Aging Well Through Community Connections

In Episode 3 of Aging Well in KC, we sat down with Anne Kinney to learn more about the incredible work being done through Clay County Senior Services and the many resources available to older adults and caregivers in our community.

Anne shared how Clay County Senior Services is helping seniors age safely and independently through programs that support transportation, home modifications, in-home services, caregiver support, social engagement, and so much more. We discussed the importance of planning ahead, reducing isolation, and ensuring older adults have access to the services they need to remain active and connected.

This conversation highlighted the power of community partnerships and the impact local resources can have on the lives of seniors and their families. Whether you are caring for a loved one, planning for your own future, or simply want to know what support is available, this episode offers valuable information and hope for aging well right here in Kansas City.

Join us for this informative conversation with Anne Kinney as we explore how Clay County Senior Services is making a difference and helping older adults thrive in our community.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hey everyone, welcome to Aging Well in KC, where we want to change the narrative on aging in Kansas City. I'm Lauren.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

And I'm Brian. And together we own and operate Seniors Helping Seniors KC North.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

And I'm JC, owner of Seniors Helping Seniors KC Metro South. Together, we want to have real conversations about aging and share our insights to help Kansas City age well.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

So welcome today to our Aging Well in KC. And today we have a guest, Ann Kinney. She is our program and resource coordinator here in Clay County. And Ann, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

I'm so happy to be here. So just let's start, just basics for our listeners who are not familiar with Clay County Senior Services at all. What's your organization do?

SPEAKER_03 1:08

So we've been around since 2004, and we are kind of the hub of resources for adults 60 and older in Clay County. Awesome. We are funded by a senior levy. We're governed by a board of seven who are appointed by the Clay County commissioners.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Awesome. And is this a service that anyone in Clay County can use if you're over that age?

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Or absolutely. You can be over 60 or caring for, loving, supporting, or just knowing somebody who falls within the 60 and older age.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Is is there a place that those individuals that fall into that category would need to go to register or anything like that for the services?

SPEAKER_03 1:56

The cool thing is is um you can come into our office, but I would say probably 99% of the people just just call our office. Okay. And um it's it's wonderful. There's only four of us in in the office. Um I'm probably going to be the one that if you need more than just a phone number or something that you'll end up speaking to. Um and then we'll just talk about what the needs of the of the caller are and go from there. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

So what what are kind of the variety of things, services, support that we can get from absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Um, gosh, we've we've got so many I actually took notes. I hope that's okay. Absolutely. Um we have a lot of services for family members who are supporting an older adult, ranging from adults. Um we can and we don't provide any of the services directly. We have many contractors that we work with, ranging from adult day programs or respite. Um need um minor home repairs and modifications so that our loved ones are able to stay as safe in their home as possible for as long as they're able to. Some in-home support, and that could be anything from linking them with private caregivers, um, if an individual has veteran services, Medicaid. We have a limited in-home care support program at Clay County. Um, unfortunately, there's a pretty significant wait list because everybody's needing assistance. But um as I say, there's always something that we can do or somewhere that we can refer. Um personal emergency um response systems. Um, a lot of people call them, you know, the life alert. And so um those are a wonderful resource for anybody who is wanting to stay in their home or stay active in in their community. Um, they're super easy to get. Um, Clay County pays for a portion of them. Okay. And um basically you can um program them with loved ones in there and also um just 911. So if some if worst case scenario, we never want to think something bad is gonna happen. But worst case scenario, if you're in a medical crisis or um a fall, we talk a lot about falls and falls prevention. That's you know, that's a great way to help continue independence. Um let's see, um, we offer transportation services. Um giving up keys can be difficult, and sometimes even if our loved ones continue to drive, we still, you know, they might not be comfortable going to a doctor's appointment that might be 40, 50 miles away. We can do that. Meals on wheels, life enrichment, we support senior centers, um exercise and recreation programs, you name it, we we do it. That's awesome. Yeah, it's the best job ever.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, that's amazing. That's amazing. That's so cool. Um what would you say um in your pos in your in your current role uh are the most common needs that uh when the phone rings, what is the most common need they have? Um, and then kind of to piggyback on that, what are some of the struggles that you run into?

unknown 5:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

The most common need is just I think it's someone, first of all, it's just someone to listen to who understands and kind of a safe person that you know you can say, I can't say this, you know, to my parents, but I'm I'm really, really worried. You know, what what can you tell me is available? Sometimes just having an ear to listen to know that there are services out there and somebody who is going to be there to listen to you. Like we were talking about earlier. We not we might not have every perfect answer all the time, but we have somebody who can listen, who can offer resources, unless you know that you need them, you don't know what's out there. And so um, you know, I like to first just have the callers understand, you know, that we're here and we're gonna listen to them. And you know, oftentimes one of the first things that they'll ask for is, you know, my parents need help with bathing or someone coming in, you know, to help clean um all those kind of wonderful things that you guys know about very, very well. And there are fantastic services out there. Sometimes there are very limited um financial resources to go around. So, you know, we'll talk about what are some of the options with the in-home care. Along with that, what are some other things that we can do to help them help a parent or a loved one stay safe in the home? And you know, that might be when we talk about transportation or the personal emergency response systems, um meals on wheels, um, minor home repairs, just all of all of those things, all of those little things are part of the overall puzzle. And I think uh just knowing that there's a place that you can call where people, you know, are going to listen. Um we might not have all of the answers, but if we don't have the answer, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna do our best to help you find it.

unknown 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:35

Is there anything that you can elaborate on? You mentioned transportation a few times now. Yeah. And just talk a little bit more in detail about that. You know, we're on the we're on the south side of Kansas City, and it's a huge need. And the south side, I think it's just a huge need overall. Absolutely. When when people are looking for that transportation, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 7:56

It can be anything from um, you know, we we don't drive, we have nobody, you know, no neighbors, no family, or you know, my spouse just was released from a rehab facility. They're in a wheelchair. I can't pick up the wheelchair, I can't get them in and out. So thankfully, I'm I'm not as well-versed as um the resources available in in on the south side of Kansas City. Um, but here in the Northland, we are very lucky. Um we um contract with an agency called Secured Transport, and we're able to offer three round trip rides. Um, they're typically medically based rides a month. Um $7 each way. If the person um, if the consumer doesn't need a wheelchair, if they need a wheelchair, it's ten dollars each way. But when you compare that to some of the other costs that we've seen, you know, it can be $70 to 100 plus dollars just for a one-way trip. So I mean, until you don't have tr transportation or until you there's the need for it, you don't even realize what a lifeline it is. I think most of us just take it for granted until we have a hiccup.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Well, and take those, I have to follow back up with my doctor, or I just had this surgery and now I need to go back to make sure I'm on on the on pace with with the plan. And if I miss all those appointments, then that really sets me back. And so these getting them to these appointments is is crucial.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

It can it can be a setback, they it can it can lead to a financial hardship because most you know, doctors, agencies, they give you a 24-hour window of cancellation, and sometimes you I mean life happens and you just don't know. Yeah, so that's you know, that's one of the great lifeline programs. There's some other kind of secondary transportation programs in Kansas City, um, in the Northland that are you know that are wonderful, but um Secured is the most in inclusive, and they will take um the resident between you know within a 50 mile radius. So it's awesome. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Will they help them if they are wheelchair bound or have mobility um needs, mobility support needs, will they kind of assist them in and out as well to help with that process?

SPEAKER_03 10:23

Yes, um, and I'm still learning a little bit about it. I believe if there's if there's more than two or three stairs, you know, on on the exterior of the house, um, then they might have to call um for like fire department assistance. But beyond that, if it's you know just a couple little stairs, then the drivers and and the staff are absolutely wonderful. Um I I get calls of relief and ex some people have actually called you know crying tears of joy and relief.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

So I don't think there's anything worse than feeling stuck. Yeah, that I can't get the care that I need or do these things that I I need.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

So well and and for some um of our of uh clients and and just seniors in our community, there's programs there that they're um participating in where it requires them to get out VA specific, right? So within the VA, they they have to meet certain requirements and go see their primary care and follow up to be able to stay included in those programs. So if they can't leave or don't have the possibility or the opportunity for transportation, then it it it ends up affecting more than just that fitness.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

Yes, so and it seems like things are always or you know always changing.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Um it's a huge need, so I appreciate you going into a little more detail about that. Well, thanks. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

We we talk about oftentimes um the one constant in seniors' life is change. Yes. That seems to be the one constant, right? Whether it's losing a loved one, spouse, um, losing their their their close family circle or friend circle, their church group, their home, whatever it is, that that's the one constant in their life is change.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Um and so much of that of that change revolves around grief.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Absolutely. Uh so when we talk about just resources available, knowing that the mindset typically when they're calling, right, is I don't know what I need, but I know I need something. I know I need help of some kind. Yeah, it's typically it's it's more of a crisis situation. And we get a lot of that on our part as well, um, as seniors helping seniors. So um, from your perspective, uh there's a lot of resources. Where's a good place to start? Where what what's helpful for families as this crisis mode starts? What what what's first steps, next steps? You know what I mean? Absolutely. Because there's a lot of resources available, but I I I I feel like a lot of families in our community don't know the resources that are out there.

SPEAKER_03 12:52

Absolutely. And like we said, you don't you don't know until you need to know. And even then it can feel just insurmountable to navigate. Um I'll often kind of start off just utilizing a little bit of my mental health background, you know, asking them, asking the caller, okay, if if you could have one wish fulfilled today, you know, if we could help you with, you know, what is the first thing that comes to your mind when, you know, I need help. Okay, what would that look like in this moment? Sure. So, you know, defining defining that a little bit. Um before they call us, um we have a wonderful, incredibly inclusive um website. It's just clay claycoseniors.org. Okay. And it basically lists every every resource, every support, different agencies, things like that. Now that's it's a great resource, but we also know that technology for everybody can be a bit of a challenge, and especially, you know, as as we age. So um that you know, that can be a barrier. So I say, you know, just just call us. I mean, that's that's what I'm there for. And tell me what you know what is the main thing that you're looking for today. What you need today might be different from tomorrow. So there's no limit to the amount of times that you that you can call us.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

Sure. I I love that point because I think a lot of our families, they're kind of tunnel vision, but they see it's such a wide, all of these things I have to take care of. And so I just don't know where to go. I don't know what to do, and they don't have to have those answers all figured out.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

No, no, it's you know, it's it's the walk, it's not, you know, it's not a marathon. Right. Um and I would say for those who are calling, if it's either, you know, the individual needing care themselves or more times, you know, a loved one, a concerned neighbor, you know, talking to them about not only, you know, what are the services, you know, the basic needs type services, but there's there are so many other great resources out there, support groups, um, support groups for caregivers or grief and transitions groups for those of us who are going through it.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Um, because we're a safe space to call, but there's but you know, there are so many other great organizations and um resources in in the community.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

So yeah, and I know probably JCU too, but everybody we come in contact who has anything to do with the community, they just want to help in our area. They just they just want to be helpful and and I know that's the same for you down there too.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah, that's why we do what we do.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

That's right. Yeah, that's right.

unknown 15:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Speaking of that, sorry, I don't mean to take this over.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

That's okay, Brian. That's all right.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

I just um you have a a very deep background related to caring for seniors. Um, and I I know just from speaking to you in the past and working with you a little bit, your your deep passion for helping seniors. So uh I think it's important that everybody uh that watches this knows how involved and how uh how just all in you are with helping seniors. So um I don't know what my question is other than if you could just just touch upon that a little bit about really kind of your background and and why you do what you do.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Absolutely. Um so I talk anybody who has heard me speak before has heard me talk about my love for um my in-laws, they're act my late husband's parents. And um, we just we just take care of each other. My my late husband passed away 13 years ago when my kids were um six and eleven. And um you know, they they stepped in and helped as caregivers. Um some of the some of the most fulfilling and meaningful support that I've provided has been to grandfamilies who have helped to raise grandchildren because they stepped in and helped me when my children were very young. So even though I was widowed, I never felt like you know you're typical if there is such a thing and there really isn't, but I never felt like I had nobody else because I had them. As they aged, um my father-in-law probably about 10 years ago was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and that was um it that was rough. That that that was really, really rough. So not only um, you know, were we caring for you know my young children, um including I have a daughter with some pretty significant developmental disabilities and differences, um but caring, you know, making sure that my father-in-law was doing as well as he could do, um assisting with, you know, sorting of meds, taking them to doctors' offices because they weren't comfortable driving, having that second set of ears, um linking to support groups, um helping to facilitate some of those conversations um with family who didn't live in state, but um you know, also also needed that information. Um and then you know, my own my own father passed away two years ago from vascular dementia, so and and my sister had was his primary caregiver because they're also they were in Lincoln or still, my sister is still in Lincoln. So you know it's caregiving is a lifestyle. Absolutely. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Yeah, it is. I just I think it was important it's important for those of you watching um to just know what an amazing resource we have in Clay County. So I think having that background is just helpful, um, just so they're everyone's aware who's watching this of what resources are here.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

The more people that understand that we might not have all walked the exact same story. Us that are helping, and we want to help people, we want to help our community, it's it's for a reason. We have a why. And it's usually because someone loved us and took care of us, and we want to do the same because it's what you're supposed to do. You know, you're you're raised to take care of your elders and and watch out for mom and take care of your siblings, and you know, and that's what we're called to do. We're called to be that way, and then I think just our culture says isolate and you don't need anybody, but you do, you need people, especially in those moments when it's hard. And I just want to realize that you can't maybe fix these problems for me, but someone's here and they want to help.

SPEAKER_03 20:09

There's there's someone with the with the you know to to share that space, to to hold that space with you, that you know, okay, this is you know, this is something that isn't necessarily going anywhere, but these are the people that can sit with me through it that I know I can call. I think one of the most isolating things that I I've experienced as a caregiver and in my years working with caregivers is just feeling alone and hopeless and not knowing who to call or what to do. And even when we know so many resources, it's still the hardest, the hardest thing to you know to access things. So just yeah, just sharing that that they're not alone. And I've heard the same thing from a lot of the seniors that I've worked with, not only in locating those basic needs resources, but when I've gone into senior centers and senior living communities, and everybody just needs to feel heard and connected and to know that we matter.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah, relationship is deadly and be treat be treated with dignity. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

So for someone maybe listening today that just feels really overwhelmed trying to navigate this, yeah. What would be kind of with all your experience and all of your your knowledge, what what would be the advice that you would give them?

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Breathe. Breathe, which is not always easy, but breathe. Um think about the one or two things that are the most important to you right now and tackle those. share that with somebody. When I was at a former with a former agency, I facilitated several support groups. And one of the things that we always did at the beginning of the support group was a basic community meeting. And you would, you know, introduce yourself, give a word to describe how you how you were feeling, maybe one or two simple goals or just tasks that you were hoping to accomplish that day. And then someone who can help you. And that someone who can help you doesn't necessarily have to be you know a caregiver or a person from an agency or someone physically doing that with you, but someone to just check in with that makes a huge difference. Right. So um you know I there's there's so much power in in connection. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Yeah. And I mean even even with our our families that we're working with right now just sometimes I personally will get overwhelmed with the things that I I need to do or where we need to step in and I can't I can't conquer Rome in a day right I have to just what can I accomplish today? And it might be just that transportation to the doctor's appointment tomorrow and then next week I'll have to start all over but just that just doing the little the little climb versus like you said the marathon and trying to accomplish it easily.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

And I always talk about um either if it's a caller or with support group individuals a hundred percent on any given day is going to look different. You know there are some days where you might be rested and things have you know just you you just feel like a superhero and like oh I can I can do it I can do everything I can do it all. I'm a rock star. And those days are great. And then there might be some rough patches either professionally personally oftentimes both and maybe 20 30% is your 100% for that day you've got to let yourself acknowledge that and accept that I always say you know we treat other people with more kindness than we treat ourselves. So when you're out there and you're looking for the resources you can't forget about either the caregiver or what you need as the person searching for yourself. Yeah yeah that's so good. Absolutely that's great.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

You have an incredible story and really just appreciate you thank you being here today and sharing it with us.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

It's led me to what I get to do now and I've done some wonderful things in you know in my career and in my life but this is I feel like I've won the lottery with with what I get to do and the community partners that I get to work with and the callers and you know our team so yeah so that does lead me to a question.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

So is this um something that's just specific to Clay County or are it are the is this kind of service available all over do more counties have these kind of resources?

SPEAKER_03 25:32

Platt County also has the Platt County Senior Fund and our Platt County Senior Fund is our sister organization. Okay. And they are fantastic as well their you know their leadership their programs their services um they offer many of the same services that that we do um and yeah they're if they have the transportation the caregiving the meals on wheels all of that um within this last year um Jackson County just organized their own senior fund I think that's still in in the works unfortunately um I don't think every single community has what we have if any of the listeners are curious about what's available to them in the Northland or beyond I would suggest to contact your local area agency on aging and with you know within the Kansas City area that would be the Mid-America Regional Council. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

And just see what's available because it could be of a a few of these resources or yes a whole gamut I mean who knows you never I mean you never know and it's you know just like technology resources are always changing and there are there are just so many great community partners that we are so fortunate to get to get to work with.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

So you know think about what you need and then if you have questions call me.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

You heard it pick up the phone call um so if you could encourage a family that needs to have a conversation maybe they're not quite to this crisis mode but they are kind of seeing seeing the future unfold a little bit what would be like that very first conversation to start having what would you recommend just kind of in your with your background and experience first of all I if it's you know a child another family member um someone like that just think about how how would you want to be approached in that in that situation um you know our our parents and our elders are very are very proud many many of them um I think of my parents and and my in-laws you know they came from a time where it's just you know you pull yourself up by your bootstraps and that's you know and and that's a wonderful way and you know independence but um you know we need we need more than that but think about okay when it's my turn to have this conversation because we're all going to be the recipients of this conversation how would I want somebody to um to discuss with me um about these things.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

And then you know talk call an agency like ours or go online and look and see what other community agencies are available. There's there are so many that can kind of help guide guide you. Talk with a trusted friend or um you know communic community leader, mental health individual um you know clergy person, sure just and anybody who who you trust and do it in a time you know where you are able to be relaxed or as as relaxed as you can be because these conversations are never easy. There are some resources out there. There's a program called the five wishes when you guys were kind and lovely enough to come um when we were facilitating the aging mastery um program a while ago and within that you know we talked about you know what are your wishes and these are just you know some of the things to think about. Yeah and if anybody wants more information about this I I can get it for you. But think about what are your five wishes um the person I want to make care decisions for me when I can't you know who would that be? Sometimes it might not be the person um you know either our spouse or the person closest to us because we might need somebody that can have you know maybe a little more strength or to just make those those tough decisions. The kind of medical treatment I want or don't want um how comfortable do I want to be do I want you know just um not just but you know more comfort care or do I want all of the other things to help extend extend my life um how do I want people to treat me you know I've I've known people who have said I you know I know my time is limited. I want to be I want to live in the moment for as long as I can and then I want hospice to come in and and help me exit as peacefully as possible. What do I want my loved ones to know? And then I think the most important thing for those we care for and for ourselves is make sure that all of your um documents final wishes you know things that are updated um wills trusts any changes that need to be made um passwords hopes and dreams for you know what a celebration of life would look like just all all of all of those things that's the best gift that we can leave for others or that others can leave for us.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yeah so just really finding out what they want yeah even though that's a really hard conversation and one that you know I didn't want to have with my dad I didn't want to have that conversation um but I'm so glad I did because it has helped since he's passed and been we've been helping with my mom and helping the you know family things it it's it's takes that takes that weight off your shoulders because this isn't this isn't my life this is what they wanted I'm just helping make it come true.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Yes so absolutely at you know I I think when all is said and done anything that we can do to feel like you know what I did the best that I knew how to do I you know no regrets.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Right right absolutely well and thank you so much for joining us today and and sharing about your program and in the resources here in Clay County and I think just giving us even more to build on because that's the point. That's what we want to do is just continue to build and show show the community what what's out there. So something fun I want to do but I've kind of tweaked it a little bit so the guys are gonna look at me going what are you talking about Lauren? But I want us just to say like what's the best thing about working with seniors? I want us to all the like this week if it's something this week or just some what what was what's a what's a highlight in this field? What's for you?

SPEAKER_03 33:12

They are so appreciative of just having somebody to speak with and honestly sometimes we'll have a conversation and they will just say something that is either so wise or so funny or so beautiful every day I end up with tears of laughter and you know maybe an occasional you know tear of an emotion. But every day I am so thankful that I get to come and and and do what I do. And you know you you get your people who call on on occasion and you just get excited if you hear you know a certain voice and whatnot. Sure. And it's it's it's just it's the best. It's just I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

JC what about you?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

I don't know how you can say something different than that. I mean yeah I mean it's the rewarding experience that we have in giving back to the seniors and I mean it's their life experience. Yes. Right? You know and just uh how they make us feel for the difference that we make in their lives. And so that is really cool. And then you know I mean the other pieces is that our caregivers are seniors themselves.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

You know and uh the difference that they feel that they're making for our clients. And so it just kind of goes all the way around I love that peer-to-peer relationship. It it it is awesome and I and it's and it's such a rewarding experience each and every day.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah we just need meaning yeah absolutely we're so blessed at the end of the day to get to do what we do oh yeah and get to support seniors every day. I mean it's you talk about pinch me moments every day is an awesome awesome day.

SPEAKER_02 34:58

I love those little windows that we get to see a little bit more about who they really are. I've had a couple clients that they'll start singing for me just out of the out of nowhere or they'll tell a joke or just they just have just a little something about their personality and it just it just makes it full circle for us and it's just a oh it just warms my heart the sparks.

SPEAKER_00 35:19

Yes I love it I love it. Yeah yeah um independent what everyone else said because it's 100% true and all aligned with what we do um I love the calls when um initially the family is in stress mode is in uh a des dare I say desperation mode I don't know what to do mom this is the situation and then uh you know happened last week and you get a call and they're like oh my gosh you were right thank you so much she's thriving we're all in a good place like th those are the goosebumps goosebump moments where um I just you know you talk about your why and why we do this absolutely those are the moments that I I cherish I just cherish those moments because we really uh we're lucky enough to serve uh seniors and families in our community and and hopefully be impactful and that's the goal at the end of the day so definitely yeah definitely we're all in this together yes we are yep help helping as best we can yeah for sure um so for those of you um interested in learning more more resources uh related specifically to Clay County um is an amazing resource is there any do you want to provide do you want to plug anything any websites emails whatever you're comfortable sharing so people can get a hold of you um clayco seniors dot org that is our website it's very inclusive um give us a call at 816-4554800 um and chances are that you'll end up speaking to me or any if not me then all of our other wonderful teammates there I mean we just we absolutely love what we do and don't be afraid to call if if anything to just kind of tie a bow on it don't be afraid to call us um and don't don't be afraid to have the the tough conversations we need to have those tough conversations in order to be the best advocates for ourselves and for those that we love and that's what we're there for.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

That's great advice great advice thank you so much thank you guys been amazing I appreciate it of course thanks all right