014 BETTY AND BARNEY HILL - THEY TOOK HIM. THEY TOOK HER. THEY ERASED TWO HOURS.

Before Roswell became a household name and before alien abductions filled books and television screens, there was Betty and Barney Hill. Join the Henchmen this week as they investigate the UFO encounter that changed paranormal history forever. A strange craft. Missing time. Terrifying medical examinations. And a mystery that still refuses to die. Were Betty and Barney Hill the first true alien abductees or victims of a cover-up that continues to this day? Tune in to Find Out 

If you love abduction stories, you'll love Alien Lives Matter: It’s OK To Be Grey
By Timothy Green Beckley, Sean Casteel & 20+ Contributors. A Massive Endeavor! Nearly 600 Pages. Available now at www.conspiracyjournal.com and on amazon

Transcript

Reggie 0:14

The transmission started now. That's not it.

Michelle 0:19

No, that's the witch from The Wizard of Oz. It's not even the Benny Hill. Yeah. I'm leaving. Okay. Welcome to the Conspiracy Journal podcast. I'm Michelle.

Bobby 0:34

My name is Bob.

Michelle 0:37

What's your name?

unknown 0:38

Greg.

Michelle 0:39

Greg. Greg. Bobby and Michelle are here once again. And today we're starting with Betty and Barney Hill, the original, the OG, the abduction that started all abductions.

Bobby 0:53

Not to be confused with Benny Hill running around. That's not what he was running from.

Michelle 0:59

Maybe, maybe.

Bobby 1:00

The aliens were playing that music and chasing him around, and that's where that came from.

Michelle 1:03

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Betty and Barney had a baby named Benny. And this is mouthful. Yeah. And then this alien abduction is what created the music. Bang, bang, ba-ba-ba-bang.

Greg 1:16

I can imagine uh Benny Hill having a skit where he used that audio where he's getting chased by aliens.

Michelle 1:23

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I saw that in my mind. Okay, so do you guys want to hear about the first abduction to ever be abducted?

Bobby 1:31

I sure do. Yep. Absolutely. Okay, cool.

Michelle 1:34

Cool, cool, cool, cool. All right, so it is September 19th, 1961. And um actually, you know what? Hold on. Let me just tell you, first of all, this is the the first abduction. It has everything that we know about abduction stories, right? So it's like the first one we have a saucer-shaped UFO. Then we have what we know as the Grays. Betty and Barney are the first people to describe the like alien head shape and the big eyes and all of that. Also, anal probes. Like the story has everything. Yeah, yeah.

Greg 2:11

It's all the usual suspects of an alien abduction.

Michelle 2:14

But this is the first one. So like a lot of historical stuff.

Bobby 2:20

Exactly. We've entered the modern era of UFO abductions.

Michelle 2:24

So the reason not only is it the first one, but it has everything. Also, people in the 1960s were like, this blew their minds. You know, they had never heard of alien heads, UFOs, and anal probes before. You know, they were just like, what? So it was a big, big deal.

Greg 2:42

I think they called it buggery back in the day.

Michelle 2:45

Buggery. They're up to some, they're getting buggered. The pro the probe. The probe job.

Greg 2:49

Yeah, the anal probes. Okay.

Michelle 2:50

All right. Well, whatever you want to call it.

Greg 2:52

I think that's what uh no, never mind.

Michelle 2:54

I mean, some people call it rape, right? It's more you want to call it. Yeah, sure.

Bobby 2:59

Yeah.

Michelle 3:00

Okay. So let's meet Betty and Barney, shall we?

unknown 3:04

Betty and bugger.

Michelle 3:07

Okay, Barney. Born in 1922. Super smart dude. IQ 140. Me? Super dumb. I don't even know what that means. 140 sounds like a big number. Get it, Barney. He's super smart. He wants to be an engineer. He wants to go to college and be an engineer, but society told him, no, Barney, you're a black man. You can't go to school. You gotta go to the army. So he goes to the army. He's a marksman. He got injured in World War II. So he comes back to the States and gets a job at the post office. And he's like really good postal worker. That's his solid ass job. He does that for years. He gets a family. He gets a wife, a couple kids. He lives in Pennsylvania somewhere. Him and his family, I think his family's there. They go on vacation to New Hampshire and they meet Betty. Betty's a babe.

Bobby 3:55

She's with his right his regular family and he goes on vacation. Okay, okay. I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Yeah. Also known as a dream vacation. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle 4:06

So he's on vacation in New Hampshire. They meet Betty. Betty's like, dude, I own this house here on the beach somewhere. If you and your family ever want to come back, rent my house for the summer. And he's like, cool, you got it. Then he gets divorced and leaves his family and moves to New Hampshire and starts a relationship with Benny. Betty. Damn. How many times am I gonna call one of them Benny?

Bobby 4:30

Do you think you had those designs on this from like the moment he met her?

Michelle 4:34

Um, I'm gonna say that Barney was like a pretty solid dude. I'm gonna say no, this was circumstance, but you know his like reptilial male mind totally did.

Bobby 4:45

Do you think he just happened to move to this place in New Hampshire after he got divorced, or do you think he had he had some designs on Betty?

Michelle 4:53

I think he had some designs on Betty. That's that's how it's my heart. That's how it feels to me. Yeah, my heart says that he was a little bit in love. Yeah. And he um anyway, listen, that's not why we're here. Okay. All right.

Greg 5:05

Oh, real quick. Uh, how old was he at this point?

Michelle 5:08

Um, that's a great question.

Greg 5:11

Okay, sorry. Cut those out.

Michelle 5:14

No, no, no, we don't have to cut it out. So, I mean, when he meets Betty and he still has his other family, I'm not sure. He's like 30 something. The year that all this shit goes down, he is 39. Okay, okay. Okay. Gotcha. All right. Other thing to note is Betty and Barney never have any kids of their own. But Barney did have a couple kids with his ex-wife. So one of those babies had a baby, and she is the UFC straw weight champion. I don't know if she's a champion, but she's a UFC straw weight fighter. Her name is Angela Hill. She's 5'3, 115 pounds, and she will beat you up. She is cute and she is scrappy.

SPEAKER_04 5:55

Scrappy.

Michelle 5:55

Yeah, scrappy little straw weight lady. So yeah. What else do we know about Barney? He's 39, lives in Pennsylvania, goes to New England. Oh, yeah. Okay. Something I didn't mention is Betty lives up in like the New England area, which is like super white. Betty's white. Barney's black. This is bad.

Greg 6:16

Because especially at that time, too.

Michelle 6:18

At this time, the city is a very good thing. Everything was kind of heating up. The civil rights move movement is popping off. Being an interracial couple is controversial, period. But in this section of New England, it was most likely a very tough life for them. But they were very well educated and very involved. So Barney is in the NAACP. He's like really into civil rights activism. He gets into politics. She gets in the politics. Like they are fighting the good fight. They're involved with making change and they're respected. But I didn't come across anything that said that they had problems, but I can't imagine that it was an easy place for them to live.

Greg 7:02

No, I think too, like anyone that lived during that time, if you especially if you were an interracial couple, like you kind of had to be political just because the world made your relationship political. Yeah. So you had to be involved in some way or another.

Michelle 7:16

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so let's meet Betty. When this goes down, she is 42 years old. So she's a little bit older than Barney. We like that. It's the 1960s, right? She's educated, she has a good job, she owns homes and does real estate stuff, at least a little bit. That made her unique, you know. She wasn't just a housewife. She was she was smart, she spoke her mind, she was a social worker, so she was also like helping people. I think she had a lot of training and psychology, but she was also very interested in UFOs. So like her sister saw a UFO, and I think that popped Betty off into like thinking about stuff like that. So she has read some UFO stuff. Whereas Barney is like, no, we don't believe in UFOs. That's crazy. You're nuts, also. Barney will shut her down.

Greg 8:11

But he's sort of like in the crazy chicks.

Michelle 8:15

I mean, yes, clearly, but also, even though she's like a strong independent woman, he is very much like in charge of their relationship. Like what he says goes. Okay, you know?

Greg 8:27

I can imagine like it's a healthy relationship if like they can test each other. Like if someone has a wild idea and the other one's like, all right, well, we're gonna talk about this now. And I'm sure it was probably something like that. When it came to this topic, maybe?

Michelle 8:39

Uh, maybe. I'm not sure. I mean, the vibe that I caught in some of this stuff was like if Betty started asking questions and Barney was like, we're not talking about this anymore, then she would not talk about it. Gotcha. Um until she would, you know? So they are in a relationship now, and they get married, and they're living in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and they have a cute little dash hound dog named Dulce. And I just like scrunch my face up because it's so cute, dog. Um, and they take a vacation. All three of them, Betty, Barney, and Dulcie, go to Niagara Falls, and then they they go to the Canadian side, so they pop around Montreal, they're having a blast. Then they find out that there's a hurricane or some kind of bad storm is coming, so they decide to dip out early and they're gonna drive all the way back to New Hampshire. They should be there, you know, by the end of the night. So they start driving. They get to the Lancaster area, and Betty's looking out the window, and she sees a star that she she thinks it's a star. Then she thinks it's um maybe shooting stars. She's seeing some shit up in the sky, and she's like, What is that? And Barney's like, it's a satellite, duh. And she's like, it's not behaving like a satellite. Oh, can I just say by the way, that one of the most incredible things about this story is you can find and watch audio and video of Betty and Barney telling this story. Oh, yeah.

Greg 10:12

So it's really a lot of our stories, like they're usually, I don't know, left behind closed doors type of things. And like, or it's like it's too long ago that like there's maybe only like rough audio recordings of people. This was like very much in a time when, like, oh, we'll be on the news about this.

Michelle 10:28

Yeah, totally. It's very well documented. There's a lot of photos of the two of them, and there is hours and hours of recording, again, both audio and video. So you can get this right from them. Um, I feel like this is the first time I've ever been able to say, and then Barney said this and feel really good that Barney actually indeed did say that, you know. So Barney's like, it's a satellite. Betty's like, it's not behaving like a satellite, and then sidebar, how the fuck do I know? Like, I couldn't look at the sky and be like, oh, that's a satellite. I don't know. Do you guys know the difference? Like, if you're looking up at the sky, can you point out satellites easily?

Bobby 11:06

Well, I mean, I know that that's what everybody says every time you see something way up flying across the sky, people are always like, oh, that's a satellite.

Greg 11:13

But uh like people like more recently, because there's so many satellites, right, especially with Starlink, like there'll be like a strip of lights in the sky, and they're like, oh my god, a UFO, but it's like, no, that like they're just like the newly launched Starlink stuff.

Bobby 11:26

They move at a much different speed than an airplane. So it is so it is very apparent when you see one that it's not an airplane.

Michelle 11:33

Okay, fine.

Bobby 11:33

Yeah, so it is easy to differentiate between an an airplane and a satellite. Yeah. Okay, fine.

Greg 11:38

And maybe back then too, like there was like way less space junk up there. So if there was something moving like that you wouldn't normally see in the sky, like it might be easier to pick out just because there isn't a lot up there at the point at that point. Yeah, fair.

Bobby 11:51

But also, I mean, I do imagine that that might be quite what a UFO looks like. A distant UFO. Uh travel to the sky probably looks pretty similar to the the travel of a satellite.

Michelle 12:02

Absolutely. I I believe that to be true.

Bobby 12:05

Yeah, yeah. Skeptics love to just throw the satellite out there. Anytime you see something in the sky, oh, it's a satellite.

Greg 12:10

Like when you think of two, like there are some videos out there where there are UFOs around just the moon. Right. And it's like hyper zoomed in. Yeah. And it's still pretty small, and like you don't really understand what it is until like it vanishes into the moon.

Michelle 12:24

Right.

Greg 12:24

But like to the secret base. Yeah, exactly. Because the moon is hollow. Okay. If you're just like trying to spot something in the sky, like it could be a UFO, it could be a satellite, like there could be many different options as to what that could be, or just a few options.

Bobby 12:39

This is also this is like classic gender roles, though.

Michelle 12:42

Oh, yeah.

Bobby 12:42

He definitely like just really dismissing anything sensational, you know. Yeah.

Michelle 12:48

I mean, that's the vibe that I got from him on all the stuff that I watched of them interacting together.

Bobby 12:54

I'm gonna explain this.

Michelle 12:55

He's like, it's a satellite, just like women. Swamp gas. You know? Am I right?

Bobby 13:01

Swamp gas later.

Michelle 13:04

Okay, so Betty though is like, no, it's not, it's not behaving like a satellite. And Barney's like, I know what it is. If it's not a satellite, is definitely the Air Force is playing games with us.

Greg 13:16

Them specifically.

Michelle 13:18

Yeah, well, you know, they do they play in games again. You know what though, at the time, figure it's 1960s, interracial couple. Like uh he was in the service before. Like, I don't think that that's so crazy to think the police or the military or someone is just like messing around with him. I don't I don't know. You guys are looking at me like I know.

Greg 13:44

But you know, look. Yeah, we know where he's at right now. Yeah, put something up there. Yeah, let's see what happens.

Michelle 13:50

Uh so he says the Air Force is playing games with us, which is not crazy. Whatever you guys say, it's not crazy. But then he all right, so they stop, he decides it's the Air Force, or whatever he decides. They get back in the car.

Bobby 14:09

Oh, I thought it was a satellite, Barney.

Michelle 14:11

Yeah, but it wasn't behaving like that.

Bobby 14:13

I know now he's like, oh, it must be the Air Force. Yeah.

Michelle 14:15

Well, it started bouncing around. Uh, I think it was Betty described it like a ping-pong ball.

Bobby 14:21

I get it though. I mean, this is also this is this is normal human behavior. Yeah. We're gonna try to fit it into the context that we have, into things that we understand and know. Absolutely.

Michelle 14:33

They get back on the road. Betty says it's about 30 miles later. They're in an area of uh the White Mountains called Indian Head, and she's like, it's for sure following us, bro.

Bobby 14:47

Beautiful area, by the way.

Michelle 14:48

Yeah, I know. Yeah, she's like, it's for sure following us, and Barney is like dismissive, dismissive, dismissive. And I can only assume that Delcie is like bark, bark, bark, bark, bark. And then it goes.

Bobby 15:02

How the dog talk again?

Michelle 15:03

Oh, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark. You know, he's a little rascal. So then the object comes like up over the mountains in front of them and is like a hundred feet above them in like coming down to almost ground level.

Bobby 15:21

Going down on them.

unknown 15:22

It's good.

Michelle 15:24

Uh the way Betty describes it is it left the top of the mountain and came over the highway and stopped mid-air on the highway right in front of us. The object, a metallic disc, the width and length of a commercial airliner flat as a pancake, hovering over the road.

Greg 15:46

Cool. Yeah, I want to see that. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle 15:49

So Barney stops the car and he's like, I'm gonna go check this out. Betty, dog, you guys stay in the car.

Bobby 15:55

He's like, Hey, Air Force, quit messing around.

Michelle 15:57

Yeah, that's right. So he says, and this is quoted from him I walk about 100 feet into the field. The craft is right above me, about another hundred feet. That's 10 stories. Okay. Pause. Everybody's always talking about distance and shit. And I like couldn't even, I can't. What? What is 10 stories, bro? I mean, I guess I know what that is.

Greg 16:22

It's a hundred feet. About a hundred feet.

Michelle 16:25

But like, if something was in the sky, I like, I guess. I mean, that I'm looking up at the light, that's eight feet away from that.

Bobby 16:31

No, you just have to you just have to say it with confidence, is the difference. He has no idea how far it actually is away.

Michelle 16:36

Right, that's what I think.

Bobby 16:37

He's guessing, but he's guessing with confidence.

Michelle 16:39

Okay, all right. Yeah, fine. It it sounds close though, sounds really close. So he has binoculars. I don't know why, but he has binoculars, and so he's looking. And he says that he can see like windows and that there's people in there, humanoid type people in there. He doesn't know about aliens yet, right? Because he's the first one to discover grace. So, like, he doesn't know. So he's these nine to eleven men looking through a series of windows down at him. All of them except one leave the window and they go, I guess, into the background a little bit.

Bobby 17:13

Yeah.

Michelle 17:14

And they start pulling levers and shit.

Bobby 17:16

They're like, we're gonna get them.

Greg 17:17

Let's see if we can get this guy. So so the bottom opens up and it's just a big skill crane, like the claw from those.

Michelle 17:27

It drops them a few times before it actually gets up. All right, you guys, that's almost what happens. Okay, so what happens? The aliens are pulling some levers and hitting some fucking buttons and whatever, and out of the sides of the saucer come what they describe as fins with red lights on the ends of them. So those are starting to protrude out the sides. Then a fucking hole opens in the middle and a fucking ladder or ramp starts coming down. Barney loses his shit. This is his line. We all have one. He just found his. He's like, fucking feet don't fail me now. He fucking takes off, gets in the car. He says, What do you quote? Boop, boop, boop. Let me go through my things. What does he say? Uh oh, Betty, this is gonna capture us. And so he fucking hightails it out of there because he doesn't want to get captured. So they're going.

Bobby 18:22

They're driving at this point.

Michelle 18:23

They're driving.

Bobby 18:24

And he's still holding up the binoculars.

Michelle 18:26

No, actually, the binoculars broke. He throws them in the back.

Bobby 18:30

He's like broke?

Michelle 18:31

Yeah, his little strap broke.

Bobby 18:33

Okay, okay.

Michelle 18:33

He finds out later in hypnosis how his strap broke. He broke it when he was running back to the car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just didn't remember breaking it. It's fine. It's fine. Um, so they run. Betty turns to him and says, Do you believe in flying saucers now?

Bobby 18:50

Yeah, dude. Oh, in your fucking face. Your mouth asshole. This is so glad this tells you a little bit about their relationship as well. That, like, in the middle of this, she's like, I'm gonna fucking zing his ass.

Michelle 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Immediately he was just like, so she got in touch with the Air Force. That's what's happening. You believe me now, you motherfucker.

Michelle 19:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you know what he says? Don't be ridiculous, Betty. Of course I don't. Even though he just saw that, he's doubling down. He fucking does not believe, even though he just saw it.

Greg 19:22

And well, he's probably trying to think of like I'm not trying to justify his behavior by any means, but like he's probably still trying to rationalize that it was something not alien related.

Bobby 19:33

What year is this?

Michelle 19:34

1961.

Bobby 19:35

Oh maybe Cold War. He's like, this is Russia.

Michelle 19:38

Yeah, maybe.

Bobby 19:39

Yeah, he's like, they're trying to the Russians are trying to capture us. Probably, yeah. Yeah.

Michelle 19:42

Kami bastards. Yep. So they barely talk on the ride home. They get home just about daybreak. Betty notices that her dress is ripped and she's like, bummer. I like this dress. Should I throw it out? Nah. I'm gonna put it in my closet. Something says keep it. So she puts it in her closet. And then the next day, she calls her sister and she's like, dude, we saw a UFO for sure. And her sister's like, oh, sick. And her sister, but Betty's like, I think we might be contaminated. Betty's sister is like, oh, dude, my neighbor's a physicist. Let me call him. So she does. And the physicist is like, if you have a compass, take it out, put it around your body, put it around your car, see if it tweaks anywhere. And it does. So on the back of their car, they have perfect circular marks that are shiny and weird. They say that they were not there before. And the compass, when they put it next to it, it goes crazy. So there's something magnetic, crazy circles on the back of their car.

Greg 20:49

I'm curious how, like, uh, even the physicists like, oh, yeah, I understand UFOs, and just take out your compass, and like that will like tell us exactly what we need to know.

Michelle 20:59

Like it's very suspicious. I think that physicist knew a thing or two about UFOs. I think that's the answer.

Bobby 21:05

Maybe. Was it more with the I mean, were they asking about exposure exposure to radiation? They don't know.

Michelle 21:11

This is some alien shit. They don't know. Betty's just like, I'm contaminated.

Bobby 21:14

Maybe, yeah. I mean, that's a pretty specific word though. And maybe that I'm just saying maybe that's where the physicist was coming from that angle. Yeah, probably. From a radiation angle.

Michelle 21:23

Yeah. I mean, he was probably like, I don't have nobody has like a Geiger counter. So Yeah.

Bobby 21:28

I just remember from the the Pascagoula incident that they were tested for radiation as well. So it's a a general concern. Yeah. Apparently. Yeah. With you with you of course.

Michelle 21:38

Yeah, I'd be concerned that I was like, we've been irradiated. Yeah, yeah. I'd be concerned about radiation.

Bobby 21:43

I wouldn't.

Michelle 21:46

No, why not?

Bobby 21:47

There's a lot of other shit I'd be worried about way before radiation. Yeah, that's pretty far down my list. Uh, if I'm concerned about it. What's number one?

Michelle 21:55

Is it the anal rate?

Bobby 21:56

Uh excuse me, the buggery. Isn't the term of the alien buggery. I think uh you know, I'm I mean I would approach that like Christopher Walken in communion. It's like, hey, can we talk about this first? You're not gonna buy me dinner.

Michelle 22:11

Classic scene.

Bobby 22:12

Yeah. You know, so I mean, if they approach me the right way, you know, it's fine.

Michelle 22:18

So what's your concern? If it's not butt stuff and it's not radiation, what are you concerned about?

Bobby 22:22

I mean, I think the fact that I had an alien encounter.

Michelle 22:23

Yeah, I was gonna say just like the psychology, just the idea of it happening at all is a very important thing.

Bobby 22:27

Yeah, that I'm extraterrestrial. Right, right. No one's gonna believe you. That part is kind of a big deal to me.

Michelle 22:34

Yeah.

Bobby 22:34

Yeah.

Michelle 22:35

Dude, uh so I was watching a lot of documentaries lately. A lot, I've been watching a lot of alien alien abduction stuff, and you know, this man says something that was like really, I think, valid, right? So if someone commits murder, let's say, on the street, somebody just shoots somebody on the street and you see it. There's no other evidence that this man did this except your eyewitness account. That man is most likely going to go to jail for the rest of his life because you saw him murder this other man. I don't know why everyone's a man, but they are. And so we as a society have laws even built around eyewitness testimony, and we believe people when they say they saw something. Unless it's an alien, then we do not believe them.

Greg 23:19

Yeah, it's just like well, even eyewitness test. Well, we don't have to get into that. It's like the least reliable source of evidence. Yeah, and you for a long time though, we we really relied on it heavily. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like go back to the sound witch trials. And it's just like you just started pointing fingers and it's like, well, I think maybe we should put a system in place where we need a little bit more evidence than just someone saying something.

Bobby 23:40

We do love a culture that a lot of local news channels is like eyewitness news. That's true. Yeah, channel seven, eyewitness news. Yeah, yeah.

Greg 23:48

We love we love an eyewitness, but yeah, when it comes to things that maybe are a little more fringe, we uh immediately don't believe it. Right. Because we've never seen it, so it must not exist.

Michelle 23:58

So yeah.

Greg 23:59

Yeah.

Michelle 24:00

All right, so compass goes crazy. Betty, she's like, I don't know what to do. So where does she head? The local library. And she's like, I need more information. So she ends up checking out a book called A Flying Saucer Conspiracy by retired Marine Corps major Donald Kehoe. Betty writes to Keho and NICAP comes out and investigates. So NICAP is the National Investigation Committee of Aerial Phenomenon. It's a citizen organization. And in the 1950s and 60s, especially, there weren't a lot of these like UFO organizations. So they were at this time the only place that was like a legit organization that had nothing but scientists and ex or active military, um, especially Air Force people, and did I say scientists already? Mathematicians, medical professionals. They had them all. And they were investigating UFOs. And so they come out, they investigate the hills. Also to note, Project Blue Book was happening at this time, and they also did send someone. Project Blue Book is like the government's, I think it was the Air Force's, like actual people who came and investigated UFOs. And they eventually did release those documents and stuff. So they were active at that time. They did come and talk to the Hills. But I mean, uh in government fashion, they were like kind of bullshit. And also they did say that like they found the Hills to be credible, but within the range of like human eyewitness, you know, like measurements and stuff like that, like the normal stuff that people get wrong.

Greg 25:46

You know, this was Yeah, there's a level of like fallacy there that they take into account.

Michelle 25:51

Exactly. And so they said that the hills fell into all of the the like range uh that keeps you credible. They they fell into that range. So they were credible, but they were like, I think they came away with saying like uh it was they probably saw Jupiter, you know?

unknown 26:08

Okay.

Michelle 26:09

That's like not even a lie. That's what the document said.

Greg 26:11

Oh, right. I think like in the story, it was like, yeah, like where like they were on the highway, it was just like just coming up over the horizon or something.

Michelle 26:18

That's totally Jupiter. Yeah.

Greg 26:19

Oh, yeah, it's just a planet that's ping-ponging across the sky and lands in front of you. Totally. But that's a planet. It's Jupiter.

Michelle 26:27

So during the NICAP investigation, because they actually do come back more than once, they do a lot of talking with the hills. They also do a thing where they they separate them and they keep asking the same questions in different ways to see just to make sure that everything lines up. It's got fuck them up.

Greg 26:47

See if the story is.

Michelle 26:48

They were trying to fuck them up, they never fuck them up because they're not lying. One of the other things is like Monica Lewinsky style, Betty kept that dress. So over the years.

Greg 26:58

It's so funny. As soon as you said she's she kept the dress, I was like, Monica Lewinsky. Like, I don't know why. It was the first thing that came to my head.

Michelle 27:06

Um, so that dress has been tested many times over the years, and they have found a lot of like organic material, and like apparently there was a mysterious pink powder on it, but it flew away in the wind. I don't know. The dress has its own story, so I didn't go too deep on the dress. The other thing that they found was Barney's shoes were scuffed on the top as if he was dragged. And that really creeped me out. I really didn't like that. And then their watches stopped and never worked again.

Greg 27:40

What timer are they stopped at? I don't know. Maybe 4:20. Hell yeah, bruh.

Michelle 27:46

Obviously it's 4 20. Oh, oh yeah. They uh Nightcap investigates those marks on the car. You know what nobody ever comes back to though is the dog. Nobody asks what happened to the dog. You know, what did the dog see? Did the dog get butt stuffed onto it? I really want to know what happened to the dog, but nobody will tell me.

Bobby 28:06

Well, I mean, sorry if I'm jumping at. Do we know we don't know. What do we know what happened to Betty and Barney?

Michelle 28:12

We're getting there.

Bobby 28:13

Okay.

Michelle 28:13

Well, I mean, you Well, I mean, I told you everything I know so far.

unknown 28:16

Okay.

Michelle 28:17

Okay. Okay.

Greg 28:18

But the dog's not missing. The dog was still there.

Michelle 28:20

No, the dog's there, but like they they do this whole big investigation, but like no one ever mentions the dog again. And I just uh I'm just worried. Yeah. Worried about the dog, but it goes nowhere.

Bobby 28:31

Is there sorry, and again, if I'm is there an abduction? There's an abduction in this story, right?

Michelle 28:37

Well, yeah, you just hang tight, buddy.

Bobby 28:39

Well, I mean, we I mean we've we're post-encounter, so I thought maybe I missed that part, okay?

Michelle 28:45

It's a very good question. All will be revealed in good time.

Bobby 28:49

Okay.

Michelle 28:50

Okay. Yeah, it's coming.

Greg 28:52

They don't remember.

Michelle 28:52

NICAP, while they're doing this really deep dive, except for the dog, they discover that Betty and Barney are missing two hours. Okay, Bobby? You ready to get abducted? Because it's during the missing two hours.

Bobby 29:07

I've been ready. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Just tell me about the abduction.

Bobby 29:12

Let's go.

Michelle 29:13

So they've already been going, they've been living their life for months, right? They didn't even know they were missing two hours. NICAP, dude, is like, dude, where'd these two hours go? Betty and Barney are like, what? Barney has to go to a psychiatrist. Like, this fucks him up. He can't comprehend this. And so everyone at this point is calling it shared amnesia. And he is just like, he can't, his brain can't handle this. And so he's like, we're leaving this alone. We're never talking about this again. And Betty will not leave it alone. Two years go by, and she's still like at the library doing fucking research. She's writing to people, she's doing all kinds of shit. Blah blah blah. Bobby's getting impatient, so I'll skip ahead a little bit.

Bobby 29:59

Thanks, Bobby.

Michelle 30:01

She finds.

Bobby 30:02

Where I'm the audience. We're here for the thing. Okay, all right. I'm getting there. I'm getting there.

Michelle 30:06

Okay, okay. Yeah. All right. So I don't know how to be a storyteller. Okay, so I'm just telling you like the way it went.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Sure, yeah.

Greg 30:13

I mean, this is the best way to tell stories.

Michelle 30:15

Yeah, like the way it happened.

Greg 30:17

We're just sitting around explaining these things to each other.

Michelle 30:20

So they go to Dr. Benjamin Simon in Boston for regressive hypnosis therapy. Now con artist. I don't know. I mean, I I believe it because I listened to a lot of it. So online, you can find so much of the audio. You can find their entire hypnosis tapes online. They are terrifying. Um, it's very funny though, because Barney is like such a skeptic that like he does that thing in the beginning. Uh the little bit I know about hypnosis is it takes a while for the hypnotist to be able to get you to be hypnotized.

Bobby 31:02

Like get you in the zone. Have either of you ever been hypnotized?

Michelle 31:05

No, I just remember from seeing this on Sally Jesse Raphael in the 1990s. They explained it and that they didn't just randomly pick people out of the audience, like they had to be uh eligible, and then they had to like have a bunch of sessions before they could be hypnotized.

Bobby 31:22

Okay.

Greg 31:22

Yeah, there's a there's a part of hypnosis where you have to kind of be a participant in it. It's hard to hypnotize somebody who doesn't want it or know that they're being hypnotized.

Bobby 31:32

I remember I've seen a few times I've seen people get hypnotized at like a state fair. Do you think that's a plant in the audience? It could be. Definitely.

Michelle 31:40

I think I think you did not see a person get hypnotized. I think it's almost impossible to like immediately hypnotize someone.

Greg 31:47

From the little amounts that I know, there is a level of it in like your own brain that like you know that you're participating in this. You're just like the the hypnotist is allowing you to like drop your guard and like do these things. Yeah. And it's just like you're the it's he this person's giving you permission to do the thing that like might seem awkward or weird, but like that's again my very limited understanding of how it works.

Bobby 32:11

If you're out there listening and you don't like how my colleagues are disparaging the art of hypnosis and you think you could hypnotize one of us, give us a shout. Yeah. And uh, and we'll be we'll be down. We'll check it out. We'll drop we'll drop a phone number at the end of the episode. So hit us up if you think you can hypnotize these skeptics.

Greg 32:27

Well, I know that like uh it's it's a deeper conversation, but like this also went into back into MKUltra. And like they would hunt for people that like were more susceptible to these types of things rather than just like, oh, this will just work on anybody. Sure. Like there are specific types of people that it works better on for sure.

Bobby 32:44

Yeah, definitely. I it does seem like a thing that you people who aren't open to the possibility of hypnosis, it seems like would be much more difficult to hypnotize.

Michelle 32:54

I don't think so, actually. I don't think it has anything to do with being a skeptic. I think it has to almost the way I think about it is being like gullible. If you're more gullible, a little more naive.

Bobby 33:07

I guess I I guess I'm saying that people aren't open to hypnosis or generally not gullible or naive people. They're like hard hard liners anti is the place that I'm it's not gonna work on me.

Greg 33:19

No, never gonna work.

Bobby 33:20

Very skeptical of everything, you know, those types of people. They're like, it's a satellite, you know?

Greg 33:25

Well, they're the people that are getting abducted.

Bobby 33:28

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Michelle 33:29

Yeah. Well, speaking of it's a satellite, Barney was like one of these people that went and did like a session or whatever and was like, see, hypnosis doesn't work on me. And then the doctor is like, actually, you've been hypnotized for like four hours, bro. You've been you've been doing all kinds of weird shit in here.

Bobby 33:44

That seems that's like the arc of this story is like we they're trying to capture us, and like they didn't capture us. It's like, well, matter of fact.

Michelle 33:52

Well, yeah, um, yeah. So uh all of this stuff, again, you can go online and you can listen to a lot of the the tapes from their actual sessions. Betty's niece, Kathleen Mardin, also like wrote a book, wrote multiple books, and has like dedicated her life to this telling this story. So there is a lot of information that like her as like the family has made available. So you can listen and and watch a lot of this stuff. So let's get into it. Under hypnosis, oh actually, by the way, she's got the niece, she's kind of like a babe, and she's got this really sorry, Kathleen, it's like really long, drawn out, like PowerPoint presentation YouTube video. But if you want any of the information, it's in that like sufferingly long video.

unknown 34:45

Okay.

Greg 34:46

Do you know the name of that video? No, dude.

Michelle 34:49

Okay, it's out there. I just it's definitely there. Just like go go to YouTube, put Kathleen Martin, Betty and Barney, and it'll be the first thing that comes up. Yeah, it's a long dog. It's it's tough. Okay, so under hypnosis, Barney says after so as soon as he can't remember, right? Like he gets in the car and they start driving. And remember, I said it was like really quiet, they drive home, all's good. Turns out he was compelled to drive down some dirt road, and at the end of the dirt road is a very bright light on the road, level with the road. Betty says something like, It's the moon is on the ground, like that's how big, bright, white light right there in front of them.

Bobby 35:36

Just a Dunkin' Donuts. This is coming out during hypnosis that this happened. Yes, okay.

Michelle 35:41

Barney wasn't familiar with the word or the terminology or the he didn't know what telepathy was.

Bobby 35:48

Idiot.

Michelle 35:50

Yeah, have that 140 IQ doing for you now, buddy. Um, but he so during his hypnosis, he's trying to explain that the alien is telling him stuff, but he like can't explain how how he's getting that information. Um, so like, long story short, the aliens are telepathically telling him that everything is fine. Just like come on over to our spaceship. And so they have candy, yeah. So Betty, though, is tripping. She's like, fuck it, no way. We're not going in there. And Barney's like, it's fine, come on. And she's like, I don't want to. And she starts fighting. She says she even kicked one of them. Ooh. Get it, Betty.

Bobby 36:34

Are they sorry? Uh, do we know? Are they are they inside the spaceship or the aliens came down the ladder ramp and they're like outside having like a rumble, like that Michael Jackson video?

Michelle 36:46

Aliens are outside. Betty and Barney get out of the car, they're walking toward the spaceship. Barney's like, it's chill, but he's also kind of like in a trance-like space.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

Sure, yeah, yeah. You can imagine that.

Michelle 36:55

Yeah, and so Betty is like, nah. And like also PS, maybe his, maybe he's not even walking because like he's got those scrapes on his shoes. So, like, yeah, maybe he's being invisibly dragged by the alien guys. That's how I picture it. So Betty's like, nah. She kicks him. I envision this happening on the ramp, okay. You know, because they're they're in. Now they're in. Betty says she is in like a type of examination room, and they take Barney into a separate room. Betty is told to lay flat on her stomach, and they take some sort of device and they run it up her spine. And then they took like on the outside of her body. Outside of her body. Okay. Yep. They're they're testing her spine.

Greg 37:38

Okay.

Michelle 37:38

I hate this, dude. I hate this so much. I'm even sure.

Greg 37:42

Yeah, I'm all about having aliens giving me a back massage.

Michelle 37:45

I I don't think it was a back massage though, Greg.

Greg 37:48

They're just rubbing stones on her back and stuff.

Michelle 37:50

Scan me, bro. Was it a scary?

Bobby 37:52

Intergalactic chiropractor.

Michelle 37:53

It's so scary. What are you gonna do? Are you gonna shove something in my fucking spine and paralyze me right now? Like, what are you gonna do to me? So, um, she's tweaking out. They telepathically tell her that everything is fine. None of this is gonna hurt. You're gonna be fine. We just need to do a couple of quick tests. That's what they always say. Just a couple of quick tests. And so they took, uh, she said they were really interested in her skin. And so they took samples of her skin. Then they roll her over. And this part in the tapes, she is freaking out. It's gut-wrenching to listen to her experience this. She says that the biggest needle she's ever seen comes out and they stick it in her navel. And she's just screaming, Why are you sticking this in my navel? And they tell her telepathically that um it was a pregnancy test.

Greg 38:50

Okay. It's an in-pregnancy test.

Michelle 38:52

Well, they just killed it if there was anything in there.

Greg 38:54

It's I think they're putting something in there.

Michelle 38:56

Or did they put yeah, whatever happened, that's not the way we normally do it.

Bobby 39:01

And we're about to fill it up. It's so gross.

Greg 39:07

I don't know why that bothered me so much. Really got you there.

Michelle 39:11

You found Greg's line. Everybody's going.

Bobby 39:16

All right. So meanwhile. It's fine with the dog in the bath, but yeah, stop saying that.

Michelle 39:21

I didn't know. My innocent brain didn't know about that. So anyway, Barney, meanwhile, next door. Barney's getting his own examination. So they said Barney says that they were really interested in his muscles.

Bobby 39:34

So guys, I'm like super strong. So, you know, they really spent a lot of time on my uh buys and tries and my lats.

Michelle 39:43

That's right. The fucking aliens got two tickets to the gun show and they're using them to take samples.

Bobby 39:49

Telepathically, and they're like, you definitely don't skip leg day. Like, tell me about your routine. What are you into?

Greg 39:55

Yeah, because they're all like thin and spindly.

Bobby 39:57

They want to figure out how to get buffed. Yeah, do you take supplements? Is this natural, Barney? You know, do you take creatine? What's going on?

Michelle 40:05

Sure. That's that's exactly what happened.

Bobby 40:07

You're a variant to his muscles.

Michelle 40:08

Yeah, that's what happened. They also run something down his spine, vertebrae by vertebrae.

Bobby 40:16

Michelle really has an aversion to people touching their spine. A lot of spine.

Michelle 40:20

Don't touch my spine. Phobias. Yeah. I do have a vertebrae on my mantle, but it's not mine.

Bobby 40:29

Oh, I'm happy to hear that. No, no elaboration necessary there.

Michelle 40:35

Nope. You're welcome. Okay, so this next part in Barney's exam, I have quoted from the niece that we talked about earlier. So she does a lot of shows and shit. And so I just kind of love the way that she explained this. So I'm gonna take it right from her mouth. Okay. Something slid very easily into his rectum and then was very rapidly removed. It wasn't painful, and then sort of a cup-like device was placed over his genitals. Okay. Apparently, a sperm sample was taken. You're welcome.

Bobby 41:09

I'm sorry, I just like couldn't help but think like the rapid removal that there was like a pop pop stone of one of those. Yeah, thank you. I couldn't, I couldn't I fail to do the proper sound effect. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle 41:29

I will never hear that sound again with all thinking about Barney Hill's butt.

Bobby 41:34

It's nice that they lubed him up though. You know?

Michelle 41:36

Yeah, apparently. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. Yep, and then I guess sucked.

Greg 41:44

All sorts of things are happening on this ship.

Michelle 41:46

Suck the nut out.

Bobby 41:48

Suck the nut out. That's that's not what they said. That's not even what you said. You said they took a sperm sample.

Greg 41:58

But how else are they getting it?

Bobby 42:00

Yeah, you know. I thought they might use their impregnation needle.

Greg 42:04

Well, maybe they were just bumping his uh prostate to get it out.

Michelle 42:09

It was just like So the way I understand it is the cup-like thing they put on his balls is how they got this firm sample.

Greg 42:17

That's yeah, that's probably it's just like directly out of the ball.

Michelle 42:22

Yeah, they suck the nut out. That's what I'm saying. See?

Bobby 42:25

They did the the the cut, the nut the nut sucker with the cup. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. The nutsucker 5,000.

Greg 42:32

All of this sounds like a good time. I don't know why anyone would be upset about this. You're getting a back massage, you're getting your nut sucked out. I don't know.

Bobby 42:42

You sometimes you gotta pay for this shit. Be a little prostate stimmy.

Michelle 42:45

Yeah. Good point. Good point. All right. Well, I mean, that's what else do you want me to say? That's those were all the notes I took from the abduction because that's all I cared about. Yeah. That's right. So some of the the quotes, besides Barney, uh, I mean, besides Betty flipping out about the needle and the navel being like gut-wrenching and really difficult to listen to, there's some really difficult to listen to clips of Barney as well talking about the alien's eyes. He's just like literally screaming, ah, the eyes, they're in my brain. And it's so like, I don't know, it's like listening to a 9-1-1 call or something. You know how sometimes it just like gets in you and you feel, I don't know, scared and upset like with these people. That's how I felt listening to Barney scream about the eyes. Um, he also says, All the eyes, they're just so close to me. The eyes are pressing against my eyes. And I was like, Whoa. That's too much for my fucking stoner brain to really like take in. That's why it's scary, Greg. This is not a good time. You got scary eyes inside your eyes, you know. I don't like this. I don't like it. But they describe the aliens while they're under hypnosis and they make Some drawings and shit, and so they're they describe the aliens as short, maybe like 5'3, grayish skin, large wraparound eyes, tiny nose, black, shiny uniforms.

Greg 44:11

Nice.

Michelle 44:12

I just want to say sounds like fashion. I'm like kind of into it, but whatever. Doctor's diagnosis. After six months of all these obsessions, the screaming and the crying on all of it, Dr. Simon concludes that they had some sort of psychological condition that allowed Betty's bad dreams and nightmares she was having, which was part of why she like wouldn't let this go and she kept doing research. She kept having bad dreams. And so the doctor says that Betty's bad dream somehow tainted Barney's subconscious. And they created, so he created memories in his mind made from her nightmares.

Bobby 44:59

Typical.

Michelle 45:00

Wow. Yeah, obviously. Fascinating. Yeah.

Bobby 45:03

You've tainted my mind again. Yeah.

Michelle 45:06

Bitch wife. Tainted my mind again. So Barney, Barney absorbed her dreams, and that's his diagnosis after all of this insanity that happened in his office for six months. And so they go home. Like, I don't know what else to tell you. I know Bobby's really upset, but that's what happened.

Bobby 45:26

That's that's that's wild. And I mean, like, it's not like like we said earlier, when they're like seeing this this creature. I mean, they're we just have an innate desire to to make sense of things, to explain things. And so it totally tracks that this doctor is like gonna try to make sense of this in some way, right? And it's that she mentally attacked him.

Michelle 45:49

Yes, that's yeah, it's obviously what happens. Yeah, so that's how he decides to make sense of it. I mean, as a doctor, that his like thing is hypnotizing people. It's like you would think that he would be okay with it being aliens, but he wasn't. He was like, No, no, you you absorbed her dreams.

Bobby 46:09

Yeah, what was specialty regressive hypnosis? Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah.

Michelle 46:15

Okay, so I mean, they they go home, they're done with hypnosis. Dr. Simon's like, fucking see ya.

Bobby 46:21

You said this was like a six-month process. Wow.

Michelle 46:23

Yeah, so at this point, it's already like two years have gone by. Okay, and they just go back to their lives, they try to live normal lives.

Bobby 46:33

Yeah, those letters aren't gonna deliver themselves.

Michelle 46:36

That's right. Barney's like, I work for the post office. He's also really committed to the civil rights movement, so and he's really active in speaking engagements. At that point, he gets involved in politics a little bit, and so does she. Yeah, I mean, they're just out there fighting the good fight, living their lives. Another three years go by. It's 1965. Boom, media explosion. The Boston Boom, boom, everybody, boom, life gets fucking wrecked. So the Boston Traveler newspaper prints a story, it's huge. They print it in a series over five days. They really like make the milk the shit out of this story. And at the time, this was like a crazy heading to have. You know, the headline was a UFO chiller. I don't know. I don't know why that's so big, I guess. The wording back then was like, what?

Greg 47:33

Aliens suck the nut out of you.

Michelle 47:36

I wish it said that. But it just says a UFO chiller. Did they seize couple?

Bobby 47:42

This is three years after the abduction or three years after the hypnosis ended.

Michelle 47:46

Three years after the hypnosis. Five years. Okay. Five years have gone by.

Bobby 47:51

How did it get on the newspaper's radar?

Michelle 47:53

Right. Where did this come from?

Bobby 47:55

That's what where did it go? So where did it come from?

Michelle 47:58

Don't I judge hypnosis? Yeah. So um I'm I'm glad you asked that. We don't know. Okay, but we suspect a couple of people are fucking suspects. Um, it NICAP, a fucking leak and shit, buddy. You know what I mean? Um, maybe uh Dr. Simon, Mr. Fucking Dream Attacker. You know, I mean, look, there are leaks everywhere. Everyone's talking, and no one can be trusted. This reporter, John Latrell, is who wrote this story. Before the story breaks, he does contact the Hills because he wants their story. Sure. And they're like, fucking get out of here. No, we don't want the story going public. Don't publish this. You do not have our permission. Get fucked.

Greg 48:44

Guess what?

Michelle 48:45

So he did it anyway. And so at this time, it's the 60s, and people I think were a bit more, I don't know, it it was it seemed like a simpler time in the sense that people had more a higher sense of of uh honesty. And so he does do quite a few interviews and stuff, and people ask him, why would you do this to them? Why would you print it if they didn't want it printed? And he says he went back and forth with it like a lot, but he determined that, you know, like he said that there is a line to keep someone's privacy over the public's right to know. And so he played.

Greg 49:23

Changed the names then. Like and like be up front in the story with that of just being like the original um, the accounter that this happened to, they want their names out of it, so we're just gonna change the name to Smith. Everything in here is like legitimate and sourced and but except the names have been changed.

Michelle 49:41

The names have changed.

Greg 49:41

Protect the innocent type of shit.

Michelle 49:43

Exactly. There's so many ways to handle this. He did not handle this the right way. I think that he came up with that response for when people asked him. Yeah, I think it's super torn about it. I don't believe a word that guy says. Sounds like the government got involved and they wanted to start discrediting these people from that's that's a hot take as well, that uh you're not the first person to say that. But what's interesting about that is that Betty and Barney weren't out there talking about this. Like they were, Betty would not let it go. So she would go to some like UFO stuff and talk about it, but she thought it was like, you know, amongst friends and like by the way. Well, then she was the leak.

Greg 50:23

If she was out there actively talking about it, like who knows who's in the audience of these things.

Michelle 50:27

Well, yeah. So apparently maybe somebody did a recording of her and whatever, but some of these things weren't like public. They she was like talking to her fucking buddy Kehoe, whoever from NICAP, and I don't know, look. Luck. Luck.

Greg 50:43

My it's funny because my brain immediately goes to, well, the hypnotist was probably working under some sort of federal government program and like just cataloging stuff, like who knows what it was. Like if he has federal grants to run his business, like he's gotta like supply them with some sort of information. And then like this came across the desk, and it was like, Well, we gotta start telling people about this. Right. And like we gotta start discrediting these people. We have to start taking them down. We gotta get ahead of this, boys. The story needs to go away, and the best way we're gonna do that is destroy these people's lives.

Michelle 51:16

And they do. So they were, you know, out there doing their civil rights things, trying to raise awareness and fucking fight racism. Coming out as alien abductees would ruin their lives and their credibility and their political standing. Uh like it's just they would never choose this path for themselves, you know? And so they take time off from his post office job and from the civil rights movement and all of the stuff that they're involved in, and they decide to cooperate essentially with uh what's happening to them with the news media and like they do a bit of a tour. Um, they do some radio shows, they do some TV, fucking Barney's on that show to tell the truth.

Bobby 51:58

Yeah, Calvin was on there.

Michelle 52:00

Oh, yeah.

Bobby 52:00

Pastor Rule of Calvin.

Michelle 52:02

Hell yeah, dude.

Bobby 52:02

Yeah, or no, excuse me, it was Charlie. Sorry.

Michelle 52:04

Oh, right.

Bobby 52:05

But yeah, they were on there because they love an alien story.

Michelle 52:08

Yeah, Calvin was still crying this. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Um, I really relate to Calvin so much. So yeah, they get out there, they do the thing, they talk to everybody, they get together with a writer named John G. Fuller. So Fuller, fucking kudos to him. He gets the hills and he gets homeboy Dr. Simon together, and they all write a book called The Interrupted Journey. And it also includes, so I didn't tell you guys about this yet. Uh, Betty. While she was talking to the aliens, she says, like, what's all this? She's like looking around their ship, what's this? And she sees the star map. And the aliens, they tell her about hold on, uh, I'll get back to the star map. I didn't tell you about it yet, and I'm not gonna, but I will later. Okay, so the other big thing that happens is in 1975, a made-for-tv movie comes out called the UFO incident. Barney is played by James Earl Jones. Nice. It's fucking crazy. I watched the whole thing, but I watched it at like seven o'clock in the morning, and it was too much to take in in the first thing in the morning. But Betty is played by Estelle Parsons, and I did not recognize her. So she was the Bonnie and Bonnie and Clyde, and she like won an Oscar for a great performance, but that's not how I know her. I know her as Roseanne's mom from the Roseanne show. Okay, so it's very difficult for me the whole time. It's seven o'clock in the morning, and this lady playing Betty is being psycho. She is like, she's not what Betty was. Betty was like pretty controlled, even-tempered, regular lady. Roseanne's mom is hysterical.

Bobby 53:48

She leans heavily on the mental attacking.

Michelle 53:50

Bro, she is attacking everyone. She's attacked my fucking dreams, dude. She is just freaking out the whole time. But I do recommend watching this movie, The UFO Incident. You can find it on uh the internet. I did. Okay, so back to the star map. I got a little ahead of myself. In all right, so I know it's so much. So the UFO incident movie comes out in 1975, but the book came out in 1966. So there's this like 10-year period where they're still kind of in the news, like people have questions about it, but it's like fizzle and out, but then the movie comes out, and like they never really uh get their lives back, but the media stops hassling them like pretty soon. Like it doesn't this like media tour doesn't last all that long. Now we're gonna switch over to star map for a minute. So in the 1970s, a school teacher in Ohio claims that the Hill story is true because she has figured out where the aliens came from based off Betty's star map. So when Betty was on the ship, she saw a map and she during hypnosis recreates it, draws it. It's fucking weird. Her drawing, it's like a phallic thing with like two balls. All right, check it out.

Greg 55:07

She's just drawing dicks on the chalkboard.

Michelle 55:10

If there is a dick, but the balls were on either end, is kind of what it looks like.

Greg 55:16

I thought it was gonna say on top.

Michelle 55:17

No, um, so like one ball on each side. It's like it's weird, and there's a lot of a lot of lines everywhere, you know, it's super weird. When they ask her, what the fuck's this map? She said, I don't know. I asked the leader, the leader alien, what it all means, and he said that the broken lines are expeditions.

Greg 55:37

So like they're they have like a map of where they've been and like what they're doing.

Bobby 55:40

Yes, it's like on the back of a RV, they have the 50 United States, and then you color in one when you've been there. Yeah. Uh yeah, have a sticker of where you were. Yeah.

Michelle 55:50

Yeah, yeah. Basically that's it. So, all right, so that explains that, clears everything up. You know what I mean?

Bobby 55:55

Space, space dick map.

Michelle 55:56

Yeah, exactly. Um, so it turns out basically she was trying to draw like a 3D map, and that's why there's so many fucking weird things happening. It's not a dick at all, it's just a couple of balls with a bunch of lines. Okay. And so home girl in the school teacher in Ohio, she makes this really fucking cool 3D map out of uh like styrofoam balls and uh fishing line. It's like fucking dude, number one winner of the fifth grade science award project situation. Like she just she won the science fair with this thing.

Bobby 56:33

I was kind of She's not eligible because she's the teacher. Yeah, but she just destroyed all the kids.

Michelle 56:39

Exactly. But she she's like super smart, and she does also a lot of interviews in the 70s. She's got like 70s hair, 70s glasses, 70s vibe. She's out there talking about her map. She's doing all the space map, math. Sorry, map, math. A lot of M-words. I have a speech impediment. I'm sorry. So she figures out based off of Betty's map and like apparently something about distance, which we all know I don't understand. Space math and distance and light years and any of it. Bobby knows all of the math. I think all you guys are like secretly on meth because you're like not sleeping, you're staying up all night doing space math. Um, but she discovers the aliens map must be Zeta Atikali, which is a binary star system located about 39 light years away from Earth. And what we know about this star system is that it's very similar to our sun. So if there are planets out there, they could have life.

Greg 57:42

They do have life. Like we can just make that's incredible.

Bobby 57:45

I'm looking at the map right now. Oh, yeah, it's weird. Uh at the star map.

Greg 57:49

Yeah, I can imagine trying to like draw on a flat plane a 3D environment. Right. Like, and it's like it's hard to do that. Like, you can kind of get away with it, but like you have to understand that like you're looking at it in like 3D space. Right. But like you have to acknowledge those dimensions. Yeah. Otherwise, it's like you just see like lines all over the place, and you don't have an understanding that like it's there's depth to this, and it's not just a flat plane.

Bobby 58:13

The earth is flat in so is space. That's right. Uh the dick with a ball on each end, it looks kind of like a shake weight.

Michelle 58:20

Oh, yeah, it does. That's actually a much better description than a dick with a ball on both ends. Sorry, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

Forget forget the shake weight. Yeah. It is dick with a ball on both ends.

Greg 58:33

It's forever that. How dare you?

Bobby 58:36

I mean, that was the inspiration for a shake weight. Was there like what if there was a dick? I know what to do.

Michelle 58:41

Yeah, if I would if I shake involves what it was like.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

This, yeah, double balls.

Michelle 58:48

All right, shut up. So our homie school teacher who won her own science fair. Yeah. Her name was Marjorie Fish. So Fish is the one who came up with um, sorry, I wrote it phonetically, Zeta ticklai. I don't know, hypothesis, I guess. And I don't know, whatever. People in the UFO culture freak out. They're like, this is the best shit we've ever heard. We know where the aliens come from. I mean, they just are like eating this up.

Greg 59:18

And they um is it articul or is it a ticuli? Because I always I always remembered it as articula.

Bobby 59:25

On the crude, crude map that I'm looking at, it looks like zeta reticulli. Reticule.

Michelle 59:30

Reticulae. Reticulae. There's an R in there. There, yeah, there's definitely for sure an R, there's a Z, there's a Q-li.

Bobby 59:37

Each ball is Zeta 1 and Zeta 2. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle 59:41

That's right.

Bobby 59:41

That's what I call it. And then the middle is the reticular.

Michelle 59:43

Reticula. Yeah. Respect my reticulae. Okay. So anyway, uh, UFO people are tweaking. They love it. But this is just to let you guys know, nothing is real. In the 1990s. Alright, I'm gonna do my best with uh sounds.

Bobby 1:00:00

Are you about to take down Barney Benny Benny?

Michelle 1:00:04

Never, never, but Marjorie was maybe just like on meth and like made up a bunch of fucking shit. Not she didn't make shit up. I'm just kidding. She she did a great job.

Bobby 1:00:13

But she was teaching those kids on meth.

Michelle 1:00:16

One time in one of the interviews, she was like, I was so elated I didn't sleep that night. And so my brain was like, You were on meth.

Greg 1:00:24

I'm so I mean they called them uh black beauties back in the day.

Michelle 1:00:28

Oh yeah, she was see, she was on lewds, bro. Um, it's the opposite. Yeah, whatever she was on. She was speedballing.

Greg 1:00:36

Speedballing, doing space math.

Michelle 1:00:38

Exactly. That's exactly what was happening. Miss Fish is what I'm gonna call her because she's our teacher. In the early 1990s, um, the Europeans came out with a high precision parallax collecting satellite mission, which measured the distance to more than a hundred thousand stars around the sun more accurately than had ever previously been done. Hell yeah, Fish. Fuck yeah. No, she didn't do this. Oh uh the Europeans did. And so Fuck you, Fish. They showed where some of the stars in Miss Fish's uh 3D styrofoam map were in fact much further away than she had thought. And so none of this is her fault, by the way. We didn't have the right um, yeah, and she's also just like satellite.

Greg 1:01:25

She's an amateur at this.

Michelle 1:01:26

She's just like, I think I've like cracked the code on like Yeah, and for fucking 20 years almost, she had the code. Yeah, you know, but then they came out with this other thing, parallax collecting satellite, and proved her wrong. Their research showed that some of the stars counted by Fish as likely to host life would have to be excluded. Uh, but then some of the other stars that she had could then be counted. So like the math was just a little bit off, like what she thought was this, was that, and whatever. So Fish said she recognized all of this, and she herself had to reject her own hypothesis in a public statement. Great. So that's where we ended on uh particularly.

Bobby 1:02:08

But there are but there are habitable planets in this area. Is we landed there, there just weren't the ones that she thought.

Michelle 1:02:14

Exactly. Yeah, so it's like jobs done.

Greg 1:02:17

Yeah. Could you then take the original map and using this new information kind of chart out the a new area where it could possibly be?

Michelle 1:02:25

We should. We should call Miss Fish up and tell her to fucking get back on math. Given given all this new info.

Bobby 1:02:30

That meth math and we need to figure out where they took Barney's nut and we need to get it back.

Michelle 1:02:34

We need yeah.

Bobby 1:02:36

Yeah.

Michelle 1:02:38

I really want someone to make a movie.

Greg 1:02:40

Bar Barney's nut retrieval program.

Michelle 1:02:43

All right, let's make that satellite. I don't know why. I keep calling it a satellite because that's what it's called. Like we shot a satellite up there who can get all these images and give us his math and send it back, but I really want it to be like, I don't know, a rocket. Like I want to shoot a rocket up there to go get Barney's nut or whatever. Whatever you guys want, I guess.

Greg 1:03:02

Betty's skin cells.

Michelle 1:03:03

Yeah, can I get whatever they took out of Betty's belly? All right.

Greg 1:03:06

They put something in.

Michelle 1:03:07

Did they put it in and take it out? I mean, she didn't oh no, she does get cancer.

Greg 1:03:12

There it is. There was probably like a little chip in there that was her whole feeling of saying she felt what was it, off or she felt infected.

Michelle 1:03:20

Yeah.

Greg 1:03:20

She knew.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:21

Yeah, they had contaminated. They contaminated.

Greg 1:03:24

That was the word, yeah.

Michelle 1:03:25

Oh yeah, contaminated. That's right, that's right. Yeah, she did know. So I want to go back for a second. Oh shit, now I'm breaking everything. Um, Kathleen, Betty's niece. She uh like that whole like uh Mrs. Fish, that that was just a side project that we did. But back to uh Betty and Barney. Kathleen the niece, she at some point is like the story seems to be changing. You know, she remembered this happening when she was a kid, and at some point she was like, it something's not really adding up anymore. Things seem a little bit weird. So she starts her own investigation. She starts filing FOIL requests and shit. She wants to know what Project Blue Book says about this. Um, you know, she just wants like any type of evidence that she can get. And so she files all these things. Everything takes years because it's the government and they're trying to fuck a blackballer or whatever. But she does find what she calls the false letter, which was filed in 1963 and it completely contradicts what Betty and Barney says. Remember when I said that uh Betty said it was like a ping pong ball going back and forth, zigzagging and whatever? So this letter says that the Hills reported no movement and no evidence. And this is the letter that I referenced earlier where they Project Blue Books' official investigation ends with them saying it's probably Jupiter. And so when Kathleen the Nice finds this, she's like, Oh, dude, the government, that's so fucked up. And then she gets together with John Latrell, who was the original guy who wrote that magazine article that came out that like blew ever the newspaper article that blew everything up. Shh, Kathleen thinks that it was one of Betty's friends who knew about the abduction and the hypnosis and told John. But John wouldn't say who his source was. And so we don't know exactly who it was. It could be he, you know, got a little bit of information, and then he asked a lot of people, and a lot of people knew a little bit, and together he was.

Greg 1:05:25

That's usually how it goes. And when like journalists actually did journalism, right? Yeah, like really hunt down information.

Michelle 1:05:32

But one thing I think that's like really important was the niece Kathleen was like, What I want is some kind of proof. You know, I want like fucking radar or something else besides Betty and Barney that says that this shit happened. And so John Latrell, the reporter, said at the time when he was investigating all of this, what he found was that 12 to 14 other people said that they saw a craft. Matching what Betty and Barney saw in the White Mountains on the same night. So, like the next day after they see the UFO before they've been hypnotized and know all the alien bad butt stuff that happened to them, they did go to the Air Force and they were like, This happened to us. You know, we need to file a report. We gotta call the cops, you know? We gotta call the UFO cops, and the UFO cops are the Air Force, so like that's where they went. And so apparently 12 to 14 other people also went to the Air Force. Oh, damn. Okay. Yeah. And so this would be huge because then you have that you have like fucking 16 people who saw this. That makes it a bit more legitimate.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:35

You mean they saw Jupiter?

unknown 1:06:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:37

However, the Jupiter was just bright that night.

Michelle 1:06:39

Yeah, so bright, bopping around. John, though, said that when he was putting out the article, his editor said that including the 12 to 14 other witnesses wasn't requ like it wouldn't give anything to the story, and they told him to take it out. And so he did. But when he retired, he gave all of his notes to the editor. So Kathleen, the niece, is like, yo, Mr. Editor, give me those notes. And they were like, we can't find out. Of course. So we'll never know. But endless amounts of people have looked into this. There is so much.

Greg 1:07:11

It could be also like his like conscience getting to him, where it is just like, oh, like they didn't want this kind of exposure on this. Like, let me like add in that 16 other people saw this.

Michelle 1:07:24

And then like it's just like sorry, are you calling him a liar?

Greg 1:07:27

No, no, no. Well, maybe. If this was something that like could have been added like years upon years later, where it was just like he essentially ruined these people's lives. So he's just like, well, there were actually a bunch of other people, but my editor told me to keep it out.

Michelle 1:07:41

Yeah, you know what? I think he's a liar, but I don't I don't know what he's lying about. I just like don't believe him. Remember earlier when I was like, oh, he went on interviews and was like, I had to hold the line for the public to know the truth or whatever, and whatever. Yeah, he's still kind of an asshole. Yeah, he seems a little bit sleazy. Anyway, a lot of people have looked into this case, and there's not a lot of I mean, obviously there's you can watch Betty and listen to Barney and there's a lot of photos and stuff from that like five, six year period. Um, but there's not a lot of like I don't know, the government never said, Yeah, we have, you know, radar or we can confirm that it wasn't Jupiter. Nothing like that ever happens. Um, some people say that there is an FBI investigation and there's some missing FBI files, but that seems to be kind of busted. Like Barney probably has an FBI file based off his civil rights stuff and probably has nothing to do with the abduction stuff.

Bobby 1:08:36

And it's very easy to say that there's missing FBI files. Yeah. Because nobody can produce them, so they're missing.

Michelle 1:08:42

And so the haters think that Dr. Simon's probably right. It's probably some form of like sleep paralysis and some fucking dream attacks and some false memories.

Bobby 1:08:53

Mental ninja shit. Yeah, yeah, like an attack.

Michelle 1:08:56

In the 80s and 90s, people started coming out and saying that like false m or like uh what was this happened during the satanic panic also?

Greg 1:09:05

It was like uh uh Yeah, there's like an idea of like false memories. Like people like are fed these ideas of things that happen to them, and they truly believe these things happen to them, but like they're 100% implanted, essentially. Right, right.

Michelle 1:09:17

Uh recovered memories, that's what I was looking for.

Greg 1:09:20

Repressed memories, the power of suggestion, and uh and we all know, like even like on our in our own lives, like there are things that like I think I know for a fact. Yeah, I remember this so clearly, and like I couldn't be any more wrong. Like it's the exact opposite of what I'm thinking is actually true, and I'm just like, well, I'm a dummy.

Michelle 1:09:41

You guys, the amount of times that that has happened to me in the last couple of years is unbelievable. I think I'm losing my mind because there's so many things I have the full confidence that I'm right. Yeah, and I couldn't be more wrong. It's really it's humble.

Greg 1:09:56

It's fun when you say stuff with confidence too, and then it's just like someone's like, uh no, and you're like, wait a second.

Bobby 1:10:02

I've seen her do it in person, it's pretty entertaining.

Michelle 1:10:05

I'm glad everyone's entertained by my mind going, actively going, starting on a little journey out.

Bobby 1:10:15

It's not the your mind is going that's entertaining, it's the confidence with which you double down on the thing that is definitely false.

Michelle 1:10:26

I'm not. Oh god, I get humbled every day by my own dumbness. Um really it's it's tough. Yeah, so I mean that's what most people who, you know, haters gonna hate. Um, they say it's basically uh the hypnosis is what made them, you know, think that all this was real. Then there is the nuclear, I I wrote nuclear coincidence because this I feel like comes up a lot with uh these sightings and stuff that they're they're happening near uh nuclear power plants, and there's this idea that aliens are trying to get us to stop doing fucking nuclear stuff, stop fucking around with nuclear bombs and things so that you don't blow up the earth and like I don't know, spectrum.

Greg 1:11:10

That's like when all the first sightings started happening was uh when we started testing nuclear weapons. Yeah, then all of a sudden, like there were UFOs everywhere.

Michelle 1:11:17

Exactly. So it came up that in this area of New Hampshire, some of the bombers that had nuclear bombs housed in them were there during 1961. So they were like at an Air Force base somewhere nearby. So it could be that the aliens were here checking out our fucking nukes and you know, probed our buddies the hills. So just to kind of wrap this up, Barney unfortunately had a stroke and died in 1969. But Betty went on for the rest of her life to talk about this. She did conventions all the time and she did interviews, um, and she said that this was a thing that just haunted her, and it was something that was always on her mind. It was the last thing she thought of when she went to bed. It was the first thing she thought of when she woke up, and it just, I mean, it in some ways gave her a life because she became this big UFO lady, but it also stole her life. Um, one of the things that I really loved is she always referred to them not as aliens, but as astronauts from another solar system. And I just thought that was really sweet. Nice. Um, but she passed away in 2004, about uh three years before she passed away. Our founder, Timothy Green Beckley, actually got to meet her, and there's some photos of him and her together with some sculptures um that she had made that is like a bust of the aliens that she saw. And so on page 106 of our book, Alien Lives Matters, you can find that photo. It's also a really great book that we sell that has over 100 accounts of different alien encounters. Um and it's put together by over 20 UFO researchers and it's almost 600 pages long and can be found on the Conspiracy Journal website and sold on Amazon. Again, it's called Alien Lives Matter. Um, and if you've been abducted by an alien or you knew Betty and Barney, or you've got anything to say about anal probes, or you think you can hypnotize us? Oh God, please hypnotize us. That's right. I forgot Bobby asked to be hypnotized. I don't want to be hypnotized because I think it's too scary. But please, please somebody hypnotize Bobby. Call us at the Strange Exchange. 929-445-3705. Hypnotize Bobby, 92945-3705.

Greg 1:13:37

Goodbye. Goodbye.