SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hi, and welcome to Drop Shots with Kristen, where we discuss all things tennis, tennis strategy, leadership, nutrition, exercise, and the latest tech to help you play tennis for many years to come. Today I'm thrilled to introduce you to Yvonne Garrett. We'll hear her best practices regarding captaining and leading a successful tennis team. Yvonne has spent over 30 years working in the government and nonprofit sector here in the San Diego area. She also originally started playing tennis in her 30s for an improved work-life balance, where she met her husband Hank on the tennis courts. In the early 2000s, they became the number one mixed doubles team in SoCal, and now they travel the world going to tennis tournaments all over the globe, and they still play five to six days a week. Yvonne has captained 4-0 Ladies League tennis for five consecutive years. She should get a medal for that. And that said, she's probably forgotten more about tennis and tennis team captaining than we'll know in our lifetimes. On a personal note, I have played on several tennis teams and found Yvonne's captaining style and systems to be excellent. It's a tough job and she makes it look easy. So let's find out how. So welcome Yvonne. Thank you for coming to my home and sharing some of your best practices. I'm happy to be here. Thank you. So I thought we'd start with the rules, and I know that's always a tough area for a lot of people. So, you know, in general, from let's say 50,000 feet, is there anything you want to share with us before we get into the specifics in terms of rules?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Well, it's interesting because there are crazy rules in tennis, just like golf. And there is a book that's called The Friend of Tennis, Friend Friend of the Court, and that's all the tennis rules. And um they don't always make sense. And the one that I've found particularly challenging uh socially and in league play is the hindrance rule. Okay, and that's because it's vague. The rule says basically um if a player uh is intentionally or unintentionally hampered during a point, you may or may not be able to call a hindrance. So, you know, it's like what does that mean? So if your hat falls off and the person your your opponent says that's a hindrance, it is a hindrance. And so you would play a let.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

But if your opponent started waving their arms while you were getting ready to serve, you could call a hindrance and they would lose the point because it is a hindrance, but it was intentional as opposed to unintentional. Um but if your shoe falls off, that's not a hindrance.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

What?

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Because you know it wasn't in your control. So the the rules, the rule, particularly in hindrance, I always found to be a challenge in in a league match because you have to call it immediately. You can't hit the ball and then go, hindrance, you know, you have to stop play, got it, which is a challenge for players. And then secondly, there isn't clear definitive guidelines about what you should do in all cases.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Okay, so it's very subjective.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Very subjective.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Thank you. It sounds like it's very subjective in terms of the hindrance rule. Any other best practices you recommend for the rules?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Well, my husband was an umpire, and so fortunately for me, every year he would get a new friend of the court rule book because he had to study them. Um, and so he had about eight different years worth of friend of the court. And so one day I just I just stole one of his friend of the court's and put it in a Ziploc bag and kept it in my tennis bag in the event that something came up that I really didn't know about. Frankly, though, what typically happens in a league match is the two captains sort of get together and try and figure out a solution together. And you know, you just do the best you can because most people don't have a rule book with them. And even if you have a rule book, it's not always clear what the answer is.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Okay, excellent. So um have you ever experienced team fallout when maybe the rule doesn't necessarily go in your favor or the team's favor? And how would you handle that?

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I really haven't. One of the things that I found about the league play, and maybe it's because it it was league, but it was social league, I would, I would call it. And people were there to play tennis, and for the most part, not really there to to get into arguments about roles.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Um, so if I had run into a situation like that, I probably wouldn't have been captain for five years. I think somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Okay, okay. So the nature of the league is really going to kind of determine if there's a big problem or not, sort of what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yeah, and you you see that even in professional challenger play when you know young players are are trying to get points to move up the ladder and get into bigger tournaments. At the beginning of the tournament, everybody's kumbaya, right? And then the closer you get to the finals, the more you know things start to get a little more dicey and a little more persnickety. So, you know, it it, I guess that's the nature of the business, but fortunately I didn't have to worry about that too often.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Excellent, excellent. Even in the 4-0 leagues, okay. So anything else about rules before we transition to uh the idea about setting team goals?

SPEAKER_01 6:37

I think the only thing that I often found people who were new to league at to our particular league was the um tie breaks. Okay. So the ladies' league that that I capped in did a Komen tiebreak, which is where everybody serves on the same side. So you don't have to adjust to the sun during the match. And that's not typical of USTA matches, and so most players who have were coming into that league on an on a new basis struggled a little bit because the rules were different for the tiebreakers.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

But it makes sense now uh in terms of the Coleman situation as to why they're serving on the same side, right? Okay, right. All right, very good. Um, okay, so transitioning over to setting team goals. And when I say that, I guess the question is: do you recommend setting team goals with the team? So some specifics would be uh, is this a team just for fun? Or is this a team that is set up for winning the division and more competitive? And do you ever communicate that prior to the season?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

No, okay. Okay. It's interesting because for me and what I found dealing with the ladies in the league is you want to be encouraging, but you don't want to put too much pressure.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

Now there are exceptions to that. I had a couple of players on my team where I could go up to them and I could say, You need to win today. We need you to do your job.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Not many players I would ever say that to.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Most players I just said, here we go, good, you know, good day for a good day of tennis, and you know, let them go play. Um, because some people don't perform well under the pressure. Um, and you know, at the end of the day, we all have things that we bring to the tennis court, and some days, you know, you can let them go, and some days you can't. So I just I just let people play. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Unless you know the players and you can have the competitive competition with them, yeah. That discussion, I should say. Yeah. Love it. Okay. Um, so in terms of the goals, you just really I think is it safe to say by knowing your players, that's a way that you can set some team goals if you need to. But your experience has been a lot of people don't do well under pressure, so just wish them the best and be positive. That's sort of your mantra. Exactly. Okay, exactly. Okay. Talk to me about your thoughts around partnering, tennis partnering.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Well, um, it's an interesting subject because you you love it when two people come and say, We're partners, we've been partners, we don't want to be separated, we're gonna play together. And I would say, Okay, that's your choice. Okay. And sometimes you go, I don't know if it was a good choice, but okay, it's your choice, and let them do that. Okay. Um what we often ran into was we're all busy women, and a lot of us are you know traveling and have other obligations. And so there was often the case where either the regular partner wasn't available or the regular partner was injured, and so then all of a sudden you had to, you know, plug and play put put a puzzle together. So what I used to do as a captain was I had a couple of utility players that I would just plug in, including myself. So when the partners weren't available, you know, you just put somebody else in there that and and that seemed seemed to work really well. And sometimes we just put people together based on, okay, I like she liked backhand, she likes forehand, um, she's got good wheels, she doesn't maybe have so good wheels. So, you know, you just do that kind of you know thinking and strategy to try and put people together. And sometimes, you know, you watch a couple of girls playing together and you're like, wow, this is a great team. And I would tell them, you guys played really well together, you need to stick together. You you you're good, and then other times I would say, I'm not doing that again.

unknown 11:21

Big mistake.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Okay, so that transitions to the question. Uh what happens? I I think what what they're referred to is a grenade. A grenade could be defined as the player that no one wants to play with. How do you handle that graciously, as I know you always do in league play?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

I didn't play them together.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

I didn't have a conversation about it. I just didn't put people together that didn't want to play together.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

And if there was one person who said, I don't want to play with so and so, so and so never heard from me that she didn't want to play with them. I just didn't put them together.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Okay, okay, got it. Okay. Excellent. Anything else about partnering that you would help a potential team captain that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

You know, this is really not about captaining, but early in my tennis career, I had a friend who became my doubles partner. And I loved playing with her. And that's probably the only time I've ever had that luxury. We just really connected all the time. And I've had a lot of different doubles partners, and many I love playing with, but I can't say always, you know, sometimes it's a struggle. But this gal, she and I just were like, so that's that's such a luxury. Two pieces of the pod. Yeah, such a luxury when you when you can find that.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

I think I consider it the unicorn, and I think it's a really hard thing to find a person that you can play with that well. I agree. Excellent. Okay, good info. Communication. So I was gonna talk about, you know, after the team plays, do you send out a summary? And if so, what do you include or not include in that type of communication?

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Um, I did send out a summary. Um, typically I send a summary with the next week's lineup, and I did not get into, you know, so-and-so and so-and-so won 6-3, 6-3, or so-and-so and so-and-so lost, you know, oh and oh. Because number one, it takes a lot of time, and I don't have a lot of time, and and I just didn't want people to think, oh man, I'm always like the loser. Um, so it just seemed easier just to say, you know, we had a good match, tough time, score was this, we lost this week, but you know, we're on to the next.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

And just leave it, you know, general 10,000 foot level as opposed to getting into the weeds.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Okay, okay, that's great information. Excellent. Um, and this is sort of a technical question, and please defer if you'd like to, but it's talking about using Google Docs to communicate the team schedule, capture availability, um, if there's somebody that's going to be out. What do you, what's your best practices around that, getting that schedule together?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Um, it was the old-fashioned way, and I have have been so um admiring of the captain who took over for me because she uses Google Docs. And I'm like, gosh, why didn't I ever think of trying to do that? That makes so much sense because I literally would have a spreadsheet of people's availability during the season. I would ask them to tell me when they were gone. Um the fortunately, the league software did have a function where I could send out the the lineup and people could say yes or no.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

So I would do that just to the lineup the you know the week before and then send the whole lineup once we had a draft lineup prepared. So that part was a little bit easier, but um the Google Docs is a is a must, I think, for captaining today.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, I know that she was doing that. I was on that team, it was really cool. Yeah, also what she did was she did two backups. So she would send the lineup with two people that are available in case even though you said you can play, you can't. So I thought that was kind of a neat best practice as well. You probably saw that as well. Anything else around communication?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

I think communicating uh and being, you know, cheering squad on the sidelines is helpful. Um, you know, if you if you're there, um, because I think it, you know, everybody is encouraged when somebody's yelling for you to to do well and helps you step up a little bit. So exactly. I always try to do that.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Okay, excellent. And then um, speaking of cheering, making it fun, um, you know, with regard to the team name, the uniform, the party, any little nuggets you can share with us. I always had a fun time on your team. Um, and I still have my keychain that you gave the team. I thought that was kind of neat. And my towel. Yeah. So any thoughts around around that?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Well, I think it's anything that you can do to to bond the group together is a good thing. And so having a little social around Robin tennis, uh social at the end of the season. Um, I always like to give little gifts because I appreciate everybody being there for me and playing their best tennis. So all those things I think create that positive energy that people want to be gone, they want to belong to the team. You know, they think they feel valued and um they make friends and they make memories and makes it more fun.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Lifetime connections. Yes. Met some amazing people through through the tennis. Okay, excellent. And then you mentioned a round robin, you recommend a round robin. Um, injuries. I hate to go down the dark hole, but what happens if someone's injured? Any thoughts around that? Do you have ice with you? What what do you do in that instance?

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yes, we all we are required to have water and ice. Okay. Fortunately, our club where we play uh has an ice uh maker, so we have ice on site. I did often bring uh a zip log bag of ice uh with me on the court if it was a hot day, more likely than you know, if it's an injury, you can run up and get ice from the the uh cooler. But when it was a very hot day, people seemed to really like to have ice, like right now. You know, I need it in my drink right now. Um I really didn't have too many people get injured during the matches. It was more, yes, more social match that they got injured and then they couldn't play league. So um I I felt fortunate in that respect because that's a scary thing. It is, it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I've been stung by a bee on the court, and that's nothing compared to a major injury, but it still hurts. It's still embarrassing too. Okay, um, and I thought we would end today just with regard to what I heard in your bio about you and Hank traveling the world and seeing tennis tournaments all over the world. And can you give us a little snippet of where someone would start with that? What are your favorite global tournaments that you guys had a chance to attend?

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Our first global tournament was Wimbledon. Wow. And it was many years ago now, and we couldn't stand it. It was so exciting. I I just remember just standing at at the door and looking at the Wimbledon logo with the flowers, just being awestruck. And I think that probably is my favorite tournament still today, even though we've been, you know, to many, many tournaments. The US Open we meant went for many years. Um, we've been to Rolangueros, we've not been to the the Australian, but now we've kind of gotten into this thing where we're going to these smaller tournaments in different parts of the world, and we're really enjoying that. But the other thing that has been really fun is going to challenger tennis tournaments, which are the lower level where kids are trying to move up, get points, and following college tennis because these are the future tennis players. And I have a great story if if we have time. Yes. Um Ohio is uh where the Pac-12 plays their their uh championship tennis match, and it's a beautiful venue, very much like Wimbledon. But oh, probably um four years ago, maybe we were there and we were watching a young man named Lerner T.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Oh wow, and he it was the only semester he played tennis, and then he went pro because he was that good. And we sat with him. What college did he play for?

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:35

He played for USC. Okay. And his parents were there, and we didn't know them, but we happened to be sitting next to them, and so we got to know his family and hear their stories, and we sat next to them for two or three days, and um so we started following him because we felt like we had a connection to him, and now, of course, he's in the top 25. Yes, amazing athlete, such a smart young man. So, those are the kind of stories that you know we really enjoy following and seeing the up-and-comers, and uh that's what makes tennis fun for us.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

I love it, I love it. Great information, yeah. Um, so with that, to kind of wrap up, um are there a couple of things that a new or an experienced team captain can do right away to kind of hit the ground running without day drinking that you uh that you recommend after our discussion today?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Well, I think really what you have to do to be a good captain is learn about your players. Try and figure out, you know, if they have regular partners, if they have a side they like, um, if they're a net player or not so much a net player, if they have wheels or not, because that helps you. to begin to formulate your team. And that's really where the rubber meets the you know the road. Know your players. Yeah. Great information. Thank you, Yvonne. My pleasure. Thank you.