think is is the point of this conversation, right? How would you explain customer success to someone who's new in the field? That even that phrase is new to me. I you know, I hadn't heard that.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Yeah, it's pretty new. Uh soft, so there's a whole industry called software as a service, SaaS for sure. So uh it's what for instance, uh like Netflix is a service, software as a service, right? Or now Microsoft, right? You know, I'm old enough to remember that when you used like when like when you had the operating system or you had like Word or Excel, you actually had to buy it. Uh but nowadays you can actually kind of rent it. And so, and then if you don't we know it.

SPEAKER_04 18:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

So you rent it and then you rent it. And then so there's an incentive. Previously, there wasn't an incentive for a company to ensure that you derive value from their product in a way. In a way, there, yes, they wanted you to kind of be a repeat customer, but once you bought a software and you applied it to your computer, that was it. It was like one and done. Now, because it's rented, uh, and there are kind of timelines, right? Okay, we signed a contract for, let's say, a renewal or whatever, and it comes up to like a specific date into the future. The onus is on the provider to ensure that you get value from that particular product or that service. So customer success was bored out of that. And I believe it was actually Salesforce that actually was the very first developer of the idea because they started identifying that they were experiencing quote unquote churn. A lot of the people who were buying Salesforce, their their software, their CRM, a lot of them were leaving within a year's time. So there was, yes, there was a lot of clients coming in the front door, but a lot of clients were leaving from the back door. And there was a gentleman, I forget his actual name, but they called him Dr. Doom or something like that. Because he actually, one day at a very large sales conference, Salesforce conference, identified, hey, this is stuff we're churning a lot of clients, and we need to address this. And so I think that a lot of people, it might be more apocrypha than anything, but they attribute that time, that day, that gentleman, Dr. Doom, spoke to the beginning of customer success. So customer success.

SPEAKER_04 19:45

I'm not gonna disagree with it, but I'm gonna say that my dad probably actually I was gonna say probably Jesus uh was probably the quick one. And then my dad, because my dad teaches a lot on customer service.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

And he he does an incredible uh a job with that, and it's amazing. And he kind of picks your brain and makes you like, oh, I didn't think about that.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah, exactly. And so so, really, my job, guys, is to ensure that the folks who use in the company, that people who buy our our software, that we use our product get the value that they hope to acquire. At the end of the day, it's that simple. So at that end, let me give a shout out.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

We've been fighting with Microsoft over a couple of different things. We came in one day and like our bookings pages were gone, they don't work anymore, which is very difficult to book people when your bookings pages won't work. However, we finally got a really great customer service representative who was trying very hard to help me through it. We got one page back, we're working on another one. That's right. But so I understand the concept of it. And I also understand funny enough, I follow a lady on Instagram who works um in customer service on like kind of through that same general idea.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:52

And I also understand that it's very difficult, right? Because you have people that have like high emotions, yeah, and and they're frustrated because the product's not working and you need it to work, and I can't do what I'm supposed to do if it doesn't work. And so there's there's a lot of emotions to it because we're an emotional being.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah, we're emotional. Yeah, we're emotional creatures. Yeah, I think that's where you have to, that's where I think a lot of emotional intelligence, the EQ comes in, like being able to breathe, you know. I don't think any of us like to be on the receiving end of an angry or an upset client phone call or email. It's never, you know, it's it's not something that we that we look forward to in the morning, but it happens, you know. And I think it's a it's your approach. It's one understanding that, okay, you know, again, the going back to the whole value question, you know, someone, this is important for them because they've invested time and money with the hope that your product or your service can address a problem that they are currently facing. And so understandably, there's emotional, an emotional investment for this to work, a financial investment for this to work. Right. And so putting yourself in their shoes, although it might be difficult at times, is incredibly crucial. And I think that's also where kind of maturity and emotional regulation. comes in like obviously like breathing like okay and then you know not getting overwhelmed by the by their initial response and then bringing on the temperature by altering the solution or sometimes people just want a vent they just want to be heard and and once you hear them out then you realize you realize and then you realize okay perhaps this is not this is not as big of a deal as you think there is a solution to this this is not the first time this particular issue or hurdle has been identified and we have a solution so yeah so customer success is really cool so it's sort of like the mix of both customer service but also you're kind of like also consulting because you're a counselor you're a counselor so trying to so there's a lot of questions that come involved that are involved so like success you know Sloane and Amanda you guys have different maybe have different definitions of success perhaps so it's my job to understand what your definition of success is at the end of the day six months from now 12 months from now what do you hope is what has changed I think uh I think Joe used to say the desired there was a term he used to use all the time in his courses about the desired future state or something like that. There's a desired Yeah so yeah so there's a desired future state it's you're here today but here's your desired future state and there's a gulf between the two so how so what does this look like and then how do we bridge the gap? And then that's where I think customer success comes in.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

You know you see that in it it's in so many different realms and my background the people that I'm working with now my background is very different. I came from public library world. I was like a librarian and I I got my master's of library science from Louisiana State University. And really what those science taught yes LHG what those 18 months told me taught me other than I can do just about anything with a cup of coffee and two hours of sleep because I was getting that master's and working full time was it's not enough to have something. Like the library has a lot of things but if the people coming in don't know, can't find it can't find it themselves, you know, that it's not enough and how are you going to help these people like you said cross that gulf between you've got it and I need it. Exactly. And so you have to teach that and they need to be able to do it independently.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

Exactly of you exactly and so applicable across every single industry right because it may not be a tangible thing right it might be a knowledge that we need that to get us from point A to point B. We might need to have these good conversations or you might just need to get on the call and like hey walk me through this or show me where it is or like you know for like you said Sloan where like I want this book where is it I can't find it or whatever that you know it's so industry wide and I think that the customer success is is exactly what it says is we're making the customer successful. Whatever that takes from point A to point B, if it's in a hotel room and we're getting you to your you know where you are happy and comfortable and all of that, if it's in a library, if it's you know on a on a software program that we're working through I know like we we have learning platforms which is also you know in the same kind of industry that you're in we have to be able to use it right it has to be workable and usable and user friendly and we have to have a team of people behind that that we can rely on like hey show us what to do or we're stuck or this is broke. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

And so how do those people behind that you know behind those initiatives of customer success how do they best bring that to the forefront and I think you know you can attest more to that but I think at the end of the day it's kindness right it's really at the end of the day it's it's about adding value to a human person's life and and and kindness and all that kindness respect empathy humility listening trying to really understand what the what the kind of like what the challenge is in that particular moment and then you know because by understanding what the challenge is you could offer a better solution to it. Absolutely and yeah I agree with you Amanda it's all about adding value and then and as a consequence as a consequence you get as a business or as whatever as a professional you get value as well. Right so like whether it's the you know you get more customers or that's sort of a a consequence of it which is obviously good because we know especially if you're in a for-profit endeavor that you know you definitely need customers you need profit but the question is okay how do you get that right how profit and then if you start kind of peeling the onion the answer is you get profit the certificates of appreciation with presidents faces on them by adding value and caring about your customers.

SPEAKER_02 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

If you do that the other stuff will take care of itself and so I think sometimes unfortunately the discussion sometimes you know out there with you know whomever gurus or business gurus they often focus on the outcome like no forget the in a way forget the outcome maybe I'm being naive guys I don't know but I really believe that focus on adding value. And if you add value then the outcome takes care of itself.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Yeah I had a similar conversation um yesterday with some brilliant individuals and we were talking similarly to this but more in the PMO and EPMO space talking about how it's so important in those spaces that we add value and we find the value and that we you know help others draw that out to see the value and and that that's kind of been lost in that space and there's there's a wonderful group of people that are trying to bring that back.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Yeah and and and I look I'm so blessed like I I'm I'm just like sitting at the heels of the giants of all these things you know all these amazing people and just like you know all starstruck. But and and same with you like I I know that this is such a passion of yours and you've worked a really really long time to hone in on what does customer service mean? What does it really look like in the field in multiple fields in in nonprofit and profit um in all these areas it it it shines through the work that you do and I don't sure that you know that or not but it really really does. And you know we're we're in a world of social media LinkedIn not LinkedIn whatever and so we can say whatever we want but I know I I have we'll attribute it to the Holy Spirit for sure but I have an uncanny way of kind of just being able to like see through and just know like this person is really genuine and I've I've known for a long time that you are and it's an honor to kind of watch what you you know how you've grown and and and just the interactions and just you're very very encouraging and and it's sincere and I think that makes all the difference in the world.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

I think when our hearts are in the right place we are so much more I mean we might get frustrated right there's days that we get frustrated we're all human we're flesh and blood you know we're like yeah we get tired we get cranky yeah absolutely there's days when phone and I were like we just have to stop we have to pray we're like okay like it's me I need to walk I need to get away from you know this like we're we again yeah yeah we're we're we're all I normally walk about I get normally three puffs like yeah and she'll go okay why don't you go on a walkabout I'm like yeah I think I I think I will get better after a walk after a walk everything and it's funny because growing up in New York one thing you do in New York a lot is walk. This is terrible and I love walking it's I I'm not a jogger I don't like to I'm not a mar I'm not a marathon but I do like no I'm not I'm into fitness I I do like to I do like fitness I am also not a runner so don't feel bad. But every time I run I just feel very like my shins hurt but walking and it's incredible what it does obviously for your physical health but also for your mental health your spiritual health you know our bodies were designed for movement you know sitting in front of a computer for hours is not match I didn't know you were gonna have him come on here and preach to us yeah I'm like I'm gonna end this recording thanks everybody for thanks for coming thanks for coming folks we're weird time no I do want to uh Mazelle I do want to touch on you're talking about adding value but to add value we have to listen for that value that is a phrase that we use all the time now our great friend Dr.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

LaFrance wrote a book on listening for value I thought I was a good listener. I read his book I'm mediocre at best once a week maybe a mediocre listener. Yeah but you know that that's something we have to actively be doing but how does data help you guide conversations yes data is evidence.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Data is evidence and data is very it's crucial you know I'm not the most quantitative guy. You know Math was never my strong student school I was always I always lean more towards the uh I guess the humanities English religion philosophy things of that nature but I uh as I've grown older uh and I into my career I see the great value of of just data and you know in a way numbers there's a beauty to numbers you know like I it throughout our lives you know I've I'm sure we've encountered people who just love math and you ask why do you love math so much and they I often like a refrain I often hear guys that I've heard throughout the years is that math is it it's it's clear. Like it's definite there's a lot of hyperbole there's a lot of smoky mirrors uh in rhetoric and and all that you know uh you know politicians can say X but that's okay let's look at the numbers like what does the right you know and I think there is a certain truth to data. And I think that uh I I use data quite often in my job. And so that I have learned throughout the years to really kind of embrace data. You know I I I like I likely will never be a mathematician in my life but I don't know with AI but I don't need to be I need to be no I I know percentages I know decibels I know that and I can and I can see when there's a certain discrepancy and sure you know something that we at our at our job what we try to do is okay so we kind of step back okay if the goal is revenue right if for most of our organizations revenue is a big goal right they want to they got this tool because they want to add more revenue to their books that's okay like how do you do that? And then you start looking at data and say okay well in order to get this outcome this is the this is how this is the sort of data that should be reflected in what you're giving us like you need so you need to kind of construct a portfolio that is conducive to that outcome. And we rely entirely on data to do that. And it's not guessing it's not like well I have a I have a hunch or my spidey sense tells me this it's not tingling. There is uh and that's where data comes in and and then I think my experience guys has been and this is probably your experience too that when you offer data it's clients usually nod but okay I see it now like I see what you're trying to tell me. I get it's tangible it's tangible it's like it's it's tactile I could touch it and and that it's like hey and then it's also very empowering because it's like look if we can change this feature here that is weak and we can and we can this is and we could tell you how to do that then there's no guarantees in life besides death and taxes. You know like you likely are going to see greater success. Yeah it's kind of like your health right like your doctor can say okay this is your cholesterol this is your blood pressure and if we make these tweaks we're likely going to increase the value the the the extent your life and the quality so yeah I love to we're we're on a we're like we're on a a collective keto whole thing right now are you and I love to yeah well I did it before um a long time ago and I lost like 120 pounds.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

And you know in life just you know this that and the other and opening the business and everything and so we've decided we're doing this thing we're doing it again because I know it works and and and to be honest and when I did it before I did it my mother had cancer and I was taking care of her and this was before keto was cool. And so I was doing all this research like how can I help my mom? What can we do? And I found this fantastic um group of research from multiple different entities talking about how it's so helpful to cancer patients because sugar feeds cancer. And so we started kind of not all at once but we can started um kind of incrementally taking away things like that um in and trying to better her health and and because I was staying with her and taking care of her it was logical you know we were cooking certain things and things like that. And it it worked phenomenally. And so you know you like also we could talk about that too but you know how like you know something works and then you just you're like I don't what's wrong with us that we just don't do it, you know, I know it works but I strayed away from it.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

That's that's a whole philosophical it's philosophical we could talk about human nature it's like like I don't like like you know it's funny like why do doctors sometimes I pass by a doctor's office or a hospital and I see nurses and doctors smoking. Like what what are you doing? What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 35:44

But uh but yeah so like human the the human psyche back to the data on what I love about it is is I I do very much and I'm not a math person either just so you know but I love that we have these technology and these tools now like I can put in there like here's my weight now. And what's funny is I still have it in there from like years past and it's kept the data that whole time. So I know where I was and then I went way up right and now I'm coming back down. And I love watching that because it's a motivator to me. It motivates me that hey I did this before I can do it again. It it's a long tail and it takes a while but we'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 36:19

We'll get there.

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Yeah so even even though I'm not a math person in fact I try to stay as far away from it as I can I very much like to I'm I'm very visual and I like to see that I like to see that there's a result in this I can see and when we do our metrics when we're doing marketing efforts and things like that even like with this um with this podcast when you're logging into YouTube and you're seeing like okay well there this worked this didn't this went better than this or things like that it's important that we not stake everything on the data or the metrics but it's important that we watch it um that we look at it we learn from it like you said um because we can grow from it so yeah it's a it's it's it's like an arrow in one's quiver.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

You know I think like in baseball you hear this argument this argument often like is it are we going to be strictly focused on the stats like quantitative or are we going to also rely on on kind of like that gut feel like okay right and I think often at my experience has been I'm not the biggest I'm a I'm a fan of baseball I'm not the biggest fan I have friends who are deeply involved with baseball but I think just talking to them I've I kind of get the sense that a healthy mix of the two that data along with the the wisdom and the insights you have gleaned from the career in in baseball or you name it in anything any inhuman endeavor is is probably maybe the best that's like the secret that's the secret sauce right there. It's like kind of mixing yeah absolutely sound did you have anything so we we always ask the every guest the same two questions I don't know if you've listened before this but we always ask the same two questions I don't know if we're there yet are we there yet or we are there this is my favorite this has been fun we have we have arrived okay Mazel name a leader you admire and share briefly how they've influenced you why they've influenced you I you know it's funny you know who's been on my mind recently within the last few days it's very timely is Jalen Brunson from um although and the reason I bring him up is yeah he won the championship or his team won the championship but he sacrificed I don't know if you guys know this but uh he sacrificed like a hundred million dollars from his own salary to allow the organization flexibility to acquire other players to assist in the uh in the possibility uh making it happen for the team to win a championship that's beautiful he went out of his like again you know he's he'll be fine he he got he you know he he got millions of dollars uh still but he left I think it was like 113 115 million dollars that he could have received in the negotiations and he said no like I'll sacrifice that because I want the Knicks I want my team to have the the financial wherewithal to get the players that are going to help us become successful. And there so that I think so that willingness to sacrifice to put your money where your mouth is to for the greater good I think is incredible. And I saw this is before the championship he was doing a press conference as they often do right you know reporters are asking all sort of like the same 10 questions and one of the reporters asked him you know sort of and again I'm paraphrasing but like since you are the star of the team and then the question was whatever it was and Jalen Brunson said I'm not a star I'm just a I'm just a member of the team. Like right and so and he is the star. I mean he's the best player he's one of the best players in the league some people are saying he's like the best player in that NBA right now and he's only six foot one which is short in the NBA it is yes and so I love that attitude that he's always deflecting praise from himself and he's always laying it back to giving it back to his teammates to his coaches to the his parents he in the whole city loves him because of this. It's like like how could you not like respect somebody like that? And so when I think of leadership when I was thinking about this question he I have many others I could probably rattle off but I think for me is Jalen Brunson has really displayed sort of like just a willingness to you know yeah like lay down his if his life might be too too dramatic but really lay down a lot for his yeah for his teen for his teammates for the city of New York that had been starred for a championship I mean it makes me I admittedly I'm not I'm not big into sports when I was younger and we lived close to Atlanta we we we actually got to go like under the the stadium and stuff and like meet the Braves and all that and it was very cool. So like we got to go to the break Chipper Jones and Chipper yes small it was great.

SPEAKER_04 41:22

It was I have pictures um with them and stuff and it was really I'm I'm sure they do not remember me but that's okay. But I was like 12. But no I mean it was really great because there were some of them that were a large portion of that team if not all of them were just so so gracious and kind and humble and so willing to just let people come in and talk to them. And that's when back when I might get this might be unpopular but when baseball was affordable and we could actually go a bunch of sports is so but and then we also went to a lot of hockey because we had a hockey team there for a long time and it was I don't I honestly I'm not in in the loop but I love watching hockey super big fan um if I had to pick one sport that would probably be hockey it's hockey yeah I just love it. It's so fun it's like so it's hard to be a hockey fan in Arkansas. We struggle quite a bit we have never we don't have it it is so fast paced.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

I went to uh it was at a ranger no it was a Devil's gate in New Jersey Devil a couple of years ago it was my very first hockey game and I was amazed at the pace how you know you see it on the TV you know you see them going back and forth but seeing it live is just totally different in person. Incredibly different I think more so than any other sport that I as like you know you see basketball on the on the screen that's likely what you're going to sort of experience you know with obviously some right but hockey is very distant distinctive when you see it in person. It's very different.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Yeah Sloan's right we're we don't have as much opportunity here for like sports teams and go see sports because again when I lived in Georgia we we saw we went to a lot of events like that. In Atlanta yeah we just don't yeah we don't have a lot of that now but it makes me want to go look him up because I love that humbleness and I love that it's great living spirit. It's great um and I also love the concept of and I I try very hard I don't I I don't think any of us meet the market any you know any given time but um or all the time but I try very hard for the same mentality no matter what team I'm working with is that we are a team right it's not that I mean even this is not the Amanda show I do not want it to be the Amanda show I I want to be a team and that's why I make Sloan come on here. I'm like you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

And Slun is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

Goodness gracious I'm doing my best.

SPEAKER_03 43:39

You're doing great what I love about that story is he sacrificed for an opportunity. There was no return on investment right how many people looking at the statistics for a high ROI would be like oh that's not in my best interest and you know and it wasn't enough that he sacrificed he continued to have to work. Yeah he continued to have to work

SPEAKER_00 44:00

That's one other thing, guys. So I I going back to what I shared earlier, he's only he's only 6'1, right? So in basketball that's considered short. He has often been underestimated by a lot of like scouts, pundits. There was a recent uh there was a pundit, it was I forget her name. She said that because of his height, he'll never be like, he'll never be able to lead his team to the pit off. And uh and he proved everybody wrong. How did he do it? By working his butt off, by dedicating hours and hours and hours in the gym. His father was a former NBA player. His father was never, he was like a bench player. He never his his father never had the success that Jalen Brunson has. But uh he instilled in his son the importance of hard work, dedication, consistency. That kind of success is often, you know, it's like a it's like a it's a nice curve, right? You see the very top, but no one sees the vast amount of time and sacrifice that you spent in the gym or the library or right. Um but yeah, so yeah, he's he's a he's a really wonderful, I think.

SPEAKER_04 45:08

Fantastic answer. Now I want to like go learn something. Yeah, check him out.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's really he's he's and he's also kind of self-deprecating too. Like he's uh so again, it's just like he's just like a a likable guy.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

So yeah, yeah. Very nice. I like that answer. All right, I will I will follow you up with the next one. When you think about your legacy, what lasting impact do you hope to have?

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Goodness. I want uh it when in my eulogy, which I hope is like hundreds of years from now, but uh but like you know, the day that the good Lord calls me home and uh people are talking about me. I want that I was that Mizel was a guy that you know really cared, that was uh that really tried his best to uh radiate the love of of God. And you know, and you know through what I did, through what I said, through times when I showed restraint and uh you know that that uh you know, like uh that I lifted people up and that I wanted and that they know without a shadow of a doubt that I wanted them to succeed. And that uh and succeed in all val in all not just materially. I mean that is, you know, I think sometimes in these conversations not in these conversations, but when we talk about success, it's often really focused primarily on material success. And that's just part of it. I think I think the most uh and again Covey, you know, and again, Covey got it from the Lord, you know, like focus on, you know, focus first on the kingdom, you know, and I think that spiritually it's the most like spiritual success, financial success, physic physical success, social success, mental success, all that is it's there's like an ecology. It's all interconnected. If any of those are off, there's it's like a if any of those are not calibrated correctly, you're not gonna be incredibly happy. So my goal, I hope, is that when people look back on me, my life, how I try to live it, imperfectly is uh, you know, obviously, you know, uh as but that I wanted that for them, that I wanted them to have spiritual success, material success, psychological success, social success, and physically successful.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

It's beautiful. And if if anyone ever embodied that through email, it is you.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

But in all honesty, like I like I don't know that I can name another person because I through my time um in that position, a lot of my interaction was through email because we really didn't do a lot of phone calls or meetings and stuff like that. And I don't know that there was another person that I would be so truly like honored to meet and to talk to in person because just every interaction we had a lot of interaction over the years, and every interaction was just like so kind and and so like I think one time like I totally destroyed your name in an email, and it was so unintentional.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

It's not the first time, you know. It's funny because like I caught it. I have heard it all, like I have heard it all, Minda.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

And I was like, oh my gosh, but but you were so gracious and so kind, and we were just able to just learn from each other even through email.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah, no, no worries.

SPEAKER_04 48:22

I think that that shines throughout like all that you're doing, and what an honor to meet you finally. The same hair, same hair, guys. I mean, just you're just an incredible human being, and and it's just absolutely an honor to know you and and to have had the interactions back and forth. It just really, really incredible.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Thank you, Amanda. I feel the same way. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

And I feel like I'm so like I'm so proud of you. You have worked so hard and done so many things in the last few years that have just been absolutely incredible. And so I'm just I'm really honored to have had you on here. And I hope maybe I can have you on again in the future.

SPEAKER_00 49:04

Anytime, anywhere can be of help, you let me know. I would love to do it.

SPEAKER_04 49:07

And shameless plug, if you're listening in, go and like and subscribe and do all those things because it does help. Um, we're not doing this podcast to make money at all. Um, in fact, we make zero money, but we would, you know, all everybody listening in. Um, the point is that we want to hear your story. And if you uh if you know or anybody listening knows of people that need to come on and tell their story and and talk about, you know, different things in business, not business, whatever, um, we we welcome that. Contact us and let us know. So honored to have you on. I could literally talk to you for hours.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

I no worries, I could do the same. You guys are you guys have been so charitable, so kind, and so I really appreciate the hospitality. And I look forward to continuing the conversation. So thank you again for having me.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

Well, and if there's ever anything that you know you need from us or we can do or help out, just knowledge work or whatever we need to any of that, uh the honor is mine, and and I extend that to you um wholeheartedly. So and Sloane, thank you. Thank you for being a part of this with me.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

You rocked, you were great.

SPEAKER_03 50:10

Thank you. Thank you. It's a compliment coming from you.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Thank you, thank you so much.