I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
Mike Heller is back talking all things sports and all things Packers, Brewers, Bucks, Badgers and beyond.
I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
I Love Mondays-Ep47, May 5, 2026
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Super-Fan Tuesday doesn't disappoint. Sal Frelick taking on some criticism as the Brewers lose game-1 in St. Louis. The Packers new QB2 is not new... turning 37 before the season starts...but we like it. and the $$$ in College Basketball is enormous, as Texas Coach Sean Miller confirms.
I love Mondays with Mike Heller.
SPEAKER_02Broadcasting line from an undisclosed bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.
SPEAKER_04All right, so this is uh this is a new test. Now, here I'm gonna need my folks on uh on the live stream, uh, like Mike, who just weighed in right out of the gate with uh uh morning, everyone. And Mike, I appreciate that. And and this is this has become a good thing. Not we've moved studio today into our main like bar room in uh in our in-house setup because I've got some other things going on. I needed to just kind of move it out here. Moving it out here requires a guy who's not very tech savvy to do a lot of tech stuff. So I don't know if you can hear me. So, Mike, just make sure that uh I'm relying on you. I listen, we'll uh double the pay that we're sending out to you previously. If you can just do an audio check for me and just let me know, hey, yeah, coming through loud and clear, kind of a thing. Or not. If it's not, well, then it'll be a fun scramble, won't it? Uh we welcome you in on a Tuesday. It's a super fan Tuesday. Haven't done this um in a little bit. Oh yeah, here we go. Uh, people coming in. That's what people do. Kyle says, Mike checked loud and clear. Uh Mike says, all good. Appreciate you guys. Thank you. Uh we haven't done a super fan Tuesday in person with uh treadmill boy. Uh so it's Jeff Vilker, aka Treadmill Boy, but I just I just call him tread or treadmill. I don't call him boy, because that would just be wrong. Um, so we haven't done it done this version in a little bit because it'd been three weeks ago now. Last week I was somewhere still in Europe, and two weeks ago we were in Wasserbillig in um in Luxembourg when I jumped up on the deck of the boat and jumped in with Matt LePay and and Super Fan Tuesday with Vilker. You know, the interesting thing about that is I was 4,000 miles away on the top of a boat on the Mosul River, which was still in port because we hadn't taken off yet, but across the river was Germany, and there were no delays. Like typically you would do something like that, and people uh verbally step on one another because waiting for me to answer the question takes two or three seconds to translate before I hear it and and go forward. It was so clean, it's ridiculous what we can do technically, and that was just with just with my iPhone. That's it. And uh StreamYard uh video connection, but it was seamless. That's crazy to me that I was that far away and it was that clean, but it was fun to do, and like I've been saying through the entire process, I appreciate you know, uh Jeff stepping in and doing shows, and it's not what he does. I mean, it is sort of now, but it's it's not what his background is. He doesn't have a media in his background, he has everything else. He's sold airplanes and I don't know what else. Well, I'll bring him in in a minute. He can tell you all the stuff he's sold. Uh, but in the meantime, let me uh do a little selling on my own and tell you about our sponsors presented by one community bank. You can go to onecommunity.bank to stop by for one of their locations for feel good banking. Proud to be partnered with one community bank. Also, with M3 Insurance, go to m3ines.com. Now, the cool thing here is if you're involved in a business in which you procure insurance or employee benefits, M3INS is your place to go. They're seamless. They make it happen, they make it work for you in your best interest, m3INS.com. Also, Neuroscience Group is a presenting sponsor. Uh, a friend of mine that I met at Brewers Fantasy Camp. We hooked up on this partnership. Neuroscience Group, if you've got pain issues uh for your health, it is uh it is the place to go for brain, spine, and pain care. Go to neurosciencegroup.com. And also, I want to talk about Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino Bet Above the Rest and my friends at Havish and Rotier. Now, with Pado, Pottawatomi, the idea last night would have been this. Once you knew that Jackson Churio was returning to the Brewers lineup, the over under total bases would have been a simple win. He did this a year ago. I think he debuted in Toronto, and I believe he also had four hits a year ago coming off the I. That I noticed more than anything as I bring in uh treadmill. Let me uh let me reach forward and flip this back a little bit so we don't see how about that beauty. Um the thing I noticed with Jackson Churio on the lineup, four hits, two doubles, two singles, all 104, 105 and above uh on exit velocity, is that his bat speed is different. Like you watch him swing, even compared to Bryce Tarang, who hit behind him in a lineup last night. Bryce has whip in his in his swing because he he you he uses looser hands on the bat and uh almost like a golf club, his hands go more vertical than straight across on the grip. Yeah. But Churio, that dude, it's it's why I can't wait to continue to see him play postseason baseball. Because when the when the lights shine bright, it seems like that dude is extra. Like there's more to his game than most.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. No, I I agree. I mean, that the exit Velo might be explained simply by the body type difference between the two. He's a he's a horse.
SPEAKER_06Yep.
SPEAKER_05But I even I thought, and we were Vinny and I were talking, you know, my new best friend. Your new pal, my new best friend.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna all get together at some point during the season, a little hard for him, but we'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_05We're talking about more Vaughn's return because Vaughn had the the appendix of the hand bones, that being a bone you don't need in the hand removed. So Soto's dealing with his couple players, and Vinny's point was there's there's bound to be some apprehension. I I would have expected the same thing from Jackson last night. Now, they're professionals, they don't bring these guys back unless they're full fucking strength. But I still would have thought there'd be a little hold back, and it was the opposite of that to your point. Well, one thing I want to mention quick on him, and the and the team let uh Leverton and Dilly covered it. His my only issue with him at the plate last year, which shame on me for having any issue with Jackson Cherio, was just pitch, you know, pitch selection, just some of the balls. Yeah, he's a chaser.
SPEAKER_04He'll swing out of the zone too often when he's not going right. And like last night, he stayed in the zone um and you know, spit on the sliders off the outside corner. When he's not going good, he's not seeing that as well, and then he'll swing at the pitches off the plate.
SPEAKER_05So that's a point of improvement, but wouldn't you expect? You've got yeah, you would expect a guy his age to maybe do that, and conversely, you'd expect him to improve to take that on as a point of improvement going forward.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. And I I always it's a great conversation with Vinny because he's been there, done that, lived it, is when players don't see the ball as well, that's when they swing at pitches out of the zone. So, and it's so odd to me that even after watching it for all these years, is that Contreras can go to seeing the ball look like a beach ball four days ago, yeah, to now, you know, swinging at pitches that are off the plate. And I mean, it didn't totally go away. Even his is that double play ball he he hit was was a killer. But even in the ninth inning, I mean he he he blistered that one, you know, but it's right at the second baseman. But it yeah, it's tricky. All right, so I kind of set this up to I wanted to run through something. People bitch a lot about Joey Ortiz, yeah, and I get it on Ren Hefo, and I'm gonna get to Ren Hifo in a minute. And the bottom of the lineup, the the guy they don't talk about that I talk about, and then people get on my ass because I'm being critical is Sal Freelick. Yeah. Let me share Sal Freelick's season so far. I know it's not a huge sample set. We're 21% of the way through a season. Um, but here's what Sal Freelick did in March: five games, three for 17, two doubles, one home run. That's a 364 on base percentage and a 775 OPS. Small sample set, five games, but that's a good start to the season. Two doubles and a home run in the first five games. In April, he started 20 games, played in 23. He hit 219, 16 to 73, one double, and the two home runs that came in a three-game weekend set, they all count. So I shouldn't do that. His on base percentage, 315 with a 613 OPS. In May, now a small sample set, smaller than March, four games, three for 14 and no extra base hits, 313 on base, 527 OPS. So let me give you averages. The league average on base percentage is 320. Okay, that's the average. So think of 340 to 350 of being good. Yeah. That's you know, okay, now we're talking, hey, this is good, this guy's really good once you get to the 340, 350, and and above. So league average on base percentage 320. League average OPS 715. So the total right now for Sal Freelick in 32 games is a 212 batting average. Those two doubles that were in March are his only no, he has three three total doubles. Yep. Two doubles in March, one in April. One double in April, no triples. Yeah. Yeah. So he's not finding any gaps, any, you know, third baseman is playing towards the the hole, it's short, and he can slap it between the third baseman in the bag and and you know, slap a little double. None of that. Yeah, zero. So his on base percentage for the season is 311, and his OPS is 629. So the OPS is almost 100 points below league average, and the on-base percentage is nine points below the league average. But a guy like Sal Freelick has to be an on-base machine. Yeah, he's got to take walks, he's got to get hit by pitches, he's got to beat out infield singles. So when we want to bitch about the production of certain players, Joey Ortiz comes to mind, and Renifo is really very similar to um Ortiz in those numbers. Renifo is hitting 188. He's got eight doubles, no homers, a 252 on base percentage, which is horrendous, and a 520 OPS. And he has been your primary third baseman. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah. So I look at the bottom of the lineup and go, all right, so they just sent Greg Jones down. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, but they don't have an answer right now in right field or at third base. And those are problems. And people give Sal Freelick a pass. I love Sal Freelick. Yeah. I love his hockey mentality. But dude cannot hit right now. Right now. I've watched his whole career. He goes, he has some streaky stuff, yeah, but he doesn't barrel the baseball very often. He's got a terrible, he doesn't barrel the baseball. I'm I'm being critical of South Freelick at my own to my own chagrin because people get after people who are critical of South Freelick. And I'm just saying, I need more from him. He's not a rookie. Yeah. I need more from South Freelick. I need we need him. Brewers fans need him to be a much better version of that guy that's playing right now.
SPEAKER_05I thought he was last year at the plate. We we don't have to talk about his defense. We don't have to talk about Joey's defense. That you know, there those are the reasons why you're hopefully in one two-run games going into mid to late innings all the time because your defense is making even the hard plays look routine. So we got we got that set with those guys. We got that set with eight of the nine guys starting and sometimes nine of nine. Right. But I do feel, and I like I I am always going to take put a lot of stock in your opinion on the technical aspects. So you coming to me and saying he doesn't barrel it up enough, you know, it's one thing to your point, it's the one thing if a guy's hitting 102, 106, 108 off the bat, and just just it's bad luck because he's hitting the ball right at guys. We all know that if you do that long enough, the average will work out. The mean will revert. But when you when you're suggesting that there are some technical flaws with the swing, you know, that that opens up this debate that is he going to get out of it or does he need to be fixed? I I felt like last year we could and did depend on Sal, obviously more than we have the first 21% of the season. But I thought he was a pretty solid contributor. But that's me watching games. I, you know, I haven't gone back and looked at. I can tell you who frustrated me last year.
SPEAKER_04You Caleb Durbin frustrated me, but yeah, but I could get it frustrating now because he's not if you're a Red Sox man, he's not doing anything.
SPEAKER_05And he didn't frustrate, he kind of matched up with where he should be in his career because he's still young, but he went into slumps hitting-wise that I feel like Sal didn't go into last year necessarily. It maybe bring it back to the beginning. I'm frustrated with Sal too because my expectations for him offensively are higher than they are for Joey. Yeah. So if you're gonna have a couple of defenders that you just play because they're gonna make all the plays, yeah, and you're gonna you're gonna concede that when they're at the plate, you're only gonna get so much out of them. Fine. But Sal's not that fucking guy. Sal, we need contribution from.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you can't just have a defensive right fielder. You can have a defensive first shortstop. That's the Omar Viscal model. Yeah, that's the 1970s and 80s shortstop model until guys like Yount and Ripkin kind of change the view of the position. Yeah. Where, hey, you know, you can actually be a good offensive player and play good defense at shortstop as well. Uh, but Joey Ortiz is that guy, he is a placeholder for Cooper Pratt. Yeah. So Cooper's coming. People want him now. Cooper is gonna be right now. I think they believe this. This is my opinion of their belief. Yeah, they believe he would be overmatched offensively, and that does damage. Typically, they talk about having a thousand plate appearances in the minor leagues to get yourself ready, 1,500, whatever that, because you need that. This sport is so totally different than the others that we pay attention to. Hockey, basketball, football. You when you're ready, you're ready. Yeah, baseball's different. You're not ready until there are rare exceptions, and Churio's one of those, and maybe Jesus Medei is another one, or Luis Lara might be another. Yeah, but they're 20 and 21 years old. Cooper Pratt is young too. He needs a little bit more offensive time. He could come up right now and do here. Here's the argument that I would hear. Tell me if you think I'm wrong. The fan would say bring him up. He can't be worse than Ortiz at the plate, and he's his equal defensively. Agreed. What damage are you doing to Cooper Pratt offensively? Psyche. Yeah. Because I think that's what we see right now with Joey Ortiz. Ortiz is just mentally gone offensively. He had a ball two nights ago. That's a three-run homer that he hits in DC. It's it was a it was two steps onto the track. I mean, in most ballparks, and if the wind's not blowing in, I mean, he barreled that. That's a home run at American Family that is beyond the bullpen. No wind. That's the kind of luck he's running into. He doesn't have an extra base hit yet. It's crazy. He's got zero extra. I talk about Freelick. Anyway, the point is the reason you don't bring Cooper Pratt up is that you can damage his psyche. And sometimes that's Kestin Hira had that. He also had holes in his swing. Yeah. But and he had early success, and then they still then found the holes in his swing. My point is Cooper Pratt's not ready for those that want him. Luis Lara is not ready for those that want him. He's also not on their 40 man. You got to make multiple changes to do that. And my day is at AA. These are next year guys. Cooper Pratt, maybe yet this year, but they want as many A-Bs in Nashville, triple A as he can get.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah, I've we've seen this with, I think it's akin to that first-round quarterback where you start him week one in the NFL. Hell, you start him season one in the NFL without the tools, most notably an offensive line. And we've seen just how that destroys quarterbacks' futures more often than not. It's incredible that the Green Bay model, and the Green Bay model hasn't caught on because most teams don't have a Hall of Fame quarterback in play and years to develop. Yeah. So I could I appreciate the same, the same dynamic can occur with bringing a player up. And hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do. Yeah. It it in all of sports. Playing quarterback in the NFL, maybe is maybe it's harder in a way, but either way, the more reps you can get, the better.
SPEAKER_04Well, by what by the way, what did you break into here? Yeah, I mean and you poured one.
SPEAKER_05I I I but I brought a second glass. And I next time you get on one of your diatribes, I'll get up and this is an angel envy uh Angels Envy single barrel. I I was so I mean my conviction, my commitment. Yeah, I didn't touch this while you were gone. Oh, because I wanted to make sure that we were having the best shows ever.
SPEAKER_04But the minute you got back in the saddle and I knew I could just because um out of that whole deal on on the shelf behind me, if I point over my left shoulder, that Weller reserve that that was yeah, that was Weller's Weller Special Reserve, perhaps one of my my favorites up there. Um yeah, that one. Yeah, oh that's why you took that. Like that Russell 13 year is also fantastic.
SPEAKER_05So the I love this. This is why we're we're BFF podcasters. Is I looked at this, I looked at the private selection, and I looked at the Russell 13. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04There's a lot of good stuff up there. Um, all right, so that's you put a lot in there, dude.
SPEAKER_05No, that's a finger.
SPEAKER_04Maybe a little more. Um, what is it? It's uh listen, we we this show knows no no time, but it's 1025.
SPEAKER_05And well, what do you want to do with Sal? I don't want to leave that conversation quite yet. And you are getting Yeli back. I mean, you want to put Sal on the fucking bench? I I'm curious. It the world's your oyster.
SPEAKER_04Um, well, here's the dilemma when Yelich comes back, and depends on how healthy he comes back. Um he's gonna be your DH. Yeah, they they're gonna be super patient, cautious with bringing Yeli back because his legs are so important to what he does. Yep. Um so that groin issue is is significant. So they're gonna be super cautious. And my guess is DH. Okay, well, that creates another problem. Oh, my buddy Craig says uh treadmill might might need to join, he's not wrong, might need to join uh remote so you have bourbon left over for the next time you. visits you know craig I will not let uh I will not let treadmill drink us to a point where you can't visit I've seen you I I know how you work here's here's to you Craig yeah chin chin yeah sure Craig's uh dealing with the little jet leg he was on our Germany France but they they spend extra time in uh in Lake Lucerne in Switzerland oh which if I've never been there oh that's your next trip you can go to Piedmont in northwest italy Lake Lucerne all the lake country yeah so good so you're gonna have Jake's Jake go ahead keep Jake Bowers he's gonna be a bat off the bench because Vaughn's gonna be playing first Jake Bowers is gonna he's gonna play a little bit more outfield and this is where I'm talking about with Freelick. Okay if if listen Pat Murphy gives shit to Freelick all the time saying hey what one of the grad school applications do you know what you have to get that application in here because the fall semester be perfect for you like he gives him Sal Freelick needs to be he needs to move the needle a little bit yeah and here's why I think this Jake Bowers needs you need his bat in a lineup not off the bench yeah okay so now Andrew Vaughn and Bowers as a platoon at first yeah I get but if if Vaughn hits he's gotta be in his bat needs to play Yelich is your DH when he comes back so you can't DH one or the other yeah so Bowers can play left field maybe he can play a little right but he's probably better suited to play left fly to right of course and if Garrett Mitchell is your most day center field yeah he doesn't have to be your everyday Churio can play center field as well it's what he where he cut his teeth what he does played that in world baseball classic so you're gonna have a four now you're gonna have a five outfielder group yep lockridge is your off the bench you know other guy but you would have Churio Bowers yeah Mitchell Freelick yeah I think you have to play it that way I I I think I think Sal he's not on notice but I would bet those conversations have happened privately where they're trying to figure out what he's doing because again I go those numbers don't lie numbers are real and he's not barreling a whole lot I don't love this gets into a Vinny conversation I don't love his back legging it you know that going down to a knee on the swing. Yeah that's that's a power hitter's move. Yeah I don't love that but whatever that's yeah that that's part of the stuff that I'm not I'm not a huge fan of oh look at Sweet Bitch was talking about our new venue.
SPEAKER_05That's my soundcheck guy.
SPEAKER_04You have your sound check guy that's my that's the guy that that told me four minutes into episode with uh Gaeli with Chris Gilmartin that there was no audio yeah um no sweet bitch this is downstairs at home so I have a uh converted bedroom uh the weller that we made into a studio uh but it can be a little cramped and then I just thought for a change of pace I'm doing a Badger Connect podcast later today with uh the Hall of Famer Paul Brown. You're kidding me yeah so he's coming over later today we'll record that and and that'll play at badgerconnect.com on Thursday right and I wanted a different setup I didn't you know it can be a little snug in there and it just seems odd. So this is a better in that way uh so I just wanted to change it up um Dave so thanks for caring enough to ask and uh and oh yeah he's here to help on the audio deal um I do think that there are conversations uh about Sal and his offense yeah um I do we've seen him so you know that he can be a much better version of who he is and dude nobody's gonna try harder he is an effort guy yeah not just during the games but during the day he's I promise you I'll have to ask Vinny about this on Thursday but I promise you he's taking extra in the in the tunnel in the cage uh up behind the Brewers Clubhouse and on the field and he's probably the first guy there. Yeah um I love who he is but you have to produce yeah and defensively he does he he's a great outfielder he's a gold glover offensively that dude needs to be better the bottom third of this lineup when Rengifo and Hamilton and Freelick are in there yeah it's just not good enough that's the bottom third and that was before when you didn't have Churio and Bond back I mean there's it's amazing how good how much productivity they've had you know I said this yesterday they have the third highest run differential in the National League yeah they're plus 44 run differential by the way first place in the division is the Cubs yeah they're plus 43 yeah and they have a four and a half game lead over right now the last place Brewers the second place St.
SPEAKER_05Louis Cardinals yeah after the win last night they're second place 21 and 14 their run differential is plus one in the well the Reds were minus two and the Reds are minus the Reds are minus 23 they're minus 23 and they're five games over 500 three games on so two things one that that tends that tends to matter over time right that the cream will rise the second thing is schedule to date particularly only 20% into the season matters as well and then the I'd say one more thing our run differential is awfully strong because of three blowouts right like the 131 132 it all counts to your point earlier in this conversation but back to the the bottom third of our lineup last year again anecdotal I'm a super fan I get to just say shit without necessarily having the facts in front of me that's and be emotional and all that fun stuff. The bottom third correct me for like so many times they saved our asses.
SPEAKER_04Like we talked about that yeah Hamilton's been uh very good i i ran the other numbers i i said i would share with you uh renhivo's been terrible uh as well so you know and and mike sends in renifo's signing was bullshit uh three and a half million dollars mediocre defense million and a half buyout next season incentives hundred thousand dollar every at bat over three hundred uh so on and so forth he has been yeah he was not good last year by the way but they thought it was injury related yeah uh but he has also not been good such a monster too that guy is so it's just like get the bat on the damn ball not not good enough so far all right let me uh transition there by the way the Brewers in game two tonight in St. Louis will go Brandon Sproat against Palante Andre Pallante and then Miz and Matthew Liberatory uh in the series finale in St. Louis uh you can still win the series that's all we need to do they they just left so many guys on base last night they they certainly had opportunities just one extra hit St. Louis got that extra hit the bases loaded double double um that's a key moment in the game Brewers didn't get one of those they had plenty of opportunities. All right let me uh transition Tyrod Taylor QB2 matters and the Green Bay Packers I had Pete Doherty on the show yesterday but it was before the Tyrod Taylor news came out of course that came out uh I used to do the show noon to three and we I always called it the breaking news show because that's when news would break well okay we do the podcast 10 to 11 uh guess what happened about uh noon or so tie rod taylor uh 36 years old 37 when the season starts yeah okay uh seven teams in the national football league in uh last year six games played he was 80 for 134 60 completion 779 yards five touchdowns five picks 72.9 rating on a terrible Jets team with no offensive coaching and limited weapons yeah um I don't I don't mind it it's it's it's fine I would prefer I would prefer this to a sixth round draft choice being your backup quarterback yeah because Tyrod Taylor is not gonna be awed by the moment all of a sudden Jordan Love doesn't get up on on a hit and they walk him slowly slowly to the sideline in the second quarter yeah and you can tell he's not coming back today I'd rather have Tyrod Taylor than that sixth round draft choice in his rookie season where it's um learning in the fire. Yeah uh so I like the signing he's not listen this is uh look listen my favorite yeah um when Malik Willis was brought in there was nobody was going oh yeah dude the opposite so and in fact when I was talking to Pete yesterday he said that in part what Matt LaFleur because I asked him if he thinks Matt LaFleur is a good coach and he said in part look what Matt LaFleur did with Malik Willis.
SPEAKER_05I loved that take so Matt LaFleur is good with quarterbacks yeah some people don't buy that but he is and uh and I I don't mind I like the signing I don't hate the signing yeah it's not uh hey wow like I didn't leave with it today but it's important uh so next time you have Pete on because I loved the my fellow super fans and I would always talk about the game that Matt called with Malik at the helm versus the game he called with Jordan and how much more creative he looked now you there you you know this Pete can talk well Malik's got a different skill set and the downside to Malik getting hurt on a a called run or an a read option is lower than the downside of losing your franchise for like there's all kinds of reasons but at the end of the fucking day all that matters is winning games by any means necessary. And I loved how creative Matt was it was like he picked up a video game console when Malik would go in the game and again so and I'll get back to Tyrod here really quick. So I do agree I use that to as an example because Matt knows how to coach a quarterback I don't care what people want to talk about his time management people want to talk about he's not tough enough he let the rookies last week fuck around I get all that but the man unequivocally there's just no denying his ability to quarterback whisper and coach guys up. So uh he will I'm excited I'm more excited than you with the signing for one the reason you said I know if Tyrod comes in we're in good hands and guess what Tyrod's gonna see the playing field he's gonna see the field this year and it's a it's an upgrade from Desmond Ritter. It's a massive upgrade the second reason I'm really excited is Jordan to date has not he had clearly had Aaron you know for tutelage that team not just Jordan hasn't had an old guy in the locker room and I really I do think and there's a quote that got played on the ride over on some other jackass news news talk radio wow but it was awesome look it up after the show Aaron's comments about Tyrod and the relationship they develop and how much they leaned into each other and Aaron's like he owes me nothing and when he came to me and said hey I'm seeing this this and this yeah he he said I listened and this is Aaron Rodgers who doesn't listen to anybody. So I think the upside to having a serviceable backup is what I just laid out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah I I think it's I think it's good and I do think that if you had to go to Tyrod Taylor for weeks like you did like you have a couple of times now with Jordan Love uh you would feel okay yeah and maybe better than okay and certainly better than than you felt with Desmond Ritter and listen see you're making me catch myself when you went to Malik Willis the first time none of us were thinking all right let's go Malik come on now and then he showed you because he used his he uses his legs yeah in a way that I wish Jordan Love would use a little bit more of that skill set he's got a little bit of it and he doesn't have Malik Willis skill set on that. Yeah but I wish he would use it a little bit more Aaron used it more than Jordan Love does and I don't know that Aaron was physically more gifted with his legs a little bit early in his career than where Jordan Love is I would like to see Jordan Love use his legs more. Yeah uh but Malik Willis plays or get first downs both okay because you can extend plays Aaron didn't look to run. Correct when the pocket broke Aaron looked to maneuver within and stretch and then he had great field vision yeah and he would find the guy and I say had because he doesn't have he has the field vision now but he cannot maneuver around and outside of the pocket which was always my fear for him as he got older would he be the same quarterback that he was when he won three straight MVPs because then he's using his legs.
SPEAKER_01The point of it is with Jordan I would love to see him move to extend and then if he if it's not there on the extent go go run and pick up the first down and I think it's the one of the missing elements of his game yeah that's not quite good enough and I think it's the next step for him will he take it though I don't know because there's been I don't know we've had there's five six seven eight yards of daylight in front of him yeah and maybe it's not third and six which get the first down move the sticks maybe it's second and 11 and you're like get us to third and short I mean right and I I don't know if he would admit this and I think I I will say this to be fair to Jordan he look at Jay look how many quarterbacks have lost their careers sure yeah because they weren't scared to get in front of that line of scrimmage and we as fans we do not know how how fast a 438 a 444 linebacker closes we don't you don't know I don't know you don't know and that guy's he knows and that guy's 260 260 but he's still got to take those yards and just get down yeah I I I agree that but it is a problem okay so I want to play and I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do this uh even though I haven't practiced it before so I'm gonna do this I want to play audio I'm gonna transition out of uh the conversation of Packers quarterback and I want to play this audio from the field of 68 which they have to change their name now because it's the field of 76 I paid close attention to that EC Sean Miller Texas Coach I think that we compete at a very high level uh you know we're we uh University of Texas is investing in our basketball program to allow us to compete for the top prize and you know I think we're in a company of about seven or eight you know where you know guys are are really along the same lines as us but I don't know Jeff I I would educated guests uh sometimes you don't have all the information how many um of 20 I would say 20 to 25 so the question was how many college basketball teams are going to be paying above 20 million dollars for their roster next year Sean Miller knows now he says educated guess yeah educated guess 20 to 25 okay I don't know this has always been my argument so I I'm not gonna pound the table because when you do the mic's um I'm gonna pound the bar uh smart so as I pound the bar all I want is to know yeah all I want is the information I just want the transparency of college athletics to know why does it matter because it fucking matters yeah because if it didn't matter then they would all pay the same amount then it doesn't matter if there's a cap like in the NFL it doesn't fucking matter because everybody's playing on the same field.
SPEAKER_04Yep they're all paying the same yeah in baseball it matters and we know there is no cap. There might not be baseball next year because there's no cap. Yep but we know that there's a tremendous gap between what the Mets are doing and losing with and what other teams are doing with and winning with or the Dodgers doing with and maybe on the horizon a third straight World Series championship we know it. In college basketball do we hold coaches to the same standard at school A that's paying eight million dollars to their players or school B that's paying $22 million? Do we hold Mark Pope to the same standard that you hold Greg guard? I mean people say I don't take that Kentucky job because you're under so much pressure. My point is when you when you play against somebody that they have paid their roster three times what you paid and then you lose I get there are layers to the concept that says how do you view it? Yeah and that's one of the layers not the only layer it's an important it's not the only one but it's one of the layers that matters and if Sean Miller is saying 20 to 25 programs are paying 20 million plus yeah next year it it's a big deal and treadmill I would add in one other note to that you know Duke just offered the next canipple yeah right they did Duke Duke doesn't get talked about as being the biggest Duke's the biggest fucking spender in college hoop BYU's right there too. Yeah but Duke you don't hear it all the time but Duke outspends all of them I don't know that it's what I believe.
SPEAKER_05Yeah yeah yeah I yeah to your point around if if you give a coach six seven eight premier players they should be held to a different standard it did just at the end of the day talent does matter yeah the only challenge with having that much talent is if there are multiple if there are different types of personalities you got to fill jacks in it right you got to find a way to get them to come together but if they're a bunch of 18 19 20 year old kids I'll take that on and if you've got an average roster then you look to coaches like Greg Gard and I love our guys but if you look at the spend it's below average in the Big 10 maybe it's average on a national level maybe it's not but he gets more out of less I'd like to know what it is this year. I'd like to know what they all know what's amazing is what has driven apart from TV contracts with or they're hand in hand what dynamic has driven sports to these massive TV contract contracts well I'll give you a hint we have a beautiful sponsor partner sponsor yeah so if you are and I played for about 25 years table games sports bet um loved it when I did it don't miss it but it's awesome and I have so I have a strong appreciation and understanding of it. I know what it means to get your ass kicked. If you are a if you're a so you're talking about these guys on the left sports book and casino damn right beautiful sports book so you want I mean information edge is all you have in in gambling and there's two things that happen in college sports that drive me nuts. I I know one's to protect the privacy I can't stand the lack of transparency around injuries. I think our program is one of the most opaque programs on earth when it comes like one's a guy coming back Jesus yeah they're not gonna tell you the second thing is what you brought up the the salary and that matters because if you know what a team's spending you're you know and I know the handicappers probably pot the people set in lines know but it's just incredible that it remains opaque still and and I think Wisconsin's had a uh I think Greg Gard has done and his staff has done a tremendous job in the portal again this year.
SPEAKER_04And I think that They'll be very good. Yet there's there are players to be had that we can't talk to. It's there there are players in not just the portal John Blackwell. Yeah. But also in the five-star recruiting front that's a gated community. Yeah. So the five stars go to only gated community schools. Yeah. And we don't know what that means, but it is the Dukes, the Kentuckies, the BYUs, USC to a certain extent. Um Gonzaga for several years. Sure.
SPEAKER_05Look who they pulled.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, Michigan. Michigan now again. Yeah. You you can you can label the schools. It's not hard to do that live in the gated community of when a five-star high school recruit is making that decision, that everybody else is off the board. Yeah. Everybody else is off, and I don't blame the kid. That's like that's not a kid thing. Yeah. I mean, if if you're if you're this five-star recruit from the middle of Oklahoma, you can go wherever you want to go. And where you want to go is gonna be Duke. Yep. Maybe Kentucky, Kansas, BYU. And and I say BYU, despite that they haven't been in a Final Four since right. What Danny Age was playing. Did Ainge they go to a Final Four with Ainge? I don't know that. Kind of hope so. I mean, but BYU spends a ton of money. But Duke spends the money. North Carolina used to spend the money, maybe not to the same extent anymore. They're getting if you still get those guys, but Blue Bloods, five stars, go pick, they pick from their schools. Yeah. I I continue to love what Greg does, but he's got to win now, and you got to find a way to win in the tournament. Yep. Hate that, but it's true. Izzo is I love listening to Izzo quotes. When Izzo gets on a little rampage, I'd scroll every now and then, and in my scroll, like my algorithm says, you know, Izzo's gonna show up in my algorithm because he's the one, one of those guys I watch through and through. Um, he gets it because players want to be coached hard. Yeah, but before they want to be coached hard, they want to be paid. And they go to schools that have a budget that allows them to be paid. And Michigan State's not one of them. I mean, there aren't a whole lot of five stars that are out of high school that are one and done going to Michigan State. Yeah. He he does it a different way. He gets it a different way.
SPEAKER_05They do. They do, they both end up with talent, but not the talent that you're but yet. I mean, but Kentucky has struggled having success as of late. North Carolina, you mentioned, has struggled. Villanova, which was just a power, and when you look at there was just a sort of a list, as people like to put out lists of the top 2025 programs since in the 2000s. Wisconsin's high on that list, by the way, and rightfully so.
SPEAKER_04Rightfully so, despite what's probably highest on the list without tournament success. With and they in the in 2000, they got three final fours, right? But e even if you go from 15 on, yeah, after Bo leaves, they they're still highly successful, but without the tournament success. 100%. And then and there's a lot of people that that's the only thing that matters.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and yeah, we I think we beat this up a little bit. Yeah. I I'm at the end of the season, you want your team to be in the mix. Yeah. And being in the mix looks like two things some nice wins, a higher winner percentage than not, and the most important aspect, postseason play. And when we look at Milwaukee with the Bucs once upon a time, the Brewers the last decade, the Badger football and basketball teams really dating back to the early 90s, and in what green, you know, what Green Bay is done. So I just you sound not you. You sound like a spoiled fucking brat when you bitch and moan that about not you, fan, me being one of them. And and I love the high expectations for our programs. Yeah. And I do believe you can tell people how to fan. You don't, because you're a professional and I'm an amateur. But just like the R-E-L-A-X needs to come into play from time to time. And because here's what it looks like, and we're living with it. And I believe Fickle's gonna turn it around. But you bitch, you bitch, you bitch, because we're not gonna we're not getting into the college football playoff. Yeah, we make a run, we choose the right guy at the time. Anyone that denies that doesn't know a thing about sports. And now we're three very, very, very tough losing seasons into the tenure. So be careful what you wish for.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah. And I I opened yesterday's show in part by by putting it on because I was away. Well, it was Friday's show I opened because I was away, but then I I watched stuff. Not I mean, I'll watch your stuff, but you you didn't violate these rules. But there are certain other radio hosts. Yeah. This is the this is the bottom. This is the bottom for Wisconsin football. They have never been really because they didn't have a player drafted. We didn't know that they were already at a bottom, that they were, you know, the four and eight off of five and seven. That's the bottom. Don't have this fake outrage because they didn't have a player drafted. Oh, they've reached the listen, that was not a surprise. No. Mason Riger was the only guy on that team that, and he probably should have been drafted. Yeah. There's an injury question mark on him. Um, I think if he's healthy, he'll have a good NFL career. Yep. As others from Wisconsin football last year might, but they weren't drafted. The point of it is that that was an issue based on the leader of the program, and I'm talking about Chris McIntosh, because they did not devote resources to the program. That does not absolve Luke Fickel. He made a mistake with Phil Longo, his offensive coordinator. Yeah, he made a couple of mistakes, maybe not in personnel, but in the way they rotated through offensive line coaches. Yep, absolutely. And how they didn't recruit the state. Next year, it's all in-state recruits. Unbelievable. And but that also comes from money. Yeah. So it just when you're when you're gonna dole out blame, be careful where you dole it. It belongs in certain places. Luke Fickel owns some of it, and he's not gonna walk away from that. You know, in a frank conversation, he'll tell you that it's on his desk. He's not gonna point at somebody else. He'll he'll take the arrows. On the outside, looking in, he bel he deserves some arrows, but more arrows were deserved at the athletic director's position. And that's the only way I can be fair about it. And for those who want to criticize me, oh, you're an insider because you wear the badger logo and you won't be critical of them. I'm being critical of them. But I want to be critical in the proper direction. Yeah. I want to be critical when it comes to finances and player procurement. That is not a coach issue. That is an administrative issue. You have to find ways to pay to be competitive. And for a while, I mean, you want you want to talk about great acknowledgement. Greg Guard deserves a ton of acknowledgement because they haven't had the resources. And when they didn't have the resources, guess who went out and got them? Greg Guard, Joe Krabenhoff, and staff. They went out and got the resources that weren't being allocated to them. Yeah. That deserves accolades. Absolutely. Because otherwise, Greg's gone. Yeah. I mean, if Greg doesn't have the wherewithal to go out and get the dollars when they weren't being allocated to them, they don't get John Tanjay. They don't get AJ Store the year before. They're not competitive. He had to go do it. Yeah. On his side. And then we want to we want to bitch that he doesn't win in the tournament. We want to be critical that they haven't had postseason success. I have strong words for that. Yeah. That even on a podcast, I won't use. I'll drink to that. Give him credit. Yeah. Rather than taking your shots at him. And rather than taking all the shots at Luke Fickle, take some of the shots at him, but also take the shots at the guy that just left to go to the Big Ten. And I like Chris McIntosh. I mean, if he were if he walked in the room right now, maybe I'd couch my words a little bit. But if he were in the room, I wouldn't like this gets out. Yeah. I'm not afraid. He missed. Not on purpose, but he missed. Great hire. Yeah. But then whether he couldn't find the resources to actually put him in the right place for football to win, but that there's some of this that belongs on him. And some certainly belongs on Luke. Yep. Not going to hide from any of that. Wisconsin needs this is from uh JME. What does he say? Uh he or she says Wisconsin needs to hire an AD who is willing to commit more money to support guard and the men's basketball team that's holding the back.
SPEAKER_05So I'll let Mike speak to this. And I so I agree with that because I I love the Badger basketball team as much as I love the Badger football team. The challenge is what what what drives AD, give or take 80% of AD revenue, which sport? Across, you know, across every universe.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's all it's all about football. It's all football. Football's the engine.
SPEAKER_05I mean, it's incredible. I uh I got a stat the the year the so UW women's volleyball, which just raised prices on tickets and as they should. That is a dynasty and has been for some time. The first national championship, the most recent, that was at that was a minus three million dollar year for that volleyball team. That's what it costs the the department. Yeah, no fault of anybody, no fault of the fans who show up, no fault of Kelly who wins, no fault of any player. But it so that sports never gonna make money, which just is batshit crazy to me. That I mean because we're there.
SPEAKER_04Well, because there are no TV revenues.
SPEAKER_05But I mean, there yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_04And that's what's killing me. It's just a gate, and the gate is a lower gate, ticket costs are affordable.
SPEAKER_05So foot, so football football's the engine. Football's the engine, and football's what's gonna get the lion's share of the NIL money.
SPEAKER_04Um, as we uh drink bourbon and get ready to wrap up. Uh so I just wanted to share. Uh, you know, I played that Sean Miller sound and I texted uh Coach Guard about it. And he said there's not pure transparency, but that number fits what we've seen. Jesus.
SPEAKER_05Awesome check, by the way.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05If I would have texted Coach Guard, he would have said, go back to your bourbon loser, but you get a reply immediately. Uh yeah, I so that's not that's not a small amount. 20 to 25 is not a small amount. If you just look at power four, which obviously conference teams outside of that, you're talking about you know, five to six programs per power four spending that. But let's just let's just say it's three to four because you're gonna have some of the small. That is that that's the Brewers Dodgers situation.
SPEAKER_04No, no, kidding. And by the way, uh, so as Mike sends him, Wisconsin needs to hire a chancellor that will work cohesively with the AD, like Alvarez and Shalala and a president that has vision past 10 years, not 10 months. Yeah. That's true. So, what Wisconsin needs to do on the AD side is they need to hire Bob Harlan. That's the type of person they need to hire a Donna Shalala. That I've said this many times, and I'll say this and then we'll wrap, is that you have to do the model that the Badgers did 36 years ago. Donna Shalala to Pat Richter to Barry Alvarez. Green Bay did it with the Packers from Bob Harlan to Ron Wolf to Mike Holmgren. That needs to be replicated. Easier to say, but it's good to point out, easier to say than it is to do. But that's the Chancellor needs to be athletic-minded, not first and foremost in their world, because you have to live in academia in order to survive at a school like Wisconsin or any of the Big Ten academic universities. But part of the money that comes and the best advertisement for a university is athletics. It is like it or like it or not. Why do you think Duke's doing what Duke has done?
SPEAKER_05They didn't care forever about athletics. Alabama, Florida, Georgia were three of the easiest schools to get into in the world when I graduated in 1990. You don't, most kids up here won't even bother applying to Georgia or Florida because there's a couple hope scholarship things. But sports have put them on in with strong sports advertising that the academia will follow. It's worked out that way.
SPEAKER_04Let me uh thank our sponsors as we always do. Uh uh begin with M3. M3INS.com is where you go, helping business and individuals manage risk, purchase insurance, and provide the right benefits to their employees. M3INS.com. Presented by one community bank. Go to onecommunity.bank and stop by any one of their locations to upgrade to feel good banking. One community bank proud to serve clients, support colleagues, and invest in their communities. Also presented by Neuroscience Group in sports. You trust the right team for your health. It's no different. Neuroscience group brings together specialists in neurology, spine, and pain management working to get you back at full strength. And also brought to you by Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino Bet Above the Rest and our friends at Habish Enroads here, 13 locations, ensuring you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury. Personally committed to your recovery. We appreciate you being here today. I love Super Fan Tuesdays. The hour goes by quick. Bourbon doesn't hurt. We'll do it again tomorrow. It's a uh it's an OG Wednesday. Can't tell you exactly who's in tomorrow, but it will be somebody who's older. Maybe not older than me, but somebody who's been around for a while. We'll do that tomorrow. Thanks for being here today. And we push the right buttons to get us out. And we appreciate you being here. We'll talk to you again tomorrow on I Love Mondays with Mike Heller.
SPEAKER_00I love Mondays with Mike Heller.