Is Spring Hockey Worth It? MidStates Changes & Youth Hockey Debate

Is Spring Hockey worth it? What’s changing with MidStates? And what are coaches, parents, and players really seeing right now in youth hockey?

In this episode of 2 Many Men on the Mic, Drew and Jared go back to basics—no guests, just real conversation about Spring Hockey, MidStates partnership updates, and the biggest trends shaping youth hockey today.

We break down:

• The real cost and value of Spring Hockey
• What families should consider before committing
• Updates and perspectives on MidStates hockey
• Honest opinions designed to spark debate across the hockey community

If you're a hockey parent, coach, or player, this episode gives you a grounded, real-world take on what’s happening right now in youth hockey.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:54

It is the second week of August. Not August, April. I'm jumping ahead. You know what? I want that nice weather to be in front of us because it was cold today, but it's the second week of April. And you know what that means. That means playoff hockey is literally right around the corner for NHL teams. And uh teams are trying to make a run of it. Uh what are the Red Wings uh looking like it down the stretch?

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Crap. Terrible weekend. Uh, you know, you have uh a game on uh Saturday against the New York Rangers where they just folded like a like like a tent. Um and then Sunday they play back to back. They've got the wild in, and uh they go up one nothing, then they go down four-one. Kurill the thrill, two goals. I did see um the wings come back tied up 4-4. Two minutes and a handful of seconds left in the game. Patty Kane. He even admitted it. He's like, I was trying to run interference. I got a little excited. Trips, Quinn Hughes, Kyrill Caprizov, Hatrick, 5-4 loss. So they're playing tonight, um, which we're recording here on the 7th. This will drop live on the 9th. So, you know, don't get mad at the host if uh the wings actually miraculously are back in the playoffs by the time this goes live, but I'm doubting it. So they're 2-2 right now against Columbus, uh, who's also in a free fall. Um, so misery loves company. But uh, I mean, the odds of March, man. I don't know what is wrong with this team other than they have not addressed uh a second line center. Um, and uh every year it's it's like you know, Yogi Berra, St. Louis native Yogi Berra. Um yeah, yeah, St. Louis uh Yogi Berra. Um Aja Vu all over again. Last four years, they've been in a playoff spot heading into March. Last four years, they've missed the playoffs. So I don't know. I mean, they were in first place in January, but I'll I'm I'm I digress.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Well, we're trying to do a repeat of last year and be relevant down the last, oh, I don't know, 10 games of the year. So we currently sit, I'm pretty sure, about three points outside of the last wild card spot. And we've made a commitment to young legs, and young legs means that we've had some interesting combinations, and we sure have found a good one between Thomas, Snuggerood, and Holloway.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

I told you they were they won the hotel.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I told you that lines uh in the NHL, I think coming out of the Olympics, and uh they just keep delivering. Uh they have a big uh effort ahead of them tonight. Uh rematch against Colorado after beating 3-2 uh two nights ago. So we'll see what happens, but uh it's spring hockey. It is spring hockey, and and that's a uh great segue into uh our topics for this evening. We're talking about spring youth hockey, and uh this is the first show in quite some time that we haven't had a guest on. I mean, we're going back to old days, we're going back to the beginning of the Too Many Men on the Mic show where we would just sit here and talk about hockey.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Well, what's great is we started this show and um we felt we had a modicum of expertise when it came to playing, coaching, parenting, administering hockey. Administering hockey, that sounds like something you do when somebody's hurt. Administering CPR. I'm administering hockey because this this this this kid's life needs to get better. We're gonna administer hockey. I love it. Um, but you know, what we have gained in a lot of insight and knowledge and and outright thievery as coaches over the last uh you know 10 months now is um you know not just our own opinions that have been forged in the crucible of youth hockey over the past decade.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Crucible, big word.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

There we go. Good book, too. Um, yeah, yeah, mom. I read that book when I was a kid. Um but you know, I I think that especially as we look at spring hockey, it's all over the place. There's a a um a smorgasborg of that's another big word. That's right. That's a scrabble, um, which I'm terrible at. I hate scrabble. I wish Scrabble were math. Um, but there's a there's so much that is out there. There's so many offerings as a player, as a parent, you know, it's kind of like you you have this situation where it's literally do I take out another mortgage and do these 10 spring programs so that I can, you know, my kid, he or she can play on the team that they want in the regular season.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Um, and to I don't know what team to play on and how does spring hockey work?

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Yeah, and what's and I think I think with should I even play spring hockey? Yeah, and everything goes back to distilling it down to you know goals and outcomes.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

And I do think that this rolls back to um the speedish conversation. Absolutely, man. Absolutely a good reminder. I I feel like I say it at least once a week. You're not done developing as a hockey player until you are 23. I'm gonna say it again. You're not done developing as a hockey player until you're 23. So there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing baseball. Uh, we know a goalie. Uh both of us that's playing baseball this season.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Another one playing lacrosse, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Lacrosse, uh, track, uh, play another sport. Look, there's nothing wrong with that. So let's let let's lower the pressure a little bit uh on the expectations around spring programming. There's also a camp out there that is the jockeying for position, which is if I don't do things in spring, then that means X for my kid in the fall. And so I don't want to be that parent. I don't want to have that guilt. I don't want to look back six months after the fact once we roll into August and September, when suddenly there's 60 practices and games that are uh uh blowing up on my phone, and I'm getting my schedule and saying, Boy, I wish I would have done something different in spring. So it truly runs the gamut of there's I I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

With everything, it comes down to the individual kid, the individual player. Um, I will say that um there's something to be said for wanting to stay on the ice um maybe once a week, maybe twice a week. Um you know I think if you are paying more for spring hockey than you are for regular season, like there might be an opportunity to evaluate. Maybe that maybe there is a very valid reason. Um, maybe you have a player who is you know on the cusp or is on competitive teams at the central states level, and they want to try and make the blues or they want to try and make car shield. Well, it would make sense that you are you know going to go to one of those programs, spring programs, because you know, as with anything, getting familiar with an environment and letting that environment, i.e., the coaches, get familiar with you is not a bad thing. And you're gonna be playing against generally, you're gonna be playing against you know, players who have a skill set that allows you to measure yourself. What I would caution against is the player who decides that, hey, I need to, and a lot of this comes down to let's be honest, I don't know if I'm gonna make a team. I'm hedging my bets. I want to try and you know play for all these different programs. Um, and there's very few kids that can do that successfully and not have something else fall off, whether it's school, whether it's um, you know, the uh opportunity to play other sports and develop other aspects of your, you know, get a little scientific here, muscle physiology that you're not using in, you know, in in hockey. Maybe you should be playing lacrosse, maybe you should be playing baseball, soccer. I I I just feel like a lot of this is parent FOMO.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And uh, you know, it's it gets exacerbated because you know, you've got text messages. That's a big word, exacerbated. I can't spell that word. EX baited. You've got text, you've got phone calls, you've got people that are doing the compare. Uh, well, what's your kid sign up? Well, my kid signed up for this. Well, she he or she said their kids signed up for this, so we have to do this. It kind of reminds me of like, remember when Taylor Swift, when she wasn't quite so big, I don't remember anything about Taylor Swift. We'd come, would come my nieces lover, I don't know much about her. We'd come to any town for a concert, and then people would say, Oh, we're going to the Taylor Swift show. And so then it was kind of fear of missing out on gosh, we got to get Taylor Swift tickets.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Uh Drew has a daughter, I do not.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, yeah. But I, you know, I I guess it runs the gamut. There's everything from play another sport to why are you signing up, uh, your kid on multiple teams to hedging your bets, uh, to getting to know coaches because maybe you've uh maybe you're at the end of a journey with a coach that you've been with for a period of time, and so suddenly you have a new person. And those are good reasons to think about. Well, we want to give our kid and give us the opportunity to experience what it's like to play with a coach and see how see how our kid likes it.

SPEAKER_02 11:21

Yeah, there's there's nothing wrong with any of that if if the kid is, as we like to say on this show, driving the bus. Hey, mom, hey dad, I want to go play for X team. Right. Um, maybe they have some friends who've gotten together and they said, Hey, we're gonna we want to go play with these guys in the spring, or I want to check this out. A lot of this happens in between the the pee-wee, the banham, the ban on the midget years because you have roster expansions, all of a sudden you've got um opportunity to to kind of yeah to look over the over the fence and say, Okay, what's it like over there? That's normal. But what I what I have seen is I've seen some families, you know, have their kids on you know elite for one program and then a spring program, and then we're gonna travel on this tournament team. And I'm just like, man, you just got through playing hockey four to five days a week, whether it's through practice and games, in tournaments. Um, and you just spent the better part of your winter in in a cold ice cube. Now, look, I'm a hockey coach, I'm a hockey junkie, I have a hockey podcast. I'm coaching two teams right now, so maybe I'm not the best person to wag my finger at anyone. But I do think that um I think there's an opportunity to take a step back because here's the here's the reality. If your player is, and if you're listening to us on Spotify, quote unquote, air quotes here, um, good enough to make a team, they're gonna be in the running and win trial to her. Whether they, you know, and and and there's always a kid, you know, who shows up who the coach is like, where'd this kid come from? Right every year. And you know why the coach is saying, Where'd this kid come from? Because she was playing lacrosse, she was playing softball, he was playing soccer, right? And it's like, wow, I didn't even know this kid existed, but they're talking to their friends, maybe they're skating at stick and pucks, they're out there playing, maybe they're playing roller hockey in the street or ball hockey, and and there's just you know, roller hockey is another big thing, which again, you know.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

No, no, that I've I there are multiple uh kids I know, just their parents I know that uh are playing inline. Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Play it.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Play.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

And and I do think um, but I just I just when when you're having to get a executive assistant to manage your calendar for your kids' spring hockey, that to me just feels like, you know, okay, what's the goal? Well, my goal is I want little Johnny or Julie to be on the best team. What is that? What does that even mean?

unknown 14:12

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Does it mean like the highest level? Well, that might not be the best team for them. You know, why do you want them on the on a you know, if they're going into midget hockey where you're definitely gonna have you know the potential for shortened benches and you know your development may not be what you thought, you know, these years are you and I have going through and I are going through this with our 18-year-olds, you've gone through it with your 18-year-old. These years are precious. Yeah, like there's so much else going on. I just feel like there's an opportunity to take a step back, evaluate what your goals are for hockey, and and just be like, hey, I do want to keep skating in the spring, but maybe not every night.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

And and I think there's noise in the environment too. Uh I'll give you an example. Uh USA hockey, uh, we love them. Uh, we're uh love Bob Ancini and his team and love all the contributions. But the reality is if you are a uh a triple A team, yeah, the minute after nationals are done, which just happened recently, then now they're gonna reach out to kids. Yeah, so I guess I'm only bringing that up to say we have um an entity that's a core part of our environment that is sending a signal out to all of the parents that boy, we're gonna do it right after national. So we're gonna be talking to people in April. And so I just wonder if that creates a degree of anxiety for some parents that are out there that are saying, Well, you would say hockey's doing it, and kids that are in triple A are being reached out into April. And so I've got to get as far ahead as I can and put my kid on a path. So I better put him on a path in April, otherwise, that might mean that I might miss out. My Johnny or Julie might miss out.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

So I think two things are are are true and not mutually exclusive. Um, it is inherent for USA hockey or hockey Canada or Sweden, Swedish Federation, or Swedish, Swedish. It is inherent for these programs to identify um their top-level talent and highest competitors. And so you have central districts here, and you have you know districts, districting happening all over the country that is trying to build these teams that are trying to compete and understand, okay, where are where do our next crop of um you know high level, whether it's the NTDP, whether it's USHL, it's an I opportunity to identify these kids. Those kids have been identified. Um, and there's always kids that you know raise their hand and want to go try it out and do that, and that's good too. You can do that, and you can also say, look, the 95% of our participants are going to love this game, be recreational hockey players, and we're gonna make them incrementally better, exactly, incrementally better by um offering them opportunities to continue to skate with their local clubs, but also like go do other things. I mean, Sidney Crosby went to Shaddock St. Mary's. Might have heard of it, might have heard this guy. Shaddock in the springtime, they had to play baseball. Shaddock was like, Yeah, you you're here. Obviously, you know, you can you're here to play hockey, but in the springtime, you're a student, you're gonna play baseball. Right. So they played baseball. He and Eric Johnson are on that team. Um, Eric Johnson, former first-round draft pick for the St. Louis Blues, Stanley Cup winner for Colorado Avalanche.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

He actually was on the broadcast the other night, and I just have to say, did an outstanding job being uh the guy between the glass the other night in the Colorado St. Louis game.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah, he's a he's he's he's an he is it Eric Johnson or is it there was two Johnsons, one of them was Sid Abel's grandson. Little throwback to yeah, so I'm trying to remember who it was. Yeah, dig deep. But anyways, I digress. There's absolutely nothing wrong with trying to, as a player and as a parent, helping to ask your player, hey, do you want to try out for this team? Do you want to see how you compete and how you compare to these kids, players who have been identified at as a top level, and at the same time be able to like step back. Hang, I mean, Wayne Gretzky used to put the skates away and go play baseball all summer long. You might have heard of his work. He's he's uh he's right here if you're watching us on TV.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

I think that's a great lesson. Yeah, so you know, that's a way to kind of bring the pressure down, and uh but then I can hear people out there saying, Well, well, that was in the 70s. Sure, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:06

Sure. Well, you know, I'll give you a better so travel a lot to Chicago over the years. There's this rink, there's yeah, there's this rink uh in in kind of downtown Chicago called Johnny's Icebox. Don't park your car at all. Do not park your car uh then you know, try to to fill up get get your gas before you go.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

And good luck parking in that garage.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Yeah, that garage is, but anyways, there's uh as you're walking into the uh the laboratory, um, there's a poster with Joe Pavelski, and it talks about all the things Joe Pavelski did. Joe Pavelski was a golfer, he played football, he played basketball, he played baseball, and he played hockey. Joe Pavelski is one of the greatest American hockey players of all time. Just recently retired, so you can't tell me that, you know, one of the greatest tippers of all time, too.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

That guy could have to be a big one. Oh, I don't know what the waitresses say, but yeah, could tip a puck from virtually anyone.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Quick story about Joe Pavelski. Um, so I'm at a camp called Hockey and Sons uh back in 2019. Um he's there with his son. We're up in where and uh you know, they get the dads together to play these games at night.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Let me guess. This was in Michigan.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

No, it was in Minnesota. Wow, it lets you in. I was coming from St. Gustafus Adolphus, great college campus, anyways. So we're getting the guys, you know, the players together, and Joe's just like he's a great tipper. Um, he's also hitting the crossbar from the red line without without even thinking about it. He's just taking shots from the red line, hitting the crossbars going ping. And I'm like, yeah, I don't want to play against Joe. Um, but the point is, um, look, there is nothing wrong with playing spring hockey, doing spring programs to keep yourself um uh in shape for hockey, to keep those to keep that muscle memory and to get and to get better and improve your skills. What I would caution parents from doing is getting um, you know, oh, I've gotta be on this program and I've got to be on this program, and I've got to be on this program. Um, I gotta get to, you know, things have a way of always working their way themselves out. And, you know, whether you're in uh a youth hockey organization and you're going through the evaluations and you're like, you know, my kid needs to be on this team. Maybe he or she doesn't make that team this year, but they end up having this great season because they things start to work themselves out. And honestly, the players they know they they tend to kind of, you know, as they get older, they have all these other opportunities. Um there is in St. Louis, we're we're we're fortunate where we also have high school hockey for the spring that helps to develop kids that maybe aren't the elite status player. Absolutely. Um, and it's very laid back, it's very let's let's work on aspects of the game that can help you get better, and I think it all goes back to what's the outcome you are expecting. If you're expecting to make a team because you're spending X amount of dollars, well, if you go out there, the reality is this most coaches who are coaching teams, they're not gonna cut too many players that they had on the team last year for a variety of reasons. Um there's always gonna be opportunity. I think the outcome needs to be how can I, if I'm gonna go and play for these these other programs, how am I gonna improve my game? Um how am I gonna have fun? And part of that fun is being able to, you know, measure myself every week incrementally against these kids who have who are who who maybe are considered to be you know a step or a half step or maybe even two steps ahead of you on that on that uh development continuum. But there but there's always a place to play. And things have a way of working themselves out. They just do. And you know, there's a lot of drama involved with it. And I just think that you know, you'll have a much more healthy, happier spring if you start with a plan with the end in mind first. What's what do I want my outcome to be when it's May 31st, June 1st, at the end of spring?

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Well, and to your point though, what is the player's plan? Right, right, not you as mom and dad. What is the players' plan? So sit and talk with your kid. And you know, we're already right around the corner from a lot of these spring programs starting. So a great time to have those conversations if you haven't had them already, uh, is in the car. You know, what are you thinking? What are you trying to do? What do you want out of spring hockey? Uh, is it to get to know a coach? Is it uh to um play with kids that maybe are at a higher level to push you and drive you? Is it simply to have fun? Is it uh to develop skill and put yourself in a forum with coaches that can help you uh develop some incremental skills? So these are all questions, but it is about the player driving the bus. Uh and certainly at the Bannham and midget levels for younger kids, then that's you know a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Minute of play in this period.

SPEAKER_02 24:43

I'll I'll end with this anecdotal, this not an anecdotal story, this actual story. The names will will be anonymized to protect the uh the non-innocent. Um as these players get to 16U and then 18U, it does become um it does become there the stakes are raised. And the and what I mean by that is both at here in St. Louis, the central states level and the AAA level, many of these kids are going on to play junior hockey um or ACHA hockey. Um, and so they have a you know, whether they were identified when they were, you know, 14, 15 years old, or whether they've they've just said, hey, I want to do this, because that they are they all they find each other and they're out there training together for the most part. And that's just natural. We have a player in high school who's got two really good friends that were on one of those high-level teams. This player did not have any designs to make one of those high-level teams, but he wanted to be the best he could possibly be for his senior year in high school. So he went out there and he skated twice a week with those players to challenge himself and get better. And he did. And so to me, that is a you have to understand your player and where your player, what your player's desires are, and where he or she wants to go over the the the next season and then beyond. If it's a matter of I want to challenge myself to get better at these three things, and if I'm out here, you know, skating by myself, or if I'm out here, you know, kind of without as much structure, then I'm not gonna get better. So I'm gonna challenge myself to go to one of these programs with no intent of trying out for a team, but to make myself better for my my season, whether it's for high school or club in the fall, that's that's wonderful. And that's a that's a great reason. If if it's if you're 13, 14 years old and you're trying to um market yourself more than you are trying to improve yourself, then I think you just have to make sure that um that you're not set in a situation up where that you're hating hockey uh when you're 16, 17, 18 years old. And I'll leave it at that. Well said. Well, that segment of Too Many Men on the Mike was brought to you by 5B Designs. St. Louis hockey families and business leaders. If you need custom gear that stands out and stands for something, it's time to meet 5B Designs. Founded by Shannon Brahini, a proud St. Louis mom and entrepreneur. 5B Designs is a woman-owned small business that brings purpose to custom apparel. Whether you're suiting up your youth or high school hockey team or leveling up your company's branded swag, 5B delivers top-notch quality with a personal touch. If you need a team store, no problem. Corporate polos or event giveaways, they've got you covered. 5B makes it easy with fast turnaround, flexible service, and designs your players or employees will love to wear. Check them out at stores.inksoft.com forward slash 5B Designs. That's the word five. And if you're watching us on YouTube, please go ahead and scan the QR code on your screen in the top right corner and see what great gear and great service looks like. Real quick, folks, before we jump back into the show, if you're enjoying Too Many Men on the Mic, hit like and subscribe on your YouTube channel. It's a quick click for you, but it helps us grow the show and keep bringing you great hockey conversations. You can also follow us on Instagram by scanning the QR code on the top right corner of your screen. And be sure to download, follow, and rate the podcast on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. You can find all of our links if you go directly to our website, www.toomanymen on the mic.com. That's the number two. Those small things from you help us keep delivering new guests, downloadable coaching content, and more from the rink. All right, back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

We're back talking spring hockey because it's April.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

It's April.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Right. What else will we be talking about?

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Now that I've alienated, you know, half of our audience. By the way, come to the Ledoux Spring Hockey. And Eagle Spring Hockey.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Well, because we're in spring hockey, we can't not talk about uh mid-states. Yeah on the back of a uh a great journey of high school hockey. And I know we've got listeners from other states that are out there, but uh here in St. Louis we have uh mid-states, which is our governing body around high school hockey. And for the first time this year, uh, and we were an intimate part of it, we got to do the uh mid-states game of the week. Uh, I kind of think of it and still think of it this way is uh I love football. And you know, football, there's always a game of the week. There's always kind of a showcase game. And way back in the day, it used to be Monday night, and then it became Sunday night, and then it became the, I don't know, the Fox Joe that Troy Aikman was on. And so mid-states, to their credit, was like, you know what, we want to showcase these kids. And I feel like we had great representation amongst the three different conferences that were out there. Uh, we had a uh a pro crew that was uh announcing the games uh that was entertaining and engaging and fun. And uh we got to interview the coaches and the players and and give them some love and some roundtables as we got closer to the playoffs. So uh uh I think there was a lot of good momentum. We got some good numbers. So I think numbers. I know uh Coach Jared's got the uh the the metrics at hand, but uh, but we had some good data that came out of it and uh looking forward to rolling that in the next year.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Well, if you think about it, you know, we we we broadcast 13 um games of the week, which I think worked out to be um 23 different teams. It wasn't 26 because there were a couple of repeats in there, but 23 different teams. So that's 23 different fan bases. So in the regular season, we we had over um we had over 12,500 people here in St. Louis, different sets of eyes on those games. So, you know, it's super super exciting. I think it was actually it was closer to 13,000 different unique views of those 13 games. And if you think about it again, you've got you know, you're probably not gonna be watching uh Ledou Clayton if your child goes to Marquette, just not gonna happen because you're probably gonna be at the Marquette game because that's where they're playing. But then we get into the playoffs, and then we get into the the final rounds for the founders, the wick. Um we were averaging in each one of those games until the final the semifinals and finals, we were averaging 700 views of those games. So that's beyond just you know the fans watching. That's people watching to see, hey, um, you know, we can't be at this game, but if these guys win, we're gonna play them. And so you start playing that game. And you know, I'm so excited to be able to hopefully partner again with mid-states next year and this next season. You get into the semifinals and you get into the finals, we're talking in viewership in the thousands. I think we had close to 2,000 people watch the founders cup final between um between Sekman and uh I'm drawing a blank here. It was between Sekman and um Holt. And then we had over, I think we had over 4,000 people who watched the Wickenheiser Cup final between Priory and Summit. Some of the viewership fell off because that was a bit of uh that was a bit of a you know, priory put uh put a bit of a wagon train on Summit from the second period on. But then we get to the Challenge Cup final, overtime game. Oh, yeah, Shamanade de Smet, 11,000 views. Yeah, so between the regular season, between the playoffs, we're talking well over almost 30,000 views of high school hockey in St. Louis. And the coolest part about it, if you ask me, is the personalities we got to know. Oh, absolutely. Um the kids were phenomenal, and we are going to have some of those kids who are graduating seniors on this show to talk about their journey because I think that that is something that is a great opportunity to highlight them, but it's also an opportunity to go to that eight-year-old, ten-year-old, twelve-year-old hockey player and show them, hey, this is this is why this sport's so much fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

Well, yeah, and I think about the younger brother or sister or cousin or nephew or niece, and I just wonder with those kinds of views, if there were some kids right now that are sitting out here at this time in spring and thinking about, you know what, I'd like to be a hockey player. Yeah. And I'd be interested in trying that out. So uh hopefully we've grown some love of the game.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

That's a great reason to do spring hockey, by the way. I want to try hockey to start. That's a great in fact, if you look at the vast majority of potential and actual hockey players, youth hockey players, that's the best reason, I think, to play spring hockey.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

I want to try hockey. I've never played hockey before. I want to play perfect timing. Perfect timing. Um, you know, we look at mid-states here, and and obviously you and I have uh uh have have developed a unique relationship with mid-states through the show and the partnership, also because we are high school coaches. Yeah, there is I I think mid-states, and again, we're gonna we may we may alienate some folks here. That's okay. It's okay. We all all voices are welcome, just so happens that my voice is here. Um I think mid-states over the next couple years has a is has a huge opportunity to to elevate um elevate the the league and create a destination for for all players, not just your your high-level players, but also those players who are excellent athletes at other sports. And I think that you know it kind of coincides with what's going to be happening with the National Development League.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, because if you're a National Development League player, you're not gonna be able to play.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Yep. And so so again, you know, for all those folks who are national and in our international audience, they've probably just they probably just shut off the the the uh the Spotify or the YouTube thanks. We got hopefully we got you know, thanks for for listening into the first period of our show. But here in St. Louis, um, yeah, I mean traditionally and again, this is all in the this will be happening in other markets too around the absolutely, absolutely it's gonna happen in every at in all 32 cities where there's an NHL team, there's gonna be what they have in this national development team, which is at I believe the 18U and no, I'm sorry, 17 17 and 15. So they're gonna they're gonna have these birth, these, these birth year ages, you know. 17U traditionally has been a combined birth year with 18U. That's not gonna be the case. 15U um for central states and for for for tier two and tier tier uh one has been separated, but those kids now are not gonna be playing mid-states hockey, which is kind of heartbreaking in a lot of ways, because but at the same time, you know, I would argue that some of those kids are going to elect to play mid-states or to play high school over because they're gonna see, hey, what what's my end game here? Again, talking about outcomes and talking about having a plan.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah, and I you know, I just I've heard it, I've heard it from kids directly. You've got kids that have been playing hockey for a long time, multiple years, let's say. Uh, and if you sit and you sit down with them and you talk to them when they're 15, 14 years old, um, and you say, uh, what do you like? How do you like playing high school hockey? They really like playing high school hockey, they really like playing with their friends. And so, you know, for the triple A coaches out there, I know, go ahead and shoot me. You don't like high school hockey, you've got to do your 10 to 11 games, and that's all you're gonna get playing on your high school team because the rest of the time you're on triple A hockey. But let's not forget that these kids, this game's about fun. And these kids have fun when they're playing with their friends, and their friends are the kids that they go to school with, and so it's that balance. But to your point, now you've got you know some kids that aren't going to be able to play uh high school. Uh so what's the positive? The glass half full. Now you have opportunity. You have opportunity for potentially one or two, maybe a couple more players to be able to step up, have a bigger uh uh hand in the game, have a bigger role on a team that maybe they didn't have last year because suddenly there's uh uh opportunity that's available to them.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

So we just got back from nationals um for for Brendan's team. Um thank you, thank you. Uh like that? Like well, it wasn't an applause because they didn't win, but it was like, hey, you got recognition for going. Um we played against a team from Minnesota, and I always love when you go to these these the because this is the second time you know one of Brennan's teams has made nationals, and you go to these these tournaments.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

How old were the Minnesota kids?

SPEAKER_02 39:10

By the way, they were 18U.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Oh, they were there. They're all because you know Minnesota plays by their own set of rules.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

Well, you hear well you sure they weren't like 20? Well, a couple of them might have been. They I think they you know they drove up and had a mortgage. Um at a baby. No comment. Um, but they all had different helmets and different gloves on. You know why? Because they all played, they played from August to October with this team Minnesota, this club team, and then from October to literally the the the end of the middle of March, they were playing high school hockey. Yeah, and it started started me thinking mid-states, if they do that in Minnesota because Minnesota has created a culture where high school hockey is a destination. Yep, you can play high school hockey and you can go do tournaments, you can go do showcases, you can go and play juniors the next year. Um, and I know talking to some coaches and talking to some you know folks around town here with different high schools, that's always been like this pipe dream is like, wow, wouldn't it be great if we could create this level of not intensity because mid-states high school is plenty intense, but create this environment of we aren't as mid-states as a high school hockey program, we're gonna be on par with I I would say if I'm a mid-states um you know uh board member or a varsity or junior varsity director at mid-states, I want to create an environment where mid-states is a developmental program for these for hockey players who one maybe don't want to and maybe can't afford to travel 15 to 20 times a year, um, but still have this ability and desire to play hockey at the highest level possible for them. So why can't we say, let's develop our coaches, let's create an environment where um we're gonna put our foot down. If we all say, and everyone you talk to to a person will say, God, the kids love playing mid-states more than they love playing for their club teams. Because on Friday nights or Saturday nights when they got a packed arena and they see all their friends from school in the stands. Well, if you create an environment where you you make mid-states a destination, and I'm not saying you have to say it's mid-states or bust, but let's start creating the expectation that you know what, you're not gonna miss a game. And what's in it for you as a player? Well, we're gonna hold our coaches to the highest standards possible to make sure that they're running practices and they're putting in um a commitment to not just going out there with you know men's league light, but we're actually gonna coach hockey at the highest level we possibly can.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Hey, I still play men's league.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

I do too. And you know what? I love men's league, but in high school, but we're not banners or midgets. We're not banners or midgets, and you know, and so I look at it, and that's not a that's not saying that I think mid-states is phenomenal, but I think that there's this opportunity now that USA hockey and you know the local triple-A teams are going to have these kids who are gonna be forced to make a choice, and not all of them are going to make it, right? And so some of those that don't make it are gonna try and go catch on with a team in Nashville or a team in Chicago or a team in uh Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Leave town.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

And why not figure out a way to keep those kids here? And when they say, well, why should we stay? Well, we're gonna create a situation where you're gonna get the best coaching possible, you're gonna be uh we're gonna hold these teams to a certain standard. We're gonna allow for maybe once a year you go to a high school showcase or a high school tournament in August, September, and October. I mean, there's gotta be a way. I just see this as an opportunity, and everybody can win. I think the players that make the NDL and that whole process, those kids are on the on our are gonna be on a phenomenal path. I think USA hockey does is gonna do a great job there.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

But I just but 99% of our listening audience of players play in youth hockey are not going to the NDL.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

No, they're not. And even even the even the the one percent that are playing triple A, half of them aren't going to the NDL either. That's right. That's and that's my point here. It's like, let's keep these kids from trying to travel all around the country to catch on to an NDL team.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

You know what? And that it's interesting talking about, you know, now we've added another layer. And and and now that we've added another layer, I do agree with you though. Then that's like we'll we'll Well, why? What's the purpose? And maybe the why and what's the purpose is look what's in your right backyard. Look at what's right in your backyard. You have a high school team that you're a part of. And uh, how can you uh uh be a bigger part of that organization? And uh how can you as an organization support your players at even a higher level? Because now we've introduced another layer uh uh in in the expectation. But again, 90 plus percent of hockey players out there aren't even thinking about AAA and uh and NDL. So uh uh I I like what you're selling. You're selling uh uh Don't Forget About Your High School and dig into that community. And we are different than Minnesota, and uh uh and and so I don't know that we're gonna solve that on this show with restructuring the mid-state season. Uh but what does uh uh what what is gonna happen come next fall is you're gonna have spots that are available, and maybe a spot or two that you didn't have uh prior.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Well, and I and look, I think that when you have a mixture of players at of all abilities and ages, you know, you're gonna have kids in some instances that are five years apart, senior and freshman, depending on when birth dates fall throughout the year. If you hold these teams to a standard, and obviously it's there's only so much mid-states can do, but there there are if you talk to these coaches and you talk to these boards and you say, Hey, let's let's try and steer this in a direction where we don't have to tell kids that they have to play mid-states. The kids are like saying, Well, you know what? I want to play high school, and not when they're 18 years old and kind of at the end of their club journey. How about when they're 13, 14 years old? You know, and and and I think one of the things that as we've talked to different, and again, if we're looking back over the season, as we've talked to these different organizations in some of the non-traditional markets, the high school leagues, I think of Idaho, for instance, eastern Idaho, the high school leagues are part of the club and they're working together with the clubs to um to talk about, hey, here are your paths. And, you know, I know we've tried to do that. Um, Mike Richards, shout out to Mike Richards, director of hockey at the St. Louis Rockets. He brought guys like John Madeley, uh, you know, Rich Meek, myself, in to talk to rising banners and talk about high school hockey. I don't know if that goes on at Kirkwood or at St. Peter's or at Chesterfield, um, but I think it should. And I think we have to talk about like mid-states should be empowering our clubs and giving them the resources and giving them data to say, this is why you need to talk to these kids. This is why these kids need to play high school hockey. And then what's eventually gonna happen is the more talent that it likes to play high school hockey, you're gonna find kids that are still gonna be able to go play hockey after high school.

SPEAKER_01 47:10

Sure.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

And I'll tell you what, junior teams, whether they're in all teams, NCDC teams, NA3 teams, they're gonna find those players, whether they're playing for a Central States team or a AAA team or the NDL. And again, I've got a kid that plays on those teams, you've got kids that plays on those team, I play on those teams. I think that there isn't that it's a great path. I just feel like there's this huge opportunity now because a segment of kids are being told they can't play high school. A segment of kids are not gonna make this National Development League team, and some of them are gonna elect to say, Well, do I need to go to other cities? It's like, no, stay here, play high school.

SPEAKER_01 47:48

So, do we need to forward this episode to the uh mid-states board?

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Well, there is uh an election coming up on mid-states, um, which I'm not getting involved with. Um, not because I don't, I would not love to.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

It's just I don't have to stay closer to the ice.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Absolutely. But I but I just believe that, like, and part of this too is you know, let's talk about how you raise the level of play at mid-states, you know, obviously educating and helping and keeping your your coaches not in these silos in their schools, but getting them together and saying, how can we, you know, work together? Maybe you have mixed practices with other teams. You know, can they do this in football? The NFL will have these training cap practices where they're they've got two or three different NFL teams together and they're practicing together. That's obviously it's great to be playing against a team with a different colored jersey on, but you also have coaches who are talking and figuring out different things. Why not do something like that at the mid-states level in September and October beyond just a scrimmage? Yeah, you know, um, talking to our officials. You know, we've done a lot this year of focusing on officials. I think it's such an important aspect of our game. We have phenomenal officials, and the pipeline is very strong with young officials coming up. And I think there's an opportunity to have these officials officiate these games more consistently so that coaches at the AAA level aren't afraid of their players getting hurt. So there's there's so many things that a lot of it just comes down to we got to get out of our little tribes and our little silos and talk to each other um and create an opportunity. And again, that's probably gonna be a viral clip, so but I'm passionate about it because I love high school hockey and I love the opportunity to get kids who maybe never have a chance to play with some of these um kids who are a little bit further on their journey playing with those kids, getting an opportunity to get better.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Well said. Well, you know, I mean last minute of play in this period.

SPEAKER_02 49:50

Well, we'll be right back after a quick break as we uh pay a few bills. Don't go away as we wrap up this uh segment and this uh this episode of Too Many Men on the Mike.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

This episode of Too Many Men on the Mic is brought to you by Big Bear Tournaments. Just because the winter weather is coming to an end doesn't mean the hockey stops. So sign up for your team with Big Bear Tournaments for one or more of their spring 2026 events. Starting April 24th through May 15th, join them at their prime spring locations, which include Chicago, Ann Arbor, Detroit, Washington, D.C., and Lake Tahoe. Exact dates and full details can be found at BigBearTournaments.com. As always, tell them, too many men on the mic sent you and receive exclusive savings. That's BigBearTournaments.com.

SPEAKER_02 50:43

And if you're watching us on YouTube, don't forget to click the QR code in the top right hand corner to take you to a listing of all their current tournaments for Big Bear Tournaments.

SPEAKER_01 50:57

Well, uh, I think we put a pen uh uh put a pin in spring hockey.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

And probably mid-states and maybe my uh our listenership after uh you know it it's it's um it like anything in life, there's no there's no hard and fast. It's life is not black and white, hockey's not black and white, youth hockey is certainly not black and white, it is a lot of gray, and I think you know, being able to a foundation to all this is communicating um in a way that is uh respectful. And look, you've got thousands of people in youth hockey here in St. Louis. You're not gonna have thousands of people all think the same thing, and that's a good thing. Um, so hopefully we get an opportunity to to put some ideas out there, spark some conversations. And you know, again, it's just moving that puck from zone to zone, you know, every year getting a little bit better as players, as coaches, as parents, and as an or as organizations. And um, you know, if you're not passionate about it, then then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 52:03

Yeah, and I would just say if you're a listener out there or a parent, you've got questions about spring hockey, and you've listened to the show and something's come to mind, drop us a line. Uh, you can find us on Instagram. Uh, you can find us at uh too many menonthemic.com, and uh we'll be happy to answer any questions that you have and uh and consult with you as you go through the journey. But uh but it's April, and uh before you know it, we're gonna be into May, and then we'll be in summer, and then uh we'll probably be going on our tour again of different youth hockey organizations throughout the country, talking about what worked for them in 2026, what they're looking forward to in 2026, 2027. Uh, I always think of this time of year you got to get your your new USA hockey number uh for for next year. Uh so it's it's just that time of year where everything's turning.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Yeah, you know, you've got uh the end of school, um, which is always, you know, the days are getting longer, which uh for for me fantastic, you know, gets you the opportunity to get up a little earlier in the morning, maybe before work, go get nine holes in and go do some golfing. For you, I know it's getting out and fish. Go go fish if you can. Get outside, get outside. Um, you know, little little fire pits in the backyard. Um, you know, it's it's been an exciting year. Uh, and you know, we talk about USA hockey. Um, you know, and I I think back to our first conversation with Bob Mancini back in July, and uh, you know, the hope of you know USA hockey bringing home gold medals in the men's and the women's and in the paragraph, you know, the sled hockey for the Paralympians. Um man, we did it. It was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

It's been a fantastic year for USA hockey. Let's hope it's gonna be a fantastic year for your Red Wings.

SPEAKER_02 53:59

Well, they just lost in a shootout. For those of you who will be listening to this on Thursday, of course, you'll know that. They were up three to two, they were tied three to three, and they lost four to three in a shootout.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Uh blues are trying to make a run of it. They're down three, one right now, top of the third. But uh, you know, there's still a couple more games that are out there, so never say never.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

One thing that I would I would highly encourage everybody here. Uh, we just got done with the you know, the men's final four for for NCAA basketball, which is one of the flagship events in all of U.S. sports. Um, there's a huge event in in college hockey starting on Thursday with the frozen four. Um, you know, we've got some killer teams and some some players that if you're NHL fans, um, you actually may have some players who join that are playing this week and that are going to join your team uh before the end of the year. And it's happening in a wonderful place called Las Vegas, Nevada. Uh, I'm not encouraging you to go out to Sin City and and watch hockey, but if you can, I would I I absolutely would try to. But we've got North Dakota versus Wisconsin uh this Thursday, April 9th, same day that we are dropping our uh our our you know, this is the show will be dropped. I know what I'm doing Thursday night. And then uh shortly after that game, uh Michigan versus Denver, DU and Michigan, the the two uh two winningest that's a good matchup college programs. I think both of them have nine national championships, so 18 national championships between them. Um, but there are players on all of these teams who are going to be showing up in NHL sweaters uh as early as next week.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Oh man, Thursday night's looking really good.

SPEAKER_02 55:40

Absolutely. And you think about you know Thursday night, and then the the championship game will be Saturday. Um college hockey is I mean it's like mid-states. It's like mid-states, it's it's like high school hockey. It's like you're playing in front of crowds and your school, and it's just an amazing experience. Um, you think a kid like Schnuggerun playing at Minnesota, you know, Matthew Nye is up in up in Toronto, Kale McCarr playing. I mean, I know he's played for the Avalanche tonight, but for you know, for UMass, uh, you know, just the growth of college hockey uh over the past 10 years and the high-level players that are coming to the NHL from college hockey. Um, and crazy, they they only play like 36 regular season games and they only play twice a week, Fridays and Saturdays.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

There's something to be said for that.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Something to be said about that. And I think you know that's a great point for parents and players and coaches. If some of our greatest hockey players um playing collegiate hockey are only playing games twice a week, why do you gotta play 80 games? Why do you gotta play 60, 50, 70? I mean, it it's there's there's something to be learned. Um, I think you may even make the argument that hockey will actually be there longer if you play a little bit less.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Again, that's a hot take. Deep thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Deep thoughts. Well, um, you know, coach, we're we're we've got uh USA hockey coming on here in the next couple weeks. I think we're gonna try and get some mid-states players who are graduating and talk about their journey. You know, what else is going on in the uh in the acry world here?

SPEAKER_01 57:23

You know what? Just down the stretch, it's gonna be a little watching a lot of NHL hockey and uh just enjoying the spring. Hockey is a real long season coming out of fall and winter. So just trying to enjoy uh uh foot off the gas a little bit. Uh longer days, good weather, but uh uh there's never a shortage of topics. So I look forward to digging into it in the future. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being a subscriber. If you are a subscriber, if you're not, go ahead and click that subscribe button. Uh, you can always find great content for us at too many menonhe.com. Check out our Instagram feed. We put stuff out there just about every day. And uh as always, thanks for supporting youth hockey.