I Love Mondays-Ep59, May 21, 2026

We enjoy and savor the Brewers sweep over the Cubs at Wrigley...with Brewers TV Analyst Vinny Rottino.  The Cubs frustration is our Joy.  The trades that helped put the Brewers in this spot...and why Kyle Harrison can be so effective.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

I love Mondays with Mike Heller.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Broadcasting live from an undisclosed bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Nothing but smiles on this Thursday, the I Love Monday, Thursday edition, and it doesn't get any better. It feels like a Monday. I I love Mondays, and it feels like a Monday. When your team goes in to your biggest rivals, ballpark, and takes all three and demoralizes the other side. So you've got some fighting going on on the other side. It is all good. Everything is good. Let me remind you, uh, coming to you this week from the beautiful and lovely confines of Scottsdale, Arizona. Our daughter Ellen will get married on Sunday. Ellen and Johnny, uh, we we get to grow the family a little bit, and most of the remainder of the family will arrive here today. A big thanks uh to my friends, Tom and Heidi, who have allowed us to stay in their fantastic place here in Scottsdale for a few days uh before we uh we're gonna relocate to an Airbnb home where all the family's gonna stay. And that begins um later this afternoon. But so tomorrow I'll come to you from a different venue. Let me get through the good morning wishes. So good morning from James, uh, and right back at you from Mike as well in Merrill. Good morning to all and a sunshine there. Uh, is it a good morning, Yo Von, the 630 guy? Is it? He is a Cubs honk. Uh, so are you feeling the good morning, yo, or is that just you being polite? Because I I don't think you are. I'm gonna play a little something from Cap from ESPN 1000 in Chicago, Captain Hood, the morning show. Kaplan joined us Monday, and uh I'm gonna play you his reaction or a portion of his reaction from last night, which brings me joy. It brings me joy. I you'll understand why here in a couple of moments. James says, good morning, Mike. Take that, Cubs. Mark Benson uh jumps in and says sweep with four exclamation points. I think that's four. Um Mike came back in with a baseball and the brooms, and uh, and Mark, after he put in sweep, wishes us a good morning. So the pleasantries. Listen, there are elements to this series that are in play. And by the way, Vinny Rettino, who was on the analyst side of the Brewers TV call the last three nights in Wrigley, he'll join us in about uh 12 minutes. Um, the Brewers outscored the Cubs 19-5 in the three-game series. They outhit the Cubs 32 to 16, and they struck out Cubs Cubs hitters 36 times in the three games. Since April the 28th, I'm gonna I'm gonna exhaust all of my numbers out of the gate here. Since April 28th, the Brewers have played seven series. They are 6-0 and 1. Now they split with the Cardinals in a two-game set with a rain out in that series. Otherwise, they have won six and tied one series since April the 28th. That's a 15-5 record. Kyle Harrison last night went seven innings, two hits, eleven strikeouts, one walk, 94 pitches. First nine games started 1.77 ERA. In Brewer's history, the only better start from an ERA standpoint in the first nine starts is CC Sabathia. And he was at 1.6. Miz the night before went six innings, three hits, eight strikeouts, one walk. He's gone 24 and a third scoreless. Last extra base hit was April the 19th. So the Brewers lead the division by a game and a half, and uh they are plus 75 in run differential. Second place is St. Louis. It's by percentage points. Both the Cardinals and the Cubs are a game and a half back. The Cardinals are 28-20 with a minus one run differential. The Cubs are 29 and 21 plus 28. Cubs are off today. Brewers are off today. Cardinals uh will wrap up their series with Pittsburgh today, then they go to Cincinnati. Uh, Cincinnati is off before the Cardinals come to town. If Pittsburgh has that game with St. Louis, then they'll go to Toronto. This is what I'm talking about from what brings me great joy. Uh I don't have a I'll figure out a better way to do this, but for now, I don't have a better way to do this. So I am I'm gonna play you the audio version of uh of Kaplan's. So David Kaplan, who joined us on the show Monday, he he's one of those um, he's a great hometown sports talk show host. The morning show on ESPN 1000 joined us on this show Monday. He does a recap. I need to take some things out of his pages, out of his book. He does a recap on a nightly basis, and maybe that'll be something we uh jump into the fray here. It's not unique, but it is something I don't do that that he does, that he does very well. But he is very much on the the Joe fan, average fan concept. This is his audio version of his reaction when after the Brewers won the game to sweep the Cubs last night. This is what that sounded like from David Kaplan tonight.

SPEAKER_02 6:07

Ian Hap in the Cubs lineup tonight. A good 0 for three with three strikeouts. I'm so freaking ticked off watching my favorite baseball team and watching that bullshit that that manager runs out there, and those guys look lost at the plate. They have no idea when to challenge. All of a sudden, in about 10 days, that team's gone from rolling to absolutely looking dead in the water. Oh, good news. Edward Kabr had to leave with a blister on his hand. And so who knows if he's headed to the injured list. I don't know what they're gonna do there. Just another kick in the you know what's. Let me get the rest of this uh for you and I'll get you off to the rest. Your Wednesday. He's not done. But I it I gotta tell you, folks, this manager, he drives me insane because I think he is vastly overrated. Eight million dollars for that dude? Show me the tactical advantage that he brings to the Chicago Cubs. I haven't seen it since he got here. Absolutely an awful looking team at this point in time. And if I can't have one more time, say how good is that?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

I I take great joke. I don't know if you're wired like me. I'm a sports talk. I mean, when I'm driving or anytime I'm I I listen to music on the golf course. Otherwise, I listen to sports talk. So when now it didn't happen this way, but when the Packers beat the Bears, I want to listen to Chicago sports talk. When the Packers beat the Vikings, I want to listen to Paul Allen and and their crew react the day after. I take great joy in those elements of sports when you can I I I don't love this in life, but in sports, I love it taking some joy in others' anguish because it is sports. And ultimately, other than the coaches and the players involved, it doesn't matter. You can wipe it clear. It's it's not a medical diagnosis, it's not real life. So I can live, and in fact, I take great joy in listening to Cap lose it. Listening to him lose it. I hate it when we have to lose it, but I try to be, you know, try to couch some of that and be a little bit more rational about it. Cap is, he is so into it. He is like you couldn't see it, but when he was talking about Ian Happ being put third in the lineup when he had 19 strikeouts in his last 34 at bats, and he was elevated to third in the lineup last night, he threw his phone. Now he's sitting on a couch, so he threw it into a pillow or a cushion, but he literally threw his phone. They are so in their own heads right now. The Brewers are rent-free on the north side of Chicago. We've had this conversation about Craig Council. I don't agree with Cap. Here's the part I agree with. Was a manager, was Craig worth that amount of money in Chicago? The simple answer to me is no. But they wanted Jed Hoyer wanted, they wanted a spark. They really haven't gotten it, but let's keep in mind this. It's May 21st. It's May the freaking 21st. You've got a hundred and I don't know, what is it, 109, 110 games left to play? Settle back. The Cubs are on pace for 96 wins, something like that. The Brewers are on pace for 100. Do I think the Brewers are gonna win 100? No. Do I think the Cubs are gonna win 96? Maybe. I think the Brewers are gonna be right with the Cubs when it's all said and done. And I just like making fun and enjoying the process when the team that you hate is struggling. So uh run through a little bit of this. Yovan, the 6-3-0 guy, Cubs guy. And is by the way, if you're watching on the screen, he's got that fly the W. It's been a while. Fly the L. Remember when Cap was on on Monday. If you were listening, he thought it was the dumbest thing he's seen in sports in a long time. Well, I I enjoyed it. Uh, Yovan says Cubs will not win another game against the Brewers this year. I'll take that bet. I'll take the bet. What do you what are you gonna what are you gonna buy me? You're gonna buy me a bourbon at my bar? Okay. Yeah, yo, I'll let you buy me a bourbon at red and white when the Cubs beat the Brewers the next game. Because they will. They will win a game against the Brewers. So uh uh Darren, uh friend uh uh Appleton guy uh asked if uh my sisters will be at the wedding. Tell them hi from Darren Bodo. They won't be at this one, but they will be at our daughter Elizabeth's wedding next uh month in Minneapolis. Spencer says, good morning, Mike. Spencer, you you're later than the uh the than the others in there. Uh Zach, who is very familiar with my surroundings here, uh winding up rival teams fan base is one of the best compliments a team can get. Absolutely. And Mike and Merrill, what uh was it nice? It didn't even have to showcase our relievers, which bodes well for the upcoming games in the end of June in Milwaukee because they haven't seen them. There's there's an underlying current there, no doubt. Um I've asked athletes this for a long time. It's one of my go-to questions when I get somebody um who is on the court and instrumental or on the field and instrumental in uh wins, if they enjoy winning more on the road or at home. And it's about an even split, but they they rave about the merits of shutting up a home crowd. You know, that like think of San Antonio and game one at Oklahoma City. The satisfaction there is enormous. It's enormous. When Montreal wins in Buffalo in game seven uh in the Stanley Cup playoffs, that silence is deafening and it's so enjoyable for those who are on the ice, on the court, on the field. What the Brewers did in the last three days is uh is a blast. If you can't and if you can't stop to enjoy these moments, then I feel bad for you because there are people out there that say, I don't care. Uh tell me what they do in October. And and I'm this is where I dude you, dude. Really? If you can't enjoy this, these moments, what do you have? Like if you can't stop and you know, there on this drive out, there are scenic overlooks in Colorado and northern Utah and parts of Arizona that you know, how often do you stop and look? Enjoy part of the journey. This is a great portion of the journey. The Brewers have won six of their last seven series. In the one series they didn't win, they tied. Enjoy this. This is these are extraordinary moments, and it's all part of a long season. It's a chapter book. Every day there's a new chapter written in a major league baseball season. The Brewers won't write a chapter today, but they'll start against the Dodgers tomorrow and then the Cardinals on Monday. Every day there is a new entry in this season-long diary. It's what I love so much about baseball is that you get these journal entries every day. In football, and football is the greatest one going, right? I get it. You write one journal entry a week, and then we discuss it for six days. In baseball, you write one every day, and the narrative changes. A couple of notes on this, and I'm gonna bring in uh Vinny Rettino. I thought that uh that PCA should have sat yesterday against a tough left-hander. It looks like he needs a day off. He didn't get one the night before against Miz. He's had a week. He had his run-in in on the south side of Chicago at Rate Field against the White Sox with a fan. Then on uh Tuesday night, he dropped the fly ball. He's the best defensive outfielder in Major League Baseball, by some estimations. Kaplan told us that when he was on the show on Monday. He dropped the fly ball, and then yesterday he let a line drive two hopper to him go right through his legs. And if you watch it initially, when he turns to go get it, he's in a jog for two to three steps before he decides he he better go. I thought that Craig and maybe Murph would have done this. I'm gonna ask Vinny as I bring him in. Let's go ahead and bring Vinny into the to the equation uh right now. I gotta there he goes. Vinny, how are you? What's up, Mike? Can you hear me all right? I gotcha. There's some joy in this, and I, you know, and I I get that, especially from a fan standpoint, but I wonder if there's joy. I'm gonna get to that part from a player. Uh obviously you're an analyst and you got a vested interest in it. But do you when you watched PCA, do you think he needed a night off? Or do you think Murph might have done it differently after the the line drive from Hamilton goes through his legs?

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Well, he shouldn't have he shouldn't have even been playing that game. I agree with you. He should have had a night off against a tough lefty and Kyle Harrison. Um, but after that ball went through his legs, I think Murphy would have definitely pulled him out of the game. We saw Murphy do that last year when Sal Freelick missed the cutoff man, right? Yeah, so I think 100% you send a message. Um, he know, and that's the thing. You listen to PCA's comments after the game, it's a tough place to play. It's not as tough as New York, it's not as tough as, let's say, Boston. Um, but maybe Boston, right? I mean, it's a tough place to play, it's a tough media market. And so his comments after the game were very somber, they were very um, he looked like he was almost feeling sorry for himself a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And so about letting the city down, right? Boy, you're carrying too much weight if you're worried about letting the city of Chicago down in a in a five-game stretch in May.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, so I mean, there's too much weight on his shoulders, it seems so he should have he shouldn't have played that. That's not the right head space to be in. You would never hear you know Michael Jordan say that. Of course, I'm not comparing him to Michael Jordan, but you'd never hear a guy and they paid him a lot of money to be a superstar, and he is far from it right now. And so he should have had a day. The Brewers and this rivalry, I think, is totally in the heads of the Cub's players, and including PCA. I mean, the the so I I can keep going. That was so much fun to do that series, but yeah, he should have had a day, and counselors probably could have handled that a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Let me ask you about the players' mentality. I said earlier that I've asked athletes this for my entire career if they enjoy winning more at home or on the road. There's a great joy to shutting up a sold-out, hyped up crowd on the road. And the Brewers did that three nights in a row at Wrigley. Uh, walk me through a player mentality of those moments.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

Well, it's it's all it's awesome to do that for sure. If it's a rivalry, that adds another layer to it. And if it's a rivalry against the playoff team that that kind of got in your heads last year, remember they were chanting Freddy, Freddie, Freddy, when Freddie was on the mound last year, and it definitely affected him. It's all of a sudden you come in to that hostile Wrigley crowd and you totally silence them, not only in game one, not only in game two, but you sweep them, you outscore them 19 to 5. You can't you actually embarrass them on their own field. And that feels all those different layers added on that hundred 100, Mike. That that feels good as a player. Um, and especially because, you know, the fans the fans come up and they call it Wrigley North, and and all of a sudden you come down and you make you make American Family Field South, you know, and you could you could call it that, right? Um, just because the way that they were able to silence those Cub fans, it feels uh it feels so good. It feels so good as a as an analyst to come in there and watch what that what happened to that crowd. They were totally dejected. They're uh they had the wind taken out of their sails, and that'll affect them going forward. Watch.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Yeah, John uh sends in emptied out Wrigley was majestic. Uh and a lot of Brewers fans making their way down. Uh Darren Wade in, uh, or Brian Wade in Cubs losing now. It's football season's fans chanting Green Bay sucks. You know, that what one of the great things was two nights ago uh when Jake Bowers is at the plate and there is the chant going on uh that Green Bay sucks, and then Jake Bowers hits a three-run homer while they're chanting. Thank you. That was uh those moments are so good. Let me, you know, we forget about this, but I'm gonna bring it back to the table. A year ago, and I don't know the dates, so but it doesn't matter, you'll get where I'm going. A year ago, there was a rainout at Wrigley that it didn't rain that night. Murph got Murph was hot. Like then the next night they beat him, but Murph was he was in a mood. And since that moment where they had the rain out last year on a non-rain day, the Brewers have, other than the two playoff games in Chicago, where they got beat in those two, they've kind of dominated what's been going on. Murph doesn't forget he like he's on these things matter to him, don't they?

SPEAKER_04 20:43

100%. And they don't see these games. Trust me, they do not. And I know the front office doesn't, uh the players don't. Murph does it, the coaching staff doesn't. They don't see these games against the Cubs as just one out of 162 games. Absolutely not. They do not. Uh, yes, that was a unique situation because the rain out, then they could have played a double header the next day. They did not want to face Jason Jacob Mizarowski. Right. Okay. And so the rain out happened. And this is interesting because I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of bring this back full kind of circle here of what you're talking about. So then they had to play a double header during a stretch where they had to play what was it, 17, yes, 16 games in 17 days or some crazy stretch.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yeah, I think it was more games than days.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

I thought it was more games than days, right? Because of the double header, 18 games in 17 days. That's what it was. And so remember, Mike, they brought up Robert Gasser to spot start against the Minnesota Twins when it was Ms. Day to pitch. Yeah, if you remember that. So why? I I personally and I don't have confirmation on this, but I personally think that it's because okay, you don't want to face Ms. last year, you're gonna face him this time in game one when we come to Wrigley first time to face you. And and there's some of that where there's some spite to it, and we're gonna okay, you don't want to face him, you're gonna face him now. But there's also some strategy to that because why the divisional games mean more, they just do because of the tiebreaker, right? Not only because you're you're gonna battle all year long in this division, but at the same time, the tiebreaker is whoever wins the season series gets that tiebreaker if there isn't in case a tie. So um, I thought that that was a little bit of you know, a little middle finger to the Cubs, you know, hey, you don't want to face them last year, we're you're gonna face them uh this upcoming series. And and he showed up in a big way. They and he silenced their bats all series long. I I really do believe that. Even though they're cold, you still you face a Jacob Mizarowski throwing like he has been throwing, and you embarrass those hitters the way that he did. And I'm using that word without hyperbole, he embarrassed the Cubs hitters, and all of a sudden you have to well, it was game two, but but then all of a sudden now you got to do it, do it again against Kyle Harrison, and he was just as good.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Yeah, and and the work that they've gotten. I won't I want to talk about Kyle Harrison. Uh, but let me do this, let me go backwards. The bullpen work that they got from Chad Patrick, from uh drone, last night from DL Hall. Uh, keeping some of your big guns down pays dividends, not just short term. But we had a uh somebody in on our YouTube comments that said, well, now the Cubs uh really haven't seen the Brewers' elite end of the bullpen much in this series. So the next time they see them, it'll be the first time that they're kind of seeing him. That work it maybe goes unnoticed by some, but uh, but you know it better than I do. It it's it's important what they got out of the bullpen when Miz left, and the work that they got from Patrick over the weekend, all of it matters.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Yeah, that's a really good, astute point by I forget who made that comment. Yeah, I read that comment too. That's a really astute point because yes, you see these relievers enough, and you see this in the playoffs all the time where the relievers are coming in after the third inning. The starter goes one time through the order in the playoffs, and all of a sudden, in a five-game series, you're seeing the same relievers over and over and over again. There's no element of a surprise, it's almost like you know, the third time through the order stat, which hurts, it's a detriment to pitchers. Now all of a sudden, okay, you're bringing in a reliever. Okay, that's the third at bat against this guy in that series. Same idea here in the regular season, 100%. Chad Patrick has been phenomenal. Drone Shane Drone's been phenomenal in piggybacking Brandon Sprout and also piggybacking Robert Gasser in the Minnesota that Minnesota game. Um, and it's um so it allows it allows not only you not to overexpose to the opposing batters your high-end leverage relievers, but it also keeps them fresh. Think about how gassed that they were. Remember, Abner Uribe last year in October was he his VLO kind of was down a little bit. He, I mean, he threw so many innings. Same thing with Trevor McGill at the start of this season. I he looked like he was hurt again. And now all of a sudden you're gonna have Chad Patrick that can throw multiples, Shane Drowan that can throw throw multiples, although he might end up in the rotation at some point, he's throwing so well. Um, you're you're covering these innings, and then remember, Mike, you're not only covering those innings because they can go long in a game, 50 pitches, 51 pitches for Chad Patrick, that last game in Minnesota, but also on his bullpen day. Now I say that because as a starter, that second day after your start, you're throwing a bullpen. They're not doing that with Chad Patrick. I know he's in the bullpen, but they're not having him throw a bullpen. They're keeping him stretched out, but they're having him throw that one inning or that short appearance on that third day after he just threw 52 pitches in Minnesota. So it's kind of brilliant the way that they're navigating this. They have so much starting pitching depth that they can do this and it's gonna pay off dividends for their bullpen in the in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Tell us uh why Kyle Harrison is so untouchable right now. He's really a two-pitch pitcher, and uh the stuff is good, it's not phenomenal like from a VLO standpoint, although he he hit didn't he hit 98 last night. Um, why is is he so good? I know that they've liked his talent previously, but he hadn't had this level of success. And I know we're kind of beating a dead horse on Chris Hook and Jim Henderson and what the Brewers do with pitchers, but what did the Cubs not see from him? Why could they not touch him? Why was he so good again last night?

SPEAKER_04 26:29

So he's always had a great fastball. So that's part of the reason why the Brewers identified him and then go ahead and acquire a guy that has a fastball that is hard to square up. There's some there's some qualities, release characteristics, they call them, out of the hand of Kyle Harrison that makes it deceptive for a hitter to be able to pick up. Average fastball at 94 and a half or 95 miles per hour, which is good good velocity. But at the same time, if you have these other things about the fastball that make it deceptive, make it hard to pick up from a hitter, then then you're gonna go ahead and and realize. And the Brewers do a great job of this. Realize, all right, there that leaves a lot of room for error for a guy like Kyle Harrison, meaning he doesn't have to be great with his command. He he can throw it in the zone and he's gonna get a lot of swings and misses on it. He's gonna get a lot of miss hits on it, a lot of pop-ups on it. We saw that we've seen that his entire you know, Brewers tenure so far. Um, and so what makes what makes him so deceptive? Okay, a couple of things. So think about if a pitcher is releasing the ball. This is a little nerdy, but it I'll try and make it simple. Releasing the ball closer to the ground in space. Okay, that's kind of what he does. Same thing with Jacob Mizerowski. So they have a low release height. Think about think about if a pitcher is releasing, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Where it's different from arm angle, it's how your body, you know, maybe that where your legs are bent and and how go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

Yeah, the way that he gets down the mound. Now, now it's not deceptive if you're if you're seeing a guy with a low arm angle, like you pointed out, but is throwing kind of sidearm and throwing sinkers. A hitter's brain says, Okay, that's a sinker. I've seen that a million times from a sidearm low three-quarter guy. That's a sinker, and I'm gonna expect the ball to sink. Now, with with Kyle Harrison, he's not throwing a sinker, he's throwing an exceptional four-seamer at the top of the zone. So the hitter's brain says, I'm expecting that to sink, but it's not. That's essentially what's happening, and that's why it's so hard to get on top of guys like like Kyle Harrison. Freddie Peralta had the same thing, right? And and so there's other things about it, like so. He's a little bit across his body as well. So he's got an angle, basically angles it into a right hander. It's going across like this. So there's other things that make him hard to square up, and now um you're you're seeing him, and the big thing about what he's doing, and again, yes, Chris Hook, Jim Henderson, and Juan Sandoval, they've taught him to repeat his delivery at a very high level now. So it's almost like a jump shooter who has a great jump shot, it can repeat it over and over and over. It's obviously different, right? But it's the idea of being smooth, fluid, and athletic through your release and being able to repeat it over and over. Kyle Harrison, he is a good athlete. He doesn't necessarily you take a look at his body type, doesn't necessarily look like a great athlete, but the way that he is repeating his delivery in explosive, he is super explosive, is the reason why he's been so successful.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

I am uh I want to jump into some front office stuff here in a moment, but uh there's that what's that video program that now hitters get to hit against, um, in which they can see what's it? It's called Traject. Okay, so does everybody have it? Is it in their facilities, like in the brewers' indoor cages by the clubhouse? Is that part of the system?

SPEAKER_04 29:57

Uh yep, every team has it. The brewer's traject system is in the cage that you walk by every time that you go to the clubhouse.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

So so when you're talking about being deceptive in Kyle Harrison, I mean uh the Cubs obviously have the same thing. Are there hitters in prep? Are there hitters the day of working against their opposing pitcher for that night in the cage? Is that a routine thing now?

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Yeah, they're they're they're doing it. It's still something about that's a great question. There's still something about it where it still makes it difficult now, especially because especially because now you're still pitching, you're still you so you have that deceptive fastball, but now all of a sudden he's throwing that slurve off of it, right? So now you have to contend with top and bottom. And the other thing you're seeing teams do, and I saw this, and they're doing against Jacob Mizerowski, they're putting the pitching machine on the ground and they're shooting it upwards to kind of simulate, yeah. To kind of simulate, okay, how where does my barrel have to be to get on top? All that's well and good, and I'm sure it's helped some hitters kind of learn how to keep that barrel on top of the baseball. But now all of a sudden, you you're still it's still old school pitching to go along with all this deceptive, nerdy stuff, right? So yeah, and that's what the difference is. We saw Jacob Mizarowski get hit last year. He knows he has always had that deceptive fastball. Same thing with Kyle Harrison, he's always had this deceptive fastball, but now you add in the fact that these guys are repeating their delivery at a high level and they're pitching, they're they're landing multiple pitches in the zone and they're they're going top to bottom. They're feeling okay, this hitter's looking for this, so I'm gonna I'm gonna break off that slurve back foot. Oh, he thinks that I might be thinking that I'm gonna go back up top. You know, it's that cat and mouse, that's the art of this, and so that's why you can train for it all day long, but you still have to you still have to contend against the guy who's who's doing uh you know mind tricks with you in the in the box.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Vinny, one other nerdy thing, and then I'll get to the front office, which is also gonna be a little nerdy. Um, when we watch replays of of swings and misses of whiffs on four seam fastballs, when we when they show the replay, the barrel is always always I shouldn't say always, almost always under the ball. And and that is what you're talking about because the hitter is late. Is that why it's under?

SPEAKER_04 32:23

He's late, and his brain says, The the ball's here, and I need to get the barrel there. But again, your eyes and your brain aren't aren't understanding that it's actually gravity, is actually not being forced on that baseball as much as it should. So that that's the nerdy part where it's actually almost so it looks like it's rising to the hip. Yeah, but it doesn't rise. But that's what it's an illusion, and that's why the hitters are underneath it. It's it's a blink of an eye, looks easy on TV, especially when you slow it down, but it is a blink of an eye, and you don't have a lot of time. In fact, you have so little time that you have to cheat, you have to start your swing in your brain before he releases the ball. That's how fast the ball is coming.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

It's why they look so awful, uh swinging and missing on sliders, because the brain says go fastball because it looks like it out of the hand, and then the ball bounces and they've still swung because he can't stop at that point. All right, let me let me go uh nerdy front office stuff. On January 21st, the Brewers made a trade with the Mets. They sent uh Freddie Peralta to New York, and in return, you got Brandon Sproat and Jet Williams. Now, Jet is all minor league stuff, but in 45 games, he's hitting 254 uh with 15 extra base hits. Five of those are home runs. His OPS AAA is 800. He's got 11 stolen bases. He's gonna be part of what they do at some point here. Brandon Sprout, seven games started, he's one and two, and his ERA is 575, but that is heavily inflated by his first outing. He's been fantastic. And here's the key on that trade because Freddie has been good for the Mets. The Mets are not good. He's got a 331 ERA and a 1.25 whip. He's been good. He's making $8 million, and it's a one-year deal because he's an unrestricted free agent. The Brewers, on the other hand, with Sprout, seven games started, and that ERA that I talked about that is high, inflated because of his first outing. He's making $780,000, and he's got two years of pre-arb in front of him. That's when we talk about these trades, it's why the Brewers made the move with Peralta with one year left to get this return. I don't know why people trade with the Brewers anymore because Matt Arnold wins these, but that's an example of winning. And there's another one I'll give you after you talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

It's yeah, they they continue to do this. They they're gonna churn their roster forever. I don't, unless you sign a guy to like what they signed Cooper Pratt and what they signed Jackson Churio to these long-term deals. I don't think we're I think this is working so well that I don't know if the brewers will ever sign a guy to like a 250 million dollar deal. And that might not be what fans want to see or hear, but this is working and be it's because of these trades like this. Freddie Peralta, yes, he was a great brewer. We all loved, we all hated to see him go because of what he meant to the city. Everyone loved it. He's such a great guy on top of his performance on the mound, but he got one year left, and then you get a guy who Brandon Sprote, he is nowhere close to being a finished product. There's gonna be a slower burn with his development, similar to what a Corbin Burns had to go through, almost a full year of struggling and going back down to AAA, pitching out of the bullpen, and then going into a starter role. There would be a slower, but he's got as good a stuff as a Corbin Burns. He throws 100, he's got a nasty cutter, nasty breakball. So if you can flip a Freddie Peralta and get a guy like that who you have such a track record of fixing pitchers and helping these guys become top end starters, why wouldn't you do that? And then you all of a sudden can add a Jet Williams in here who who look, I I get it, I hear the narrative, and I'm kind of in agreement. There needs to be something done about the left side of the infield in terms of offensive production, and maybe Jet Williams and Cooper Pratt are going to be those guys to help. Jet Williams looks like a guy, he almost looks like to me, he looks like Alex Bregman. I mean, it's he's short, he's he's as short as Alex Bregman, but he's got some thump in the bat to definitely to the pull side, and he can pick it at third, at second, even in center field. They they're talking about him being amazing in center. So why wouldn't you make those trades? I I am 100%, and Mike, we've talked about this too, and I'll just add this real quick that that the Brewers have in the fan base, the front office, the coaching, and I'll even say the fan, I'll even emphasize the fan base. We get it, that this is how we gotta do it. So we're gonna support these types of players and in their their development, even if it takes a long time at the big league level. We're not gonna boo players off the field like Caleb Durbin was getting booed after 20 at bats in Boston. Yeah, we we don't do that. That that's just not what we do. That's not, and and so it's an advantage to be a small market, but also with a fan base that gets it and gets that this is how we got to do it in order to be there's no other how many other teams have been this successful the last eight years? I mean, there's a the Dodgers, I think it's the Dodgers. Yeah, that's about it. So something's working, Mike.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Vinny, I want to get to the other trade, which is even more impressive, but let me do this first. Uh, let me talk about our sponsors because one community.bank is a great place for you to be, whether you're a first-time home buyer looking to purchase or build a new home or ready to refinance your existing mortgage. One community bank has a mortgage solution that will fit your needs. Go to onecommunity.bank. One community bank is a member FDIC and an equal housing lender. We're also presented by our friends at M3 Insurance. M3's commitment to small business runs deep. They're passionate about helping small businesses grow and stay strong by reducing the friction that comes with protecting their operations and their people. Go to M3INS.com. We're also brought to you by Neuroscience Group. After a car accident, workplace injury, or sports concussion. Getting the right care matters. Their comprehensive concussion program brings together specialists focused on helping you heal and get back to what you love, neurosciencegroup.com. And we're also presented by our friends at Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino. You can roll out the winning this May at Pottawatomi Casino Hotel, Milwaukee with Tic Tac Home Run. Also brought to you by Habish, Habish, and Rotier, all injury updates, including mine, presented by Habish, Habish, and Rotier, 13 locations to ensure you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury on you and your life. Personally committed to your recovery, Habish, Habish and Rotier. So, Vinny, as I go through the other trade that happened, this one happened on February 9th with the Red Sox. The Brewers sent Caleb Durbin, Andrew Monasterio, and Ziggler to Boston. Now, Zigler has not played at the Major League level this year, so he's got no major league service this year. Durbin is hitting 169, nine extra base hits, one home run. His OPS is 495. He's got four stolen bases. Monasterio, 26 games, a little bit better, 250 average, nine extra base hits and a home run, uh, a 682 OPS. But in return, the Brewers got Kyle Harrison, the guy we talked about last night. And Drone. He's eight and one, uh he's eight games, one start, and uh extraordinary numbers for him, 257 ERA, 1.14 whip. And they got David Hamilton. And and Vinny, you put all of those things together. And I didn't even mention money. Now the money is pretty even there because you're trading major league minimums for major league minimums, but there's control for the Brewers on the players on the return side. These things matter, and the Brewers are winning significant trades. They are so much better because of the players that they got in return for both of those sets of moves. And they weren't totally popular or really talked about extensively. But now that we're seeing them on the field, another win for Matt Arnold in the front office.

SPEAKER_04 40:51

The initial reaction, if you remember, was oh no, what are we gonna do now that Caleb Durbin is gone? And Caleb Durbin was great last year, and he was looking like he was gonna be the third baseman for the Brewers for a number of years. But um, I thought Caleb Durbin was actually probably played his best baseball last year in Milwaukee. And and this is exactly what I just was talking about that it's a it's an easy, easier place to play than Boston for sure. It's still the big league, so you still have to perform. There's a lot of pressure on you, but Caleb Durbin really settled in last year. And so now that the Brewers understood like this is this is where we're gonna sell him at his peak, and we're gonna go ahead and get a couple of of guys that are gonna help us on the in the pitching department. And you know, I don't know if the Brewers, I don't know if we'd be talking about this team with uh such optimism right now if they didn't have both those guys, uh Harrison and and um and Droan. Yeah, I don't know because Drone offers you uh a great left-handed arm out of the pen right now, but Mike, he could start and be really, really good.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

I mean, and when you talk to three of those pitchers that you acquired in those two sh could or maybe will be in the rotation. You're talking about Sprout, Drone, and Harrison.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

100%, and and better than just uh you know, innings eaters at the back end of your rotation. I mean, these guys could be. I think drone's probably his his pri his ceiling is probably like a mid-rotation starter, which is super valuable, super, super valuable. Yeah, so but the other two guys, those are top-end type of arms. And and Kyle Harrison's Kyle Harrison right now has got a 177 ERA and and is uh top uh is seventh in all of baseball. I don't think he qualifies, but seventh in all of baseball and ERA among starting pitchers. I mean, just absolutely remarkable. Um, and so now all of a sudden you're thinking, okay, you have Miz and in and Kyle Harrison as your one-two punch in a potential playoff series. And I know it's just past the midpoint in May, but I'm yes, I'm thinking about their one-two punch in the playoffs. Yeah, because this team, no team has done more winning than the Milwaukee Brewers since last May. I mean, they won 97 games last year, so since last year, but when you're talking about May, I think it was May 23rd last year when they turned it on and they ended up from that point on 40 games over 500. Now, if you look back to that time, they're about 50 games over 500. Are you kidding me? There's no hotter team. This team is gonna keep rolling a little bit tougher division, a little bit tougher league in the national league, just in general. So it's gonna be it's not gonna be as easy. I mean, you're not probably not gonna see a uh 14-game winning streak this year, but maybe you never know. This team never this team hasn't surprised. I mean, they they keep surprising you, but then you realize, okay, that makes sense. This team's day off today.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

Uh, and then Dodgers Cardinals in. Uh, by the way, Zach says, and and this is a good point. And we we've talked about this from time to time. Good teams know when to get off players, good front offices. Uh, you know, Ron Wolf said it's uh always said it's better a year too early than a year too late, and the Burrs have done. That uh we all love Willie Adamas, but Willie Adonis has not been the same guy. Durbin, I think, would have been much better staying in Milwaukee. I don't think he would have struggled away. That goes to your point about some cities are tougher to play in, and Boston is one of those. Um, if you watch the docs on what Boston Red Sox players go through, they go, it's different and not in a comfortable, good way. Right. Um, but the Brewers have done a really good job of getting off players, uh, you know, now as opposed to too late. Uh, you know, Devin Williams is one of those. Josh Hader has had a great career after he left Milwaukee. That one uh will always be looked at with a discerning eye. But the rest of them seem to have been the right time to move off of a player.

SPEAKER_04 44:47

You're not gonna be 100% in any of these moves, and that's that's where Matt Arnold and Matt Clentak and the rest of the front office, they do just a great job, Matt Klein. They do a great job of understanding, like we're not gonna have a hit rate of 100, but we're gonna be so meticulous with how we make our decisions, and they might not be popular, but we're gonna keep shooting our shot. And they're doing a great job of that. And um, and they're doing a great job. Here's the other thing they do a great job of communicating to the media and in terms of what they're thinking, and they're being honest about their thinking with some of these moves, and I think that gives them he's already got a longer leash, is that if that's what you can call it, or just we're we're forgetting, we are very forgiving with maybe some of his misses, which haven't been very many, because he's been right so often, and and also because he's been so honest with with the media and and with um what they're thinking with certain moves and stuff like that. So um just brilliant the way that they've constructed this thing, smallest market in all of baseball, smallest TV market, and they are absolutely brilliant with how they're constructing this roster, and um not only with the X's and O's, not only with the OPSs and with all the the stats, but also with the clubhouse culture. If you're not a Brewers type of player, Pat Murphy won't want you, and they'll they're gonna try and move you. That's you can you can bet on that. So that's also a factor in this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 46:17

You know, I only had one criticism in in the series, and and I'm watching it on my Brewers MLB app while I'm out here in Arizona. Uh, a little too much boy band talk um over the last couple of nights with you with you and Lev, huh?

SPEAKER_04 46:33

Yeah, you know, yeah, we like to have some fun. Sometimes they don't always land for sure. New kids on the block conversation might have been too much. At least we didn't start getting into the songs. Uh, I think Levering was actually busted out in a couple of those boy bands.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, no kidding. Um, so you you're from Racine, uh, a lot of Cubs fans down there. Do you have uh some Cub fan friends? And do you take advantage of these opportunities to let them know a little bit?

SPEAKER_04 47:01

I do have Cub fan friends, they are completely silent right now. And I'm not gonna poke the bear. I'm not gonna do it. You know what? My silence is actually you know the pride that I take in in the Brewers um beating them because I know they're quiet on their end and they got their tail between their legs.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Yeah, and they're a good team. All right. So I don't want to spend a whole lot of time talking about hey, the Cubs are, but the Cubs are pretty good. They've got they've had a bunch of pitching injuries. You know, I we got our hands raised uh in on the injury front too. Cubs are a good team in a tough run right now, and that's the way baseball works. You've got to be able to resolve through these roller coaster elements of a season, and right now they're in that dip. And the the true test there will be how do they manage, how do they move on from this? And the Brewers will be, you know, trying to keep it steady, and then they got the Dodgers and the Cardinals coming in.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Well, here's the difference between Jed Hoyer and Matt Arnold. Jed Hoyer, the GM of the of the Cubs, good GM, smart, yes, all that constructs a good solid roster. But his big his big move was what he acquired Edward Cabrera, right? Yeah, um, I don't know if Matt Arnold and company is gonna go ahead and want to acquire him. Like I'm just watching him pitch, I'm watching his demeanor out on the mound.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Isn't there?

SPEAKER_04 48:26

Yeah, he's not a brewers guy, that's for sure, right? I mean, he's just kind of going, he looks like he's going through the motions, had a little blister on his finger. Um, you know, might might be more serious than we're letting on to, but just his his mount presence, his demeanor, and we're on the other side, you're getting Kyle Harrison, who's got that swagger who is taking it to you every single pitch. I know we had a great game, but still that's his demeanor, even when he's getting his butt kicked. So that's the difference. That's those little things, those little subtle things between the two. And yeah, um, they're a good team. Um, they've got some injuries, right? So Kate Horton was supposed to be a guy, he blew out his his elbow. But again, the Brewers, this is unfair to say because the the just because the Brewers have created a roster here where they and I'm knocking on wood, it's almost they've gotten they've got so much starting pitching depth that you know is it bulletproof almost there. How many guys that they have that can start? I mean, right now they're rolling with with four guys, if you include gas or five in their rotation that have less than a year of service time under their belts, um, or less than two years, I should say. So yeah, um just incredible. And they got more guys coming, some Woodruff's coming back soon and Priester. Yeah, those two guys almost feel like are they the odd man in this rotation? I mean, how spoiled are you?

SPEAKER_01 49:50

I'm kidding. So uh let me finish with this because there are brewer fans that are asking. So this is it's not meant to be a negative, but but the fans are asking about this. At what point um do you bring up Jet or what's the situation with Cooper Pratt as it relates to Louis uh to Louis Renifo? Um, you know, the decision because he hasn't done what you hoped he would do as a stopgap and a placeholder for Pratt or Jet or somebody to come up next year. So, how does that front office, this brilliant front office, manage and work through that scenario in the next month or so?

SPEAKER_04 50:33

That would be a tough call. So uh Jet Williams and Cooper Pratt are ready. It seems like they're ready the way that they're swinging the bat. Cooper Pratt's a major leaguer at this point. Uh signed a deal. He's on the 40-man roster, signed a $50 million deal. He's actually a major league player getting ready in triple A with that bat. So that's only a matter of time. Now, does he take the place of Joey Ortiz? I'm guessing, I'm guessing yes. Um now, what about Jack Williams? He's also ready. Uh, does he take the place of Luis Rengifo and David Hamilton over at third base? I would also say yes to that. What do they do with Luis Rengifo? He signed a one-year, $3.5 million deal. This is something that the Brewers don't do. Yeah, Son Offensive doesn't do it, Mark Antanasio doesn't do it, they don't they don't eat that kind of money. So I'm not sure. I don't think they've been in this situation, Mike, where a guy, I mean, you look at I I guess you look at uh Reese Hoskins last year was making a $12.5 million dollars, and they he was probably a release at some point, but um they kept him on the roster, right? So uh I I don't know what they're gonna do with Ren Hifo, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

They're not in this situation very often. It is money spent. I mean, it's already spent, right? So if you got money spent and say, okay, we're it with the money's already out, so are we gonna get production from him or Jet Williams? Uh so and we'll and we'll see. And that might be a trade structure with somebody of which you take on the the bulk of his money, even though you've sent him away, you're gonna still pay him 75% of the dollars due because nobody's gonna take on that contract with what he hasn't done.

SPEAKER_04 52:15

And let me say this what you do see in those situations, a good point. That all right, let's just say hypothetical, okay. We made a mistake here again, not very many mistakes that Matt Mar Matt Arnold has made. So we made a mistake, three and a half million bucks. Instead of just cutting him loose, which you do see teams do that and just eating the contract. What you can do, like you said, a small deal where you take on the majority, and it it'll be listed as Luis Ranjifo and cash. It's probably three point, you know, he's making three and a half, three point four nine nine nine million, and then you're just you're you're you're uh you're taking on that whole thing, and the other team's paying one dollar of that contract. That happens, okay. Um, so you're you're sending them away and cash, and then you get a small prospect back just for the optics of it. So that could happen for sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Yeah. Uh one other note, I just want to uh bring in uh Joe John's uh mention here, and I don't agree with this. I would not move Joey Ortiz to third base, I don't think it solves your issue. Um so if I brought Cooper Pratt up, then Joey Ortiz is my fifth infielder, right?

SPEAKER_04 53:29

He's either you your utility infielder or they could send him down, which I wouldn't. They could send him down to to get more at bats and figure out some things hitting-wise. I wouldn't do that because he's so valuable with the glove late in the game, yeah, where he could bounce around to you know third base, give Cooper Pratt a day off at short. I think we're seeing that Joey Ortiz's glove certainly plays. And yeah, and and we've seen in no, you know, I'm not trying to knock on David Hamilton, it's just it's not close defensively when David Hamilton's at short, it's really not close. Yeah, uh, and it hurts your hurts your pitching staff a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

And and Ren Hifo is also not a plus defender. Uh, I know they they're hoping he is, but you know, that error that the Cubs called a hit two nights ago at third base. I left still on that. Levering was still on that last night, and he's right. You can't call that a base hit. That is an error 100% of the time. The only place that's not an error is at fantasy camp where there are no errors.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

It hurts you a hundred percent. So anyone listening, get the fantasy camp because that's gonna be a hit for you at camp as well. So, but and then and then that hurts, and this is kind of trivial, but you know, players think about this. That hurts Aaron Ashby's ERA, you know. So that's two earned runs on his ERA that shouldn't be there. So uh players think about that.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

Yeah. Hey Vinny, I could do this for two hours, but we're almost through the hour. You you know, I love these conversations. We get a little weedy at times in there, but I I think our baseball fans love that, getting a little nerdy on some of the stuff without going overboard, but talking about these trades and what the Brewers have been able to do and why Kyle Harrison gets so many swings and misses. And last night, by the way, last note here last night was a perfect night for Kyle Harrison to pitch at Wrigley because the wind's blowing in. He had a bunch of fly balls. Some of those fly balls last night that he was pitching to would have certainly been home runs and well up the bleachers the night before, but he didn't pitch the night before. He pitched last night.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Yeah, that was part of his game plan. And and that's why he was so aggressive in the zone for sure. If the wind was blowing out, he would have probably pitched a little bit differently in certain situations. Yeah, but he used the wind to his advantage, and that's super smart. And that's and good on on William, too, to keep him in the zone and and understand, hey, let's just keep attacking because these fly balls are going nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Vinny, uh, enjoy the rest of the day. And are you working this weekend in the Dodgers or the Cardinals series? What's what's your role?

SPEAKER_04 56:07

I'm I'm in the booth for the Cardinals. I'm I'm off for the Dodgers here, but I'll be paying attention. It's gonna be a great series against the Dodgers.

SPEAKER_01 56:12

Enjoy your weekend. Always enjoy the visits. Thank you. Yeah, anytime, Mike. Talk Vinny Ricino. Every Thursday on the show, almost every Thursday. Sometimes we maneuver around, depending on the brewer's schedule and his time here, brought to you by Pottawatomi Sports Sportsbook and Casino Bet above the rest. Uh, all right. So uh well, personal side here, Zach wants to know did the golf clubs make the trip? No, Zach, they didn't. Yeah, it's well it's a wedding week. We we got to what you know what we are doing? Uh my son-in-law is uh high school baseball coach here. So his uh little bachelor Saturday, because the wedding is on Sunday, is we're going to his high school and playing a little home run derby. Now, the thing about home run derby is well, ain't no home runs coming off of my bat. I asked him if we were doing this from home plate, you know, because if I was in the home run derby, you'd have to move home plate to close to second base or at least the cutout of the infield grass. But he said, no, we're we're hitting from home plate. I said, well, uh home run derby's uh the wrong name for it. Maybe you'll hit a few, but ain't happening here. But we are. We're we're going to a ballpark uh tomorrow. But no, no golf clubs on this trip. I will do that again. And Zach, the next time, and when I bring the golf clubs, I'll be playing with your dad at some point out here. Um, which is that would bring me great joy. So uh and and Zach, um I we haven't played golf together, I don't think. Zach's a player, played at Marquette. Um good dude. And by the way, I'm doing his um, I don't know if Zach, if you'll be there, but I'm doing the balance and believe outing at Blackhawk with Derek Schnarr coming up next month. So uh very much looking forward to that. Hey, we're out. That went so fast. It's it's amazing how much joy somebody else's misery can bring you in sports. And and the Cubs are miserable right now. They won't be because I think they're good. But when the brewers put them in misery for three days, that is sports joy. Nirvana. Love it. Tomorrow we're gonna do this. I'll be in a different location. We're gonna be uh at our uh wedding Airbnb that we've rented, uh house that uh that all the family will be at. So I'll probably move this out of doors tomorrow. And I have no idea who the guests are. They might be my daughter Amanda and and it might be my grandkids. Um I don't know, who whoever it is, uh tomorrow will be uh a different deal. Mark Benson wants to throw. We'll do this on the way out the door, Mark. So fly the L. Yes, sir. All right, big thank you to all of our sponsors, onecommunity.bank. That's the website you go to for one community bank, onecommunity.bank. That's where you go on that front. From M3 Insurance, go to m3ins.com. That's m3ins.com. Neuroscience group, great people. They do fantastic work. If you've had a concussion or a brain injury or dealing with something there, go to neurosciencegroup.com. That's where you go to find your answers. Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino, bet above the rest. They bring you Vinny Rettino on Thursdays on the program. And Habish, Habish and Rotier. We're out. We'll do it again tomorrow. Brewers will not lose or win between now and then. It's an off day. Enjoy what you have right now, leading the division by a game and a half. We'll talk to you tomorrow. It is I love Mondays. And thanks for tuning in to be part of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

I love Mondays with Mike Helen.