013 Patterson Gimlin Bigfoot Film - HOAX or MASTERPIECE

For nearly 60 years skeptics, believers, and scientists have fought over the same 59.5 seconds. This week the Henchmen reopen the most disputed footage in paranormal history and the deeper they dig, the stranger it gets. The original film vanished. The witnesses changed. The money started flowing. So what really happened in Bluff Creek in 1967? Tune in to find out. 

If you love Bigfoot, you'll love AMERICAN BIGFOOT: ENCOUNTERS FROM THE FRONTIER By J.M. Harrow AVAILABLE NOW at conspiracyjournal.com and amazon 

Transcript

Michelle 0:10

This is the Conspiracy Journey Podcast.

Bobby 0:15

The transmission starts now. Today we I've noticed from the recordings, I always I like to start with today.

Michelle 0:25

Today was a Monday.

Bobby 0:26

Today we're talking about. So maybe I'll try to do something different.

Michelle 0:29

Okay.

Bobby 0:30

This episode. Ooh! Yeah, you like that left turn. Left turn. Okay. This episode. We're talking about the Patterson Gimlin film, which is like the it's the Bigfoot film, the film for a lot of the stuff in this arena for pretty much all cryptids. A lot of the and it it crosses over into a lot of paranormal stuff. It's just so well known. It's so ubiquitous. And we're gonna get into the ins and outs of how the film came about, who the guys involved were, you know, the legacy of it, the debate about it. It's a hotly debated video, hotly debated topic. And uh everybody's got an opinion on this video, but everybody comes from a different angle. Or a lot of people come from different angles, a lot of people come from different opinions, but people be having opinions about the video. Yeah, I have an opinion. Yeah, yeah, for sure. As do I, you know, I I've been in this zone checking on this video, watching film, reading about these guys and and what they were up to and their their overall vibes. And you know, there's a lot of information. The one of the overarching themes of this video and in everything about it, there's a heavy confirmation bias. If you if you want it, if you come from a specific standpoint and want it to lean a certain way, it's pretty easy to find some evidence to tip the scales in that direction. But let's get into it. Let's talk about the guys. It's October 20th, 1967. And we're with Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin. And these guys, they're a couple former rodeo writers, amateur boxers.

Greg 2:02

Cool.

Bobby 2:03

Yeah, they live in Washington. So they they know each other kind of from that circuit. Like they're real cowboys. These guys are like legit cowboys, they live in eastern Washington. Roger Patterson, his job at this point is Bigfoot stuff. But but but Bob Gimlin's job at this point and after this is like breaking cults. He's breaking young horses for people. Like he's a real he's a real cowboy. That's that's his job. Got it.

Michelle 2:31

I was thinking about different cult.

Greg 2:33

C U L T.

Michelle 2:34

Yeah, I was thinking C L C and I can't even see.

Bobby 2:37

That would be that would be on brand. Like this Bigfoot Hunter is also like extricating people from cults.

Michelle 2:42

Yeah, I was like, that's such a cowboy move. I'm going in, I'm getting you out of this cult. I just I saw there was a whole movie that happened in my mind in milliseconds, and then you were like something about cows, and I was like, what? Yeah, this is a different movie.

Bobby 2:55

Is about cults, but the other, the other cults.

Michelle 2:58

Got it.

Bobby 2:58

Okay, I'm back. So yeah, Bob's breaking horses. And him and Roger, they're going on a lot of these trips together. And they wait, what trips?

Michelle 3:07

What sorry? Yeah, sorry.

Bobby 3:09

I just like, you know, I lost a little bit of like what exactly where I wanted to jump into this story. But let's let me let me stick to a couple of the the basic basic things of of this day at this point. So what the what the Patterson Gimlin film is, is a short movie capturing an unidentified Bigfoot subject. Um it was taken Friday, October 20th, 1967. Some people debate the date that it was shot. We'll get into that in a minute, in uh the Bluff Creek area of Northern California. It's a tributary of the Klamath River, a little bit south of the Oregon border, um, a little bit east of the Pacific Ocean. So that area is is still to this day is a very, very dense forest. Um there's a the area, I don't know if this technically classifies in that area, but there is a large area in that area that's called the Lost Coast. And that's still what it's called today. And there's just there's just no major highways that go through there. If you look at a map, Highway 101 comes down, and this is the part where a point you come down on 101 and then you would get off and ligate, which I've done many times, and and then connect with Highway One down in like the Mendocino area, but north of there, there's like no main roads at all. Um you don't go through there by accident whatsoever. Like you really have to be intentional to go out there. So it's a pretty rugged area, and that's still present day, that's how it is. So in 1967, I would imagine that it's much more so.

Michelle 4:29

Is it a part of the Redwood Forest?

Bobby 4:31

There's Redwoods there for sure. Okay. Yep.

Michelle 4:34

I've been up there. It's it is dense. Um I did the whole like drive your car through the tree thing and all that. I saw a part of the I think Lost Coast where they filmed Jurassic Park. Am I making that up?

Bobby 4:46

I'm I'm not not sure. I know that they they filmed some parts of Star Wars in this area.

Michelle 4:50

Maybe that's what it was. Anyway, there were a lot of ferns, really dense, dense.

Bobby 4:55

That's in a spot in Humboldt County, yeah. I went to visit visit that spot where where they were from.

Michelle 5:01

Cool.

Bobby 5:01

Um but yeah, even to get to like the Redwoods area, like you're much further inland in a lot of it, or further north toward the Oregon border where that and then the highway cuts inland. So there's this big chunk. It's pretty easy to spot on a map, and it's large, huge, yeah, this area.

Michelle 5:16

Oh, this is so exciting.

Bobby 5:18

Yeah, so there's you know, there's a lot there's a lot of mystery to be had out there, I think is the point. In this spot, there had been a flood a few years earlier. And so when the sighting happened, it looked a specific way, but it looked that way because uh it had been flooded a few years before. So shortly after that, there was a lot of regrowth. So the spot where this uh sighting occurred was lost for a long time and was rediscovered in 2011. And so it's a segment of a bluff creek just uh south of an area called the bowling alley, which I imagine is like trees are getting hammered with rocks and stuff as the water flies down it. I think it would dictate that. Yeah, it's shot on uh 16 millimeter codachrome 2 film. The film length this section is is 954 frames, it's 24 feet of film. The runtime of the Bigfoot section, it there's a hot debate on what frame rate they were using with this film. So it's either 59.5 seconds at 16 frames a second or 53 seconds at 18 frames a second. So just for all the camera and film nerds out there, um, this is what uh what's going on.

Greg 6:30

Like like what what what difference would it make? Well, like why would that be such like a hotly contested like who gives a shit?

Bobby 6:37

Well, it really affects the gait of the creature.

Greg 6:40

Okay.

Michelle 6:40

Oh, okay, that makes sense. Um I thought it was just a question and it was answered. Yeah, I thought it was just like asshole nerds being asshole nerds.

Bobby 6:49

It just seemed like an arbitrary thing to be like this is definitely 18 frames per second.

Michelle 6:56

Okay, okay, we'll allow it.

Bobby 6:58

No, yeah, and and the the biometrics of the creature that's seen in the video is a big part of the hot debate, you know, and the gate is a big part of it at that. The famous frame is frame 352 from this film. Oh my god, we have to look back, yeah. The cover girl, that's right.

Michelle 7:15

You guys, I am naming something frame 353. Is that what it was?

Bobby 7:20

352.

Michelle 7:20

352.

Bobby 7:21

Yeah, three words on two.

Michelle 7:23

Whatever. Well, 352 is already used.

Bobby 7:26

353 is the back of the head.

Michelle 7:29

No faces. You don't have to pay them if you don't see the face.

Bobby 7:34

So there's uh on this same roll of film, the previous shot is a bunch of footage of them just like riding horses. Just a couple of cowboys riding horses in the woods.

Michelle 7:44

A Marlboro commercial.

Bobby 7:46

Absolutely a Marlboro commercial.

Greg 7:48

You can imagine if they had all of this footage in like a new Marlboro commercial.

Michelle 7:53

That would be sick.

Bobby 7:54

And so in the film, there's been there's been a lot of analysis on this, so it's it's generally accepted that uh at the closest point, uh, Patterson is 60 to 90 feet away from the creature. And when he first starts to film, he's 120 feet away, and the creature disappears at about 265 feet away from the camera. The encounter lasted less than two minutes total, and it's I'm just gonna back up a little bit. So Friday, October 20th, between 1.15 and 140 p.m., just south of the bowling alley, they round this corner in the river, and on the opposite bank, there's a large overturned tree that's obscuring their view. On the opposite bank uh is a Sasquatch. It's a bipedal ape-like figure covered in dark reddish-brown hair with prominent breasts. It's a lady. Yeah, that's right. Wee-woo. Yeah. Later will become to be known as Patty, after Roger Patterson's wife, Patricia.

Greg 8:49

It's such a weird insong.

Michelle 8:51

So wait, her name is.

Greg 8:52

We're just complimenting her. It's like it's a tribute to her, but it's just like, yeah, she's this big hairy beast woman. I hate my wife.

Michelle 8:59

It was a different time. Greg, you wouldn't understand. But just to be clear, is her name Patty Patterson?

Greg 9:04

Thanks for picking up on that.

Michelle 9:06

Great. Yeah. Fucking chef's kiss. Yeah. Thank you.

Greg 9:10

I like that that's such a not to insult boomers who might be listening, but it's just like, it's one of those like odd things that they used to do back in the day of just like, yeah, my bitch wife. Yeah, for sure. And it was just like a common thing to constantly say. Like it doesn't matter. Like you would see it on a t-shirt, like, oh I got this at the fucking carnival, but like my I hate my bitch wife. It's like, like, why is that on a t-shirt? What the hell is that?

Bobby 9:35

Yeah, there's the iconic uh motorcycle rider t-shirt that says on the back, if you can read this, the Mitch photo.

Michelle 9:42

Exactly. Classic.

Greg 9:44

I feel like comparing a Sasquatch to your wife is like it's a weird, it's a weird comparison to that. She's like, Yeah, my wife's a big fucking hairy ape.

Bobby 9:54

The youth will never understand the pastime of hating your spouse.

Michelle 9:57

Yeah. And how accepted it was. It was just totally fine.

Bobby 10:02

Definitely definitely the norm. Yeah. Um, so Patty is either six feet tall, six foot six, seven foot six, or seven foot three and three-quarters.

Michelle 10:12

Sorry, Patty the wife, or Patty Bigfoot? Patty the Bigfoot. Okay.

Bobby 10:16

Yeah, we don't know how tall Patricia Patterson is.

Michelle 10:18

Okay.

Bobby 10:18

Yeah.

Michelle 10:19

Okay.

Bobby 10:19

We can speculate though. Sure. Uh so they see this creature, Patterson's horse, Chico, rears up. I like it.

Michelle 10:26

Chico.

Bobby 10:26

Yep. And this is why when you watch the video in its entirety, it starts out crazy. It's it's like shaky, right? It's shaky. It's the ground. So that's like the horse rearing. Patterson like trying to get off and not die from this horse rearing while getting the camera out. So it takes him about 20 seconds, he says, to extricate himself from that situation and to get the camera going. And then if you've ever been in the forest like that, especially after a flood, there's like debris everywhere. Like you're not running through, like you're you're in like a minefield, you're stumbling, you're all over the place. So that's what the footage looks like is him really stumbling and running. And it takes him a while to like steady the camera and get a shot, you know. And so when he starts this, he yells to Bob, he goes, cover me. And so Bob like gets it, you know, they're cowboys, so Bob gets his rifle.

Michelle 11:16

No, you know, that's exactly what he meant. Shit. I was like, I thought he meant like from the horse that's freaking out. No, he means shoot Bigfoot, shoot Patty.

Bobby 11:25

That said, uh, when this expedition started, Bob Gimlin, he was a skeptic, and but Patterson made him agree, he was like, We're not gonna shoot it. He'd like a no-shoot pack. Yeah, you know, but like all bets are off once you like see for sure the thing. For sure. Um, and so he's like, cover me. And I don't think he doesn't want him to shoot it, but he's like, I'm a running towards this thing. So he's running towards a in a serpentine pattern, you know, he's doing his thing. Um, and so again, yeah, he gets he gets about 60 to 90 feet away. He stabilizes the camera and uh, you know, gets the shot that everybody knows of the creature walking and walking away.

Michelle 12:05

I have to say, I'm sorry to cut you off, but I have to say that I have seen the footage before. And part of what I thought was like this is bullshit, had to do with like the fact that it's perfectly still footage, and then all of a sudden it gets shaky and crazy, and that's so suspicious. And so you have answered so many of the questions that I have had for 20 years. You just answered in 20 seconds, yeah. So I have to like recalibrate and come back to the footage because I like now that it makes so much more sense. Yeah, I'm like, I just have a whole different view, but also now it's a girl and Bigfoot, and my heart is a boy, and I just like don't know what to do right now. I'm freaking out.

Bobby 12:46

And that so Roger Patterson, he's running after it. Yeah, sorry.

Michelle 12:50

So Bob's got Bob's got his rifle, he's covering us. We're going in for the shot, like the the video shot.

Bobby 12:57

Exactly. And so I love the look back frame is the frame. So that's when this happens. Roger Patterson, he gets the camera steadied, and the the look back happens. And I love like watching the video, and in the original video, it's like old film, it's old footage, so it's it's not very clear. But in a lot of the enhanced stuff, you really get the idea that like Patty looks back and it's just like, you really gonna keep following the wonder? There's like a lot of Sass to it. You know, there's a lot of Patterson described like he was close enough to read the facial expression, he described it as one of contempt and disgust. Nice and like, so that really was the vibe. And like it's just an interesting, you know. You can we can anybody can speculate and and and have a theory, but you know, if if this Sasquatch is real, probably not the first time it's seen a human, sure, and is definitely not afraid, wants to get away, but isn't afraid, but certainly like isn't gonna have it if he's keeps following.

Michelle 13:55

Yeah, it was very much of a fuck around and find out face. Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Bobby 14:00

Yep, I definitely agree with that. And so Bob starts to track the horse. Roger's there with the camera, Bob starts to track on his horse, starts to track Patty into the woods, and Patterson tells him to come back because he doesn't have a weapon with him. He tells him to come back because he's worried that there might be a mate around. Of course, is what he says. Like, don't leave me back here by myself. Um, so he calls him back, and then together they track uh the Bigfoot for a couple miles in the woods before they lose the trail. Um they go back to their camp, they get their plaster, and they come back to do some casts. Why do they have plaster, you might ask?

Michelle 14:39

Truly, I don't have plaster of Paris in my purse.

Greg 14:42

I mean, I have my ideas as to why, but yeah.

Bobby 14:45

And so we've got to go back a little bit to figure out why. And I mean the the main reason is they came out here looking for Bigfoot. That's why they're here. Roger Patterson, his interest in this sort of thing started with he read an article in a magazine written by Ivan T. Sanderson, who's a British biologist and like one of the founding figures of cryptozoology, and that kind of initially piqued his interest in Bigfoot. And so he's traveling around, he's going to like where there's track sightings. You know, he lives in Washington, so there's some action up there. Some some hot Bigfoot action. And uh in 1964, that's three years prior to this, he was down in this area. Um, this is a hotbed for Bigfoot activity as well in the in the 60s. So he was down there, he saw tracks nearby at Laird Laird Meadows. He sees this. This is kind of one might say that this is the whole debate that Roger Patterson sees these tracks, and he's like, if I find undisputable evidence for Bigfoot, I will get rich and famous.

Michelle 15:47

Right.

Bobby 15:48

So, like that's kind of that's kind of accepted as part of his his makeup. So that's what he's up to. He's like, if I can figure this out. So Bob's got a job breaking horses, Roger's trying to get rich, finding Bigfoot. And so, but like they're friends, and this is fun. Like these trips are fun. Like, let's get the horses in the trailer, let's go down to the Redwoods and bop around.

Michelle 16:11

Yeah, grab your plastic, grab your plaster Paris.

Greg 16:14

Yeah, let's go, Bob. I can imagine like that's it's it's kind of the vibe when uh I don't know if any of you have been hunting. It's like it's just the it's the act of doing it that's fun, and like you're just out hanging out, and it's like it's fun to be out doing that. Right. And then sometimes you don't get anything, like, and it's just but you still enjoyed the the time out there with your buddies and doing all the things. So it's I can imagine for one of them being like, oh yeah, like even like I like the idea of going out and doing this, but if nothing happens, like so what? Like we're out with the horses, we're having a good time.

Michelle 16:51

I want to go on this trip. Like this sounds great. Yeah, I'm going. I'm going on a no-kill Bigfoot, Bigfoot hunting trip for sure.

Bobby 17:00

And that's Bob. Yeah. Bob's like, right. Man, this is fun. You know, Roger's my buddy, he's pretty entertaining to be around. So I'll go on these these trips with him.

Michelle 17:09

Sidebar for a second. Can we talk a little bit more about breaking cults? So is he just Yeah, that's what this is about. Yeah, I'm just like just so I just need all the facts, Bobby. I need to know everything that's going on all the time. And I want to know, is he finding wild horses and trying to domesticate them? Is that what breaking a cult means?

Bobby 17:31

That that does happen.

Michelle 17:32

Okay.

Bobby 17:33

I don't know specifically what Bob's deal is. Um, if they're if they're breeding these horses or if he's finding wild horses and breaking them. Uh at that point in at that point in time in Washington, I would imagine that there were still wild horses around in the in the hills in that area. A lot of horses aren't born ready to ride. So you still need to to break them even if they are bred um in order for people to ride, and then he'll sell them. He'll get them ready to ride, train them, exactly.

Michelle 18:01

Yeah.

Bobby 18:01

Um, so that they don't buck buck you off. Right, right, right. Unless they see a Samscam show.

Greg 18:06

Yeah, I guess that's probably like using the word train is probably a better term for it. But there it is like a very specific process. So, like what I can recall of it. Um, not that I'm a horse trainer by any means, but it is like that. It's like a specific process to get them to like essentially do not like not buck people off.

Bobby 18:23

Yeah, and they I mean they say break because I mean it is like the horses are wild and we're gonna like tame them, we're gonna break this wild streak so that you can control them.

Michelle 18:32

Okay, so I hate calling it break. Can if we could all as humans stop saying that, train is better. That feels a lot better for me. I like I like befriend. Um, befriend is nice too. Also, can we just like leave the horses alone and let them be wild and stop trying to ride them?

Greg 18:47

Say if we throw down some cardboard and put on hip hop.

Michelle 18:50

You write on. Right on. Now we're talking about it. That's the kind of break in we're doing. That's the only kind of break-in we do.

Greg 18:54

I want to see some horse break-in.

Michelle 18:56

Yeah. No.

Greg 18:58

So yeah.

Bobby 18:58

Yeah. I mean begin with AI. So if you're looking to see some wild horses, go to Theodore Roosevelt National Park and they're still bopping around there. It's pretty awesome to see them just living their lives out on the plains. Yeah. Okay.

Michelle 19:13

Book me a trip. I'm going right now.

Bobby 19:15

Yeah, do some squatching and see some wild horses.

Michelle 19:17

Yeah, I'll bring all my video cameras, I'll bring all the film, I'll note what speed I'm doing it at.

Greg 19:22

Michelle just gets this real shitty Polaroid of like some tree bark in your.

Michelle 19:29

Yo, I'm not even kidding you. I have in my house a bigfoot-shaped piece of tree bark. I swear to God, that already exists. You just predicted the past.

Bobby 19:41

That's the type of clairvoyance we're working with. So, Roger, he's in the Bigfoot game before this.

Michelle 19:49

Right, right. Got it, got it.

Bobby 19:51

Documented. It it doesn't take much to figure out that. He published a book. He self-published a book called Do Abominable Smoke Snowmen Really Exist in 1966. Uh he founded the Northwest Research Foundation to solicit funds for expeditions.

Michelle 20:05

Sign me up. I'm a member.

Bobby 20:07

The the book that he published included 17 original drawings by Patterson, some hand-drawn maps, interviews. Um critics referred to it as circus poster style, which honestly sounds awesome. So he was a bit of a showman and he's he's out there hustling funds to try to get money uh to make this happen. And again, this is a little bit of the the rub. You know, is he trying to get these funds in order so that he can fake this video? Or is he like trying to get this fund because he believes it and he wants to find it because that will make him a merchant famous? So it's kind of like which of those motivations is true? Um, and we'll we'll continue to get into that as the as the episode wears on. But you know, Roger's a bit of a showman, he's adjacent to uh some Hollywood folks, you know. So he's also uh a little bit of an inventor. So he's trying to sell an invention in LA. He's trying to sell his like ponies and wagon act to Disneyland or Knott's Bury Farm. So, and this is again, this is the 60s. We're making a lot of westerns, the big film ranches are are cracking off down there in LA, so he's kind of involved in that. So he has a little bit of proximity to Hollywood. Um, he's also trying to find investors because he wants to make a Bigfoot movie. So he's in Hollywood, like I'm trying to make a Bigfoot movie again.

Greg 21:22

And none of this is really suspicious for people.

Michelle 21:26

It was a different time.

Greg 21:28

Like the idea, like you're out there looking for Bigfoot, you're super into Bigfoot. You hate your wife, you you hate your bitch wife, and you're actively trying to make a Bigfoot movie, and then you just go out looking for Bigfoot and find Bigfoot. Not sustainable. It's a miracle, it's a miracle, Greg.

Michelle 21:48

I don't know what what else to call it.

Greg 21:50

Okay.

Michelle 21:51

I mean, I will It's his fucking destiny.

Greg 21:55

I guess so, yeah.

Bobby 21:56

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean it's uh yeah, to and I I I like f for sure that tracks just to play devil's advocate is like you know he went on a safari and he saw a lion. You know, is it that crazy?

Michelle 22:10

No, it it it is it is crazy, but like I'm sorry, he went on a safari and he saw a unicorn. It's slightly different than seeing a lion.

Bobby 22:19

All I'm saying is he went to where the Bigfoots were supposed to be.

Michelle 22:22

Right, sure.

Bobby 22:22

And so like he and Bob that's another thing. He and Bob, this isn't when the story is recounted, this isn't necessarily a part of it. They were out there for almost a month before this. Well, they've been there for like a month looking for Bigfoot.

Michelle 22:36

Oh, I'm thinking about this like an afternoon miracle.

Bobby 22:39

No, it's not like it was very convenient that they were looking for Bigfoot and saw Bigfoot, but they were looking hard.

Greg 22:45

But it's almost like you should have just left that out of the story. Like, don't tell anybody you were out there looking for the shit.

Michelle 22:51

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.

Bobby 22:53

I mean, that's I've honestly digging into this, it made it that much more interesting that he was like a known Bigfoot hunter. I think it wasn't really trying hard and was like trying to get people to give him money to make a Bigfoot video.

Greg 23:04

And so part of all of this is he actually Again, it's not selling it.

Bobby 23:10

No, and I'm not trying to sell it, I'm just telling you what happened. And he he actually did get somebody, he does get funding to make like a docudrama about Bigfoot. And so that's part of what he and Bob are up to in this area. It's unclear like how often they're down there, how often this is happening. I don't believe that it's all one trip. I think that they make multiple trips to this area, but like at one point, Bob, Bob, Bob plays a character with like a wig. He's like plays plays a Native American character with a wig in this movie. And they're like one of the things there's uh there's an incident that uh took place on Mount St. Helens in 1924 where like uh a Bigfoot attacked all these miners. Um that was 1980. It attacked all these miners with rocks, so they're like doing these incidents with like interviews. It's it's pretty similar to like current style. We're doing some recreations, we're doing some recrees for some Bigfoot stuff.

Michelle 24:06

And so it's how does he talk Bob into this? I think Bob's just having a good time. Yeah, right on.

Bobby 24:11

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like Bob doesn't have to do any of the heavy lifting here, sure.

Michelle 24:14

Roger's out in nature enjoying himself, putting on a wig, doing a little recreating.

Bobby 24:19

Roger's doing like the pitch with the sandwich board or whatever. Bob's just he's just like, you want to go have some fun in the woods, Bob? And Bob's like, hell yeah, that's what Bob does.

Michelle 24:26

All right, it's a 60s. Maybe they were like on a little bit of weed.

Bobby 24:29

And so it would stand to reason that if we are making a docudrama about Bigfoot, at some point we'll need a Bigfoot suit.

Michelle 24:37

I know. I feel like we blew the budget on the Bigfoot suit because it's a good one.

Bobby 24:42

Yeah, yeah. So that's that's a big part of it. So, like that kind of catches us up to where we're at with the plaster cast.

Michelle 24:50

Oh, right, right. I forgot about the plaster cast.

Bobby 24:52

Yeah, so we're we're back there, we're with the plaster cast. This is what they've been up to to get them to this point. So they go, they make these casts, and then a lot of people have issues with the the timing of what happened kind of immediately after that. And according to them, like they took off from the woods. They're deep in the woods, they're down this Forest Service Road pretty far, they're out there. Um, but they go back to Willow Creek and meet with Al Hodgson, who owns a grocery store there. And he's actually a guy that Patterson has known or Patty knew his wife, not the Bigfoot, Patterson's wife knew and so sure. He tipped him off about the recent sightings in this area. Um Al Hodgson, the the owner did. So that's what kind of brought them down there at this specific time, was that there were some previous tracks cited in this area.

Michelle 25:41

Do you think that we actually call her Patty because the Bigfoot that we call the Patty bit I'm sorry, that we call the Bigfoot Patty because it actually is Patty in the suit?

Bobby 25:53

That's a great theory. That's not I've got a couple ideas of who might be in the suit if it was a suit, or people who claim claim that. Uh none of them are patty, but you might have cracked this thing. You know what?

Greg 26:05

I think I just solved it. Because I'm gonna say, like, you know, the suit that they brought with them to film the Bigfoot thing. Someone could have been wearing that suit.

Bobby 26:16

Occam's razor, Patty is Patty.

Michelle 26:19

Patty is patty. Yes, you know what I mean?

Bobby 26:21

Done. They don't have to lie, it's just like that's Patty called.

Michelle 26:24

Give me a lie detector. That's Patty. Yeah.

Bobby 26:27

The best lie contains a lot of truth.

Michelle 26:29

That's right. Yeah. That's right. I'm gonna keep all my thoughts to myself from here.

Bobby 26:37

So they they go out, they talk to the grocery store guy. Patterson tries to get him to or he gets him to call a local archaeologist, Don Old Abbott, and he's like, let's get a dog out here. And Donald Abbott is like, no. So but that you know that that solves that. Yeah, okay. Okay. But that is like a strike towards legitimacy for Roger, that he's like, let's get a tracking dog out here. We've got something to track. You know what I mean? He wants more, more eyes on the the site, you know, a vote for a week one, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michelle 27:10

But this is this is in the pro column of his checklist here.

Bobby 27:15

And so again, this is 1967. We've got these like rolls of film. And so Patterson goes out there, he drives to Eureka and essentially overnights this film to Yakima. And so this is where a lot of people have issues the to develop this type of codachrome film. It takes a really specific equipment that only a certain number of labs in the US had, um, and they weren't open over the weekends. And the film was like developed very quickly and was shown very quick quickly, like within a couple days. Um he shipped it to his brother-in-law, Al Diatli, another Al, a couple Als in the story, so don't get don't get too bogged down. Um and so he ships it to his brother-in-law and is like, this film's coming your way. Get it developed. Al Diatli. Um again, it's a weird thing. Oh, I guess not that weird. He always claimed that he could never recall where he took or picked the film up from.

Michelle 28:08

Oh boy. Um, but how many labs are there?

Bobby 28:12

Yeah, not that many, but it was maybe just uh a way to get you to not go to the lab and be like, did you tell me about this? Which kind of one of the thoughts that I had, and this is just my own waxing philosophically about what went down here. I do find it very interesting from a filmmaking standpoint that nobody ever talks about multiple takes. It's like if this was a hoax, the fact that they were just like one take, we got it.

Michelle 28:39

One and done, yeah.

Bobby 28:40

Is is kind of wild.

Greg 28:41

Um, but there's absolutely I didn't see anywhere that they but also film back then is like wildly expensive, and it's also wildly expensive to develop and produce and like tracking.

Bobby 28:51

That's what they developed like 75 feet of horseback film. Yeah, like they had more film that they were using. I just thought it was I just thought it was interesting that there wasn't there wasn't ever any allegations of multiple takes. Which that was that was interesting.

Michelle 29:05

Yeah, that's interesting, you know, because you would be able to see like the cut in the film and that they didn't line up perfectly, and this this proves that this wasn't the same time period, you know, because there's no time stamp on a film. Yeah, you know.

Bobby 29:19

But to contradict myself, maybe there was multiple takes and that why that's why Atley's like, I'm not gonna tell you where I took the film because whoever developed it saw that there was a bunch of takes, you know.

Michelle 29:28

Oh my god, it goes all the way to the top. All the film lives in Washington are in on it.

Bobby 29:33

Yep, Kodak, baby. Kodak's in on this thing. Um, so Roger, again, showman, he calls the Eureka Times Standard newspaper at 9 p.m. that night and is like, I saw a bigfoot. So he's getting on top of this real fast. You know, he's been angling this for this for a long time. Like, this is we made it happen. He has arise. Yeah. So yeah, so there's a lot of issues about the timing of the film and the the processing, but there's not there's not anything really specific to talk about in that, you know. When one guy's like, I checked the weather, all the like planes were grounded that night, and it like I don't know, it's just that have to do in the film. I know, yeah. He said that like the plate, like the film couldn't have been overnight because there were like no planes flight.

Michelle 30:16

Oh, actually, I started laughing when you said he overnighted the film because I mean in the 60s, what does that look like? How much did that cost?

Bobby 30:23

But also, this is also a time where like you could just go to the airport and be like, Gary, here's 400 bucks. You want to fly this to Washington? Yeah, fair.

Michelle 30:32

All right, you know, yeah, like and also where's he overnighting it to, like 50 miles away?

Bobby 30:38

No, it's a wise Yakima from Eureka to Yakima.

Michelle 30:41

It's how far is that?

Bobby 30:42

About driving it in a car is about 15 hours.

Michelle 30:45

Shit. I love that you knew that.

Bobby 30:47

Yeah, I've driven that a lot of times. Yeah, yeah. I am Roger Patterson.

Michelle 30:52

This is my story.

Bobby 30:54

Uh so they they got back to camp about midnight. They had like had they had not broken camp, they left all their stuff. They're like, we gotta get this film out. So at 5 a.m., uh they go back to the site. Uh it's raining a lot at this point. They go back to the site to cover the footprints. They cover them with bark because they brought some cardboard boxes, but those were soaked by this point. So they're covering the prints with bark to preserve this stuff. Um when they go to leave, there's a big mudslide, so they gotta like turn around and go a different way and uh have to use some heavy equipment to get their truck unstuck, which has no bearing on the story.

Michelle 31:26

But you know, adds legitimacy because why would they even put that in if it wasn't true?

Bobby 31:32

Yep, just uh, you know, it's uh we got a lot going on on this trip. And then they drive back to Yakima 580 miles with three horses in the truck. Um and so a few days later, uh man who works for the U.S. Forest Service, Lyle Laverty, goes there. He took a bunch of photos of the tracks. The tracks are there. Um nine days later, Robert Titnus, uh taxidermist. That's right. Uh he took a bunch of casts himself of these prints and was able to kind of map out in the creek bed, map out the movements of Roger Patterson and the creatures, the the serpentine pattern, as it were. Yeah.

Michelle 32:07

I love that it's I mean, I understand that it's the 1960s and not like the 1760s, but I'm just fascinated that the word spread fast enough to get like a taxidermist and a ranger and a whoever the hell else out there to do their own little looking and about looking about and investigating.

Bobby 32:25

Yeah, well, buckle up because it moves real fast. Okay. So that happened October 20th. By October 26th, we're screening this film at the University of British Columbia.

Michelle 32:35

Holy crap.

Bobby 32:36

Yeah, we're we're going. Because I mean, like, this is this is what Roger has been waiting for.

Michelle 32:42

Surely.

Bobby 32:42

You know, this has been uh his life for a long time, looking for this moment, and he's not wasting any time to like get it moving, you know. And so it seems like his brother-in-law, Al Diatli, it seems like he's been he's been his benefactor, he's funding a lot of this stuff. So consequently, Al's in Al's in on this um for like a cut of the the profits of this thing. So it's like Bob, Roger, and Al are kind of the the three-way situation on this uh on this film. And Roger expected like the scientific community to be like, this is incredible. Job well done, sir. This is this is incredible. That was not the case. Um yeah, I can imagine.

Michelle 33:23

Yeah, I mean, I get it though, he should be knighted or something.

Bobby 33:26

A lot of scientists wouldn't even watch the film. Shit. And also burn, dude.

Michelle 33:31

They wouldn't even watch it.

Bobby 33:33

Yeah, he had rented the camera and had went past his rental date. So an arrest warrant was issued and he was arrested a couple weeks. A couple weeks after returning. Um but he gave the camera back and the charges were dismissed.

Michelle 33:49

Um I can't handle that. I'm dead.

Bobby 33:51

So, but the the film is moving around. The guy whose article he read, Ivan Sanderson, to get him into Bigfoot in the first place. Um, he arranged seven North American screenings so in 1967, 68. So the film's starting to get out there. There's a famous Bigfoot hunter, Renee Dehndon. Uh, he took the film to Europe and Russia. Uh Russian science were no Russian scientists were notably more open-minded. So, and he took uh he took this film on tour and did a bunch of promo. Uh, he did a thing called like four-walling, which is in these areas, he would buy a bunch of TV spots in the coming days and be like, three days, this crazy ass film is gonna be on display. Come on down, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday kind of situation.

Michelle 34:34

Amazing.

Bobby 34:35

Um, and actually did pretty well financially touring it this way. His brother-in-law reportedly cleared 75,000 in profit.

Michelle 34:43

Fuck yeah. So that's I was just thinking, as you're saying the like Sunday, Sunday, Sunday. I was like, Al is getting his money back.

Bobby 34:49

Yep, yep. So there's some uh there's some money being made from this thing at this point. Uh and Patterson he keeps on his media blitz. Uh he's on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. He's on Murph Griffin. He's doing the thing, he's getting it wherever he can get it. He's also a shyster. Yeah. So he's uh selling the distribution rights to multiple people at the same time. Um he's not given Bob Gimlin his cut of the money.

Michelle 35:15

Oh, Bob.

Bobby 35:16

Um, and Bob eventually sues uh, I believe that Roger, I think he died in 1972. So not long afterwards. Wow, yeah.

Michelle 35:25

Do you think he just got like addicted to drugs and Bigfoot?

Bobby 35:28

I think it was cancer. He got addicted to cancer.

Michelle 35:31

Dude, it's so addictive. Yeah, yeah. Um I know I shouldn't be laughing at that.

Greg 35:36

It's just that exchange is like no, no, cancer.

Bobby 35:42

So Bob Bob Bob sues Patterson's window widow, his window. Um Patty? Patty.

Michelle 35:48

No shit.

Bobby 35:49

Because she's she's she's got his stake of this. He sues her and Al the Yattley, the brother-in-law, they're married. Um wait, what Patterson's brother-in-law is married to Patterson's sister. That's how he became his brother-in-law.

Michelle 36:03

Okay.

Bobby 36:05

The benefactor Al.

Michelle 36:06

Yeah, yeah. No, I thought Patty married Al after he died. I thought that's what you're trying to tell me. No, no. No, okay.

Bobby 36:12

No, they're brother and sister. Yeah, I believe.

Michelle 36:14

Okay.

Bobby 36:15

Um so yeah, Bob he sued them because he never got his one-third of the profits. Of course. Um he won he won his case. Yeah, as he said. They were like that tracks. After his death, there was a lot of unpaid loans and creditors that Roger owed money to, and several associates who said they were never repaid for Bigfoot-related ventures.

Michelle 36:35

Yeah. Fuck it.

Bobby 36:37

And there's some there's like a whole book written by a guy named Greg Long about this being a sham and a hoax and and how it went down. The ins and outs of that is it gets pretty deep. A lot of people got a lot to say, a lot of different things. Um, Roger died, but before his death, he remained an active Bigfoot hunter. Even like close to when he died, he sent an expedition to Thailand because he got a letter from an airman that was stationed there that was like they're holding Bigfoot in this monastery needing to come get him. And so he's spending his own money to go find this Bigfoot to see this thing happen. He sends a guy over there, but they can't find anything. Uh, or like they're like, I think this airman is mentally unstable. And he's like, I'll go myself. And then it turns out that that airman was mentally unstable, and Bigfoot was not, in fact, in this monastery. Oh, here we go. He died of Hodgkin's lymphoma in 1972. Yep, yep.

Michelle 37:35

Bummer.

Bobby 37:36

And uh one of the one of his deathbed sentiments was uh, I should have shot it. Ah you know there's also uh quote a later quote from Bob Gimlin saying, expressing a similar thing, which I thought was interesting. That it Roger made some money, Bob made a little bit of money. He's kind of made his a career in his later years. He also seems like a really sweet old man, Bob Gimlin, when you watch interviews with him. He's a sweet old cowboy who likes Bigfoot now, and he goes to conventions and does that stuff.

Michelle 38:04

Uh cool, is he still alive?

Bobby 38:05

He is. Oh he's still alive, but I did find it interesting that both of them were like, yeah, I should have shot it.

Michelle 38:10

Yeah.

Bobby 38:11

Yeah.

Michelle 38:12

That sucks.

Bobby 38:13

They've taken a lot of shit. Yeah, exactly. They've taken a lot of shit over the years.

Greg 38:17

And so well, I mean, it's it's it's expected. Like, there's so many people throughout history where they're just con men. And it's like when it comes to like, I don't know, freaks, like side show carnival stuff. It's just like, oh yeah, we just like sewed this as like monkey to a piece of a fish and like let it dry out. And we're like, oh, look at this like crazy thing that we have. So like there's so much of that like through history that like anyone that's just gonna be like, oh, like we found this Sasquatch and we shot some video of it, every like 100%. There's gonna be a handful of people that are just like, oh yeah, that's that looks legit. I can't believe it. That's amazing. And then like 95% of everybody's like, you fucking faked this. Yeah.

Bobby 38:58

And the crazy thing is that that five percent, there's a whole industry. Yeah, yeah. Built built off of that. And like this film, uh the fact that we're talking about it right now.

Greg 39:08

I'm a five percent.

Bobby 39:09

So many years later, and the like this film uh it spawned a documentary boom. It's it's the anchor piece of footage for like almost every piece of Bigfoot content out there. It's become a debunking this film has become like a cottage industry in itself, you know.

Michelle 39:24

It's so crazy too, because he obviously this was his dream, and that iconic image of Bigfoot that all of us see in our minds when we hear the word Bigfoot is his image, you know. Like, so regardless of frame of footage, too. Exactly. Regardless of whether that's right, regardless of whether that is real or not, he still like made it, but he'll never be recognized. Like, I don't know his name, you know.

Bobby 39:52

That that frame of film is now part of the Unicode standard and is an emoji that like the look back, you know, is is part of that. That's how how much this thing has taken on a life of its own and and what it's become over these years. And the the film itself is public domain, it was never copyrighted. Um, so that's part of why you see it replicated so much everywhere. There was a lot of like infighting and legal settlements about who Roger sold the rights to and who ended up with, and it seems like it landed with the Bigfoot hunter Renee Dehndon, has 51% of the footage of video rights and film rights, and Patty Patterson. I still love that name. Yeah, has like the the TV, the TV rights and some some other rights, and Bob seemed to not get much out of out of that. But you know, he also didn't seem to need to do much simple man. That's right. Yeah, just out there breaking colts. He's out there for the love of the game. He was out there for the love of the game, absolutely. Um, the reel itself it was lost um quite some time ago. It was last confirmed scene in 1980. Um so everything that we're seeing is like a copy of a copy of a copy, like the nine-inch nail song. Exactly, exactly. And so that does affect like the forensic analysis of the film. There is a second reel that was shown in that initial screening at the University of British Columbia of them like taking the cast and doing that stuff, and that disappeared. Of course. I also thought that that was interesting. That was like because uh it seems like Al Deatley had that or had this stuff. I wondered if there was like a little like something in that film that like maybe tipped off something, you know.

Michelle 41:26

What are you alluding to?

Bobby 41:27

Maybe they're like a glove, you know, or a continuity error or something like that, you know. Yeah, yeah, sure. That's like there's a reason that this film, this section of film, which would be profitable, yeah. Of course, disappeared and was never seen again. Of course, yeah. You know, I thought that was interesting.

Michelle 41:42

Back when you could truly disappear something, you know.

Bobby 41:45

So there's uh there's uh hot for people that are into that, there's the hot frame rate debate, you know, and people are looking into the the camera that they used, the Cinecodec K100. Um it has all these variable frame rates, but no click stops on it. So when Roger's like, I'm not sure what frame rate it was in, or that it could get bumped or moved. Um, there's also people that say that that camera was calibrated to run at 18 frames per second, even it was when it was set to 16. Um, and people who own these old cameras have tested that, and that seems to be true. But again, just another point for people to speculate.

Greg 42:21

Right. Going back to that, I'm curious if like people want to argue over the frame rate of the film. Like, what what would be so much of a change, or like what would be the difference between the two frame rates? And I understand, like you mentioned earlier the gate, but would what would that change? Like, like in terms of like how fast it's walking, okay, or like how wide its actual gate is and stuff. I I understand like how like that would change everything, but you're still staring at this giant bigfoot bigfoot thing walking. So like if it walks like a frame faster or slower, so like what like what what changes that in in the real world that has to be argued over?

Bobby 43:01

It it changes these opinions, and and that's I know, but that that's what I mean. Like, no, no, you can argue over it, but it's nothing, and that's the whole basis of this is this anthropologist says it means this, and this zoologist says it means this, and this primate expert says it means this. So it means so many things to so many people, but it doesn't mean the same thing to anybody.

Michelle 43:21

Yeah, it seems like such a-nothing to me.

Greg 43:23

Yeah, you know, yeah, it's like an arbitrary thing to like argue over when it comes to like the legitimacy of it. Like it's just like there's 10 other things that would like point things in one direction or another, yeah. That like you would like spend so much time being like, well, the fr the frame rate like would mean like this type of animal would be like this. And it's like you're missing the point of like what it is that you're actually looking at. Oh, if like the frame rate change meant like, oh, that that means it's definitely a man in a suit. And it's like, okay, like I can see arguing that in one way or another. Does it like does that is that what that means?

Bobby 43:58

Like, well, there's not a baseline from. Which to measure this, you know. So from a scientific standpoint, a lot of the argument is is is fruitless. And I mean when I said it it doesn't mean the same thing to anybody, it does mean the same thing to certain people, but there's so many of these different camps. And there's just because there's no like control in this in this experiment from which to measure in and I mean there is the control of like a human gait, and so that's what some people are using for their argument. Stanford's motion and gait analysis lab looked looked into it. They attempted to replicate the walk with a human subject, and it said they could match some of the movements but couldn't replicate all of the movements. And it's just like there's so many contradicting anatomical claims with this stuff that um again back to kind of the original point of confirmation bias. Like if you want to believe in one direction or the other, there's information here in the biometrics that you can grab onto to prove your point, whichever point you're trying to prove that it's a guy in a suit or that it's an actual big or that we don't know.

Greg 44:58

You know, you can you there's there's data points to grab the best place to start with would be I don't know. And I think that's the best place to remain because like like you're saying, like anything that you are going to then start picking apart and like oh, like it it your confirmation bias will take over. Because like if you would have to go down one or two roads if you're gonna start analyzing certain amount of footage, but it's like, yeah, but all of that stuff is still there to be analyzed. And the idea that, like, well, if you take this road, that means ape. If you take this road, that means human in a suit. Okay, well, that like we're we're still at like the zero point at this point, right? We're still at the like that doesn't mean anything. So you have to, if you're gonna look at it scientifically, you kind of have to like take all of the information in and then come up with an unbiased look at it. You have to just get someone who doesn't care one way or the other to like analyze it all and like see what they say.

Bobby 45:51

I don't know. And and and when that's been done, what they say is that it's inconclusive, right? That that that there's there's nothing definitive to say one way or another.

Greg 46:02

And that's what that's what each side is going to use too, as like as their confirmation for their side.

Bobby 46:07

And from like from a scientific standpoint, the the claim is extraordinary. This this claim. And so the burden of proof, like it doesn't lie with science, it lies with the people making the claim because the claim is extraordinary, and there's not enough evidence along with the claim to prove it to be true. Like, that's just a fact, is that there's not enough evidence to prove this thing to be true in this in this realm. Um, and so like I'm sure people at home are screaming like, talk about the hoaxes, talk about and like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, we're there. We're there right now. Um, you know, and they're like, uh man, like everybody's got an opinion on this thing, you know. So a lot of they've talked to a lot of special effects people in Hollywood, you know, and the same the same thing happens with the special effects guys in Hollywood that happens with the zoologists and the anthropologists, is you get both opinions. There's guys that are like, man, that suit's incredible, we couldn't do anything like that. And there's other guys that are like, that's a piece of garbage. Yeah, right. You know, these are like the preeminent uh people in the industry, and so I'd like again, it's a it's kind of a fruitless argument, but there are a couple people. Uh John Chambers, who did a lot of the suits for the planet of the apes, he was he's an excellent guy to talk to. He would he would know, and and so for the time, he was like, it's not like a standard gorilla suit that you would buy in Hollywood, like that's not a thing, yeah. It's definitely a custom made thing. If it is fake, and the general consensus is is like if this was made in 1967, it was custom and required a lot of skill to make it happen. So whoever made this suit um, yeah, would need a a certain level of skill. There are other special effects guys. There's a guy I kind of enjoy this guy. He was uh a renowned special effects guy in Hollywood, and then he retired and became like a Bigfoot enthusiast. So amazing. He's like kind of spoken about as an authority, even though he's not a scientist, but um, he's he definitely talks like he is one. So he's talking about a lot of the like muscle movement and fine detail in the video and all that stuff. He's also the one that uh Bob Gimlin in an interview, they're like, How tall do you think it was? And he's like, I'll tell you exactly how tall it was. He was seven foot three and three-quarter inches. That's because Bill Muns analyzed this video, and that's why he said, Well, Bill Muns is a special effects guy. So, you know, but according according to Bill, he figured it out. And Patty is seven foot three and three-quarters inches. So um I believe it. And so the main what people who think that this is absolute bullshit will tell you is that it's a guy named Bob Hieronymus in the suit.

Michelle 48:35

Where does that come from? How do we know it's Bob? I still think it's Patty.

Bobby 48:39

Bob says it's Bob.

Michelle 48:40

Oh, okay. All right. Um, some guy comes out of the woodwork and is like, hey, that's me in the suit. That's exactly Bob. Get out of here. Tell me everything.

Bobby 48:50

Bob, like, man, I got some opinions on Bob. Just listen to interviews. Bob might be the most full of shit person in this story, which is saying a lot. So, like, he comes out, I don't know, like 37 years later, he's like, I'm tired of this secret, but he's also using words like payola, like, I never got my payola for this. He's just a shyster. You listen to him, he's just like that kind of guy. There's also footage that people will like use to immediately dismiss and debunk this video. There's a still photograph that they'll use of Bob Hieronymus with like the stance. The the again, the people love the gate. And so there's like a very specific still photograph of Bob with like the exact pose of Patty, and it's like, oh shit, that looks exactly like it. But if you look at the video that that was taken from, it's of Bob showing how he walked like the Bigfoot, and so he's like throwing the look over his shoulder just like a bunch of times in that video. And so the still of like I was the guy in the suit is of a video of him being like, Look, here's how I was the guy in the suit, which is not hard to replicate for anybody. I can do it right now. Like we could all like be like, look, this is me how I walked, and I looked over my shoulder. So it's really him like hamming it up and to use that as evidence that's like, oh, it's definitely him because he's very much trying to replicate the walk of the creature in there. Um, and this just everything that I heard from Bob just stunk of like him trying to get a little cash on this from the back end. And there's also a guy named Philip Morris cigarette smoking. He's the owner of Morris costumes. Uh, we don't know if there's a relation to the cigarette guy. Um, but he says he claims that he sold a mail order suit to Patterson in 1967. Um, but again, he would have a suit to because he's out there making a bigfoot movie, you know. So it's like that kind of tracks. Um, and so he says that he he sold this suit made of Dynell, and you know, this is from a costume company, but the suit that Bob Hieronymous claims he wore, he says it was made the Roger Patterson made it from horse hide, and then it's like stinking horse hide. And so the these two suits is like synthetic fur, like Hollywood suit versus like stinking horse hide are so different. Yeah, yeah, so different. And so for these two people to claim to be like I was the guy in the suit and I made the suit, but their claims do not match up whatsoever. That's not to say that one of them is not telling the truth. I think Bob's a shyster, but again, just full of shysters. Shyster City is this thing.

Greg 51:26

So I like that this footage could possibly be considered the first like found footage movie. Like we all like we all tend to point towards like the Blair Witch project as like that style of movie being shot. Right. Where it's like, oh, he went out to shoot a Bigfoot movie, but this was the Bigfoot movie that he shot. Right, right, right. And it's just like it's such a genius move.

Michelle 51:47

Yeah, right.

Bobby 51:47

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And you know, there's just a lot of skeptics, the skeptics about skeptics that are like Bob or Roger couldn't have faked this, right? Like he lacked the like technical know-how to like make a suit. Like, in whether you think the suit is like perfect or not, like it looks better than what this cowboy would put together from stinking horseide.

Michelle 52:10

Absolutely, that's a horror movie.

Bobby 52:12

Quite check. Um, and the and people that know and made these suits, they're like, that's a good suit, you know, like that's pretty well done, and the way that it does move with the person inside of it, if that's the case, right? Is is pretty well done. And people have tried to recreate this with like the the gorilla suit technology of the time, essentially. Um, and it doesn't like look the same or uh as accurate. Roger stuck with his story until he died. Bob Kimlin still sticks with the story, and you know, no matter what you think about it, this film has endured.

Greg 52:47

Right, yeah, you know, it's endured and it's not it's become part of like pop culture, and like just like modern American mythology type stuff.

Bobby 52:57

Yeah, absolutely. And uh yeah, it's just so so interesting. And you know, on this, there's a couple things that I came away with. I uh the Thailand thing before his death was very interesting to me. That like it just made me realize that if this was a hoax that Roger Patterson did, he did it seemed like he did believe in Bigfoot. Right whether or not this was true, it seemed like there was a part of him that wanted it to be true and did in fact believe in Bigfoot, which I thought was very interesting, and that he's faking potentially faking Bigfoot encounters so that he can use those funds to go find the real Bigfoot.

Michelle 53:34

Right.

Bobby 53:34

It seemed like that was kind of part of his vibe.

Michelle 53:37

Yeah.

Bobby 53:37

Um and again, I mean he wanted to get rich and famous off this, but man, if there's not a better way to get rich and famous than finding an actual Bigfoot.

Michelle 53:45

So, you know, yeah, shooting it this time, put it in a cage, actually capture it alive, shoot it with a trunk, put it in a cage. Don't do that. Oh my god, I can't believe I just did that.

Bobby 53:56

Yeah, and it seems like I mean, there's like there's so many Michelle seems to like hunting now.

Michelle 54:02

No, no, let her live, dude. Let Patty live.

Bobby 54:05

There's also the possibility that Roger Patterson's side of this thing was a hoax, but Bob didn't know.

Michelle 54:12

Right.

Bobby 54:13

You know? Yeah, that's a that's a possibility.

Michelle 54:15

That's a great way, by the way, guys. If you want to get me involved in some shit, don't tell me.

Bobby 54:20

Okay. We want to hoax you.

Michelle 54:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me plausible deniability till my deathbed.

Bobby 54:26

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough.

Michelle 54:28

And I will swear whatever happened was true.

Bobby 54:31

Yeah. So I mean, it's, you know, again, there's a lot of talking points in this video. And and I I tried to present it the facts as it were about the creation of this video and the journey that it took without like coming down too hard on one side or the other. Because I feel like there's pretty I don't know about strong evidence for both. There's pretty strong evidence that was a hoax, and there's some evidence that it's not. I do want to that it's I do want to bring up like I want to hear what you guys have to have to say. Yeah.

Greg 55:00

There there is one angle of it that didn't talk about yet, and that's the enhanced footage that that like obviously it's ran through computers, ran through a lot of more modern technology, but like I think about it in terms that like it's gonna start adding things that might not have been there, and there's a lot of people that are using like, oh, well, this is the gold standard now, and it's this heavily modified footage.

Bobby 55:22

And if if just real quick, if you haven't seen, like, go find an original version to see to see what Greg is talking about, and what and what we're often seeing these days um has been put through a lot of uh stuff, a lot of technology and digit digitization to get what we're seeing today. So just take a look to see the the differences of these things.

Greg 55:42

There is one actually on our Instagram. Um, it's the more up-to-date, it's like all the shakiness is removed and it's literally just cropped straight to uh the creature itself and it follows it along and it's super clear, and obviously it's still kind of blurry and it has all those like aspects to it. But my point with it was when even like when you shoot film and you have something that you're like, oh, it's now like remastered in 4K for blue or for Blu-ray or something.

Michelle 56:12

Yeah, right, right, right. Like you have what does that mean?

Greg 56:15

I can I can walk you through it's it's not for dumb and nerdy, but like I can walk you through like what the process is of doing that, and but it usually requires needing the original film.

Michelle 56:25

Uh so these guys are all remastering they're remastering a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.

Greg 56:32

Yeah, but like with that too, like if you think about when you remaster, like even something that's shot on film and then it's like kind of digitized and remastered, and like there's stuff that's added and taken out, usually that wasn't there, but it's still pretty true because you'll watch, like I'm thinking about old Star Trek episodes, and like they remaster it, and then you watch it and you're like, Oh, I can see all of the dumb shit in the background.

Michelle 56:57

Right. They just like make everything be in focus.

Greg 57:00

Yeah. So like when you watch it, the original like cut of it, like there's this like this funny thing that they used to do in Star Trek where they used to place or tape um black, like essentially boards up on the back because like it was black reflective glass for like the control panels in the back. And there would be like these spot highlights from the lights. So they would just tape black cardboard up on it. Yeah, and you don't notice it. People used to and like kind of point it out a little bit, but like if you're just watching it, you don't know.

Michelle 57:31

Right.

Greg 57:31

If you watched like a remastered 4K of it, you're like, there's just black boards all over the back. And like you definitely see it. Right, right, right. So if you're gonna use that type of idea and look at new remastered versions of the Bigfoot footage, yes, there are going to be things that are getting added to it. Um, but it's also kind of sharpening up what was already there. Um, so there is like a balance that you have to adjust for.

Bobby 58:00

And isn't there like just again to be devil's advocate, like when you're editing, you do have an idea of which direction you want to take it in.

Michelle 58:10

Right.

Bobby 58:10

As you're remastering or coloring or that, you have an idea of the direction that you want to take it in. And so I don't know.

Greg 58:18

Yeah, and like that that all comes down to the editor as well of like how much am I gonna push this? How much am I gonna pull back here to like reveal what's here?

Bobby 58:26

And there's a lot of that that goes on in the editing, but and I mean you could you can just you can push any photograph to where it looks fucking weird and not real.

Michelle 58:34

Yeah, definitely. I mean, on our iPhones, there's like HDR settings and stuff, uh, which stands for high dynamic range, and like you can go into an image right on your phone and take like just the blacks and pull them out, and your picture looks insane really fast, you know. But you also reveal all of this stuff that was hidden in the shadows, you know, and so I can see every piece of dust or something on my black shirt that I couldn't see before. So I kind of understand like how you can take that old footage, footage, and now see that there's boobies, you know.

Bobby 59:07

I'm just I I am just being devil's advocate because the more you enhance that film, the more it looks like a guy in a suit, straight up.

Michelle 59:13

Yeah, straight up, but period. But also like I cannot understand how you would do that without the raw footage.

Greg 59:19

Well, that's a thing too. Like that's that's also where like a lot of I think the people are going to be arguing over this. It's like you need that original footage and yeah, I'm frenzied right now.

Michelle 59:29

Yeah, you know, and I'm not even nerdy enough to know uh the range of my frenzy.

Greg 59:34

And it's also like what how was it originally processed? Like, who did it hand off to? And then, like, again, the copy of the copy idea is just like what we see now has been handed off through hundreds, if not thousands, of people who oh all everyone touched it in some way or another to help like stabilize the footage to make it look like a little bit more seamless. They added essentially the whole background, and then like there's like a frame that moves around the the big foot, but oh, yeah, I've seen that itself. Yeah, and that that all works, but it's also like, yeah, it's it's been touched by so many people now that it's just like it's hard to say what is real, like when you're looking at something that's been that heavily edited.

Michelle 1:00:15

Yeah, I agree, but it also I don't know. Um I you said a lot of words, and I still don't understand how we can even call this enhanced footage. It's just edited, retouched footage at this point, you know?

Bobby 1:00:34

Yeah, yeah.

Greg 1:00:35

And that's the thing. Like, I don't, it's not that like I don't believe it. I am in that I don't know area because like I have there there have been plenty of uh articles and sources of people finding giant bones. And like they're and yeah, some of them are faked and like some of it is nonsense too. You really have to be careful about like what it is that you're like, oh, that is that real now? And like that's part of what we we even do with this. It's just like some fantastical thing comes out, and now we're just like, is that wait, is that real?

Bobby 1:01:06

Yeah, also I just Bigfoot is such an interesting debate as a whole. Um, you know, like Bigfoot tracks look very similar to Neanderthal tracks, which is like a thing, a real thing. And and I always found it interesting from from when I was younger and first started to look into this stuff. If you like, if you take a step back, all all that you're positing is that like there's a type of primate in America. Yeah, you know, that just like a gorilla exists in America. So like the at it at its base, we get we put a lot of extra like supernatural shit onto Bigfoot, but like at its base is not insane that that this could possibly exist, unlikely, you know.

Greg 1:01:47

Um I like how people get into like crazier things that like Bigfoot's a shapeshifter and he turned into a frog and he's like outside my house right now, and like people will take photos of a frog and be like, that's Bigfoot. And it's like there's a lot of how do we get there?

Bobby 1:02:00

There's a lot of high strangeness added to the story of a gorilla in America, kind of yeah.

Michelle 1:02:05

Because I am holding my head together right now because that just sums up every time I do research for a topic for this podcast, it goes like that. Like, how did I end up with a frog on my porch that's Bigfoot? You know, but it goes there every time.

Greg 1:02:21

Or like people will hear there's some animals that make crazy noises, like foxes and stuff. Yeah, and like the when they scream, it sounds like like a child or a woman like screaming in the woods, and people are like, oh my god, what is that? And people will be like, that's Bigfoot, and then or whatever, like whatever whatever the thing is that they want to believe it is outside of it being actually what it is. Right, right, right. So when when you're when you're fine-tuned to to hear the thing that you want to hear, like that's what you're hearing.

Bobby 1:02:49

It sounds I've heard uh recordings of of alleged Bigfoot recordings. Um, but what it was is this group of coyotes that sounded fucking crazy. Yeah. There was like 30 coyotes like vocalizing in this really specific way that like when you hear it, you're like, holy shit, that's unearthly. Right. You know, that's unlike anything I've ever heard. Um, but then you hear other recordings of coyotes doing that thing, and it and it is crazy. So yeah, there's a lot of those.

Greg 1:03:14

And we use sounds, like you can cut this out depending on how definitely gonna cut it out. Yeah, how how everything I say. Um going back to what I was talking about and during Sonic Weapons, where it's just like you're primed to hear something, and then you hear the thing, yeah, yeah. And then you're just like, that's what it is. Absolutely. Yeah, so and I think a lot of that happens with with a with some of this. Like if you're like out Bigfoot hunting and you hear like squatching. Yeah, if you're out squatching and you hear a like a branch fall, you're you're immediately like that. Was Bigfoot knocking on the trees because that's also like something tree knocks, tree, yeah. Like that, and it's like, are you sure? Like that's what you that's you're dying on this hill that like the branch that just fell down is is Bigfoot. Like it's tough sometimes to actually like I know we all want this to be real, and like again, I'm in the I don't know phase. I'm agnostic here because yeah, there's not enough evidence one way or the other, although I do tend to fall more on the side of weird giants existing.

Bobby 1:04:15

So yeah, there's there's certain like I like to entertain all these these possibilities, you know. And and one thing that I I've always looked at is just like look at a map of Canada. And like I think it's something like I don't know, like 90% of the population of Canada lives within 200 miles of the American border. And just the amount of vast, vast, vast wilderness up in northern Canada is insane. Like seriously, go look at a map. It'll blow your mind how big that country is and how much of it is theoretically uninhabited and wild out there. And so the possibility that something could be hiding out there seems open. And in in biologically, there are usually like weird variations of a species that already exists in the deep, deep ocean. But we are finding new species that does happen. I also thought that you know, species that have gone extinct, like a Neanderthal, that we know like was real, like there had to be one left at some point. You know, and though we have these these these Bigfoot sightings seem to endure and and and keep going and happening, but perhaps when they started, it was real and that it was just like the last one or two, you know, and then that was the end, and now what we're seeing is shysters, you know, like there may have been some sort of overlap with something at that point. And and we do know that like humans interacted and interbred with Neanderthals, so there's also a lot of historical Bigfoot stories um from long ago that have endured. Um so perhaps some of those were born from these actual scientifically proven things from long ago and just endured in myth.

Greg 1:05:51

And if we're gonna go the like ancient alien uh ass like road of everything. I love that road. Yeah, there is the Nephilim. Um and And we can talk about that in a future thing. Um, but the Nephilim were like the historical giants of the ancient world who like obviously like came from another world or interdimensionally and like used us and bred us to Dolce Tuttles. Yeah, to actually like mine gold for them and like be essentially we are a slave race to the Nephilim. But they were known. And if you look through like uh ancient records and through hieroglyphics, there are always these mentions and pictures of these giants, giants, and we're serving them. Um, and then to find and then they all left, and like there were great cataclysms. So, who's to say like what came before? And if a species like this didn't exist, or if they had the technology to then leave, or they all just died off. And when people do find these giant bones, and it's just like you have to start thinking about those stories as well, because it's a it's cross-cultural, it's not just like ancient Egypt, it's like in South America and in like what we consider now of uh like Asia, they're everywhere. Those stories exist in all of those realms as well. So it's like we like to think of it as mythology and like that never existed, just because we don't see it now doesn't mean it didn't, but our history only goes back so far. But the more we look and more we dig, we start finding things that are much older.

Michelle 1:07:17

Yeah.

Greg 1:07:17

And we have to start considering these older stories, even going back to like old uh like Native American myths and stories, like they sure passed things down verbally, they didn't write anything down, but they had to explain what things were in a story format in order for the the message and for that knowledge to be passed down. So when you hear stories of like, I don't know, dragons in the sky or like fire blasting a like who knows what they're talking about when they say these things. Um but the more we think about it and the more we can like use our brains to start attaching what we could possibly grasp. Like if you're in again, going back to the UFO thing, like we see UFOs in ancient like Renaissance paintings, but is that is that just them trying to explain a message as to like what this is, or is that like a literal there's a there's a guy and a star and he's shooting across the sky. That's way way more fun.

Michelle 1:08:18

Yeah, I think it's literal.

Greg 1:08:19

Yeah, so it's like we all like to have our ideas and like our thoughts as to what all these things actually mean, but yeah, it's it's fascinating.

Bobby 1:08:28

I did forget to mention there's a lot of people hang-ups on the way it walked. How's it supposed to walk, friend? Yeah, how's a bigfoot supposed to walk? If people are like, that's not how Bigfoot walks, you don't know. You don't know, dick about how Bigfoots walk.

Michelle 1:08:41

Those are my favorite type of guy of haters, you know, is the guy who's like, that's not how Bigfoot walks. Yeah.

Bobby 1:08:49

Yeah. So everyone's an expert. That said, if you've seen a Bigfoot, give us a call at the Strange Exchange 929-445-3705. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening.

Michelle 1:09:01

Yeah, or if you um if you have footage you want to talk about.

Bobby 1:09:05

Call up and describe the footage to us over the phone.

Michelle 1:09:09

That's right.

Bobby 1:09:10

That's right.

Michelle 1:09:10

That's what I want. Give it to me.

Bobby 1:09:12

DM us on Instagram if you got footage. Let us know. We want to see it. We want to fucking see it.

Michelle 1:09:17

We do send it to us.

Bobby 1:09:19

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I'm a believer.

Michelle 1:09:21

I think Bigfoot's real. I think the footage was real. I just want to put it out there. Everything is real, and you're welcome.

Bobby 1:09:27

The truth is out there.

Michelle 1:09:28

That's right. I want to believe. Goodbye.