Videos vs Static Ads with Guest Joanna Wallace (Hexclad)

On this episode, I'm speaking with veteran creative strategist, Joanna Wallace, who built the creative team and systems at Hexclad from the ground up. She's also developed ads for brands like Dr. Squatch and True Classic. If you've been feeling stuck with your creative strategy, this is the episode for you! We also get into something not enough brands think about... ad to landing page alignment, and how even the best creative strategy can't save a bad website. 

PDP = Product Page

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:25

You're listening to the D D and Jelly Marketing Podcast. My name is Chris Julia, and I'm here with guest Joanna Wallace. She built the in-house creative strategy team at HexClad from scratch and has so many great creative insights. I actually saw her on the Operators Podcast, Operator Summit, a couple of weeks ago and just loved her presentation. But I'll give her a couple minutes to introduce herself and talk about anything, anything else that she'd like to.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

That's really about it. You summarized me quite well. I got agency experience and I I run a consulting business right now called Creative RX Consulting. I mostly did it because I I have my little logo. It says it's an add or bottle and it says add erall. That's why I started my own company, just because I I found a logo and I got really excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

No, I love that. That's awesome. It's always nice when you know something you just kind of like spark something like that in the moment, and you're just like, oh, I'm gonna run with this. It's gonna be my brand.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

That's and I knew it was good because my father was like, that's wildly inappropriate.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

And I was like, nailed it. So this episode is going to be about static ads versus videos. And like we did on the last episode, we're going to go over prompts instead of asking just direct questions. So the first prompt that we have today is videos always outperform static ads.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Statics and videos, like I don't like comparing them to each other because they both have a specific role in the ecosystem. You are never going to get hit with one ad. I mean, if your ad's really good, maybe somebody will get hit with one and then click through and you're a genius. But majority of the time, they are getting hit with a barrage of ad or of ads, and the combination of them is going to make them convert. So if they convert last off of a video, that doesn't mean that the statics in your account weren't doing serious, serious work to achieve that last click with the video. So there's a whole lot of reasons, but I think basically it comes down to really depends on industry and really depends on where you are in the funnel. So, like with apparel statics, let's say bird dogs, it's much more impulse-driven and much more like I specifically want that piece of clothing. Very much more of seeing the item and clicking through because of that item. So statics can be very, very powerful in that way. Let's say it's Dr. Squatch, where it's a bar of soap and you can't smell it and you can't see it working and it's just a photo of a bar of soap, that likely is going to be less effective. But it also really depends on the part of the funnel. So if statics are very, very good at top of funnel and bottom of funnel, and they also are capable of doing middle of funnel depending on your product. If you can do like a really good before and after or really good uh comparison table where you can educate, but middle of the funnel is so much about education that that often I feel like lives in video. But the top of funnel, look how pretty we are and legitimate, or top of funnel, just you know, awareness of us, and then bottom of the funnel, like do it now, do it, do it now. Here's the sale. Like that's the the sweet spot I feel like for statics. But again, it truly depends on your on your brand and your industry.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that's our favorite answer as marketers, it depends because it really, really does. And I love that breakdown that you did between apparel versus like CPG product or a repeat purchase product like deodorant or soap or something like that. And then I think the really interesting thing that you mentioned was how statics can actually be very good for that very initial, like um grabbing people's attention before they actually see a video. Because a lot of people I talk to, they really see statics as more of purely just bottom of the funnel like purchasing type of effect, but the right static, because like people aren't willing to pay attention, you know, to a 30-second minute long video, however long it is just yet. And if you have a really good static, especially if you have you know a nice overlay text line associated with it, that can get people interested, or if the product, like apparel, has a very unique style that people haven't seen before, that gets them interested, and then they can see the video content, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Exactly. And I feel like you also have to think about personas and generational psychology because everybody there are some people who will not watch a video. There are some people who say that static image looks like an ad, screw you. But if you think about the generational stuff, like older people are used to traditional ads, they are used to polished static images. And so they probably resonate with that versus Gen Z is like, go F yourself. Do not put this ad on my, like this obvious ad on my feed. So you have to think about who your audience is and who your persona is, and also just thinking about the fact that statics are cheaper to produce and also, you know, to run. And so it's oftentimes really the testing ground for video. So you make sure that with this cheaper format, I can test into different messaging and different personas and when I see what kind of hits, then I can go invest in a video. And then the other thing is that I think this is the big thing, is basically you can be in an era where statics aren't working for you. Uh, I see that a lot with brands, and people either get stuck in the only statics are working or only video is working. And then they just kind of double down. And I think what's really important to remember is that's not permanent because you are in a moment in time, you are in that seasonality, those trigger points of that time of year. You know, March is very different from November. Um, and especially depending on your product and if it's seasonal and and and what personas are purchasing it when. Don't give up on a format just because it didn't work for you for a few months. Come back around in a few months. That's what happened to us at Bird Dogs. It was like we were not, we could not get statics to work in the fall. Then we had one for Black Friday, which was like a uh sticky note ad that just blew up and crushed it. But we came back around in Q1 and we had figured out how to do statics. So don't give up just because you're like, it doesn't work right now. It's right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

And I think that's a really good point that it's not going all in on one or the other, especially with how Meta optimizes right now. A lot of people, you know, like you said, can see, oh, statics are doing the best. So that's the only images that we should, or that's the only content that we should be creating, or videos are doing best. So we should only lean into videos. Like you said, sometimes it is just timing or seasonality based on based on the time of year. Um, other times you just might not be understanding exactly how to execute the right video or execute the right static. And that's something that that I come across a lot too, is someone will say, Oh, well, we've tried statics for eight months and they've never worked, or we tried videos or UGC for however long and it's never worked. And then when you really start asking them questions or, you know, do an analysis yourself, you can pinpoint specific things of why it didn't work. And something for video specifically, like I find the hook can really make or break some of those ads sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 7:18

And I think that, like, for example, an apparel, and I, you know, learned this at True Classic, and it also applied with bird dogs, is very much ghost mannequins. So, if with clothing in particular, you know, you have to picture your body in a product. And so we were trying statics and we didn't have ghost mannequins in the fall, and then we found an app that would turn just like a product laydown into a ghost mannequin super easily. And that's when we started to see that statics took off because we were able to use the image that isn't flat that really shows you how the product is going to fit you rather than just look how pretty the product is.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Yeah, and I think that's something a lot of e-commerce companies struggle with is because they see the products all the time, or they have, you know, like a 30-day return policy. And so, so that in their heads, they're like, Well, it doesn't matter if they can't see it perfectly, or maybe they just like are so close to the product they they know the difference in sizing or just you know what it looks compared to something else similar. But bringing that experience before they become an actual customer is so huge for conversion rates because even with free returns, people still just don't want to go to the post office and go through, you know, contacting the support or or whatever it is. Um, it's still like a a kind of a kind of large friction point. And I know there was a handbag company that I worked with previously where you know they just had pictures of their handbags, but they had like a really large one, a medium one, and a small one. And even though they were called that, you couldn't tell like how big each of them were just from the product photo, and sometimes using like a real image, like um or something, like an everyday image, like something for scale.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

It's actually really funny you say that because I just went to purchase uh a handbag um on was it Portland leather? Um, and I couldn't decide between the two sizes, and I went for the and it wasn't very clear, and so I went for the smaller one and I realized it was too small. So then my option was haul ass down to Denver and return it uh and exchange it, or just buy the bigger one and have them both because it was only $62. And so, like, kind of awesome on them because I just bought the second one and now I have two. So maybe, maybe that is a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, no, that's actually kind of a fair point. Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, great. I think that's good for that prompt. Uh, so let's move on to the next one. You need high production video to win. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 9:46

So, in particular, if you have an high AOV brand, you really, really need high-fi footage. And I say that because, like at HexClad, we're asking you to pay like $1,000 for a bundle of cookware. And it's very important that you understand the value of that. And a high production shoot can really capture the shininess, can really capture the quality, can and the details. And, you know, for us, it was so great because we had food visuals, which are just like, you know, second version of porn on the internet. Uh, and and so we could have these like mesmerizing ASMR shots of like stirring eggs and pouring stuff. So, so vital. There is no way people are going to pay for a very expensive item just seeing crappy UGC footage. I mean, some people will convert, that's a persona. But the way I see it is that it's a very important part of the collection of ads that somebody is going to get served before they actually convert. And so I thought of it at Hexcloud. My system was basically you have one-third high-fi videos, which shows you value and luxury and legitimacy, really kind of backs up the whole Gordon Ramsay thing. Oftentimes the elevated stuff was with Gordon Ramsay. Then you have UGC. Okay, I can picture myself using this. This is now in my home. It's a POV shot with hands. My hands look like that. That's me. I can use it at home. And then you have that static where it's either, you know, just top of funnel, like showing you a product, but mainly that is where you get into the details. That's the breakdown. Here's how you're gonna save money if you bundle, here's our deal, here's our you know, pricing situation. So you really need the combination of them. I think this is also really important for brands that are very visual, like jewelry or like uh clothing, where if if a high if high-fi footage is really going to dramatically show the quality of your product that an iPhone UGC shoot just can't capture, it's so important to have that in the mix. And even if it's not the stuff that converts, it's not the last click, it's doing work, it's creating the vibe.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah. No, and I think like two important things that you keep coming back to is one, it's never going all in on a certain style. It's always really important to have that healthy mix because of just the different personas of kind of like you were talking about earlier of like old audiences versus Gen Z audiences. They just like want very different things, but they can both be your customer depending on what your product is. And the other thing is really being thoughtful about what you're trying to say with your contents, like what business problem you're trying to solve in terms of do I use high high fidelity footage? Do I use an iPhone? Do I use you know, a static? Because I feel like a lot of people just dive into the execution part of the creative, and then afterwards they're like, wait, what was the problem we were trying to solve for this? And then it just doesn't hit because they weren't really being thoughtful in the the pre-creative process, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Yeah, you have to pair, you have to pair your concept properly with the footage that's going to illustrate it best. Just the same way that if I'm going and doing a brief and I'm saying this sweater is baggy, I'm showing like the competitor sweater is too baggy, I'm showing the competitor sweater being too baggy. So you have to, if you're thinking about matching stuff that way, you really need to expand how you're you're thinking about that matching.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

And I guess just a question that I thought of have you ever seen a specific style like iPhone, 4K, static, whatever it is, not work for a certain brand? Like I've seen it where you want to focus more on one or the other, but is there ever an instance where just a certain medium just doesn't work based on the brand, product, demographic, whatever it is?

SPEAKER_03 13:43

I don't think so. Again, I think it's a season that you know, you can you can be a loser for a season, you can be a winner for a season. I don't think that there's um I mean, listen, I sold life insurance and I sold it with statics and I sold it with video. There's nothing to look at there, you know? So yeah, there's a way to make everything work.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, and so that's what I would urge like all operators or owners that are listening to, um, kind of like we were talking about before, if something hasn't worked for you, it most likely is an issue with either the pre-creative process or the execution of it itself. And you're not trying to take a shot at anyone by saying that, but more just you know, fuel to continue testing those ideas, continue doing research, um, or even contacting, you know, a creative strategist who has a lot of experience with it. Because if you haven't found a style to work, that typically means that you know, if you tweak it in the right way, you'll unlock like a whole nother demographic, revenue potential, whatever it is. Um, and kind of like we keep going back to having that mix is really the scale, is really the trick to scaling um instead of just kind of like remaining at a plateau level.

SPEAKER_03 14:47

And I think what's really cool about statics is they are static and they are on your feed. And so, like, for example, at HexClad, we had um one of our taglines was like designed for life. And you can stay on that for a second. When you're in a video, you're moving from point to point. Usually your caption or your headline is not staying at the top the whole time. And so, if you're really trying to hammer home one thing, statics are really important for that. Also, don't try to do too many things with a static.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yes. Yes, I think that's something that I found is you you know, focus on one thing, especially when it is a static. Even videos, in a certain sense, um, you know, like you were kind of just like going over, you can go from scene to scene in there, and it gives you more room to talk about something in length. But even then, if you're trying to, you know, put reviews and features and brand story and all of these different things with one single ad, um, you're just you're just going to miss the mark a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

It's also like with Andromeda, like, oh my God, I um always, I think I talked about this in the operators podcast. Like, I used to love to shove everything into an ad, right? And to be honest with you, with older demographics, I do think sometimes you should because they just want all the information. And like, I've these five questions. If like you can systematically answer them, great, I'll buy your product. But in general, right now with Andromeda, this hex clad ad is for people who are concerned about toxicity and it's about how this is a non-toxic pan. Don't throw in everything in the kitchen sink because then Andromeda is not gonna understand who this is for. The more you keep your personas clean and your messaging clean, the more the algorithm is going to understand who to send it to and send it to the more qualified people.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

I'm really glad you brought up the Andromeda part of this, because that's kind of where I was going. Was it right now with how meta works, and I mean, even TikTok, you really need to focus on that specific thing or that specific persona because otherwise the algorithm's just gonna kind of like get all out of whack. Um, the way it works right now is that it analyzes the context of your ad. So if you're talking about three, four, five, how many ever different things, or trying to speak to three different personas with one ad, that's where you're kind of people are missing the point of creative is the new targeting, because you're not targeting, I mean, you're targeting everyone at that point instead of exactly who who you want. Um, and then having that mix in your account meta will, you know, serve those as it sees fit based on all the background data.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

Yeah, and I know we're gonna talk about landing pages in a bit, but it also is like if you are going to have a persona specific video that is not gonna give, if you have 10 value props for your product and you're only giving three because it's a persona that only three pertain to this persona, that landing page needs to obviously reflect that persona and have those and those VPs, you know, hammered home uh at the top above the fold. But at the same time, that landing page also needs to fill out the picture so they get the answers to those other questions or they get the added benefits. So it's also dishwasher safe, it's also oven safe. These are things that are secondary or tertiary, but they still will contribute to the final decision. Because what if you're on the landing page and you're like, okay, I agree it's non-toxic and that's great, but there's five other different brands that are non-toxic, why this one? And that's where you can start to really like poke, like just get those last little nitty-gritty things. Don't put it in your video though.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, yeah. Cause like in a way, the the video or ad is a hook to your website for them to cut continue reading whatever's there. Something that I talk about with copywriting a lot is the goal of copywriting is just to get people to read that next line. And that's kind of like the same thing with ads, is like that's their first point, then they see the hero or header of your landing page, then that's supposed to get them to go to the next section, and that section's supposed to get them to go to the next section, um, and so on and so forth. And if you you know do too much at once, like one attention spans are just too short, but people are really built, or there's just like a lot of proof that that kind of methodology works, where you're just you know bringing people from piece to piece to piece and really being thoughtful of those pieces.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yeah, every second has to earn the next second. And that's why you can never have like a filler clip in your video as much as you want to. Like that filler clip will break your video and people will walk away.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Absolutely. We'll talk about landing pages more towards the end, but the next topic, which we kind of were talking about, are or next prompt, videos are the best way to show how a product works.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

For the most part, sure. However, there are exceptions. So, for example, before and after statics are great. It's right in your face. You can pause. So, for example, like I had a client back in my agency days, Solo Wave, which is a red light wand. And so we would have these great before and afters, and it's about your skin. Somebody wants to sit there and like look for your pores, look for the skin, like look for the redness that got unreddened. So a static really lets people in marinate with the information as long as they want to. And so I think that for some personas and some people, that's very important. They need to just sit there with it. They don't want it flashing in their face, going, you know, and you think as the marketer, this all makes sense. I'm not giving them too much information because you know it so well. But if you're an outside cold person, you're like reviews and this and that. And it's like, they might not be absorbing the way you are because you've seen the video 50 times. So another example I would say of a static that could, you know, really crush and immediately show what how your product works is like, what if you have um like a pet, one of those pet rollers of like, you know, it cleans your carpet, right? So you could have a static that is a dirty carpet filled with border collie hair, and you could show the swipe mark and you could show the difference between again a before and after. Look how well this is cleaning your carpet. That is very good at showing how your product works. So again, it depends on the product. And do you have a really visual way to demonstrate how it works without motion? Great. Like that's statics can really do a lot for you.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

And yeah, like kind of like you were talking about at the beginning, you statics can be used in that exact way to get cold traffic or be that first touch point for people. Because I mean, we've all heard the phrase like uh a picture says a thousand words or how many ever words that they say. Um, and when you do it the right way with that kind of like before and after style, again, depending on the brand and all those other things, um, it can be just as good, or at least in like a different perspective, showing how the product works, especially for that first touch point. And then maybe they see a video on that second or third touch point where they're really going over exactly how the product works and all the details, because at that, at that point in the journey, they're now ready to digest that much more information.

SPEAKER_03 21:50

People absorb information in different ways. And I think that, you know, it's important, which you're if you're in school and um, or actually, I'm doing this motion boot camp right now, right? And you have the first thing, the first on Tuesdays, you have like the lecture with the slide deck. And then on Thursdays, you have coaches who are saying it kind of differently and re-explaining the concept in a different way. Maybe we have a different visual or different way of uh wording it. And I think it's important for people to learn the same information in different ways. The repetition is really important for people to remember. But also, like if I get the information in a static, then I get it in a video shown slightly differently because it's a different format. Those two working together are actually where you're going to get the full understanding of the product.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And I do find a lot of people are nervous to repeat themselves over and over again because they feel like oh, they've heard this already. Yeah. And um the like people consumers' minds are so short in attention span or like so forgetful, especially about like ads. Like they have so many other things going on in their day. They need that reminder, you know, every step of the journey, especially if it's like a hero value prop, and it doesn't really get redundant in, you know, what gets redundant is sending like 10 emails a day. Like that's something that people are.

SPEAKER_03 23:07

No, then I'm gonna murder you.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

But it also just comes back to like, I think we think of performance marketing as this modern new type of marketing. Dude, just go back in like traditional history of advertising. Think about all the commercials you grew up like watching. Everybody has a tagline, everyone has a jingle, everyone has something that sticks in your head that you associate with that brand, with that product. That's very important. That's like basic psychology of earworm. Give them an earworm that gets stuck in their head. So when I see, like, give me a break, I'm like, ooh, Kit Kats. Uh, you know, it's it's it that's the repetition is how it inserts itself into your brain, sets up camp, and doesn't move.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Yeah, no, that familiarity is huge. And I don't know if you're exactly talking about this, but it's kind of like blending brand with performance marketing in ways where you um and that's what I always say about brand. It's really just like increasing familiarity with people. There's a couple of like other things in that too. Um, but I won't go into the weeds about brand strategy right now. Um, sorry. No, no, you're good. You're good. I could talk forever about brand. So something that I always say though, um, or so like as an example that I used to say, and I know like everyone's always tired of using dating metaphors for marketing, but I think there are things that are kind of relevant to it. Um, I always used to say, would you ask a first date to go on a trip to Hawaii with you? Like that's a crazy ask. Like a lot of people are going to be thinking. Yeah, exactly. They're gonna be creeped out, they're like, why is this person asking me to do this if they have no idea who I am, if never even had, you know, a sit-down dinner or whatever it is type of thing. But you know, someone you've been dating for two or three months or have like a formal relationship with, asking that question, like, oh yeah, absolutely, I'd go to Hawaii with you. And I kind of think of it in the same way with you know, repeating things in an ad strategy or just having those multiple touch points. Um, getting repeating the same things or getting the familiar with your brand allows you to ask for those bigger things like the purchase or maybe like a post-purchase upsell or buying a higher AOV product that you have. So it's really important to you know stay stay true to those things and keep repeating, like you said, taglines to make people very familiar. And just I guess the other way I say it is that just become comfortable with your brand. And when they're comfortable, it's so much easier to ask something from them.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Yeah, I mean, think about it as like networking, right? Like you don't want to go in hard with the ask. You need to get to know the person, you need to like, you know, uh make a connection with them, and then you know, you can ask for favors, but nobody wants to immediately be asked for a favor when and this favor is give me your money, which is like the ultimate favor. And I think that like that's why I really believe in what I call, I'm sure there's like a textbook name for this, but I call them gift ads, where it's I'm just giving you a gift. I am not asking you to do anything. Just look at the pretty picture or laugh at the funny video. Very much the way organic should be working as your top of funnel. I feel like organic should be gifting people things that aren't asking them for something. I'm not demanding money from you. But what I'm giving you is look, it's something fun or something pretty or just scroll past it, whatever. But I think that when people are constantly barraged with like gimme, gimme gimme, they start to resent. And they start to like when you like what it's equivalent to me of when you go on a landing page and suddenly you get hit with 15% off and join this and join that, and then I'm like, bitch, I just wanted to buy a comforter. Like I wanted to, and now I'm pissed that you tried so hard, and now I'm gonna go to your competitor.

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Absolutely. I'm vindictive.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

I'm like a petty, petty purchaser.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

No, but I think everyone can get annoyed gets annoyed when they go to a landing page your website and immediately get a pop-up, and then like a spinning wheel pops up, and then you're like, I can't even read the page. I'm clicking out of more things than I actually am reading the information on the website and like learning who they are and and what they are. I think like so many owners are focused on getting the sale. They're like, Oh, we have to be so promotional. But what I I said in I'll get back into brand again because again, I just love it. Um if you lead with the content or like what makes your brand different beyond price, you don't even have to discount because people are gonna want your product because of like what your brand represents, or just like how it's gonna solve their specific pain points. And that's something I talk with so many owners about. They're like, how do I get away from discounting? Well, you should think more about your brand strategy or just how you're positioning things to customers. And I know brand's kind of like a dirty word sometimes in D2C. They're like, oh, it's just a waste of money, it's a waste of, it's just like sending impressions for impression's sake. But when you execute it the right way, it allows you to move away from discounting and it makes all of your marketing tactics so much more successful.

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Yes. And I was like working with a client, and I kind of like flat out said, like, your website doesn't make me feel like you're proud of your product because it makes me feel like you can only sell it with discounts. And your product, and I was like, are you getting repeat purchasers? Like, are you getting subscribed? I was a CPG. Are you getting subscribers? Do people like your product? Do you have great reviews? They're like, Yeah, they love it, they're coming back all the time. And I'm like, then you don't need to embarrass yourself with these discounts. Stand up, stand up and be proud of this product that people like. Have the confidence when you come across as insecure, people don't trust that your product is good. If you come across as confident, people are gonna assume this is a quality product. So, you know, that it really psychologically makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah, and it's it's more than just removing those discounts, though, right? Because a lot of times why brands have had to survive with discounts is because they haven't done a great job of communicating their value on the website or with like a value proposition or whatever it is. Um, again, like the handbag company that I worked with, one of their best value props was that they were like three in one bags you can turn into a crossbody, a backpack, a tote, uh, but there was no information about that on the website. You had to go into like the features, product details on the product page to even know that that was possible. And once we started leaning more into that transformational aspect, they, you know, got so many more conversions, they didn't have to rely on discounts anymore. But something kind of like we talked about at the beginning, sometimes the owners are just so close to the product, they have a hard time really building that storytelling or understanding like what I actually should be telling, um, because they're all just in the sell, sell, sell mindset.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

And I also think it really usually shows that if you pull back the curtain, they haven't done their persona work. Yeah, and that's I think the big thing. You've taken the shortcut um and you've gotten like the get rich quick scheme, but you haven't actually done the research and the work. I also think that like we are all trained to look at the top bar for a discount or for information. We know to go there. So like, and it's there and it's permanent, it's persistent no matter what page you click on. So I think like trust the consumer that they have been trained on online shopping and they understand where to look, and maybe have it repeated on the PDP and repeated in checkout or whatever it is, but like less is more.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and since we're talking about it anyways, let's just go to that landing page prompt. Your landing page doesn't matter if your creative strategy is good enough.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

Oh, honey. I mean, listen, I don't sweet cherub. No, uh what blows my mind is that people seem to think that just because different departments have different specialties, that they are not part of the same funnel, the same customer experience, which by the way is why your departments need to freaking talk. It's the same experience. And if I so for example, at HexClad, we had a whole initiative of listen, we know carnivores work, right? We have all these carnivore ads, they're really great. It's all this meat that I find disgusting because I don't eat red meat, but it's fine. Other people like it, I'm not that persona. Then they get to the landing page and it was a generic landing page. So we had a real uh we did a lot of testing and we had a real uh push for when you have a strong persona, you need a strong persona-based landing page. So that landing page, that person should not click in the carnivore and learn about how it's dishwasher safe first. That's not why they got here. They want to see more meat, they want to understand how it's going to make your sear beautiful. You need to reiterate what the ads said. So a landing, geez, yeah, landing pages, it's like ad the ad team gets blamed so much when stuff isn't working. And it's like, can can we do some landing page tests, please, for the love of God.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, and I'll I'll never forget one client brought me um on to do a meta audit, and we got on the call, and I think for like the first 20 minutes or so, I was just talking about their landing pages and their collections pages and their homepage and their product pages. Um, because their ad strategy, their creative strategy was actually pretty good. It was just all the landing page pieces that were really missing, and then she stopped me. Weren't you supposed to talk to us about meta-ad strategy? And I'm like, Yes, yes, but your website is so critical, especially now in 2026, to getting the creative strategy to work. And like you just said, Joanna, if you can have the perfect meta-ad strategy, you can have like the perfect creative, everything can be phenomenal account structure-wise, but if your website isn't up to par, you're you're never going to convert anyone. Um, not just because of you know how how much the expectations people have for a really frictionless checkout experience. Um I know on something recently last episode, I mentioned the Amazon effect and how Amazon because the millions of dollars they've put into their checkout experience, it's like so friction-free, it's so easy to check out. And a lot of the times, even if someone was on your website and you have this, they have the same product on Amazon, if it's too clunky, even if it's just like one extra step that might be too much, they'll just go to Amazon and purchase it from there. Which if it's the same brand, it's it's I guess it's fine. But from owners that I've talked to, Amazon does eat into a lot of the margins, and they definitely would prefer people buying on that website.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

I also think that like when you think about DTC as a whole, right? You are asking people or e-com as a whole, you're asking people to purchase online rather than going into a store, which theoretically is safer because you're there, you can touch it, you can feel it, you can ask a salesperson, you can judge for yourself. But what you are doing is you are having somebody weigh the hassle, right? So my closest mall, because I live next to an organic farm, is a half an hour away. So when I'm buying online, my question to myself is which is less hassle for me? Driving a half an hour and going to the mall and having the fluorescent lights and the teenagers, or oh my god, soul, or buying online and knowing that I might have to deal with a return. Now, I personally have gotten to be an expert at returns, like you can't scare me, but most of my friends are like absolutely horrified by having to deal with returns. And so your ad can only do so much, right? And your landing page must fill in the gaps. Must. So it's the same persona, but there are gaps that still need to be explained that maybe a video or a tiny little static can't do. So again, bringing it back to bird dogs, something when um when I came in is I said, listen, we really need to have more detailed PDPs because when I'm, yes, it's beautiful and it's like redesigned and it's very like sleek, but I'm coming to this page and I and we don't necessarily have free returns. So I'm in a pressure, this is a pressure-filled situation where I have to decide how confident am I that I'm going to fit in and like this product when it is delivered? Because is it more of a hassle to like deal with um a return? Is it more of a hassle to like keep it and eat your money, or go to the store and try it on for yourself? And this is especially important for clothes, but especially, especially important for gifting. So if I'm gifting to somebody, I am not them. Again, particularly clothes. I don't go into the dressing room with them and worry about my, you know, waist or my, you know, man boobs or my hip dips or whatever the hell it is. I don't have those problem areas personally that I know how to work around. So I am using the PDP to give me as much information and guidance as possible to make an educated guess that this is going to fit my husband. And if you can't show me different body types with the size and the height, so I know what they bought, if you can't talk to me about like it's fitted here and showing a ghost mannequin, so you, you know, whatever it is, you you have to basically make this a foolproof, no-brainer decision. And if your your ad can't do it alone, because it's not a 30-minute, you know, middle of the night infomercial, your your your LP has to partner with that and finish the job.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

And I think that like different body types, and this this also brings me to one last point I wanted to touch on in terms of landing pages, just like the product photos on those pages. But my girlfriend was just shopping for bathing suits, and one of the things she loved about one of the companies she was looking at was they had so many different body types modeling the um the bathing suits, and something like that that can be so so different or subjective depending on just like what your body type is. If you see just the same model wearing the same or wearing different styles, it really gives you no information because you know, not all of us have the perfect model body or anything.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Speak for yourself, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

So it's really important to have all those different body types on there, or it's just like it's something that can really elevate the experience to kind of like something I think you were getting at. It's just like almost making a PDP or a website kind of like having that concierge that you would have by going into a department store. Because if you're able to do that, if you're able to answer all of their objections, then it makes it so much easier for them to check out. Um, but I guess like the bringing back to my main point, I feel like the product photos on websites are so um aren't thought through as much as they really should be. I remember one client I just recently worked at worked with, it was really hard to see the product photos. Like you can click on them and magnify them, but we just blew up the product photos in a way where you didn't have to click on that magnifying glass in order to see exactly what the style was. And I think the conversion rate went up like 0.5% basically instantly. So like little things like thank you. And I mean, I won't even say it's a little thing, it's a huge thing. It's like what they're buying, they're not able to pick it up and hold it. They have to be able to see um what it actually looks like.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

And I think that that close-up photo, I mean, listen, it's the same philosophy I have with videos. So if I'm making a cloth if I'm making a video on clothes, I want to see different body types, but also like the full I'm wearing it. I want to see it unboxed. And then I want to see close up and see that fabric because we are on the internet and I want to know what kind of quality we're talking about. And I also want to know, like, I can't really tell, is it like more jersey or is it more stretchy, whatever the hell it is. Um, and that close-up is really important so that they really truly understand what they're getting. And I think that not to completely derail us again, but I have you were talking about bathing suits and you're a girlfriend. I have gone on a bathing suit uh uh shopping spree because I'm going to Jamaica on Saturday. Um, and it has been deep, deep, deep research because bathing suits are the devil. And what I've noticed, um, and this goes for like the sundresses I was trying to buy too, is that the websites that ask the correct questions for reviewers are amazing. Because if I get a review and I don't know your age, your height, your weight, your body type, it's helpful to know that you think that it's tight in the waist, but I don't know if what your waist is. And so when you can really incorporate those pieces of information into your reviews, people live and die by reviews. I mean, companies can live and die by reviews. That's where the truth is more likely to lie. And so for me, I was able to have a decent success rate with my bathing suits because I was making sure that like I was looking for people with my body tape and then also taking with a grain of salt the people who turned out to be in their 60s who were giving me their opinion because I'm like, I just don't know if we're on the same page about what we're looking for in fit in a bathing suit, you know? And then you see like the 29-year-old or the 40-year-old, and I'm like, all right, all right, I'll trust you.

SPEAKER_00 40:18

No, that's a really good way of laying it out. Yeah. No, I could talk about landing pages again forever. But before we wrap out or get out of here, I want to give Joanna a little bit of time to talk about some things that she's working on or would love you guys to tune into or check out.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah. Um, so my biggest thing that I'm super, super excited about is I do a YouTube series on creative strategy advice partnering with ReCharm, which is a video library platform that like AI tags and organizes and makes her life just so much better. So this is you can find it on YouTube. It's very realistic and sassy and to the point uh advice and information and guidance. And I think it's it's helpful because I really try not to make it boring. There's a lot of gifts. I have a good gift game. Uh because I really I just freaking love what I do, and I think that a lot of the information out there is very, very dry. And I think that, you know, let's have a little bit of fun. If we're being creative and we're not having fun, what are we doing? We're not doing creative, right?

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Totally. So go check that out. Um, it's ReCharm, right? It's the YouTube channel. Okay, cool. Um, check that out. Uh Joanna is just like so awesome to hear her talk about things. And like she said, she has a great GIF game. So you'll be able to.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

You call it GIF. Yeah, I know it's correct, but I refuse to do it anyway. It's like AFA. I'm not gonna say Afa.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

But go check her, go check her content out. She's also on LinkedIn. Um, do you post content on LinkedIn? I think you do. I do. I'm very chatty. Okay, yeah, yeah. So go check out her LinkedIn content as well. Um, feel free to DM her if you have any you know creative questions or have a project you want her to like take a look at. But thank you everyone for tuning in to the DC and Jelly Marketing Podcast. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Here we go. Here we go.