Stronger Together: How Teaming Transforms Middle School

In this episode, Dr. Ward is joined by Willoughby Middle School Principal Mr. Jim Greene and child psychiatrist Dr. Molly McVoy for a thoughtful conversation about the middle school years. Together, they discuss adolescent development, the importance of connection, and how the teaming model helps students feel seen, supported, and prepared for success. 

Jim Greene is the Principal of Willoughby Middle School, bringing 22 years of experience in education as a collaborative and student-centered leader. Throughout his career as a principal, assistant principal, teacher, and instructional leader, he has focused on building a positive school culture, supporting staff development, and creating meaningful learning experiences for all students. He is passionate about helping students grow into confident, resilient individuals ready for success both in and beyond the classroom.

Dr. Molly McVoy is an Associate Professor of Psychiatry at University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center and Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine (CWRU). She is the Rocco Motto Endowed Chair of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and was the training director for the Child and Adolescent Psychiatry Fellowship for 11 years. She is a researcher, educator, and clinician with expertise in biomarkers, pediatric psychopharmacology and underserved pediatric populations. She has numerous peer-reviewed publications, is a 2020 Hartwell Individual Biomedical Research Scholar for her work on EEG and has a growing research program, in collaboration with colleagues on school mental health, self-management and mind-body interventions for youth with chronic health and psychiatric conditions.

Music Credit: "Let's Celebrate" by Rewob

Special thanks to Lighthouse Media Services

Transcript

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Welcome to Perspectives with Willoughby Eastlake City School Superintendent Dr. Patrick Ward. On this podcast, we sit down for honest conversations about education, where we are, where we're going, and how we support every student's learning journey. As well as the educators leading the way in this episode, Dr. Ward is joined by Willoughby Middle School Principal, Mr. Jim Greene and child psychiatrist Dr. Molly McVoy for a thoughtful conversation about the middle school years. Together, they discuss adolescent development, the importance of connection, and how the teaming model helps students feel seen, supported, and prepared for success. Thanks for listening. Let's dive in. Today we are gonna wrestle with all things middle school. Okay? All things middle level. This is an exciting period of the, you know, time during, you know, a child's development. And it's also a exciting time academically. Yep. And so before we get too far into this conversation today. Let's take a step back.'Cause we're always interested in kind of unpacking people's origin story. Mm-hmm. Like, how did you get into the role you're in today? Mm-hmm. and then why did you choose the particular profession that you're in? And so we'll start Mr. Greene with you. Tell us a little bit about how you ended up as the Willoughby Middle School principal. All right. So you know I was reflecting, you know, back on my journey. You know, I've been in education for a little bit over 20 years. You know, I started off as a middle school teacher with mathumand social studies. And then for the past 12 years, I've been in administration and two years at Willoughby Middle School. I would say where it all started was through family. Both my parents were educators. My grandmother was even in education. And so I think it's just, you know, it's a part of who I am. I love serving the community. I love helping others out. So definitely very, very blessed to have the different opportunities that, that I've had throughout my career. And being in Willoughby Eastlake City schools has been awesome. have a lot of gratitude and definitely blessed to be out here. So I, I would submit to you, it takes a special person to be a middle level administrator. Yes, a lot of patience, a lot of grace and you probably see some pretty, pretty, remarkable things on any given day on both extremes, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's, like, I think when you look at it each day each day is different. when you go into approaches. You know, we have our routines and everything, but I think at the same time, the main goal is to make sure that everyone in the school community is supported each and every day. You know, you're faced with different challenges and especially in those teen years. You know, there's a lot of successes. There's a lot of areas that we focus on and my main goal personally is attack each day with you know, the outcome of success. But you can't focus on just that outcome. You know, you gotta focus on that journey, what it's gonna take to be, have a successful day. So every day is very you know, it's very vibrant, lots of activity, lots of learning going on. So I definitely love being in middle school. Sounds remarkable. Yeah. Now, now let's pivot over here to a, another you know, profession that kind of has focused in on. This unique period of time Absolutely. In the life of human development. Yes. Dr. McVoy, thank you for coming in. I'm glad to be here on the podcast today. Tell, tell us how did you get to a place where the middle level, that, that particular developmental range was the sweet spot for you? Yeah. And, and can you define it for us? Like what are the ages we're actually talking about? So we can kinda for sure work from there. I'm a child psychiatrist. Okay. And I came to be a child psychiatrist from a family of science teachers. Oh right. And so I was sort of the next step in people that loved kids and loved science and I just kept going to school. and there is a need, and that's part of why I am a child psychiatrist, which means I can prescribe medication and I can do some of the psychosocial stuff for kids. But there is such a need for people that will connect with early teenagers, and I don't tend to define it in school terms. I'm learning that as I do work with schools, but we think of adolescents starting at 11 or 12, so that tends to be when we think of middle school and 11 and 12 up to. 15 is when I think of sort of that early adolescence. So I heard a, a really important word there, connection.'cause I think if we talk about, you know, what you do, Mr. Greene Yes. As well as what you do. Dr. McCoy, I think the, the, the synergy, a good starting place is the power of connection. Absolutely. And we're in an environment now all around us Yes. Where technology continues to put a wedge between us. Mm-hmm. And, and so we heard that in our first podcast as well. We talked about ai. Mm-hmm. We talked a lot about the power of human connection and returning to those fundamental human things that make us, you know, more likely to flourish. Yes, and so thank you guys both for jumping out there today. Yes, definitely, let, let's just start with, is there a educator in your personal journey at some point that you could right now give a shout out to and say, this individual was a huge impact on my life. Mm-hmm. Because we also like to, to hear those testimonies as we were talking about. You know, connection and moving this conversation forward. Mm-hmm. Let's start this time. Over here. Dr. McCoy. I've got two so I can think of Mr. Soria. Okay. He was one of my math teachers in high school. He was just one of those guys that loved the kids and loved math. He's just awesome. And then in college, Nancy Nekvasil was my, one of my biology and pre-med, and she was just the same thing. Loved science, but loved the people, made that connection. Yep. Right. And, and those things tend to last Yes. Beyond like the academic content. Yeah. It was Miss Fistler for me. Fourth grade. I love it was one of my inspirations. And Ms. Percenti, those two keep talking about. Yeah. Well, well, I'm trying to reflect back in, I had one teacher in particular back in ninth grade. Her name was Ms. Kleps. She was my ELA teacher. She was really, you know, focused on regime structures , making sure that we were the best versions of ourselves. I love that. And, I think she definitely had a long lasting impact on me, and I actually ran into her a few years ago. So it was awesome to see her, but she definitely had a lasting memory, lasting impact on my childhood memories in, in school. And then also too Mr. Palo, so Domenic Palo, he was a science teacher at John R. Williams that I had many, many years ago. And you know, he was a football coach. You know, he always made sure he had encouraged us, you know, just to be the best versions of ourselves. So those are two names in particular that kind of, well, I can see this for sure. If you're honoring a former educator with the way you lead today. You are a systems guy for sure. And a routine guy for sure. Yeah. And so if there was an adult in the past that, that helped you on that journey. I see it. Every day. And we're grateful that, that you put those systems in place. Thanks. And so let, let's just take a step, you know, back for a minute and talk a little bit about Willoughby Eastlake schools and the journey we've been on. Mm-hmm. We used to run a junior high model Yep. In the district Yes. At all of our middle schools. And, and we, two years ago, shifted from the junior high model to a middle level teaming model. Yes., can you talk a little bit about what that change looked like mm-hmm. Between junior high and teaming, and then in particular, some of the things you've seen as we've started to kind of watch the, the model evolve? Yeah, definitely. I mean, if you look at it in a traditional school setting, when you look in a middle school. You know, you have your 45 minute transition rotations for class periods, you know, four minutes in between classes. And again, it's very, you know, systematic, okay, gotta go from this class to that class. Lots of traveling. And then also too, I think it's just I, I think that traditional model. Sometimes kids can just feel like they just, they, they blend in. You know, they're not, you know, they're not sticking out amongst their peers. And so I think that experiencing, so I experienced that as a middle school teacher, so I know exactly what that is like. And then actually having the teaming model, like a true teaming model, which means, you know, having the proper staff in place, having the proper schedules in place, and all the resources. I think truly that you're able to surround the whole child more when it comes to supports. Essentially like say we're grade sixth, seventh, and eighth, and I'm just gonna make up some numbers here. Let's just say you have about 180 students per grade level, and you split up each grade level into two teams. Well, I was having a conversation the other day with actually somebody about this in. Like when it comes to middle school teaming, you're not siloing kids from each other. Okay. They come in contact, whether it's during the hall, like you know, hallway transition time, whether it's in some of the classes, 'cause you have some class, some students are in accelerated classes. Some take different types of elective courses. Some are involved in sports activities, so they're gonna have that time to socially. However, it's the, the key component is, is during your core instructional time, you're able to really, really get strategic when it comes to student support for core subject areas. But then we also have additional flex time. Where you can actually bring the entire grade level together, whether it's talking about, you know, any upcoming events, interventions. However, where I think that middle school teaming really accelerates is student support.'cause it surrounds the entire child. For example, every day middle school teachers, the core teachers, they meet for a professional learning community time. So PLC time where that allows them to strategize and talk about the individual child. Not clusters of child of children, right?, 20, 30, 40 kids at a time. Like they actually can kind of go into the weeds and say, Hey, listen, is this child accelerating in this grade level as far as academics? Are they, how's the attendance looking? Are they going through so many any issues? We can bring parents up at that time. You know, we don't have to wait for parent conferences anymore. We don't have to wait days, weeks, months to provide support. We're able to provide support instantaneously. You don't get that without the model of teaming. So I think, so when you talk about connection Yeah. Being seen. Mm-hmm. Feeling supported. Yeah. Yeah. Not being able to hide. Yes. Sounds like some important things for this particular Yes. Each group. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about developmentally Yes. How this model that, that he just described might support like, the the learner's development Yeah. During those kind of formative years from your perspective. For sure. I happen to have a seventh grader who's outta school that has teams, and it's incredibly helpful. They're, they're going from being often at elementary school. Where they tell them what to do, but they also know them. Like elementary school teachers know their kids 'cause they don't have multiple teach, you know, they may have three or four teachers, but they don't have 10. Middle school, they're starting to be independent but not really. They're, they don't really know. And so having adults that know them well, but also allow them to develop a little bit of independence before they go to high school, which now is in. Requires, at least in my experience, incredible independence because it's not the high school of my Gen X self. This is a different landscape. So helping them have a little more independence, but still the teachers still know them and can support them and understand that, yes, you just turned 14 and you're now almost six foot tall, but. Yeah, you still wanna go home and sometimes sit on the couch with the dog and your mom 'cause you're stressed out. You know what I mean? So they know that that is what this age group is like. They got one foot in the door being a grownup, and they got more feet in the door of still being a fifth grader. So outside of that support, which is important mm-hmm. Right? For students to know that there's an adult that's gonna champion them. And an adult that's gonna support them when they have those tough moments academically. What are some of the advantages you're seeing to the teaming model, versus how we used to do it with the junior high kinda period day? Yeah. So. So when you look at a student academic success, okay, there's a lot of factors that go into place. You know, we always, you know, you can refer to state testing. There's benchmark tests, assessments you know, how are they doing with the grades? And so when you're looking at the academics of an individual child there's a lot of key data measures. You know, you might hear somebody. Referred to 'em as like KPIs, like key performance indicators. So there's a lot of different pieces of data you have to look at, but you gotta think about it. There's minimal time to look at that. You have to think about the, the daily routine of a teacher and time is, is of the essence as far as being able to successfully support kids. And so when you embed that time, they're able to kind of say, like, when we're looking at academics with an individual child. All of your teachers, like, think about this, your ELA, your math, your social studies, intervention specialists. Okay. All the different teachers, of course subjects are able to meet at one time and say, if I'm an ELA teacher and I see a student that is struggling in the ELA, I can let all the other teachers know so they're not left in the dark. I think the worst feeling as an educator is lack of communication. And this allows the teachers to talk about. Supports for the individual child, and that quick action that can take place. Also too, you can work on like flex groups as well. Like you might find commonalities, like let's talk academics. When it comes to specific areas that students might accelerate, you might have a cluster of students that really accelerate in one area and you have a cluster that really have a commonality of they're struggling in a specific standard. So you're able to look at that information. Without taming, you're not able to do that, which means, and essentially it means that it's less support for your child in middle school. So, so what I think you're saying is, is that if you're gonna be more personalized in education Yeah. If you're gonna be more student centered. Like you have to put a system in place. Yes. That at least allows for that to happen. Mm-hmm. Because it's not organically just gonna happen. Right. Right. So put your parent hat on for a minute Yeah. And talk from a parent perspective. Yeah. You know, from what are some of the key benefits Yes. That you see. Yes. So it took me a while to learn how it worked. Yeah. You're not alone. Right. But, but they, it's gonna be repetitive, but they know there's actually this group of four teachers. Math, science, language arts, and social studies that all know my son. And he's one of those kids that is really strong in mathumand not strong in language arts. Well, I, I also happen to be a communicator, so my, the teachers would've heard this from me, but I didn't need to be the first one that said it.'cause they talked to each other. So language arts could communicate with math that although he's gonna be able to do all these calculations in his head, he is gonna have a hard time with the war problems. Hmm. So. For as a parent, it is confusing. That is a true statement. But once you learn it, they have the opportunity to really be known by those core teachers and they still, I mean, they still get to see everybody and all the other things with band or, you know, whatever the other stuff is they're doing outside of those core classes. Yeah. So I think we hit on some pretty big, you know, points here. Mm-hmm. That, you know, we value relationships and connection and so the more we can make that intentionally for kids that. Are gonna crave that at this particular stage of their life. Mm-hmm. Like that, that's a win. And then academically, being able to advocate for a child, but also not being able to hide. Right. Correct. Like at some points it's like I could, you know, see, oh, let's play mom versus dad thing here. Mm-hmm. Where now I've got a team of teachers are all speaking the same language. Right. So it's harder to kind of pull a fast one. Yes. Which again, I also have a middle level, child, so they're really good at that. They, they like to hide. Don't see me, please. Right. We're gonna transition a little bit now to a part of this conversation where like, I'm gonna talk about a particular audience and then some advice you might be able to give them. And let's start with the, the parent group, right? Yeah. Like when you think about parents from your perspective, like what advice can you give some of our parents? Who are negotiating these difficult years. Yes. Right. So I'm going to give them the advice that actually I got from one of the middle school counselors, which is they're trying to run away from you at this age, but they need you to hang on tight. And as middle schoolers, they are very good at being unappealing. So, 'cause there's, there's so much happening to them biologically, psychologically, socially, there's so much happening. They are. One minute, one thing, one minute the next. And so it can be overwhelming, but we need to hang on. They need us. The more that they act like they don't is the more that we need to hang on tight and to give yourself a break to know it's okay if you're feeling overwhelmed as a parent or if you're not particularly. Loving the personality of the middle schooler in your house. That's okay. Hang in there. Still be there for 'em. Still tell 'em the things that matter to you as a parent and. That tomorrow might be a whole different kid that you have in your house. This is encouraging. Yes. But how beautiful, that statement idea of just holding tight, right? Hang on. Like what parent doesn't wanna just hold their, their baby longer, right? Yes. That's pretty beautiful. So from the principal perspective mm-hmm. If we're in the advice, you know, giving game here, what, what, what advice could we give parents about supporting'em through that this period of time. From your perspective? From my perspective, like I'm, I'm really big on transparency. I think that keeping that at the forefront, so no matter what you know, a child is facing the more we know, the more we're able to support. A lot of parent conversations I have, you know, we always talk about how it takes a village to raise a child, you know, and that consists of multiple school community partners. Including, you know, the families, the students, the teachers. And so I think that just in regards to anything that a parent might face, just to let parents know, Hey, we're here to help you out. Our goal is to make sure that by the time your child, I, I would say not even leaving just Willoughbyby Middle School, but just leaving whatever school they're at in general is to be success. No matter what it is that they want to do in life. And so I think just having that open lines of communication, and don't get me wrong, I email, I, I love to email, but there's nothing that beats, I think that either face-to-face conversation or a conversation on the phone. Then that way we can kind of game plan. Because in partnership with parents, I think as schools, that's how we can best support their child a hundred percent. You know, they're going through a lot of different. Changes in, in those years and especially in middle school. And, you know, I would say just the biggest important message to parents is just let 'em know that we're, you know, we're here to support. However, each and every day we're here to support. Boy, I really like these two ideas from when they sit next to each other, right? Like, hug 'em and hold 'em. Yeah. Don't let 'em go. Mm-hmm. They need you. They may not be showing it, right? Mm-hmm. Like, but hug them and hold 'em. And this idea that like we, we are not like by default. Like designed to be behind our computers exchanging information that way. Right? Like, come out and let's talk. Yes. Let's have conversations. Let's, , engage each other authentically. Yes. And let's be as open, about the fact that we all care. Mm-hmm. And we're all trying to find a solution. Right. Like that, that's really encouraging. I think I have my parent hat on right now. Yeah. And I'm thinking like, okay, I'm gonna go ahead. I'm gonna hug him today. Yeah, because you know what? Yesterday that was not what we were thinking, so I like that Might be a different kid. This is good. Right? Different. So good. Love it. So, so different group. Let's shift here. Let's talk about educators. Yeah. So if you think about our teachers, right, who are also struggling. Like our middle school teachers chose to teach this level. Yes, yes. And I always said like, they're, this is a special group, right? Yes. It's like they're a special group. Mm-hmm. So like, what? What directly could we share, you know, advice? Could we share with them? Yeah. As we're looking at, you know, again, a world is changing really fast. Yes. Yep. The kids, have access to different things today. Like what advice would we give a, a middle level educator? I, I would say, you know what, keep an open mind. I mean, each day, you know, you approach, it's gonna be different. There's no two days alike. There's no two situations exactly the same. So I think always staying ready, being prepared. You know, we were talking about social media earlier. The days are ever changing. We're never gonna be able to keep ahead of everything, especially with the rapid pace that technology works against us at times. But I think all in all just, you know, feeling confident in the structures and systems that you have in place as an educator. But again, I think just that collaborative mentality going into each day like. We wanna see you do well. You know, so whether we're talking educate, you know, educators, teachers, students, families, we, we want you to be successful. So I think all in all with teachers is like we, we know. That middle school teachers, teachers in general, it, it's a tough field to be in. And again, after those first few years, okay.'cause I was told, they're like, all right. They're like, Jim, you lasted passed your first year, your third year. Your fifth year. You're good. Okay. You're good. So, you know, we go through different, different stages in our journey of education. And I think somewhere along the lines, like me personally, it just, it evolved into like a passion. And so, you know, yes, granted the years add up and the experiences add up. But I think it's just, it, to me, it never gets old and that, you know, that fire is still burning. So I think just my, my number one advice to teachers is, you know, be your authentic self. You know, bring the best versions of yourself each and every day. And, you know, I went back to transparency with, with about parents. The same thing with, with educators. Keep those lines of communication open. Like I'm big as a, as a principal going around the school, making sure they, teachers get what they need. But back to PLCs with middle school teaming, I'm able to literally walk into each of their PLCs each day. Hey, is there anything that you need? Oh, have you heard about this? We talk about different strategies. Again, it's just day by day. I think we continue to get better, but again, communication amongst teachers. And here's one thing about the teaching profession that, unless you're in education, sometimes you might not know this. Depending on what grade level you teach, depending on what subject area you teach, you might not always get to see each other. So to keep up to date with what's happening in this rapid pace, you know, school environment, sometimes you can't keep up with that. So I think just that's what teaming allows us to kind of collaborate more as a staff. So I keep hearing theme here of connection. Yes, yes. But I like to bring the passion. Yes. Like bring the passion still, you know, reset every day. Mm-hmm. That's, that's pretty powerful because like these kids are counting on the adults, right? Yeah. Yep. From your, your perspective, what help, help our educators, right? Yes. So my first is gratitude. I don't, I'm not an educator. Mm-hmm. I spend part of my time as a child psychiatrist working with educators. But gratitude, you guys matter. So as a doctor that takes care of the kids, I always talk to their teachers.'cause you the teachers know them. They know them. They're seeing them every day. Mm-hmm. So, as a person that's dealing with the sickest of the sick, I'm grateful the teachers that stick with these kids mm-hmm. And can give me information so I know how to take care of them. As a parent, although I in theory have an advanced degree in kids, I count on my son's teachers and I have so much gratitude for the expertise that they bring. I will as a parent express and as actually as a prescriber, as a doctor, that back and forth communication is one of the things I think that's probably the hardest for teachers to do. It is so important and so helpful, and so any opportunity. To provide a random positive phone call. Nothing's wrong. Johnny did great today. It is so helpful as a parent to hear that and to know that every time school calls is not that someone's in trouble. Which is easier said than done. True, but having some sort of system and just so much gratitude, we're kind of all on the front lines together and. Similar to what you said, that the mental health profession we're here to help too. Mm-hmm. So if there's things we can do to support educators, so I love that idea that if we approach this conversation through the lens of gratitude, like what a different conversation we'd be having just as a society a hundred percent about the future and investing in our kids and the important adults across so many different professions. That are, that are advocating and supporting kids. Yes. Right. And I think we, we lose sight of that noise. Oh, for sure. If we're just completely online. Right. For sure. So coming offline, having conversations, getting perspectives, so important if we're gonna move, , you know, forward here. And, and I, so I love the idea of passion every day when you come here. And I also love the idea of, you know, entering into this conversation. Yeah. Being grateful and that positive note. Like, imagine how different things could be if we just took one, you know, minute and made that positive phone call. So that when you did make that. More difficult one. Yes.'cause they're gonna happen. Which is gonna come. Yes. It makes this go so much, so much smoother. Yeah. So let's talk about, we're gonna go to our last group here. We're gonna be as succinct with this one as we can because our students, or the reason we have a job, right. It's the reason we show up, right? It's, it's our futures. The best investment a society can make is in their children. Yes. I believe that for 20. Five plus years now. And so if you could talk directly to students Yeah. During this weird time in their life. Yeah. Who are trying to find a way, like what would you tell them? I would tell them they matter. Mm. There are kids that know they matter, so they're blessed with a system of family and friends and teachers that they know that all of them matter though. Even the ones that are. Faced with things that I just can't imagine coping with as an adult that some of these kids have to cope with. And I think middle school is the time when it's the most confusing. If you're okay, high school, they continue to figure out who they are, but are a little more solid in their foundation of, I'm okay, I'm okay as a person. I got it. I'm all right. These are the things I'm good at. You guys matter. And there are adults that will help you when you're not sure about that. Mm-hmm. So you're going, there's gonna be days you're not sure. But you matter. And when you're not sure, find an adult. Probably not one of your friends is probably not the best person to reach out to in that minute. But if you're not sure, find someone that you can trust. Mm-hmm. And help get, get someone to remind you that you matter.'cause you totally do. Boy, you can carry that for sure right here today. Like that's a great, a lot of, a lot of positive messages I'm taking outta this conversation. I'm gonna feel good the rest of today. Good. I'm glad. I'm gonna walk around and just tell people like, you matter. All right. And we believe that, and that's really one of the most crucial things I heard first from someone who's trained in a profession to deliver this type of advice so that, that's outstanding. Very, very great. So let's, let's talk about from your perspective right, to the students. Okay. What would you tell 'em? Yeah, well, you know, what to say to all the students. Like, we see you, we hear you. We value what you have to say, what you bring to our school community. So many times, I, I think that working with middle school students, they might feel like their voices aren't heard. Yeah. So again, just letting them know on a daily basis, we do value what you have to say. We value the different perspectives that you bring to us and I, I let'em know each and every day we have. You know, I meet with all the grade levels in the morning and we just talk about, you know, just encouraging them to be the best person to themselves. And again, don't, don't be afraid to kind of open up and, and talk about. Hey, your successes, talk about if there's any supports that you need. We, we really do wanna see you succeed. So I think just in general, you know, just when it comes down to like student agency Yep. And letting them know like, we're getting, we're getting 'em ready to prepare for their high school journey and beyond. Okay. So in order to prepare them for that, definitely there's crucial conversations and, that we. You know, that we have, especially during the middle school years to kind of help, I think, , you know, promote that positivity, right? You know, I was talking to students earlier today. I said, Hey, positivity always wins. Okay? There's nothing negative about being positive. So I think looking, you try to trick 'em there with that one. That's good. You almost have your first second there. I snap right back. Positively, always win. So, so when, when really thinking about that, you know, go in with a positive mindset. Understand that not every day is gonna be perfect, right. But understand you're in a school community, you're in a school environment that you have the amount of supports, that can help you succeed. Yeah. Not only just inside the school, but that's where, you know, outside of the school as well with parental support., I've been in situations where you don't always have all that support. And, you know, definitely I can affirm that, you know, with, you know, will it be like city schools, and other districts as well that I've come across. But just like we, we have the right supports in place and I think it's just a matter of letting the students know that, hey, we, we, we are here to help you out in any ways. And your voice is valued. So, you know, again, it's a theme I keep hearing like just a little space for some grace every once in a while. Yes. Yes. So we can continue this experiment of just being together in community. Yeah.'Cause that's ultimately you, you, you see kids grow up, , and become hopefully the better and best versions of themselves. Yes. And that's support that we can offer along the way. Mm-hmm. Is we can lean into the idea that you don't have to be perfect. Right. Like you, none of us are. Right. Right, right, right. So, give you a second to think about this. Like, when you think about two challenges. That are top of mind right now when you think about the middle level adolescences, the time we're in. Mm-hmm. Like what are the two things right now that as a wise mentor of mine used to say, you always wanna look around the corner, right? Just be looking down the road. Mm-hmm. Thinking like what could be coming. Mm-hmm. So you could be better prepared. Mm-hmm. Like what advice or insights can you give us as you know, practitioners trying to improve the supports, but also, you know, get our, our best version of our students out the door. Mm-hmm. What are two things that should be top of mind that, that we should be thinking about? Social media. Okay. And mental health. Okay. And so I'm gonna give you a chance to elaborate at that in a minute. I, I would say social media. Okay. And mindset transitioning to another level of school, whether it's elementary and the middle, middle to high school, high school to post-secondary, or college. Yep. Alright. So I'm gonna let you pick one of those two things to elaborate on here. Yep. But I did notice you both chose social media, which is curious, right? Yes. And so who'd like to take that one? You can take it. Okay. Yeah. We as human beings are not designed for social media. We are social creatures, but we are one-on-one social creatures. Mm-hmm. And we are anxious social creatures. So like we're anticipating what might go wrong. Super helpful. When you were living in a cave with 10 people, the person that was paying attention and able to anticipate what went wrong, lived and survived, and their progeny lived on. And help their community. We are not designed to have millions of people be that feedback mm-hmm. To those anxious social creatures that we are. That's what social media is. It is this perpetual reinforcement of this might be what's happening next. Oh, you're not there, they're there. Oh, someone liked you. They didn't like you. It, it reinforces all this. Nervous social energy, and especially for middle schoolers who don't really understand who they are and are developing their social identity. It, it's. It's really problematic and it's really confusing. But I, what I think, what I think I just heard was there's some biological systems correct. That just haven't caught up. They haven't caught up to the technology, the technology in hijacked them. And so that's very fascinating. And so then when you take these little kids Yep. Where beginning to develop into adults. Yep. That sounds like a, a pretty, pretty challenging recipe right there, and so I'm sure, I'm sure Mr. Greene's never dealt with the negative impacts of social media as a principal, right? Never. I don't even know what you're talking about. Okay, good. So perhaps we'll have you back to talk Yeah. Unpack that a little further, because again, any help we could provide parents in this space, I think is absolute paramount. Yes. Because even, even living in education and having a teenager, two of them at home, like I, I know, we don't even know , and we're aware of it. Right, right. So that's. Probably an important conversation we have to continue to have. Yes. Yeah. Mr. Greene, you mentioned these transitions between elementary to middle, middle to high school. Yeah. Yeah. Like, elaborate a little bit on that. So those are really big time, times not only in students' lives, but parents as well and families. And so I think that if you look at, so you look at your K to five years. You know, the makeup of what a school looks like, what the classes look like, minimal movement. And then, as fifth grade gets ready to transition into sixth grade, I always call it the four minute thing. The the four minute issue. And what that is, is when you go from fifth grade into sixth grade, you have to be regimented to transition classes, four minutes to get to your next class. So, which consists of lockers, restroom breaks, seeing some friends and saying hello to them. So that's a huge undertaking for students as they get ready for that. But if you really look at it from, from afar it, there's a bridge from fifth grade into sixth grade. Talking to a lot of parents, you know, there's a lot of nervousness, not only with the students, but the parents as well. So I think just putting their minds at ease, letting 'em know their instructions. Structures and systems in place to support them. That really, I think helps out a lot. But then let's look at our middle school years. Okay? So if you look at middle school years, okay, so let's look at the math. So when you look at grades K to five, you have six different grade levels there. When you look at middle school, you have three, high school, four. So we literally have those children. For the least amount of time, but they're getting ready to embark upon one of the biggest journeys of their career going into high school. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think really, so we have it on two ends here, right? So fifthumand the sixth, but then eighth grade going into ninth, like every morning these past couple weeks, you can start to see it in the eighth grade. There's , faces like, Hey, are you nervous? No, no, I got this. And then others are kind of like sitting to the side. So you can tell the anxiety is getting there. Yeah. But I think that when you look at anxiety, right, that means that you're, you're stuck in the future, right? So anxiety, 'cause we're getting built up about something that hasn't happened yet. So I think the, the biggest thing for me is to pull the kids back in and just say, Hey listen, we're, we're almost a high school and we're gonna make sure that you're prepared by the time you get to high school. Now, here comes high school and a lot of nervousness because you have, , a lot of conversations I had last year with eighth grade parents. I can't believe I got a couple kids in high school now. Like the time, where's the time going? So I think that this goes back to what we talked about earlier in our conversation about, you know, hug your kids, hold on tight, be involved with them. You know, don't let that time pass because that's one thing we can't give back. How, how do we support some of our families with the anxiety that comes with these transitions from your perspective? Yes. Anxiety is one of those again that we inherited from our ancestors. It's great when it's helpful, right? Yeah. You can thank the anxious predecessors. It's super helpful. You don't, you don't run across the street without looking. You get your homework done on time. If we didn't have anxiety, we'd all be psychopaths. So it's good. We have a little bit good, but when you have too much, it gets in the way, so then you get paralyzed. So there are only so many things you can control. Learning to live with the stuff you can't control. Now, mind you, medical students tend to be on the anxious end of the spectr . So I was a medical student, so you know, I, I'm not the most chill human that's ever existed, but learning what are the things I can actually do? So go visit school practice. Walking the halls, the, you know, the things that are, you can practice and get ahead and know about, and then you gotta just kind of sit with all the rest of it. Mm-hmm. So, I like that idea.'cause I know we do do a lot of, , you know, bringing kids to the building Yes. Showing them where their classes are, giving them the, the pre-exposure. And I also like the idea, then you just gotta do it. Yep. Like at some point you gotta take it on. Right. Yep. So as, as we think about winding this conversation down, I always like to end on the most hopeful. Yeah. Note that we can. And so if you could think of one hopeful thing that you're carrying with you right now that, would be good to kind of bring this, this conversation to a, kind of almost some finality. I, my hope is that all the students that come through my building are able to come back to me five years, 10 years from now and share their successes to me. Nothing beats that. There's nothing that could beat that feeling. So my hope is obviously student success. But I, I definitely wanna see like what they've achieved throughout their lives. And now we already know, you know, being in education, you don't always get to see that, but nothing beats it. And, and even like, I, you know, sometimes, like, with my father, he was a coach, he was a teacher and some of his old athletes, like, you know, my wife was somewhere the other day and, and there was somebody there that knew my dad, that had him as a wrestling coach, fantastic, but shared about the impact that he had on him back, you know, during those high school days. So my hope is that down the road, the students that are coming through the building can come back and have a chance to really, reflect on the positive experience that they have. That's outstanding. I think similarly, I know the research shows it takes one adult that cares about a kid mm-hmm. For them to succeed. Mm. And I now get to spend my time with all kinds of adults in all different fields that sincerely care about kids. And so, for all those adults that are doing that right now, that have to be that person, know that you're, you could save a kid's life, and that I'm so hopeful that there's so many people, despite the chaos that we're living in, that sincerely wanna be that person for our kids, that they're gonna be okay. I'll tell you, this conversation alone has given me hope that we're gonna be okay and that the variables that help kids be successful are in place. I found, , professionally that this is not an exact science. We put people together in a place, we call it school, right? We all that grace. Really is what makes us work, right? Yeah. And that we give ourselves a little space. So again, just as a quick, final, parting remark. Yes. When you think about adolescence, when you think about this, the kids, when you think about their development, when you think about school or the support we give them, what, what's that last, sentence or two that you'd like to leave us with today? And we'll start with you, Mr. Greene. Okay. So, you know, I, I'm, I'm like really, you know, I'm really big on quotes, you know, and I always think that in order to be successful, you know, you gotta put the work in , but I think just, just in general as a whole, like, you know, to parents, school community, just, I think sometimes in our daily lives we can get over complicated. Yes. So I think just, just moving forward throughout your life, you know, just keep things simple. As long as you have the resources in place, we're able to provide the supports that are needed. So just keep things simple. And if you're ever feeling overwhelmed, understand like our doors are always open to talk. But just in, in general, keep it simple. Hard work leads to success. You have never been shy to expound upon. Yeah. Your stories and successes today. I'm so grateful for you and your time today. Appreciate and your expertise because what I can sense in this conversation and my interaction with you all the time Yeah. Is you love kids, you love the work, and you're doing some special things for, for our students in our community. Mm-hmm. I'm just grateful for you serving in that role. I think I wanna leave with how amazing. That teenagers and middle schoolers are and how hard. So although I'm a super positive, like I'm a Susie Sunshine kind of person, it's legitimately hard to be a middle schooler. It's legitimately hard to get through those ages and they'll do it like, and you can do it. And there's people that are here to listen and they're so cool when you can get past the. Bear that they can sometimes be. Middle schoolers are just remarkable and manage to do things that I'm not sure I could do. As a 47-year-old. I don't know if I could do some of the stuff they cope with every day, all the time. So I'm grateful that we had a chance to have this conversation. I'm grateful for your time today,, talking about this really important topic. And I'm also hopeful that, by gaining a little perspective on the middle level child and the middle level experience today that we can lean into some of those more human principles, and, and again grow together. I wanna take this opportunity to thank our guests for joining us today on this podcast. I also wanna thank our listeners for spending some time , with us today unpacking this important, topic. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Perspectives. Today's conversation reminds us that the middle school years are both exciting and challenging, and that students thrive when they're surrounded by strong relationships, thoughtful support, and adults who truly see their potential. We appreciate Mr. Jim Greene and Dr. Molly McVoy for sharing their insight and experience. And we thank you for taking the time to listen and reflect with us. Join us next time as we continue exploring new perspectives and working together to support every student's journey.