Can You Hear Me Now?

In this episode of Still Choosing Us, Omar and Yami share a recent disagreement that highlights how easily communication can break down in marriage. They discuss common patterns such as criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling, and contempt, while exploring practical ways to improve connection through listening, understanding, and repairing conflict more quickly. The episode reminds couples that healthy communication isn't about winning arguments—it's about protecting the relationship and helping each other feel seen and understood.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Before we start, if your marriage feels hard right now, you're not failing.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

And if you were the I don't know if I can keep doing this, you're not weak.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

You're certainly not alone.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

This pocket is not about perfect marriage. We don't have one.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

We've been married 18 years. There's a 13-year age gap between us. We blended a family young and we raised kids while still growing up ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

We walked through poverty, trauma, and fight we didn't know how to fix. There were times we were not sure we can make it.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

But we kept choosing again.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Again after disappointment, again after hard seasons.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

This podcast is for couples in the middle, where marriage is messy and real.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

We are not here to give you a perfect answer.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

We're just still here and we're glad you're virtuous. Hi, I'm Yami. And I'm Omar. And on this week's episode of Still Choosing Us, we're going to be talking about communication struggles.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

That's a good one. And we know it well too well because we just struggled with this this weekend.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

And this morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

And this morning. So most couples don't struggle because they don't love each other.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

They struggle because they don't feel understood by each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

And here's some great examples. Repeating the same argument.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Misunderstanding tones.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Feeling unheard.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Reacting too fast.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

And shutting down instead of engaging.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Well, some of those things happen to us this weekend and this morning.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I feel like sometimes these things happen to us so we can have perfect examples to talk on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Well, make sure that we the next episodes that we're gonna do, they're not uh too hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

So you want to go ahead and share what happened yesterday? You can start off.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Well, I I yeah, I have to start it on because so Friday night we Jamie told me just make sure that your phone is in silence and you don't have an alarm clock for Saturday. Normally I had to wake up last Saturday, I had to wake up early to take my truck to get a service. So I was almost half asleep and I was like, okay, so I grabbed my phone, and in my mind, I thought I'd turn off the alarm clock. But what I did is I put my phone in silence and I put it away. That's it, and I went to sleep. So the second part of the story is when at 7 o'clock in the morning, 7:20 in the morning, the alarm clock went on. And I let Jamie's play in that one.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So I'm a very light sleeper, and any little bit of sunlight that comes into a room or any noise wakes me up. And Omar has always had a tendency to either leave his phone on and then his emails go off overnight and all these notifications go off. So now I'm constantly like, hey, make sure your phone is off. And we went to bed late Friday.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

So I wanted to sleep in Saturday. We finally got blackout curtains in our bedroom, and I was so excited to just sleep in Saturday because it's been a while for me. And at 7:20, his alarm clock goes off and I wake up. When that alarm clock went off, we proceeded to stay in bed till 10 o'clock in the morning because I thought he was sleeping as well. And I didn't want to be a jerk and wake him up. I was not sleeping, but I thought you were. So I had two hours in bed to let that keep triggering me. And when we got up at 10, that I said, okay, enough. I need to go to the restroom and I need to get up. I was pissed. I was livid by that time. So everything he did from the moment he jumped out of bed to maybe like half an hour in, I was just nitpicking. I was pissed.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

I felt unheard. It was a repeated pattern.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

She was pissed.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

And I was just upset and I was shut down.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Yeah. And the thing is, after the second time that she nitpicked everything that I did, I lost it. I was like, enough is enough. You go your way, I go my way, and I'm gonna deal with this all day.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

So then he reacted. So we we went through every single pattern. We misunderstood. It was a repeated argument. It was, I felt unheard. He reacted, and then I shut down and I left for a walk.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

And so I say every time we're gonna talk about something on this podcast, I feel like we have to experience it to remember that these patterns are still within us. Yeah. And it it was it was definitely an eye-opener of how quickly that communication struggle can break down.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

It's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

And you know, there's a research from John Gottman that he found something surprising. It's not conflict that predicts divorce, it's how couples handle conflict. Strong marriages still argue, they just repair faster.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

And when I read that, it made me think about in the past when we would have an argument, even something as simple as this, it would last for days for us.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Almost sometimes a week.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

God, and it would take forever for us to get back to that normal routine of being ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Even after we fixed the even after we we used to talk about the problem and kind of like fix it in the beginning, but it was just a little afterwave.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

Yeah. I was just it's like what is it when there's an earthquake that you get those aftershocks? I swear that's how it was for us.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Oh, it was like that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

And now, yeah, yesterday it lasted maybe a couple of hours, but that's because we went our own ways.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

So he went for a walk.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

I went for a walk and I went to my favorite store, and he went to his favorite store, Home Depot.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

So that was therapy for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

And that was therapy for me to just be on this walk. And so then when we came back, then we went to lunch, talked it through, and we were fine. That would have never happened in the past. No, if we would have both been home, I think within half an hour we would have been okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

But back then, because they lasted so long, these struggles lasted so long, these arguments lasted so long. I I do know divorce was brought up a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah. Well, that happened, you know, and and it's certain keys about that, you know, when conflict begins, the brain moves into protection mouth.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Right. Uh so let's say some of the protections are fight, you can fight, you can fly, you can freeze, you can freeze, freeze, or fix.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

You know, instead of listening, understanding, and connect, you normally go to the first four. Yeah. Instead of those.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

And the problem is that our nervous system tries to protect the relationship, but it just makes it worse.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

It really does.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah. And that fight, flight, freeze, or fix, that's such a big thing. Um, in so many ways. I know that some of our conflict has been where I'm trying to talk to you about something and you automatically go into fix mode and you're not even hearing me. Or that fight or flight, you say something and I misunderstand it. And so I'm automatically in fight or flight.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm different when because when we're having an argument, when we used to have an argument back in the day, the strong in in our time in our marriage, the arguments used to be longer than what they were supposed to be. I was in the beginning of the argument, I just want to fix it and get it over and done, fix it, and that's it. But man, you used to show down in certain ways that I was like, okay. If I cannot fix it, well, let's go fight. Let's fight then. Let's fight. Yeah. That's what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

And I would just get him freeze.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

I would just shut down. I mean, now I go for a walk. Back then, I would just shut down and I wouldn't even talk.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Took for hours, took years, and not years, days.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

I mean, it was bad. I I really, I really had that fight, flight, and freeze in place for myself.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

I think listening is one of the biggest ones that we have accomplished, we had accomplished and understanding. And then after that, we did the connecting. I think that in those orders, it matched really well because when you listen, you understand, and when you understand, you can connect with the person. So I've now every time that we have an argument or something like that, I try to listen. I don't have this narrow down and I don't have this to perfection. But most of the times I just want to, I just listen. I just stay quiet. I just listen. By listening, I understand. And by understanding, I can connect with the problem is. And most of the time, problems are not, it's not because you don't feel like that because of the way what's happening in the problem. You feel like that because you know, you sometimes feel like you are not hurt. Although you had to tell me 20 million times, just turn on the alarm clock. But, anyways, that's a story for another time.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Well, it's actually not because that's the story we use. Wow. But for another time. Listening, I think that's one of the biggest things. I know that in our marriage we've struggled with that because you say something and I don't listen. I don't listen to understand, I automatically react. Or vice versa, right? You've done it too, where I'm trying to talk to you about something. And instead of understanding what I'm trying to say or really understanding where it's coming from, yeah, you react. And then that connection is lost.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

At that point.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I know. That's happened, you know. That that communication, that connection between you and me, it can be server just by little things of not listening, not you know, not understanding, and then you're going through all this turmoil for no reason.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Yeah. So there are four communication patterns that damage connection. This is written by John Gottman, and he calls these the four horsemen. They appear in almost every struggling relationship. And even if you're not struggling, like we're not struggling, but some of the stuff still appears in our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I think it's going to show up in every relationship, no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I think it's just being aware. Like I think I love and I tell people this, like we when we talk to our friends about our podcasts, I say this is therapeutic for us. Because even when we're talking about topics, it makes us realize, oh crap, we're still doing some of this stuff. Yeah. You know, I know for me, criticism. That's that's pattern number one is criticism. And it's using those words like you always, you never, or what's wrong with you? And I know that's me. Because, for instance, the shoes, and we've talked about the shoes in the past. I like the shoes put on a rack when we walk into the house.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Well, the rack is not big enough. Shoes there all the time because we use one pair of shoes, we go out, leave it in there. I think we should move all the shoes from the closet and put it in there.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

And here's a perfect example of Omar not listening. And so, even when there is space, Omar likes to leave the shoes on the floor rather than just rack them up. And so I tend to say, Wow, you never or you always and that is just really it's like an unmet need and frustration. It's pure criticism.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

So you are trying to say that to me right now?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

No, babe. I wouldn't understand that. I would never.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

What is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 12:10

So that whole you never listen, what it really means is I don't feel important right now. I don't feel hurt. You hear it as criticism, and I feel it as okay, so I'm not hurt.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

You have to give me a little bit of credit because lately I've been putting the shoes in the rag, and you had noticed that.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

After this, we will go to the locker room and we'll have this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 12:35

All right, I guess we're gonna have a second part, and it's gonna be all you apologizing.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Pattern two, defensiveness. Sounds like that's not true. You do it too, and it's not my fault.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I like that one. You do it too. That's uh that's a tricky one.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

So here's here's an example for me and Omar. Babe, I was trying to tell you something, but you talk so much you didn't hear me, and then he can turn around and say, But you do it too. Sometimes I need to talk to you, and you talk so much you didn't hear me.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

When that happened in the beginning, remember? Yes, yeah, all the time.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

But that is defensiveness, right? It's like, why are you criticizing me? See, I'm hearing criticism, but you do it too. So let's say right now, okay? Here's a perfect example. And I don't I know you guys must be laughing about these stupid shoes situations, but if we go into the laundry room right now and I go to criticize what you always do about leaving your shoes on the floor, and I have a pair of shoes on the floor. Guess what you're gonna say? What you do it too.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

They are your shoes on the floor, you do it too.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

I know.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

So these patterns are so common in marriages that we we laugh at it, right? Like we'll probably go out in the laundry room after this and laugh about it, or we're stop this podcast and we'll laugh about this. But there was a time in our life we wouldn't. This would really be a full-blown argument. Because of that communication struggle.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

Yep, I'll be really serious.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

And so that when you have that whole defensiveness, instead of hearing I hurt you, the brain hears I'm failing you. Yeah, so when I'm saying to Omar, you always do, or I'm saying that's not true, you do it too. What really it's like we're failing each other.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

I know.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

He's failing me, I'm failing him. So these patterns just causes for that pushback. And you know, what sometimes we think, oh, that's these arguments are just stupid words, you know. Oh, you always, you always but think about the time that those words were used towards you.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, it makes any difference.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

It does. And so it's just changing language in a marriage. Yeah, it's like we said, picking those patterns battles.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Stonewalling.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

I think that's yummy.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

So pattern three is stonewalling. That's silence, shutdown, walk away, and emotional responses. I can say I'm probably great at that.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yes, you are.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

You shut down completely.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

I can shut down, which is what happened to me yesterday. That's why I went for a walk. And now my shutdowns are. I mean, if as I was on my walk, he was texting me. And back in the day, I wouldn't even response. Like, I wouldn't even answer his calls. I wouldn't res. I mean, I would just completely shut down. Now at least I responded. Maybe my responses weren't very nice, but I didn't respond. Or I'll answer his call, or I'll say when I came home, I was like, hey, let's go to lunch, let's go talk. But that stonewalling, that's a tough one. Because what it was for me, it was like I was avoiding. I felt overwhelmed over the fight, and I was avoiding.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Sometimes silence isn't distance, it's protection. So it's like me protecting myself from the situation. Yeah. Me protecting myself from arguing.

SPEAKER_02 16:33

That's okay. Sometimes you need protection.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And sometimes it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Of course.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

And this is what I'm gonna say, say to those of you that your spouse is one of those, like just stone walls, just give them that space. Sometimes that's all they need because it's that argument was very overwhelming for them. And they just need to be left alone. Omer now has learned to do that, but in the beginning, when I would shut down that way, oh boy, because he wanted to talk at the moment and he couldn't, he didn't know what to do with me.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Yeah, I didn't like that.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

And since he didn't know what to do with me that like that, then he would become very mean, say things that were mean, and then I would start crying. And when I started crying, that's when he knew I was done and we can talk.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Yeah, but you just showdown really bad. But I your showdown, it was not a one hour or half an hour. Your showdown, it was like days.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

And I was not, no, I'm not gonna go days without you just a wall in there, and I'm just trying to figure it out how I'm gonna go around it.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah, it was a wall of protection I would create. I'm not like that anymore.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Thank God for girls.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I know, Jesus Christ. I know, because I don't know where we would have been if I would have stayed that way. Yeah, that that was a really big struggle for you. Then the last one is contempt, pattern four, and this is the most dangerous pattern. It sounds like sarcasm, eye rolling, mocking, and disrespect and stuff, and that grows when appreciation disappears. Contempt replaces partnership with comparison. So I I don't think we've ever gotten to that point. Now, we do sarcasm is a language in our home, but it's more like funny or we are really sarcastic family.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

That's the truth, that's the bottom line. I mean, we're sarcastic in everything. Um, we never use sarcasm for uh in arguments because we want to get to the point, and I don't think that is helpful. No, being sarcastic in a in in the in the midst of an argument and overheating is is that's not gonna help your situation. Our rolling, we use that not in our fights, we are roll each other all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

All the time, but it's for fighting, just the way it is, and then we just we we do it because we want to make fun of each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

But are we never out rolling in the I mean in our beginning our relationship when we used to be when we used to fight and we used to have arguments and things like that, and it was the one that well, you do it too, and you eye roll your eyes, and I roll my eyes. That's that's normally fine, and I think everybody does. Now, mocking does that one mocking and disrespecting that is just stuff. Yeah, I don't, oh my god, I don't you had never done that to me. And I don't know how I would react if you ever do that to me.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

And If you're but I think it's because from the very beginning we set that boundary. Yeah, we we set a big boundary when it came to disrespect and mocking and doing any of that during an argument. I'm not saying that we've never cussed at each other. I'm not gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

No, you hear me? But it's yeah, but it's never been Oh, cussing is being in the middle of arguments, but I'm not saying we cuss against each other towards each other.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

It's never been to degrade the other. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

I don't know. I mean, if you're gonna if we argue and we said for F's sake, I mean, you know, you threw the word in there, but it never go, it never go across to the other person. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, because I mean we live in a world that who don't don't cost these days, as long as you don't do it against somebody else or that other person. I think mocking, oh my god, if you do that to me one day, to me, that's so degrading.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

So we have never experienced that, but those are things to be those are the things that you need to pay attention to, and those are the things that are really dangerous to me. Those that part number four, it just gotta be careful with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

I'm gonna go over again. So these are four patterns that damage connection. Pattern one was criticism, pattern two was defensiveness, pattern three, stonewalling, slash dying. Yeah, but now I mean we we've had this conversation, and now I can at least say, Okay, babe, hold on. I wasn't done talking, I need you to listen. Yeah, so now we've become open about that.

SPEAKER_02 21:08

We will become more outspoken about that.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Before we used to let it slide. Now, if I go and I start doing that, you automatically be like, hey, just let me finish. Just listen to what I'm saying, let me finish.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

And what they're letting me know is for me to stop and just take time to just listen and just and just on all I want at that moment is to understand.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Because then I need to connect with you so I can hear some of your wisdom. Because you're really good at that. Like, you're really good at giving me a different perspective when I'm in a situation. But when you get into that fixed mode, especially the fixed mode, or if I have a situation with someone and then you take it personal, that always makes me feel unheard. Yeah. Because I'm like, wait, you weren't even there. But that's because you want to fix it and because you want to protect me.

unknown 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

So you take it very personal. And couples don't always want agreement. Like, I don't want you to always agree with me. I just want you to recognize what I'm saying. I want you to understand what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Yeah, you just want me to listen to you. Yes. And just be in there present in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

That's exactly it. Because agreement says you're right, right? That's easy. You hear me out, you're like, oh yeah, you're right. Understanding says I see you. I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

I'm understanding what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah, and by understanding, you know, you build a faster connection.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

That's exactly it. Feeling understood matters more than being right. And that right there, that's huge.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

I don't want to be always right in your ears. I don't always want to be right in a situation.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

You just want to be understood.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

I want you to understand what I'm feeling. And then we can connect.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

But that's because we stopped and listened. And I know that that not being understood really makes me feel unheard. And then what happens? Again, patterns. At that moment, I just shut down. I'm like, okay, go ahead, have the conversation, have at it.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Or lately you said to me, well, you had learned to say, when I take over the conversation, that I want to fix it, or that I just, you know, I want to find a solution. And I'm done talking, I'm looking at you, and you look at me, and you're like, well, you pretty much said it the whole entire you just have a conversation by yourself. So I don't have nothing I want to say. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Just like yes. Yes. I have, but we've learned to respect each other in the sense that even when I am very vocal and outright about you not hearing me, we don't end up in an argument.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

No.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Because you've gotten to an understanding that that's a pattern.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

And I do it sometimes too. Sometimes you're talking about something and I interrupt you and I put in my two cent. I mean, it happens because we are all creatures that we just want to make our point.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

We all want to be heard. And since we are trying to be heard, we don't listen.

SPEAKER_02 24:21

Well, let me correct something that you say, right? Okay, go for it. You say, well, we interrupt. I think you and me, we interrupt each other in every conversation that we have. What we're talking about is just taking over the conversation and just trying to just run with it. You're not even let the person finish. I didn't let you finish. And I just took over and just had like 15-20 minutes, just pretty much saying what I have done, what I should do, what you should do, the way you should handle the situation. And you're just sitting in a car, like, because most of the conversation happened pretty much when we drive, and you're just looking at me like, you're not even letting me finish talking. So the interruption, I think, is not a problem. Because if you have something, an idea that you can say in the moment, you say your idea and you just shut up and just keep going, is when you take over the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

And your story becomes more important than the story that your partner is saying to you. Like my story, what I gotta say is more important than what you have to say. So just let me tell you how to do it. Let me tell you how to fix it. Let me just that's what I'm I think that's what you're trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So through my life experiences and my family and whatnot, right? When I think about all my life experiences and I think about what is the one thing that drives me crazy communicating with certain people? And it's when I'm trying to say a story or I'm trying to share an experience I just had. And the person I'm talking to seems to have the exact same experience that same day, and they take over the conversation, and then everything you were trying to say or express or put out there just completely falls to the wayside, and that person, and then just becoming about that person's problem or that person's not even problem. It could be a celebration.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

I haven't experienced that. You're not experienced that with me. You may we should be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

I don't experience that with you, no, but I have experienced that throughout my lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

Yeah, and I think one of the things that we have learned to do ourselves is what we call the five-minute listening reset.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

And you know, especially me, I have to do this myself. You know, I let my I let you speak and say what you gotta say. Not only that, but when the part when you're speaking and I'm in silence, it allows me to reflect in what you're saying and allow me to just listen. And as for that, I can say something better, yeah, more meaningful, or something that is actually gonna be productive to the issues that you're going through in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

So I'm gonna explain this five-minute listening reset. Yeah, so the speaker can start something off like something that's been on my mind lately is, and the listener only responds with what I'm hearing you say is not put in their two cent, not share their own story, not share their own experience, not try and fix it, but literally just say, This is what I hear you saying. You are not defending, you are literally just reflecting what that person is saying. That reflection lowers nervous system threat response, and then it increases connection. For you as a listener, your job isn't to solve the problem, your job is to understand the person you're listening to. Yeah, and then you can do it the other way around. The other way around the person. Then you take then the other person becomes the speaker, and the other, you know, the spouse becomes the listener. This makes a huge difference because this helps to start building that understanding and the connection, and that helps to start listening. Yeah. I went to a retreat, it was a women's retreat, and I remember one of the things that they taught us on that retreat was how to listen. And we were talking about grieving, and it was one of those situations where someone was grieving something, and you're listening, and one of the examples that they showed is like, oh, I understand. When I grieved so-and-so, and what they were showing is that sometimes someone doesn't even want to hear that when they're in the midst of their own grieving, they just want to be listened to, they just want you to listen. And that for me, really like because I know I've done that, I've had people share a story with me, and I'm like, oh, well, let me tell you about I I completely understand what you're going through.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

I've done that to you.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yes, I completely understand because I went through la da da da da, and then it completely shuts down what you're saying. So this is a huge way and a great way to learn those listening skills.

SPEAKER_02 29:14

Yeah, because if you're going through something like that and somebody was like, Well, let me tell you, and it's like, well, what I'm saying is not important to you. Why your experience is more important than my experience? Well, guess what? You're not going through it right now. I am.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah. So that's one. That's that five-minute listening reset. And this is another practical exercise that you can do. And this is called the re weekly repair conversation. And you ask each other the following questions. Did anything hurt you this week that we didn't talk about? Did anything make you feel especially supported this week? And is there anything you need more of me, more from me right now? So I'm gonna go ahead and repeat that. Did anything hurt you this week that we didn't talk about? Did anything make you feel specially supported this week? And is there something you need more from me right now? And I know we've done not the exact questions or in the exact pattern, but we have asked all these questions at some point in our marriage in our marriage and in our conversations, and that has made such a huge impact on us. I remember we used to make it a a note that we would go out every month, and the one question we always asked, Is there something you need more from me right now? Yeah, and that was a big one for us because we would we would it would like open each other's eyes on that reflection. The psychology behind this is that this repairs conversations to prevent resentment buildup. And strong marriages build faster repair often. Yeah. It's not to be perfect, it is not to be, it is just to learn to start opening up those communication skills.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

The goal of communication isn't winning argument, is protecting connection.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

So most people don't need better words, they just need a safer conversation. So you can ask yourselves or ask each other this tonight. When do you feel most understood by me? This question changes communication patterns immediately. It's not about getting it perfect. Because for sure we know we don't.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

No, definitely none.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

But it is definitely about improving communication within your marriage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

And I love this quote from John Gunman. And successful couples are not those who avoid conflict, but those who repair quickly.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

And that's exactly it. It's that repairing quickly. Exactly. So thank you guys for another episode with Still Churchill. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Before we end, take a breath.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

You don't have to fix anything tonight.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

If something in this episode stirred emotions, that doesn't mean something is wrong with you or your marriage.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

It means something matters.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

You're allowed to take what helped and leave the rest.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

You are allowed to go slow.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

If staying feels heavy right now, you're not alone in that.

SPEAKER_02 32:12

And if listening brought a little bit of clarity or relief, we are honored to see here with you.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Thank you for trusting us with your story, even the parts you didn't say out loud.

SPEAKER_02 32:24

We are still here.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

And we're glad you are too much.