I Love Mondays-Ep65, June 1, 2026

The Brewers are rolling into the month of June...so what are you worried about? Packers into a 2nd week of OTA workouts, what does Pete Dougherty of PackersNews.com think is their biggest weakness some 100-days or so from the season opening game?

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Empowered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Hey, I love Mondays. And this is the uh this is the one day of the week that the show name actually applies. So welcome into the Monday edition of I Love Mondays. I'm your host, Mike Heller. I want to tell you a couple of things that have happened over the weekend that some of you might find uh fun or uh worth tuning into. Yesterday I started uh Brew Daily with Heller. It is uh my reaction to each Brewer's game uh after it goes final. So it's not an immediate, hey, tune in after the final out. There are other people that do that and go there. Um sometime within, let's say 40 to 45 minutes, maybe an hour after the game, depending on uh on where my circumstances are. I will post a uh seven-minute video. I'll do it live for some. Others will just see it uh later as a download. Uh, reaction, player of the game, play of the game and game, things that need improvement, uh, and where they stay. And we'll do that every day. Uh, had had a great response yesterday as we did it. Uh, had uh well over a thousand views on that on uh on X and some on YouTube. Uh, but I'm looking forward to doing it uh because I I love getting a little bit in the weeds, and and I'll do it as we uh I think we'll do it, as we uh get into badger football and packer football to do the same thing. Maybe not seven minutes, uh you know, might be a little longer there, but we'll we'll see. But I I think it's important. I think it's fun to do that. I enjoy doing it. So that uh, and you can see it here. You can see it on on X. If you're following there, you can see it on uh my YouTube channel. So that is YouTube.com slash at Hellerpods. So uh if you're finding this, you'll find that. So I'm excited about that. Welcome in. By the way, outside my window, it is a hub of activity. So we we bought a house six years ago, um, right across from Cherokee Golf Club on Madison's north side. Well, since then that changed over to TPC, Wisconsin. And this week, and in fact, on Thursday and Friday, I'll do my show, Weather Permitting, uh, outside across the street at TPC for the American Family Insurance Championship, which is a people still refer to it as the uh PGA senior tour. It's called the Champions Tour, but you have to be 50 years or older to be on it. They'll have uh their annual um American Family Uh Insurance Championship, AMP FAM Championship, easier to go that route, hosted by Steve Stricker. That will be a Friday, Saturday, Sunday tournament. But it is a hub of activity of all of the things and the grain stands and everything else that has been set up to host this event. It is it's really fun. Last year we actually rented out our house to Tournament Ops. So we were in and out during the run of the tournament. This year we're here, uh, and it is really cool to watch all of the uh the goings on. So if you occasionally see me do this, that just means some big truck or players or John Daly went by, something like that. Uh no Tiger Woods is here, but it's gonna happen at some point. Uh let me uh go through the ritual here. James says, good Monday morning, Mike. Thank you, James, and same to you. Uh Mike and Merrill says, good morning, all with a sunshine there. Uh, Eric from the Prairie, a good morning. My guy Zach says, Happy Monday, Mike, and right back at you. And then uh Mark says, good morning. All back from a uh weekend with Luther College friends camping at Pulpit Rock Campground. I have no idea where that is, but I'm sure it was awesome. Um a couple of uh things to catch up on from the weekend. The Milwaukee Panthers have been one of the surprises, one of the great storylines in the NCAA regional tournament. They're playing in the Auburn Regional, and today at four o'clock, they'll play Auburn. You know, winner goes on, loser goes home game. Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Milwaukee lost to Auburn last night, 8-1. So Auburn, the fourth-ranked team in the country and the number one seed in the region, has to beat Milwaukee twice. So last night it was a late night first pitch after 10 o'clock last night. And then the winner this afternoon in a game in which the first pitch is four o'clock, the winner will go on to a super regional and meet Ole Miss in a best of three end of the week. So Milwaukee very much is surprised. And Pat Murphy talked about it yesterday in his Brewers pregame meeting when Todd Rosiak brought it up, and Rosiak will join us Wednesday on the show. Uh, Todd brought up about UW Milwaukee and he said, Oh, what a great, great, great story. Their tough part happens now, which meant yesterday, because he goes, they'll be depleted in pitching. They don't have the depth of pitching that an Auburn is going to have. Um, so it's gonna be hard for them, but what a great story to be where they are. And they do, they have an opportunity later this afternoon. If they find offense and they can get some outs, they have a chance to do something nobody thought was possible, and that's advance to the uh super regional and meet all miss. Uh unlikely, but they put themselves in position to be able to do that, which harkens back to what you get in the NCAA men's basketball tournament. We don't follow the baseball tournament as much. I shouldn't say we, um, some of you do. But it it is essentially because most people don't even understand that Milwaukee is a Division I college baseball team because the University of Wisconsin doesn't have baseball. Uh it was they it went away in '91-ish. The storyline there for me, and I'm a baseball guy, is that so many people have been front and center saying, Well, you got to get baseball back, you got to get baseball back, you got to get baseball back. When it went away, it it is just so hard to find a pathway to bringing it back. And these are my arguments. You could find some donors that will fund it initially, but it is a significant money loser. Like hard to cut the sport. But when they did, when Pat Richter, baseball guy, cut the sport in the early 90s, it was out of budgetary concerns at the time. They were in tough shape. That was after the Don Morton era and before money began to roll in with Barry Alvarez. Keep in mind they won just a couple of games in their first two years. So they were huge budget shortfalls, and Title IX was part of that. So it wasn't the only sport dropped. Baseball had company in being dropped. The issue with adding it is not initial funding, but the year-to-year funding. I mean, they lose the the expenditure on running out of baseball team in the upper Midwest, upper Midwest is huge. You you have no revenue produced, no revenue produced. And you got to play so many of your games away, which includes travel. And it's not a small roster. So I'm not saying that it's not worthy of bringing back. I just don't see an avenue in this age of college athletics where you're going to spend facility cost and then the handover fist negative financial drain of adding in a baseball program. That being said, Milwaukee is the only Division I baseball program in the state, and they got a shop this afternoon. Brewer's got another win. So here's one of the questions. And by the way, Pete Doherty will be our guest. He'll join us uh on the program in about 11 minutes or so. And the Packers continuing OTAs. And my question to Pete is what is the weakest link for the Green Bay Packers? And it might go back to last week's story on Josh Jacobs. It might be the running game. It wouldn't be if Josh Jacobs is in, but now there's some significant question marks there. It's a legal process that is playing itself out. We're not going to tackle the legal angle here, not very often at least. I'm ill-equipped, and I also want to talk sports. How Josh Jacobs' legal situation affects the team will be discussed. So the the concept there is is that the weakest link in Green Bay as they uh they get ready with OTAs and go through this process and then begin training camp the end of next month. Packers training camp the end of next month. And in fact, just as a bell mark, today is 100 days until the NFL season's regular season begins. 100 days. Doesn't take long. It is the longest off season in all of sports, but as you begin to tick away the days, you know that it goes in a hurry. Mike Lucas used to do this thing, uh, which I loved and hated at the same time. Uh he would, you know, do he would start now. What he would have started last week when it was 100 days until badger football, and write a quick note every day. And then to me, it would be like the countdown until summer is over. I love football, but I also enjoy summer and I don't want it to come to an end. That was always kind of a love-hate with that. Um, so let's uh spend a couple of minutes on the Brewers before we get into Pete Doherty. So uh 35 and 21. They just finished the month of May by going 19-7 uh in the month of May, which is fantastic. They'll host the San Francisco Giants and William Adnomis. They're not a very good team. Uh, they don't score a lot of runs. They're 23 and 36. They'll host them the next four days, three night games and a day game. It's a four-game set, six forties and then an afternoon game on Thursday. And Miz won't pitch in this series. He'll they'll hold him. He'll pitch at Colorado on Friday. They actually slid Kyle uh Harrison back a day. Normally he would follow Ms, but they're gonna give a uh a start, just a second uh start in his Brewers career to Shane Drone uh to tonight in uh in the game against San Francisco. The Brewers are currently number three in the MLB.com power rankings that came out today. Let me just read what they had to say about this Brewers team in MLB.com's power rankings. Uh, even with all the good teams in the NL Central, the Brewers have a 58% odds to win the NL Central. And here's your reminder and people do seemingly legitimately forget this that if the Brewers win the division this year, they'll do so for the fourth consecutive year and for the fifth time in the last six seasons. So what was great yesterday was was Miz. So Miz goes seven full yesterday. His first 20 pitches of the game were all fastballs, all over 100 miles an hour. 24 of his first 26 pitches were over 100, and the two that weren't were breaking balls. So eighth consecutive game with eight or more K's, that's a franchise record. 88 pitches, which is a great economical run through a game in seven innings pitched, 88 pitches, three hits, no runs, lowers his ERA to 165, and it was 0.23 in the month of May. Now, uh Rodriguez from Philadelphia will likely win pitcher of the month. He had one fewer start, but only a two-thirds of an inning fewer innings pitched. He allowed no earned runs. So it's uh a little bit of a hog wrestle as to who wins it, but I would think that Rodriguez would. The monthly honors, they matter, I suppose. We know what you're doing with Miz. And for me, and I talked about this yesterday on uh on Brood Daily, which you you'll get tonight. I think I'm going to the ballpark tonight, but you'll get tonight after the game, is that with Miz and what you're getting now from Harrison, and if you can get Woodruff back, but that's an if. Your setup for playoff baseball, I know it's June 1st, so why am I talking playoffs? But what we saw yesterday and what I hope we'll see tomorrow uh with Miz and Harrison is how you can win in the postseason. If those guys give you six plus and hold the opposition to one or two runs or less, you've got a bullpen. You know, you hope you get um healthier there on the back end, but if you get your McGill or McGill Yuribe in the eighth, ninth, if you could go six innings with your starter and then went Ashby Yuribe McGill, lights out. That is your playoff winning equation. You know, that's that's the math equation. That's the recipe to win in the playoffs. Get a good start from your starter because this team isn't gonna score in the postseason. They're not piecing together, you know, two straight singles and then a bunt and then two more against postseason pitching. You gotta hit the occasional home run. But if you're giving up a little, you can live with it if your pitching does what the brewers' pitching has done. And I get it, it's June 1st. But it's what I like about who they are right now. So I asked this question, um, and I'll ask it to you now on the podcast, and that is the Brewers are giving you nothing to worry about. So, what are you what are you worried about? Rephrase that. Their record gives you nothing to worry about. They're 35 and 21. That's on pace for 101 wins. So the simple question is on pace for 101 wins, what are you worried about? And I think I know the answer. And I have the same worry. It's about what they're gonna do at third base. And here's the dilemma for the trade deadline: you've got an embarrassment of riches in your minor league system. So you can use some of that to go get a third base rental, and I don't know who that is. Last year it would have been Ryan McMahon, it would have been A. Eugenio Suarez. Suarez did almost nothing when he went to Seattle, so there is a bit of a risk, and I know that many of you are saying, and I would agree with you, that that almost nothing is better than Luis Rengifo right now, and it is better, you know it's better than your current major league options. So here's here's a question I love Joey Ortiz, I love his defense, truly, I do. Would you make a move and go ahead in rather than a trade, go ahead and in four weeks, if he's if he's healthy and doing okay, bring up Cooper Pratt to play shortstop. He is every bit the defender that Joey Ortiz is, and defense is the same in AAA as it is in major league baseball. Your defensive efficiency, how good you are there, translates. There's no change when you go to the big leagues defensively. Triple A pitching is not major league pitching. That's the issue. But if Cooper Pratt doesn't hit it, shortstop. You've already got a shortstop that doesn't hit. The problem is if you slide or tease the third, he doesn't then you got a shortstop and a third baseman that don't hit. Hmm. Seems like what you got now. You're better defensively because third base has occasionally been a problem defensively. But how do you manage that? If you make a trade, I'm fine with sending uh a prospect away, but that third baseman is, I mean, it would be 100% a rental. Because a year from now, we'll be talking about uh entering his third month of play, Cooper Pratt, at shortstop, and maybe my day at third. And three years from now, if you're playing baseball next year, that's a big if too. If you're playing baseball next year, and and then add this into the concept is that Bryce Gerang's not staying in Milwaukee after the two more years of club control, and I think it's two. Check me on that. It might be, he might have three years left in Milwaukee. If we count this year, um, then I think it's next in the year after. I'll double check that or somebody can check me on it. He's not your second baseman of the future, and that's the part of the uh of Major League Baseball's operating structure financially, uh, that Milwaukee and markets like Milwaukee kind of get screwed in. Uh Bryce Tarang, they maybe had an option to do that a year ago when they didn't, and I don't know what level the conversations were at. Now I I think if Bryce continues to progress, right now he's not hitting the ball at all in the oh by the way department, but I think that's a short-lived uh equation. Um they'll they'll be in a position where uh Made, Pina, and Cooper Pratt are their infield in some way, shape, or form. Chet Williams might be part of that equation too. They they've got an embarrassment. It is a rare circumstance that a small market team like Milwaukee is as good as they are right now at the major league level and as stocked and loaded as they are at the minor league level. It simply does just doesn't happen very often. They're very, very good uh in their entire system. So they're well set up to be very good down the road. Couple of notes before I thank our sponsors and then bring in Pete Doherty, who is uh waiting backstage. Zach says the only thing I can think is unlucky injuries uh or third base. Things to be worried about. Yes, no doubt. You know, the Brewers got hot when Jackson Churio and Andrew Vaughn came back, and then Yellich as well. So those three guys, significant uh in what they do. Garrett Mitchell has been fantastic. Sal Freelings still waiting uh on him to show up. Tarang is in a mini slump right now, but Contreras has been good all year, and Jake Bowers has been fantastic, and he was again yesterday. And uh then we get this in from Darren. That's why we need to see if Pratt or Jet can play now. I don't know if you need to see if they can play now. I I don't know that that's true. Gives them two months before the deadline to see what and if we you need something, he's seen enough of Renhifo to say goodbye. And I get that. That's if you're gonna be worried, that's the type of stuff that worries you. Um, and then uh guys checking me, so thank you. I believe that Tarang is under ARB 234 uh until unrestricted free agent in 30. So, yeah, you in theory, you've got Tarangue for a while um under club control, but I don't think he's gonna be here after that club control. And uh Brock Wilken is a great question. My guess is he might be the guy that they end up trading because Andrew Fisher is uh killing it at single A. He was great in the world baseball classic. He might flip sides of the infield, he might end up being a first baseman. All those things, front office stuff, uh, they'll work their way through these dilemmas and figure them out. Let me thank our sponsors before I bring in Pete Doherty. We are presented by One Community Bank and uh our friends at One Community Bank as a significant sponsor here. We appreciate our partnership. And if you're a first-time homebuyer looking to purchase or build a new home or ready to refinance your existing mortgage, one community bank has a mortgage solution that will fit your needs. Visit the website onecommunity.bank or one of the locations to experience Feel Good Banking. One Community Bank is a member FDIC and an equal housing lender. We're also presented by M3 Insurance. Uh, good folks. I got to spend time with them on Friday. M3's commitment to small business runs deep. They are passionate about helping small businesses grow and stay strong by reducing the friction that comes with protecting operations and their people. Go to M3INS.com. We are also presented by the Neuroscience Group. From car accidents to work injuries to sports related concussions, their team provides one. Of the most comprehensive concussion programs in the state with specialized care to design and help you recover and return to life safely. Neuroscience Group, Wisconsin's leader in concussion care. Go to Neuroscience Group.com. And we're also presented by Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino. You know, it's not all just betting, although that's what they're known for at Pottawatomi and the hotel. There's great food all day, all night long, never ends with a bunch of new item menus on the item. Desserts highlighted by the MVP Turtle Sunday. Why did I go there first? That's just where my brain goes is to dessert first. Must be 21 to enter the casino. And also presented by Habish, Habish and Rotier. 13 locations to ensure a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury on your life, personally committed to your recovery. I appreciate all of our sponsors and our partners. Hope you join uh in me in supporting what they do in the mix. Let's bring in Pete Doherty. The OTAs are back in play. Pete Doherty of the Green Bay Press Gazette. I don't know. Is that still the way I introduce you, Pete? Things change so often in our industries that I think that's where I start, but I don't know. Am I right?

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Yeah, I mean, that's where I, you know, that's what I always use, you know. Like when I call people, I say, if I'm calling sources, I say, you know, Pete Doherty from the Green Bay Press Gazette. Um, PackersNews.com, um, Canut, Wisconsin, I'll answer to any of them.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, you will. Uh, hey, I I saw your buddy Dan Kelly out here last week, and he says you guys are golfing soon. And and I'll tell you this, just as a personal aside, he's been working on his game. So I don't know if he tries to get in your pocket that way or how that works, but I know you got a game coming up with him. So I hope you're playing the golf course a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

There's never money at stake when we play, we're we're not nearly we know we're not good enough to be playing for money.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, and well, he's playing for pride then, um, and been working at it a little bit. Well, uh, you know, but he's got a pro am. He's you know involved in the championship. So he'll be out here with somebody important later this week and then with you guys whenever that when that's going on. Uh, we didn't get a chance to visit last week, so let me ask you about your reaction on the Josh Jacobs story. And the last thing that any of us want to do is talk is talk about the legalities um and cover court cases. But uh I don't have we learned anything since the uh original story came out um early last week.

SPEAKER_03 24:33

Not not that I know of. Um, you know, there was that uh uh an ambulance showed up at his place, right? We we know that, um, and a couple neighbors called in, and that's about it. And you know, you're right. I it's just impossible to comment on any of this stuff, um, just because we don't, there's too much we don't know, and you know, the these legal issues, it's uh you know what he's accused of is obviously it's just awful, um, but he maintains you know vehement uh innocence, so it's just really hard to say anything worth hearing as far as I all that stuff goes.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yeah, is there any timing that we're aware of on the calendar when the the next element might come into play there and we'll get some clarification?

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Not that I know of. Our new side people work on this, but I I have no idea. I think these things sometimes, you know, it could be later today, sure, could be several days, who knows?

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Well, when we when you talk about the Packers and OTAs, um I don't know that there's ever anything that that that truly happens there, but let's look a little big picture stuff. What's for for fans who like to worry and for columnists who like to to write about what a weakness might be, what's the weakest link of the Packers as we know their roster construction today? What should fans be worried about? What are the Packers worried about?

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Well, if there's if it ends up that they don't have Josh Jacobs this year, then it's running back, right? You know. Um I'd be worried if I were them about depth on the O line. Um, and I'd be concerned about I'd still be I'd be a little concerned about nose tackle, maybe less so that than whether I just don't know if they're gonna have enough rush even with Micah Parsons. That's you know, it depends on development of a few guys, and um I kind of feel like they're a little light there still. If you want to be a really good have a really good rush, that they're a little light there still, but maybe they're gonna incorporate Campbell more or um um Cooper into that more this season.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah. Well, and then so many of us wonder, and and and so do you, about certain players that may step up. Like Morgan is a wide receiver in year two. He he needs to be a different guy than he was in year one. When you think of Lucas Van Ness and what he brings to the table, um, he needs to make that next step. Uh are those the guys you think of? Hey, they're Morgan, it's a little early, it's just year two, but Lucas Van Ness is a significant secondary piece on the defensive line.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Yeah, I think you mean Golden.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Is that uh Yeah, Matthew Golden, why I said Golden Matthew Golden.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Um, yeah, and the thing is, you know, chances are put players improve at different rates, and you know, you never know. Uh Van Es could have a really nice jump still left in him, but you know, he's three full years in, this will be four. He's more likely closer to what he's eventually going to top out at. Whereas Golden, um, I think there's a lot of talent there and a lot of so he could, you know, that he could be. I'm not saying he will, but he could make a really nice jump this year, and he could be a lot more consistently the guy that we saw against Chicago in the playoffs than that we would we saw regular season.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Pete, when I I was doing the uh a little work um leading into one of the shows last week uh uh about what Jordan Love has done in his first couple of years now, three years as a starter. His numbers are eerily similar to Aaron Rodgers in the first three years. From a completion percentage standpoint, Rodgers was 64-2, Love is 63-7, so their their completion percentage almost the same. Yards per game are different by about 35 yards, but that favors Rogers, and that was a function of how they ran in offense, too. McCarthy's offense predicated predicated on the throw game, and you know, Matt LaFleur really likes to run the ball when they can. Touchdowns to interceptions are nearly identical. Rogers was 58 and 20, and Love is 57 and 22. I don't think that there is the same upside for Jordan Love as far as a first ballot Hall of Fame career, but so many of these numbers are eerily similar. How would you gauge what you've seen from Love in three years as a starter?

SPEAKER_03 29:14

I think he's a really talented guy. I think there's room for for that to, you know, for his performance to keep going up. Um, so if I were the Packers, I'd feel you know pretty good about him. Um by this point in Rogers' career, you know, they won the Super Bowl that year. Yeah. And he was really good in that postseason. And that next year, you know, he was the best quarterback in the league the next uh the next season, right from the start. Um, and I don't think love that's not where love is from what I can see. Um but I think there's a still room for him to to get better, and it's just one of the most interesting conversations is trying to rank these quarterbacks in this division is just really, really tough because of the different stages they at they're at in their careers. And um, you know, you can make an argument for love being, I mean, you could you could make a valid argument for being first, and you could make it for him being third, you know.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

Yeah. Um, by the way, just to clarify, those total numbers I gave were the first two years, not the first three. So at the end of two years, Rogers was 58 and 20 touchdowns and interceptions, Jordan Love 57 and 22. That was two years into their deal. And then one of the more popular conversations, depending on where you are, uh, ends up being well, how does Caleb Williams measure into this? So this is where I've fallen on that, Pete. I've said if I if I had to pick a quarterback that you had to build around for the next five years, I'd take Caleb Williams in Chicago over Jordan Love in Green Bay, mainly because of the significant upside. I think there's a higher ceiling there. But if I had to win this year, right now, I'd take Jordan Love because I think I can trust the consistency of him. Would we fall into a similar category? Where do you sit there?

SPEAKER_03 31:09

Yeah, I you know, I had to um for um for work, you know, we get asked a question each week and we have to answer it, you know, publicly uh for their our website, and we were asked to rank the quarterbacks, and I went Williams Love um, you know, one and two. Um and love played better most of the time, yeah. But Williams had a Jaden Daniels year where when he had to win, he won. You know, fourth quarter when he had to make the play. So the the huge question with him is you know, there I see arguments where he's gonna revert to the mean and you can't keep pulling out these close games, but the other way could go true, and he could get more consistent in quarters one through three and not need so many heroics in the fourth quarter. Um, and so that they'll be they'll have a better record and and be better, you know, it's kind of analogous to in Matt LaFleur's year, first year, they won a lot of close games. And I remember all the analytics guys that they went 13 and three, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

And all the analytics guys were saying you can't win, it just doesn't carry over year to year. You come back to the mean. But what it didn't take into account was they were in their first year in LaFleur's system, he was a first year coach. So the next year they also went 13 and 3. You know, they they didn't revert to the mean because they got they were better in the system. Somewhat analogous thing, except that it's with Williams just getting more experienced, you know, they may not revert to the mean and they may even get better uh if he gets more consistent. If he's just gonna always be this kind of erratic guy, then it's gonna be uh uh you know real up and down show. But if he gets if he gets more consistent, um he could be a real problem.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah, it's uh and I think maybe we talked about this last time. If we did, I apologize for repeating, but I just love what the rivalry is right now because this this takes it back. And the Packers weren't good enough then, but it takes us back to me, probably you as well, to the force Greg Ditka years because they they genuinely uh there was a hatred that went kind of back and forth that manifested itself on game days. And right now, Ben Johnson has been very for Packers fans very unlikable. Uh and I think he and Matt LaFleur have a genuine distrust or disdain, they don't like one another, uh, which is great for the fan base and for columnists and talk guys, because when that rivalry is good and it's really good right now, uh, all of our lives are a little bit better.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

Yeah, it's uh uh Johnson's done everything he can to stoke that thing, yeah. And he hasn't given an inch, you know, and he hasn't uh tried to placate or you know, just ah, I was just talking. I mean, none of that stuff. Um, I think he uh it's probably got multiple motivations. One is to see, you know, if he can get under Matt LaFleur's skin and make him overly emotional on game days, you know, which could affect his decision making. Two, he wants to just set a mentality for his locker room and for the franchise. And so he's probably trying to accomplish both. I would guess the latter is is more important to him, but I'm sure he enjoys the former also. Um, so yeah, it makes it a lot more interesting and it makes it um it makes it fun. And I'll be really curious to see how LaFleur handles this because he's you know, I know if nobody else does, I'm gonna ask him, you know, what he makes of all, you know, what how he's gonna uh react to all of this, how he's gonna approach the team with it, and it'll probably be a lot different how he handles it behind closed doors than what he'll say publicly.

SPEAKER_00 34:51

A couple of non-uh, a couple of off-the-field questions. You you've been doing this for a while, and although Green Bay has never been subject to this directly, uh, thanks to Bob Harlan, but the political wranglings in Illinois uh and Indiana on the Bears Neck Stadium, we've kind of seen these things play out many times, and the politics behind the scenes usually at the 11th hour and 59th minute get worked out. I can't see them having their home stadium in Hammond, Indiana. Do you have a thought on how this will end?

SPEAKER_03 35:26

I don't, I mean, I I I suspect you're right, and that'll it'll end up, it'll be somewhere in the Chicago area, you know, in Illinois. Yeah, I mean it'd be a travesty if they ended up in Indiana. Um, not saying that's impossible, but that would be it would be a travesty. I uh I still think it's a shame the bears in my mind belong in downtown Chicago, yeah. Um just with the history and everything. And it just sounds like that's just there's it's just not viable, uh, not gonna happen. So that's you know, that's really unfortunate. Um but I have to I'll be really surprised if they don't end up somewhere in Illinois. I guess is is Arlington the one that's still the Arlington would be the one that's most in play.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

So that's probably where they'll where they'll end up being. But um man, this is uh yeah, these things do it. It you know, as Andrew Brandt always used to say, you worked for the Packers, uh deadlines for action.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

Yeah, and there will be lawyers, and certainly yes, it's the other one. There are there will be and there are. Uh and then last off the field conversation, and that is it's not a sport you cover, but major league baseball and their labor piece is very much at uh at the front end of the storyline when their uh CBA expires on December 1st or 2nd. Um, the National Football League has done a pretty good job of keeping labor peace for quite a long time. Uh, but you've covered these things when they had the the lockout and scab players and all those things. Uh what is your make of why the NFL has avoided these issues for such a long time now?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Uh the union in football is much weaker than in baseball. Um, the baseball union under Marvin Miller made great head roads. The big thing is I think if you just look at um, and I because I think you know you look at basketball too, and um the smaller the rosters, the more power the union has. And in football, you got it's not just 53, you got all these practice squad guys and you know, guys who are trying to make teams, so you you know, I think you can go to 90 per team. That's just um that's just too many players, and the interests of the players at the bottom are different than the interests of the players at the top. Um, and it's so much easier for the owners with only 32 of them to hold together. Uh, against thousands, you know how many thousand football players and and baseball. Um, it's just smaller rosters and the antitrust lawsuits they won. I think that's what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

So see if you follow my logic here, but this is uh the other thing I've always thought about as I've followed uh pro sports for my whole life, and that is that the most popular sport had the worst deals for the players. That's the NFL. Up until recently, they did not have guaranteed contracts. Players could be cut the day before a roster uh decision had to be made, and they forfeited that bonus that they had on opening day rosters and then signed three days later. It's just not very player-friendly. And in the most player-friendly leagues, fans began to think maybe rightfully so, that players didn't try as hard or didn't work as hard because the money was guaranteed, they couldn't be cut, they weren't gonna lose that dollar, so they lost the edge. And in football, that was now there's more guaranteed contracts, but in football, the edge better be there, or you'd be unemployed. Do you understand where I'm going there? Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

I do. I you know, I'm not sure. I just I don't know on that, Mike. That's you know, that's kind of reading into a little more into human psychology because there is a decent amount of guaranteed money now in football. Yeah, and I've heard the same things, you know, guys are getting when guys get their contract now, there's a lot of guys who flame out. Um, and but it's also a game where guys flame out fast anyway. Um so I think there is something to it, and it's probably dripped more into football um in the last you know 15 or 20 years as the contracts have gone up and the guarantees have gone up. Um, but it it does the you know the the the national TV contract and all the money that that brings in, you know, probably plays into it too for weakening the the NFL union. But it's just so tough for the NFL union to keep all these players uh, you know, to keep it to have them one mind because the owners can what the owners do is the they say they raise the minimum salary a lot, you know, a fair amount, a deal, a pretty good percentage amount. And that means a lot to 60 to 70 percent of the players, right? So that's how they pass that's that's how they pass those things.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Uh the last one, and that is is is there something to be learned from other than unless there was an injury? Uh, what is to be learned from these OTAs uh from a media or fan standpoint?

SPEAKER_03 40:31

You know, you try to pick up a little bit on playing rotations and stuff like that, but with all the guys sitting out, like you know at nose tackle, they it it's impossible to know who's their nose tackle is gonna be because Wyatt wasn't there. Yeah, so when Wyatt's there, their top three guys are him, probably Brooks and Hargrave. So who's gonna play nose in that? It's either gonna be Hargrave or Wyatt. Hargrave didn't take any nose snaps on last week on the OTA open to reporters. Um, but he I could see him, you know, playing some nose tackle this year. Um, Brinson, you know, he was the one who was taking the first reps, but he's not probably gonna be a starter. So I don't know that there's really a lot other, you know, there's just little things, you know. Does this guy catch the ball? Um, does this guy look like he knows what he's doing? Uh some people can tell more than I can. I really can't tell a lot, to be honest with you. And do you play playing rotations is about it?

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Right. Do you anticipate there will be player access this week?

SPEAKER_03 41:26

Uh yes, I'm pretty sure there will. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

Right. Good. Hey, Pete, I always uh appreciate taking time to join us. Uh, all the best to you, and I look forward to the next time we get to visit.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

Sounds great, Mike. Thanks for uh thanks for having me as always.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Thank you, Pete. That's Pete Doherty, Green Bay Press at PackersNews.com. Uh, kind enough to join me. He's so I was bringing up all the front and a little behind the scenes, a little personal side of this. Dan Kelly is uh longtime American Family Insurance, uh, one of their leads and uh a super nice guy. I'm a big fan of Dan. And Dan and Pete go all the way back to, I believe, college days. So uh they get together and they were nice enough a couple of years ago to include me in one of their get togethers and a round of golf, and uh just really good people. And I think that's one of the great things about our industry is that there are a lot of really good people. And when you get to be around them, you you you count your blessings a little bit. So uh Pete's one of those guys, and so is Dan Kelly, who's not in our industry, but uh pals with Pete. So uh so I appreciate um the friendship that I have with Pete and uh gave him a little bit of a hard time, not so much him, uh, but about Dan Kelly because he's not here to defend himself uh on that front. So uh so not just one, but a couple of people asked about Marshawn Lynch, uh not Marshawn Lynch, Marshawn Lloyd. I wish it was Marshawn Lynch in his prime, but Marshawn Lloyd, who we just haven't seen healthy and on the field in Green Bay, and I think that's a big part of it. This is probably it. So Zach could ask the question how long do they run with this experiment? I I would think uh that this is that this is the like if he's injured again this year, they'll just do an injury settlement and and let him uh get out the door, and maybe a change of scenery will impact his health or his ability to stay healthy. But he's been a mess, there's no doubt. And all we have heard, and uh we saw in training camp when we got brief glimpses is there's something special there, but it's not special if it if it can't be on the field. So that's a a big part of that conversation. Let me jump into a little bit of the major league baseball uh issue as it relates to the gap in spending. So the the owners put together a proposal that came out last week, and that proposal was A hard cap and a floor. The players association, the players union wants nothing to do with a cap. They don't mind the floor, but they want nothing to do with a cap. Um, I've always viewed it a little bit differently, but I'm not in the financial world or in the legal world. And there's so many elements that are at play there that I just wonder where this is going to go. So you look at the at the standings right now, and there are three underpaid small markets that are division leaders. And I just mentioned that the Brewers, if they were able to win the division this year, they would win the division for the fifth straight time. The reminder is that if they win the division, they'll do it for the fourth straight time or the fifth in the last six years. So I would send the reminder. This is how I see how sports works at the pro level, even at the college level, now that there's so much money in play, anyway. Is that you have to do two things right. Minimum, you have to do two things right to give yourself a shot. You have to be really good in your player personnel. And in order to be really good, you've got to have money. So I think of Ohio State. When they had bad coaching, they didn't win. And then, you know, Cooper was a good coach, but Ohio State got tired, fan base got tired of him because he won, but he didn't win when it mattered. And then, you know, Tressel won more, and then Urban Meyer won more than that. And shoot, a couple of years ago, Ryan Day is on his way out. If he lost one more game, he's gone. And they won the national championship. And then, you know, they play at that level again. Michigan, with less than coaching and all the money and resources on the planet, Michigan didn't win until Harbaugh came back. Lloyd Carr won, but not enough. Not when it mattered. Harbaugh came in and they won. Now, again, they had issues. I don't know if they have the right answer now. You've seen it in basketball. Dusty May was the right answer. There, you know, his predecessor was not the right answer. So two things to begin with have to be in play. You have to be really good player personnel, Milwaukee Brewers. And then you have to have money, not Milwaukee Brewers. But what they have done is they have overcome. But I would add in one more layer to that. Tampa Bay and Milwaukee are really similar from how well they have done on the front of putting out a great product with not a ton of spending. Now, when I say not a ton of spending, Tampa's always lower than Milwaukee in spending. The Brewers are typically, under Mark Atanasio, about 20th as the 30th medium market size. They're about 20th in spending every year. But David Stearns and Matt Arnold and the power that is their player development and scouting has been fantastic. So they are doing it without, but I will point out that a small market team, bottom half of the league media market, has not won the World Series since the Kansas City Royals in 2015. So I think the Brewers are a really good team and a great program, a great franchise. Hard to win in the postseason because everything's got to fall right. And you don't ever play with the security blanket that the Dodgers or Yankees play with. And that is when one of their bigs gets hurt, they go get another big. And that their bigs don't leave, typically. Typically, you don't leave the Dodgers. Now I'm sure there are some examples, but somebody who is established, so Jordan Alvarez doesn't count. He was traded when he was young, and now he's developed into one of the great hitters in baseball. But what I'm talking about is an established star doesn't leave the LA Dodgers because they can pay him. An established star doesn't leave the New York Yankees because they'll pay him. And even if he's not an everyday starter, they'll pay him. So inherent advantages there. The Brewers are really good. I love who the Brewers are. Nobody's picking them to win the World Series. They're a what a game and a half back of the LA Dodgers overall in the standings. Only the Braves and the Dodgers have a better record than the Brewers. Their third best record in all of baseball right now. And the Brewers, in fact, have a better record than the Yankees. Okay, so this is this will not curry me any favor. Um in all of baseball, the Brew have the fourth best record: Atlanta, Dodgers, Tampa Bay Rays. So if I said to you of the top five records in baseball, um, I'll even go six, top six records in baseball, Braves, Dodgers, Rays, Brewers, Yankees, Guardians. If I said pick two, and I'll give you a thousand dollars if one of those two wins the World Series, almost all of you are picking the Dodgers and the Yankees. I would. Out of the top six records right now in Major League Baseball, pick two to win a thousand dollars to win the World Series. Pick two. Your call. Who's not picking Dodgers and Yankees? One of those two teams that win the World Series. Are you are are you picking Atlanta? They've been the best team of baseball. It's really not that close. They're a game and a half better than the Dodgers. The Brewers are a game and a half below the Dodgers. Nobody's picking Tampa Bay. Almost nobody's picking Milwaukee. Nobody's picking the Guardians. They're three of the top six records in baseball. But if I gave you the top six teams and said pick one or pick two, you're all going to the markets that spend money and have the ability to spend money, and then that's where we get into the weeds because some of you would think, well, the Brewers have the ability to spend money. Yeah, it's just not the way the economics of professional sports works, is that a team that produces the revenue that Milwaukee does from television and radio, media market revenue, that they're going to spend with the Dodgers, with the Yankees, with Boston. And, you know, Boston and the Mets and others, they've outspent the world and they're terrible. The Cubs are have a $250-ish million dollar payroll, and they've played awful baseball now for three weeks. In fact, the White Sox have a better record than the Cubs. Check that out. The point of it is Major League Baseball, the Players Association doesn't think that there's a problem inherently in the current deal. And the fan base does. Fans typically side with players. In the case of Major League Baseball, if you ask the fan base in Milwaukee or Minnesota or Cleveland or Kansas City, I can keep going down on the medium to small market teams. If you ask them what they think of the salary structure and the competitive financial balance in Major League Baseball, they'll tell you it sucks. I think Brewers fans, and I'm one of them, will tell you it sucked last October when the Dodgers, the best team money could buy, hit their stride at the wrong time as it related to the Brewers. Because I think we all know that the Yankees at their best and the Dodgers at their best are better than the Brewers, the Guardians, and the Rays at their best. And I'm not talking about May and June. The Brewers have the best record in Major League Baseball in May. They don't crown a World Series champion until the end of October, sometimes the first of November. That's the inherent problem in the salary structure that doesn't have a cap. And some would argue also that doesn't have a floor. I think the Brewers are an incredible franchise. I'm going to repeat myself. I think they're so well run. Matt Arnold and his staff are brilliant. David Stearns wanted to go home and wanted to have money, and now he can't win. And I don't know how long he'll have a job. Craig Council wanted the money, and a team that he grew up being a fan of and going to Chicago. And at least now for a few weeks, he can't win. And if they don't win when it's all said and done this year, both Jed Hoyer and Craig Counsel will have some issue, some trouble on their job security. I was talking to somebody this morning about how this related even to Wisconsin football. And part of the argument that I would have and will have extensively down the road, and whenever somebody engages me in it, is that I don't know if Luke Fickle is a great coach, but I know he's been done a disservice here. Now he's also he owns some of his own stuff here at Wisconsin. But he was not given the opportunity after being hired to compete. Sold a little bit of a false bill of goods. Came here, he was paid well. He was able to go out and get staff. But and then they did f they're doing facilities. But for three years, they didn't pay players, not competitively. That's how you win. Combination. Good players. In this case, you couldn't go get them. They didn't have enough money to go get them. Good players, good coaching. Those combinations win. Good players come from big money. And Wisconsin didn't have big money to get good players. So the players weren't good enough. And I don't know if Luke Feckle's a great coach or not, because we haven't seen him have the ability to be that. This is a judgment year. Should have been year one, but it wasn't. And I think the failure there is on the administration side to not get them enough. Um so I it it's it's a long form discussion. We don't have time for today. Uh, this from Mike Badger Baseball throwback memory. Joe Armin Trout, fullback and football starting center fielder for the baseball program at 85, led the team in runs, scored around 60 tops in the record book. Trout is uh Trout's a contemporary. Uh I've been friends with him for a long time. Associated friends, uh adjacent friends. Um yeah, Trout was was great. Scott Sapicki was was great. He was he did both. He was, I believe, a punter with football and then and then a great first baseman, I think, with uh with Badger Baseball. Back in an era where you could do both, you know, um Johnny Bice could have done both. Uh Andrenga probably could have done both. There are a number of that doesn't happen anymore. It's not the era uh that you can dual sport. In fact, I did that Colton Joseph uh interview with Badger Connect last week, and you know, he and his dad David said, yeah, at a fairly early age, 12, 13, you you got the sport specialized. You can you can play the others, but you you sacrifice certain things to do that, and now it becomes a 24, 365, 24-7, 365 decision to play the sport that you're gonna pursue. And uh for Colton Joseph, that was football, and we'll get to find out beginning September 6th um how well that translates to Big Ten football on a regular basis. They'll open with Notre Dame on that Sunday night at Lambeau. Again, a big thank you to our sponsors as we run through who they are, talking about our friends with one community bank. Go to onecommunity.bank for more information. Our friends at M3Insurance, m3ins.com. For your business insurance and benefit needs, go to m3ins.com. Um, also, uh, as we roll on our friends that we talk about and our support system with neuroscience group, go to neurosciencegroup.com for concussion, spine, head injuries. Uh, nobody does it better. Do yourself a favor, check that out. And also uh by our friends at Pottawatomi Sportsbook and Casino, bet above the rest and habish, habish and rotier. And a reminder, I started this yesterday, so just keep an eye out for it. Uh, Brood Daily with Heller is something out. I started yesterday, did it for the first time, had uh a great following on it, and I appreciate that. But after the Brewers game goes final, but not like right away, at some point after the game, within the hour or so, uh, a seven-minute uh video reaction to what we saw, player of the game, play of the game, what they need to do better and what's coming up next. Uh, just an opinion react to what we just saw. So I'll do that tonight, probably from the ballpark, uh, because I think I'll be at American Family Field unless something changes between now and then. Uh, but I'll be there for that ball game tonight. Tomorrow, I think Treadmill is back on a Super Van Tuesday. I'm at the reconfigure the studio because he hadn't been here. He's been traveling Europe, riding bikes across the Great Wall of China or something. He wasn't there, actually. He was in other parts of Europe. But he was practicing uh, you know, being in shape, which it doesn't, it disqualifies him typically for this show, but he'll be on, I think, tomorrow. I don't know. And then Todd Rosiak on Wednesday, uh Vinny Rettino on Thursday. It's a fun, busy week. I think Nick Osun on Friday. Haven't confirmed that, but we'll we'll work through it. Uh I love Mondays. We've uh we've walked through this one. I'll talk to you tonight, uh, brewed daily with Heller after the Brewers and Giants game tonight at American Family Field. And we'll see you back here tomorrow for I Love Mondays. Always appreciate you being here. Thanks for your time with us, and enjoy the rest of your day.

SPEAKER_02 59:28

I love Mondays with Mike Heller.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Broadcasting live from an underscores bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape.