I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
Mike Heller is back talking all things sports and all things Packers, Brewers, Bucks, Badgers and beyond.
I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
I Love Mondays-Ep 52, May 12, 2026
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SuperFan Tuesday agrees that trading Giannis is the best path for the Bucks to win again? Which Pro-sports franchise in Wisconsin has had the best run in the 2000's or in the last decade? It's a great discussion.
I love Mondays with my help.
SPEAKER_01Podcasting line from an undisclosed bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.
SPEAKER_02Turn a mic on. We get started. Welcome in. It's the Super Fan Tuesday edition of the Mike Heller show. There's a little bit of ground to cover today, so I want to make sure we get to it. But I also, you know, we begin our shows with a good morning. So this comes from James. He beat Mike to the punch. Good morning on a dreary Tuesday. Is it dreary? I mean, I mean, I get the weather. Listen, we need a little May rain. We need a little bit of this. The grass is really green. It's it's living off of this. I think the farmers could use a little bit of the rain. Yeah, it's a little dreary, but it's warm, warmer, getting warmer as we go. I don't think it's dreary. I get to spend the night tonight at American Family Field for Brewer's Padres. I get to do this uh with it with a bud, Super Fan Tuesday. Vilker is in the house. We'll get to him in a minute. Uh I got a little Badger Connect deal going on midday today. I mean, I I think it's a good day. I I want to begin um, and we'll talk about this when I bring Jeff into the into the fray here in a minute. I want to talk about a couple of things. One, you know, Sham Sharania at ESPN, their NBA uh guru, everything everything's scripted at the mothership. So even though the Bucs had their introductory press conference last week to introduce the new head coach, and it was the conversation about Giannis that was going to steal the day, that was last week. But they hold and run the story yesterday because that's when the story nothing new happened. Nothing new was there. Uh, and but I understand how the workings of big sports media, so that's in play, and I certainly understand and get it. I think that now is the time for the Bucks to move Giannis. I know that some people aren't gonna like that. I worked with one. Uh, by the way, James is uh defending his point. Uh, 46 and raining fairly hard in Oskosh equals dreary. No doubt. I went to school at Oshkosh. Many times I thought it was dreary when it was sunny in 70. So I mean, I I enjoyed my time there. Would I go back? Yeah, maybe, probably, possibly. But uh it's kind of it can be. I'm gonna offend some Oskosh people. I'm sorry, I went to school there. I grew up in Appleton. I I get it, but Oskosh is a little beat up and dirty and old. He was kind of dreary and dirty and old when I was there in the 1980s. Anyways, I'm uh that's Oskosh didn't deserve a stray from me this morning, but they they got one anyway. James brought it on. Um I think that the Bucks moving off of Giannis now is the time. And and I was bringing up a guy, Armin Sarjan, who I worked with. Armin is emotionally attached, like super emotionally attached. He his his feels get in the way of doing the right thing. I hated when the Brewers had to move off of either Prince or Brawny. And it would have been one of those times where I would have probably sided on the fan side that says, uh, why can't the owner just find a way to pay them both? Because I think he they probably could have. It wouldn't have been great for the bottom line and cash flow in the then moment. But the Brewers were well attended. It was a team that was playing at a very high level, and they made a decision based on two big contracts that you don't have to make that decision in New York or Boston or the north side of Chicago, or I mean, pick your medium to large size market. The Brewers, I would say, quote unquote, had to make that move, but ultimately I don't think they had to. That's where an owner with deeper pockets can say, this isn't good on our year-to-year PL. Like we'll probably lose operating cash in signing prints to a deal and keeping brawn and paying them both. You would have probably lost money year on year, but the franchise makes money in its value. Now this is me talking financial stuff that I have no business talking. But when you have a home that goes up in value, the only value that is to you is if you sell it. So when Mark Atanasio has greater value in his franchise year over year, that value does not buy you groceries. The only time you get that value is if you sell it. So when people say, Well, yeah, but the value keeps going up, he's making millions. You don't make money on value going up unless you sell it. I like Mark Attanasio as an owner. My point is this on the Bucks, we operate under a different structure in the NBA. The way it stacks up, I don't know that the Bucs can win with Giannis. I think they've tried and I'm gonna hold them harmless on their efforts. I don't think they screwed it up. It ended up getting screwed up, but I don't think it screwed up because of the moves that they made. Uh nobody bitched about the acquisition of Dame Lillard. Nobody. That was your shot to get right back into an Eastern Conference Finals or an NBA title. It didn't work. Dame wasn't ready or healthy the first year. Giannis was also a little bit dinged up from time to time. And then in the second year, it just didn't come together. And Giannis was hurt. This last year, Giannis played what is it? I was just look looking this up before the show. He's 32, he'll be 33 in December of this year. And last year he played in 36 games. 36 games. So he's 32 years old. It's my belief that now is the time to move. And if you're gonna move, do it for a as much draft capital and young ascending players as you can. I don't want him to trade for a Jason Tatum type player who's also 31, 32 years old. I don't know how old Tatum is. You get my point. I don't want a high-level 31-year-old. I I want the bucks to be on the build. And so we're we're gonna get into that level of conversation. Let me thank our sponsors, one community bank. Uh so happy to work with them. 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We don't have any full-time employees. But if you do, they are a great company. They will work on your behalf to try and set you up. So I would encourage you to go to m3ins.com. Neuroscience Group. Now, neuroscience group, whether maybe you have uh a neuro issue, maybe you have spine or pain care issues. They're the people to see. So in sports, you trust the right team for that. Trust neuroscience group, bringing together specialists, neurology, spine, and pain management working together to get you back at full strength. And also presented by Pottawatomies Sportsbook and Casino, that above the rest. And they're they're your place to go right now. Like Ms. goes tomorrow night. What would be your over-under on Ms. and strikeouts tomorrow night? Brewers are on an offensive roll. Padre's gonna go with an opener tonight. What might you do there? Also presented by Habish Habish and Rotier. 13 locations to ensure you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury and tries to get you the proper settlement. All right, so here we go. That guy, listen, I first thing I said when uh when Treadmill walked in the door, I said, I like that whisco, that hoodie. Yeah. He said, Yeah, I got him for um, you know, I think I thought what I heard is that you got him for friends and family. Uh and I said, Okay, well, I'm gonna see where I rate. But well, I don't think you said friends. That's what I heard.
SPEAKER_03That's what you heard. You heard what you wanted to hear. Possibly. Yeah. Then I told him just because he looks like my dad doesn't mean he gets something for Batman's sake.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's what a compliment to me to look like your dad. It'd be very nice of you. I don't know why your dad caught a stray.
SPEAKER_03Seriously. And Oshkosh. Two people. By the way, Oshkosh earned that stray. I grew up in Appleton too. They they earned it. My goodness.
SPEAKER_02We were sitting around the the patio at uh at Red and White on Saturday after we did that event with um with our uh our friends at Mad Dog and Merrill and Midwest Grillin. By the way, Mike, late. Uh you had an alarm clock on there. It listen, if you got to set the clock for a 10 o'clock hit, we need to talk. Unless you're working the overnight shift. Uh good morning, all Mike says. He's a little bit late than Merrill. Um, so we were sitting around the patio at Red and White after that Midwest Grillin um experience, Wanna Key Festival going on Saturday, uh with your whole family. And we were sharing stories about uh where we went in Appleton. We were talking about Adler Brow, a beer that was brewed out of Appleton, no longer made. Chief Oshkosh out of Oshkosh. That's awesome. Um and then Sunday I went up to celebrate my dad's 90th birthday in Appleton. And my brother-in-law, Paul, uh, he said, you know, help yourself to beer in the in the refrigerator. So I go down to the uh old-fashioned basement where the refrigerator is, and uh I grabbed uh an old style, and I haven't had an old style in quite a long time, you know, old world croisening, G. Heilman Brewing Company, La Crosse, Wisconsin, which is now Milwaukee. Uh, and then my second beer of the day was a Stroze.
SPEAKER_03How about that? Wait a minute, they don't make Stroze anymore. Yeah, they do in Lacrosse. That's I mean, old style schlitz. Yeah. Falstaff, remember Falstaff? Blats. I I did not know Strode.
SPEAKER_02In fact, in fact, uh, Tread, he he brought up the Stroz as my second beer because he said, What do you want? And I said, Well, you know, get that that strodes that was in the back of the fridge. He not only brought that up, he poured it into a you know, a little eight-ounce the old beer mugs that you into an eight-ounce Blatz labeled glass. That's amazing. So I had I didn't have a Blatz, but I had old style and Stroze, and the Stroz I had in a Blatz glass. How about that? That's fantastic. That's throwing it back. Yeah. Um Monday. Yeah, Mike's talking, he he gets it now. He knows we're talking about throwback beers. Um, he's wondering about Eric Lauer uh to the Brewers on a uh minor league contract. Uh I don't know. Uh no, we we didn't go to Cleo's. We actually made a joke about going to Cleo's after the rest of the family left.
SPEAKER_03Tallest, deepest, cheapest highballs in the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we did not. Uh and Mike's on a roll. Had a salesman here. Okay. All right. You're sampling Mr. Pickle's gin. Mike is on a roll. Okay. Now that we have a rule on the show. I've never enforced it before. Uh the the Clio's was from James. Yeah. Uh, but we can't do more than uh two texts in a row from the same sender. But James saved you, Mike, so we'll go to this one too. Throwback beers, yep. And then uh this from Chris Red, white, and blue is a staple of his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I thought he was giving a little shout out to uh red and white, the wine bar, but it was red, white, and blue. Yeah. So in college at UW Oshkosh, we would throw a once-a-month party off campus. We lived in the dorms the first two years because you had to. Shout out to the ninth floor at South Scott Hall, room 925, was and uh Marty Van Hooley was across and with Larry O'Brien down the hall, and Hopper was there. So much name dropping. Yeah. Um, but we would throw a once-a-month party when we moved off campus on Vine Street and lost. I think it was law. I probably have the second street wrong. Yeah. Once a month party, two dollar cups, uh, shop bar inside for two dollars. And the drinking age was not an issue, right? Because drinking age was 18 when we went, it was grandfathered in. So, you know, by the time we were juniors and seniors, if freshmen came, now that might be a problem. Yeah. But we never had a drinking age issue, but we did have noise issues, right? If the party got broken up, because if the cops came a second time and said, we told you to quiet it down and it's not, so you're done. That was actually to our benefit. Now, there are rumors that somebody in the house occasionally reported ourselves for the second call. That's not true. Come on, man. Can't believe that to be true. But the reason it was a benefit is that if your party got broken up at 11:30 and you had four half barrels and had only been into the second one, the two untapped halves, you bring them back. Yep. And you get your money back. And everybody had already paid the two dollars for the cup. No, very few are coming in after that. Yeah. And they weren't solo cups then. They were the you know, the yeah, the cheap kind of clear ones. So if they had all paid, we got that cash drawer working, and then we got to return two halves. I mean, we paid all of our utility bills off that. So we never paid for gas and electric or cable, I think. Both were covered on our once-a-month parties, yeah. But it was the reason I brought it up is that we got whatever the half barrel that was going to be the cheapest. Many times that was a red, white, and blue, or a stroze, or an old Milwaukee at the time. Yeah, or this is pre-Milwaukee's best.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that wasn't a big thing in Wisconsin. Yeah, Milwaukee's best was bigger outside of Wisconsin than I think it was because we drank old Milwaukee. That's what I mean. It was Hams a little bit in high school. Yeah. Keystone light came into play.
SPEAKER_02Because I'm a little couple of times where we had Blats as our uh keg, and that I mean it it earned its name.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it the day after the blats earned it's earned its name. It was real. That was a true thing. Now, I don't know the chemicals involved with why that happened, but yeah. All right. Uh let's let's uh jump back into the Giannis. Yeah, what do you sit on what the Bucks should do now and how much emotional investment is there for what Giannis has brought to Milwaukee? We would all love for the Bucks to still be competitive with him, yeah, and to have him play his entire career in Milwaukee. I'm more of uh Billy Schmid would hate this when I would use the term realist. I'm more of a realist. I don't think that the Bucs can win with Giannis in Milwaukee. I think that their best chance to win again two, three, and four years down the road is to make this trade. What do you say?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I agree completely. Uh I I don't say that without emotion. It has been amazing. You know, this this is once in a generation, yeah, in so many ways. Yeah. Not only because of the talent and the production that he that Giannis has put up since he got here, but for a player, again, in this day and age, to want to stay, yeah, and not amid a small market, stay with a small market team for this long.
SPEAKER_02And I think he wants to. He's wanted to, and I think he still wants to, but he also wants to win. No. And I don't believe that they believe that they can find the path for them to win and keep Giannis at the same time. And I agree with that.
SPEAKER_03I I they tried. I we get so I'll compare this to the situation in Green Bay since 2010-11, the last Super Bowl championship. When again, you've had these generational first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks back to back, probably not back to back to back, but another good one up in Green Bay in love. What was the frustration, Mike, that the fans showed coming out of actually the 11-12 season was a great season as well, just couldn't get it done. But right, what did we always say the Green Bay front office wasn't doing for Aaron Rodgers?
SPEAKER_02Getting him the weapons that they needed to, you know, on the outside. They said the same thing with Favre late, even when they drafted Rodgers. I said that live on the on doing a talk show on the radio. I did not like the draft pick of Aaron Rodgers. No, now I ended up being proven wrong, and I own that and wear it, I admit. But in those moments, I think you got to go get some guys um to allow you to do what you want to do. That's why Aaron's bitching about maybe you know, he's gonna play in Pittsburgh this year, but could you understand why he'd be a little not thrilled in their draft choice or even in LA with the Rams, their draft choice? Yep.
SPEAKER_03And I didn't I don't think Milwaukee, you can level the same criticism on the Bucks that we did on Green Bay. And in hindsight, we probably shouldn't be leveling it uh criticizing anybody because the sus the sustainability of winning in each of those programs is really what we should lean into and and vote for and root for. Yeah. So I think it's right. I don't think they can win with them. I think they tried. I love that they tried. I don't want, to your point, I don't want a Jalen Brown or a Tatum if it's the Boston route. I don't want the entire lineup for the the the Lakers. I it's not a Steph Curry move. It's not like I don't want any of those guys that look like they're the they're not the same player, but they're the they produce the same or they're the same superstar. I don't want that. It's time to largely tear it down. And again, I don't say that lightly either. I'm gonna miss them. I'm amazed that we had them this long. I'm gonna always cherish the time we had with them. I'm gonna hate the years that it takes to rebuild. Yeah, so all of those things are waiting on him. I'm gonna I mean, I'll root, I'll root for, I think he's an amazing human being. I'll root for him. Obviously, if we're playing whatever team he lands on, hell no. But I wish him the absolute best.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, there are two things that this is how I would love for this to play out. There is no crystal ball, there is no automatic, there is no guarantee. I think the Bucs are in a better position if they deal him. They have the 10th overall selection now. Uh I would like for the deal to happen before the draft, not guaranteed that it will. Yeah, he's got an expiring Supermax contract after next year. So the acquiring team has to be confident that they can make the deal and keep him, not as a rental, but he's gonna then play the next four years of his career, five years of his career, wherever this is. So no guarantee that it happens or that what comes back, let's say you get three first-round draft choices and two end up being in the lottery over the next year or two. No guarantee that those end up being home run hits. Yep. However, I think the avenue to winning is best served going that direction. And I will root for Giannis because I don't think the Bucs will be competitive short term, and Giannis has a window. And I would love for him to win again. I wish it was in Milwaukee, but I thought they did the right things and it didn't work.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I think if you go ahead and make that deal, two things can happen. Giannis can win, which would bring uh I would have some joy for if that happened for him. Unless it happened like in Boston. Right. You know, I think literally. I don't know why I said that quietly. Oh fuck Boston. Yeah, that felt better. Um so depending on where, but yeah, I would want Giannis to have that success. And then I would love for the Bucs, and and we have short-term memory. We're a recency bias. But I would love for the Bucks to re-enter that growth, that growth period of time. You know, like the Detroit Pistons have been in for the last three years. They were terrible three years ago, four seasons ago, whatever that season is. And then it got better. And the fan base is like, hey, wait, there might be something here. And then the year after that, they got better again. And now they're on the edge. The Bucks did the same thing with the growth of Giannis. And I would love for that to happen again. There's a thrill and an excitement to that, right? We get a little complacent, Green Bay, a little complacent, some fans with the Brewers and say, I don't care. Just show me October. Yeah. There's a certain level of joy that happens when a team goes from 32 wins to 41 wins to 48 wins, and now you're a competitor for your conference championship or an NBA finals. And I hope that that's what happens. By the way, just as a little aside, Morgan, there is no effing way I'm putting that up there. And that I even give you a little shout out here, it's not a shout out. It's just that you're an asshole. So I if you thought that I would put that on the screen, here's your 15 seconds. You have been an asshole, you're still an asshole, you're being that with that message you send in, and that's it. And you'll gain no more ground here. I'm not going back to you. I'm not using your name again, but just know that I know that you're a class A jerk. Okay. All right. So um you so you would make this deal. Do you think they make the deal? Do you think this is a pre-draft move? I I do. I is there a chance they can get a second lottery pick? Yeah, when that now especially if it's yeah. What is the lottery is um defined as top 14? 14 is how I remember. So if you go they're 10 now, if you go up, it like if one of them came in as a six, like if you if you had six and ten this year, does it be really exciting, right?
SPEAKER_03I think you know, we took Thon Maker with the last year. Yeah, so I you can fail without you can fail, but I don't bring that up to to bring up Thon Maker. I bring that up because I let me try this on for size with you. It's a different time right now with the top 10, 15 picks in the NBA because of the amount of international players that are coming in that are proven. Right. And you don't go one and done. You don't you stay in college now. We've talked a lot about this because the NIL money is in many cases better than way better than rookie salary in the NBA, not like G Link NBA. Yeah, so point being the the guys that are in that top 10, 15 range, there's no guarantees, but I feel like it's much more of a guarantee today than it was five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, where you're, I mean, we just saw the two rookie of the year candidates. Uh I take you take it now, those are one, two guys, not six and ten guys. But I think I would be really excited to get two lottery picks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I I'm I'm really it'll be such an interesting time. And I know that the uh many people in the media and the fan base gets pissed off at at ESPN, and before it was, you know, now it's Shams, but it used to be Brian Winhorst that they would get pissed off about because they they keep bringing it up. Giannis is a story, and there there's so understand the reason they're bringing it up is not about Milwaukee. Yeah, it's about the rest of the NBA. Um, the media culture says, hey, what what's the biggest potential move? Well, for a lot of years it was LeBron. Yeah, now it's not LeBron. Might have played, I don't know, played last game last night.
SPEAKER_03I would I don't know how he he's amazing. And he's amazing, and he's not my guy. Like it's Jordan over LBJ all day long. I there's three or four players, there's ten players I like more than him, but there's not ten players that have been more durable, correct, more committed. I mean, he was talented from age 12 on. Yeah, just a little bit on like again, we're we're homers. Yeah, we're supposed to be homers. Yeah. And I think if we saw our front offices or we saw our athletic directors within Wisconsin sports fucking up repeatedly, yeah, you're gonna you're gonna hear that from both of us. Like the fact that it looks like we're kissing ass to these isn't because we're excusing them for their failures, right? It's because they're fucking winning way more than they're losing. Like, yeah, I will get after the people making decisions. I'll always caveat with, and you've heard me say this, they've forgotten more about their job than I'll learn in 10 lifetimes. But I'm a fan, don't tell me I'm a fan, I'll tell you. But it's I don't have fucking knee pads on. I'm we're winning a lot everywhere. Um, we we're frustrated because we're not getting at home in the postseason enough. But you can't win a world championship or a national championship if you're not in the postseason, but all we do is get in the postseason in this state.
SPEAKER_02So let me let me ask uh I brought this up to you off the air. So let's leave Wisconsin athletics out of it at the college game. Yeah. Um, in the last in this century, 2000, yep, last 26 years. Which of our three pro sports franchises have had the best run of success? The Packers now in that window, one Super Bowl. Yep, the Bucks in that window won NBA Championship, the Brewers in that window, two National League Championships series, no spot in the World Series. Of those three, which one, I'm gonna rephrase it, which one is the most impressive in the last 26 years?
SPEAKER_03It for me, it's Green Bay, not because of the 2011 Super Bowl win, but just the consistency and how hard it is really hard to do that. It's it's when you look at, and I know we can go down this rabbit hole or not, but if you go back even further, 1994 cherry picking clearly, when you look at franchises in all of pro sports, but even if we stick just to the NFL, that have had that many winning seasons, that many divisional championships, that many cracks at world championships, you know, it's it's us, it's the Steelers, 49ers. But the Niners had, I mean, the Niners have been an incredibly durable franchise, but they had a massive rebuild they had to live through. Yeah. So I am blown away, and it's largely because fans like me have been pissed off that they haven't had a win now philosophy. Yeah, they've had more of a win now than I think I know, but they've had a let's win into perpetuity philosophy, and they've executed on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, I I think that the Brewers deserve more than just their third best of those three. I think what they've done is, in a certain measure, more successful than what the Packers and Bucks have done because they're doing it with a completely unlevel playing field. Uh, the NBA has a level playing field. Now, you skirt around some of those issues with luxury tax dollars and and so on and so forth. In the NFL, it's very leveled. Yeah, there is no advantage to being in New York or LA as opposed to Green Bay. The only time that comes to an advantage is a lie that media will tell you, and that is, well, players would prefer to play in LA or New York. No, they wouldn't. They would prefer to play to for whoever pays them the most amount of money. For sure. That's that's a simple equation. Yes. In the NBA, because you everybody gets maxed out. Now you have a different conversation. Would a player prefer to play in Cleveland, Milwaukee, or Miami or LA? I get the Miami LA equation there. So I do think the Brewers deserve some credit. I would say that I would agree with the Packers since 2000. And you know, you can take it back to 94. I mean, their run of 32 years here has been really impressive with one. You cannot look over the idea that in that run with Favre and Rogers, that they only each won one Super Bowl. Yeah, that's a failure. However, their ability to compete at that level for that run of time is not unprecedented, but it's rare and it deserves to be given its proper credit. Yeah. So I agree. Now, let's say we just did the last 10-year window. Now, in that 10-year window, the Bucs have won a title and they've developed and had Giannis. The Packers have not won. They've been in the NFC Championship three times in the last 10 years and lost all three and uh in a little bit heartbreaking fashion. Yeah. Uh the Brewers have been in two National League Championship series. They didn't win either one, but they've been in two of them in the last 10 years and have been a constant playoff team. So if I lay out that criteria, which of those three has been most impressive in a 10-year window?
SPEAKER_03You just made my point around how lucky and spoiled we are. Yeah. That pick another, pick one other market where they're talking about maybe Philly, because the Philly, I mean, but the Sixers have been an abomination. So probably not Philly, probably Boston, because you got the fucking Pats, which aren't even in this city, but you got the Pats, you got the Celts. Like, how many cities can talk about three professional sports teams that have won that much collectively in the last 10 years? I I'm this is hard for me. I it's really hard. I if the Bucks had pulled off the day, you know, they tried. Had Dame worked and they got another world championship, more well maybe if they would have kept Drew Holiday, which was my wish.
SPEAKER_02The two issues on the front end before they won the title, uh, blowing the series against Toronto and Nick Nurse. Yeah, and then uh and then having things kind of implode on them in the bubble for COVID in Orlando when they were the NBA's best team, and then they had the uh the Floyd issue in Minneapolis, and the Bucs were the first team that boycotted a little bit, and then they never found their rhythm there. That was the Lakers, that was the Kobe, or not the Kobe, that was the LeBron championship, right? Uh those were bigger misses because the Bucks should have won multiples, but they should have won them before they won there. The one that they got. Toronto beat them that seriously. Toronto beat them. It was 2-0 and it didn't look competitive. And then that's what Toronto did on building the wall. Nick Nurse built the wall, and uh Boudenholzer and company and the Bucks never found the answer to it. But yeah, I I get it. If if the Dame thing would have hit and you add one more, the Bucks, because they're the only one in the 10-year window who has a title, yeah. The Bucks would win that question, I think. Yeah, I think the Brewers win that question. The last 10 years, most impressive of the three pro sports franchises here, I think is the Brewers.
SPEAKER_03Particularly when you factor in what you just talked about. When I whenever you and I talk about the Brewers or you and Vinny, or me and Vinny, yeah. Um you're it's that salary, that inequity is always it has to come up. It has to because, and here's why. Because the the coaches, not just Murph, but the coaches in the front office have one and a half arms tied behind their back. And if they are, and they have been able to consistently win without having the same tools available to them, that is excellence of the overall organization. Not just the players on the field. But you look at the pipeline, the scouting, the development work, the in-game skipping, coaching, managing, it's phenomenal what they're doing. I so want this team to win, not only because we fucking deserve it and they deserve it, and the city deserves it, the state deserves it, but I want validation for just how great that team is being, has been, and continues to be run.
SPEAKER_02Let me add to it, and I've said this uh in in the past, but let me add to it. They've done it with multiple managers. I mean, they did it with Craig, and when Craig leaves, I don't think Mark Otsanasio gets enough credit for this moment. When Craig leaves, and I don't think they knew, I think at some point they realized, okay, he's not coming back here right now. Yeah. But Mark Otsanasio set it up that Murph would stay and the coaching staff would stay. Which is hard. Not easy to do. No. Because, you know, my guess is that Chris Hook and Pat Murphy, you know, would have, without any hesitation, Jim Henderson, they would have just gone with Craig to Chicago. Do you think he tried? Do you think the front off they had to address it was, I think it was addressed as soon as Mark Atanasio and the power structure in Milwaukee recognized, hey, Craig's not doing this. I don't know where he's going, but let's do this. Let's lock up Pat. Yeah. Let's lock up Hook and Henderson. Let's lock up our guys. And I think they did. And I don't think they get enough, I don't think Atanasio gets enough credit for how the transition was owned and managed from the ownership group and from the front office. Pat Murphy has been a better manager than Craig was. Hard to say because I like Craig. Yeah. I don't like that he went to Chicago, but it's not my call. It's his and it's his life. Uh, so who am I to judge it? I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But that he goes and you're able to keep Murph and actually be better than you were before Craig left, yeah, is a testament to ownership. And ownership includes, even though he's not an owner, but the ownership moves include Matt Arnold. Matt Arnold followed David Stearns. Stearns was great. People were were pissed when Stearns was leaving. Look what he's not been able to do in New York. Why do you think that is? Because here I'm gonna go all you, because fucking ownership matters. And in New York, they have terrible fucking ownership. In Milwaukee, Mark Atanasio is good. Why is he good? I don't know all the intricacies. However, they have spent money on player development in the Dominican. Yeah, they have spent money on player development in their system, they have spent money at their spring training facility. They're not the only team with a pitching lab, but they've used it better than others have used it. They've spent money on keeping Chris Hook and Jim Henderson. Yeah, Matt Erickson has ascended the ranks and become an incredibly valuable tool to what they do. And he gave Pat Murphy the wherewithal to be Pat Murphy. Yeah. That doesn't work everywhere else. Some owners would go, hey, you've got to keep some of that. Let's let's do a little less of Pat. Yeah. I think he's given them free reign. I equate it to Joe Madden in Chicago. Yeah. Because that doesn't work everywhere. What Pat Murphy has done doesn't work everywhere, but it works here. So I'm a big fan of Mark Atanasio. Would I like for them to spend at third base before the trade deadline at the end of the, you know, later this summer? Yeah. Yeah. Would I like for them to have kept Freddie Peralta? Yes. Willie Adamas? No. Yeah. Have you noticed what Willie hasn't done since he left? I noticed last year. He hadn't done anything. No. He no. The the Brewers the Brewers have used that old philosophy. Uh, get out a year too early rather than a year too late. Yeah. And the Brewers have done that exceptionally well. I love who they are and what they've done. And then this will be uh intended for Doug Russell. I don't know if Doug listens. But Doug and I had this argument many, many, many times over the years. He said, I would trade for one World Series, even if for the next nine years we average 98 losses. And I said, Not a chance. Not a chance. I would never do it because you then are absolving yourself from living through the nine years. Because then all you're gonna do is turn and say, Yeah, but we won the World Series back in 2019. Yeah. Yeah, but for the next nine years, you were dog shit. Yeah, like bad. Yeah. I I don't I do I want them to win a World Series more than anything. I'm a 62-year-old who's been a Brew fan for 50 of those years. Yeah. Um, I want it. Yeah. But I wouldn't trade it if then you said, hey, by the way, Mike, you're gonna live to 90, because my dad just turned 90. You're gonna live to 90, but the Brewers win the World Series this year, but they're gonna make the playoffs twice the remainder of your life. Would I trade that for that? Not a chance.
SPEAKER_03No, no, no. Like we talk about 162 games. Like yesterday, I was sad. There was no brewer game on. You know, if yeah, now think about it a world that exists where 98, even if it's 70, 80 losses, where you don't give a shit every single day that you know they're at the ballpark because you know you're gonna see bad baseball. I want to see good baseball, yeah, 162 games a year. And then if we see good baseball for 162 games, we get a shot at the postseason. Right.
SPEAKER_02Uh Darren says, Does any no? Uh the answer is no. Nobody, nobody other than the people that live and work in it, and some bloggers or podcasters who just do only NBA stuff. Yeah. Like even on the NFL front to understand the full scope of contracts and expiring contracts and what goes against the cap and what's dead money and what doesn't, I don't know. I just read when they post it. Yeah. But for me to try to understand it, I'd have to go back and get a degree.
SPEAKER_03It's the NFL is an easier situation. Luxury tax isn't a thing. And I read an article like in March, and actually it came out, that's not true. It came out in February on what Green Bay was going to need to do. Yeah. Because the fan base generally, that article, that was a 20-minute intense read. It was amazing about everything. I forget the author, about everything that the author had talked about happened. I mean, Rashawn Gary was going to happen anyways. So, and that's the NFL. That that's not the NBA. Yeah, it's a waste of everybody's time to try to figure that out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Uh, I I just think we've been even with so since 2011, we have one in-state professional sports championship. After 2011. Correct. So after the Packers won their Super Bowl in the 2010 season, 2011 Super Bowl, there's been one title of our three pro sports teams, and that's the Bucs. There has been only one appearance in a championship round. The Packers have not been back to the Super Bowl. The Brewers have not been to a World Series since '82, and the Bucks only played in the one NBA finals. Yet I think we've been so freaking lucky to have the teams that. That we've watched in the last decade and a half, you can go further back than that. But even if you just go the last decade and say, Oh my God, how lucky have we been? Have we gotten home? You know, the Packers have some heartbreak in the NFC Championship game three times? Yep, they do. Uh, do have the Brewers had some heartbreak losing in game seven of a National League Championship series and then getting swept in a National League Championship series? Yep. Did the Bucs bowed out against Toronto before they won, and then in the bubble in Orlando in COVID? Yep, we've had those. And now there's a great possibility that you're gonna move off of Giannis. Yet I wouldn't trade the last 10 years. How lucky have we had it? No. There is drama. The NFL season's the shortest, right? Uh, but you begin the anticipation of your team when you go to training camp in July. And how excited have we been about who the Packers can be for a long time, but certainly in the last decade, there were a couple of runs where you go the transition from Rogers to Love. You go, I don't know if this is gonna be a playoff team kind of a thing. And they they they you know they weren't. Yeah. Um, but the next year they were, and then they went in Dallas and lose in San Francisco. But you could see, and and the last couple of years haven't been as good. We have had very good fortune, and from a team management standpoint, the reason we've had good fortune as fans is because they're really well run in Green Bay and in Milwaukee. 100% those have been really well run. And I know people will take their shot at John Horst. I I don't agree with take, I mean, he made some difficult decisions, but nobody bitched about acquiring Dame Lillard. I think the the juice, that juice was real, yeah. It just didn't work.
SPEAKER_03Didn't work. You so I'll give you, I mean, top of the head. The towards the end of what you just said. Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Indians, yeah. Um guardians now, yeah. Excuse me, guardians. Wow, that's I kind of kind of liked it with it.
SPEAKER_01Look at you go.
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, and Cavaliers. Now the Cavaliers had a little success, but tough city to live in. Yeah. The the Washington, the Nats, the Wizards, yeah. Um go to Detroit. And I won't call them the Redskins. Yeah, don't call them the Commanders. Go to Detroit, go to the same thing. Detroit, same thing. Knicks, Jets, yeah, um, and Mets. Yeah. I mean, in by the way, in a city, Mets have been trying to buy a World Series for the last several years. So that's three cities without even really spending much time thinking about it. That's not in all larger markets, right? Cleveland's similar, but larger, probably in some way. Um all larger markets, arguably with more resources, sure. Yeah, and they can't fucking find a win with both hands. I mean, so yes, we and we all want to keep it rolling. And I actually think we are very well set up because of what you just laid out. If we look at front office and we look at coaches, say what you want about LaFleur. I know there's plenty of it. Right. Um, you look at commitments from owners, we're gonna keep this rolling.
SPEAKER_02Well, let me let me ask this a different way. Let's just go to the NFC North, essentially. Would you rather be a pro sports fan in Detroit, Chicago, Minneapolis, or Milwaukee for the last decade or so? Look at the pain Chicago has been through. So though, by the way, and and I'm kind of a wild fan because my daughter Georgia used to work for the Wild in the National Hockey League. Um, they got beat again last night. They're down 3-1 to Colorado. That series is probably over. The NHL's funky, so maybe it's not over, but it might be. But uh, the state of hockey has never won a Stanley Cup. Minnesota has never won a Stanley Cup. That's amazing. They've never won a Super Bowl. Their last World Series is a Kirby Puckett-led Minnesota Twins World Series. I mean, it's been forever. Forever. If you're a fan in Minneapolis, you don't win. No. Right? Okay, so now let's take it to Detroit. Now that I believe, I mean, the Red Wings have had some Stanley Cup success. Yep. Okay, I don't follow the NHL close enough to know when the last one was, but uh they've had they've had success. The Tigers' last success is, I believe, when Leland is coaching. I might have that wrong. Kirk Gibson. Yeah. Uh that's their last success. The Lions thought they were home with Dan Campbell a couple of years ago until they weren't. Yeah. And then they lose coordinators, and then last year they were mostly horseshit. Um and the Pistons right now are on the verge. Yeah. But you got to go back to Isaiah's Pistons, yeah, the last time they had real joy. Yeah. And then Chicago, we can document it. They won a World Series in 16. Yeah. But the Bears have have won in the Super Bowl era. It's 1985. Uh, I won a national championship that year. That's how long it is ago at UW Oshkos. It hadn't happened since. Uh the Cubs have had some success. Obviously, you have the Jordan Bulls and the Blackhawks have had Stanley Cup title success. But if we're talking about Bears Cubs, the Cubs have theirs. Yeah. Brewers don't. So they have, you know, they have the end of the argument, mic drop. Yeah, we got ours. Where's yours? Yeah. And I get it. But if I'm if I'm a fan over the last 10 years, other than the Cubs World Series, and I had to pick one of these cities to be a fan in that city, whew. Yeah. I'm okay with Milwaukee and include the Packers in that conversation. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed completely. Um, I wanted to uh touch base on a couple of Brewers' numbers before we uh slide. Where are we? About uh eight or nine minutes left. So the Brewers right now, seventh best record in baseball. They take on the Padres tonight, tomorrow night, and Thursday afternoon. Uh tonight the Padres have decided to go with an opener in Bradgley Rodriguez. Matt Waldron will follow. Brandon Sprout for the Brewers. Tomorrow, uh, Miz goes for the Brewers against Michael King. He doesn't matter. Miz goes tomorrow for the Brewers. Griffin Canning and Kyle Harrison in the Matinee on Thursday. Um, quick while I'm thinking about it, tomorrow on the show, Bill Schroeder, Rock, right out of the gate, top of the show. You know, I'll introduce the show and then Rock is in. And I'll let he's gonna call the game, he's gonna call the series in Minnesota this weekend. He doesn't do road series very often, but he's gonna head up and do that series. And I love talking to Rock. So Rock will join us out of the gate. Luke Fickle's gonna join us live tomorrow on the program at 10:30. So tomorrow is is uh a very guest-driven show. Bill Schroeder, Rock for the Brewers TV uh analyst, top of the show. Luke Fickle, Wisconsin football coach, live on the program at 10:30 tomorrow. I'm fired up about both of those. Don't miss it. That's going on tomorrow. Back to the Brewers. They're tied for last in home runs in Major League Baseball. So then I went a little bit beyond that. They're fifth in runs per game. They're eighth overall in runs, but they played fewer games because of a rainout here and there. Yeah. So in runs per game, they're fifth. In walks, they're second in walks per game, second in all of baseball. In um in OPS, they have the their third in OPS in a league. Their third highest or third best whip walks and hits per innings pitched in Major League Baseball, third fewest strikeouts, second in stolen bases per game at 1.05, second in sacrifice bunts in Major League Baseball, and fourth in team pitching earned run average. Holy shit. It's amazing, right? Yeah. I mean, it's really good. They're obviously they're three and a half games back of the Cubs. They're tied with St. Louis uh for second place, but percentage points ahead of them uh in the standings. And the Cubs are gonna play in Atlanta for three against the best team in baseball so far. Um, and the Cubs have been having scored a run since Friday. They didn't score Saturday, I don't think they got shot out. They didn't score Sunday, I don't think they got shot out. They didn't play yesterday, so it's Friday. We're getting close to a week since they've scored a run. They'll be in Atlanta.
SPEAKER_03The the stats you just laid out, and then you throw run differential up as well, which we've had plus 54. Yeah, which and we we've been in the top three or four in run differential in the NL for large most of the season. Some outlier games, 13-1, 13-2. But when you the stats you just read through is how you win consistently, right? So if you had started out that with the Brewers are leading all of MLB and home runs. Um, I don't know that you can yeah, you know, low you we pretty much are close there, but lowest team ERA, like those are the things that revert, you know, to the mean, right? Those are you can't, they're not sustainable. Right. But when you take six, seven, eight statistics that we know generally WIP team ERA, what leading walks, OPS, those are the things that are that are sustainable, right? Because they're not out, they're not outlier things. They're this team's playing really smart baseball right now.
SPEAKER_02And it's Matt Arnold and his uh ivory tower staff that Murph calls it. Yeah, it's it's who they put together, and then it is the way Murph manages, yeah. Like you can't manage, like would Murph be successful with the Yankees roster? I think so, but he'd manage it differently. Anyone uh I I've had this discussion throughout the years, I've been around the games for a long time. Anyone that says, hey, you got to coach everybody the same, that's bullshit.
SPEAKER_03That's bullshit.
SPEAKER_02It's a lie. It's it's been it's a lie perpetuated over the years. You got to coach. Listen, you don't have to coach the players the same. You better not. You can't. You got to be coached differently than me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you got to understand the motivations of if you're a manager or coach, you need to understand the motivations of every single player so that you can get the best out of each one of them.
SPEAKER_02Even at the level of, hey, the rules are the rules, there are, and Dick Bennett would say this there are non-negotiables, right? And I think we've seen that from Pat Murphy. If a player does something that's a non-negotiable, the player is gonna know about it. Yeah. Now, some players get taken out of the game. Yelich probably wouldn't, but I promise you that Yelich and Murphy have a conversation about that. If if Yelich did, okay, let's let me use a different example. Uh William Contreras doesn't always run hard. Do you think if there's one of those times where Contreras doesn't go hard and then on the exchange of ball to glove or glove to ball uh hand, the shortstop drops it and then picks it up and still throws him out? I don't think Contreras is coming out of the game. Caleb Durban a year ago would have. Yeah. Sal Freelick might still, yeah, a young player is coming out, but I although we don't get told this, I guarantee you that the look or one something that Murph and Contreras have is the understanding. You don't get to do that. Yeah, I can't have you do that and then me take Sal out of the game for doing the same thing. That's right. But you do manage them and coach them differently. And those numbers that we went through, they're really impressive because of the roster that Mark Octanasio has allowed Matt Arnold and his player personnel staff to put together and the way Murph and Jim Henderson, Chris Hook, the Chris Hook, Jim Henderson, the pitching coaches, yeah, and Matt Erickson and others, Jason Lane, the way they, Charlie Green, the way they manage them and coach them, it is all the recipe for how good the Brewers have been. I don't know if they're gonna be a World Series contender this year. I hope they are. Yeah, they're playing really entertaining baseball. They haven't swept the Yankees in a three-game set since the 1980s. Yep. It's fun to watch, and I think you have to enjoy these stops on the journey. You it's like you pulled over for um, you know, the um on the interstate where they say uh scenic look, yeah, scenic uh overlook. Yeah, you know, one mile ahead. Pull over and take a look right now. That was a pretty scenic stop that we just had against the Yankees over the weekend. It's amazing. Yeah, it's amazing. Um, all right. We we run out of time. Let me just again go through this process. One community.bank, uh a beautiful sponsor. We thank them for their community support and our partnership with them. I do the same with M3 Insurance. Go to M3INS.com. It matters that they're a part of the show. I hope it matters to you and you give them a chance to earn your business. Also presented by the neuroscience group. If you're having pain issues, neurology issues, brain issues, neuroscience group.com is where you go to get your answers. Also presented by Potawatomi Sportsbook and Casino Bet Above the Rest. We're gonna do some shows from there as we get through the summer. Uh, and I hope that when we do, you stop by and see us. And also presented by Havish, Habish, and Rotier, 13 locations. Why? So you get a hometown attorney that ensures that you get the result that you're looking for. Uh, my thanks to Jeff Bilker. Now, Tread's gonna uh Tred's gonna go spend a little time on the travel circuit. Yeah, you're gonna gallivant.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna get to gallivant across Europe.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got accused of being a gallivanter by uh CC yesterday, and I I took it. I I own it. Um, so you're gonna miss next week and the week after.
SPEAKER_03That yeah, two two Tuesdays.
SPEAKER_02Two Tuesdays. All right, so I hope you got your fill today. Yes, uh Courtney Corning will jump in. One of those Tuesdays, we'll figure out CeC, Courtney Corning, CeC will jump in. I'm excited to have CeC back because I I mean I haven't done a show with him now in a little bit. He's awesome. Yeah. Uh so we'll be back. And then uh tomorrow, man, you don't want to miss it. Out of the gate, Bill Schroeder, Rock, one of my favorites of all time. Brewer's longtime TV analyst, let me Hall of Famer at some point on the broadcast side. Rock will join me right out of the gate. And Badger football coach Luke Fickle, live on the program tomorrow at 10:30. It's gonna be a hell of a day. Thanks for being with us today. We'll do it again tomorrow. I love Mondays, the podcast. Thanks for being on with us.
SPEAKER_00I love Mondays with my help.