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I love Mondays with Mike Heller.

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Broadcasting live from an undisclosed bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller, powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

So here we go in on a Tuesday. You know what Tuesdays are because we've been doing this for well, twice, second Tuesday on I Love Mondays, a daily podcast. I'm your host, Mike Heller. It is a super fan Tuesday, but we have a bit of a change from week one and the Superfan Tuesday. We didn't fire anybody. We didn't hire anybody new. It's an audition. Today's one of those where we're trying to do something that we haven't done before, and we bring in a new super fan on a Tuesday. I'll bring him into the mix in a moment. Uh, wire copy, AP wire copy delivered to me just in time to begin the show. Oh, breaking news. Packers released Nate Hobbs earlier today. I don't know that this is significant, other than the moves that are made. Now, these are the guns so far off of the Green Bay Packers roster from as it stood some 96 hours ago. Malik Willis is gone. Left tackle Rasheed Walker is gone. Left guard Elton Jenkins is gone. Wide receiver Romeo Dobbs is gone. Edge rusher Rashawn Gary is gone. Defensive lineman Colby Wooden is gone. Edge rusher uh Kingsley Ann Igbari is gone. Linebacker Quay Walker is gone. Defensive back Nate Hobbs is gone. Those are all players that were either Willis was a foregone conclusion. Miami 67.5 billion dollars, three years. Rasheed Walker released, hadn't signed yet. That's a little surprising, thought he would. He will, and he's gonna get a big bag of money, and he probably won't go through the drive-thru on that deposit. He'll probably have to go into the bank. Um, Elton Jenkins has been released. He's gonna get somebody's gonna spend a lot of money on him. Romeo Dobbs is gonna get a big bag of money. Rashawn Gary, they'll restructure the contract with him in Dallas. The Packers did that expertly. They got a fourth round draft choice in exchange for a guy that they were going to just release. Dallas did it, so they didn't have to deal with 30 other teams in free agency and worry about somebody else stepping up and paying more money. So Dallas did it. That's why they were willing to give up the fourth. That was well structured by Green Bay. Colby Wooden was traded to the Colts for Zaire Franklin. Uh Kingsley Enikbari was a free agent signed by the Jets. One year$10 million. That's a lot of money. Bad franchise. Uh Quay Walker. I like Quay Walker. I I think he was a I think he's a very good linebacker, and I think he's going to continue to be very good. Is he great? Not often are middle linebackers transactional players in such a way that people look at him and go, oh my God, that dude is fantastic. Quay Walker is good and he has great speed. But at$40.5 million for the three years, he was not going to fit in the Green Bay's plan. That's the price of doing business in the NFL. When you draft an interior linebacker, unless he's all world, he probably isn't going to be on your roster long term. Second contracts, not all that often, unless we're a little disappointed in him as a fan base, because then that guy can stay. AJ Hawk did it for a lot of years, and he wasn't disappointing. He just didn't live up to expectations that were unrealistic for some. Nate Hobbs released this morning. He was not very good in the year that he was in Green Bay. So I think they expected more. They didn't get it. They did make a move earlier today. They signed Benjamin St. Just from the Chargers, used to play with the Commanders. And they've obviously, we go back a few days now, traded for Zaire Franklin, re-signed Chris Brooks, the running back. He's RB3. Darien Kennard re-signed on the offensive line. Didn't he have a catch and then a fumble? Look like a threat out of the backfield as a runner. I think that was him. He's back. It's a depth move. I don't mind it. It's not splashy. Jordan Morgan extended. He's going to be your left tackle. Aaron Banks restructured. He's going to be your left guard. Sean Ryan re-signed. Three-year,$33 million. He's going to be your center. So those are three of your five offensive linemen. Zach Tom is your right tackle, but there's an injury question that he's coming back from. He is your best offensive lineman, but injury is a question. So there's a conversation to be had here about the Packers and what they're doing specifically on the defensive line. Because right now, if they had to play a game, they'd have to, you know, like reach out to my super fan Tuesday to say, hey, can you, how many snaps can you give us, you know, a nose tackle or something? See how I we're not even seeing you yet, and I plugged you in as a nose tackle. Not nice. Um the Packers are gonna, I think, gonna make a move that might be of some significance on the defensive line because they have cap space. They freed themselves up of uh of a lot of cap issue on what they've done. But I get it. Right now, if you're looking at this, you might be inclined to go, hey, what's my team doing? Are we gonna be good enough right now with where you are? Well, right now is not the measuring. The measuring will be coming up a little bit later after all this is done. So I ran a poll question today, and then I'll introduce my guests. So the poll question is on a Super Fan Tuesday edition of the I Love Mondays podcast, which is on X and YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, what's your reaction to the first day plus now of movements for the Packers in the tampering window? So the choices are good, big moves coming. 38% of you are living there right now. Bad, too many plus players are gone. 19.5%. And the I don't care, the bears suck is winning the vote at 44%. Why am I not surprised at that? I want to spend a moment to thank our sponsors before I introduce our super fan guest on this Tuesday. So our sponsors are important to what we do. I want to say thank you to our presenting sponsors, M3 Insurance. I love Monday, presented by M3 Insurance, uh, individuals who manage risk, purchase insurance, and provide the right benefits to their employees. That's what M3 does. They help small, medium, and large businesses manage the insurance programs for their employees and the benefits package. They are fantastic. I have a relationship with those in charge at M3. They have done fantastic work for a long time. And I think one of the things that we want to do here with I Love Mondays is not only recognize our sponsors, but to urge you to support our sponsors. So if you're involved in a small, medium, or large business and you manage or are involved with securing insurance and benefit packages for your employees, reach out to M3Insurance. That's m3ins.com. I would say the same thing as we talk about the neuroscience group out of uh Northeast Wisconsin, out of the valley. Excellence in brain, spine, and pain care. Choose neuroscience group in Northeast Wisconsin, neurosciencegroup.com. So in sports, you trust the right team for your health. It's no different. Neuroscience group brings together specialists in neurology, spa spine, and pain management working together to get you back to full strength. And a big thank you, as always, to Pottawatomy Sportsbook and Casino Bet Above the Rest. All the lines we talk about on the show when we get the game talk, they're all brought to you by Pottawatomy Sportsbook Bet Above the Rest. They also present Vinny Rettino, who's with us every Thursday on the show. And all injury updates and a sponsor on the show are presented by Habish Habish and Rhodes here. 13 locations that ensures you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury and is personally committed to recovery. All right. So I've known this super fan for a long time. Uh used to play softball with him back when he played softball. I'm not saying he doesn't anymore, but my guess is that he doesn't, but I could be wrong. Uh he's a super fan with uh Packers, Badgers. Uh you're not you're not a Tennessee fan.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Uh not really, no. Well, your brother? No. So my cousin, cousin, my cousins all went to Tennessee. Yeah. And I used to spend a lot of time down there with them in Tennessee. Yeah. And actually became a bit of a Tennessee football fan in college and really became a Manning fan. So quick shout out to my daughter. So my daughter, yeah, Peyton Elizabeth Corning, yeah, is named after Peyton Andy Eli. That's how we got to Elizabeth. Look at that. And we had we had a dog, Archie. So uh we had them all cooperative. Cooper. Well, I mean, Cooper's what's funny is you know, Cooper's supposed to be the best athlete. Nobody knows who Cooper is. Right. If I get another dog someday, I could go Cooper. Or Arch. Or Arch. There's a Archie. Yeah, we can go. I'm not sold on Arch yet.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

By the way, Courtney Corning. Uh, buddy of mine, good friend. And here's my rule on Super Fan Tuesday. Jeff Vilker, uh, he works one week and then he takes a week off. So, in fact, I think he's taking two weeks off. Um, you know, that was like the great advice that the golfers are given when they're, you know, uh Fav used this, didn't he? Somebody uh said, Hey, uh, you got any advice for me? Take two two weeks off and then quit. So uh I don't know that Vilker's quitting, but he worked a week and now he's gonna take two weeks off. So Courtney is in my rule of super fan. You have to have passion. Courtney's passionate. Uh Treadmill's passionate. Whoever I bring in to sit on in on Tuesdays, uh I trust this part. They're passionate. Number two, they have to be smart, but not smart all the time.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

You qualify. Uh I think so. Uh, you you told me a long time ago show's not very enjoyable if uh we just sit here and agree all the time. Correct. So I've got to be dumb enough to not agree with all the smart things you say. But that's the gameplay. Yeah, boy, that's really well played, right? Something up to the host.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

Yeah, but not nicely done. Thank you. So so there's a little bit of that um in what Courtney brings. Uh, and then uh the man not pictured today, Ben Bano, who uh saved the day yesterday when I was gonna screw things up. Um, you know, we were late 30 minutes yesterday because I couldn't figure it out. Ben walks in, hits four buttons, and he goes, What's the problem?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

I said, uh as a person who got to see a little bit behind the curtain before Ben got here.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, I'm glad Ben got here. No, no, yeah. Oh, oh, listen, hey, everything that's happening that you can't see, yeah, I I would have we we would have been on the air at 1:30 uh from a live perspective. And and obviously for those who are watching live, we appreciate you doing that. Uh, welcome into the program for those watching uh on your downloads, wherever you get your podcasts, we appreciate it. And thanks for your uh patronage of the program in day seven. This is episode seven. All right, so let's let's dive a little bit deeper into the worry that is some fans have about their team, the Green Bay Packers, because so many players have left. There is a plan. Teams never share that plan with the fan base or the media as the conduit between the program and the fan base. It is their plan. All of these moves gone. Willis, Walker, Jenkins, Dobbs, Gary, Wooden, Enikbari, another Walker, and Hobbes. Um, A, they don't like walkers, so don't expect anymore to be in Green Bay. Um, B, that didn't happen as spur-of-the-moment decisions. Those decisions are made over uh months of evaluation, and then the NFL says, hey, this is the legal tampering period. This is when you get to make moves. But you and I talked about before we began, now we talk about it on the podcast. We're both wondering if indeed there isn't a splashy Trey Hendrickson kind of a move. Um, you know, obviously they they were talking about Max Crosby a year ago, but that ship has now sailed with Max going to Baltimore for two first rounders. Um, but there is, I think, a fair likelihood that Green Bay is going to make a splashy move, which is unlike them at a certain extent. Certainly was unlike Ted Thompson. Because Ted would have napped through this window. All the Packers would have done were the releases, and there wouldn't have been any signings until you know two weeks from now, and it'd be six guys you've never heard of, right? Right, it's all draft and developed.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Well, let's be fair. First of all, Ted probably would have re-signed one or two of those guys because Ted probably liked to keep his own guys at home, right? So that would have been uh one piece. You know, the I I would say this, and you and I did talk about this a little before we got on on the air. I would say that I'm actually more concerned about some of the keeps than I am some of the releases. I don't think any of the releases are surprised to anybody who follows back Packer Football for the most part. The Hobbes one probably being the most surprising, only because of the uh really short tenure, probably. I would say would be the most we all knew Malik Willis was gone. We only Rashid Walker was gone. I think you and I both agree we knew, even though whether you like Quay or don't like Quay, pretty sure he's gone. The money made that an obvious.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

I like Quay Walker. I wish he was still going to be in Green Bay, me too. But those dollars, um, that's where it goes uh across the the desk of the financials, and then they say, well, that's not doable. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

It's just not gonna happen. Yeah, so the keeps concern me, but to your exact question, I would say what I 100% agree. It's funny. I just said a minute ago. I gotta be dumb enough to not agree with everything you say. No, I'm gonna agree with what you said. Um I I agree there's no way that Brian Gudakun's just going to the field in 2026 uh with a football team that looks like this football team, right? I think we all know that that that that's gonna change. Now, whether that's a big splash, I'm with you. Uh we mentioned it before we came on air. I think a big splash might be there only because I also don't see this being a scenario where you're gonna go out and pick up some street free agents, some second-tier guys, and draft a guy and think, oh, now I've got a defensive line, right? Because uh we we're gonna need help for Parsons. I think we all know we need help in the secondary, and the offensive line's not ready. So you have, I think, really those three primary areas of need, and you gotta believe at least one of them's gonna be splashy. I don't know what the dollars are, maybe you do are, but as you mentioned, like they cleared a lot of money. Yeah, and you didn't clear a lot of money to then go out and get second or third tier guys.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

So think of the Rashawn Gary deal. They save$11 million in 2026 and$31 million off the books next year. So those make a difference. When they release Nate Hobbs, it's a post-June 1 release. That will clear more money. They do it June 1, they'll spend more cash between now and then, but it clears more money when they do it um at post-June 1. So there are dollars available for them to go out and do some things. They don't have a first-round draft choice. So what they're gonna do is gonna happen in this window, andor the Packers have been very good, I think, over the years in shopping in the discount aisles. And I think that they've done well, similar to the Brewers. Uh, I think they've been a good organization because I think their scouting department, their player personnel department is well versed. This this comes from the Ron Wolf tree and certainly the Ted Thompson tree, that their scouting department is upper echelon. Now, some would argue it hasn't worked out that way in the draft, but I do think it's worked out that way many times in the discount aisle and free agency. And I think the Brewers are the best example of it, but I don't want to mix uh who it is we're talking about. And also, and um Alex sends in, have to imagine we'll have uh a big splash cornerback coming. St. Juice is one of those guys. He's a he is a Ted Thompson-sized corner. He's 6'3, he's rangy, he's been very good. He I I think I saw this earlier today. He was credited with zero missed tackles in 2025.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

All right, all right.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So start there. A guy who's gonna come up in run support, and when he does, he had no missed tackles. Right, yeah, I had a missed tackle this morning. I mean, he had none. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:30

Yeah, I would say to your point, Mike, I do think the front office does a great job. I do think they're they're relatively good talent evaluators. It's funny. I have a good friend uh who's funny. Yeah, I guess, right. I mean, knowing you, yeah, I know, right? I've actually got a couple, anyhow. Um, but he's a big believer in the fact that he's not a goody coons guy. And then um, we sat down and went through like the last six, seven, or eight drafts. And actually, when you go through it, yeah, it's a lot better than you think it is. Oh, it is. Oh, it actually goes the other way. It's actually because also like he was a he was really anti-Gutie, and then you start going through it, he's like, you know, that's actually pretty good, and that's pretty good, and that's pretty good. Where I think they've done a remarkably poor job, and this won't surprise anybody on listening to this podcast, it is on the upper end. Sure. Frankly, I just don't think we've done a great job, probably on the on the on the front end of the draft.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Dig into that a little bit. Sure. Rashawn Gary's a first rounder. Yeah. And Rashawn Gary was a disappointment from high school to college. He was perhaps the number one recruit in America when he went to Michigan, certainly on the defensive side of the ball. Never lived up to that billing. And then Green Bay, again, was looking to say, hey, let's see. We we think this guy's gonna be that guy. And in Green Bay, he never was. I would argue that many times he was close. Yeah, to me, he's a half stepper, Courtney. He's been a half step away from being great. He got a lot of pressures. Pressures are stats that people don't look at nearly as much, they look at sacks. He got a lot of pressures, but he was always a half-step away from being great. And I think that's one of the things Micah Parsons, two things Micah Parsons does that Rashawn Gary either couldn't or won't. And there's a delineation between the two. The won't part means, and I have no idea, but I just watch the evidence. Did he work hard enough to have that final step? Like when you're a half-step slow, you've got to rectify that or live with being a half step slow. I think he lived with being a half step slow. So, first rounder didn't work. Lucas Van Ness is another first rounder, 13th overall selection. It was a reach. Most people thought in the moment it was a reach. I don't dive headlong into draft research, but I trust the people that do. So, Chad Ryder, who we'll talk to um with NFL.com when we get to draft time, Chad's been somebody I've turned to over and over and over again over the course of time. I think even he thought that Lucas Van Ness could be good, but a pretty significant reach where the Packers drafted him in the top half of the first round of the draft. So there, when we're talking about high-level guys, Green Bay's not been great.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

Well, and a couple things you said there, like, you know, I don't want to be the guy who jumps under Shanghai. You say he's a half-step guy, half step slow. Yeah, you know, that's me. I'm I'm probably a three-quarter guy, three-quarter step slow. I was thinking of step and a half, but that's okay. We're all right, we're on the same page. We're on the same page. Um, what I'd say is what it feels like, and I know it's a little cliche, a little trite, it feels like he's not a half step slow when that next contract's coming. True. Frank's your point on the can't or won't. Yeah, because let's face it, the Packers didn't re-up and bring him back for that money because they thought he wasn't ever going to get there. They they saw it and we all saw it. But then when he doesn't have Micah Parsons, and frankly, what it feels a little bit like is when the money is already in the bank. Yeah, it feels like that half step shows back up. So there's that. Yeah, you know, the Lucas Van S thing I was sharing with you, my son went to Iowa State when we took Van S. He said, So just so I'm clear, we just spent the 13th pick on a rotational defensive lineman from Iowa. That's what we just did. Correct. A guy who couldn't get on the field there. And my concern a little bit with both of those guys, and and I talk about this a lot with buddies of mine around football, is I get concerned when people fall in love with measurables. And I do think Goody at times falls in love with measurables because that's that's how you get to Rashawn Gary, and that's how you get to Lucas Van S. I was, I was thinking about this yesterday. Like, I don't feel like anybody in the NFL plays money ball. Uh you know, and when I think about money ball as a badger fan, I think, man, like look at look at Zach Bond, look at TJ Edwards, look at Van Ginkel, like look at now, granted, I was naming Badgers because that's for that that right, that's where my fandom lies, and that's what I have the most knowledge of. And I feel like instead of playing money ball in some of those top end picks, what we're playing is ooh, but look at what this guy could be. And we're not asking enough questions on yeah, but why? Yeah. Why hasn't he been?

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Right. And they both feel like, why hasn't he been guys? Um, and that's my other statement uh to you on you know, I'm a little more concerned about who we're keeping than who's leaving. Like, I assume we're not pinning our defensive end hopes on Lucas Van Es again this year. All I heard last summer was he's he looks better, he's making the leap. Frankly, no, no shade on Micah Parsons. Micah Parsons said, Oh, wait till you guys see LVN. Like, wait till you see him, wait till you see him, wait till you see him. And then uh football season came, and we all went, Yeah, but we've we've seen this, we've seen that. We've seen this, yeah. That's what we saw. Maybe you haven't seen it before, but we've all seen him. This is what it looks like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Yeah, to me, that's a big part of what Green Bay's offseason um has to shape up to be is they're gonna have to find some answers because the the out of all of the moves, you you talk about some worry about the guys that they've kept. Out of all the moves, the ones that that I would place together are Gary, Wooden, Enigbari, and Walker. So I don't think they got better on the on the trade on the acquisition of Zaire Franklin. I think they got a better leader, but uh my guess is that he's a placeholder. He's he's gonna be 30 when they when they're in camp, which is old on good kunst standards. He doesn't have many 30 years old players. You know who the most tenured player is on the Green Bay roster today?

SPEAKER_02 23:28

The front uh offense defense, the the whole roster.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Jordan Love.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

It is Jordan Love. Well, there we go. Jordan Love is the most tenured Green Bay Packer in the moment. This is this is uh consistently the most the youngest team in the NFL, or in that one, two, or three youngest teams in the NFL. So I don't they didn't get better, in my opinion, no, on Zaire Franklin. Uh they got cheaper and they got a leader, right? Right? So they had to save some money and they got a leader. And I think their next inside linebacker is not on their roster today. He is uh waiting for the draft.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

You know, it's funny. Uh Goody, right? You you mentioned this a couple days ago. I was listening to the podcast. I have been listening, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Hey, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Every day, not just on Monday. I've been listening.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Okay, yeah, because it is an everyday podcast. It's a daily podcast.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

It is. Um, and uh what else is when you when you think about like uh getting younger and doing that, I was listening to daily talking about like Goody, right? Get young, stay young. Yeah. So opposite of Greg, what Greg Gard always says, yeah, get old, stay old. But I'm with you. Uh, you know, bringing in the linebacker from Indy, I think definitely the plan here, right? Is he's a placeholder. I expect they'll draft a couple linebackers, a couple young guys bring him up, and this is a one or two year stop gap. So I would agree. If you look across the board, have not yet gotten better. I'm not so sure that some of the guys that are leaving won't be additioned by subtraction. I don't think we're gonna miss Hobbes. I don't think we're gonna, in the end, I hope we don't miss Rashawn Gary. I hope we find a replacement there. I think Wooden could be, frankly, Wooden and Walker could be the two biggest losses in that group.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Walker, because let's basically, you and I I think are both on the same page. Offensive line is not at a point where you could be a competitive NFL football team as it sits today. I don't think. Do you think this is a competitive offensive line?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Um as it sits right this minute? Not as it sits this minute. To me, their best offensive lineman is Zach Tom. Yep. They think I believe that they think by the moves that they've made that Jordan Morgan is the anchor of the line at left tackle. Clearly. Now he doesn't have great positional versatility, neither does Sean Ryan. Those have been traits that the Packers have looked for. Zach Tom can play any position on the offensive line. Elton Jenkins, they moved from a really, really high caliber guard to a center, and he never lived up to that billing. They they loved his positional versatility, but they moved him to a spot that he underachieved at. So I I like Rasheed Walker, and I really like Elton Jenkins as a guard. Yep. And now they're both gone. And I don't know, I know who I think they believe their best offensive lineman is in Jordan Morgan, but I don't believe it's anybody other than Zach Tom. And Zach Tom is an injury question right now. Right. So yeah, that to me, that's a huge question, Mark, for Green City.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

So you're not ready to go on the offensive line as we sit today. Correct. You're not ready to go on the defensive line as we sit today.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

No, you'd have to play seven on seven right now and take the lines out of play.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Right. So to the fans out there who are concerned, you're not ready to go in the secondary. I think we're all happy at safety, but we're not ready to go on the defensive backfield today. Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Um, I think at your skill positions, you're still pretty comfortable. I love Romeo Dobbs, but I think they're they're very comfortable with the skill positions. You're yeah, you got your quarterback, you got your running backs, you got your wide receivers. But there's a lot of work to be done um with this football team. And I think the thing we all have to all bet on this goes back to what you started with is Brian Gudacoust has a plan.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

We're none of us are gonna be privy to the plan, obviously. It's funny relating this to badger football back when things were really going bad last fall. I had a lot of friends who are like, you know, well, they tell us they haven't done this and this, and Matt comes out and says this, but what's the plan? And I kept saying, Well, they're not gonna, yeah, nobody's gonna tell you their plan, right? Goody, goody, he doesn't really care. Let's just be honest, he doesn't care if the fans are nervous, right? They know their plan, they know their talent, they know the direction they're headed. Um, but I think it's fair right now as a fan to have a lot of questions, and I 100% agree with you. We talked about before the call, like um or before the show. I do think a splash is coming. Yeah. Like if it let me tell you right now, if it if it's Trey Hendrickson, uh I think people will lose their minds. I don't think it's gonna be that big a splash. No, I think you can either him and Micah across from each other. I almost then don't care who's playing between them. So Florida just to be fair, Florey Florey. Then I can line up at Noah. Correct. Right. If they're gonna put those two guys on the end.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Florio pro football talk, some uh don't like him. I I actually think his information is good all the time. I think he's super super wired in. Uh, some people don't like his opinion and the fact that some fandom does leak through. Like he hasn't always shown that he doesn't love Minnesota and and is a little anti-packer, didn't like Aaron Rodgers. Regardless, he just uh posted that Trey Hendrickson not signing with somebody in day one is a bit of a surprise, but it just means that the financials haven't been met. He's asking for big money. Yeah. And he didn't sign with somebody, which doesn't happen till tomorrow anyway, but we all know how this works. He didn't sign with somebody because somebody's not willing to meet that number yet, and it only takes one. It does. So there are 31 franchises that will make a potentially make a move on him. Somebody's gonna meet his number. I don't know that the big splash in that regard comes from Green Bay. I don't know if Russ Ball can clear what that number looks like because then you'd have two guys on both edges that are extraordinary numbers in Micah Parsons and Trey Hendrickson. Does he get a bigger? There's no way he gets a bigger number. The only reason he would get bigger is that it's a year later and the cap went up.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Right. And that's what I always worry about in the NFL. Like I don't want to overpay for him. Right. And let's just be clear, he's not Micah Parsons. Yeah. I mean, right. That's my opinion. Yeah, I don't think he is. I don't think Max Crosby is. I don't think those guys are Micah, so you'd hate to overpay. And to your point, you said earlier, like bad teams tend to overpay and keep making mistakes. So I think there's a chance you actually see a be it a Raiders, be it a Jets, be it somebody who and then if you're Trey Henderson, you have to ask yourself the question like, well, what's what's the most in what is the most important thing? Yeah. Um, so it'll be interesting to see. And you're right, it might not be that big a splash, but it isn't gonna be second, third tier guys that we fill this roster with.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

He can't be. Uh Alex and Antioch uh sent in, right? That was the one you you posted. He he said he likes Zaire uh Franklin in dropbacks. Like uh he's a he's a good drop linebacker. Uh he's also a captain, he's been a captain in Indianapolis for five years. So you you traded out for a significant leader in the in on that front. By the way, for those watching, whether it's on YouTube or X, uh, that are in the live portion of the program, uh, go ahead and send your messages in. Uh, the very capable uh and talented Ben Bano then puts those on the stream. We'd love to have interactions, so please uh do that as we roll through. We'll jump back into Packers. Uh, I'm not uh completely leaving that for now, but I want to get back to it. I want to transition into you you brought up Badger football. And I I re-looked at what their schedule looks like this year. They're gonna open with Notre Dame uh at Lambeau. That's a Notre Dame home game, but the tickets are about a 50-50 split and available. Then they go directional twice with western Illinois and eastern Michigan both at home. I think the most important game of the season, if you want to talk about two of them, to me, two of them come in the month of September. At Lambeau against Notre Dame and then at Penn State to open the Big Ten season three weeks later. If Wisconsin is two and two after four games, you've got a little bit of a problem. They'll be able to make up for it, but it will not steal in one of those games, and I do I would call it a steal if you stole one of those two games. Now consider uh your former Iowa state leader is now in charge of Penn State. Um but Notre Dame at Lambeau and in Happy Valley on September 26th. So you will bookend the month of September, beginning with Notre Dame and ending with Penn State. My view of it, early view, I think the Badgers are a lot better. I think that they've done some things we'll get to in a moment, that make them a lot better. But you almost have to, is not fair to say in the month of March. But to me, looking at it on paper today, I feel like you need to get one of those two games as a win, Notre Dame or Penn State. If you did that, you would leave the month of September at 3 and 1 with a soft schedule coming up. Michigan State at home, then a bye week at UCLA, USC at home, and at Iowa. So you're going to end October with two very difficult games, home and away, USC and Iowa. I know you got strong feelings about UW. Let's talk about this.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah. So, first of all, uh, yeah, if my buddy Ben Bailey's listening, he's a big dome fan. He said, All I want from this show is the clip of what you have to say about Wisconsin-Notre Dame if it happened. If you guys have talked about your football. Okay. So Wisconsin by 30, Ben. There you go. Anyhow. I promised him I'd say Wisconsin by 30 because he knows I'm the ultimate homer. So uh I don't disagree with you. Good news is uh my wife and I are headed to the Penn State game. Yeah. We always win when I go on the road. Okay. So we should be fine then. Where have you been the last couple of years? Yeah. Uh I I was at Rutgers. Oh, good job. Well, well selected. Actually, me and some badger fans west, we were at Rutgers. Um, you know, I do have strong feels about that. Like I agree with you. I don't know that have to is the right word. I think in that Notre Dame game, one of the things you have going for you, always pretty obvious statement, first game of the season.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:21

Um in the NIL transfer portal era, um, Notre Dame has a lot less to figure out than we do. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you, like, oh, Notre Dame's not ready. But let's just be honest, everybody's got new rosters, everybody's figuring things out. So I think it's a real advantage to catch them game one. So your point, if you're gonna steal one, yeah, game game ones when you steal one, okay. I think at Penn State, to your point, uh, Matt Campbell uh obviously did a great job at Iowa State, but let's be honest, um, they essentially had a recruiting class of zero. Everybody left. Yeah, he had to bring half of Iowa State with them. And it's not that Iowa State isn't a good football program, uh, but I think we would all say that when I look at Penn State, and I imagine Penn State feels this way, they brought Matt Campbell there. You know, they want to be successful in 2026. They're probably realistic about what this looks like. So, to your point, I do think that you're catching both these at a time when if you could steal one, this would be the time. I don't think you have to. I mean, let's just be honest. The schedule, um, what did I see? We play every single Big Ten team that didn't make a bowl game last year. Is that correct? So think of these. I mean, the schedule sets up still really nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

A home game against Michigan State, home game against Rutgers, and a home game against Minnesota. The road games, other than Penn State, are at UCLA, not very good. Yep, at Iowa, very good. And they've been a problem. Yep. Um, and then at Maryland, at Purdue consecutive weeks in November. Right. So if if you can have to, I did change my have to to need to.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Okay. So I just want to clarify need to Notre Dame or Penn State. I think they need one of those. Yeah, I think they need them as much, Courtney, in internally, I think they need those. Now, you're not gonna lack for any confidence from Mason Poser or Cooper Catalano and some of the other. I mean, they exude confidence. For sure. But I think as a roster, a Notre Dame win or a Penn State win is significant. So need more than have uh for me in those. But there are there are doubters, there are doubters out there. Let me let me speak to the doubters on Wisconsin football. And this will be proven out. Listen, none of this happens here. It will happen on Saturdays and a Sunday to open against Notre Dame, but then it'll happen on 11 other Saturdays. They they get to prove it. Yep, but we get to talk about what they have to prove or what they have the opportunity to prove. So I won't say what I believe. I'll give you what Ted Kellner said.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Last year, I'm not doing a radio show in November when this information came up. But Ted went on radio shows and he said, currently, we're bottom third in the Big Ten in football player spending. Next year we'll be top third. Yep. Now, I'm not saying that, hey, they've spent more money. I'm telling you that their lead, the guy who the new practice facility is named after, he is front and center. He's number one. If he's out there saying we've been bottom third in the Big Ten in football player spending, I have a question on that. I think it's true, and I have no idea why. It wasn't as though you didn't know. Right. I mean, you you you know what it takes to have the players that allow you opportunity to win. You spent on a coach. Some love the coach, some love the hire, many love the hire. But if you then didn't provide him the resources to acquire and retain the players that allow you to compete, and I'm not gonna sit here, Courtney, and argue that that's the only reason that they haven't won. There have been other reasons. Part of it is coaching, part of it was an initial offensive coordinator hire, part of it is injuries. They all meld together. There's a recipe to winning, there's a recipe to losing. The Badgers had that recipe for losing pretty good. I mean, every you could laminate it and send it off to your friends because that one plays. Yep. They have to switch the script. And Ted Kellner told you, all of us, that you are bottom third in the conference. There are 18 schools. That means you were no better than 13th in spending for players. And he also said we're gonna be top third next year, which is now this year. There's no transparency in college athletics. So we never get a report that this is what the Dodgers spent. We don't get that report. This is what Ohio State spent, this is what Wisconsin spent. I'm just going by Ted Kellner. He said bottom third, now he says top third. Okay, let me list the top third as I would get it, and then I'll let you jump in. Okay. Um Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, USC, Oregon, and the national champion, undefeated Indiana. Those would be the six. We don't know it because it's not transparent. Right. Those would be the top six. Ted Kellner has said, we're gonna be top third. Math, that means top six.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

So the question there just in that part would be who if you're actually gonna be top six, yeah, who are you gonna outspend? And that'd be a fair question as a doubter fan. And I should probably go on record as saying so that people know where I'm coming from, like, I I am uh I'm a believer. People who know me know I've been a fickle believer since the hire. Uh, I'm not off the bandwagon. I think they're still headed that way. So to your question, like, who are you gonna outspend? You're right. Um, there's not transparency there, so we don't know. Right. Um, but Ted Kellner was pretty transparent, and let's just be honest. He's got he's got no reason to lie. He's one of the guys right in the trust. Mark Cuban's been, if you listen to Mark Cuban, he's been pretty transparent. Matter of fact, he said after the national championship game, uh, if you think they were happy with the budget uh last year, you should see what I gave him for Christmas this year. Okay. So we know he's doling out money. Correct. Phil Knight's been pretty transparent. So I'm with you, we don't have documentation like we do in professional sports. Yeah, but we've got people who are spending the money who are pretty clear about the money being spent.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

You know, so I don't know if we'll actually end up top third or not based on what Ted said. But I will tell you this, I don't think any of us doubt, and you can already see it by the roster that's been compiled, there's been additional resources given to the program. Um, one of the things that somebody said to me that's a real challenge, or maybe I listened to on a podcast, or who knows where my brain goes every day, was talking about how when you have the struggles the badges I've had the last two years, one of the challenges with then getting resources is you have to pay a suck tax. Yes. Okay, so yeah, we have to theoretically we had to overpay for Colton Joseph. Yeah, we theoretically, if you're a Colton Joseph guy and you believe that his other options were like Florida State and you know, old man or whatever those schools were. Correct. Like, yeah, like maybe Fick and Grimes went in and they had a great story, but at the end of the day, you're a guy who's going to a program that has been winning, and you're gonna you're gonna say, Yeah, but I'm gonna need a little more.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

And two years ago, Indiana had to pay the suck tax, even correct, right? Yeah, they brought a lot of guys from James Madison, they did, but they still had to pay a suck tax to get others to come there to the losingest program in college football history.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Right. And I mentioned the suck tax because people are, I hear people who are in the doubter category, as you said, they're like, Well, we're spending in the top third, and you're telling me the a fair kind of you know, ceiling or floor for this team is seven or eight wins. Yeah. Well, yeah, because of the suck tax, right? And I can just tell you if you continue to get those resources and you do get seven or eight wins, then every year hopefully you have to pay a little less of that tax. Yes, and you and you can grow it. You know, and so I do think you still have to look at this schedule and say to yourself, look, I mean, they're they're probably not gonna win 10 games. I mean, I'm a huge homer, and I'm telling you, like, probably not. You probably don't go from there to here. Now, that said, uh, teams do it and it happens. Um, I do believe that uh the things they're doing with Grimes, I think uh, I think we're all pretty excited uh potentially about what we're seeing. Um and I'm drawing a blank on our new offensive line coach's name.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah, you can't do that to me because that's that's where I'm gonna do it. I'm drawing a blank too.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

But I did I did listen to uh the Badger Connect do an interview with them. Sounds exciting, sounds like the things we want, sounds like things that frankly Badger fans uh kind of crave. Yeah. Um, and and really, I'll I will tell you, you know, I I challenge the doubters because I really feel like um I don't know that people are doubters in the state so much as there's a lot of people who are still really mad about how we got here. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Like I really feel because they because they weren't done, Eric Mateos. Thank you, Eric Mateos. Yep. So they they weren't done with Chris at some, and then everybody else, the ones that were, and were okay with that. Jim Leonard was the chosen one, and you didn't go there.

SPEAKER_02 42:26

And you didn't go there, right? And then you brought in somebody and they went to a whole new style. And man, if I have to hear one person say this isn't badger football, you're like, okay, we all agree that that was uh that was a disaster. Um, that transition for many, many reasons didn't work out. Injuries, obviously being one of them. Um, so we all see that. But the thing I will say, and I think we finally saw this at the end of last year, and this is where I have hope. So for the doubters, I'll tell you where I have hope. Uh Fickle talks about us a lot. Were you better at the end of the season than you were at the start? Yeah. Okay. Last year they were. Last year they were. His recruiting classes, the Catalanos, the Posas, the guys that he's brought in. Yeah, you have to keep in mind in football, like guys don't very few guys do what Mason Posa does at any position and start as a true freshman. Yeah, let's just be honest. I mean, it it's a sliver of the guys, okay. His guys are really just starting to take the field.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

The guys that buy into him. Let me let me touch in on that. Yeah, go ahead. Because we're talking about them being better at the end. They got better when Mason Posa and Cooper Catalano were on the field as starters. Agreed. That didn't happen until Oregon, right? And they were they were really good at Oregon, probably if their offense can do anything, and their offense was you you want to talk about paying a suck tax. The the offense should have paid in in, you know, when they file for 2025 taxes. The offense owes money, the defense gets a refund. Agreed, right? So the offense was terrible. Yep. Uh but that that team and that defense when Mason Posa and Cooper Catalano were installed as okay, they got better. Yep. That's the thing. And I've I've visited with both of them. Uh Jesse Temple has done a great job at Badger Connect on giving you insight to both of them. They're fantastic. And both of them, Posa is more outward with it. He is brimming with confidence. And it's all out there. Like he doesn't he doesn't keep it to himself. He's not just sharing it at home. He's ready to tell you how that they're gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Oh, yeah. And I don't want to transition this to basketball, but I but I love comparing and trusting. Uh they're Nick Boyd nolan winner. Yes. Yeah, because yeah, I keep saying to people, what Nick Boyd brings to uh basketball is really what uh Mason Posa brings to the football team. Yeah, and it's it's swagger and outward confidence. Correct. People talk about Nick Boyd's ability to score and all these things. What Nick brings to me as much as anything is that like he he will go out there and state we're gonna do this and we're gonna do that, right? You listen to Mason Posa and you look, I've listened to Mason be interviewed. I'm going to start as a freshman, I'm going to be an all-American. I'm going to be a first-round draft pick. This program's going to win. Yeah. Like that's who he is. Okay. And I think, let's just be honest, you can like fickle or hate fickle, but that's why him and Mason Posa, I think, are kindred spirits. Because Fickle never wavers from like, no, we're going like the like you don't believe me, but they will have like we're going to do that, right? Um, when I say that about Cooper Catalan, you tell Catalano's the Wisconsin guy. Yeah. Right? Hard on the sleeve.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Yeah. Right. Really passionate about it. I know Nolan Winter's a Minnesota guy. Yeah. But if you go back to early in the season when Minnesota, when he sat at that press conference, no one wintered in pride, yeah, said Wisconsin fans deserve better than this.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Well, that's Cooper Catalan, right? So when you put those two guys together, that's what you get. Yeah. And I and I think we all believe this. Like you can move a program a long way with a few guys that believe. Yeah. And we'll never know really what happened during the transition. I've heard stories now about the transition.

SPEAKER_03 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:11

There was, I think, a lot of guys who either A didn't believe, B, there's been some weird rumors of some guys who frankly got kind of the shaft by the university. You don't need to get into those rumors. Yeah. They were out there. Yeah. But the other thing I think you had is just like there were fans who were mad about the transition, there were players who were mad. I think that locker of the first year season or two, um, as somebody who wasn't in it, was remarkably divided. I mean, I really do believe that was the case.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Uh there's to me, there's no doubt. We we have that um when we were doing post-game interviews, uh, there was a divide. Last year there was no divide.

SPEAKER_02 46:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

And you could see it. And you could see it, and you could feel it, and you heard it. Like I have the luxury or the benefit of being either in on the road or right next to the locker room at home post-game. And I'm the first one that talks to Luke Fickle after he leaves the locker room before he goes to the press conference. He does um our Badger Football Radio Network interview with me. Okay. So I hear it. I can hear the locker room. Um and there are things that I can't share, sure, but there's also a sentiment that I can share. Last year was so much different than 2024. I can't put it into words how much better. Doesn't mean they didn't have some some bad games. Sure. Because they did. But the locker room for a guy that's just around it one day a week, because we're not in there Monday through Thursday. Um not like this show. Correct. Or you're here every day. Monday through Friday, even though I love Mondays, for a little bit of my professionalism, Mike. Yep. Um, I I I I see and and I also believe now they're gonna have to be uh Joseph's gonna have to be really good at quarterback. He's gonna have to run, he's gonna have to do the things that they brought him in to do. The offensive line's gonna have to continue to be better. Yep, and wonder about who that lead running back is has been a little bit. Now you go back to Jonathan Taylor uh to the last time Wisconsin had an elite lead running back. And when you go Taylor and go backwards, they had an elite lead running back seemingly forever.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Yes, yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

And uh they're a little devoid in that department, so we'll see who steps up there. Well, but I like all of it and they'll prove it or they won't. And listen, this is this is simple. This is not an opinion. I think I think it's it's an opinion, but it's it's a it's fact adjacent. This is a prove it year because if it doesn't get proven, then there will be a change.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Yeah, I think so. A couple things to put a bow on this. I don't know if we're gonna transition something else or not, but I'll just say a couple things. One, what you said, you know, I remember Fickle saying towards the end of the year in one of his press conferences, and I don't remember exactly which game it was, but that POSA got up and a couple of the other players got up at halftime and kind of led the halftime speech. And he said that was the first time since he'd been here that that had happened, right? And so your point about it being different in the locker room, you you have guys. Um, and I don't think he's the only guy. I talked about there's a lot of people who don't, I'm guessing you don't think Carter Smith's ready to be the starting quarterback. Most people don't. What Carter Smith brings to the table, though, I think is very similar to what Mason Posa brings to the table. You you saw it in those couple weeks. People can talk about what Carter Smith needs to get better at. Yeah, it isn't confidence in his ability, and it's not swagger, and it's not a somehow we're gonna win this football game. Yeah, you look at those games, he didn't do anything by the numbers that were amazing, right? But boy, when you needed a first down, when you just needed a play, he got it, right? So you get enough of those guys, things take a turn. Do your statement on like it's a prove it year. I don't disagree with you. I will say this. Now hold on. Anytime says I don't disagree, they're about to disagree. No offense, but yeah, um I don't know that we know what prove it is. What we think prove it is might not be what his boss thinks prove it is. Sure. And okay, because in our world, prove it is fans, are there's only one thing that's proven, and that's wind.

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Well, yeah, it's a number, but it's also ticket sales and and are people enthused. So let's say let's say at the end of 2026, this team goes seven and five. Is seven and five a ticket seller? Like, are people encouraged? That's why I said they need, don't have to. I changed my term. Sure, need Notre Dame or Penn State because I think that sells tickets, because it sells, hey, uh, this is who they can be. And for most of the season they showed they still missed on some. But I look at I look at Notre Dame, Penn State, USC, and Iowa and say, you've got to find a way to win some of those games. Wisconsin doesn't have those. Now they stormed the field against Washington and Illinois. Neither one really dirt deserved that. Right. Neither one was really that was a release. It was a release. But if you beat Penn State or USC or Notre Dame or on the road at Iowa, those games then buoy the ticket buying fan base. And I think that's part of the prove it. Because there can be a seven and five in which you lose all four of those games. And I don't know if that's enough to prove it for the ticket buying fan base. Okay, so I'll take the I'll I'll take the other side here because I'll say this.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

So you're seven and five, okay? Yeah. You blow out Minnesota, you just roll up points on the directional schools. You go to Maryland, you handle them. Yeah. And then uh Penn State, uh, Notre Dame, Iowa, USC, yeah, you lose by a combined 12. Yeah, they're all one score games. Then are you still excited? Because let's just be honest, like if you're really competitive in those games, you're sitting there thinking, boy, you're just to play, just to play, just to play. And then the teams that you really should beat, you went out and you actually beat them. You didn't you didn't squeak by, you beat them.

SPEAKER_01 52:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

So that's my point. On I don't know that it's all wins and losses. I don't disagree with you that it helps. I mean, let's just be honest, it obviously it helps. Yeah. But I but I do think there's another path. And I'm also a believer that, like, I look, people say that you know, Macintosh's job is tied to Fickle's job. I I personally don't believe that. I don't think you're gonna take a guy who makes one bad hire and get rid of him over one bad hire if you believe it ended up being a bad hire, especially not when you look at the state of the rest of badger athletics right now. Yeah, but where I do think they're tied together is I do think Chris McIntosh knows that they haven't given Luke Fickle the support he needed. Yeah, I do think they're trying to rectify that. And I do think, frankly, from an outside looking in, and I've said this to a lot of people if you are going to fire Luke Fickle, you better have a real good game plan, and you better be able to sell to somebody else that they're going to get the resources that you didn't give this guy. And because what let me tell you what you can't be you cannot be Michigan State. I forget what the exact number is. I went back and looked, yeah, it's like 12 coaches in 17 seasons, right? And D'Antonio was like eight of them or something. Yeah. So if you're going to make that move, even at the end of this year, you better be real sure because you can't keep moving, and you've got to find somebody where you can prove to that guy we're gonna give you what we didn't give this guy, and who's gonna buy that right that has other options?

SPEAKER_01 53:36

In most cases, most, because many times uh colleges and universities are impatient. In most cases, coaches fire themselves. Agreed. So if if that were the eventuality, because I think Paul Chris fired himself.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Oh, I think there's no doubt Paul Christ fired himself. I mean, when you hear, I'll never forget the interview with Macintosh where he said they met for their weekly and he had no intentions of firing Paul.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

I I will always maintain that that's my belief that uh that that Sunday morning meeting was not intended to be uh we're firing our head coach. Mac essentially said it.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

And the reality of it, my assumption of that has always been that Mac saw things that he thought needed to be changed. He shared that view with with Paul, and Paul told him essentially, I don't agree. I'm not making those changes, I don't agree. And Mac went and got lunch and came back and said, uh we're gonna we're gonna move.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

Yeah. We know there was things in the portal that weren't being taken care of. Okay. Um and I would say uh that there were other head coaches in college football last year that were fired that didn't fire themselves. Yeah, that the university got impatient. James Franklin. One of them is James Franklin at Penn State. Because I don't know that that was an earned firing. I think they just said, okay. And and I don't think they got better with Matt Campbell. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Well, no way, but to your point, real quick on the James Franklin thing, I would just say that it feels like they had been looking for a reason to fire James Franklin. I don't really understand why for for quite a while. Yeah, and this really relates to what I was saying about Fickle. I I love Matt Campbell. My son went to Iowa State. We love we watched Matt. I think Matt's a very, very, very good football coach. Yeah, he was not their first choice, yeah. Okay, and then they had clearly was not Penn State's first choice. And then they clearly had to overpay for Matt Campbell because they missed on this guy and missed on this guy and missed on this guy. Well, here's my concern with Wisconsin, right? This is exactly what I'm talking about. That's Penn State. And you've got your high-end coaches are going, yeah, but you just ran that guy. He had you in the playoff a year ago, and you just ran him out of here.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

And now you'd like me to come. Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Right? No, thank you. Um, let let's uh let's touch on one other thing. Let me uh Ben, let's touch on sponsors here before I go to one final point. And uh this hour goes too fast. Today, to me, it's gone too fast. Let me touch on sponsors and thank those who are involved with the show. And we'll begin by thanking the neuroscience group. Excellence in brain, spine, and pain care, back pain. If that's part of what's holding you back at neuroscience, their spine specialists offer personalized care therapy to advance surgical options so you can get back to doing what you love. Neuroscience group, we've got your back. See what they did there. Neuroscience group.com. That's where you'd go to find out more information. Please support our sponsors as we appreciate as you support us. Uh, the I Love Monday show, which is five days a week, Monday through Friday, is presented by M3 Insurance. Proud to serve clients across the country with world-class expertise and individual attention tailored to your business. No compromise, no matter what, with M3, you get it all. So if you're involved in management risk, insurance, and benefits for your employees, please visit our friends at m3ins.com. That's M3Insurance, M3INS.com. Show is also brought to you by Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino. Bet above the rest. It's your all sports better's spot. Head Pottawatomi Sportsbook in Milwaukee, an unmatched sports betting experience. It's got everything you need all day, every day to bet above the rest. And this program, as always, is brought to you by Habish, Habish, and Road Tear. 13 locations to ensure you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury and is personally committed to your recovery.

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Shout out to my man Jerry Brown at M3, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Is that right? I'm gonna shout out to Jeff Canats then. If we're shouting out, why not?

SPEAKER_02 57:40

I mean, I'm I don't know if I'm ever gonna get to come back, so I'm gonna do my shout out, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:43

So I mean, listen to the the early the uh yeah, I won't I won't don't oversell it. I don't I don't want to uh commit. Um obviously Jeff Vilker, uh I asked him a week ago, did he know who Wally Pip was? He said no. I said, okay, look it up. Yeah, Courtney could be Lou Gehrig. I don't know. There's a reason why I call Jeff Vilker JV, it's not just his initial.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

That's right, but no, I always you mentioned the M3 thing. My wife's company does M3. I've met Jerry through my wife, and I'm always amazed that I'll run into Jerry without her, and he always makes sure to say hi. And I'm a big relationship guy, so I thought I'd give the quick shout-out. That's really good. And just remind people those are the kind of people you're dealing with. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

And Mike Victorson, who uh who runs the company, he he's the man. Um, he is fantastic. Brad Nieber, uh, those are two of the guys that I know really well. They are uh brilliant at what they do, they built an incredibly successful company. And the only reason, the only way you build successful companies is if your partnership with your clients is strong. Agreed. And that's what M3 does. It's what it's what all of our sponsors here on the show do. So I appreciate them. Let me finish with a little um badger hoop. By the way, uh USA baseball. I know you didn't pay attention. I watched last time, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 58:59

What they charge they charge that error to Bryce Terrain? Harper can't catch that ball.

SPEAKER_01 59:03

Yeah, I don't know how that ended up being an E4. It wasn't a great throw, but it is not an error throw. I mean, it's it's off the glove without bouncing. Yeah, I mean he didn't have to come off the bag. It's not an E4.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

No, and he's on the wrong side of the bag with the back foot. I mean, I know again, I'm a homer, yeah, but I'm like, that ain't a that's not a break.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

And I don't know, they probably gave Tarang a second error on that ground ball up the middle.

SPEAKER_02 59:29

Oh, they might have.

SPEAKER_01 59:30

Um later in the game. And I know that you know, some Cubs fans are saying they got the wrong second baseman. They they want a Nico Horner.

SPEAKER_02 59:38

You said we might talk USA Mexico, so I said to my wife said, I guess I got to watch this. I guess I gotta turn this off.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

A couple of the USA players said it was the loudest game they've ever played in. Really? I didn't think that translated to the TV broadcast, honestly. But players were saying it was the loudest game environment they had ever been in. All right, which I thought is is awesome. It was in Houston, and that loud environment was the Mexican fans, not the American fans. Interesting. Uh so they they own the stadium. USA is now 3-0. Bryce Durang had another very good offensive night. Uh, I think uh to your point he got jobbed on one error. The other one, nobody was gonna get the second base. Ball takes a bad hop. He was on the shortstop side of second. He knew that his only chance was to begin coming back towards the bag as he gloved it because nobody was gonna get there for the force. Right. Anyway, uh a little uh weedy stuff of baseball. I wanted to make sure I mentioned that. Badger basketball will play at about 1.30 on Thursday. I sat down yesterday for a little cross promote. Badger Connect podcast runs on Thursdays. Last week uh we debuted with the sit-down interview with Luke and Amy Fickle, which we you and I thought we might get to that today. We didn't hold it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:48

Um so this week the sit-down is with Nick Boyd. Now I did Nick Boyd on what's called a stream yard interview. We were not in the same room at the same time. It was a Zoom stream yard um interview that will run on Thursday. I visited with him last week. I uh did the interviews when I hosted their senior night, Matt LePay MC'd the senior night. I did the interviews on the comfortable chairs.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Um and I thought Nick Boyd was good in that environment. My conversation with him that will run on Thursday for the Badger Connect podcast is fantastic. I have this dude is wired different. I have tremendous confidence and faith in him. I know that a lot of people judge a college basketball program on what happens after this Sunday. Okay, after a selection Sunday. Wisconsin finishes the regular portion of their season, 22 and 9, 14 and 6 in the Big Ten. That's fifth in the conference. Um, they'll get the winner of Washington USD Thursday at about 1.30 in Chicago. They're 26th in the net. They're a sixth seed today. I think if they play into Saturday, they could be a five seed. The selection committee pays no attention to what happens on Sunday. That game does not matter to them. It's the final game played before the committee has 30 minutes to turn in and finalize. They don't pay attention to it. So I think if Wisconsin plays into Saturday, they can be a five seed. If they play to Sunday, they're absolutely a five seed. I think the team has an opportunity to play deeper into the tournament, start with the second weekend, which they haven't been to now in a decade. And I know that's important to a lot of people, and it should be. That's been a bit of a failure. Like Green Bay, the Packers not getting home since 2010 season, 2011, playing in the final. To me, the second weekend of the NCAA tournament is to me essentially a final four. You earn that, and then it's gravy from there. I think they can get there, but it certainly helps if they're a six seed and five even better, even though five plays 12.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Yep. So many things you touched. I'm gonna have to come back because so many things you touched on there. I want to talk about the fickle thing. I I like the lots of questions about the Packers and whether or not it's just an organizational failing over the last 30 years, even though I love them to death. So lots of things to talk about there. A couple things you talked about about Badger basketball. I just want to hit on. Like one, first of all, Ben, I don't know if you caught that. Mike thinks that the interview he did yesterday was outstanding. So kudos to you. Yeah, absolutely. And you can watch it at badgerconnect.com on Thursday for free. Yeah, for free. Yeah, I just say your self-evaluation was high. That's all I'm saying. Um, I will say I'm somebody he was awesome, by the way. I didn't know that I oh you thought he was awesome. Yeah, he was awesome. Well, that's not how you said it. Anyhow, you said the interview I did. Isn't that what you heard? That's what I heard.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:43

I heard the other way.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

All right, well, I could be wrong. I'm gonna guess. Well, listen, you're critical. Yeah, I'm very critical. Yes. Yeah, so early in the season, I'll be the first to admit I was not sold on Nick Boyd. Um, it seemed a little selfish, not true point guard play. I had some concerns. Now uh I'll say this because I have some friends with the me guy, a me guy. Yep. I'm gonna call myself on this because I have some friends who will tell you this. Um, I'm not always the best evaluator basketball talent. Okay. I once said when I look at Marcus Cambi, I see Tim Duncan's future. So, like I've I'll I'll just self, you know, self-deprecate a little bit. I've been home before. Okay. Um Nick still does things where I go, dear God, pass the ball. Okay. And but that's always gonna be the case with a point guard. Okay. Yeah. To what we talked about earlier, like, no doubt when Nick has a swagger and confidence and he and he brings that to this basketball team. The other thing he brings to this team is um, and JV and I actually talked about this uh last week a little bit. I'm only gonna hear the JV portion of JV. Yeah, that's fine. Uh he the badger team that we've dealt with in the past that would go through those scoring droughts, yeah. Uh, Nick Boyd eliminates what he can do is he can eliminate those two and three-minute droughts because he can just go get his. Okay. One of the things you get with a true point, a true, true point is that you don't always have that guy. One of the reasons I think he had success with Tanja, and frankly, a little bit AJ store the year before is you had a you had a getter. You had a getter. You can go get it. Uh frankly, for half a season, uh I have we I don't need to get into all my misgivings about Johnny Davis, but for half a season, Johnny Davis was a getter. And when you have getters, it ends those droughts. And that's really what has been kind of the demise of Badger basketball, I think, in the tournament over to your point the last decade is yeah, those those droughts, not their ability when they're playing well to score, but all of a sudden, who's who's gonna be the guy right now when we need it, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

And and last year against BYU, Tanja did not have a good first half and didn't take wasn't assertive enough.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:36

And by the time he figured it out, he was ridiculously brilliant in the second half. But as we all know, it was just too late. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

And do we worry about Nick Boyd not being assertive enough at any point in time? We do not. I don't think so. My only fear with this team, my only fear, and you've said it, many people have said it, is they do feel like they play a little bit to their level of competition. And so I'll just tell you candidly like 512 is a worry. I'm not so sure I'm not happier with a six. It's almost like in some ways, is a badger opinion. You could argue the harder the path, the better off we are. Yeah. Is that fair to some?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:09

Other than early this year, they have been really good against really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:13

They've been really good against really good. And let's just face it, uh USC, Oregon, yeah, Ohio State, Indiana.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:20

Yeah. Those those four, uh, they bug you. And then the the blowout losses early to uh a BYU to a Nebraska. Yeah. The they sting.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

Who again? Both. I mean, we knew BYU was gonna be good. Didn't know who we were yet. You've got a lottery team. I think when we lost to Nebraska, we were all really concerned. I remind people of this with sports all the time. You don't really know who you've beaten or who you've lost to until the end. Until the end. Yeah. As it turns out that now the Nebraska game was still embarrassing. Yes. But you didn't lose to a traditional Nebraska team. It frankly put it back to the Packers. Everybody was so excited when we beat the Commanders and the Lions early. And as it turned out, like those were good wins, but those weren't the teams we thought they were gonna be. So you just don't know till the end. But we'll see. It's gonna be an exciting week. I'll be tuned in 1:30 Thursday. It'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be really good. Uh Nick Boyd, a consensus second team, all big 10 selection. Second team? Uh Braden Smith was Smith uh WTF, and I can swear because it's a podcast, so I could have just said the words. Yeah, but if the Nick Boyd not being on everybody's first team, yeah, I'm with you. Okay, you you know I love about this, and we do this as we close the door on today's show. Yeah, that you think this dude flies on motivation? Yeah, let that sit with him for a day and a half until they play Thursday afternoon and then Friday, Saturday at the Big Ten tournament. That Nick Boyd is not a first team, all Big Ten. Do they do it by position? I don't I don't believe so.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

Because that would be the only argument.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

Jesse Temple tweeted out uh Wisconsin point guard Nick Boyd is a consensus second team all Big Ten selection, 20.1 points per game entering the conference tournament. What a show he's put on this year. Um second team all Big Ten. I'd have had him first without a single moment of hesitation.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:19

Period. Hey, um, on our way out the door, Courtney. Yeah, fantastic. Great work. Had a blast, man. Yeah, appreciate you uh sitting in this week. Uh, it will not be your last time. Uh the the jury has deliberated. Yeah, you'll be back uh probably next Tuesday because Vilker is not coming back next week. Yeah, he's busy getting Tanner. Listen, he might not come back. The ER is key to that, by the way. Tanner. Tanner. Yeah, very nice. You're welcome. Uh Ben Bano, thank you. For those who are tuning in live, we appreciate you. Uh, thanks for being here and part of the I Love Mondays uh episode number seven, Tuesday edition. We'll be back and do this tomorrow. I believe Tom Oates is gonna be on with us tomorrow, working through some of the details. He's an OG. I love Tom Oates. And and he's an Appleton guy. Uh Oatesy tomorrow is the plan. And then uh Vinny Rettino on Thursday is uh locked in, locked and loaded on that. And then Friday working on. But I think I'm gonna go OG Wednesdays and new guy Fridays. Oh, sure. So I'll go to the under 25 crowd on Fridays, and I'm not checking birth certificates, but uh that that'd be the likely path. Uh again, thank you for being part of uh the I Love Mondays podcast on this Tuesday. Back with you again tomorrow. Courtney, thank you, and thanks for tuning in. ILM the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:44

I love Mondays with Mike Helen.