Why I Still Love the Church (even though she's broken my heart) Part 1

Why do I still love the Church when I've been criticized, judged and hurt for being a pastor?  Why not love Jesus and Scripture without investing in the Church?  Join Aimee Copley Mulder as she discusses the ways the Church has hurt her and the beautiful mess that can transform lives: the Church! Part One

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Today on the All Glory to God podcast, we're answering the question why I still love the church, even though it's broken my heart. In this age of deconstruction and asking questions and people running away from the church to institution, I want you to know why me, Amy Copley Mulder, the preaching mom or preacher mom, whichever you say, why I still love the church, even though she's broken my heart coming up now.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Doesn't matter if you're young or wild. All that matters is you answer the door when Jesus comes to change your life. Give it up to God. And I give all the glory to God. And let's get all the glory to God.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

I've just been thinking about this a lot. Good morning. It's Amy Copley Mulder on the All Glory to God podcast. I've been thinking why I still love the church when she has broken my heart. Because I am a pastor. Now, I hope if you've been listening to this podcast, or if you're joining me now, you know a couple of things. The first is I really love Jesus. I have a great relationship with God. I believe God loves your questions. I love scripture. I love scripture. I love the Bible. I love studying it. I love preaching from it. Hopefully, if you join me on some of the scriptural reflections that happen on Tuesday, you have heard and you have seen this love of scripture. But loving Jesus and loving scripture does not mean you actually just live as a pastor. I could love Jesus and love scripture and not serve the church, was my vocation. I don't have to serve the church. I can just be a part of a church and be like a professor or write books or something else. I can have those loves and not be a pastor. And I have been a pastor for 20 years. Whoa. I have been a pastor for 20 years. And I do love Jesus and love scripture, but I really do love people. But the church, not the building, the church is full of people, and life together with people is messy any way you look at it. Right now, as I talk to people, there are a lot of people caring or dealing with past religious trauma. They went to a church as a kid, the church hurt them, or they've been excluded from a congregation for for various reasons, or even they really believed, like the biggest believers, and they just didn't find a safe space to ask questions. And I hope and I pray that my churches, I've pastored to, and the church I'm currently in, I've been for 15 years. I hope and pray that my church in the Sunday school rooms, in the building, around homes that meet. I hope that our church is a safe place for people to ask questions of God. But I understand this distrust of religion. Last week we had our internet upgraded, and I was talking to the service guy there, and he was just a wonderful conversation, and we were talking, and he he just basically said to me, I kind of invited into our Easter stuff and that kind of thing. And he said to me, Listen, I don't trust religion. Religion is why all the wars have been fought, you know, in our day. And he's not wrong. I mean, how dumb would I be when the guy's saying religion is why wars were fought? Well, if you look back to the crusades on forward, yep, religion had a part of it. The church was used or God was used to incite war in many ways, which is just a kind of a harsh modern truth. And so I said, Well, you're right. I said, You're right. I said, I want to let you know that it I'm not religious. I have a relationship with Jesus, and I can't get away from this guy, Jesus, no matter how hard I try. And I said, And we're a community. And I said to him, I think it's a four-year-old little girl, and I just remember saying, I just want to let you know you cannot believe in God and feel comfortable to come here and be a part of the community. We have a breakfast, we have a this. So, you know, he didn't end up coming, but I said, this is a say I wanted him to, I said, I want to let you know. I remember looking him directly in the eye, you cannot believe in God and still try us out, still come to this church body. And I'm not sure people feel that they can, because I'm not sure the church universal, and I'm really asking myself as a local church pastor, has done the best job saying, you don't believe in God, come on and see. You can ask questions, you can seek here. You know, we we want people to kind of conform to our way of thinking sometimes. That's not what Jesus did when he walked on the earth. So the question came to me, why, Amy, are you still a pastor after 20 years? Because I want to let you know the church has broken my heart. There's been a lot of things that have broken my heart. And yet I still choose to serve as a pastor of a local church in Mesquiteon, Michigan. I am still a part of the Church of the Nazarene, which is a holiness denomination. And I believe in our roots and our bones and the beautiful doctrine of holiness where you put Christ in the center of your life, and everything and every thought um swirls around that decision that Christ is in the center of who I am. And I loved our, I love our emphasis on helping the poor and not building giant palaces uh to success, but just really the church being this building for the community, this community church thing. I love the Church of the Nazarene, but I will tell you, there have been moments where my heart has been broken and God's people have not been kind and have taken Devin and I across the coals a little bit. And I'm sure as a pastor, I have hurt someone's feelings. I have not listened when I should have. I have hurt people. I am sure that Amy Copley Mulder has not been perfect. I am positive of it. And I just want to say if I hurt anyone's feelings, which I'm sure I have, I just want to confess to you that as a leader in the church, I apologize for all the hurt that I've caused, which I'm sure has happened. But as I look out into my community today, as I'm recording, I just want to let you know that I think the church is a pretty amazing thing. When Jesus ascended after he appeared to his disciples for the final time and he went back into heaven, and he said, I'm gonna send you a comforter. I'm gonna send you the Holy Spirit and he will be with you. And the Holy Spirit came and what happened was when the Holy Spirit came down on Pentecost, what began, what started, what we celebrate the birthday on the Pentecost, was the church. The church is the bride of Christ. It's the thing that Jesus, it's the organism, it's the organization that Jesus left so that we could care for each other. And the church is a beautiful thing. Now, what has happened is we have a million denominations, especially in America, because when the Puritans and the pilgrims were coming from England, they wanted freedom from the religion of the Church of England. And so that made very different splinter groups. I mean, there are so many denominations and different organizations. Every church has a theological bend. So your non-denominational church that isn't claiming a denomination started from somewhere and it has a bend. It's either a Calvinistic theology or a Wesley theology. Ask some questions, make sure you know what they think about God and scripture. Um, because a lot of those non-denominational churches, so here is the church. And I am a pastor of a small congregation. We want our identity not to be we're the small denomination, we're the small church on the across the street from the high school, but that's where we are right now. And I have had the church break my heart. I was a pastor in Port Arthur, Texas for about two or three years. And it was just a time where we were having babies, and the church was growing, and a lot of people were coming to know the Lord, and it was really an exciting time to be a pastor. And I had just been at this point very nurtured, and everything I said, they were like, Oh, you're just so wonderful. I had been very encouraged. I was about 30, 31, 32, and I had not met an experience in my life that I had not been able to charm my way out of. Now, I wouldn't have told you then that I was living on charm, but I kind of was. And so one day after church, I received a big, thick letter from one of our new members that had just come back to the church after recommitting her life to God. And I just don't know if you know this, so I'll let you know. Whenever you get a big, thick letter, it usually is not, hey, these are all the reasons why you're wonderful. It usually isn't trying to lift you up. It usually is a detailed list on why you've messed up. And it was a letter of criticism. It was not harsh. Okay. When I look back on this now at age 50, this letter was trying to help me. Okay, it really was. It could have been said with a little bit more grace. There could have been a little bit more kindness, but it really, it just rocked my world. It said that I'm not a good listener, which is still something I struggle with. It said that whenever anyone is talking about their life, I interrupt with another story about my child. So when someone's talking about their kid, I go, well, my child, and I always, and I'm trying to relate, but it could be like I'm trying to one-up everybody, which, you know, was valid. And it said that we don't let anyone help us, we do everything, and we don't involve a team to help us. We don't delegate enough. So this criticism just sent me in a tailspin. I didn't see it as kind. I saw it, I saw it as we are hated. You know, it was a real black and white way of thinking. We had a small group that night with the one of the people that wrote the letter, and I just wanted to go and be with my parents. I just couldn't face anybody. I mean, I was really destroyed. I was really destroyed. How dare this person say these things? If I had the letter, which of course I don't, I would look back and see that the problem with this criticism that I received that broke my heart and devastated me too. The problem with this criticism was they were right. The part of the problem with this criticism and the reason it felt so devastating and hurt me so much is because I do struggle with listening. I love talking about my children, it's my favorite topic. And I mean, I just sort of was doing everything myself because nobody would do it the better than me. So there was this arrogance in my leadership that I was leading from at that time. And it just destroyed me. It just destroyed me. Now, what happened is I changed. So I was like, okay, I am going to work really hard at being a good listener. The funniest thing that happened to me was in efforts to be a good listener or what was perceived of as a good listener, when I talk to this person, I just would be telling my brain, don't say anything. Just look at them and nod. Don't talk, Amy, don't interrupt. Because for me, when I'm talking with a friend, this interruption that keeps going on, I'm not trying to interrupt. It's me being with you. I'm with you. Not everybody sees it that way. They see it as being very rude and that you're trying to stop their thinking. So I have grown as a listener. But the funniest thing that happened to me is for months after this letter, when I was encountering this person, I was like, my brain was saying, don't talk any, don't talk. I said it so much, I was self-talking, don't talk, don't talk. I couldn't hear a word they said. And when I was interrupting them, which they perceived as horrible listening, I actually was engaging with their content. But I got another letter months later that said, Oh, you've been become such a good listener, and you're not talking about your children as much, and you're doing much better. So, I mean, I try I tried to take that criticism and become better. I'm pretty sure I became a worse listener, but I was perceived as a better listener. So the church broke my heart in that little small way. And what you want to do when you receive criticism at your job is you want to just prove somebody that you're not like they say, but you also just want to quit, you know, and I will tell you, there's been a lot of wanting to quit this pastoral ministry in my life. But one of the reasons I love the church is not that I get criticized, but because the church is a place where all the generations, hopefully, all the generations come together and try to live life in a messy way. Now, we're not trying to be messy, but it just is messy because when you're talking about different generations and different opinions and different thoughts, it could be messy, but it's a beautiful thing to have all the generations together. Now, families are supposed to be that way, but statistics are telling us that one in three adult children are no contact with their parents. They are saying we do not contact our parents anymore. The intergenerational nature of the church is a beautiful, beautiful thing. I came to uh become a pastor and I was pregnant with our first child, and those those people there in Texas surrounded me with care, um, with with advice, but also just we will be here. It gave me a safe space to make all of the mistakes. I may know more about the Bible than some of them, but I sure didn't know about being a mom. So it put me in this beautiful state. And we have been here in Meskea. King moved to this church when I was pregnant with our third son. And our sons have had this group of people that have believed in them, have loved them, have prayed for them, go to their sporting events, go to their musicals, um, support them. There, there is a beautiful uh warmth between the generations. And every family that comes to our church, when they have little kids, everybody is loving on that kid and praying for that kid and caring for that kid. There is a we're in this together situation. I love the church for that. That you don't have to raise your children by yourself, but there's a distrust and a fear of the church because of past situations. And to be honest, I understand why there's so much of this distrust. Because the church is an authority of sorts, because pastors take too much authority or they should not, there have been abuses and religious trauma and fear used. So there's this beautiful situation where you can raise your family and meet other parents and and struggle together and also have victories together. You can there's that situation. But there's also situations where I've heard of um one of one of my friends here in Muskegon told me that there was corporal punishment in their Sunday school room, and her mom would have to sign off on her getting like the paddle if she misbehaved in Sunday school class in one of their churches. So why would why would we trust if there was like borderline abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, why would we trust this institution? And my feelings have been hurt by people in the church. But one of the reasons that I still love the church and believe in the beauty of the church is this beautiful intergenerational connection. We have a lady in our church who always brings my boys little notebooks that she colors at her retirement home. They keep them in a special place. Those are the Miss Janice notebooks. It's a very small thing that means a lot. Those are the kind of beautiful things you miss when you choose willingly not to try to be a part of a church community. You get beautiful offerings and connections. I understand not trusting the church. My biological father, who I don't consider my father, was a pastor when I was born. My parents got divorced when I was almost three because my dad had a schizophrenic break. He was in his late 20s when that all comes to light. And he he was doing things that were pretty unconscionable. We don't know all that he did, but he it was in a it was an abusive situation that I'm really glad that my mom got me out of. Um, so he had a psychotic break, ran naked through the town that they were pastoring, and the church there, that small church, was so embarrassed by the actions of my biological dad, but he was in the mental hospital. So they took out their frustration upon my mom and they screamed outside of the parsonage as she was packing up, get out, get out, get out. It was the church at its worst. And so my mom was broken, and she moved into a trailer in Coldwater, Michigan with me. And when my biological dad was released from the hospital, she took him back into the home because you know, in sickness and in health, and she was trying to make it work. He worked at a factory and she was a teacher in the town. And we started going to another little church just as attendees. She had been viciously treated at the age of 26. She had not had much support. Her family was upset that this happened, and you know, well, why did this happen to you? Why didn't you let me know? But you have loyalty to your husband, and so it was just this big mess of responsibility and burden. And the little church in Coldwater, and my family was going through extreme struggles. My my dad um got kicked out of the home for repeated um, you know, horrible behavior, and they were done, and so my mom was on her way to divorcing him, as she should have. And it was Christmas Eve, and we were alone, and I was three, and I had a little pixie cut, and I was just this adorable little precocious, better vocabulary than most adults kid. And the door knocked on Christmas Eve, and it was Santa. And my mom was crying, Amy, it's Santa. Santa's at our door, and I said, Well, mom, you told me he was coming. And we laid out all of the presents, and I don't know how many, I mean, this was a small church, I don't know how many presents were there, but to my little kid mind and memory, it was like rows and rows of presents, you know, like 150 presents, which I'm sure it wasn't. And so my mom said, Okay, Aim, we're just gonna open up one and then we're gonna go to bed. So we opened up our one present, and I got to sleep until the morning to open all the rest. And as I Lay sleeping, I heard my 26-year-old mom go, Hey, let's open up the rest of them. And we opened up all the presents. It was a glorious Christmas. The church at its best. And what's interesting is that moment in my family when the church was at its best has become a tradition where we help a family every single year.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Santa Cumps.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Why do I still have the church even if it's hurt me and I haven't even told you about the big hurts yet? Is because there's the possibility of beautiful, fragrant offering before God. That when we live our life in absolute surrender and try to live it with people, there can be something more beautiful than you can even imagine. This is part one of why I still love the church. I'm gonna finish this up next week for part two of this topic. But I just want to let you know that you can love Jesus and love scripture and not be a part of a church. You can't. But it's very easy to be holy when you're all by yourself. There's no one to hold you accountable. There's no one to say maybe you talk too much. There's no one to walk through those hurts of life and struggle. And also when people behave badly, you get no opportunity to learn what forgiveness is about and how to live within the power and truth of forgiveness. Because you're by yourself, you have no community. Being a part of a community is not an easy situation. It's messy, it's terribly messy. And people will hurt your feelings and you will hurt other people's feelings, and you will have to decide whether you were just having a bad day or you need to really talk about an issue. You will see other people's children maybe not treat your kids bad, and you have to ask yourself, do I get involved? You will see people you love make horrible decisions that could wreck their families or wreck their finances or wreck their marriages. And you will have to decide what does it mean to be loving my neighbor as myself in this situation? What does it mean to love the Lord my God with my heart, soul, and mind in this situation? What does it mean? And it is messy and beautiful and essential. You see, Jesus left us the church so we could take care of each other. And it's a beautiful thing. Now, denominations don't make the right decisions, in my opinion. Church institutions have been abusive, and we have to address those systems and we have to get at it. But today, I'm going to tell you one reason why I still love the church is because of what it can be. It can be the beacon of hope to a mom that just became single and her three-year-old daughter. It can be a transformative agent in every family's life where they realize we are not alone. And when that community that says we're not alone points to the person of Jesus who forgave and walked the earth and transformed every place he stood, when Jesus is the center of that community, then it is nothing less than a supernova of transformation. Why do I still love the church? Because of all the possibilities of what it can be and for the way the church has loved me and my family. But Amy, hasn't it done this? Hasn't it done this? Yes, it has. And we'll get to some nitty-gritty next week of how we have been wounded and damaged by people in our church. But I serve the church today because I know it can change the world, because I know it can change the world, and not change the world in huge, thunderous ways, but through small acts of love, like a notebook colored with intention for your child, where people know that they have been loved not only by the church, but by the hands and feet of Jesus. Grace and peace go with you today. All glory to God. Why I still love the church, part one. Join me next Thursday for the conclusion of this episode. And also Tuesday, we're going to continue reflecting on the Sermon on the Mount. All glory to God. This is Amy Coughley Mulder.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

He gives us his life that's done. So it's done. It's about time. Give it up. So that's all the glory to God.