I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
Mike Heller is back talking all things sports and all things Packers, Brewers, Bucks, Badgers and beyond.
I Love Mondays with Mike Heller
I Love Mondays-Ep82, June 24, 2026
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More perspective on the Bucks trade of Giannis and two 1st round draft choices in the fold. We visit with Drew Olson, Host of "The Huddle" on FSRWI. Talked Bucks, Packers, and Brewers. Enjoy
I love Mondays with my help.
SPEAKER_03From an undisclosed bunker in the Badger State. This is I Love Mondays with Mike Heller. Powered by determination and a little bit of duct tape. Here's your host, Mike Heller.
SPEAKER_04Hey, welcome in on a uh Wednesday. It is the day after round one of the NBA draft. First time in a decade that the Milwaukee Bucks have had lottery pick. Thon Maker was the last. Didn't work out so well. Bucks had two picks last night, Braden Berry's guard from Arizona, who I think is he's NBA. It looks like he's NBA ready. They're both one and done college guys. And Nate Ament, uh forward from Tennessee, who would appear to be more on the project side of things. So we'll see how that what I think we learned in the last 36 hours or so since the Giannis trade took place is that the Bucks are in a it seems obvious, they're in a rebuild and it's going to take a little time. This is not a win now concept. With Giannis in the fold as they will be in Miami, it is a win now. And I'm still convinced, and I said this yesterday, that I was uh less kind of pulled apart on this deal than I thought I would be. I thought there would be more for me emotion attached. Uh, I think that the the long runway to this probably took some of that away. I mean, this has been discussed and bantied about for a very long time. You're all well aware of that. The the mothership really kind of took this under their wing quite a while ago and had this agenda uh and pushed the coverage agenda that Giannis would be a piece that Milwaukee would have to move. So they did. And I think that's why I had maybe a little bit less emotion attached to it. And I thought for quite a while that the best avenue for the Bucks to return to competitive level basketball in the Eastern Conference was to make that move. And then, you know, they have to win the draft. You you you can't win in this league if you don't win in the draft. And I have no idea if they won in the draft. And anybody that says they have an idea, you you might have seen you might have concepts of how these guys can play, but you can't predict whether you've won in the draft. Because that would take us back to when they drafted Giannis and somebody thinking that they lost or won in that draft. You don't know. It'll take a little bit. And that's what they need. That's what Taylor Jenkins needs. It's what the Bucs need to do. You know, the concept of whether they're a playoff team next year. I don't know. Some of this depends on how they handle the other acquired pieces in the deal with Miami, and in particular, Tyler Hero. Does he play in Milwaukee? Because that's that's not a foregone conclusion. It's not an absolute that he will. I think that becomes part of uh the importance of what we're gonna see rolling forward. Uh, let's welcome in our uh viewers and listeners who are sending notes. Uh Dustin says, good morning, Mike. Another night of awesome brewers pitching. We'll get there. It's just crazy. Uh, Mike and Merrill, good morning, all he says with uh partly cloudy. Uh Jim O had a great article today on the Boxing Giannis. Yeah, I listen, um I I'm I'll have Jimmy on when uh the dust settles a little bit on all of this. Uh Jim Osarsky is really good at what he does. And he and I have had uh great conversations about this. Um, and it was wide-ranging from what Laurie Nichol put together to what Jim Osarski put together on the coverage of Giannis and the trade. It's one of the more significant moments in Bucks' history when you send away via trade perhaps your franchise's greatest all-time player. And I say perhaps because you can certainly have the conversation of what Kareem was in Milwaukee. It just didn't last as long. And it I said this yesterday, he didn't want to be in Milwaukee, and Milwaukee sensed that. And you know, it we don't want you here if you don't want to be here. Giannis, to me, the the greatest Milwaukee Bucks player of all time. And when you make that decision to trade him away after 13 years, it's one of the more significant moments in franchise history. So the the coverage level on it was extreme. Mark says, good morning, uh, Mike, and all good morning, Mark. So let me tell you what we're gonna do today. Uh, we had we had a change. So um I had Ted Davis uh booked into the show today. He had something come up. Uh, we're gonna shoot for Friday with Ted. So the longtime radio voice of the Milwaukee Bucks, who now calls Hill Country in Texas his home. Uh, he'll jump into the fray on Friday. It was gonna be today. Instead, it will be Drew Olson. Now, Drew's uh, I guess in a sense, he's pinch hitting. Drew's nobody's pinch hitter. I mean, he's in your everyday lineup. So uh we're gonna visit with Drew. I'll look forward to that. He'll join us here in just a little bit. The other story, along with Braden Berry's and Nate Amit uh coming to the Bucks, the other story, John Horst walked around any Giannis conversation. So to this point, to this point, there has been no public comment, and I don't know if they're restricted on that because uh of the official trade. I mean, that's why Nate Ament, you know, gets intr introduced last night as a member of the Miami Heat, puts on the Heat hat. Um but John Horse was asked about the honest trade, and he walked around all of the the questions and answers there. He also couldn't comment on Ament because of the nature of he's not a Milwaukee buck as it sits right now. It's goofy how the league does this, they've never fixed it, it's not a priority. It ought to be. It's silly to see players go up and put a hat on of a team that they're they don't belong to. So, I mean, it goes back to Dirk. Anyway, uh, so we'll we'll have that part of the conversation as we roll forward. And then the the story on the on the Brewers last night, you know, they had back-to-back pitchers in a pair of Brandons, and apparently the Reds can't hit somebody named Brandon. So the, you know, I know we don't have a Brandon going tonight, but just maybe make a name change. The Brewers pitchers named Brandon in the first two games of the series have combined to go 12 innings, allowing a grand total of two hits, no runs, they've struck out 20 and walked none in that ballpark where pitchers go to die. There's a lot of runs scored at Great American Ballpark. But there has been no runs scored by the Reds in 18 innings of regulation baseball. The first two games of the series, they scored an unearned run in the tenth inning on Monday night. No runs last night. The Brewers only scored two last night. They still don't have a hit with a runner in scoring position in the series, and they've won the first two games. They scored in the 10th inning two runs on Monday night without the benefit of a hit. Last night they score on a triple because it's the only Andrew Bond can only score on a home run or a triple from first base. Those are the only two options. Can't score on the double. And uh it's a great send by Jason Lane and kind of a you know, not great outfield play on a uh Las Vegas ground ball. I mean that Jake Bowers hits a what should be a ground ball, but the Vegas grounds crew must have taken care of the dirt in front of home plate because it bounced over the first baseman's head and into the right field corner, not played very well out there. And and Vaughn scores all the way from first. That's not possible. Vaughn, he has the same uh chance of scoring from first base as many fantasy campers have in January, or the same chance as Gary Sanchez. El Gary can't run either. But the Brewers score to run there and then um later on a sack fly. That's it. No hits with a runner in scoring position in the series for the Brewers, or the Reds, for that matter, and you played uh 19 innings of baseball. Um Mike says, I always thought that the big O Oscar Robertson was an equal part of that 70 championship huge facilitator, shutdown defender. Uh, he is, and but in in the interest of fairness, I've never seen that series. You know, I've seen highlights of it, but wasn't old enough to be paying attention when I was seven years old, whatever. So I don't know how much I don't know the the intricacies of the Bucks' first NBA championship, other than that Kareem was the best player on the planet at the time. All right, let me uh let me tell you about sponsors because uh it means a lot to what I do, and I hope it means something to you. Uh, and I hope that you give one community bank a chance the next time you're making a banking decision. One community bank, you can go to the website, onecommunity.bank, if you're looking to purchase or build a new home or ready to refinance your existing mortgage. One community bank has a mortgage solution that will fit your needs. Visit the website onecommunity.bank or go to any one of their locations to experience feel good banking. 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And all injury updates, including mine, presented by Habish, Habish, and Rotier. 13 locations to ensure you get a hometown attorney who understands your life and the impacts of your injury on your life, personally committed to your recovery. And one other note as we talk about sponsors, Traditions Lighting is also a sponsor of the I Love Mondays podcast. And I do this, this is the time of year I do this and don't feel bad about it. Six months from today is Christmas Eve. So if you're thinking of doing a holiday lighting package, now's the time to get traditions out to your home or your business and to set it up and look at what works best for you and then put it on the calendar. So they also do permanent lighting, exterior landscape lighting for home or business. And the cool thing in either place, home or business, is the layer of security it also provides. It pretties up your exterior curb appeal, but it also provides a layer of security for bad actors because your house or business lit up is less of a target. So that's part of that. Brian White wanted me to not disrespect the fantasy campers. We can run somewhat. I followed his lead. He went to fantasy camp, uh, pulled his hamstring on day one. So did I. Hi, Drew. How's it going, Mike? Good. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I'm terrific. Good to be talking with you. Good to be talking sports after 8 01 a.m.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you you have the early wake-up call as you do every day on the huddle, uh, Fox Sports Radio Wisconsin from 5 to 8 in the morning. And uh, you're kind enough to stick around and do this a couple hours later. Yeah, I mean, your work day ended two day two hours ago.
SPEAKER_01It did, but I just ran to Costco, which is by the office here, and I'm I'm I'm making myself useful. So, you know, that's what happens.
SPEAKER_04Well, what was your I was saying this off the top of the show today, and I said it yesterday too, that my emotions on the honest trade were not as significant as I thought. And I think part of that reason is that it was such a long runway leading up to it that it that emotional um inventory was spread out over a longer period of time. But he is one of the greatest athletes in state for one of our teams uh that's ever played any of our games, and that trade is one of the more significant moments in Milwaukee's sports history. Is that fair? Oh, absolutely it's fair.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, I agree with you. It got to the point where most folks were like, whatever's gonna happen, just get it over with. Right. Right? They just fatigue from the years of the story, and not dissimilar in some ways from the Brett Favre divorce and the Aaron Rodgers exit. Why can't we have nice things? Why can't we have superstar players play their entire careers here? It doesn't happen very often anywhere in sports, right? Right. So wish Giannis the best, but he'll always be a buck for a lot of people, even if he wins a title. It's kind of like Tom Brady going to Tampa. He won a title there, and I'm sure Buccaneers fans remember that, but they don't embrace him, and he's a patriot for life. And it's the same thing, I think, with Giannis and the Bucks. And to have a front row seat like we did to his story is will never happen again. We may have somebody more accomplished or win more titles or more MVPs or break his records, but no one's gonna be embraced from that 18-year-old buddy the elf character who came here and had never had a smoothie or pancakes and was discovering everything and learned how to drive and you know, taking us on the ride that he took us on, you know, five years ago, which by the way, we're coming up five years ago.
SPEAKER_04And that's something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01The stat that blew me away, we talked about it the other day on the the huddle was that uh five years later, Devin Booker is the only player on either roster still with the teams from the finals that year. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_04Massive turnover. Um, hey, when I think back on trades, whether we're talking about Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers or when Paul Molleter left Milwaukee, somebody wants to blame. I mean, somebody is almost always to blame. You could have taken you were on a side with Favre. There was no middle ground there. It seems that there's middle ground here, and that there's less blame to be had when talking about the Giannis uh trade to and with Miami. Is do you view it similarly?
SPEAKER_01I think so. I think there's everybody shares in it a little bit. John Horse for not building better teams, but bad luck had the biggest part of it, I think. Um, some bad coaching hires from Adrian Griffith. The Doc Rivers didn't help. Yeah. Uh it was just an erosion. It was uh, it wasn't just one cataclysmic event. It was a series of events that uh exacerbated when Giannis turned in the bucks for not letting him play and try to get them investigated. That was when it got kind of that's when you knew you'd cross some kind of Rubicon, right? That he just isn't gonna, it isn't gonna end here. It's not gonna end for him here. And it's a bummer, but it's that's sports. It's like that's that that's the the price of playing the game now. So it's a little bit like if you've ever had a pet and you have to put them down, it's the saddest day and you're so bummed, but then you look back and go, Well, the 10, 12 years I had with that pet was so awesome that it's worth it, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. There, there's uh almost always the truth is in the middle, there's one version, there's another version, and the truth is in between. Giannis is culpable in this too. I think his the PR game played by Giannis and his camp was outstanding. Uh, I think a lot of people don't think that there's any blame in his court on this, but there is, right? I mean, he made a decision at some point that he was not going to stay here. And then the Bucks' path forward to trade him was also constructed by him and limited that they couldn't visit with all the teams because of where they were in the contract situation on the Supermax or the amount of money he's going to extend with in Miami or elsewhere. So the Bucs had two options, and and that and that was Giannis's deal, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, to a point, there's a limited number of teams that could trade for him, or that would make sense. As every team would love to have him, but logistically, do they have the assets to get him? Do they have the space? Do they have is it a fit? And uh, and he was, I guess he wanted to stay in the east, which makes sense because the west is a lot tougher and so it's an easier path. But yeah, when it comes to that, like um I read Eric Name's piece, kind of a first person piece about what it's like, what was what it was like to cover Giannis. And I don't think Giannis is capable of spin. I think he tells you what he feels in the moment, yes, and he tells you honestly. And I know there's a lot of people saying, well, his camp was leaking stuff to Shams, which is probably true, and that's you know, but he can say, I don't have anything to do with that, right? That's their job, yeah, is to send that stuff out into the universe. But Giannis never wavered in two things. He wanted to stay in Milwaukee and wanted to compete for a title, and when those avenues diverged, it was clear that we were at an end. Had the Bucks been in a better situation, the dame trade had worked, or if they had made some moves, or had they shed you know some of the older guys and gotten younger while he was still here and kind of rebuilt him while he was here, like the Brewers kind of did, right? The Brewers kind of never really bottomed out. They just kind of Packers, same thing. They never bottomed out, they had the youngest roster in the league for three years and still made the playoffs, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So that in terms of that, I know there's a lot of people saying, Oh, Giannis is it's almost like a defense mechanism. He's two-faced, he played us, he won, you know, he said one thing and really wanted out. And I don't I don't know if I buy that, right? Because I think he was unwavering in his I want to win and I want to win in Milwaukee. And once it became quite clear to everybody that that's not possible for the next two, three years, which are you know the the tail end, the downslope of his prime, he had you know, he has to look out for himself.
SPEAKER_04Visiting with Drew Olson of the Huddle Fox Sports Radio, Wisconsin. And I I look back, you we talk about mistakes being made. I think the Bucks did everything that they could do, with one exception. I I if I look back on it, I think that their decisions on the coaching front have there's no way to look at it other than that they screwed that up completely from Bud forward, you know, after the title and then deciding uh to part ways with Bud at some point um a couple of years down the road. They have just messed up the coaching front. I I I applauded the dame move. I think they did all of the other things, anything they could do. I I think to a certain extent they were unlucky, but they weren't unlucky on their coaching decisions, they made bad ones.
SPEAKER_01I agree. Um, Griffin had a good record when he was let go, but it was clear that was a disaster. And then Doc Rivers said, Hold my beer. And you know, you and I have the same vintage grew up like love, loving Doc. He was a counselor at a camp I played at, you know, when I was a kid. And I mean, it just it was a disaster. He kind of mailed it in. He was, you know, they were instead of having shoot arounds, they were golfing. Like it was yeah, yeah, it wasn't great. So they they did screw that up. Now, Budenholzer, at first I thought, well, they shouldn't have fired him, they should have wrote it out. He brought you a title and everything, but now you're hearing like his message was getting stale, and the players were kind of sick of his tactics, if you will. And there is A shelf life, and it might be shorter in the NBA than it is in other sports, right? I think 10 years is a top, top, top uh limit for almost any coach in any circumstance. So the outliers, of course, the Belichicks and the Tomlins and stuff, but you get to 10 years, you run out of stories, and everybody's heard everything, you got no more tricks left in the bag. It might be time for a new move. And so if they had to go back now, would they have fired Bootenholzer? Maybe not, but they definitely wouldn't have hired Griffin and they definitely wouldn't have hired Rivers.
SPEAKER_04So without question. I I I think shelf lives of coaches in one market. That's why if I transition into Matt LaFleur's position right now, I know they extended him, but extensions are just contracts and dollars, and the Packers have no issue with dollars. So, I mean, this is a make or break year, my view, on Matt LaFleur, even though he was extended. Eighth year, something has to happen if they're not a playoff team or if they were a wild card and out. I don't know that he's here because that's the way the game is played. Coaches don't stay places into a ninth year or a tenth year if they haven't gotten all the way home.
SPEAKER_01That's right. I think the meter's running on him for sure, and not having like Jeff Hafley was the hot guy, and now you got Jonathan Gannon with head coaching experience right on the staff. Um, is he maybe not as natural fit? We'll see how the defense plays, right? To see if that's a threat to LaFleur. But absolutely, the things that have happened with this team, and a lot of that last year was bad luck, too. Right. The Bears games and it was injuries, it was a lot of bad luck. But at a certain point, you got to produce, and it's getting to be that time. Like uh Wayne Laravy always told us it was a three-year transition from Rodgers. That's when they would hit their stride, and we're here we look, look where we are, and yeah, it this is where they should be the uh a contender. It's got to start with the Packers getting back to winning the division. Yeah, that's the you know, they haven't done that in a while. And get back and win the division and go from there and you know, play a playoff, play a playoff game at home. Oh, that's good for business always, right? Yeah, and so yeah, the the policy changeover, they extended LaFleur. We he wasn't on the hot seat when he thought he might be last year. I think you're right. I think the meter's running on him, and this is you know, depending on how you get there, if it's another injury, if Jordan Love gets hurt, well, is it Matt LaFleur's fault? Yeah, probably not, but it the meters the meters running and the light is bright on him. I don't know if his seat is warm yet, but it's there's a switch there that could be flipped to make it warm in a hurry.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and anybody that thinks, well, the extension, so he's gonna be there, that's just not the way it works. So I at least I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01I'm like winning coach of the year, get you a ticket out of town within two years.
SPEAKER_04Uh, let me slide back to the Bucs just for a second. Do you you and Billy and Armin have been talking about this? Do you think Tyler Hero plays for the Bucs, or do you think that is uh a commodity that they will spin off into other assets?
SPEAKER_01I think he starts the season with the Bucs. Whether he finishes it, I'm not sure. Because he could be a great deadline piece for somebody looking for a scoring punch and a lift and free agent. So he's you know, there's no commitment. But right now, what does he bring back? Like the Bucs, right? You got to keep the lights on, right? You gotta, you gotta, and I think he helps them, and he's a you know, borderline all-star player and a guy who's gonna get you 20 points, and they need that. They need to be uh uh for Taylor Jenkins, like let's run it with him, see, and I don't know, like what's he gonna get you right now, a year out from free agency. Oh, Billy's got us set up here. Oh, wait, that's the computer IT telling us we need updates on this 1980s computer. But um, I I think that I do think you keep him, like you build around, he's a hometown guy, get him excited about playing here, give you something to to buzz about, and then if you can trade him for assets, because the idea of grabbing your draft picks back for 29, 30, right? It's great, it would be healthy for the organization, but that's not I don't think that's the way to go about things. I wouldn't do it.
SPEAKER_04He might be a better trade deadline asset than he is an off-season asset. You get the trade deadline, and somebody needs that piece because of an injury or whatever that might look like. He might bring in more then than he does now because anybody that acquires him now, it's a one-year rental there too, unless they believe he's in the long-term plans, and then that's a dollar deal. So we'll see how that plays. I think one of the other things, and then I'll leave the Bucks and jump into the Brewer's uh staff of Cy Young Award winners um named Brandon. Uh I think people are gonna get excited quickly about a young Bucks team, and you've been around this for a while in different sports. When you go to uh a youth movement and you get a new roster, that there is a buzz when they start showing what they might be a year from now or two years from now. Detroit was terrible a couple of years ago, and then this last year they were not great, but they were close to great, uh, not in the playoffs. And I think that the Bucs have there will be juice in what they can do, and you'll see start to see some signs of it this year. I don't know if they're a playoff team, but a year from now, two years from now, that's the build, right? That's the hope that they have reinvigorated uh City behind their team. It won't be now, but they can see it.
SPEAKER_01I think you're right. And I you I think that Uzuman Zheng and Khalel Ware and the guys they have like on paper, they're a better team than they were even with Giannis, as dumb as that sounds, right? There, it's a better roster right now. They've added a bunch of guys, kind of reminds me of when the Brewers traded Richie Sexton and got all these pieces back from Arizona, right? Richie Sexton played a year there and it worked out. And I always argued with our boy Dan Needles about that. He he said I made too much of that trade because ah, they got a bunch of scrubs. Well, overbay started, junior spivey started. Yeah, you know, they got De Los Santos and Capuano and uh yeah, what Chad Moeller, and they got uh Council, like they got a bunch of guys in that trade, didn't they? Like, and it was like they got a big league roster that made them legitimate. Now, the Bucks have guys that I think they're better than they were, and you're right, guys, people are gonna latch on to them because now that Giannis is gone and there's no expectations. Well, last year, what'd they win?
SPEAKER_0435, 38 games, I forget 38, 36 of them all together, and they and they stunk. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And now they have Taylor Jenkins is gonna get young guys to play hard, and you're gonna, I think they're gonna be on the fringe of a play-in or a playoff berth. And I think the goals now, winning record to me, would be a win. The winning more than 41 or more would be nice, and then playing in the playoffs would be gravy to get experience for the young core and see what they can do. And they're gonna be back down to the pre-Giannis era or when Giannis's first couple years, you know, Giannis's rookie year, what they set the franchise record for losses, and then you could see him build and you could see it gather and it gathered momentum. Now we're back to the hardcore hoop heads that are gonna be watching this and are gonna be into it and watching the growth and development of the young guys. They got the right coach now, yeah, and they got a good mix of young, hungry guys, a couple of draft picks that those are the best guys on the board, the best guys the the Bucks have drafted since Malcolm Brogdon, probably, or maybe DiVincenzo. Yeah, but it took him a while. So, yeah, there's I think there's uh there's a little to grab on there. There's a little bit to grab on there, and people will uh yeah, it's gonna stink and it's gonna, you know, the I I know the one game I want to attend is the one Giannis comes back with the heat. Yeah, that's the game I want to see, and that's a lot of people are gonna be like that. And the rest of it, well, you know, wake me when you're sure when you're when you're in the Eastern Conference Finals again.
SPEAKER_042028 and 2029, maybe. Yeah, you know, one final note on Giannis. I I knew I loved the dude. I was talking in the hub, Ted Davis on the show on Friday. He and I were at the Cousins Center when they drafted him, and none of us knew how to say his name or anything about him. And they just called him alphabetically.
SPEAKER_01Ted called him the alphabet. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh but I knew I loved Giannis when he took the three-quarters court run at Mike Dunleavy in a playoff game against the Bulls and uh form-tackled him because it was frustration, but it was also passion. And Giannis never lacked and still won't lack for passion. And I think as a sports fan, we can appreciate that. That's the first time I knew hey, there's something about this kid. We'll see what the basketball skills turn into, and they were enormous, but the passion that he played with uh is uh, I think from a fan perspective, it's so greatly appreciated.
SPEAKER_01He had that dog in him, right? Which is why it was so stunning when you know you heard the rumor and unsubstantiated that he's two hours late for a flight, you know, and he was always the first guy at practice, the last guy to leave. You the culture, your team, when your best player is your hardest working player, you're in good shape, right? When you're when when he sets a tone. I talk about that with the Brewers in Yellich, right? The fact that he runs out every ball, doesn't bitch at umpires. He sets it right, he sets a tone for younger guys watching him that get assimilated, and he's a big part of the brewers' culture and has been. Sure, in 2018-19, he's playing like the MVP. Yeah, you know, that sets a tone, but uh he has continued to set a tone for the way he uh Christian Yelich is a uh I call him a high-level grinder, yeah, because he he grinds and yet he's still he looks cool and he looks, you know, California. He looks, you know, watching him run the bases, he looks effortless, but he's a grinder, and that's what Giannis was a grinder, and we'll see. And he's gonna be supremely motivated to win in Miami. I don't know that they have the assets in Miami, not rooting against them or him, right? But I don't know if uh, you know, I don't know that they're gonna win. It's it'll be interesting to see in two or three years who which team is in better shape. Might be in the bucks.
SPEAKER_04The the transition into the brewers uh that that you led me to there and and the Yelich conversation goes back to that interview that that you can go back and look at with Costas and Pat Murphy and and Murph equates Yelich to Derek Jeter, whose picture hangs in his office, Jeter's, even though he hadn't met him. Um he he tried to recruit him when he was a college coach, uh, but he's never had a conversation with Jeter. Yet his picture hangs on his wall for the same reason that Yelich is that team's leader. And now he's certainly not their best player, but you've been around leadership, and it matters in the clubhouse. There are things that are immeasurable that don't show up in box scores, and Yelich brings that to who the Brewers are now and hopefully what they are the rest of the season and into October.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so. And Woodruff to an extent, too. Yeah. Um, the two guys that have been there the longest, right? Right. Like that that they are the guys that set the tone. Brewers have done a great job. Their culture is really good. Guys come in and they feel instantly accepted, and it's there's no a lot of the a lot of other organizations, guys, you know, are afraid to speak out, they're afraid to be themselves, they're just they're walking on eggshells and they're worried about it being yelled at by veterans and stuff like that. Brewers just say, Hey, come on, be you, let's go, let's go win tonight. Murph council helped instill that. David Stearns and Matt Arnold got the right guys. Council helped build that infrastructure, and Murphs kept it going. And uh Yellows, I think, is a big part of that. Interestingly, because you know, we've talked about this before. I talked, I tell people all the time that uh Ricky Weeks was more of a leader in the clubhouse than Ryan Braun. They're like, Oh, that can't be, you know, Braun was a great player. Yeah, but Ricky Weeks was the soul of that team, and Ricky Weeks was the guy that when he said something, he didn't say something very often, but when he said something, the entire clubhouse stopped and listened. And that was, you know, and just the way he went about things. And I've never come in all of my years of doing this, never come across an athlete who hated losing more than Ricky Weeks, and then he could go four for four with four homers and be pissed if they didn't win. Right. And like, don't talk to him because he doesn't want to don't even ask me about myself. We didn't win the damn game. Yeah, and even if he did, even in wins when he was three for four, he would talk about other things that happened in the game or just downplay his own uh role in it, and all he cared about every day was are we winning today? And he could go, uh you know, oh for a month, yeah. And if they won 25 games, he was happy, you know, and you don't see that, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_04Official scorer Drew question Did you see the PCA play last night? How would it be scored? Did you know what I'm saying? I did not see it.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't see it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he's on first, and there's a three ball uh he he's running on a three-ball count and it's ball four and he slides into the throw's made to second base. He slides into second base. Obviously, there's no tag play because the the hitter walked.
SPEAKER_01Ball four, yeah.
SPEAKER_04But he came off the base and he got tagged out and he's out. So after he slid into second, his foot popped off the bag, so he had touched the bag, but then his foot comes off the bag while the tag's still on him and he's out. I don't know if you've ever seen it before. I've never seen that how you would score it, right? Some players convened and got together and then called him out, and then counsel got thrown out for arguing, but it's happened. I saw uh a video this morning that happened to the Cubs years ago as well. And because it's a walk, once he established that he touched second base, it's not a dead ball, and his foot comes off the bag and a tag's applied, he's out. I don't know if it's a caught stealing.
SPEAKER_01I guess caught stealing or a pickoff, right? Yeah, because it could be either because you're you've abandoned the right to the base. Like you don't, I guess, like technically think if someone's walking, you're on first base like PCA was, and you go to second, and then you notice they're not paying attention and just try to run to third. Sure, yeah, like we think of the ball being dead there, but isn't it in play until the batter hits first base unless they call timeout? So I have not seen that. That's an umpire question more than a scoring question, but it's fascinating because I guess it would be technically it's not a he was attempting to steal, but the steal, you can't steal a base when there's a walk. Correct. So to me, it would have to be scored like just a pick off or just a straight put out, yeah, put out four or whatever, whoever tagged him.
SPEAKER_04As the next scorebook entry, because there's a walk, and he has the second on the walk.
SPEAKER_01And then that's where I guess it's a it's a pick off right, pick off two four or two six pick off, I guess.
SPEAKER_04Crazy. Never, I mean, you you uh you pick off a guy uh without uh the pitcher ever standing on the mound to initiate the next at bat, right?
SPEAKER_01That's insane.
SPEAKER_04Uh interesting. Uh in baseball, you've never seen it all because you you can't see it all.
SPEAKER_01Every day you go in, right? Something that you've never seen.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um the the Brandons, there's there's something in every time I see like what Sproat has done and did last night, what Kyle Harrison is doing. Um, I don't we we do sing the praises of Chris Hook and Jim Henderson, but I don't know if he can do it enough because their way of communicating with these guys, and I think it's more communication, sometimes it's mechanics, finding out things. The Brewers, everybody talks about the pitching lab, everybody's got one. It's not as though they invented the lab, but how those two guys manage what they see and their personal skills of dealing with personalities, it is over and over and over again the greatness of Chris Hook and Jim Henderson gets shown. And last night it showed through Brandon Sprout.
SPEAKER_01Give those guys 10-year contracts and start construction on the statue outside the ballpark. Yeah, they win the World Series this year. Their pitching's been incredible, and you're right, they grab guys kind of cast off, and there's so many guys you think about like, oh, could they have fixed you know, player X here? Could they have fixed like players who have come through the burrs before? Could they have you know milked some more out of him? They get the absolute best out of each of these guys, and I'm I'm with you. I don't know because I'm not around it enough to, and I I guess you'd have to ask the pitchers. Is it is it, hey, you need to start throwing this cutter, and this is how you throw it, and this is your finger pressure needs to change, and you'll get more spin. Is it that mechanical, or is it look, when you get to one-one, you gotta sack up and make this pit. You gotta, you know, it's like that. It's I think it's the mental competitive stuff alongside the uh the the physical and logistical. Yeah, you know, I think they're setting those guys up to be competitive and be kind of like bulldogs.
SPEAKER_04Uh Kurt Hogue had a piece uh that he did in advance, he ran it today, but he he talked to Henderson before the game yesterday about Sprout. And I said, every time he takes the ball, there's potential greatness there because he's got stuff, he just has to believe it. And there's a psychological, uh, a psychological game uh that is within the physical game of all sport. And when you believe things change, and certain coaches, managers, sometimes it's not even a coach that we see, it's somebody who's an assistant to an assistant. When they connect to a to a player, it can be uh it can be the difference in a guy that washes out or a guy that you know is an all-star.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think Cotreras is part of that equation too. Oh, his handling of them in in games. And uh, you're right, the confidence thing, and it happens with teams. I maybe it again, Murph having coach in college. You could yeah, you get that you get this bunch of scrappy US hockey players believing they can beat the Russians, right? Like they had no business believing that, but they believed it and they did it. Um, UW Milwaukee, more recently, you know, they what were they eight and eight and twenty-eight or something like that? And they caught fire at the end of the season and believed they could beat anybody, and they went and won you know games in the in the tournament. So that was pretty cool. And it to make it to the college world series there like they did was cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I don't know the rules, maybe and I shouldn't ask something I don't sort of know the answer to. Can Murph coach from anywhere but the dugout? Is baseball allowed? Like in football, you can coach from the booth. Um, but in baseball, it's not allowed, correct?
SPEAKER_01You can't use electronics, like you can't be on a speakerphone or anything like that. But you can when guys get ejected from games, they will yell from their office or from the tunnel, you know, and they'll yell, or there'll be a bat boy that has to sprint back and forth as the messenger, like from Game of Thrones or something.
SPEAKER_04Or they put on a disguise, Bobby Valentine, and say with a fake mustache.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I think uh people have been saying I think Murph's gonna be okay. I don't know that he's gonna miss it. This is a guy who had a grabber during a workout, remember? A big heart attack during a workout and still came back pretty quickly. Tough old bird, you know. You've dealt with Murph, he boxed in his past.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, and I just we continue to go over how or why. I don't know the how or why, but again, from a personal inner personal skills concept, players love playing for Pat Murphy, and maybe it helps that there's a younger roster here in play, but Contreras isn't young anymore by experience values. Uh Woody's not young by any value, Yelich is not young, they've got a bunch of veterans here too that mix in and Murph can communicate with all of them. I'm just I'm wowed by what he's done. And I also want to, and I did this when we were working together um with with iHeart, is some of this credit goes to Mark Attenasio because when Craig leaves, he wants to take everyone with him. And Atenasio had the foresight to say, hey, you're not doing that. Hookie's gonna stay here, and Pat Murphy's gonna be our manager. And I think Craig wanted everybody, he didn't get everybody, and the Brewers have reaped the benefits of those decisions made in ownership and the front office when everything kind of changed when Craig left.
SPEAKER_01Craig had to wait a year to get Quentin Berry, didn't he?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's the one guy that he was allowed to pill for. Yeah, that that is interesting, and to have that firewall, that's kudos to to Mark or or Matt, whoever kind of laid that down. Because yeah, you got to build a fence around those guys. I get a lot of people, you probably hear this too, and I heard it going way back to the Braves dynasty with Leo Mazzoni. Why don't why doesn't Chris Hook manage? Why doesn't somebody hire him to manage? He can win all kinds of games. Well, why would you do that when he's so good at what he's doing? Right? Do I want him worried about the offense and whether we should you know hit and run here or whether we should have this guy steal or whether we're gonna pinch run for this guy, you know, depending on the pitching? No, I want him worried about the worried about the department that he's dominating right now, right?
SPEAKER_04That that's stuff interesting. Next week on Wednesday, a week from today, I'm gonna have Rick Sweet on, the the Nashville Stadium. Yes, he's never interviewed for a big league managerial job, which is ridiculous. Isn't that crazy? He's he's gonna end up being the all-time winningest minor league manager in the history of the game before it's all said and done. He's he's within shouting distance now, and he's never interviewed for a major league managerial job.
SPEAKER_01You would think someone put him on a big league staff, yeah. Well, and he's a terrific guy. You dealt with him at Fantasy Camp, right? Yeah, terrific guy, sweetie. Oh, he's terrific.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so much looking forward to that interview, and it brings me back to what we're talking about here. His job in managing players that have been optioned back to AAA, it's the it's the place they don't want to be, like he's coaching guys. Guys, managing guys who either are on the on the elevator up and they want to be there, but not for very long, or they're going back and forth, and those guys don't want to be there, or they're just going to be stuck there and they know that AAA is their major leagues, and that's it. And so the psychological impacts that a manager can have there are significant. And Sweetie is one of those guys. For anybody who doesn't know Rick Sweet, he is positive, he is upbeat, he is energetic every day, and he's like a central casting character, right? As a triple A manager.
SPEAKER_01He is, and you're right. The the different, because he has to balance. Yeah, you want to win for the people in the stands and for the sounds, and it's good for business to win, but you want to develop his job is to develop people and not to win.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01So he's got those two things going at the same time. Like, well, I'm gonna leave this pitcher in, even though he's getting rocked, because we need to see him deal with adversity, and he learned needs to learn how to get out of the thing. You're doing those things, like you might win a title down there, and it's that'd be sweet. And it is, I know the minor leagues don't count, but I think it is it speaks to the culture. If you've got winning teams in the minor leagues, that that is gonna it can't help, it can't it can't help but help the organization, right? It can't hurt you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And there are some teams like, well, they got a bunch of 4-A guys and they're not developing, and that can happen, but winning is still good. And when you have that culture as and it's established, like this is what we do in the Milwaukee Brewers organization. We win, try to win at every level. Again, yeah, your main thing with the minor leagues is to develop, guys, whether they're for your team or somebody else, because in the next couple weeks, Brewers are gonna be tempted to make a move and peel off some of these prospects that they've got because they might want to have room for everybody, yeah. Right? So that's that's gonna be fantastic. It's gonna be really fun to see what they do and who they determine uh is expendable as they try to improve the big league roster.
SPEAKER_04Okay, so let me do two things and and then I'll let you go and go about your day. One, um, you just brought up the idea of a trade deadline deal. If you were doing it, where would you be looking? Would you be looking for a bullpen arm, a potential starting pitcher? Would you be looking for a bat? If Drew Olson is in that position, what's your target?
SPEAKER_01I'm looking for a bat and a bullpen arm, and maybe even two bullpen arms because you can't have enough, right? You can't it power plays in the playoffs, so getting more than what do they have, three home runs out of the left side of the infield? Yeah, not so much, not a lot. Getting more of that now. Cooper Pratt's power is gonna come. You're not worried about him right now. He's he's in sconced, he's uh the short, unless he goes 0 for a month, he's gonna be playing and let him grow and let him develop. And it looks like he's you know ready for primetime, having good at bats and playing well. Now, third base, Andrew Fisher's raking at double A.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, you know, I'd be tempted to look at him and see what he could do there, you know, just go straight to the big leagues. Let's see what he can do. He was great in the world baseball classic. But if you can get, if you can rent a third baseman, it doesn't have to be. It used to be that the Brewers, when they traded for guys, would go, well, we might guys we can control for a couple years, they can go after a rental now. That's why the scuba thing is fascinating. Scoobyl takes you to another level. If Brandon Woodruff stays healthy and pitches anywhere close to what he did the other night, right? This rotation's looking really deep. And then you got guys that could drop down into the those relief roles, but bullpen arm, a back of the bullpen guy. I hate the word leverage, but the guy who can pitch at leveraged innings, like having another arm like that with Yuribe McGill and Ashby, it one, if not two, would be ideal. And that's to me, that's the way to go.
SPEAKER_04They might have one within their own mitts. Jared Koenig is is you know, he was a leveraged guy a year ago, and they got to make a decision on him because his 30-day rehab is gonna expire here, so they're gonna have to make a call on him within the next few days. And then let me leave you with this, Drew. As we step back and look at this Brewers team right now, who if they get a sweep tonight, they'll be 20 games above 500. Their lead in the division is six over St. Louis, seven and a half over the Cubs. Cubs come in this weekend. What is most impressive? Might be a the kind of a loaded question because everything's been impressive, but I don't know that we expected this team to be better than last year's team, and by pretty much all measures, they are. How or what is it about that that impresses you the most?
SPEAKER_01It's well, the pitching's been fabulous, and that's where it starts, is that they're never they play a lot of close games, and they're never they're never gonna you know bludgeon people, right? But the pitching keeps you in games, so you you know that's a huge part of it. There, you know, how many games have they had where they've come back from a couple runs down?
SPEAKER_04Well, they they they're never out of a game, but yeah, you know how those stats work trailing or uh leading or eight, they pretty much and their recipe is to play from get a lead early and then just let the pitching go to work and hold on to it, which is kind of the that's their their model.
SPEAKER_01But I I think the pitching overall, top to bottom, and especially the rotation and getting the any like you know, Harrison, the revelation, like oh yeah, where was this? Like, you know, that uh uh you knew and then Miz is continued ascension, and the fact that they weathered the injuries to Churio and Yelich and those guys early and Vaughn, yeah, and they held the fort, you know, when it you know, it was that was not easy. So that so that to me is the those are the two biggest things. Like the the offense held, you know, and that that they they the position group held right, and then when reinforcements came, it looked a hell of a lot. Look how much they went Churio, Yelich, having Vaughn. Like even when they don't do anything, they look impressive. Contreras has gotten hot, he looks like he's healthier after the hand thing last year. He's he's been more productive, but yeah, the pitching across the board that is the thing to me is like that has been and no one predicted that. No one predicted Shane Drone would throw six, you know, pristine innings like he did last night. Yeah, no one, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Drone goes tonight.
SPEAKER_01You're I mean, yeah, no, drone, yeah. Drone tonight. Last night was about it was Brandon, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, these two guys, you know, that sprote last night and drone tonight three months ago, we didn't know who they were. I mean, you knew that they were pieces that that you brought in on deals, but didn't expect them to be part of this mix, and they're doing this without Quinn Priester, without Quinn Priester, without DL Hall, Woodruff, right, and DL Hall. Those guys were counted on. And I I that that uh law firm of Ashby and Uribe and McGill, I mean they they're you hope that they're fresh and good when when you get to when it matters, but that equation, that math equation, when you get through six innings with the lead, that looks pretty damn good when those three go out for seven, eight, nine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but to your point, the the miles on the tires, yeah, and you know, uh is Ashby this year's caning? Like, is he the guy that gets uh that pitches like seemingly every day, and then yeah, next year might be a write-off, or you know, it's like win today, yeah. But you also but to protect him, yeah, that's why I'd see one back end, yep, six, seven, eight, nine, maybe you know, not a closer necessarily, because you can do that with the guys you have. I mean, if they did go and get a top, you know, would you love to have Mason Miller in this bullpen with those guys in front? Sure, but I don't know that you need to get guys like that, but another another eurebay or another dependable veteran arm, I think sets you over, and then and then you're fine because and then no one talks about the the Sal Freelix season, right? Because everybody loves Sal. He's not been productive, no, he's almost been the fourth outfielder now, and Lockridge was showing you something, Mitchell's been showing you stuff. Um, I don't there's but there's no it doesn't seem like there's a cry to get a right fielder. How can you survive without uh getting home runs from third base? Well, what's happening in the corner at the other corner?
SPEAKER_04Luis Lara is is a guy who's only 21, and he had a five-hit night last night with Nashville. He's hitting like three and a quarter, that's batting average, and his uh OPS is above 800. And I said a week ago, I said their best outfield is probably Churio, Mitchell, and Lara, and Freelick would be your fourth guy, or he might be a trade piece.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes, absolutely. And that's you know, is Freelick a guy you include now? Yeah, other teams might look and say, Well, he might be the next Caleb Durbin.
SPEAKER_04Sure, right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a flash in the pan in Milwaukee and then get him out of Milwaukee and then see, you know. I a lot Armin was talking about this, and you'll appreciate this because you we all uh love Armin, our station mascot. He's like, I'm wondering if teams aren't gonna trade with the Brewers because of their history of success of kind of fleecing teams, the way that they've elevated the guys they get, and then the guys they give up on don't generally elevate. Yeah, I'm like Armin, people aren't gonna think that they they're all confident, they're all they're doing their research, not like you know, they're not afraid of Matt Arnold taking his call, they'll listen.
SPEAKER_04You know, Armin did he was our MVP. Uh the last time we awarded an MVP, we last time uh the 97.3 had an MVP, it was Armin, and we retired the award, and he'll forever be the MVP.
SPEAKER_01That's right, retired the award and the station.
SPEAKER_04It's all of it gone. Hey, this is fun. I appreciate you doing it. Yeah, man, somewhat short notice with Ted Davis uh having uh having a late cancel today. So I appreciate you saying yes.
SPEAKER_01I can't wait to listen to you and Ted chop it up because you guys shows together, and I want to hear what chet Ted has to say about Giannis and the the whole falling out, and where does he think the blame lies? Because he was on, I saw him on social defending Giannis and he I never saw him lato playing when I was there, and you know, yeah, it's gonna be interesting stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, looking forward to that. Thank you, Drew. Appreciate it. All right, buddy. The rest of the day is great, and we'll listen to you early tomorrow morning.
SPEAKER_01All right, man. Take care.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, Drew. That is Drew Olson, who uh kind enough to uh get up early and do his thing and then come over here or stick around the station and come over here and do um you know a long interview with me. It uh that's the one thing, one of the areas that I love about this mood in doing this podcast is I get to have a guest on, and I usually tell them, and and I told Drew, you know, 35 minutes-ish. Um I love having guests on for more than 12 minutes in radio. That's kind of the window. A, you got to take a commercial break, and guests don't like to hold through commercial breaks, and B, it's just the way it kind of plays that radio show guests are typically 10 to 12 minutes. Normally, you don't have segments that go long longer than 14, 16 minutes. Some people run their clock a little bit different. Well, I don't take traditional commercial breaks, and when I have a guest on, like we will tomorrow with with Vinny, Vinny Rutino comes on, he's here for 50. You know, Drew was just here for probably 40. So I and I love doing that because we can cover more ground, and I don't have to feel like I'm in a hurry to get through to where we want to be. So uh greatly appreciate Drew doing it. I he's one of those guys, I've said this many times, he's not listening now anymore. Anyway, but I would say it if he was listening. When I got to go out and cover Brewer's Spring training for the first time with Drew, and he said, Yeah, we're gonna go have dinner with Hardricourt tonight, I was like a kid. A, I I love Drew, I love his knowledge, uh, I love his baseball background. I just wanted to listen. And I'm sometimes I'm not a great listener. I I think I'm a great listener, but I like to talk apparently. But when I sat with Drew and Hardricourt at whatever the place was, and we went and had uh a burger and some fries and a beer or three, um, I just listened. I asked questions, but I was a listener because I I love the game of baseball. And I had read Tom all the time, I had read Drew all the time, and now we were working together in radio and sitting with hard decor to that dinner. One of the highlights of of my professional broadcast life, just chopping it up with those guys, and it's why I love going to the ballpark now is that I'll stand at the rail by the brewer's dugout when they're having BP, and I'll sit there and talk with Tim Dillard or with Vinny Rettino or with Kurt Hogue or Todd Rosiak or Dave Gasper, who is a lifer, he's an early lifer, but living the game, Hunter, you know, just all these guys. Uh, it's it's a game that lends itself to that, and and I love it. And that's one of my highlights was working with Drew and then being able to do that. Um, it's pretty good. Pretty good. Uh, let me uh bring this in from Brian, who's a fellow fantasy camper. Great interview with Drew. Thank you. I I agree. Uh I love Mondays five days a week. Can't wait for next week with the fantasy camp coach Rick Sweet. See, I didn't have Sweet as my coach, but I was playing third base when he was coaching third base, and we were just having a conversation for that full time that he was out there and I was out there and just pick it up in the next half inning. Uh he's he is going to be a great conversation that'll happen a week from today. Again, I want to go through and thank our sponsors, neuroscience group. Again, another fantasy camper there. Uh, neuroscience group, whether you are struggling with a workplace accident or a sports concussion, neuroscience group is where you go to get things right. Car accidents, workplace injuries. Their team provides comprehensive concussion programs, one of the best in the state, specialized care to help you recover and to return to life safely. Neuroscience group, neuroscience group.com. We're also presented by our friends at Pottawatomie Sportsbook and Casino, Bet Above the Rest, and Habish, Habish, and Rotier 13 locations to ensure you get a hometown attorney that cares about the result of your case. And we're also presented by M3 Insurance. You can go to M3INS.com, your independent and privately held insurance broker and risk management firm. They leverage world-class resources and a specialized team to protect and grow your business. M3INS.com, and also presented by our friends at One Community Bank. Onecommunity.bank is the website. Visit any of their locations to experience feel good banking. One community bank is a member FDIC and an equal housing lender. What a great show. A great conversation. I love talking to Drew, and that was a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed it as well. Brew Daily goes tonight as soon as the Brewers game goes final. Uh, Brewers are looking for a series sweep and their fourth straight win and a chance to get to 20 games over 500. Their lead in the division is at six over the Cardinals. Don't forget the Cubs will come in this weekend. They play a doubleheader today. The Cubs do in New York. And tonight it will be Shane Drowan on the mound for Milwaukee. Right-handed pitcher Rhett Louder goes for the Reds in that game. First pitch tonight at 6.10. All right, uh, that'll take care of us for another edition, the Wednesday edition in the books. I love Monday returns tomorrow at 10 a.m. Vinny Rettino on the show. Don't forget about Brew Daily within 30 minutes or so after the Brewers game goes final tonight in Cincinnati. Again, always good to be here. Appreciate you. We'll talk again later tonight and tomorrow morning.
SPEAKER_00I love Mondays with my help.