Can We Trust the Bible? | Part 1: The Case for Divine Inspiration

Can We Trust the Bible? | Part 1: The Case for Divine Inspiration

Can the Bible really be trusted? Or is it simply an ancient book written by men, altered over centuries, and filled with myths and contradictions?

In this first episode of our two-part series, the Echoing Truth Podcast explores the strongest cumulative case for the Bible's authenticity and divine inspiration. Rather than relying on blind faith or tradition, we examine historical evidence, fulfilled prophecy, archaeology, manuscript preservation, and the testimony of Jesus Christ to answer one of the most important questions anyone can ask:

Can we trust the Bible?

Throughout this episode we discuss:

✔ Why Jesus Christ is the ultimate authority on Scripture
 ✔ The historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus
 ✔ Fulfilled Messianic prophecy unlike any other religious text
 ✔ Why the Bible's manuscript evidence is unmatched in ancient history
 ✔ Archaeological discoveries that continue to confirm biblical history
 ✔ The remarkable unity of Scripture across 1,500 years, 40+ authors, and 66 books
 ✔ The internal evidence pointing to divine inspiration
 ✔ Why Christianity is rooted in history—not mythology

Whether you're a believer seeking confidence in your faith or someone honestly investigating Christianity, this episode offers thoughtful discussion and evidence that deserves serious consideration.

"Scripture cannot be broken." — John 10:35

If this conversation encouraged you, please consider Like • Subscribe • Share and join us as we continue to echo timeless biblical truth into today's culture.

Next Episode:
📖 Part 2: Answering the Toughest Objections to the Bible

About Echoing Truth

Echoing Truth exists to recover and re-echo the timeless truths of Scripture through faithful exposition, warm discipleship, and thoughtful engagement with today's culture.

⏰ Chapters

00:00 Introduction
02:15 Why This Question Matters
07:45 Jesus and the Authority of Scripture
18:30 The Historical Evidence for the Resurrection
33:20 Fulfilled Biblical Prophecy
48:10 Manuscript Evidence
58:45 Archaeology and the Bible
1:08:15 The Unity of Scripture
1:16:40 Internal Evidence for Divine Inspiration
1:24:30 Final Thoughts

About the Podcast

Echoing Truth is a Christian theology podcast devoted to rediscovering the unchanging truth of God’s Word and applying it to our modern world.

Hosted by Todd Demoff alongside his wife Amy and a close friend seeking to understand faith within today’s cultural landscape, the show combines biblical teaching, theological reflection, and thoughtful conversation.

Truth doesn’t need to be reinvented.
 It needs to be echoed.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

In an age of uncertainty and spiritual noise, there is still a firm foundation. God's word is steady, his truth is sufficient. This is Echoing Truth. Anchored in Scripture, engaged with culture, helping you stand firm in faith. Okay, well, welcome to uh Echoing Truth. Today we're gonna be talking about a big topic. Why should someone distrust the Bible when the evidence overwhelmingly supports it?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

I mean, that's a big question as we go into this. And I know the last couple weeks we've been talking about the reality of God, who he is. And I think it's been significant. I don't know if we've exhausted every thought or channel, but I feel like there was so much information presented in that. And so we wanted to move forward and talk about this idea, the reality, the truth of the Bible. And um I I think there's a powerful frame that that is is put together here. When people say they don't trust the Bible, um, are they rejecting the evidence or you know, for the Bible, are they rejecting what they've heard about the Bible or maybe even some of the things they've experienced? Yeah, an emotional yeah, yeah, you know, that sometimes can go wrong, right? And I think that that's a big question or a big thought for us to kind of tackle, at least for me, it has been as we've been preparing for this. Uh are they really seeing the evidence and hearing it and absorbing it and is it reaching the mind? Or when it comes to these discussions about the Bible with the everyday person, the the God rejector, are they just speaking from emotion? Or someone chatted or someone said something and they truly believe that. So we want to parse through that information and hopefully this podcast will reach those who are actually contemplating this. But there's a lot of objections um as we're talking about this topic to the Bible. There are historical objections that I think you hear quite a bit. Was it preserved accurately? I've heard that quite a bit. You know, how is it possible the Bible could have lasted through all these, you know, decades, centuries, millennium?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Um you can say that about any other document that we we like Plato and all those other guys. Why are we accepting that?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Right. In fact, we'll see that it's far more proven than that. And I think so there's historical objections. Is is it historically historically reliable? Uh, we've seen that. But then there's the intellectual objections, right? The are there contradictions in the Bible? And what would we do with that? And so there are some people who just literally they heard that and they just believe it. Um, and so we want to tackle that science. How does science play in this? Um, or the miracles. I mean, I've heard people say, you know, the Bible is the fact that it claims to be so supernatural and all these crazy miracles taking place. I just can't intellectually buy into that. So, and then there's the personal objections I think that you see. Um, and again, these can sometimes be very deep and emotional. Uh, the church hurt me. Yeah, uh, therefore I've decided I don't want anything to do with the Bible. That's a that's a big thing, which and goes along with that hypocrisy. I've seen too much hypocrisy in the church, and therefore I just no thank you, you know, when it comes to the Bible. Um, or or even bigger, and maybe this is true today, cultural disagreements. Yeah. Um big one. I just can't embrace that, therefore, you know, the Bible. But really, none of that has anything to do with the true evidence of, you know, is the Bible true? Yeah, is everything in it true? And so we want to get to that. And I think in our world today, I think, and I and I thought about this as I was preparing. There's this fierce desire in man to have their wisdom, their footprint, their impression on the world today, on the whole human experience. And I think that that has led to so much deception. Um, this need for man to somehow be the final say, or for our word, or for our thought, or for our thinking, to somehow play a bigger role in the outcome of the human experience. And in doing so, has kind of forced these objections and set the Bible aside because man wants, it's our will is to kind of achieve that kind of power and influence. And I think that that is uh affecting the landscape when it comes to people's belief in the Bible. Um, but for this podcast today, we're gonna examine some of the strongest arguments for the Bible that we could put together. I'm sure again, there's an exhaustive we'll tackle what we can tackle. Um, and then next podcast, we're gonna talk a little bit different, maybe it'll overlap a little bit, but it'll be the uh common attacks against the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

And we'll go through quite a few of them. We already started looking at them. Yep. And uh try to pull those apart a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

You'll support this first uh session.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I think so. Yeah. So why is this topic important? Um, you know, I think it is the foundation to Christianity. Um, I think, you know, when it comes to defending the Bible, apologetics as a whole, where are we as Christians if we don't have that source of truth? And I think we have to be unwilling to relinquish it. And I don't know if uh, you know, when you start examining the so-called scholars in the biblical world, uh, they're so willing to just let go of passage after passage, denied thing after thing. And that's unfortunate because for us it is our foundation. And when we talked about last several podcasts about the reality of God, we had to bring scripture into it because it's our source of truth. Um, and so for this purpose, I think this topic is so critical. Um, because what do we have to say if we can't have that firm belief that the Bible is true and everything that we believe is? The Bible is God's word, um, and this is essential instruction to us. So that's why we're doing this. But let's start with the strongest arguments, and I'll kind of tackle a few in a row, and then you can tackle a bunch. Um, and we'll just kind of go back and forth because there's some really good stuff here. Um, I think really good truths, but I want to start with the strongest arguments first because and maybe these aren't what people think they're gonna be. Um, but the first one I have is the person of Jesus Christ. And maybe many people might be surprised by that when you're talking about the Bible, but I I think this is so important for us to stop and mention because everything ultimately rises and falls on Christ. Um, the Bible's validity is tied to the reality of who Jesus Christ was, who he is, yep, what he did, the things you know, walking on on earth himself. But uh we'll go through this. If Jesus um existed, and we know he did, yep, if he existed, that's that's uh you know, we have to embrace this idea that Jesus walked the earth, that he truly existed on the earth, and and you can't deny that. What I just think when you look at the Bible and you come to this realization that in historical in the historical realm, Jesus Christ is true, that you cannot deny the fact that he existed.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yep, even outside of the Bible, the Bible it's talking about.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Inside, outside, you know, other religions, other religions, you know, and I think that that's important. John MacArthur also often emphasizes this Christianity is rooted um in history. Can't lop off history when you're debating the validity of the Bible or Christianity as a whole. And today, the overwhelming majority of historians, and I think this is important for us to note, including many who reject Christianity, agree that Jesus was real, that he walked the earth. And I think that that's significant because not everyone knows that. I I mean, maybe some people won't even think that that's true, but Bart Ehrman, uh, he is one of those secular biblical scholars that I was mentioning. He wrote this. He certainly existed, he said. Um, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees. Yeah. And this is one after another. That's that's a significant concession by him because he's also one who denies a lot of truth about Christianity and things from the Bible, but he can't deny the validity of the truth that Jesus Christ truly existed on this earth.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

And and once you get to that truth that he existed, you have to wrestle with everything else, right? So, oh geez, well, I didn't think he was real, but now I have proof that he was real. Yeah. How does your mind say, I still am not going to believe anything else?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, and and I think it's important to know that these secular scholars, and there's so many of them, they're in all of our universities. I mean, they're teaching classes. Many of them are responsible for the the the thinking that's going on in the world today with so many um of our young kids, um, because they communicate so much confusion, but they cannot deny the person of Jesus Christ. Many of them will not, um, because he's so proven. And I think this is an important point. The existence of Jesus is not defended only by Christians. That the thing that we're talking about when we talk about the existence of Jesus Christ himself, the truth of him, that it's accepted across most historians uh throughout whatever study uh you're looking at. And I think that that's significant. In fact, most other religions even embrace this um Islam, Buddhism, uh Judaism, the Baha'i faith, um Sikhism, which we're starting to hear more and more about because of all the that's happening in our world today. And and they themselves acknowledge the person of Jesus Christ being real. Yeah, I think that that's significant, right? Um, how do you think that that I mean, does that strike you as a unique thought when it comes to validating the Bible?

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Yeah. Well, because uh like we had just said, Jesus is the cornerstone for our faith. And not not only is he in the Bible, but he's in other parts of documentation, historical documentation, other religions. And and we have to note that some of these religions don't see him as who he is, but the fact that they say he existed as something, that he was either a good man, a good prophet, uh, a miracle worker, but wasn't the son of God. Okay, so now you have to wrestle with who got it wrong. Yeah, right? Where where is it wrong? Because you have evidence of this person, and there's one source of truth. So which one is it? And and and so I think it's really good that we're putting all this together because somebody who's on the fence, or maybe even the non-believer, um logically you've got to wrestle with that. I mean, yeah, sure, you can uh very easily take the take the easy path and just say, I don't believe I he's still a fairy tale. Okay, well, there's there's evidence that you have to wrestle with. And if someone were to ask you about that, what is what is your response? Oh, I just don't care, or I just don't believe. It's not a valid argument, right? So um, yeah, I'm I'm with you. And and I I think that's powerful that um it is elsewhere, not just in the Bible, because I I didn't know that probably early 20s, late 20s, early in my faith. I didn't realize that he was mentioned anywhere else.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah, because it's not commonly spoken about. Yeah, let's take a real quick break. All right, well, we're back. Um, we're actually experiencing a really warm summer.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

And it's quite hot in the studios today. So we kind of fix that. But let's get back to where we were because I think we were highlighting a really key point, and we'll just kind of move on because um, in accord, like relation to what you were just speaking about, um, we have these historians. And again, to your point, I think very few people talk about this or even know this that there are non-Christians at the time. This was a Jewish historian, Josephus, who wrote between 80, 93, and 94, right? I mean, forever ago during this time. He would have been writing during the time there were witnesses, yeah, eyewitnesses to everything that took place.

SPEAKER_02 12:43

And Christianity is exploding at that point.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, exploding. People talking about this everywhere. I think people forget that the domino effect of people who literally with their own eyes witness Jesus Christ and what took place, all these things that we see in the Bible. And Josephus is one of these historians that documents what kind of took place, but he mentioned that Jesus was a wise man, which is a common idea uh among those who are aren't of the faith. Yep. Um, that he did or performed remarkable deeds. Yeah, you know, that's recorded. So people who go, ah, these miracles, what is that all about? He obviously did deeds recorded by Josephus, crucified under Pontius Pilate. Again, lines up biblically. Yeah, I mean, he's also identifying a common figure of the day, yep. Um, and had followers who continued after his death. I mean, you put all this together, it's it's amazing when you think about that. Uh, and then there was another one, I believe it's Tacitus or Tacitus, I've heard it both ways, and he was a Roman historian, AD 116. Um, and he also records that um Christ was executed under Pontius Pilate, again, validating these points um during the reign of Tiberius, again, connecting these two historical figures, which I love, I think so significant. Um, and that Christians spread rapidly despite all the persecution that was taking place, again, validating not just the person of Jesus Christ, but the Bible itself and what was recorded.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

And he didn't even like Christians, right? So I mean he he he could have very easily uh twisted this in any way. Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah and I think that's significant uh because how many how many efforts have been made over all these years to attack the Bible and dismantle the truth and still um it does nothing but validate it. So so here you know you have this explosion of Christianity. Um, the disciples willing to suffer, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Yeah, if it was a lie, they they continue to lie.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Yeah, right. I think that that's exceptional. And we'll deal with some of these other things. I think you know, embarrassing details that were recorded. But Jesus, let's get back to this person of who Jesus is. We know that he existed. There's so much recorded about who he was historically. Um, and claimed divine authority. Yeah, uh, I think again, significant. John 8, 58. Uh, before Abraham was, I am. Not just I was, I am. He puts it in the uh the the present tense. Yeah. Um, and I think that that's amazing. John 10 30. I am, I and the Father are one, it says. Yeah. Or he says uh that's significant. Mark 2, 5 through 12, Jesus forgives sins. Um again, you see the person of Jesus Christ, the uh doing these amazing things, tells the paralytic son, your sins are forgiven, yeah, acting as God Himself.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

So and all all those things landed him in hot water with the Pharisees. Yes, because they're like, You you can't be. This is this is blasphemy.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Yes, yep. But claim divine auth authority, yeah. And I think again, significant, not just a historical figure, but what he did, what he said was I am God. Yeah, you know, I am who I say I am, you know, and did the deeds. Um, I think we'll discuss this further, but rose from the dead. This person of Jesus Christ rose from the dead. And I I don't want to get into this one because we it's kind of my next point, but he affirmed the old testament. Again, while he was here, this this was really important. Matthew 5, 17 through 18 says every letter is authoritative. So the person of Jesus Christ, a historical figure seen throughout the Bible, the Bible's about this story of redemption, yeah, is a true, actual, historical figure without any doubt. Uh, I think that that's important. I mean, I I think when it comes to asking ourselves, um, is the Bible truly God's word? I think you have to grapple with this. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Well, he he and Christ didn't come and say, Well, I'm correcting these things that were said wrong of the Bible. And he's only referencing the Bible, he's not saying, Well, this other book. Yeah, right. Right. So he's referencing his his own word, his own belief, set of beliefs. And and that also if you you have to put yourself in his shoes and and start thinking through this. This all makes sense. If it if it didn't make sense, he would be referencing stuff that people were like, where in that where did he get that from? Right. And what book is that out of? And everything stays relevant. God is smart in his structure, and so yeah, I I think that's powerful how he said, I'm I'm I'm not here to change the old testament, I'm here to fulfill it. Yeah. In in which we're gonna get into is something things that were written thousands of years ago, which is just and and he says, I did not come to abolish this.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yep. So he affirms the old testament, but he also promised the new testament, and there's so many scriptures here I couldn't even I it would be impossible to read them all. But there was the promise of the Holy Spirit that is going to teach and allow the apostle, the apostles, to properly record everything that he said and did. And that's exactly what happened. So he affirms the New Testament for the church, this person of Jesus Christ. And I think that that is a significant truth when it comes to understanding the validity of the Bible and the arguments that are happening today for those who want to question it, um, that you cannot question the person of Jesus Christ, that he was a true historical figure. Attack him, maybe. Yeah, attack what what is being said is true about him, and hopefully you can come up with some arguments. But there is so much truth and so much accuracy to who he was as recorded in the in in the Bible. And I think that that is absolutely significant. But why does this matter? Obviously, scripture cannot be broken. I mean, there's the truth there that what it spoke about Jesus was true and accurate. Um, he treated Adam as real. This is as you look back in scripture, Eve as real, Noah as real, Jonah as real, Moses as real. And why do I say that? Because that those some of those figures are being questioned today. Oh, there really wasn't a flood. Yeah. Um, these are fictional ideas. He treated them as real. Yep. And therefore affirming the validity of the Bible and what it had to say. Um, I think that that is so critical. It is. Um, and I know John MacArthur's always is a mentor of mine as, and I know he he passed this year, last year. Wow. Yeah. Already happening so fast. Um, but he said we believe the Bible because we believe Christ. And that's why it's essential in this argument. We believe the Bible because we believe Christ, and Christ believed the scriptures. Right. And I hold dear to that, I hold on to that. And I think whenever we're having a discussion about the Bible and its validity and how true is it, and can we trust it? You have to talk about the person of Jesus Christ, the central figure of our redemption. So let's move to the second thought um in this argument, the resurrection. Um, I think this is the central historical argument when it comes to the Bible. Thinking minds uh can't just pack a historical event in a book, right? You can't just be like, uh, this thing that took place, let's just stick it in this book and slide it aside. Uh the resurrection, again, witnessed by so many people that it's an undeniable fact. It's being denied, but it I I believe it would be um you have to you have to leave your mind, in my opinion, and and good judgment and common sense um, even from a historical argument perspective. But first Corinthians 15, 17, and if Christ had has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. I mean, just emphasizing the importance of the resurrection.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Yeah. Our faith means nothing if if none of it happened. Correct.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Which is, I think is what uh Corinthians is emphasizing here. But Christianity uniquely stakes everything on this historical event. I think that's why when Easter comes around, we try to push away all these ideas of modern celebrations and get to the cross um and get to the work of of of Christ and the resurrection that really everything hinges on as a believer. But let's look at the evidence, right? There's the empty tomb. Uh again, all this recorded in the Bible, right? Um, but as we go through it, you see it's also recorded in the minds and the eyes and the witnesses who were there, uh, that you can't deny. All four gospels, by the way, record uh that the tomb was found empty on the third day.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

And and think of the the opposite of that. If Christ were in a tomb today, do you know how powerful that location would be? People, people all over the world would be wanting to come see it.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

But there's not. There's not. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

So and never was. Yeah. And I think that that's significant too. Um and I again we could talk a lot about the the resurrection in the empty tomb because we know that there were Roman guards, and we so much study has done that those men were not allowed to leave um their position. Oh, yeah, to point death. Yeah, yep. I don't think any of us are willing to do that for some man or some um idea to fake a bunch of people out. So um, but this empty tomb was significant. Instead, they claim the disciples stole it. We hear that, um, which is an indirect admission that the tomb was still empty, which I think is really important to highlight when you talk about the empty tomb. That really the whole argument uh was he's gone. It's empty. That's without a doubt, right? But let's come up with some other reasons why it's empty. So they of course begin to accuse the disciples, and there's so many reasons why that's um been debunked. But there were obviously multiple eyewitnesses. Yep. Peter, the 12 disciples, more than 500 people at one time. These are all witnesses of Christ after the resurrection. Again, historically documented in scripture, which, as we say, is one of the most proven pieces of literature of all time. James, all the apostles, and Paul himself witnessed uh Christ after his resurrection.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, so it's not like just a handful of people. It's not we didn't have a bunch of heretics that were like following Jesus because they were brainwashed. These are probably you know more than 500 people at one time. I'm sure there's a lot of people in there that were even skeptics of him. Absolutely. So it's not like it's not like we're we're saying, well, it was only the Christians that saw him. There were multiple people from all different walks of life.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah, and think about the effect of 500 people witnessing this and then talking to other people and then talking to other people. Uh, how much influence that had uh in that time. And then it quite that makes sense why the church exploded. Yeah. Uh there was so much, you know, direct connection to what Jesus accomplished. The transformation of disciples, I think, is a significant point to bring out when it comes to uh the resurrection and and the evidence that lingers is these disciples, regular dudes, right? I mean, just average people. Some of them deep in sin. Yeah. Yeah. Still, as Christ walked with them, they couldn't get over themselves, right? Yeah. And which is the point. Before resurrection, they were people who fled. Peter denied Jesus three times. Yeah. Uh and he walked with him and he listened to him, and yet they, you know, dealt with this. They hid behind locked doors in fear. But of course, after the resurrection, you see this dramatic change in their lives. Uh, Jesus, of course, he he told them to wait. And then, of course, the spirit descended, as recorded in Acts, and this boldness broke out among those who were witnesses. And the church was born. I mean, again, a historical event, uh, undeniable in so many ways, because uh of how it's recorded. And they boldly begin to preach Christ. Yeah, that's what they preached. Yep. The the now think about that. You and I, we think about our lives. We don't want to be, you know, put in harm's way or have the authorities chasing us. But here they begin to preach Christ, who the authorities just crucified. You talk about boldness, you talk about throwing it all in the line and saying, This is so real to me, this is so significant that I'm throwing it all in the line. I don't care where it ends. If it ends me dying, which in most cases happen, then so be it. But this is what it's about.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Yeah, and I think that's an important thing to think through. Put yourself in their shoes. Yeah, they stuck with this truth, even being crucified, even knowing that they were going to be crucified. Some of them crucified upside down, caught on fire. I mean crazy. And and they're singing hymns while they're being burned alive. You can't, if you put yourself in their shoes, you can't say that that was a fairy tale. You can't say that um, you know, I've heard people say, well, Jesus was um, you know, some dictator. Yeah. Okay, but dictators don't brainwash people to the point where they're gonna stick with the truth even through horrific death.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah. And again, as we mentioned above, these historians reference the persecution of these believers. I mean, it was a uh they probably mocked and made fun of, but it it made an impact on the culture. Right. These Christ followers um who were willing to literally die, and they might have humiliated them in doing so, but their faith obviously made an impact on the culture. Absolutely. Uh, again, to me, a bold proclamation of the evidence. Um, they endured imprisonments and beatings and persecutions, and many, uh, as we mentioned, martyrdom. Then, of course, there's the conversion of Paul, and it's significant because Paul was this fierce uh opponent of Christians. And he was actively, if you don't know Paul, he was going after them. I mean, he was going from town to town, rounding them up and killing them. Yeah, this is who Paul was, and um, and of course, Jesus reveals himself to him, life change, opened, you know, actually blinded him, right? And then uh uh opened his eyes, and and Paul completely gives his life to the pursuit of how this happened, somebody who you know hates that that would be like Adolf Hitler changing midstream in front of the known world, right? It's wild. And and to know that that would have something that dramatic would have taken so many back as eyewitnesses to something that historic, which of course I'm happened here with the books about it, there'd be there'd be so much talk and chatter about something like that. Yeah, absolutely and you know that happened. Um, we see what's recorded, but you know, not everything's recorded. His his name was probably well established. In fact, they feared him because they they doubted that he was really changed, so they were skeptical to even let them know where they were, let them in their home. Um, but this is the kind of transformation of the resurrection, that's proof of the resurrection. Um and he never went back, never went back.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

So he changed and it was a permanent to the point of death. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah, threw his whole life away after having probably so much influence. Um the conversion of James, which I'm not gonna get into. Um, the explosive growth of Christianity, again, proof of the resurrection. This would never have happened without that. And not by the sword, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:31

So many religions exploded through violence, through takeovers, violent takeovers, uh war. Excellent point. This was not done that way.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

No, in fact, the opposite under the threat of death, yeah, vicious death. Not not we're gonna just imprison you, we're probably gonna burn you. Yeah. Uh, which to me is one of those I don't want to ever die that way. Yeah, um, for sure. I would for Christ, but I don't want to die that way. But yeah, and and this is within weeks, mind you. Thousands believe churches spread throughout the Roman Empire within weeks, yeah. And you talk about the evidence of the resurrection, this would not have happened historically, recorded in scripture, seen by historians of the time, uh, it would never have happened if the person of Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead, yeah, that he didn't do exactly what he said he was going to do.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Yeah, because they didn't even understand at first. Remember, he was saying that I'm gonna be I'm gonna be put to death. They didn't understand it. They thought he was speaking in parables again.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because the truth is, not to get Syroyal, but they thought Jesus was coming to overthrow Rome. Yeah. And they would now become in control and have this grand nation. Um, he did the absolute opposite. He came in what was like poverty and humility and taught and ultimately um gave his life. So good teacher uh podcast. Oh, yeah, that's absolutely. But this growth, right? By the end of the first century, Christianity had spread across much of the Mediterranean world, um, which I think is so powerful. Nobody has ever produced the body of Jesus, right? You can say that about every other leader, um, but the tomb remains empty, and I think that's significant. Next one fulfilled prophecy. When you talk about the top arguments when it comes to the validity of the Bible, this is perhaps the most supernatural evidence, right? Um, but it's worthy to point out, not but many people, uh, if you're kind of searching spiritual truths, Christianity, even you stumble too much onto prophecy. But the Bible predicts events centuries before they occur. Yeah, and how can we not point this out? Because I mean, there's so much that elevates the Bible to become the most important book of all time. Um, examples, Isaiah 53, written around 700 years before Christ, right? I mean, think about that. 700 years before Christ, and it describes his rejection, his suffering, the piercing that he would under undertake, and the death and the burial um in the rich man's tomb. Yep. Predicts it 700 years before. How do you how does that happen?

SPEAKER_02 31:16

And it I guess we could we could say, well, coincidental, if it was just one of these. If it was just one. But but God is so good that He's He put multiple in there that somebody who's a betting man could look at that and go, the odds are uh one and nothing, right? Infinity. You you can't do that, you can't predict those things.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

And that's a great point as we go through this because some people might say, Well, there was a prediction that came through. Okay, fine. I I don't know what it is. I'll give it to you. That one prediction, I'll even give you that there might be someone who predicted three things, yeah, right. The overwhelming prediction spanning continents, people, yeah, time, not just a year or two, not just a generation, 700 years is absolutely remarkable. Absolutely. Psalm 22, written roughly a thousand years before Christ, describes his crucifixion um before crucifixion was even in existence. Okay, it describes crucifixion. Yep. Um, you have to take this in intellectually, yeah, with reason. You have to let your mind think about this for a while. Doubt it, do some research. Sure, yeah. I mean, it's all open there. Dive into it, seek it out. Psalm 22 contains striking parallels to the crucifixion, mocking from the onlookers, hands and feet pierced, uh, casting lots for his clothing, public humiliation, all described a thousand years before Christ. Um, and then the final turn to victory and proclamation. I think significant. Daniel 9 predicts the timing of the Messiah's arrival. Uh Micah 5, 2 predicts Bethlehem, where he was going to be born. Uh Zechariah 11, 12 through 13 predicts the 30 pieces of silver that were given for his exactly 30. It wasn't 29, right? Right, not close.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

And and not gold. Yeah. Right? Silver. Yeah. Exactly as it happened. Now, why does this matter? I mean, when we talk about the the validity of scripture, no other religious book possesses fulfilled prophecy on this scale.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

You have to process that. No other book. There is no competition.

SPEAKER_02 33:34

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

When in regards to this. Um, and from the perspective of like a MacArthur or an answers in Genesis, it's not merely the number of prophecies, it's the characteristics of them. And I think we have to take this into consideration because we just mentioned the number, right? Yeah. But let's look at the characteristics of them. This is where it gets crazy because it was specific, yeah. Names, places, rulers, events, things that you would never know a thousand years, yeah, 700 years, however many years from the the actual occurrence. Um, historical test uh historically testable, right? Um, they concern events in real history, yep. Right? Not the end times. Not I predict this is gonna be something. I mean, in real history that is now recorded and behind us. Yeah. Um, and it's impossible for human planning when you consider this. For example, the birthplace, the lineage, timing. How would they know that? Yeah, it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Close your mind, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Um, but it's laid out for us his manner of death, um, and then just the cumulative collection of this, the dozens of independent prophecies um that converge in the life of Jesus. Yeah, yeah. I think that's significant.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Yeah, you cannot, and that's that's what I love about how how God did this. He did it with overwhelming evidence that you you can't you can't you can't deny it with a logical mind. You you can be um just difficult, a difficult person. You say, I'm not gonna believe it. Okay, that's fine. You you have free will to say I'm not gonna believe that. Um but for those that really like to dive into the details and the evidence, you have stuff here that you really have to wrestle with. And and if you're if you're an unbeliever, uh you know, I once you say, Okay, there's something here, I I would encourage that person to get down on your hands and knees and yeah, dive in deep and just ask ask Christ to come into your life. Um because that's where it starts, is God's word.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Yeah, and going back to that statement I made in the beginning, is it the evidence or or is it something you heard? Yeah. And I want to, if there's a listener out there that's debating this, think about that for a second. Is it the actual evidence of the Bible? Or or are you running on just someone told me this? This is how I feel. Yeah, I gotta be careful. Or I was hurt, or I just don't think these so-called Christians are good. I mean, look at all the bad press Christianity gets today. Um, and I would encourage someone who really wants to know truth, which is what we're about, yeah, to look at the evidence. Look at the evidence. Yep. Let's go to another tier. Um and these are extremely powerful supporting evidence uh arguments that you can't deny. Um, and this is I love this one. Unity across 1500 years. We've talked about time a little bit. But the Bible was written over 1500 years by 40 plus authors um over three continents and multiple languages. Yeah. But yet tells one unified story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

There's a I think there's um something on uh Instagram or some of the other multimedia items or media platforms where a guy has this timeline and he's linking all of the events back and forth, and it's it's unheard of. There's no way a person even like a Stephen King and you know, I think he rates writes great stories, but there's no way somebody can have that kind of talent and predict those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

No, but and not over this span of time. Yeah. Um that's wild. I don't think people think about that. Yeah. 1500 years, 40 authors, and they tell one story. What's the story? Creation. Yep, the fall of man, the redemption of man, and ultimately the restoration of mankind. Hope, love, this amazing story over 1500 years that it was written by 40 plus authors, all contributing, all saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I I heard that when I was young at some conference I went to. I remember I couldn't get that out of my head. Those were one of the formative truths in my mind as I was growing up. And I processed it. You know, when you get to that age where you can, you know, you I was young, I accepted Christ in my heart when I was young, but you don't you don't process everything. I remember these years where information like this started crossing my path and it became real for me that I began to contemplate that and go, that's unheard of. Like I don't know if my mind can process that, how that happened, except for God, yeah, orchestrating it.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yep. And that's where that's where faith comes in, you know, for the listeners. It's the the evidence is there, and then beyond that, you just you have to have faith. And uh once uh you get saved, you might struggle with a few of these things, but everything else will start to make sense. It's so much easier.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. And I think that's true too. I think you know, at the point where you initially come to that point where you accept Christ as as your Lord and Savior, and you acknowledge um the profound truths of the Bible, there's so much still to uncover and unwrap in your mind and your heart, and that journey is also very exciting and really never-ending. Vody Bachman, um, one of my favorite preachers, uh, said this: I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses, yeah. Uh, reporting supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claim their writings are divine rather than human in origin. Great statement uh of truth and his stance on the Bible.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

And it says during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses, so it's all supporting. It's one person might may have been doing something that was supernatural or or was affected supernatural, and then another person that was witnessing it going, yeah, this happened. They might have a little bit different perspective of how it happened, but they're still saying the same thing of the event that took place.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah, and I don't want to side rail this, but I I want to make a point here. Uh, in today's world, there's a lot of people who claim to experience and see things um that that is not the kind of eyewitness they're referring to. These are direct eyewitnesses to Jesus Christ, the event of the uh resurrection, yeah, the aftergrowth of the church. Like that's what they're referring to. Not I had a vision last night in my sleep, right? And it's so real. And then, you know, two minutes later, that guy's already fallen off the tracks and fallen away from Christ. That's not the same thing. And there's a difference between that, and I think that's important in our world today to highlight when it mentions eyewitnesses. This is these are those who lived and saw it, yep, experienced it, not um, not some idea of a revelation today that I think is is gotten um really messy for the church. Yep. Um, I think this is one of the last things I'm gonna point out, but manuscript preservation, um, there's so many questions about how does the Bible stay true for this long? How is that possible? Yeah, I don't think, and in fact, I've seen it, I just don't have it in front of me. Uh, there was a study done on just history books and the numbers, the statistics of how many history books got it wrong, were recorded wrong, had just errors, galore in them, was astounding. I was shocked by it. I'm like, why even read a history book nowadays? Because the the I'll have to dig that up sometime. Um, I believe it was answers in Genesis that pointed it out, but it was done by a secular study. It wasn't a Christian thing. And um, in comparison to the Bible itself, right?

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Just more support.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

This manuscript that has existed uh from the very inception, from the writing, and been preserved, these are questions that people have and say, I just I just have a hard time believing this is the same word that that was written for us, that God preserved it. Um, the New Testament, over 5,800 Greek manuscripts. Now, this probably doesn't make much sense unless you dive into this and really look at it, because we don't really often talk in manuscripts, right? Or uh, you know, provability of such things, but this is astounding. Yeah, when you look at this in the um academic world, this is astounding. Um, over 25,000 total manuscript witnesses, yeah. So supporting documentation, supporting documentation on top of the 5,800 Greek manuscripts just for the New Testament. Now, you compare that to some of these history, historical or ancient writings like Caesar's Gallic Wars. There's 10 manuscripts. Yep. I mean, that really puts in question what we might have today when you only have 10 manuscripts, right? Um, Tacitus, which we referenced 20 manuscripts. Now he was a historian at the same period, right? And he referenced Christ. And he re referenced, you could argue, probably talk with eyewitnesses, but there's only 20 manuscripts of his writings. Plato, huge, right? Yeah, talk about Plato, seven manuscripts. In school, I had to read through that, right? Now, there's something yeah, we all did, uh, and you wonder why. But um, but seven manuscripts scripts for this uh, you know, this figure who we elevate in culture type, but there's only seven manuscripts. Yeah, nobody questions those works. Yeah, I mean, we're told in school, legit, man, this is histori. You gotta, I mean, this is what he said. There's never a doubt, right? Um, but the Bible is the best attested ancient document in existence. Yeah, and yet it's it remains to be questioned, even among Christians. I and I'm gonna, I must have to say this. I was listening, I think it was John MacArthur, one of his sermons. And he was talking about this um this gathering of scholars. I'm probably gonna butcher, I'm gonna do the best I can, but it is it's it's good to this that they all got together and they wanted to. Analyze scripture and decide what was real and what wasn't, verse by verse. And at the end of the day, they had a marble for yes, maybe, and a black for no, or something like that. Out of all the script, all these scriptures, they had like two passages they said are truly you know legit. That is taking all of this, everything that we're talking about here, and this just shows you the validity of scholars today, shove it aside. And they used man thinking. Wow. And all their reasoning for their decision making was man-made, right? It's just how I felt. I don't think, I'm not sure. Um, that doesn't make sense. Right. So there you have it. Um, this document, one of the most proven, recorded, well maintained um through antiquity.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah. And so some of the other ways that uh we have verified scripture or or these uh manuscripts is archaeological confirmation. The findings that we've uh unearthed, I'll I'll say. Um, so like the Hittites, uh, that was discovered. The lost Hittite Empire confirmed also recorded in scripture. Yep, I know the Hittites. Yep, yeah, and so uh, you know, it was confirmed when uh a German archaeologist Hugo Winkler uh he uncovered thousands of tablets in 1906. And so in 1906, it wasn't it wasn't like a few years, a few years after the resurrection. This was in 1906. We're finding this stuff, and then the pool of uh Bethesda uh was discovered, and and that was uh in John 5, that was referenced. And uh we found that in the late 19th century, and that was by uh Conrad Schick, the House of David inscriptions, the uh Tel Dan or um, yeah, the Tell Dan uh Stell. Uh it's the first extra biblical reference to the house of David that was discovered in '93. Imagine discovering that. Yeah. I mean, so it's these things that you guys you can look up. This is not, you know, I'm not pulling this out of the Bible. This is this is historical stuff that we're finding that archaeologists, our archaeologists are discovering. So uh the Pilates inscription. Um, so the Pilates stone, it was the only contemporary archaeological inscription named uh for Pontius Pilate. That was discovered in 1961. So, guys, you really got to look at this and go, okay, so it is real. What do I do next? You know, and I I'll keep saying this. Get on your hands and knees and start praying. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

And and open and and look at the evidence. Yep. I mean, I you know, looking at this, I thought of the Dead Dead Sea Scrolls, which again, I kind of stumbled across as a kid in my readings and discoveries, and I thought, Dead Sea Scrolls. I'm like, what are these things? But they're discovered in 1947, and here's why it matters before the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest complete Hebrew manuscripts dated to around 81,000, right? The Dead Sea Scrolls included copies of the Old Testament, books dating from approximately 250 BC to 8070, were discovered. One complete scroll of Isaiah was over a thousand years old. Wow. Could you imagine discovering that? Yeah, but the preservation of it, the fact that God Himself, who I I attest is the uh the preserver of his word, kept these pieces. Yeah, some of the most proven pieces over time. When scholars compare them, the test the the text is virtually identical.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Wow. Yeah, some of my some of my uh college uh notes aren't surviving, and that's only been like 15 years.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

And if you do find them, they're torn, something got worn out, you know. Uh the discipline that would have had to gone into well, let's just say this more than the discipline, because a lot of historic documents, these disciplines were applied of preservation, they put in libraries and distinctions. This was far more than that. I mean, this was, I'm gonna say, supernatural, the way that God's people over the the many, many years preserved God's word with a passion, with a purpose to do so.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Like and why is that? Because it was so important, and so real to them, so real, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, uh you know, so there are other things in here, Hezekiah's Tunnel. That's the old testament that was uh discovered in 1838. Um, so there's just a lot of stuff. I mean, we can go on, um, but just a few points. Um, and then there's we we also have philosophical arguments. So uh the Bible explains that reality is better than competing worldviews, and we know that the worldviews we have, especially today, they're all over the board. So, where should you be landing? Well, the Bible has some really solid views, and and the reason they are is because they're written by God, and so Christianity will answer these. So, so like why are we here? We're here for purpose, creation, and meaning. Uh-huh when when you lose that, what does life mean? And I can understand why people who just don't believe in anything, why their lives are so chaotic and they're they're they have anxiety and they have no idea what they should do. You don't have a foundation, yeah, right. So that's what that's what the Bible is uh getting at. And so Genesis uh one, we're created in God's image. Uh Colossians one, we exist through him and for him. Isaiah 43, we're created for God's glory. So this talks about purpose, creation, meaning. That's good. So humans exist to reflect God's image, right? We we were built in his image to glorify him and live in a relationship with him. So really important with uh why we get into or what scripture means to us. What what what purpose does it have? It has all of those things. And so some of the other uh philosophical arguments, I'll I'll try to get through this. I think we're um getting over on time, but uh so why is there evil? I think this is really important. Well, there's evil because we had a fall that the Bible talks about explains, yeah. The the fall of man, sin, rebellion, that that was all part of the fall. Uh Genesis 3, uh the fall introduces sin, death, and corruption, how it changed the world, right? Before we we would fellowship with alligators and lions, and there was no issue there. Uh after sin, yeah, the world changed.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Yeah, you know, and it explains everything, right? I mean, we need to we need to understand that. Why why is there evil in this world? Yep.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

Yeah, because now it's it's fine. You know, sin. Uh Romans three, all have sinned fall short uh of God's glory. Romans five, sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and death through sin. James one, uh evil comes from human desire and rebellion, not from God. So it's it's really the absence of God, right? God is light, the absence of light is darkness. It's not like darkness exists. Yeah, darkness is the absence of light, right? Yeah, yeah. So uh, so evil exists because humanity rejected God, breaking the creation and introducing sin. So uh the next philosophical point, why does morality exist? Well, we have uh a conscience, we have moral law, and we have God's character, they all align. So Romans 2, uh God wrote his moral law in human hearts. So that's the reason why majority of people agree certain scenarios are like, oh, that's wrong. Yeah, that's not right. Yeah, it's because it's written on our hearts, right? And how do we know that? Because it's written on our hearts, exactly. And anything outside of that is it's not something we're thinking of, it's something we feel. And where does that come from?

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Nothing else explains that though, too. You have to keep that in mind. Like we're we're using these as a context for the validity of scripture, but if you get rid of this, what else would explain that? Yeah, exactly. Knowledge or that that understanding that that well, that's not right. Yeah, where would that come from?

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Yeah, and it's I would say this it's a really close to 100% consensus. You especially go to kids that have the innocence, most of them will agree certain things are wrong, stealing's wrong, killing someone's wrong. Yeah, you know. Um, anyways, uh so uh so so Micah six, God reveals what is good and what he requires. Once again, it's it's written inside of us, it's pre-programmed. Psalms 19, God's law defines right and wrong. Wow, that's that's amazing. And so um Genesis 1, God God's goodness is the foundation of morality. So, what I love about how what the Bible does there is it points to God. God is the creator of these things, he wrote these things. We didn't. It wasn't like somebody one day said, Well, this is this is what I say is right and wrong, and within God's word. God told them, yeah, God told them this is what's right and what's wrong. So it comes from a higher being. So morality exists because God is morally perfect, which is why he wrote it and told us what is morally perfect, and he imprinted his law on it onto humanity, right? He didn't he didn't imprint that law into um dogs and cats. It's it's on us because we have a different I'll say uh a different level of thinking, right? That conscience.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

We're in the likeness of God. We were created in his likeness, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 53:15

So you gotta know that. So with animals, I just mentioned so why do humans matter, right? Because we have dignity, we're in the image of God, we have value, right? Not that other things don't have value, but we were created so unique because God created us in his image, we have a higher value than other things. Not that other things aren't important, and so um to support this Genesis um Genesis one, humans bear God's image, Psalm 8. God crowned humanity with glory and honor. This all supports it. Matthew 10, God cares intimately for each person. If he didn't, he wouldn't give us all the resources that we have. I mean, look at all the things that we're capable of doing in this world. We we not only have things that are pretty simple like food, but we have uh stuff, uh minerals that we can put together. I like your analogy, an uh uh a watch, yeah, right? A car. He has given us so much, and that was out of love. Uh John 3 16, God loves humanity enough that he redeemed us. I mean, this is the whole uh story of why humans matter. Because we carry God's image, we're loved, we're valued, we're we were redeemed by him. So um let me skip down a couple more. Uh let's go to this one. So, why do we long for eternity? It's because we have an eternal soul. The Bible talks about that. God is eternal. Um, there's resurrection, that which shows that there is eternality, yeah. Um, and that gives us hope, right? Once again, we we have to have some sort of morality, and that morality gives us hope, right? So it makes us function, I think, properly. Because when we don't have that, we're all messed up. We are yeah, absolutely. Ecclesiastes three, a God place eternity in the human heart. Once again, God's putting these things in us. Second Corinthians five, we long for our eternal home with God. Philippians three, our citizenship is in heaven. Uh John 14, Jesus prepares an eternal place for his people. It's all about the eternal, the eternal afterlife.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

It's so hard because there's so many scriptures you just rip through, right? Yeah, sorry. But the point, no, I I think it's truth is for the thinking mind. Yeah. I I think that is our biggest challenge. This argument that that you just went through, the the because philosophically, right, there's some deep thinking here. You've got to process the world, you've got to start thinking about um your worldview. Yep. I don't know if many people do that today enough, right? We're just running, we're going. Yeah. You broke out here um our purpose, creation, and meaning, why there's sin, why there's rebellion, um, our conscience, yeah, uh, the moral law, God's character written in us, dignity, image of God, and value. I mean, those things are preached today, but they're not in the context of scripture or truth or Christianity or God. They're man-made, but they're being drawn from the truth that has existed um in the mind of the human experience since God brought it to us, right? So it's it's being um ripped apart and and chomped out, yeah, right? But but it comes from scripture. And I think the fact that you you shared all those are proofs how um direct the word of God is in the formation of who we are as a human, as a person, and ultimately how God is guiding us in this plan of redemption. Um, I I I I to me, I I look at this and I think how often do we consider it? Right? I mean, having a biblical worldview gives me peace. Yeah, it gives me hope, um, it gives me direction. Uh, in fact, I think, you know, scripture says the word is a lamp unto your feet. Yeah. Um grounding. Uh we need that. And that's what this is this philosophical understanding that God has unwrapped a worldview for us to follow. And scripture just supports, supports, supports, supports all of it.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

And it and it gets you back on track, right? When you start wandering or you start going down the wrong path, when you have scripture to reference or that you have memorized, yeah, it really keeps you pointed in the right direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Yeah, I I think there's just so much thinking and pondering. And I keep saying it. I don't know why I keep saying it, but I I will say this. I think it's the source of some of our struggles as a as a culture today. Uh, because as we're going through this truth, I realize how much the mind has to be engaged, even the prep, right? For something like this. It's like, okay, I gotta escape the world. I'm in all the routines, my work, my daily life. And I want to concentrate on God's word. It's like sometimes it feels like there's this separation. There shouldn't be, right? And I just hope the skeptic um who's still going, I don't know if the Bible is real or not. I I don't know if I want to wholeheartedly buy into it. I want you to see this because on a grand scale, there's a message to humanity here. It's not um uh what atheists might say is uh, you know, uh what's their whole mantra? Um uh we're just animals. Yeah. Right? We just got to do whatever you want to do to claw your way through life, right? I mean, that's the message they send. Yeah, what a sad ending. Whereas God is giving us this much direction, all this hope. And I wonder sometimes if people could just stop, and I'll agree with this. If you read God's word, that's where real life change takes place.

SPEAKER_02 58:59

But yeah, I agree. So the the the powerful point behind uh to to summarize all that, the biblical worldview makes sense of the world we actually experience. So it it really does ground you when you uh are aware of of scripture, you're reading scripture, you're memorizing it, it really gives you uh the foundation you need and the and the the good firm structure uh to get through with this world. This world's crazy. So um I really encourage people to continue to be in the word. Okay, so uh objective morality requires God. So every skeptic who calls something evil assumes there's some sort of objective morality. So, but without God, there there ultimately is no ultimate good, there's no ultimate evil, there's no objectives for a moral standard, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:48

There's just survival of the fittest, which is what I was looking for.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

Yeah, we're we're like the atheists who say, now we're we are animals, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Right. Take God out of it. Where's the guiding morality? Where's the right and wrong?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

So we've taken a step down. So I I I would almost say that uh for people that should be offensive, right? We're not we're not animals. Absolutely who wants that? Yeah, exactly. We we don't bite.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:10

I mean, really, we should immediately reject it. I can't believe that there are classrooms all around the world right now pushing this idea and people are buying it if they're even listening. Yeah, and I just wonder why. Who wants to buy this idea that you're just an animal and you're just clawing your way? Take what that's like pirates right there, man. Take what you want, you know, leave nothing for anyone else. I mean, who wants that? When I see God's word and I see this consistent message written for uh over the span of a 1500 years by all these authors and it's been prepared, this plan of redemption for my sin. I I I want that. Yeah, naturally want that.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

And it tells us of rewards that we can earn, that we can uh strive for. Because we all know when you die, you don't take anything with you, right? There's nothing that's going with you. So if if if you really look at it objectively, that makes sense. You the only thing you're taking is what you have uh accomplished in the good that you've done. And then there's also judgment on the bad that you've done. I mean, that makes sense. If you can't take anything with you, then what is it? What what are what are you what are you gonna do when you die? So well, you got people that say, Well, you just disappear, just yeah, but that's a growing number.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Yeah, I I do think you know, if you follow that thought, that is an issue. I think that if you ask a lot of people today, it's either I don't know or nowhere. Yeah, you know, things like that, you'll hear that. And I don't know if that was always the case. I think there was a time in our past where people would generally just say, Well, I'm going to heaven. I think it bought heaven, even though they're not living like it. Whereas now there's such a greater sense of hopelessness. Yeah, um, but you also see if we're being honest, in our world today, our culture, there's the rise of religions, even in our own country, Islam, um in radical force. Yeah, um, now they're coming in with their God view, yeah. Um, not the God view, but it's a worldview, and they're they're militant about it, right? So I think it's important this conversation of the Bible is important because I think as a culture, we're coming close to not being able to ignore it. Yep. Uh, we're living in biblical times almost, it feels like sometimes. And I think um my encouragement for anyone watching or anyone I talk to is man, dive into God's word and start looking for the answers to what I think is in your heart questions and and God has the solutions. Yeah, amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:39

I and so the the person that's listening that uh has not converted, uh we understand this this is a lot of information, this is hard, yeah. But once, and we've we mentioned this earlier in the podcast, once you're converted, once you are saved, once you accept Jesus as your savior, things start changing. Yeah, it gets easier. It really does.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:00

That's why I started with Jesus Christ. Yeah, because it is the it's it's that's where it begins. Yeah. When you acknowledge that he is a true historical figure and the Bible records it and it's true, then your journey begins. Yeah, and God's revelation will open your mind and your eyes to the truth.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

So um, a little bit more on the uh objective morality that it requires God. So in Romans 2, uh humans possess moral awareness because they bear God's image, right? So the moment someone says that's wrong, that's unjust, that shouldn't happen. I love this statement. They are appealing to a standard outside of themselves. Because we just said, where do we get that? It's not like we were born. I mean, there are some things like you you have your family standards, you have your cultural standards, but we're we're talking about core foundational issues, stealing, murder, I mean the things that are Ten Commandments, yeah. Those are those, in my opinion, are the core that's written in everyone's heart of what's right and what's wrong. So that's the key. So if morality is just a personal reference, then evil could mean I just don't like it, right? It's just an opinion. Yeah. And injustice means my culture prefers prefers this over that. Well, as a reminder to our listeners, our justice system here is biblically based, Deuteronomy. 100% true. So that we live in a country that has adopted God's rules and the way that justice should be served. Human rights mean we voted on it, right? And and we're starting to get to that now. We're starting to get away from the biblical foundation, what our what our uh country was founded on, to well, we voted, and so now that's that's yeah, that's justice.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:38

Or that's humanistic takeover. Yep. Um I think we're witnessing, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:44

So uh last uh topic, I think that I have. Uh no, I've got uh I've got one more. So information requires intelligence. I love this. We talked about this last time with like DNA and how this how the um uh the stars are structured, how our solar system is structured, the earth, how it's so perfectly formed, the right size, the moon is the right distance. I mean, it goes on and on and on. It's and it's not just one thing, it's multiple things that have to be exact for life to exist. You you can't get that by uh random events. So, anyways, back to information. So Steven Meyer says that uh whenever we see information, real information, it always comes from intelligence, not sometimes, not usually, not always, right? So we you you can't argue that. So if we have uh things that we're discovering that requires thought and it's not made by a person, it has structure. How do you resolve that? Yeah. So that that's why we're we're standing by the Bible. The Bible has uh intelligence, yeah, creation has intelligence, and it's all from God who claims it and he even claims it. Everything was created by me. Everything started with me. So yeah. It describes that intelligent. Yep. And so even answers in Genesis, they point that out information is not matter, it's not energy, it's not chemistry. It's a non-material reality that uses matter, but it is not produced by matter. So atoms don't write code, right? I mean, we were animals don't write their own instructions. They're not figuring things out. I mean, I I love watching birds and watching them build a nest and uh and raise their baby birds in that they just learn to fly. It's not like they're looking for a book or another bird flies over and is talking to them in uh bird bird ease and saying, Well, this is how you fly. Yeah, it's pre-written.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:44

Yeah, and and notice the similarity. Yeah, no matter where you go, they build nests. Yeah, that's similar to the way they build nests everywhere. The intelligence was built in. Exactly. It's not some like, oh, what are you building over here? Um that is unique.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

It is. And so uh chemicals, they don't they don't create their languages, so chemicals have a uh a compound or a structure of how they act and how they react to other chemicals. I mean, it's just stuff is amazing. Natural processes don't generate instructions, but yet there's instructions around natural process, how the weather works, how water flows, how how salt water, the salinity rises and falls along the coastline of uh the fresh water that's going in from the rivers. I mean, it's yeah, it's just it's so big. Um, so information is is conceptual, not physical, which points to an intelligent design which advocates a creator or God. Yeah, you know, so I know I it's something that we struggle with, and it gets so much easier once once you have Christ living in your heart and you've you've converted, it gets so much easier. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

So But all of this, when you talk about this, uh, you know, because it points to intelligence, yeah, it points to the creator, which then sources to scripture in which we learn about this creator. And I think that's important this in this conversation because I know last time we mentioned this, we were talking about the the reality of God, right? But in this in this argument, you're saying that same intelligence that you see descripted out for us or scripted out for us in in the Bible is who God is and what he's prepared for us. All this this design and the creation comes from the creator, which is told to us through scripture, through the Bible. Yeah, I think that's important. It's not uh an individual idea outside of the Bible, it's found from the Bible, giving us instruction and understanding.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

Yeah, yeah, it all yeah, it all flows well. So I I I love this um this little flow chart here. So for people listening, so you have information. Where does that come from? Comes from a mind. Yeah, right? Information doesn't come from nothing, yeah. And that's even true for information that we discover like in science. Where did that come from? It came from a mind, God's mind.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:05

Well, your information there came from a printer, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

Well, and it came from somebody, somebody, yeah, some somewhere, some mind. Yeah, um, code comes from a programmer, yeah, language comes from a speaker, DNA comes from a designer. So I love how it kind of goes from uh from God to a person to uh you know, like code, or I'm sorry, the um language to a speaker. It gives all these different kinds of uh scenarios, but ultimately what it's saying is design has an intelligent creator, a design of something. And we've talked about that in other uh other podcasts, you know, with cars and houses. We look at that, we can say, Oh, that's that such and such builder, or that's a Ford car, whatever. We we we can easily accept that, but you have to do the same thing, you have to use that same logic.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

It's interesting too because when you think about it, we appreciate designs, all these things you're talking about, the watch and our phone and our car and the furniture we enjoy in our home, all these things that are part of our lives or make up our lives for the cynic, for the doubter who wants to reject God and and scripture, wants somehow for their worldview to not uh have that in it. Um, the evidence is simply this that the Bible lays out this instruction for us. We should want that, just like we love all these other things in our lives that have been designed. Um, God explains how that happened. He created you and me and his likeness. We therefore inherit that designer desire. Yep, and we create like God created. And I say this because I I know talking to so many people out there that want to dismiss God and want to find another reality. I know that they appreciate all these things that occupy their life, the the the um the joys of watching a movie at home or the conveniences of things created in our kitchen to make things easier to cook, whatever it might be, all came from intelligence, design, people creating. And I would encourage people to say, you know, we should want that in our worldview too, right? I mean, what has formed everything that we are, where we're going, and and just to look at scripture, it's the only source that describes all of this, yeah, and and how it came to be. And I I I know for me, that's just a truth that I cling to that, you know, this gives me the understanding I need. It gives me the framework of my life to understand the rest of this stuff, yeah, right. Um, that others have created in the likeness of God, you know, because that's what God called us to do. Yeah. So I don't want us to forget that as we're talking about this because there's so much for us to see and understand. Um, I think our world loves the creation process from our artists to engineers, whatever it might be. We thrive creating things. We love, you know, uh changing the look of our home, designing our rooms. We love it. We love food.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

Uh people have gotten really, I mean, there's more foodies today than I've ever seen in my life. I think it comes from the whole TikTok, Instagram. We have access to it. Everyone's a cook, everyone's a chef. And why do they love that? Because they get to create, right? And that comes from thought. That comes from a mind. A mind, right? And so I want people to recognize that that you can't miss that. Even though this sounds really technical, on our everyday life, we soak this up. Everything that we enjoy, everything that we do. I got a new bike. Look at this engineering, it's amazing. I get the bike, I love to bike. I'm a pickleball fan, man. When did they come up with pick? Who invented this game? I love this game, you know, and our whole lives are built around these designs, these ideas. But when it comes to our worldview, we just want to believe in nothing. Yeah. And I find that odd.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:02

It is so well, and it I think this this will be another topic, but it's just it's our sinful nature. Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

Yeah, the desire to deny um well, is our sinful, yeah. We want what we want.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:14

Yep. Yeah, yeah. So my next topic is going a little bit deeper into DNA, so I don't need to touch on that. We taught we talked about that last time. Um, so internal evidence. So Bibles are radically honest. So remember this is this is interesting. Yeah. So remember when you're a kid, the superheroes, like I mean, he-Man movie just came out, and so I remember watching He-Man. It was like, oh wow, he's so strong and powerful, and he's the he's the good guy, and that's who I rooted for. Superman, yeah, that those are the ancient myths, right? They they glorify the heroes. Well, the Bible embarrasses them, yeah, right. And and here's why. Um, because the people of the Bible were not we're not these he-mans. The only one really is Christ, because the things that he did and he endured are are like supernatural, yes, uh heroic. Um, but the Bible has everyday people like you and I. Yeah. Noah gets drunk, right? And and so he planted a vineyard, he's drinking wine, he gets drunk, and and that was an embarrassment, right? But like uh, what I love that God puts these in there because he's showing us that we're all human, we're all the same. We all have to be a good thing. And what man would write that? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, who would admit that? And I think what was it, his uh his sons uh discovered him, and one of them was making fun of him. Um Abraham lies. So Abraham lies to Pharaoh, saying Sarah was his sister. I remember the first time I read that, I was like, he lied, no way, and they yeah, they documented that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

Yeah, why is it this in the Bible?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:41

That's crazy. Yeah, um, Moses was a murderer, so he killed uh an Egyptian and and he hid the body. I remember reading that and I was like, wow, Moses. So he's a good guy, yeah. I mean, that's what I love about this. The Bible is embarrassing um these heroes. They're they're they're they're just like everyday people. Uh David committed adultery, sleeping with uh Bathsheba. Uh Peter denied Christ when he swore up and down, I would never do it. Never do it. And uh, and sure enough, and it was even witnessed by uh multiple people that uh he denied Christ three times and and then and then he wept because he realized what Christ told him and it just hit him so hard, he just started bawling.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:19

But that's part of the human experience, yeah. And I think not to sidetrack you, but that's part of why this is revealed to us. The the the human nature, I connect with that, you know. Um, people connect with a David who had everything, was this great hero, truly, yeah, but got caught in his own desire and sin. Yep, and that's an everyday type of experience. Now, God shares that with us to again continue the story of redemption. Man falls, man has fallen, it's in need of a savior, it's in need of redemption. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:50

Um, yeah, and David pleaded with God constantly, Lord, I'm I'm so wicked. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:56

So and often the Bible shows the wrath that comes on these individuals that due to that sin, even if there is redemption.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Uh, so uh just a couple more examples on uh the imperfection of the people in the Bible that are so important. Matthew uh eight, they panicked in the storm, and Jesus rebuked their lack of faith. He's like, Why? You know, I'm here, and he was sleeping. Jesus was sleeping through that storm. Just amazing. Uh Matthew 14, uh, Peter sinks when he's walking on the water, and Jesus tells him, Oh, you of little faith. Yeah, the Messiah is right there in front of you, and he's telling you to walk, and he still loses his faith. It just shows how finicky and weak we are, you know, compared to God. Yeah. Um, Matthew 16, Jesus rebukes him for not understanding his miracles. Matthew uh 16, further, Jesus tells tells Peter, get behind me, Satan. Um, because Peter was speaking out of out of context. And I just love that these guys are not perfect. I love how Christ picked the really the the worst of the worst, you know, many cases, the bad news bears. You know, none of them are really good at uh much of anything, but they made a huge transformation in this world. Yeah. Um, in Mark at nine, I love this. They were arguing about who is the greatest, shows their selfishness. Like, am I first? Am I gonna be first in heaven?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:12

See, I connect with all this. Uh I mean, we get this, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Yeah, oh so yeah. Mark 14 talks about all the disciples fleeing and abandoning Jesus, how we were talking about how they they they hit when when Jesus was crucified. They were like terrified, they didn't know what to do. Uh Luke 24, Jesus calls them slow of heart to believe. John 20, Thomas refuses to believe without physical proof. I mean, guys, I love this because the apostles were chosen not because they were perfect or that they were special, he chose them because they were so imperfect, so broken. And God used them as an example. And that's that's the story of redemption. You weren't and and we're still not perfect, but you were much different when you were younger. Me, I was much different when I was younger, and especially before salvation. You wouldn't you wouldn't know you would be like, Wow, you've changed so much. I'm sure people that knew me when I was younger, if they knew me now, um from school, because a lot of people from school, you don't carry on the friendship after high school and middle school, but yeah, I was much different then. And so I think that this is just a great point of how the Bible uh changes people and turns us into something a little bit more glorified, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

What he doesn't turn us into superheroes, but he he does do some really amazing things with the butt but but the important part here too that they're making is the the Bible's radical honesty, yeah, right? I mean, again, going back to the proofs that we're looking for here, people invent legends. Um, that's what people do, that's what man does. I mean, you can see it in all the Greek gods and all the you know, when man gets their writing ability, you know, we create impossible versions of us, Superman, yeah. Um, we give them unreal uh, you know, attributes, and uh maybe until recently most were just cast in good light, right? I think culture's changing some of that. But the point is that it shows the the truth of scripture that's unlike anything else. This isn't a legend, this isn't a story, this is history. Yeah um, and I think that that's just a great profound point that the imperfections of the people God keeps using, even Israel himself, yeah, time and time again. He walks with them, he leads them, he calls them as a nation, he leads them out of bondage into what's gonna be the promised land, and they can't do anything but fail him. Yeah, and yet his faithfulness continues in this story of redemption with the people of Israel. And I'm still fascinated by that, and we're still watching that today, regardless of people's views on it. That's what we're still seeing happen with the people. God's uh, however you want to look at it from a theological perspective, um, is not done with them. Oh, yeah. And that's biblical. So yeah, I I think this is uh such a great point.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:58

Um yeah, so the last point on that topic people invent those legends uh to make heroes look better. That's been all throughout history, right? Even the old Greek gods, you know, and the and the heroes for the uh against the Greek gods. Uh scripture often makes them look worse because they're all imperfect sinners, just like us. And that that puts the reality into it. That's what I love about the Bible. The Bible's not saying uh you get saved, you're now a superhero, you're now perfect. That's furthest from the case. No, we're all working towards that perfection or that holiness, right? Yeah, and that's the journey, and that's the wonderful part about it. And we continuously change and get better. Um, but uh yeah, I love I love uh I love that example. So the last point, yeah. So the Bible transforms people, but that doesn't happen in other religions, not like this, where you are transformed, yeah, and it's permanent, and you continue to change and get better. Now, obviously, the I think this would be another topic. I think there are people that um fall from grace. I think you're still saved, but there are people that fall from grace. But overall, you are transformed. There's something that changes in you, yeah. And so uh millions, it's it's millions, I would even think billions of people now across the century, yeah, across centuries, have uh witnessed a change in themselves or have documented it, whether it's a personal journal journey. Yeah, telling other people, it's just it's not it wasn't a an emotional experience, different topic there too. Um, but Christianity has transformed addicts, yeah, people who are addicted to something. I I mean, when I was younger, I I had certain things that I was really drawn to. I could care less now, now that I've I've my walk in crisis further. Restored marriages. I mean, you hear all those stories, uh healed relationships, renewed identities, radical forgiveness, lifelong character change. Yeah. Um, and this isn't limited just to one culture, it's global, it's global, it's everywhere, different personalities and different eras, and it's historical and it's consistent, right? It's it's not like um one person changes and they turn into a musician. Yeah, this is a spiritual change based on God's word, what God says is going to happen. You don't have the desire to cuss, you don't have the desire to hurt people, you don't have the desire to steal. I mean all those things, the foundations that we talked about earlier.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Yeah, he he's replacing those wrongful desires with his own. I mean, yeah. I mean, and this began weeks after the resurrection. Yeah, that rapid change for thousands becoming millions, and then down through the the the the his the years, like you said, millions, maybe billions of people transformed.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:47

Yeah, and and that's you know, that's another thing you have to wrestle with. If you're questioning Christianity and how it came about, you have to wrestle with these. So it's been consistent, right? So this is what exactly what you expect if the gospel were true and supernatural, not merely just psychological. And so, um, you know, emotion can spark a moment. We all get that. I've been to uh concerts or whatever, and I'm like, wow, that was moving, or saw a movie, and I'm like, wow, that was moving. But this is something that is sustainable. Where you see people that don't drink anymore, complete sobriety, uh, reconciliation, which the Bible calls out. If it's true, yeah, if true, true conversion, right? Um, lifelong repentance. You know, there are people that say, I I I well sobriety, I don't drink anymore. I don't have that desire when before salvation, they were drunks, right? Partying all the time, drinking like you wouldn't believe. Uh sacrificial love, moral transformation, freedom from destructive patterns. You know, this is this is the power one of God. It's the power of scripture in the power of walking with God, having a relationship with Him, praying, um, doing the right things, and having a desire to want to change.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:00

It's such a big topic because you could get into what the work of the Holy Spirit does, which I know sounds uh-oh, mystical, whoa. But it the Bible talks about the renewing of the mind. Yep. And be being filled daily, multiple times, constant. Uh, it talks about the prayer life of a believer. It talks about the armor of God that we're to equip ourselves with. Um daily. In in understanding, it's not physical, right? It's it's a it's a spiritual experience, and understanding and equipping ourselves with a word, God's word. But anyway, it's laid out for you, right? And those trans Paul encouraged, I think it was the Philippians, um, work out your faith. Yeah, work out your faith. Um, and that was a call that this is like an ongoing experience, and that life transformation for millions, billions of people over all of history is inconsistent.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:56

Right, it's not um, I I went to uh an event, I got saved, went back home, started doing the same thing over again. I would say that there that was not that was just a an emotional experience, it was not salvation, yeah. So and all these changes, guys, it requires power. Yeah, but this doesn't happen um easily. Yeah, this requires some sort of power. So Christian transformation, it's durable, repeatable, cross-cultural, multi-generational, uh, it's rooted in truth, not feelings. So this is why our testimonies matter, and this is this is why uh showing uh the gospel, showing the transformation, and and even like you just talked about after the resurrection, why it happened so fast and so why it's so important. Yes, there is a uh an actual change, people can uh uh see it. So and and and why, why it why this change happened? Hebrews 4 12 says the word of God is living and active. You don't save people by saying, Hey, Jesus lived. That can maybe start the conversation, but it's feeding somebody scripture because scripture is alive, and when you give it to somebody uh who is predestined that hears scripture, uh it changes them. And some of them will wrestle with it for a while and then it eventually wins. Some of them it's like immediate. Immediate, I believe that.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:11

That's it's living, yeah, is a great way to say it. The word says uh it's sharper than a two-edged sword, it cuts, it divides, but it means truth. It parses knowledge, it allows you to to to to uh gain understanding, which I think is what we all need. Yeah, maybe not so much in a culture that we're living in that is now just re rejecting ideas and thinking and uh prop processes where we're so into emotion and experience nowadays that it's it's hard for someone to probably even have a conversation like this for more than five minutes. Yeah. And that's I think the tragedy of today. Uh, that too few are willing to talk it through. Um, and I hope that changes uh because the Bible is living and active, and it it is um it what does it say? Doesn't return void. Yeah, everything builds you up, everything adds to your understanding and knowledge. It's for your benefit. Yeah, and what else does that? Yeah, I mean you can't go read a science book and go, I feel changed. Yeah, I feel revolutionized, I have hope.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

In fact, you might be the opposite. Yeah, you might think differently about uh a certain topic, but yeah, it doesn't it doesn't change your morality, not at all, yeah. And so I I like how you start out your uh reply with it cuts through deception. So these this is what change does from hearing the word of God, which is scripture, it cuts through deception, it convicts the heart, it renews the mind. I need to know that it breaks chains and bad habits, it restores what sin has destroyed and transforms the entire person. So it's not just a metaphor, it's something that is observable, right? Actual scientific, actual, you can see it. Uh so it's it's not um it's not something that's a fairy tale.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:05

Yeah, I wow, you can't really punch that hard enough either, because that's so true. Um, all right. Well, we gotta wrap it up, but I will say this, and I captured this thought. It's simple, the single strongest argument you can have. If you had a few minutes, I would I would I would highlight these topics. Jesus rose from the dead. Yep. Jesus affirmed the old testament. Yep. Jesus authorized the new testament, and therefore Christ validates scripture. Yep. If you start anywhere when it taught when talking about the validity of scripture, the truth of scripture, that those things you cannot deny, that's where you start. Yep. And I think we did that today. I think we talked about enough of these topics. I know it's a feels like a high-level discussion, so much scripture, but it's kind of hard to have this discussion without so much scripture. You have to, yeah. Because I feel like you have to have the supporting truth. I think the unfortunate fact is it's hard sometimes for someone to ingest this type of um learning. Yeah. But I I would encourage people who are seeking that that's what it's going to take. Well, this the subject is Christianity in our textbook, is the Bible, right? There it is. Yeah. And I hope that we're proving the truth of it. So next week we'll get into the most profound arguments against the Bible. So it might be a little more um uh not heated, but uh, you know, there's some big debating points um that people try to make with these, and hopefully we'll do um we'll do it justice as we kind of rip into them and and show God's word to be true. So that's our goal. Yeah, sounds good. It's great talking to you today. Hopefully we made an impact and uh shared some truth. So God bless.